May we bring forth as much as we can of love and respect and faith, removing all obstruction, melting away resistance, and listen to the perfect wisdom of the gentle Buddhas, taught for the wheel of the world, for heroic spirits intended. We, in the Zen tradition, often chant what's called

[01:23]

the Great Perfection of Wisdom Heart Sutra, or the Great Heart of Wisdom, Gone Beyond Wisdom scripture. And in there it says that when the bodhisattva of infinite compassion was practicing deeply the perfection of wisdom, or the wisdom gone beyond. So it says practicing deeply, but also you could say practicing the deep wisdom, which is gone beyond. So this deep wisdom has the function to liberate beings, but it's also deep.

[02:28]

And being deep, it's rather difficult to open up to this depth, and the vastness and depth of this wisdom. It's difficult. It's a deep matter to really open to an understanding which goes beyond all of our understandings. So this class is devoted to studying and practicing a wisdom which goes beyond our ideas of wisdom. So I'm somewhat, what's the word, concerned that we're all able to listen to these teachings in a way that they're good medicine.

[03:35]

Because for some minds this medicine may be too strong. And for years and years I've talked to you about the six perfections, which could be five and one, or three and three. But in particular, five and one is giving ethical discipline, patience, enthusiasm, concentration.

[04:36]

And number six is the wisdom going beyond wisdom. And I've emphasized over and over that to practice the perfection of wisdom, one needs to be practicing the first five perfections. And usually, as we're discussing these six perfections, we don't really quite get to the perfection of wisdom. Usually we are studying the first five, or the first one and a half, which is wonderful. But this time, in a sense, we're kind of starting with number six. We must practice the first five in order to really, fruitfully enter the practice of the sixth.

[05:39]

Once you enter the sixth, you realize that the sixth was always in the first five. But you have to practice the first five to realize that the sixth is actually already, that wisdom beyond wisdom, because it's free of your ideas, of it, and free of all your ideas, it's always present in everything we're doing. But we have to practice these virtues in order to realize that wisdom is present all the time. So in this class, I'm not going to go through the first five, really. I mean, I talk about them a little, but basically we're going to be working on the wisdom which follows from these five practices.

[06:42]

So one might say, well, if I haven't done these five practices, should I be listening to these teachings? And I would say, if you don't think you've done these first five practices, you need to be very careful of these teachings. And if you have been practicing these five practices, you will be careful of these teachings. These five practices of giving and so on, up to concentration, they help you be careful of everything. And if you approach these teachings, or if I approach these teachings, or we approach these teachings, not being careful, that wouldn't be appropriate. Then they would not be beneficial to us. We have to be sober, relatively sober, to receive these teachings. Until we receive these teachings, we're not completely, truly sober.

[07:46]

We're still somewhat addicted to intoxicating thoughts until we have wisdom. But we can be sober enough to realize that we're addicted. And being addicted we should be very careful of our experience moment by moment. And we should be careful of superficial things, and we should be careful of deep things. There are many scriptures which teach about the perfection of wisdom. And as I've mentioned to you a number of times, that the Zen tradition, and this class is called, I think, Zen Meditation on Perfect Wisdom.

[08:52]

So this is a Zen meditation class. And Zen is a transmission of a practice, of an enlightenment, which is free of the scriptures. But free of the scriptures doesn't mean that you don't touch the scriptures, and play with the scriptures, and study the scriptures. It's a special transmission of a way to study mountains, and rivers, and living beings, and scriptures. It's a transmission of a way to study profound teachings. And these teachings are teachings which are free of the teachings. So the meditation is a meditation on freedom from the teachings, which is the point of the teachings, is to free beings from teachings which they've heard, and teachings which they're hearing.

[09:55]

So, for example, this is a scripture. Yeah, as a matter of fact, this is a scripture of the teachings of a Zen master whose name is Dai Chi, which means great wisdom. This is a teaching of a Zen master named Great Wisdom. So I'm showing you a special transmission outside the scripture. Do you see it? Now you have it. I wasn't attached to the scriptures, and if you're not, that's good. I heard that one time the Buddha, the Bhagavata,

[11:12]

Bhagavata means the blessed one, the wonderful one, the Buddha, the Bhagavata, saw that the whole universe, with all its worlds, was assembled. And all the bodhisattvas, all the great compassionate beings were there, along with all the other beings in the universe. They were all assembled. And then the Buddha said to the venerable monk, Sariputra, a bodhisattva, a great being, who wants to fully know all things in all their modes,

[12:20]

in all their aspects, which is Buddha's wisdom, is to know all things in all ways. A bodhisattva who wants to fully know this enlightenment of Buddha should make, should endeavor, should make endeavors in wisdom beyond wisdom. If you want Buddha's enlightenment, you should make endeavors in wisdom beyond wisdom. And then Sariputra says, How should a bodhisattva make endeavors in the perfection of wisdom? And the Buddha said, Here, Sariputra, a bodhisattva,

[13:27]

a great being, having stood in the perfection of wisdom by way of not taking a stand in the perfection of wisdom. And then he keeps going after this, but I just want to stop here and say that how do you make endeavors in perfection of wisdom? The first thing is you stand in it. How do you stand in it? By not taking a stand in it. How do you stand in imperfect wisdom? You probably understand now how to stand in imperfect wisdom, right? You know how to do that. By this teaching you know how to stand in wisdom which has not gone beyond wisdom, right?

[14:32]

How? By taking a stand. If you want to practice wisdom which hasn't gone beyond wisdom, then take a stand in it, and you'll be successful. What's wisdom that hasn't gone beyond wisdom? Well, that's any kind of wisdom that you have available. Any understanding you have, just take a stand in it, and you will be taking a stand in wisdom which has not gone beyond that wisdom. This would also apply to stupidity. If you stand in stupidity, you also are not going beyond stupidity. Do you stand by positions?

[15:37]

Take a position would be fine. Physical or mental position, either one. You got some wisdom, sort of like rely on that wisdom, hold on that wisdom. So, as I mentioned at Noah Boat on Saturday, it is taught that the lack of a basis of apprehension in all things, that is called the perfection of wisdom. So, all of us know a little bit about all things, right? We know, all of us know a lot of things. So, everything you know, the lack of a basis to apprehend anything you know,

[16:48]

that lack of a basis for apprehension, that is the perfection of wisdom. If you take a stand in anything, you are not taking a stand in the lack of a basis to take a stand. You are not paying attention to the lack of a basis to take a stand, and you are taking a stand. That is not practicing the perfection of wisdom. However, if you notice it, there is a possibility that you can practice the perfection of wisdom. If you notice that you are taking a stand, and you can then admit, oh, I am not practicing the perfection of wisdom, I am taking a stand, and I actually think I am taking a stand, and I am taking a stand, and thinking I am taking a stand. But actually I am not sure I am taking a stand, maybe I am not, and maybe I am okay with maybe not taking a stand, and not knowing whether I am taking a stand or not. This is opening up to the lack of a basis a little bit.

[17:57]

It also says, from where does the bodhisattva, the great compassionate being, where do they go forth into the perfection of wisdom? From where do they go? They go from the triple world. They go from all the places to stand. Have you ever had a place to stand? You can go forth into not taking a stand from taking a stand. And this is the part we need to be careful of now. The world you are living in right now, the way you step forward into the world where you don't take a stand here, is from this world where you do take a stand. Bring forth as much as you can of love and respect and faith.

[19:13]

Faith in what? Faith in the teachings of perfect wisdom given by the gentle Buddhas. Now, again, I'm suggesting here that we're not going to go back and start from giving and work up to perfection of wisdom. We're going to look at things in ourselves, we're going to try to look at things in ourselves which might indicate that we're not ready for it. And then, if we address the things which indicate that we're not ready, we, in this way, may become ready. Beings who find, what I'm about to say, boring,

[20:26]

are probably ready for what I say, because you can just be bored with it. But if you're bored with what I'm saying, you're not ready for the perfection of wisdom. I'd like to say a little bit about the Sanskrit words which are translated as wisdom beyond wisdom or perfect wisdom. Again, perfect wisdom, the perfection of wisdom, is when wisdom is perfected by going beyond itself. So there is actually some kinds of wisdom which do have good understanding, but they're not perfected until they don't apprehend themselves or don't apprehend what they wisely know. There is wisdom which is not perfected, which

[21:35]

is abiding somewhere. So, the word prajna, which again is translated as wisdom, often, or insight, or knowledge, it's made of two parts. One part is basically the root, which Romanized is J-N-A. And the N has a little squiggle on top, which makes it, you know, like, instead of an N, more like N-N-N, like manana. So it's J-N with a squiggle on top A, so it's like N-A, N-A, a little bit of J, N-A, [...] N-A. It's the same

[22:40]

root as, you know, like gnosis, as in hypnosis and so on, and gnostic, and it's also the root of German words like kennen and English words like knowledge and know. It's Indo-European root, J-N-A, N-A. It means knowing or knowledge. And then the prefix pra- is a little bit like the prefix pre- and the prefix pro-. It's a cognate with those. When I first heard what this prefix meant, I heard it meant to intensify or intensity. So pra-nya would be an intensified knowing, a knowing which is very intense and penetrating.

[23:49]

But now I'm offering other meanings of this prefix in Sanskrit, this prefix pra-. And as I mentioned this morning in Green Gulch, Sanskrit words and Sanskrit roots usually don't have like one definition, but more like have a constellation of associated meanings. They don't mean one thing usually. Similar to Chinese characters, which can mean many things. Some characters have many meanings. And that's part of the, you know, the virtues of Chinese is when you hear the word, you hear a whole constellation of possible meanings. And also, because Chinese has lots of characters which have lots of meanings, which sound like

[24:57]

other characters which have lots of meanings, when you hear one of the characters, you hear the other characters. And depending on the context, you know which character it is, and depending on the context, you know which meanings of that character probably apply. So the pra- can mean power, like powerful wisdom. Intense or intensity. Excellent. Pure. Did I say powerful already? Source. Complete. Separate. And

[26:14]

eradication or cessation or termination. Pra- has all those meanings. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. And because this word, this pra- goes with the knowing, and the knowing is in the context of Buddhist teaching, the knowing is seen not just as knowledge, but knowledge, or what is known, and knowing, and knower. So in Buddhist process of knowledge involves a recognition of knowing, knower, and known. And that they're all resonating

[27:18]

together. So in that context, all these meanings apply, not just one. And they resonate more or less strongly, again depending on whether you're talking about knowing, knower, or known, or the impossible grasping of any of them. So this, as I said earlier, which is the first two, the powerful and intensity are kind of related, that the power, this powerful knowing, can overcome delusion. It has the power to overcome delusion. It's a way of knowing delusion that overcomes it, and nothing can overcome it. Because it doesn't take a stand, it can't

[28:19]

be overcome. And because it doesn't take a stand, it can overcome delusion. We can overcome delusion if we can learn to not apprehend it. And we can learn to not apprehend it if we notice we're bored with not apprehending it. Oftentimes people think it's quite interesting to apprehend ideas, quite interesting to apprehend concepts. Have you ever noticed that? Well, it is sometimes. And if you apprehend a concept, although it was kind of fun to apprehend it, then you may find, after not too long, that you're stressed. Any concept that you apprehend becomes a condition for stress. Because perfect wisdom knows that no concept has within it a

[29:30]

basis for apprehension, if you go against this wisdom and apprehend things, you're stressing your life. This wisdom has the power to overcome delusion, which means it has the power to overcome apprehending delusion. And it can do that simply by not taking a stand, and also that's why you can't get rid of it. You can't stop it, but you can join it. It's always available if you're ready. And the next one is, this is an intense knowing, in that it can penetrate external appearances and intuit the inner reality of things. Which is similar to what

[30:37]

I just said, it can penetrate the externality by not taking a stand in externality and realize the internal reality. This prajna is a source of source knowledge, in that it is the source of enlightenment. This lack of any way to grasp things, that is the source of enlightenment. That is the mother of all Buddhas. This is the mother of all Buddhas. It's the source of all enlightenment. The

[31:40]

absence of a basis for apprehending in all things, in everything. This is the source of enlightenment because it is insight into the source of everything. Because things lack a basis for apprehension, they can be. Nothing could be if things could be apprehended, but things cannot be apprehended, and that is the nature of all things, and that makes everything possible. Without this lack of a basis for apprehension. There is apprehension, but there's no basis of it. We apprehend things that don't have a

[32:42]

base for the apprehension, and the fact that they don't have the base for apprehension is how they offer themselves to us to apprehend. Enlightenment is to realize that they all have this nature. This perfection of wisdom is complete knowledge, in that there is nothing it does not comprehend by this penetration. It's complete, there's nothing, it applies to everything. It's not a specialized form of knowledge. And again, this is why it is for the welfare of all forms of being, for all beings. And I just mentioned

[33:42]

this paradox that although it is for the welfare of all beings, not all beings are ready to receive what is for their welfare. So we have the opportunity to check to see if we're ready, and check to see what it would be like not to be ready and take care of that. But I still haven't got to that, other than telling you, if you find what I'm saying boring, get over it. Because finding what I'm saying is boring makes you not ready for something that's much more important than what I'm saying. The perfection of wisdom. And then also, this is a separate knowledge, in that it is detached and other

[34:48]

than thoughts and imagination. This wisdom is not a thought and is not an image. What is it? It's the lack of a basis for apprehending thoughts, and the lack of basis for apprehending images. And also, even though it doesn't take a stand, it can distinguish all the things it doesn't take a stand in. It can distinguish from taking a stand in wisdom and a stand in delusion. But it's not that I'm bored, I actually think this is interesting, but I'm going to stop now for a little while, before I finish the list of the meanings of the

[36:06]

word pra, as in prajna. I'm going to stop now because I'm not sure if everybody has avoided being bored. I don't want to lose anybody. I've got to practice that every now and then, otherwise I'll forget how to do it. See, for a second there I thought, to do it this way doesn't work so well this way. This way. Interesting. Like a slinky. Okay, and now I'm just going to mention, so there's a text, a Perfect Wisdom text, which is called The Questions of the Mind.

[37:36]

Su Vikranta Vikrami. That's the name of a Bodhisattva. Su Vikranta Vikrami means something like Triumphant Victor Bodhisattva. So it's the questions of this Bodhisattva, it's the Perfect Wisdom scripture, which is the questions of this Bodhisattva, and in this scripture, at the beginning, there's a list of things, types of minds, for which this teaching is not appropriate. Okay, and the first type of mind for which this teaching is not appropriate is a mind of low aspiration, or inferior resolve.

[38:45]

That's the first kind of mind that this teaching isn't appropriate for. So, what's an inferior resolve? Well, that would be like, we're not going to mention all types of inferior resolve, we're going to actually mention sort of the top of the line of inferior resolve. For example, we're not going to mention, for example, we're not going to say what I'm about to say. That's a Zen thing. I'm not going to say what I'm about to say. I'm not going to say that this is not a teaching for people who are resolved on hurting other people. I'm not going to say that. But of course it isn't. The high level of low resolve is, for example, to wish for peace for yourself, just for the sake of peace for yourself. That would be a low resolve from the point of view of this teaching.

[39:58]

But that's not such a bad resolve, is it? Wanting peace for yourself, for the sake of having peace for yourself? That's nowhere near as low as wanting to hurt somebody, or wanting other people not to be happy, right? But relative to the resolve that's appropriate to perfect wisdom, it's low. It's not way low, it's just like one step down, or one or two steps down. So, some people have confessed to me that they have that kind of aspiration. They aspire to have peace. In order that they would have peace. And they would aspire to have the joy and bliss of peace, so that they would have the joy and bliss of peace. They confess that to me when they hear stuff like this. So I'm asking you and me to look in your heart and see if you have that resolve. And if you do, whether you're up for letting it go, so you would be more prepared to receive the perfect wisdom teachings.

[41:14]

Which are teachings of high resolve, which is wishing for peace for all beings, and wishing for peace in order to help beings be peaceful. Not wishing for peace for myself, but wishing for peace for you, and wishing for peace so that I can help you find peace. That's the kind of resolve that this teaching is for. Because you could maybe get some peace for yourself by finding some wisdom and holding on to it. Like I said, that's pretty entertaining sometimes. If you look carefully, you'll find there's some stress, as I said, but that's the first problem. That's the first way I'm not ready for this teaching, for this deep wisdom teaching, is that I have not the high resolve, some number of steps down from that. So I need to check with myself frequently to see how that's going for me. I don't need to check on other people. I just mention to other people to check on themselves.

[42:28]

This means, check on yourself. Check on yourself. What's your resolve? Do you have the resolve that's appropriate to the type of wisdom which really frees all suffering? I think there's eight of these, so we could do one a week, because we have eight classes. Maybe more than one, but that's the one I'm offering now. And it's ongoing maintenance of checking your resolve to see if your resolve is appropriate to perfection of wisdom. And to see if your resolve, to see if the aspiration of your life is appropriate and will allow you to benefit by the teaching of not taking a stand in anything, including wisdom.

[43:38]

We need this kind of aspiration in order to really benefit from the practice, the practice which is living in the lack of a basis for apprehending anything. Okay, I said so much. I'd like to stop now and invite your responses. Yes? I have two questions. Could you remind me of the difference between aspiration and ambition? The difference between aspiration and ambition? I think they could be the same. In a sense, these bodhisattvas have ambition. They have the ambition of realizing Buddhahood for the welfare of all beings.

[44:59]

But it's a type of ambition which is not for the sake of the thing that they don't apprehend. It's not for the sake of themselves, and it's not for the sake of others. And being not for the sake of themselves and not for the sake of others is what liberates beings. They have that aspiration. They have that ambition. And it is, in a sense, it's an amazing ambition. We often say, so-and-so is ambitious, and we often use that for when they're taking on something challenging. We don't usually say that so-and-so is ambitious because they woke up this morning. I have the ambition to wake up tomorrow morning. Yes? I'm confused about the use of the word, I suppose, it's apprehend, like expect something, expectation.

[46:10]

Well, there could be an expectation that you don't apprehend. In other words, you could expect something, like a thought could arise, like I know it would be. It could be, I expect the sun to rise tomorrow, but you could also not apprehend that. You could just say, that's just a thought. I don't apprehend it. So, in that sense, it's not an expectation that I'm rigid about. It's an expectation I'm ready to go beyond. As you know, some places in the universe the sun does not rise. Like if you're off the planet Earth, for example, you jump up high, and you look at the sun, and you sort of move around the Earth, the sun won't rise anymore.

[47:14]

And you can be open to that. So, expectation is a thought. And that thought actually has no basis for being grasped, for being apprehended. To realize that, then the wisdom is living with the thought of the expectation thought. Are you no longer confused? Yeah. And then the wisdom would be to realize there's no basis of being less confused for apprehension. So, being this confused or less confused, both of them have no basis for apprehension. That's where the wisdom is living. Yes? Yes. Is apprehension standing rigid in the way you think things are? Yes. It is also apprehending the way you think things are.

[48:24]

Yes, it is. Yes? Yes. So, the example is, what about if you notice you're apprehending, and you also hear the teaching that this apprehension that I'm involved in is baseless? What did you say? Well, if you're not apprehending that, you understand. Well, actually, did you hear that? He said, in the process of apprehending, you realize it's baseless. And usually, when one first understands and enters the wisdom, which is the lack of basis of apprehending,

[49:27]

as you first enter, you have just stepped forth from apprehending. So, there usually is a time when you actually just step forth from apprehending into understanding there's no basis. In other words, you don't step forth into the lack of basis for apprehending, you step forth from apprehending. From where do you enter? From where do you step forth into the lack of basis for apprehending? From apprehending. The world is the world which is the world of apprehending. It's from the world of apprehending that we step into the perfect wisdom, which is the lack of all the apprehending that was done in that world. Okay? Yeah, you think so?

[50:29]

And then from there is where you step forth into the lack of basis for apprehending, I think so. Anything else? Any other responses? Yes? It is a teaching for bodhisattvas. It is a teaching for those who are concerned with the liberation of all beings. Before themselves, in the sense that they won't check out a bondage and then not be available to those who are in bondage. They're going to stay in bondage until everybody is free.

[51:33]

They want to do that. Because they understand that's what makes a Buddha, and we need a Buddha to really set everybody free. So this teaching is for those beings. It's something further than what an Arhat knows. It's something further than what an Arhat knows, yes. A Buddha knows more than an Arhat. Some beings can be personally free, but they're not Buddhas. So the historical Buddha had disciples who became free, but they did not become Buddhas. And some of the disciples that became free might have said, well, now that I'm free, I think one of the things I'd like to do is be a Buddha for the welfare of all beings. So some of those liberated disciples could have given rise to the aspiration to become Buddha for the welfare of all beings. Or just because it's the best.

[52:35]

Yes? Is it dangerous because you don't have a leg to stand on? It's not so much dangerous because you don't have a leg to stand on, because you already don't have a leg to stand on. It's dangerous because our mind may be destabilized by the thought that we don't have a leg to stand on. The fact that we don't have a leg to stand on is not a problem. That actually makes everything possible. The fact of wisdom is not a problem. It's that the dawn of wisdom for some minds might make them more rigid, and might make them destabilized, and unable to even hear lesser teachings, which might be a benefit to them. But it's not the fact that it's a problem.

[53:38]

It's that the mind isn't ready for it. So having low resolve is a result of that fear? Having what? Having low resolve is actually a result of fear. Is this meaning that we're talking about? I think having low resolve is a result of fear, yes. Low resolve comes from, because our world is obstructed by our imagination, I should say, because reality is being obstructed by our imagination, we are afraid. And in our fear, we have various resolves, various aspirations in our fear. And some people have these terrible aspirations, like they want to hurt people. They want to damage themselves. They want to torture themselves. They want to do these terrible things. And some people have much better resolves than that, like they want to help people. That's a pretty good resolve.

[54:39]

They want to help people. But it's a better resolve to say, I want to help people, and I also understand that I don't really understand what other people are, or who I am, and that's kind of a problem if I want to help people. So that's a higher resolve when your resolve is informed by being aware that you're deluded. So then you might think, well, and actually some people think, I want to help people, and they just think they can go right to work, which is fine, and that's pretty good, and then they get in trouble, and then they realize the reason they're in trouble is because this good thing they want to do is fulfilled by their own delusion, by their own rigidity. Somehow they wake up to that. This is a growth. So then they think, oh, I should study myself. That would be helpful to this project of helping people. And then if they keep going like that,

[55:41]

they'll just say, well, I should study myself and study myself, and I should learn all about myself in order to benefit beings. And some people who are on this track actually in the process and shift to doing it for themselves as it starts to work, actually, pretty well. And so they get temporarily distracted from becoming enlightened about themselves in order to help people to becoming enlightened because it would give them peace. So it's possible to be on the bodhisattva track and get temporarily distracted into personal liberation. Oh, we start that way. That's the basic, that's one of the basic imaginations is those people out there are separate from me. That's one of the basic delusions. And that makes, that's part of what sets up the mistake that we can apprehend things. But there's no basis to apprehend things

[56:43]

because they're not out there, and so on. So all the aspirations that come from the bodhisattva from delusion are tainted by fear. And then the fear has an influence on further aspirations. But still it's possible for somebody who is afraid to still somehow think, I'm afraid, but I would like to realize Buddhahood in order to liberate all frightened people. That can arise in a person who's afraid because they still have some obstructions. That they, that they don't understand yet. There's no basis for apprehension. But they hear that if they would understand it there would be no fear. They hear that and they think, you know, it makes sense that that's so. I can't, actually I can see that if I didn't have these obstructions there would be no basis for apprehension and no fear.

[57:44]

And I would like to realize that wisdom. And I would like to realize it for the welfare of others. Realizing it for the welfare of others without apprehending them either, that promotes this wisdom. If you don't want that, this wisdom is not so appropriate. So if you want this highest quality wisdom you should check your resolve. That's the number one thing. That's the starting point. Yes? Right. Very good. Yes.

[58:49]

And also notice, like somebody, I was talking to someone and they said, if I turn the light around and shine it back and study myself it makes it harder for me to actually understand what people are saying to me. Like, especially if somebody's teaching you something you're trying to learn, you know, and then you start studying yourself, looking at yourself while you're trying to learn it, you think, well, that makes it harder to hear what they're saying in a way that I can grasp it. And so you have to look and see that sometimes we do not want to look at ourselves and see if we're trying to grasp things because we think that that will make it harder for us to be clear about the apprehensions. The question is, are you willing to renounce getting that stuff that you still think there's something to apprehend? And that's a big switch. It's a renunciation of trying to get more stuff for the sake of getting over that whole project.

[59:53]

And it's hard. But if you notice you're doing it... Well, I think a lot of people do. So, I'm not saying it's driven just by anxiety. It's basically driven by past thoughts like that. It's driven by past thinking. So it's very strong and you're noticing it, and noticing it is good because you're noticing, well, this is one of the later ones,

[60:54]

you're noticing that you're in the realm of views. And noticing that you're kind of stuck in that will be the way for you to get unstuck. But the question is, are you willing to, at least for a short period of time, give up being able to hold the view or even get a new one, a new improved one, are you willing to give that up for a little while to look back and see, this is what I'm doing. Not so much, what is it that I'm holding on to, but I am trying to hold on to, I am holding on to, and I think if I got maybe a slightly better view than the one I've got. The one I've got is things are going pretty well, the ones I've got, and now somebody, like a teacher, maybe a Buddhist teacher, is telling me new stuff, so the Buddhist teacher is telling me stuff that if I would get those, I would even be better off.

[61:54]

But the Buddhist teacher is really saying, what I'm teaching you is outside of what I'm teaching you. I'm teaching you not to grasp what I'm teaching you, which means if you keep trying to grasp and understand what I just said, and you keep trying to understand what I said, you're not understanding what I said, because what I said was, look back that you're trying to get what I said. So in this case, it's like if you would just give up trying to grasp and apprehend what I'm saying, you would be understanding what I'm saying. Here it's okay, you don't understand how it is, okay, because you're not grasping what I'm saying, because you really would understand it, you just wouldn't grasp it, you couldn't take it home with you, but you're practicing it when you turn around and study, oh, I'm trying to grasp what he's saying, even though I think I understand. Understanding there's no way to grasp

[62:57]

what he's saying is understanding what he's saying. Now how about to do that with other things? But those things aren't teaching me the same things, so I probably shouldn't do the same thing with those. Those things are not telling you to do that, but if you do the same thing with those things, you would also be doing the practice. And with those things, to sort of understand this, and to really understand this, it does seem to be better when these things are not telling you, don't do this. So we have lots of opportunities to notice this, and this high resolve is part of the reason we would be willing to give up getting any better at anything in the world in order to get better at not getting better, and not grasping getting better. That's what really frees beings, and if you really want to free beings, you should make the switch. But to make the switch,

[64:01]

you sort of have to notice if you're still trying to get stuff, because if you are, you should be honest. And the key to this practice is to be honest about the grasping you're doing. That's the ethics practice. I'm totally into grasping and trying to get things clear, because I think if I got things clear, my life would be good. But do you think other people's life would be good if you got that stuff? Do you think that would liberate other beings? Well, probably you don't think that. Check it out. Check it out. Yeah, right. I don't think it helps me for you to grasp your idea of what helps me. I don't think it helps me. Yeah, you think that, but I don't think that. I think that maybe some things that I grasp would help me, but I don't think that grasping those things is going to help you. For example, I think that if I understood you better, that might help me. If I knew you better

[65:02]

and I got a better grasp on you, that might help me. You know? One of the examples is children who grow up in alcoholic families. They're always trying to watch the alcoholic in the family to try to understand them so they'll be safe. Wait a minute. What do you mean wait a minute? How about that example? Isn't that what they're trying to do before you go on to wait a minute? You're trying to help them. They're not doing it because they think it's going to help the alcoholic. If you want to help the alcoholic, study how you're grasping the alcoholic. Don't try to figure them out and what they're going to do next. Study yourself and notice how you're trying to figure them out and don't abide there and you'll be free

[66:03]

and that will help them. So some of the times when we do try to understand other people, we do? We are trying to help them. I'm not saying we're helping them. I think you, when you're trying to understand people, you're almost always trying to help them. I just think that. That you're trying to help people and you think about understanding them, I would help them. And I'm saying to you, when you notice you're trying to understand somebody, check to see if you're trying to actually apprehend who they are. And if you are, I'm saying to you, you're always doing that for yourself. And also, it will not help them for you to be. If you really want to help them, which I know you do, then you should give up trying to apprehend them for other people,

[67:05]

for apprehending them. So when people are talking to you and they're crying, and you want to understand them, well, yes, you can try to understand them, but see if you can understand them without apprehending them. Which means, study that your mind is trying to apprehend them. You're trying to understand them by getting a hold of them. You have to notice that you're not going to help them. And you're not going to understand them either. You're not going to understand them because you're not going to understand what they are, because everybody is that way. Everybody has no basis for being apprehended. That's the way everybody is. And if you understand that about people, you understand people. You can still tell the difference between them, if you get a hold of Vera or Laurie.

[68:06]

And the reason I know that is because I've been watching how I've been trying to apprehend them for quite a while. And I have noticed that to such a point that I'm actually now ready to give up apprehending them and contemplate how there's no basis of it. And I'm doing that to help them. And I wanted to help them before when I was apprehending them, but I heard this teaching which says, that's not really for them. I don't know how to help them, which I feel pretty good about, but that doesn't really help me or them. If you can intuitively know, if your intuition is just penetrating in knowing, which doesn't apprehend them, that's wisdom. Let's say that one. That's a good one. Needingness.

[69:19]

You respond, you said you should respond without a story. But the way you would respond without a story would be from the place where you're responding with a story, and then from the place of responding with a story, you enter into the way that that story cannot be apprehended. You have the story, but you don't have to get rid of the story, you have the story of you, another person, you got the story, and from that place, and you notice that you're apprehending it from that place you go into, not apprehending the story, and you can respond to the person from that place of not apprehending. But you can also respond from the illusion that you are apprehending them, which is quite familiar there. You can also be in the world

[70:32]

and then step forth from there into the place where you can't apprehend the world, and from both places you can respond, and the response might be quite similar. You might say yes in both cases. Like somebody says, would you help me? In one case you say yes, but you're actually apprehending them, the yes, blah, blah. In the other case, you notice you're apprehending, you give it up, because you have this high resolve, you do this big thing, this big change of giving up, trying to apprehend, and opening up to not being able to. But you can also be trying and then open up to not being able to. It's impossible, is what we're saying here in reality. But you have to open to it, and you have to realize that it's necessary to open to it, that it's needed if you really want to have this

[71:34]

this wisdom which overcomes delusion and sets people free. Yes. It is? Yep. If you're trying to gain something by helping people, that's going to interfere with helping them in a wise way. You can still try to help. Again, I know you want to help people. I've seen you help people repeatedly express your wish to help people. We're talking about how to help people wisely. In order to help them wisely, you have to give up any idea of gain in the process of help. Even gain for them. Because it's not just gain, it's gain which you actually get a hold of. It's not just floating gain, it's a gain which you actually hook onto and you deliver it. It's not a gain which there's no way to apprehend gain.

[72:36]

It's a gain you're kind of like thinking maybe either you do have it or you could and you want to. It's more like gain, loss, I want to understand the teaching that there's no way to apprehend any gain or loss. And I want to realize that because that's what will help people. And I want to really help people. Not just grasp helping people, which doesn't help people. I think you're okay. I think you handle this pretty well. I think you're all still able to continue and you're checking on whether you have this high resolve. If you've got this high resolve, please take care of it. It will be very helpful in understanding this teaching. If you don't have it, why don't you look to see if you'd like to have it. But you have to be honest. It won't help to be dishonest about this. And if you don't have it, you're welcome here too. And we'll try to work with you.

[73:37]

You non-Bodhisattvas. Thank you very much.

[73:45]