Good evening, everyone. Welcome. This evening, I want to talk about another one of these old cases from Dogen's collection of koans and verses. This is number 16. It's an old story in there. Lots of commentary on it, but it's an important story for us. So I'll read just the story and the verse. Dogen's verse first and then go back. Zen Master Fayan once visited Zen Master Lohan Dizang Guichen. Guichen asked, Elder, where are you going? Fayan said, I'm wandering around on pilgrimage. Guichen asked, what's the point of your pilgrimage? Fayan said, I don't know. Guichang said, not knowing is most intimate by a widely opened up realization.

[01:05]

Dogen wrote a verse about this saying, cavorting freely all is clear, and again he freely cavorts. How can pilgrims be bound by straight or twisting ropes? If we lack great achievement by one square inch, this knowing becomes increasingly small. two or three courts. So there's a lot in this story. I'm just going to touch on it tonight. So this Zen master, the teacher in the story, Luowang Dizong, his name, Dizong, is Chinese for Jizo, so he's actually named after the Bodhisattva, Jizo, who cares for children and women and people in the intermediate realm. But anyway, that was just his name, but a very respected teacher. And Fai Yan is the monk here, and Desang asked him, where are you going?

[02:11]

And Fai Yan said, I'm wandering around in pilgrimage. And later on, Fai Yan became founder of one of the five houses of Chang. So he became a very important figure. But he said, I'm wandering around on pilgrimage. So this sense of pilgrimage is important in the story too. What does it mean to wander around on pilgrimage? Literally in this story, he's one of these monks who's wandering around looking, checking out different teachers, checking himself out with different teachers. And this was a tradition in China, and at times in Japan, and now in America too. So, a number of you have visited various teachers. And, you know, more basically, what is our pilgrimage? So, when he heard that... When Dogen heard that his teacher, Rujing, in China had passed away, he said, oh, now he's ended his pilgrimage.

[03:13]

How sad. So, we all... One way or another, in this generation, I think, have been wandering around in pilgrimage, looking around. What is it? What are we doing here? What's the point of all of this? How do we live in this world, in this difficult world? Anyway, Fayan said, I'm wandering around on pilgrimage. And Dzanghuichen said, oh, what's the point of your pilgrimage? So, we've been studying this, I don't know, for a thousand years. Great Jaya said, not knowing is most intimate. So, this is good to remember. Not knowing is most intimate. Not knowing is deepest. This story has to do with how do we know?

[04:14]

Or, what do we know? Or, what is the nature of knowing? Or of not knowing? So, Dokye Sesshin and Genjokhan, when you're out in the middle of the ocean or in the middle of a great lake and you look around, it's just like a circle, we don't see the details of the shoreline. So there is so much we don't know. Given every experience and of every person in this room now, and all of the people we've all met, and all of the places we've all been, and all of that that is part of who we each are on our seat. It's, you know, how could we possibly know what's happening in this room? Even the biggest hard drive in the world. Anyway, not knowing is most intimate. And when we think we know something, that's sort of, you know, we're... And sometimes we do know things.

[05:23]

I mean, all of you know a lot of things. Each one of you has a wide body of knowledge. And yet, do you really know what you know? How do you know what you know? There's lots of ways of knowing things. So even if you've been to the finest schools, how do we know the ache in our shoulders or the discomfort in our lower back or the question that has come to you this week or this lifetime? There's so much that we don't know. The old teacher said, not knowing is most intimate. Can we just be in not knowing? But it's more complicated than that. So we chanted the harmony of difference and savings.

[06:26]

So there's also a harmony or a relationship of knowing and not knowing that's at work here. The verse in this group of koans that Dogen collected, he said, Dogen said, cavorting freely, all is clear. And again, he freely cavorts, so he's talking about the story. And actually, there's a cavorting freely, tong tong tong in Japanese, toto, in Chinese, dototo in Japanese, is a nickname for an old master of the Northern school who was known for his endless pilgrimages. So, Dogen is using the meaning, cavorting freely, but also this, you know, kind of alludes to this old master who went on many pilgrimages. And one time this cavorting freely master was called before Empress Wu.

[07:30]

It was a great, great, powerful empress. She's gotten a bad rap in history, but maybe that's because China is so patriarchal and they didn't like that there was a woman who was one of the most powerful emperors, rulers in the history of China. Anyway, and she was a great patron of Buddhism, too. But when this fellow cohorting freely was brought before her, he refused to speak. So there's a long tradition in Chan and Zen of not kowtowing to or not respecting the powers that be, the authorities and warlords. Anyway, he refused to speak, but instead he gave her some poems. He gave her 19 poems, and she tried to give him back some gifts and offerings, and he wouldn't accept them. Only one of the poems survives. It's called Clarifying the Source.

[08:33]

And he got his nickname, cavorting freely, from this poem because it ends with the lines, today I entrust all to clarity. No, I'm sorry, excuse me. Today I entrust all to destiny, cavorting freely. I leave all to destiny. I just, you know, it's like saying I trust Zazen. Today I entrust all to destiny, cavorting freely. Tomorrow I cavort freely, entrusting all to destiny. In the mind I clearly know everything. In a while, I have become a dull fool. For a while, I have become a dull fool." So, this is a play on this pilgrim coerced freely, who says he clearly knows everything, as opposed to Feigener said, I don't know, about his pilgrimage. So there's a lot going on in all of these old Chinese verses, there's references and so forth. But anyway, Dogen said, cavorting freely, all is clear. And again, he freely cavorts.

[09:35]

How can pilgrims be bound by straight or twisting ropes? So, you know, maybe things are so difficult in our society that we don't have some idea of how things belong and where things belong and how everything is straight and narrow. So maybe that's not so much a problem anymore. But yeah, I mean, if you look at the official versions of everything, everything is all explained and so forth. But Dougan says, how can pilgrimage be bound by straight or twisting ropes? So our pilgrimage isn't a straight line, But it's not bound by twisting either. If we lack great achievement by one square inch, Dogen says, this knowing becomes increasingly small, two or three quarts.

[10:38]

So, you know, in some ways maybe he's talking, Dogen here is praising fully knowing. If we lack great achievement by one square inch, we should fully realize, but what is this knowing? What is this not knowing? This is a deep problem for us. How do we know what we know? So, even in physics, I think it's Heisenberg principle, they say that if you know where a particle is, if you don't know how fast it's moving, and vice versa. We can't pin things down. The basic Buddhist truth is the ungraspability of everything or anything. Anything we say misses. So we can't rely on... He said not knowing is the most intimate, or not knowing is closest.

[11:44]

And yeah, maybe to realize that we don't know, or to know that we don't know, it's good to know what you don't know. When we think we know something, we can get into a lot of trouble. So, I want to add some other stories or comments about this basic story, about not knowing is most intimate, or not knowing is nearest, In another place in his extensive record, Dogen tells the story and has a prose comment. And he says, I would respond to Duzon, which is not knowing most intimate or is knowing most intimate. I completely leave the greatest intimacy to intimacy, Dogen says. But now I ask Duzon, what is this intimacy? with each other, with reality, with the world.

[12:48]

How do we get close to this situation where we can see, you know, the problems in our lives and the problems in the world and, you know, and sometimes we think we know how things should be or we know, you know, how to respond, and yet this not knowing, as I said, is closest. It's hard to settle any one place. There's a famous story, so this same story is in the Book of Serenity, chosen by Hong Xiu, and he has a British comment, but the commentator, Wan Song, says about this, he refers to Nan Chuan, who said, the way is not in knowing or in not knowing. Knowing is false consciousness, not knowing is indifference. So this is from that famous story that has been spoken of here a number of times. where the great Zhaozhou asked his teacher Nanchuan, what is the way?

[13:50]

And Nanchuan said, ordinary mind, everyday mind is the way. And Zhaozhou asked, well, how do I get there? And Nanchuan said, the more you try and approach it, the further away you get. And then the point here, Zhaozhou said, well, how do I know if this is it or not? And Nanchuan said, the way is not in knowing, and it's not in not knowing. Knowing is just false consciousness. Knowing is just our delusion, our idea, just our opinion. Not knowing is indifference. So how do we find the way between knowing and not knowing? How do we find the integration of this? And Wansong says, now when people hear it said that not knowing is nearest, as in this story, and that this is where if I was enlightened, they immediately go over to just not knowing, not understanding that just this is it. So this not knowing doesn't mean just not knowing.

[14:52]

I mean, you know, there's lots of people, there's lots of not knowing in the world. There's lots of ignorance. We partake of that and the world is a mess because of it. So it's not that we can just rely on not knowing anything. Of course, there's lots of stuff we each know, and lots of stuff we know together. But, okay, so what does it mean to know? What does it mean to be close, to be intimate with our reality? So, Lonsdorf has said some other interesting things in his commentary. He also, refers to another old master who said, well, he quotes a number of old masters. So the way these stories and the commentaries work is they're commentaries on commentaries on commentaries and lots of different references to teachers who've referred to this.

[15:55]

One said that one word, knowing, is the gate of myriad wonders. So we shouldn't disdain knowing. What does it mean to know? How do we know? What do we really know? Just affirm totally when affirming, but don't settle down in affirmation. Deny totally when denying, but don't settle down in denial. Passing through all the five degrees of ultimate and particular, how could you die under one phrase. So we can't rely on not knowing, even though not knowing is near. This is a sensitive and dynamic issue. What is it we know? And what is it we don't know? And how do we Perceive amidst not knowing, even though, you know, again, there's lots of stuff each of us know.

[16:59]

Then there's another saying, in walking and sitting, just hold to the moment before thought arises. Look into it, and you'll see not seeing, and then put it to one side. When you direct your effort like this, rest does not interfere with meditation. Meditation does not interfere with rest. So, look at that moment before the thought arises. This is a Zazen instruction, a meditation instruction. And there's others that are related to it, but pay attention as we're sitting. It's not about having some particular state of mind. Our Zazen isn't about finding some perfect state of being or state of awareness or understanding. But can you pay attention to that space just before any thought arises? What is that? Is it knowing? Is it not knowing?

[18:01]

Study this. He wants to quote a number of other really interesting sayings, and I'll just repeat some of these, let's say a little bit, and then we can have some discussion. But maybe first I'll read Hongzhi's verse, Now having studied to the fullest, like before, having shed entirely the finest thread, he reaches, not knowing, let it be short, let it be long, stop cutting and patching, going along with the high, along with the low, it levels itself. The abundance or scarcity of the house is used according to the occasion. So, how do we use knowing? How do we use not knowing? How is not knowing helpful? When is it helpful to know something? It's easy to get confused.

[19:03]

Be careful. Roaming serenely in the land, he goes where his feet takes him. The purpose of ten years pilgrimage Clearly, he's turned his back on one pair of eyebrows. So, again, what's this pilgrimage about? C.S. Eliot says that the point of all auto-wandering is to come back to the place where we started and know it for the first time. So, here we are, you know. You've all come here to Settling Zazen tonight in here, a little Dharma maybe. What are we doing? How are we doing this together? How do we support each other? How do we find our way of living and responding to the problems of the world in our own life? If you think you know, that's a problem.

[20:04]

If you hold on to not knowing, that's a problem too. Now, not knowing is nearest, but okay. How do we proceed? So, a wonderful text by Ianto says, hitherto deluded about enlightenment, seeming deluded, now awakened from delusion. It's not enlightenment. Therefore, it's said, after complete enlightenment, one again is the same as someone who is not yet enlightened. So the point of our practice isn't to get some enlightenment. It's not a commodity we would get down at the corner store. And when we are fully awakened, it's the same as if we... Maybe it's the same as if we never practiced. I don't know. It's this ignorance and awareness. Very close. Very close.

[21:05]

How do we not know without falling into the kind of ignorance that destroys the world? How do we not know without ignoring the suffering of the world? So this is a very tricky story. A couple more things. Oh, this is from Linji, Great Master Rinzai. He asked Lopo, where do you come from? And Lopo said, from Luangsi. Linji said, there's something I would ask about. May I? Lopo said, I don't understand. And Linji said, even searching throughout the whole of China, it's hard to find one who doesn't understand. So, can you actually be one who doesn't understand? Can you live and work and respond and allow your love to express itself in the world from not understanding?

[22:09]

Maybe it's too easy to understand, anyway. The last comment, well, there's a couple of more good ones, but this is from the great teacher Sung Kyaw who said, the non-difference of all things doesn't mean that you add to a duck's legs and cut a crane's legs, level mountains to fill valleys, thereafter considering them no different." So this has to do with the sameness and difference we chanted about. It's not that we make not knowing and knowing the same. They're not the same. Let me know. How do we allow not knowing to guide us? Well, maybe I'll pause there, and then we'll just go back to the original story.

[23:11]

So then Master Kalyan, so he was already, so the way the story is told, he was already a teacher, but he was going around visiting other teachers, testing himself. And he met Dzong and asked, Dzon asked, Elder, where are you going? And Fayan said, I'm wandering around on pilgrimage. What's it like to wander around on pilgrimage? What is the point of our pilgrimage? And that's what Dzon asked, what is the point of your pilgrimage? So this is a real How is it that you showed up at Ancient Dragon? Or how is it that you showed up in Chicago? Or how is it that you showed up in this life? What's the point of your pilgrimage?" And Fahyad was quite honest. He said, I don't know. And Tisana agreed, saying, not knowing is most intimate.

[24:15]

So, Comments, questions, responses? Does anybody know a response or not know a response? I think it's good to talk to you. I especially like that final point about what is the point of your pilgrimage One line that you said that got me thinking was that the more you, it was something along the lines of the more you try to get there the farther away you are from it. Yes. And it got me thinking about the place and purpose of effort in the practice. And so I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how effort ought to manifest itself given that.

[25:20]

Yeah, good question. Where do we apply ourselves? Where do we place our effort? What is the point of our effort? So, Suki Roshi talked about beginner's mind. So maybe our effort is to forget all the things we think we know, or to not be caught by that, or to not hold on to that. It's not easy being a beginner. You know, after you've been sitting for a little while and you've read a little bit or you've heard a few talks, you know, you might think you know something about all this. And you might. But, you know, how do we enjoy each inhale and exhale without being caught by some sense of what that is? How do we proceed in the world without a clump projecting ourselves and all the things we know onto the world?

[26:28]

How can we meet reality? Whatever that is. How can we meet the situation we're in? How can we meet the problems we want to help respond to? In a way that is not caught by all the stuff that we know. So this effort is subtle. It's not an effort to get somewhere or accomplish something. It's an effort to actually be real, to be in the situation we're in. And, you know, again, we all know a lot of stuff, and it's not that that's bad and we should get rid of that exactly, but how do we find our freshness? So it's a funny kind of effort. It's the effort to let go without pushing things away. To call it effort is a little too much. I don't know, does anybody else have that response for Will?

[27:29]

Because it's a really important, good question. Yes, Ken. Is there an element of faith in that knowing? Yeah, that's an interesting word, faith, and I think that's right, that's exactly right. The English word faith, as a translator, I sometimes try and avoid, or I feel like it needs to be unpacked, because our idea in Western culture of faith is believing in something, something we know, so we know scripture and verse, and we think we can rely on that. So that's not the faith you're speaking of. How do we trust and have the confidence to take the next step, or to try something, or to respond, to settle enough so that we're not reacting out of some dogma to the stuff in the world, but responding to the freshness of the situation.

[28:33]

So yeah, there's a kind of confidence or trust that we can only get from trial and error, from making lots of mistakes, and from being willing to face the sadness and confusion of reality in our lives. But yeah, we can call that faith, and it's important. But it's also, again, part of the commentaries on all of this is that we can't hold on to what we think we know, but we also can't hold on to not knowing. So, in the middle of that, what is that integration of that harmony of knowing and not knowing that we can trust, that can allow us to proceed? So, in that sense, faith is a good point to end on. It's beyond knowing and not knowing.

[29:41]

Excuse me, but that's actually part of the point of the story. This not knowing that is nearest, isn't the not knowing of not knowing the knowing. Yeah. And that's perfectly clear from the conversation that we are having an intelligent discussion. We really know and understand what's going on. But they're not using that knowing to grasp the control. They're not saying, we figured it out and this is the answer. That's knowing and not knowing is a dichotomy, and that's not what they're doing. They're not holding on to that. Yeah, that kind of knowing shuts down possibilities. So it's certainly possible to know without holding on to it, and to sort of step out of that thinking

[30:52]

And I think that's what I want to do. As far as effort is concerned, I think it's... You know, I think it's... For me, it's always a mistake to try hard. You know, Strings doesn't... It's not about strings. It's about being willing, but not... It's not willing something to happen. It's being willing. Good. And to the extent there's an effort, I think it's the effort of involving perseverance and patience, being willing to keep your butt on the cushion, but not screaming to accomplish something. I think that's the point of Africa. Without this putting your butt on the cushion, or over and over again, being willing to do whatever you're doing, that nothing happens.

[32:02]

Thank you. So, time for one last comment or response. David, you trumped Eric, go ahead. When we were talking before I was reminded of something customers who want something they needed to have it by a certain time this is a fixed agenda for them and it's just at the same time they're stepping in the wrong way by not giving me all the data that I need to complete and how do I get through this and how do I help them get to their goal and it's it's fine when I'm sitting in the chair and facing a wall

[33:27]

It just feels more difficult. I find it easier to care for the people than to try to accomplish Well, if I may, that's the, you know, the struggle, I don't know if that's the right word, that's the issue that we all face being laying on residential practice place, that we're all in the world in various ways. We all have business in the world in various ways, and yet we are practicing this practice

[34:40]

to find a space from which to respond. And so I think in terms of that question, it's this story and this issue of knowing and not knowing is helpful, to not get caught on either side. And, you know, there is sort of a preference for not knowing. So to be willing to hear what those people who are asking you for things are saying, and without your idea of what it should be. So, this is a challenge, you know, and this is the challenge of our practice here. And so, thank you all for your pilgrimages and finding your way here. We'll close now with the four Bodhisattva vows.

[35:36]

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