October 27th, 2002, Serial No. 00170, Side A

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

Serial: 
BZ-00170A
AI Summary: 

-

Is This AI Summary Helpful?
Your vote will be used to help train our summarizer!
Photos: 
Notes: 

Both sides #ends-short

Transcript: 

I vow to teach the truth so the target is praised. Good morning. I feel like I'm in this kind of strange dream time that's intimately linked to Dolly's passing. There may be some of you who are just coming in who don't know that our friend, Dali Gautam, long-term resident, her dharma sister, passed away last night at about 10.30, very peacefully at home, right in the building in back of us on the upper floor.

[01:13]

And that seems to be the central thought that's on my mind, and maybe on many of yours, was a kind of part of the dream time as just a kind of incomprehension of loss. You know, not so much the terrible pain, although there's pain and each of us has our own pain, but just that someone who was here yesterday is not here in the same way today and it's very difficult to get one's mind around that. Well yesterday Lori and I were up there in the afternoon and And we were talking about various things with Dolly.

[02:27]

And one of the things that while after the tanto tea that I had yesterday afternoon, Alexandra came back with these orchids for Dolly, which are quite beautiful. And it's a living plant. And we put them there. And she said, oh, those are very beautiful. Maybe you can take them down to the zendo for the opening of the aspects of practice. And that seemed like a really good idea. And a little later in the conversation, there were some other beautiful flowers. And she said oh they were they were cut flowers and she said oh those are those are very beautiful, but they're dead And these are this is a living plant so it seems fitting For it to be here, which is actually where she instructed it to be so that's the kind of

[03:44]

clarity that in spaces she was capable of having yesterday, even as late as four o'clock. Part of the incomprehension, I think, is from just how quickly she stepped back and out of this world. It was really quick. You know, two weeks ago, she was still hoping for a kind of magic bullet. And she had several consultations and realized, well, that wasn't going to happen. And she just turned her mind In the other direction, she turned her mind towards her passing and just felt like, well, that's the work now.

[04:53]

And she was very calm about it. Before, while she had been looking for this cure for more time, I felt she had a fair amount of anxiety. You know, it was difficult. And once she made that switch, things were a lot easier for her. And we talked about it several times, and she wasn't feeling particularly much anxiety. In fact, yesterday she said, you know, I'm not anxious about dying. And I said, well, I can see that. You know, but I just want you to know that there's a lot of us that are not really ready to let you go." And she said, well, I don't feel so great about letting me go either.

[05:56]

You know, but that's what was happening. And it was, you know, it was pretty admirable just to watch her. She had a fair amount of discomfort in the last week or so. And the hospice, the Kaiser Hospice folks came on Thursday, I believe. And, you know, they worked out some medication and they brought her some morphine to try to find the right dose and she took a little of that and it took away whatever discomfort she was having right away but actually for the last for the last about 30 hours she didn't require it she didn't have

[06:59]

any painkiller, she wasn't particularly, we asked her several times if she was in pain or discomfort and she said no. And she just, several of you were there yesterday, she just hour by hour stepped backwards within herself. And then I think the end was fairly quick and relatively peaceful. Mel and Liz were there in the room with her at about 10.30. Mike, I think her brother, her brother's here. And if you haven't met him, it's a treat to do so. It was a great

[08:02]

kind of family resemblance there and a similar kind of spirit, sort of. But Dolly was a real, she really was a Zen student and she'd been practicing with this for so long that she knew how to do it. You know, even in some of the tough spots, you could tell that she was practicing and we would talk about it. So it's, Lori said, oh, so now we're going to have to, she said this morning, now we're going to have to pray to Saint Antoinette, the patron saint of easy deaths.

[09:06]

Maybe so. So this afternoon, some of you have been having an opportunity to sit with her. Is that right? And it looks like you'll be able to continue to do that. and then probably be able to do it more after Sashim ends. I don't know what, you know, what the plans are. I think we'll be able to sit with her for a while and know more. David or Mel might know more, because they've been sort of taking care of logistics. But Mel is going to come. in the afternoon after we have tea and a short zazen and we'll do kind of the standard memorial service that we do just as something impromptu.

[10:12]

We've called, I think Jed and Ann and Andrea and Mark, we've called a lot of people from the directory who we thought should know and invited them to come down this afternoon if they can. And so we'll do this short service and then have some time just to speak our feelings here in this endo. There'll be other ceremonies in the course of the next period of time to mark different passages. There'll be a certain point this week probably a brief ceremony for her cremation and then at some point we'll have a fuller memorial here more like a funeral and also in her will there's a clause that provides for a big party

[11:15]

with music and drinks and food. So that's something we'll have to plan and figure out how to do, you know, a celebration. You know, this is the way she was. She just, she was very careful and thoughtful. And composed, a person with great dignity. And that's, it seems like that's the way she is when you go up there, right? And her room is like that, a little altar next to the bed with photographs of her family and her camels and cigarette lighter. She had, that was one of the last things Yesterday afternoon, she decided she wanted a cigarette. So I said, you know, I said, OK, but you know these things are bad for your health.

[12:24]

So we sat her up, and it was interesting. She really knew what to do with that cigarette. You know, her body was just really trained. She didn't particularly, I think she took like one puff, but the whole, process of working it with your hands and turning it. Even that was part of the care that she took. So I think we're all going to miss her. Another thing that's going to happen this afternoon, I believe, you know, Sojin asked her to sew a green rock suit. which is kind of a new thing. He's asked a couple people to sew green rakusus, people who've been shuso and who really are... It's kind of acknowledgement of their understanding and of the way that they can

[13:31]

their ability to teach us is acknowledged. And so Dolly was actually the first person that he asked. And she and Jean Selkirk had begun working on it. And did you work on it yesterday? Yeah, I did. And it'll probably get done today. I think we might take turns during the work period, if there's enough people, because there's a lot of things we actually have to get done today. And if you need another space it can happen upstairs, but if you need the community room Right, but but anybody who would like to put in a few stitches I think we'll try to make that available and then That'll be presented to her She's been a real teacher for me and I think for a lot of us I I did not always have the easiest relationship. Dolly never suffered fools gladly.

[14:46]

And she was quite quick to point out to me when I was veering into the territory of foolishness. or egocentricity and yet you know our family and her really turned towards each other and we've had a long time with her teaching us you know two and a half years which is longer than you get usually with a person with pancreatic cancer and it was just it was great she really was some in our family. And Sylvie went up to see her briefly yesterday because she said, I didn't really want to go, but I knew I would regret it if I didn't.

[15:50]

And those edges, at least between us and I think for many of us those edges softened a lot with her illness and they really softened in the last few weeks and when she was in discomfort and distress it never felt like it was projected out It just felt like she knew it was her distress. And she could set limits for how much help you could give her. But she was pretty open. And that's a compelling argument for her understanding and for how she was a teacher. And I think I'll always be grateful for that.

[17:10]

I'll never forget it. I was looking I was remembering this morning that section towards the end of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, I think it's called Nirvana, The Waterfall. People remember that? Just thought I'd maybe read a section of that. I went to Yosemite National Park and I saw some huge waterfalls. The highest one there is 1,340 feet high. And from it, the water comes down like a curtain thrown from the top of the mountain.

[18:14]

It does not come down swiftly as you might expect. It seems to come down very slowly because of the distance. And the water does not come down as one stream, but is separated into many tiny streams. From a distance, it looks like a curtain. And I thought it must be a very difficult experience for each drop of water to come down from the top of such a high mountain. It takes time, you know, a long time for the water finally to reach the bottom of the waterfall. And it seems to me that our human life may be like this. We have many difficult experiences in our life. But at the same time, I thought the water was not originally separated, but was one whole river. Only when it is separated does it have some difficulty in falling. It is as if the water does not have any feeling when it is one whole river.

[19:19]

Only when separated into many drops can it begin to have or express some feeling. When we see one whole river, we do not feel the living activity of the water. But when we dip a part of the water into a dipper, we experience the feeling of the water. And we also feel the value of the person who uses the water. So the water begins as one river and then falls through something that we call our human life. And it's something, you know, it's a whole curtain of water. So it's something we're doing together and it's something we're doing independently. And then when the water returns to its original oneness with the river, It no longer has any individual feeling to it. It resumes its own nature and finds composure.

[20:24]

How very glad the water must be to come back to the original river. If this is so, what feeling will we have when we die? I think we are like the water in the dipper. We will have composure then, perfect composure. It may be too perfect for us just now, because we are so much attached to our own feeling, to our individual existence. For us, just now, we have some fear of death. But after we resume our true original nature, there is nirvana. That is why we say, to attain nirvana is to pass away. To pass away is not a very adequate expression. perhaps to pass on or to go on or to join would be better. Will you try to find some better expression for death?

[21:26]

When you find it, you will have quite a new interpretation of your life. So I was thinking about this a bit yesterday as It's like you could almost see the process of return happening and kind of withdrawal from senses. I remember, some of you might have been there, a conversation with Fran, I think it was when we gave her the brown robe and she said something like, well, the skandhas are breaking up. And that's, you know, all those consciousnesses were stepping back.

[22:29]

And then, you know, Dali, she was there in bed. She was breathing. She was alive. Her eyes were opened. And you had the feeling that she wasn't seeing so much or not registering it or hearing. And it's like stepping back from the forms, feelings, perceptions, consciousness, you know, standing on the banks of the river or maybe beginning to wade in. It's just a great mystery. So, here we are at the beginning of this four-week period. Most of us in here are involved in aspects of practice and we've had a really, this is like a major aspect that's come up from the start.

[23:38]

the theme that we were in conversation with Sojan that thinking of exploring as much what Ron brought up yesterday it's really how how do our these lives that we see as separate our practice life and our our life in the world our life in the family or life of our individual mind how do they interpenetrate each other. And that's what I think we're going to explore from different angles. With Dali, it was really clear. you got to the point where there was no separation.

[24:41]

With some of us, you know, there's still a separation. It's like Ron was talking about yesterday. How is it we can do this beautiful ritualized life of sitting zazen and doing service and listening to talks, giving talks, you know, and then we go home and feel somewhat crazed about the work that we have to do or the way someone is behaving or the dishes that are piling up. And you can step right out of here into that. But I think it's really important to acknowledge that both those seeming sides affect each other. There's a line, what Ron said yesterday was the approach to working with this is mindfulness.

[25:50]

And there's a line, is it the Jewel Mirror Samadhi? If you can achieve continuity, this is called the host within the host. Is that where it's from? It's a really big challenge if you can achieve continuity. This is called the host within the host. Continuity means just this stream of mindfulness from moment to moment. And even where you step outside for a moment or a hair of an instant, you come back in. within the host is, if you can achieve this kind of continuous mindfulness, you can take care of everything, and everything takes care of you. There's no host or guest.

[26:57]

There's no self and other. There's just the whole work's unfolding. And that's our objective. That's the point of practice. And we work at it in different ways. I really find Zazen very helpful. When I find myself in trouble, that's what I tend to do. I tend to sit down. And it's helpful throughout my life in finding some balance. There's this other quotation from Suzuki Roshi. I may get it... not quite right. What's it? The book, To Shine One Corner of the World? It's the great... I think of it as the great Suzuki Roshi bathroom book. But there's a... I came apart a part I hadn't seen.

[28:03]

Something like... Life without Sazen is like winding your clock without setting it. It runs perfectly well, but you're never on time. You're on time twice a day. Is that true? I don't think so. No, if it's running. Oh, if it's running. If it's running. It's a heckler. Yeah. No, it just runs. But, you know, it doesn't tell time. And it goes along with this other adage that I may have told this before.

[29:08]

Please excuse me. It was a long time ago. It was probably 10 or 11 years ago. Master Sheng Yan came here, a Chinese Chan master who has places in Taiwan and has a center in Queens. And he visited and gave a talk and was questioned and answered. And Lori asked him, you know, fairly, you know, almost cliched said question, except when she asked it, it was not a cliche. It was a real question. It was urgency behind it. And she said, you know, what's the most important thing? And he said, the most important thing is to regulate your life. So regulating your life is also both seeing and expressing the continuity.

[30:15]

It doesn't mean necessarily making your life rule-bound, but just seeing it and reining in our desires you know, our angers, seeing that as human and not giving it full sway. And really, I feel like we really watched Dolly regulate her life when she, you know, her intention was to come down when she could, and she did that all that she could. When she couldn't, she drew back. You know, she wasn't, she knew kind of what her boundaries, what her energy was calling for and paid really close attention to her energy.

[31:18]

And sometimes that included despair. But always it was in the, it was in the territory of regulation. So that's something that people could think of, think about. And as we explore in these next four weeks, these various aspects of practice, you know, it means exploring aspects of your life in the Zen Do and, you know, how we do things, why we do things, what they're about, but also your wider life and seeing the continuity between them, you know, taking advantage of this kind of laboratory of Zazen to really help your wider life and to help all beings.

[32:21]

So I'd like to invite you in that spirit to really create a clear intention for yourself for the next four weeks. It can be pretty modest, you know, or it can be as big as feeding all the hungry people or stopping the war. That's another weight me, and I think a number of us, you know, is this approaching dreadnought of war. And how do we... It's another great mystery. How do we encounter it? How can we create peace?

[33:24]

From what basis? From what strains? And I think that's another long discussion, another study and talk. But it's part of the climate that we are existing in today as well. And yesterday, actually, Dolly was asking about the peace marches. that were going on in the city. So clarifying an intention, whether small or grand, is something I invite you to do and I really invite you to take advantage of

[34:30]

the people who are serving as practice leaders, Richard, Mary, myself, David, Rebecca, Raoul, I forget, Ross, who will be back, I think, tomorrow or the next day. What? Tomorrow, yeah. So talk about that with one of the practice leaders and think about it yourself. One of the ways I think that we can generate continuity and help regulate our lives is by really sharing with each other. So we'll have some opportunity to do that this afternoon. I think the format of the classes that we're going to do are going to be more much more kind of discussion oriented than the transmitting of information or a particular text.

[35:43]

It'll be much more kind of horizontal. And that's something that we can do with each other. There's a lot of wisdom in this room. A lot of people who know how to take care of each other and take care of themselves. And that's what we're trying to cultivate. You know, in this time when we've leapt off, you know, that high cliff and we're just slowly floating down like a great curtain, many droplets of water. Well, we're between the river at the top and the river at the bottom. We have an opportunity to help each other, which maybe the waterfall doesn't.

[36:47]

I don't know. Never having been that in my memory, maybe they do too. But we certainly can. So I think I'll end there. If you have any thoughts or questions to share, we have a few minutes for that. Thank you. I have a question for Dolly about the talk in the last two and a half years about facing death. She did, didn't she? It seems to me that she did not so long ago. I can't, you know, I actually can't remember. She was quite reticent to give talks. She really had to be pushed to do it. I think it's been more than a year. Maybe so. I asked her a couple of months ago if she would do one.

[37:49]

Yeah. I probably, I looked. Ed? I was just going to say, remember she gave a talk about sort of the process that she had gone through with the diagnosis and treatment? And that was a while back, right? Yeah, that might have been. My memory is that. Last year when we did aspects of practice with this time that she gave. One of the classes she did. Right, right? Yeah, it was really well. I remember it. She was surprised by how well received it was and appreciated. You know, she's very modest about her understanding and also so, you know, so particular.

[38:51]

You know, she had high standards. And so you really had to push her to teach in that way. On the other hand, she was teaching all the time. I mean, of all the people, I can't think of anybody, I can't think of anybody who was more friendly to people who came. You know, she'd just make a point of introducing herself and welcoming them and she really served as a great first connection for many people and was very concerned that we'd be, we'd have a warm face, which we don't always. The first time I met Dolly was Aspects of Practice last year. And I signed up for a class and also signed up to do a practice session with her. And she's the first person who I've ever said my name out loud here. And I can remember that.

[39:53]

I've been thinking about her a lot lately because Aspects of Practice is happening again. And it sort of went downhill from there because I kept calling her Donnie. Every time I'd see her, I'd say, oh, Dottie. And she just, I mean, what you said about she doesn't suffer for it lightly. And then my practice session, I sat on her porch for 40 minutes, and she came downstairs and said, what are you doing? And I said, I'm waiting for practice session. She said, that was two days ago. So things sort of, you know, I sort of really felt like a fool a lot. But it's interesting, her talk that she did, the first thing she did, I was just bored to death. and I just about slept through it, and I thought about her so much in the last year because now it's starting to make sense, and I remember her enthusiasm now, and I remember then I thought, why is she so excited about talking about this guy? And it's just, she's been on my mind a lot later because I didn't come to any more after that one, you know, that last year, but she's really been on my mind a lot later because I thought, wow, it's really different now.

[40:59]

those things I have a little more interest in. Thank you. Mary? It seems like she was, she was the mom around here. And it wasn't simply with new people, that people, there are people here who kind of come and go, and they're gone for a while. come back and so on, and somebody like that told me that Dolly kind of kept track of them, and actually sent a postcard. They didn't feel guilt-tripped or anything, they just felt included, and this postcard showed, I guess it was, I don't remember anyway, it was one empty, there was an empty space, and there was this little X, and it said something like, this is your place. We miss you, love, Dolly, or something like that. And I think she did that a lot. She just kept track of us.

[42:02]

She really did. She kept people in mind. And she had a long history. You know, she lived here. She lived in Dwight Way. Did you live with her? She was there. And then I remember when I first came, she would come out for rohatsu. And I was just always impressed that this person would come from either from D.C. or from Cleveland, you know, and she'd come and just felt like she was just right at home, you know, and then she did decide to make this her home. Well, you know, a little bit of Dolly's life at Time Inc., you know, she worked for Life magazine for many years. rubbed off on her because when she came back here from New York, she took a series of photographs of our temple that are now in that collection of cards that we sell.

[43:12]

So she is the artist that did that. And they're all beautiful images. What also rubbed off was she had a fierce red pencil as an editor. A fierce red pencil as an editor. It was pretty good. You know, even last week she asked me to write, I mean, some of you saw that notice on the bulletin board about her condition. And so she asked, could you write something? You know, I wrote something and I thought she should check it through and she just had She had a bunch of small, but really to the point, editorial corrections. Which was good. You mentioned that you said she had started to fool slightly, and that's been said several times, and you referred to the poem, The Precious Mirror, over there's a line.

[44:23]

Well, she suffered us more freely as she went on. I could never figure out, you know, she would come home for dinner and, you know, our house, as some of you know, it can be kind of chaotic. You know, and I would be listening to it and think, God, this is a little embarrassing. But it didn't much faze her. And if it did, she would say, Alexander, be quiet. You know, and then he would listen and take events. But she suffered that, she suffered foolishness, gladly.

[45:34]

I was thinking about what, about, she was cranky. No. And she got the less cranky, I think. Right. And I was thinking about that she didn't, what I think she got better at, she was suffering foolishness better. I think that's what I would say. I think it was before you came in. Right. She was less hard on herself. Yeah. There was a time I lived with her for a few weeks in the end of 97 and we did Thanksgiving dinner together with some other people. And she had a little flare up during the dinner. And then the next morning she came to me and she was speeding herself up about it. Maybe it was even that night after people left.

[46:35]

She really, really felt terrible. And it was, you know, you could see from the way she talked how hard she was.

[46:43]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ