Thank you very much. So this is a teaching coming from different traditions that is quite similar. It's basically about different types of compassion. So, one, there's a teaching that there's three types of compassion. And they can be defined in terms of objects. So the first type of compassion has living beings as its objects. Living beings as such. Living beings per se. In other words, compassion looks at living beings as though they were just like intrinsically the way they appear as objects, that that's the way they are. And wishing them to be free of suffering

[02:02]

and committing one's life to freeing them from suffering. Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them. So seeing sentient beings per se as the objects of compassion. The second type of compassion is to observe sentient beings in the light of the teaching. To observe suffering in the light of the teaching. And the third type, the object of the third type doesn't exist. The third type doesn't have objects. It's compassion without an object, like I was speaking of yesterday. It's intimacy. So the first one, just like the customary way of seeing beings

[03:09]

and feel compassion for them and be devoted to their liberation. Second type is to contemplate sentient beings and their suffering in the light of the Dharma. And the third, it's objectless compassion. It's just intimacy with suffering. The first type is also called sometimes sentimental compassion. And sentimental in the sense of it's customary. It's the kind of compassion we would normally think of compassion. Which is, this is compassion. That's suffering. I'm compassionate. I feel compassion for that person. This way of approaching compassion. And it is part of the great compassion, which is the third type. It's part of it. But it has drawbacks.

[04:11]

The second type is that you realize that the compassion that we feel is in the realm of our delusion. That we are deluded beings who feel compassion for other suffering beings. And that our ideas of compassion are illusions of compassion. And the suffering that we're contemplating is illusory. And the beings that we're contemplating are illusory. We still have this wish to practice this illusory compassion with these illusory beings and this illusory suffering. We realize that the beings we want to practice compassion towards

[05:23]

have no inherent existence. And we don't either. And the compassion doesn't. And the suffering doesn't. And we still wish to devote our lives to practice this ungraspable compassion to ungraspable beings who have ungraspable suffering. The first type of compassion has the drawback that if we practice compassion this way, we will get drained in our compassionate practice. Every time we meet someone, if we care for them and we apprehend them in the way they appear to us,

[06:26]

it drains us. I helped you. That drains me. I practiced patience and generosity. And I was careful and kind to you. And that was me. And that was you. And this was the compassion. That way of relating, of grasping things that way, it is compassion. It is compassion. But it is draining. And if we do it a little bit now and then, like, I don't know, ten times a day, you can survive probably. If you do it 200 times a day, you're going to want to retire quite soon. Because every interaction,

[07:27]

you're apprehending things that are... you're apprehending illusions. And that drains us. The second type of compassion frees us from the first type of compassion. It doesn't get rid of it. It just liberates us from the problems of the first type and enables us to continue the work of compassion without falling into, I was compassionate to you, I helped you, or, you know, you helped me. So the second type frees us from the problems of the first type. But the second type, although it's an amazing thing because it's being devoted to beings that you don't actually believe exist, ultimately. You're devoted to beings which you understand are...

[08:29]

What is it? What's the word? Only exist conventionally. But you're still devoted to them. However, the second type has the problem of getting stuck in the non-existence of the other beings. The third type isn't even... It's just intimacy. And it frees us from the problems of the second type. The second type loses some of its energy because there's still some sense of separation and there's some adherence to the illusory nature of phenomena. So the first type is adhering to the substantial appearance of phenomena. Like Judy was saying yesterday, the self gets smaller, I think she said, maybe? Did you say smaller? Lesser.

[09:32]

Yeah. It becomes less substantial. Normally, people appear to be substantial. Suffering appears to be substantial. The helper appears to be substantial. And that drains us if we apprehend that as real, that appearance of substantiality. The second type of compassion is where we examine the first type and realize that it's illusory and it's insubstantial. The third type freezes from... The second type freezes from abiding in substantiality. So we're free of abiding in substantiality by the second type. We're free of abiding in

[10:35]

insubstantiality by the third type. So those are three types of compassion. The third type of compassion embraces the other two and liberates the other two. The first one is necessary, we must do it, because the great compassion embraces the first type. So the first type is part of our work. The second type is to call the first type into question, to examine it, to question it, to probe it, to observe it, and to notice its drawbacks. Now, I want to talk about something else, but if you're not ready to move on from this, I mean, I think you might have a lot of questions about this, but I kind of wanted to introduce something else alongside of it. Is that okay?

[11:37]

Yeah, yeah. So, Buddhahood is concerned, is involved in protecting beings who are living in prison and liberating them. And Buddhahood realizes that the prison is not a prison. Buddhahood bears on karmic consciousness, which is a prison. Buddhahood bears on the thinking consciousness and realizes that the prison is not a prison. By becoming intimate with the prison, we realize that the prison of our karmic consciousness is not a prison. By becoming intimate with our thinking,

[12:41]

we realize that our thinking is not thinking. And we become liberated from the prison and we become liberated with our thinking without getting rid of the prison or getting rid of our thinking. We live in the prison, as we say, with gift-bestowing hands. We live in the prison, joyfully, and in friendship with all the beings who are in prison with us. The bodhisattvas are not outside a prison. They dive into prison and they teach beings how wonderful prison life can be. Bodhisattvas dive into the weeds of thinking and they teach beings the joy of practicing thinking together and becoming free of thinking. By our practicing together, they don't do it by themselves. And compassion is the way we become intimate

[13:45]

with the prison, with our thinking. And last night, Linda brought up something about study the self and forget the self. And so I wanted to also say a little bit more about that. Again, study the self means, again, to observe the self, question the self, experiment with the self, explore the self. That's studying the self. And as that practice develops and matures, and also the studying the self has to be done in conversation with other beings. We can't go very deep into the study of the self without being in conversation with others. But by the deep conversation in this enclosure of consciousness,

[14:46]

where there's a self, we become free of all the, yeah, all the confinement and distortion of our thinking. So it says, study the self and forget the self. So what does forget the self mean? So in the case of the self in the consciousness, I mentioned that the self comes with these afflictions. So if we practice compassion with those afflictions, they are not afflictions anymore. And the self is forgotten. But what does it mean it's forgotten? It isn't eliminated. It's just not the center. We're just not afflicted with it being at the center anymore. It's still there, but it's no longer an affliction.

[15:47]

It's just a serviceable function of the mind. In that sense, it's forgotten. We're no longer clinging to it. We're no longer attached to it. We're no longer afraid for it. It still can appear and disappear with consciousness, but the afflictions drop away. So those are some things I wanted to put out for discussion this morning. Three types of compassion. Forgetting the self. And also, there's another Zen teacher named Sawaki Roshi. His teaching for Zen practice was settle the self on the self. Settle the self on the self.

[16:51]

Settle those afflictions onto those afflictions. And in settling the self on the self, forget the self. Not get rid of it, forget it. Or not forget it like you should forget it. It is forgotten. Settling with the self is to be intimate with the self. And again, some people might think they've settled the self on the self, but they need other people to come up and say, is your self settled on your self? So that's like a... I don't know how many times Zen teachers have asked their students, is your self settled on your self? Have you settled on your self? And the student thought that they had settled their self on the self. And then the teacher asked them, and then they realized that they hadn't. Or the student comes to the teacher and says,

[17:52]

the self is settled on the self and the self is forgotten. And the teacher says, oh really? Congratulations. And they realize, no. There's still a little unsettledness. There's still a little lack of intimacy. So this meeting, this between us is necessary for us to settle into prison, into consciousness, into thinking, into the self. And this settling into the self and forgetting the self also can be called Buddhahood. That protects beings. That liberates beings. And the way it's done, the way we intimately settle the self into the self is by meeting each other face to face. This process of settling

[18:54]

and dropping away is giving our face to other beings and receiving theirs. Which is part of the reason why some people are very happy to be here today because we can actually give our faces to each other. Like I've been seeing some of your faces for quite a while, for the last year or so, but now I'm actually seeing your face in another way. It's ... yeah. It's amazing, the difference. And it's so subtle. So that's what I offer you

[19:59]

for discussion this morning, all that. Homa. Can everybody, by the way, can you hear me well this morning? Pardon? Yes. Thank you. Homa. Yes, thank you. I would like to first appreciate your clear expressions for discussions, for teachings, and also really appreciate when you speak slowly, like today, it's easier to understand. Or sometimes when you speak too fast, it's like I want to listen, and then when it's too fast I cannot ...

[21:01]

So I really appreciate that. So it became clear for me that at least I can speak for myself. The reason that I need those faces is because I'm operating on the first level of compassion. So in the first level of compassion there's this I exist and there's this me exist and I be compassionate or others be compassionate. So as long as I'm operating in that first level of compassion, all of these things rises in me, which is ... which also I'm starting to understand the second and third level and it makes me inspired to bring it all together. And thank you for what you said

[22:15]

and you said what I said in a slightly different way which is helpful. I just thought of another part of it is I'm helping you and please come back so I can help you some more. I'm helping you and don't come back so I can help you more. All that kind of stuff happens and that's part of the deal, to deal with that. I saw two people Marlena and Jessica. So I took my vows

[23:16]

six years ago and this year I hear the call and I say okay, it's time to go to Bodhisattva path and jump as you say and then I went into the I am doing an April Buddhist Chaplaincy program at Garuda City we built from that. So I I have been in this process because the chaplaincy requires precisely being in the self-compassion and the great compassion and it has been a process also because to be compassionate with others and to be able to breathe and hold a space in the chaplaincy for the others I have to get to know myself first and go through all this process of my own traumas and my own personal issues to get into more

[24:18]

able, it's like open the space inside myself and being compassionate about myself and my future and being at the same time knowing that I have suffered but the suffering is going to the second part but I experienced the first compassion with your chaplain who is like people, social workers people working in non-for-profit being with people that suffer and taking that energy you have to be already prepared you have to have this compassion for yourself, for them because otherwise you get drained as you say and I can feel it that with all the suffering in the world, with the little children with the border, with the African-American suffering all the social injustices of racism in organizations and everyday life and everything that is going on with the planet and the earth suffering

[25:20]

the earth is crying and screaming and hello, I am here and raining and storms it's coming for help, it's the same so now you cannot be moved by all this so you get to this first level and you feel like wow this is really not only draining, it's very emboldening and thanks to your conversation because you had talked about this and I didn't understand the first time about what is sentimental compassion so what is this to do so thank you very much because you helped me to go to the second part to the second compassion I am talking about my process and that is where my question to you comes to avoid people it's like what is going on with the nurses too when you get stuck in this kind of sentimental compassion is when you really quit I think people quit not for profit because they get so drowned

[26:21]

but I know that I am giving a good quality all the nurses right now they are feeding the hospitals because you get there, so I got it that my Buddhist practice and your teaching open the window and say aha so that is what it means also that I know I suffer I suffer and I suffer and I don't know and I start looking into this kind of what is the conventional truth and the truth and it's a little bit dangerous there too because you can become nihilist nihilist, nihilist nihilist, nihilist so that is the danger and I felt it there and I am trying to walk but I felt stuck right back in this other part and it became I understand when you say freedom, wow when you can be suffering and you are suffering but it's not stuck and you are not like

[27:22]

looking for drowning wow, it's really freedom because it's just suffering anyway, we are here we are in the conventional world also, and my question to you is because I still have questions about how you serve, because that's where I end up in the Bodhisattva path, I want to serve the populations that have suffered and it's a lot of issues with racism and social justice so how do I get my Buddhist practice in Buddhism practice is the place for this? No, I am not talking about activism per se, I am talking more about being just with this and how, so I feel a little bit like stuck in this part of my process right now stuck [...]

[28:22]

so do you feel some stuckness in the process? between my Buddhist practice and this freedom I experienced of the suffering and the being into the compassion path of the Bodhisattva and the questions are about how to go about in social injustice the organization of racism the way the race power is organized and once you get into this path it's like an hour has also come and you see it all the time, it's like you see things that you didn't see before it's like veils come out and you became and again this is what I think you say, oh this is the way it is

[29:28]

or ok, how do I get skillful, where do I get the skill to go into this compassion that's why I don't find my practice in Buddhist teachings with the social injustice or the things that I really care about when you said, when you asked the question how do I get the skills I saw some heads nodding with the question how do I get the skills how do I become skillful how do I become skillful how do I become skillful so you're looking at the ocean of suffering

[30:31]

and the question arises how do I become skillful yeah are you there with those questions yeah are you settled with those questions are you settled with those questions yeah yeah, I feel I feel very good about your questions and I wonder now let's settle with those questions

[31:32]

let's observe those questions let's experiment with those questions but that's not the same as getting an answer to the questions you could you could use answers to the questions as experiments but not to get anything if you try to get something you're going to be stuck in the first type of compassion so this question arises and I think many people appreciate that question how do we become skillful how do we practice compassion with this ocean of suffering and now let's that's something to contemplate that question contemplate, observe that question observe that question, settle into that question

[32:37]

do you want to settle into that question do you want to live with that question yeah, I do too let's do it yeah, let's do that and will that bring the skills will this observation bring the skills let's see, if it doesn't let's see if it doesn't, does that mean it never will let's see, let's do it let's do this, let's contemplate these questions let's make them something we remember that we recollect throughout the day in a way that we feel confidence and enthusiasm about remembering so I'm enthusiastic about remembering your questions

[33:45]

and observing them and experimenting with them and exploring them that's the path I would like to join you on okay Jessica could Jessica use the microphone Rev, could we use the microphone do you want to do it we could have a relay race I just want to tell you a funny thing a funny story I'm going to tell you a story sometimes when we do formal ceremonies

[34:46]

we carry a stick have you seen that we carry this stick and I had one one time and I was having a meeting with somebody and she says, what is that baton for because in Japanese we call it a kotsu but it's also a stick and it's been called other things like teaching staff anyway she called it a baton I hadn't heard it called a baton before and I thought, oh baton is kind of an interesting word because a baton is used to lead an orchestration of something but it's also used like in a relay race you pass the baton and I thought that stick is both those meanings it's used to orchestrate to lead some symphony but it's also something that you pass on

[35:48]

to the next person so anyway, now you have the baton and I think police use them too, right to beat people up police use them too, do they hit people with them? they do and they direct you yeah, thank you that's important, thank you and the majorettes spin the batons yeah, so baton is a nice word so now you have the baton I do so I have a question about protection and for people who have already died does great compassion protect them?

[36:49]

does it what? does it protect the people who have already died? yes and so what's great compassion with say that again I'm just taking the time we're going to end at about 10 o'clock, right so can you be intimate with a person who has died yes yeah and how do you do that? how do you practice intimacy with someone who has died? to me it's easier because it feels like they are here they're not out there anymore so it feels almost like there's no choice because they're just

[37:54]

almost a part of you now and the compassion is there all the time the love is there all the time I see how it helps me but I don't see how it helps that person you don't see it that's right and also you think you see how it helps you you think you see how it helps you but I would suggest to you you cannot see how it helps you you do see how it helps you but that's not the full extent of how it helps you I would say to you and you can't see how it helps him but the way you actually help him nobody can see even the 10,000 sages don't know so this is why someone might say

[38:58]

this is a spiritual teaching so this practice we're doing even the 10,000 sages don't know this intimacy we do sometimes say I see how it happens that's fine that you see how it's happening that's fine but the way it's really happening is beyond your perception of how it's happening and if you have a perception then that's fine but that perception doesn't reach it however if you don't have a perception not having a perception doesn't reach it either and part of you wants to have a perception of it okay that's perfectly... we're kind of addicted to perception it's part of our thing here

[39:59]

perceptions in our common consciousness our mind makes, for example another human being into something we can perceive but that's not all they are they're not separate from that but that doesn't comprehend them so when you were first saying that I was imagining you being intimate with this person who has died and I remembered a Zen story about a Zen monk in China every morning he got up and he said Master and then he would say Yes are you awake? Yes all day long don't let anything fool you and I thought that would be something that one could do with a person who has died

[41:01]

every morning say say his name and answer are you awake? Answer and all day long don't be fooled by all that's going on, by all these perceptions just stay with the intimacy with him every morning check in with him invite him to meet you and then all day long don't let anything distract you from that intimacy of course it might happen that you get distracted but that's your intention not to be distracted from this intimacy and how that intimacy helps you I can't see and you can't see the 10,000 sages can't see how that intimacy helps you but that is the teaching you know Jessica, yes

[42:05]

are you awake? Yes all day long don't let anything fool you I won't, I mean I'll try not to how does that help you? Oh I see or I don't see, but it does that's the teaching, that's the practice that's being offered, how does it work? I don't know, but that person did that practice and that's been transmitted to us I also wonder what is he protected from? well it's more like what to be protected with too like again, birth and death somebody's dying the protection is to be practice loving kindness in the death, towards the sickness we have sickness, the protection is loving kindness and compassion, that's the protection

[43:06]

intimacy is the protection if something if some pain's out there it harms us if it's not out there, it doesn't harm us that's the teaching the ancient teacher says who can take the bell strings off the tiger's neck? I guess maybe with cats sometimes they put bells on them to protect the birds, right? but they can also put bell strings on tiger's necks when they're little a lot of people would dare to put tiger bells on a tiger cub, right? who can take the bell strings off the tiger's neck? the one who put them on can take it off

[44:09]

in other words if you can be intimate if you're intimate with the tiger you can take the bells off the tiger's neck so intimacy is the way to help people who are sick, people who are dying and people who have died how it works is demonstrated by doing the practice how to verify that that is by doing the practice and then you do the practice and you feel verification, but how did that work? you feel courage and enthusiasm to go on in the midst of this suffering you feel joy to help other people who are suffering how did that work? well it worked because you did the practice and when you first started in the practice you kind of were somewhat confused and inconsistent and didn't really

[45:13]

put your whole heart into it, and then you did and then you feel like I want to keep doing this so if you do this practice with a deceased person that's how it works you can see the practice you're doing but the way it works is not anything other than what you're doing like is it Sean? Miles? Miles, yes are you awake? Yes all day long, don't let anything fool you I won't do that practice that's how it helps him that's how it helps you and you might not be able to see how it helps you

[46:15]

some days, but you can see how it helps him but again, what you see is not is not how it is it's just something you see it's a it's a lovely perception that's what I would say about and I can do that with Suzuki Roshi I can do that with my father and my mother I can do that with my grandson so I do that and I water his tree I go and water my grandson's tree how does that protect him? that's how it protects him me watering that redwood tree that's protecting him that's the way I do it here's another story

[47:25]

somebody said to me a person said to me you don't know how you help people and I thought I'm right but then he told me how I help people and I thought he told me a story how I help people and I didn't know about that story but then he told me one so he told me I didn't know but then he thought he knew and so he told me he and his fiance were going to get married they went to a jeweler to buy a ring and they found something they liked and they felt kind of uncomfortable with the price the person wanted for it and they were kind of like I don't know what they were doing having kind of an uncomfortable conversation and his wife, his future wife

[48:29]

said they noticed that among his jewels he had some Buddhist statues and she said, oh, are you a Buddhist? and he said, yeah and they said, oh, where do you practice? and he told them, who's your teacher? and he said, Rev. Anderson's my teacher and they said, oh, he's your teacher? oh, he's going to do our wedding ceremony and then the guy gave them a much better price and started acting very nice to them and everything was very harmonious so he told me, see, you didn't know that's how you help people that's just a story that's just a story I don't know how I help people we don't know how we're helping people the way we help people is how we're relating to them now

[49:32]

that's how we help them that's how they're protected it's not something else but the problem is we can't see it then sometimes we hear stories oh, that's nice do the practice of being intimate with your boy do that practice that's how he's protected by what you're doing your life is how he's protected your life is how he's liberated but it's your life of service it's your life of devotion to him it's not your life if you're not protecting yourself and taking care of yourself that doesn't protect him but if you do this practice for him that protects you and you can see that and that protects him but don't look for anything beyond what you're doing

[50:32]

just do what you're doing wholeheartedly for him all day long take care of your other boys and your husband for him that protects him and protects you and how does it protect you? how does it protect you? it protects you by you doing that you doing that is the protection is the liberation but it's very subtle, you know you do that and then something else happens rather than the practice is the realization the practice is the awakening rather than the practice and then the awakening or I think of him and wish him well and pray for his peace and freedom and then his peace and freedom is something other than that

[51:33]

no, it can't be it mustn't be but you can start with that, I do this and that that's the sentimental way I'm talking about the intimate way that what you're doing, your life you're living is his protection is his liberation thank you you're welcome passing the baton where? did you have a hand raised, Marie? I'm thinking about based on your conversation with Jessica well, I'm thinking about faith and I haven't heard you really talk about that

[52:34]

since we've been here faith? correct and kind of so what you're saying is just the act of doing these things that's it just the action because we can't really know what's going to happen but if our intention is to could I say something just at that point? just before you said because we can't really know well, that's kind of like that's true but before you said that is where the faith is with faith there's not a because but there is a because

[53:35]

which helps you go back before the because and do the thing wholeheartedly and they say well I do it wholeheartedly because I can't know it's true that you can't know but in doing the action, the practice wholeheartedly that is some realization people have a hard time doing the thing wholeheartedly right? but when you have realization you can do it wholeheartedly so it's faith when you actually can do the practice fully but that's also realization so it's faith and realization and also there's a because you know sort of after or before just doing it as the realization

[54:37]

and then doing it as realization is a statement of faith so good morning Marie or not even good morning Marie, yes that could be a statement of faith nobody knows what's going on there what are you doing when you say Marie, yes what's happening there even the 10,000 sages don't know but before we ask the question you're just sitting you're just calling your name and when you do it wholeheartedly that is faith, that is practice that is realization and also by the way nobody knows what that is none of the Zen ancestors know what that is but they practiced it and they realized it and they practiced it that was their faith

[55:37]

so Dogen said, and again Dogen when he was dying he said concerning the Buddha Dharma there's 10 million things I do not yet have clarified but I have the joy of right faith which is we do the practice and this intimate doing the practice is the realization so that is our faith and by the way nobody knows what that is including Dogen good, thank you welcome also when I was talking to Jessica that was a statement of faith from me that was my faith so I live in the conventional world and I'm a person who has a habit of wanting to be supported you want to be supported?

[56:39]

I want to be supported thank you for supporting me I was touched when you were talking with Marlena because I realized that especially with, I had not heard your differentiation of the three compassions this morning I like doing the first one and part of why I like doing this is because I get people going oh that's good, thank you and I sometimes do the second one I'm not sure if I've ever done the third but when I do the second I'm pretty sure I don't get any support that the people who are not of this ilk or have not heard this teaching and I don't know if that keeps me away from doing the second one and just staying in the first you don't know of what? if that lack of support that's where you need to find some people to have conversations with

[57:41]

people who want to have conversations with you who want to observe and question but not everybody is ready for the second type they're into the first type of doing it and enjoying it and maybe not yet noticing the drawbacks but people who have burnout they may be willing to talk to you people who are like you, who are doing this practice and getting thanks and feeling good about it but also you're doing the practice, you're feeling good you're doing the practice, you're feeling better feeling better and better and then you explode so that kind of practice when you're doing the second type you're not really feeling better or worse you're observing feeling better and worse

[58:46]

which is what the first type has the first type has these outflows, these drains drains are also called floods so it drains out and it drains it floods in and it floods out the technical Buddhist term is Asrava which means outflow but it also inflows you gain and lose, you're practicing compassion but you gain and lose yeah, we helped this person today you're getting shoved around and a little bit of that is still enjoyable because it's good work and you do get some gains but if you do it a lot you start to notice that the way you're doing it is pushing you around and jacking you up and draining you so with people who are doing the practice with you who have noticed that those people are willing to talk to you and have conversations and support you to do this, the first kind is hard

[59:47]

it's good, the second kind is hard in another way but it's good, and the third type you said you don't know about the third type the third type you're already doing you just haven't discovered yet okay, I'll try to discover and the way you discover it is by doing what you're already doing and then questioning what you're already doing but you need some friends to question and you do question with these groups sometimes, right? you haven't been questioning too much during this retreat but in past retreats you asked lots of questions thank you so much the questioning, this is a group where you can question because these people are not self-righteous about their compassion that's another word, self-righteous compassion there's another word for it I'm being compassionate to you I know what compassion is and I'm laying it on you or I can say who in this room is

[60:50]

that's again sentimental compassion but also self-righteous so if we need to question our self-righteousness about compassion we need to invite other people to question it and so we need friends to converse to get us into the second and then to converse about that so we discover the third which is already here, it's already here it's unconstructed, the third is unconstructed you can't see it but you can discover it, even though you can't see it you can discover something you can't see and I upset some people by using Christopher Columbus as an example of an explorer without noticing that he was also a very cruel administrator in the lands that

[61:51]

I guess on the island of Hispaniola he became the governor there and he tortured the indigenous people he did horrible things but he's a good example of an explorer that he was looking for something and he discovered something and didn't know what it was but he was an explorer and he did make discoveries and he discovered a new world and he thought it was an old world and he was self-righteous about it until the end of his life he held on to that and nobody could help him thank you Paul for your questioning about those three types of compassion

[62:56]

yes so I was thinking that another way to think about them is the way I've always thought about the heart sutra form emptiness, form emptiness and talking about those three yeah so I didn't think there was a need for three but it's okay that you gave us three you know it's just like sort of like a donkey cart horse cart, a goat cart but I wanted to say that form emptiness, form emptiness seem like first compassion second compassion and what I always got from the heart sutra was that form is emptiness is form is emptiness is form is emptiness and when that is actually happening

[63:59]

then you're in what you call the third compassion yeah so I wanted to check this with you but while I was thinking of checking it with you I noticed that at the same time as sincerely wanting to just have that conversation about these ways of talking about compassion I was also afflicted by wanting you as a substantial person and as many people as possible in this room to love me and admire me for saying that and that seems like a kind of affliction and I was going to ask you for a little help on it and then I already jumped to an imagination of what you might say

[65:00]

laughing [...] which is just this simple helpful hint which is open up in compassion let your chest flow out and embrace your grasping of and your needing of people's yeah cover the whole land and part of the land is that that's part of the land that's it? laughing that's it, that's you I wouldn't say that's it say that again please it goes on, it just keeps flowing that's not it

[66:02]

in other words, even the 10,000 sages don't know it even though it would flow out of your breast and cover that wish for appreciation it goes there, yes and then stop before you say that's it but that would be what I would say, you're right and including that we don't have to get rid of that that wish doesn't need to be gotten rid of it needs to be embraced from here did it get it? did it flow out for that? that's what I would say but did it happen? even my 1 or 7 or 8 little sages don't know yet laughing

[67:03]

yeah, so that would be the teaching and she's not sure if it happened and also in the original story this is the story of Yanto and Shreifong they were Dharma brothers but Yanto was also Shreifong's teacher who said just let it flow out and cover the earth it doesn't say that Shreifong that it did flow out of him it just said he woke up and then from then on we get to watch how it flowed for the rest of his life but he woke up to that's where it's at and so now let's watch it and we're watching something which the 10,000 sages don't know but we're watching it, do you understand? we're watching it flow from our breaths and we can't see it I don't know who's next

[68:14]

how many hands are there? I guess there are 4 people they're all closely related it's kind of a neighborhood thing just wanted to say Linda how much I admire and love you I wasn't trying to get you to say that that's the key factor I wish for it but I'm not trying to get it we know that we naturally as social animals we want people to appreciate it's built into our nervous system into our cells that's okay I mean that's like unavoidable but we don't have to like attach to that

[69:17]

and try to get it but it's naturally that we wish for it but we can just say, okay, there's the wish and then not act it out I want to speak to what Marlene brought up I worry about spiritual bypass for myself whatever that is can I say something right there? it's fine to worry but you can also, without worrying just observe, just keep vigilant about spiritual bypass the worry is optional the observation is essential watching out for spiritual bypass is essential but worrying is optional it doesn't really help you observe to worry

[70:18]

just keep your eyes off it tires you a little bit to worry so just watch out for it it could be happening anytime, anyplace that we could be circumventing suffering by some spiritual technique I think some people are wondering you don't recognize the term? I don't know what it is either but I'll tell you what I'm worried about actually, I think the person who gets credit for that term is the former John Wellwood he came up with the term spiritual bypass which is to use, like to use meditation to avoid pain like some people practice concentration as a way to avoid pain or somebody else, like this autistic person I heard him say that when he was being teased on the playground which was like overwhelmingly painful for him

[71:19]

because he couldn't cope with the neurological storm that was going on he would just start squaring numbers and then by this technique he would like go to this island of peace in the middle of that storm to get away from the pain the problem is he said how to get back from the island so the problem with spiritual bypass is it takes you away from the suffering and then it's harder to get back so it's good to watch out for am I trying to get away from the pain so there's various techniques and concentration is one of the main ones that will sort of like not really protect you from the pain but bypass it whereas loving kindness like meets it compassion meets it, doesn't go around it and again, when we first start practicing compassion

[72:22]

we might do a kind of spiritual bypass which seems like we're meeting it but really we're skirting around it that's why we need other people to say you're not really facing it, I don't think are you really facing it? so let's watch out for that spiritual bypass and help other people some people tell us what they're doing I think you're spiritual bypassing I think you're circumventing the pain so watch for it in yourself and if you notice in yourself you'll be able to help others with that too so let's be vigilant and careful about the possibility of slipping into circumventing suffering thank you, I think more accurately I don't think I'm worried about it I do think I'm conscious of it and for me it would look like being so into Buddhism and everything is just the way it is

[73:26]

so I'm just loving the world the way it is that it doesn't take me into the streets it doesn't have me read the papers and say what can I do, what should I do so that's the story in my head but the thing I wanted to say is that and I was thinking about the word faith before we even brought it up today that I do have a faith that this practice that my practice is trustworthy in a certain way and that whatever my guilt is or my fear of not doing enough that's what the real fear is okay, I'm willing to be this uncomfortable I'm willing to let in this much pain did you say fear of not doing enough? okay, so there's a good one don't circumvent the fear of not doing enough the fear of not doing enough

[74:27]

is present in a lot of consciousnesses but what some people try to do in response to the fear of not doing enough is they try to do more to get rid of the fear that make sense? which is acting out it's acting out avoiding doing your job so when you're afraid of not doing enough don't do more so that you won't be afraid of not doing enough embrace the fear of not doing enough and that's doing something yes, that's wonderful and I feel like what you're saying to Jessica I feel is a little bit applicable for me here is that just revisit, revisit okay, right now, okay, how is it right now so the questioning and not having a bad you or good you is helpful for me

[75:27]

and then my final thing I wanted to say is that I feel like practice and study has increased my capacity to be with pain to be helpful with suffering people and specifically I've spent time working in prison where there's phenomenal amount of suffering right here and it's just at the edge of what I can bear and be present to and to the extent that I can and am I understand what this practice provides yeah, so that helps you do you say increases your capacity? yeah the etymology of the word for the Sanskrit word for patience which is kshanti which sounds like shanti

[76:28]

shanti is peace, right? kshanti, the root of it means capacity so patience is the capacity for suffering and by practicing it, it increases we can increase it you can increase it by sitting still for a while and dealing with what comes up there you can increase it by visiting prisons you can increase it by reading about the history of the caste system and racism in America to hear, listen to these painful stories to taste these these are ways to massage and open your capacity as part of the work is patience increasing capacity and also increasing the ability

[77:28]

to be present with it so opening up to the pain through patience and being present with the pain through patience thank you I'm not let's see, I'm not fully sure I'm the one before Susan so I want to check with that mine was a response to Linda okay as usual as usual it just seemed important to me that it was okay with you if I went first or I could give it to you what would you like? oh, I have no preference for once okay thank you

[78:29]

and I'm not sure what I'm going to say here or what my question is if there's a question if there is one, I'm sure and it has to do with what I'm willing to risk in a given moment in my practice and there's many ways you don't know you've helped me and I have a list of reb-isms and I think it's up to about 16 or 17 right now and they're really marvelous for really deep, deep guide points for me and one of them is not to take on a practice that's too advanced for you at any given moment it's fine to be a little afraid but if you're too afraid so I'm wanting to check in with that about why am I actually speaking right now and so I think my voice is just echoing for me I think, I hear I think, I think

[79:33]

so the question is like how do I know I'm being wholehearted and am I willing to risk that because I bet a lot on that farm I have different experiences in my life that I hold as 100% and Rev has gotten up to walk to right now thank you for writing that down and my experiences are one, I wasn't looking for a teacher I was looking for a new creative home I'd been an actor in New York and I just knew I was done and I think that probably was the middle of an audition I went I'm done

[80:37]

and in the middle of an audition and I could see their faces be so confused when I ended because I continued to do my monologue but I was just clearly done with being an actor in New York and I went looking I thought to become a theater director and I was looking at different places and I even got a job as the assistant director for a whole year at the Milwaukee Rep but it wasn't starting for a while and I was 39 and I came to Zen Center because years before a teacher had said to me I needed to find some repose and so that had lived in me, an acting teacher and that day was stunning for me where and I may get back to that but I just knew this was it that this was what I was looking for so I never became a theater director this is the conversation I wanted to be in I knew that that first day and it was Wendy Johnson and the whole day

[81:39]

and then I didn't meet Rev until a few months later and I knew he was the abbot but when the first time I saw him do a Dharma talk he reached out, he wore glasses then you wore glasses then and you reached out and the way you put on your glasses I burst into tears and said that's my teacher and because that for me my whole body has just been listened and listened and listened in every fiber to how you responded to things to how you did things, I just followed it and so I'm speaking now because I don't feel completely that way about you anymore so I wanted to say that and I still, like this weekend I watched, there's so many things, whoa, yeah but it's that, that response, I don't know how to do that that one, ooh and I'm saying, I think it has to be about the middle way

[82:39]

that San Francisco Zen Center did not have the structural support for my practice when I tried to engage when the metaphor yesterday of the stucco at Tassajara the Japanese formula, not sticking that was how I felt about Suzuki Roshi's teaching where it was meeting us now here that it just wasn't quite the formula and I kept speaking and asking for it everywhere and I tried to do so much as a non-resident so many authorings and so many try to play with people and they didn't play back and so I finally went around saying and people loved it and I loved it, I'm getting a divorce and people laughed because I married Zen Center but I didn't ask them and they didn't marry me back no one ever agreed to marry me back

[83:40]

but I was going around like I was married to Zen Center and I'd never been married back and that was great, you came to my house and you understood all that and now with my own trauma work which is my finding the spiritual bypass part which is I didn't even know what was running my life and driving me, the pain and the trauma and the language that now Reb is bringing a lot into the nervous system and all of that has allowed me to start to be very different sensing inside and I didn't find that supported enough at Zen Center and I didn't find collective supported at Zen Center there was a lot of, one of the other great things that I heard in this room which I really appreciated from the mothers here bringing their lives was it was never a good idea, you know, really just not a good idea even when they're tiny to make what's it called

[84:41]

a one side, a unilateral decision human beings do not like unilateral decisions so that was a wow in me and I felt when I tried to do things at Zen Center, not in practice periods but in anything else as a community that there were a lot of unilateral decisions and so I kept thinking the problem was me and I needed to keep adjusting and then whatever I find, I don't know but there was something about permission to look for a form, I don't know, to find it in me and rather than look for it outside and to find structures that model that and there are, so I think I'm finding a hard time to say that because it's like

[85:43]

this is a risk, you know that there's models like what Marlena was saying like I sit with Rev Angel Kiyota Williams five days a week online because it embodies the Zen practice piece for me the trauma piece and the social justice piece and it just embodies it and it's just not there, it's more there from this weekend I can feel, it's more but for me to say that out loud, I want to say it's really scary to say that the forms don't work for me anymore Thank you That feels like my whole hearted truth

[86:44]

Thank you Elizabeth Thank you Elizabeth, just reminding me that the story that you shared Yanto and Shui Feng I don't remember the whole story but part of it was that one of the brothers was a very diligent sitter was very much into the forms and I don't see if it was a subtle complaint or something but the other was maybe sleeping a lot or not showing the forms in the same way and I don't know who said what to the other but I have a feeling

[87:49]

that it was the one who was maybe sleeping that said to the one who was very sitting really diligently in the forms offering the wisdom of just let it flow from your heart so I just wanted to revisit that story in light of what Elizabeth was offering Thank you Could you hear what she was saying? Could you hear? She was talking about the story that Linda brought up about where somebody said what's brought in through the front gate is not the family jewels just let it flow out from your breaths and cover the world The one who

[88:51]

Amanda told more of the story is that in the early part of that story one of them was diligently sitting and the other was like sleeping and the one who was sitting said to the other one you know you shouldn't be lazy and the other one said you shouldn't be so uptight you should take a rest and they kept going back forth like that for a while and in the end was the statement don't you realize that what is brought in through the front gate is not the family jewels the family jewels of course are already in the house just let it flow out she was relating that to the issue of the forms yeah when you think about what is the purpose of the forms yeah what's the purpose of the forms what's the vote for one was kind of attached to them and using them the other was not attached to them and wasn't using them

[89:55]

but he also practiced the forms a lot and their dialogue led to this great awakening using the forms, not using the forms we use the forms and we use them to discover attachment and then let go sometimes we don't know we're attached until we practice the forms and then the forms are now a way we can discover and be compassionate to our attachment to the forms and then they really start working for us when we can have compassion for these forms which we're practicing together including saying in relation to the forms, the forms are not working for me that's part of someone's path is to say the forms are not working for me and then how do we relate to that

[90:56]

and we can say the forms aren't working for us with or without attachment and it feels like the realization of like further in that one dogon fascicle or teaching of here is the way so here the way unfolds and so embracing and opening to here yeah, that's a statement of faith here is the way here the way unfolds and a thought experiment an experiment with that, yeah when you find your place right where you are practice occurs realizing the fundamental point

[91:59]

the way unfolds from here so this is Dogon's statement of faith and his practice he practiced finding his way here and further if it's okay the boundary is not distinct and yet it responds to the inquiring impulse yeah yeah our practice realization yeah, like you make me you know, the boundary is not distinct outside of our relationship and all of our relationships and here is the place

[93:03]

and so Elizabeth said the forms are not working for me that's good, try and turn that I'm not working for the forms and thank you for taking care of the forms during this retreat ringing the bells, thank you she orchestrated our our forms, thank you yeah what attracted me to Zen, I didn't see any forms in what attracted me but then I found out that what attracted me was the fruit of working with forms and you are the fruit of working with forms too

[94:13]

yeah so all of us have been working with these forms and we are the fruit of our work all of us are you may not call yourself a Zen student and if I talk to Zen students if I ask them are you a Buddhist? a lot of them say, I don't want to say yes to that they feel more comfortable saying that they're Zen students they don't necessarily want to say they're religious but these are Zen students I'm talking about talking to, who are not comfortable saying that they're Zen students it's part of our our being that we have a lot going on it's very complex

[95:15]

actually when I was a little bit resistant with the forms when I started I was resistant to the forms not very used to oh I was a little bit I feel a start this is a little bit a strike on myself inside resistance always I noticed that it's one part of my discovery with myself this year, that I'm always resistant that's the first thing I think it's part of my background, my information my life, my childhood, etc always asking questions at school I always got in trouble because of that or commenting going against the grain so what I want to say

[96:23]

is that the forms for me at the beginning I really resist them and I say why do I have to bow to these people why do I have to bow and all this kind of hierarchy that I felt in the sandal it was very uncomfortable why do you have all these hierarchy things that you have to go through and then I start practicing exactly what they're changing me and say there's no preference and something happened and changed because I trust in mine I say well, if I'm going to do this, I have to trust it and I have to go into it and suddenly the resistance banged and I became so happy doing oriyoki and learning all this it's like wow, what a discovery for myself to be just, being a little bit flexible and being open and taking out this resistance that sometimes can tell you

[97:24]

it also weighs you down and I feel that this questioning about the world about what happened and what to do is also sometimes heavy so it's some kind of going to the second the compassion to be free for this it also gives you the strength to go back maybe to the first and gave me some breath and appreciated being all of you and I just want to say that I haven't had the same issues and you have been very courageous because I know other people feeling the same and just saying not here, not saying people here but around the community so thank you, you are being very courageous and we love you, I love you, I mean, sorry talk for all of you and I love in a way everybody but I love you, thank you thank you Red so listening to

[98:38]

what everyone has commented on before me the many years of practice with pretty much everyone in the room and taking in all the information about compassion what comes to my mind is an underlining I don't want to say thing but a feeling that I have do you care too much or too little is what I'm thinking right now when I'm listening to everyone speak thank you you so maybe I'll start with a red story

[99:49]

I actually haven't been very present in sangha for maybe about 10 years about 10 years ago I started exploring a different path and I remember in Dokusan I shared it with Red and I shared that I was hesitant about it because I believed in the path of vertical practice of going deeper and deeper and his response was you know Jude he said Judy, I don't think he said Jude you know Judy, sometimes when you're digging a ditch it's better for the shovel to start going horizontally in order for it to go deeper so

[101:05]

so I've continued to practice strongly mostly in a different form though never Zen has never left me and and I think one of the biggest things that that occurred for me is I really got how I had to love myself in all of the afflictions which seemed pretty strong and somewhat recently I don't know, maybe a year or so I don't know how long I've really there's been an opening that I've started to really get that on the same profound level with other people so coming up here

[102:31]

the thought of coming up here I was excited I was excited about being with a group of people and we all having our own afflictions and so it's been really beautiful everyone coming forward and I really there's many things I appreciate about you, Reb and one of them is that you have been weaving a sangha with open heartedness and so I love to see the manifestation of it

[103:33]

as exhibited this weekend as a drop in the bucket where the ocean might be more poetically said anyway I think that's all I I would like to say, so thank you should I give it to Homa? should I Susan? if I can wrap myself before what? now we acknowledge your jump thank you when Linda first came in and sat down I think she didn't recognize me did you? this is an experiment talking about me and you and I recognized you immediately

[104:33]

from this story that 40 or 50 a lot of years ago in a different lifetime we sat together at San Francisco Zen Center and I am so happy to see you here and strangely appearing and then as you told your story I remember part of my story is at a certain point I thought I was walking away from Zen practice and you but the story has a different idea and even my telling of the story doesn't seem quite right and the odd thing is here we are in this room together I wouldn't have predicted this particular story line I feel like I know you less than ever

[105:37]

and this self it feels like there is a little more spaciousness here and I feel like I don't know how these stories are going to turn out thank you it says take care right on it thank you

[106:53]

I'd like to express my question and my wish like I wished we would even speak in our languages in more of a neutral form like I am a student I'm not a student of Zen I'm not a student of Siddha Yoga I'm not a student of you know any teacher but I am a student so attaching our friendship like my Zen friends or my Siddha Yoga friends or my family friends my Zoroastrian friends I think adding anything to

[107:53]

friendship or adding anything to student it causes separation it brings not intimacy because it creates this and that so my wish is that our language would be more neutral, more simple as possible that reminds me of I think of a newspaper headline when Pope Benedict just became Pope Cardinal Ratzinger, right? the headline was statement from the new Pope this friendship is the door and I thought, just take away the this

[108:57]

and I'm totally with you friendship is the door but he said this and I felt, oh that's too bad it was so nice without the this yes, thank you I just wanted to say before I forget yes please please take care of it and bring it up here I just want to say that do we have a schedule to meet with Fred Sampson? we do at 11 o'clock at the beginning we just want to say hi to Fred so anybody that wants to come at 11

[109:59]

and be included in that greeting to Fred we don't know how it's going to work but we're going to try to do that we have to say hi to this person who most of us met him here and we've been friends with him for 20 or 30 years and I think it would be very supportive of him to do that I think it's red but it seems to be working did you want to talk to us? do you want to turn around and face the other people or do you just want to talk to me? either way, no I want to talk to you but I know everybody now can hear me in this moment I've found myself

[111:03]

not feeling wholehearted I think I've reached a threshold and it was like and so I thought maybe I could take care of myself by leaving but then I thought that's a pretty abrupt spiritual bypass that's it, ok good so it's how to take care of that in a group of people that I care about it's not that I'm unempathetic with anyone's offerings it's just I felt full I'm done thank you did you say that wholeheartedly? I have a bit of regret about that a little regret that you didn't feel wholehearted? the regret makes me feel not wholehearted

[112:04]

in my statement so you regret telling us that or you regret a moment of feeling not wholehearted? I regret having to say that yes, I guess you regret having to say it it's interesting that so we have this practice called confession and you can say regret that's a practice for wholeheartedness so you confessed a lack of wholeheartedness and again so if I confess my lack of practice I don't regret for the lack of practice but I do not feel regret that I confessed it ok

[113:05]

I'm with you on that I feel not regret I feel wholehearted about regretting that I wasn't wholehearted the regret is part of the wholeheartedness do you agree with that? am I talking you into that? but I also don't want you I want the uniqueness of you to also survive but it's interesting that you said regret because I thought maybe you were confessing this lack of wholeheartedness and you had some regret over the lack of wholeheartedness but maybe you don't I think I wish I could expand my ability with wholeheartedness because if I don't

[114:07]

what I do is I catch Barry's eye and roll my eyes or something that's very disrespectful to the whole situation did you say you want to expand your ability to be wholehearted? yes I do too I want that for you and for me and the path of expanding my wholeheartedness is strewn with moments of lack of wholeheartedness and noticing it and feeling some sorrow about lack of wholeheartedness so we become wholehearted by noticing lack of wholeheartedness and feeling that that isn't really the way we want to live we want to be wholehearted in this life but realizing that

[115:09]

involves noticing that we're not sometimes and it also involves remembering that we want that so you remember you want it and you notice sometimes you don't and confessing it and feeling sorrow about it is part of that path of realizing it the word repentance the basic meaning of the word repentance is sorrow sorrow about our lack of wholeheartedness that's the main thing we're repenting lack of intimacy I veered away from the intimacy I'm sorry I want to be so again on our path to intimacy and wholeheartedness most of us will notice quite a few moments

[116:09]

of lack of wholeheartedness and lack of intimacy and then the medicine for that is to acknowledge it and if we feel sorrow to feel the sorrow so thank you for noticing that thing called lack of wholeheartedness and thank you for telling me about it and yeah thank you for listening to it and relating to it too thank you now it's getting to that time when I'm about ready to let you go have breakfast also I just want to mention that this question how do I know that I'm wholehearted that's part of being wholehearted too how do I know that I'm that I'm

[117:10]

that I'm intimate I would say when you are wholehearted you don't need to know that you're wholehearted but it doesn't mean that if you're wholehearted you wouldn't ask the question but when you're wholehearted you don't need to know anymore when you're intimate you don't need to know you're intimate when the microphone doesn't work anymore you give it to Paul and Paul Paul will help it works it's working it works and it doesn't work I don't want to deal with the second part okay so we have we have there's 10 minutes before 10 so would you like to go to breakfast now I'd like to make an announcement

[118:16]

before we leave before lunch or breakfast okay Leon this is an announcement to generous inclinations that might be languishing in our subconscious and I would like to expound on the great joy that I feel as I became intimate with the Don Marks and to acknowledge the importance of supporting these kind of experiences and for you to for your part in these experiences

[119:17]

so I encourage us all to remember the Donna box thank you thank you thank you Leon that was an unprecedented announcement uniquely Leonic when Leon was talking I was thinking well what about Donna White who was on that the show with the wheel of fortune Donna White her name is there was a show called the wheel of fortune and Donna was on it actually her name was actually Vanna White and when the person was speaking she would go like this and she had many every time a great new outfit it's still running

[120:18]

it is Jerry and I watch it sometimes I said to him if we ever go out again this was during the pandemic please never bring up that we watched it because I would be so embarrassed and Carl is so he cannot believe we watched it he finds it insulting but what about Vanna she'll be so pleased to know that you're watching she doesn't change she doesn't look like she changes what is her beauty secret yeah totally smiles wow and I don't know I've never seen it I missed out I can get it on YouTube right before we go to lunch

[121:21]

I would like to publicly thank the people who cooked and served us you'd like to express thanks to the people who have cooked and served yes thank you Barry so you ready for brunch all right brunch it is I think I need some brunch

[121:59]

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