hold a person is not intimate. To reject them is not intimate. To rebel against them is not intimate. To submit to them is not intimate. But to enter into a dynamic dance with them, to be working with them intimately and thoroughly and plainly and with some sense of awe, Some sense of awe with these forms. Some sense of awe with your aureole. Some sense of awe with your robe. Some sense of awe with your posture. Some sense of awe with the schedule. But not so awesome that you necessarily spend weeks in bed. Because it's so awesome. But I'm not saying... I'm not saying that spending weeks in bed because it's so often is never going to happen on the path of some person that attained intimacy with these precepts.

[01:06]

Somebody might actually feel so awestruck by the possibility of intimacy that they hide in their room for weeks. And then finally they come out of their room and they go and they meet. The intimacy, the awesomeness, the selflessness which is provided by these forms It's awesome, but it's also, you know, very sweet. For example, when I put my okesa on, the form which I understand, which is kind of that's been transmitted by my teachers, is to kneel on the floor or on the ground. to kneel and put it up on my head before I put it on. When I do that, it's actually quite sweet because I'm actually like, well, first of all, I'm lowering myself, which is kind of sweet.

[02:10]

Second of all, I'm making a special effort in relationship to this robe. Third of all, I'm doing what my teacher did. And I feel my teacher's body It's very sweet. And I feel Tassajara. When I'm at Tassajara, I feel Tassajara. And I also miss Tassajara. I long for Tassajara. It's a very poignant feeling for me to just kneel and put the robe on. I also feel San Francisco. I feel the 30 years of my practice. I feel Japan. I feel a lot when I just do that. It's a very nice feeling. But also it's inconvenient often. It's often inconvenient, and the older I get, the more inconvenient it's probably going to be, unless I just stay down on the floor. Usually, I walk over to where... crawl over to where the rope is. I'm not usually sitting. Maybe I'll explain it that way. I'll just stay sitting all the time, and people can bring me the rope, so I don't have to go down. Usually, I'm standing. I get the rope, then I have to go down, and then I have to get up.

[03:12]

It's not that convenient. It's more convenient just to walk over, take off the shelf and put it on. That's more convenient. But it's not as sweet and it's not as selfless and it's not as humbling. It is not as intimate as me to kneel and in that way make an attempt to become intimate with this form. which I didn't make up. Somebody probably made it up at some point, you know, maybe Buddha made it up. But anyway, it's just raise it up, lower yourself, put it down, and then... But sometimes, you know, maybe nobody is in the cabin with me watching how... Or maybe I do it standing up. Because it's just too inconvenient. Now, in fact, if I have to somehow, I don't know what, if I have to put my Royal John out in the parking lot, then I might go over and kneel in the dust.

[04:21]

But I might go over and kneel in the grass. I don't know. It depends. If it's wet, I probably won't. Some situations, you need to go real dirty to kneel, so you don't. But still, are you saying, oh, goody, any excuse not to make the effort of a little bit more wear on my knees? If so, I feel it in myself. See, there is that feeling, ah, good, it saved me a little time here. A little time so I can go do one more thing, un-intimately. There are many opportunities. practice. There are many opportunities like this in lay life, but in lay life and monastic life, but particularly in lay life, you have to, like somebody said, I think Melissa, you have to set this stuff up. In lay life, you may not even notice that there's regulations and rituals. You have to think of them, and you have to get somebody to come and help you work on it.

[05:23]

I used to walk in shashu like this when I was, you know, And certain priests told me, no, you don't have to do quite so high. Relax a little bit. So you can get two, too. I guess what I would like is if we would all kind of like come up and meet this thing, this thing of the precept of sustaining regulations and rituals. That each of us would, in our own way, do that, and each of us would have somebody or more than one person who we express that we really want to work on this and that we're making ourselves accessible to somebody about how we're working on this, and maybe somebody else has made themselves accessible to you about how you're working on this, and that person can

[06:32]

That person can come to you if they see you veering off from the form or doing the forms, or they're wondering about that you invite them to come and talk to you about that. Like those drivers, you know, they have that thing on the back of their truck that says, 1-800 and so on. How's my driving? You just have this thing on your forehead. 1-800. How's my, you know, this? The realization of selflessness, okay? You need other people to help you. So the first pure precept is very interactive, and it has to do with discipline. Discipline. And it isn't a discipline you decide the discipline by yourself. You're not in charge of your own discipline. You're a disciple of something. It doesn't have to be Zen, but you need something to be a disciple of. You need some discipline.

[07:37]

We need discipline. We need discipline because we're selfish. If a selfish person takes on discipline, a selfish person can become selfless. Also, if you take on discipline the wrong way, a selfish person can become even more selfish. Some people, some selfish people take on discipline in a very rough way and then they take revenge on everybody else to be disciplined. And then they go around laying discipline on other people in an unhelpful way. But to voluntarily take on discipline and to work with it in an upright, gentle, harmonious, intelligent way with the help of others, which means harmonious. This can be the gate to the realization of the Dharma body, the Dharma body of the Buddha, the selfless, inconceivable reality of the universe through these forms. So I would like to, for the rest of the

[08:39]

work on these forms and try to find the most beautiful, gentle, loving, precise, honest, alert, attentive way to take care of these forms. And each of us have a different set of situations, different bodies and so on, but really work as a way to realize selfless practice. That's the first. Any questions before I go on to the second? Yes. You're asking, how is it that the forms aren't specifically described sometimes? Do you want me to tell some stories about that? My guess is that maybe maybe misunderstanding arises from saying, okay, now you have this rock suit, this is how you should take care of it.

[09:55]

But also, if I receive the rock suit, I never, how do I take care of it? So I haven't called the form because I don't know really what the form is. Well, once you have your Rok-Su on, the usual way of this little school is you bring these two little corners together, like this. Want to try it? Bring the corners together, and then with your left hand, take a hold of the thing brought together. Take your right thumb, run it along the back like this. on the right side of your body, okay? Yeah, that's right. Like this, like that, okay? Then you got it off that way, and then you take like this. So I'm doing this, in other words, I'm holding the top of the Roxy with my left hand, and with my right hand, I'm going to fold that.

[10:59]

Yeah, that's good. Turn it like that. Yes, okay. And then you have the bag. And then with your right hand, how would you say your right hand? Grab this part of the rock suit where the, you know, where all the material that's not white is. You grab like this. Okay. Your right hand. See like that? Put it on your wrist like. Okay, that's it, now. That's it.

[12:15]

You got it. You got it. Put it on your wrist now. Lay it on your wrist. Okay. Now you take the bag and you just slide it. You pull it into the bag like this. Okay. So you got the bag. Open the bag and just slide it in like that. Okay. And then you just reach inside there and hold it and you pull your hand like that. So you got it in the bag. Okay. Taking it out of the bag, same thing. Reach in. Like that. And then take it up and put it on your head. Join your palms. And of course, if it's the first time in the morning, you do the rogue chant. Later times during the day, you can do the rogue chant or not. You don't have to. Just put it on your head. Take it down. Now don't just drop it like I just did, but lower it with your hand. Then turn the thing like this and put it on your head. That's a form. If you want to change it from that form, form headquarters, and see if it's a creative move that seems good, maybe it's okay.

[13:28]

But that's just awkward to you, and do that one until you think of something better. And if you think of something better, don't just make the decision all by yourself. You don't wear the rock suit in the toilet or in the bathhouse. Leave it outside the toilet in the bathhouse. You can wear it like if you're doing office work or something, or paperwork. It's okay to wear your rock suit. You can wear it when you study, wear it in Zendo, wear it in services. But don't do it doing heavy, dirty work. Otherwise you can wear it in a lot of different situations. So that's just a little bit about the Raksu. Yes? What about cleaning it? Cleaning it? There is a ceremony for cleaning it, and anybody who wants information about the ceremony of cleaning it, let Linda know. And I'll give you a little description of the ceremony for cleaning Raksu in Okesa.

[14:35]

There'll be another form you can do, which you can also learn how to do it. Okay. Anything else about this? Is there someone else with their hand raised there? Yes. We have a lot of forms, like you've been describing, for, I don't know, getting on the top or being on the zimbo and how to do those kinds of things. There's not specific... Yes. And so it's easier for me to see and become intimate with these other forms, and to see myself in relation to those forms. But when it comes to interactions with people, I get much more confused. I sure do. OK, well, there are some forms about working with people. OK, we have some. For example, we have the form of not talking.

[15:40]

in a social way, from evening Zazen till noon, the next day, right? That's a form of how to work with people. And then, how do you get intimate with that form? That's, all of you are working with that right now, right? Some people think this, some people think that, some people try this, some people try that. A form like that, which we haven't talked about, that is one example of a form. And we had a wonderful Bulgarian man who came to Tassajara. He was at Green Gulch first. He came to Tassajara and he tried to talk during that time because he wanted to learn English. And he said the main difference between Tassajara and Green Gulch is that at Tassajara you can't talk. But his point is you couldn't talk at Tassajara. Now, from some people's point of view, there's quite a bit of chatting going on. from 7.30 at night until noon the next morning. But from his point of view, there was no talk. There is a form, and people are observing it to some extent.

[16:44]

There is this form, but how to practice it is, well, that's it. But there is a form. There are many other situations where there aren't forms, though, interpersonal forms. Now that's, if there's no more questions at this point, that relates to the second and third pure precepts. You want to see how it works? This is how it works. This is conceivable how it works, but it actually works this way. When you become selfless, like I said, you enter into the inconceivable realm of Dharma. Inconceivable, selfless, interdependent world of ungraspable. which is totally liberating and totally liberating. Now, another thing that happens at that time is then you get into the second pure precept, which is the practice of good.

[17:46]

But it's pretty much, in the context of my discussion with you today, it's pretty much spontaneous entry into the second pure precept. The second pure precept is called the bliss body. And it's a reward for practicing the first precept. The first precept is kind of like, it takes a lot of effort. And not just a lot of effort, but also not too much effort. It requires finding the right amount of effort, and the right amount of effort is total effort, and total effort is not too much. It's just total. And so it's very energetic, hard work in a way, and fun work, but it's work. embracing and sustaining the regulations and ceremonies, then you get a reward. But it's also a reward, and it's a reward for your disciplined activities. And the reward is inconceivable bliss. It's inconceivable.

[18:48]

Now, sometimes it's conceivable. It's kind of like conceivable, what do you call it, offshoots of it, where you feel, geez, I'm really happy. But also this inconceivable bliss, which you don't even know about. And it's like it's suffusing your body and mind. Inconceivably. And it's going in there and it's like massaging all your all your selfishness, all your habits that are set up by eons of selfishness. It goes in there and starts massaging and loosening and molding and reshaping and making you into this very pliable bliss body. Until you become this kind of like putty in the hands of the universe. or hard putty, whatever kind of putty the universe needs, you become this thing. And then you naturally, after this absorption and the bliss of freedom from selfishness, you naturally move into embracing and sustaining all beings.

[19:55]

And the way you embrace and sustain them is that you allow yourself to be sustained by them, which is no problem for you now because you're very comfortable. in an inconceivable way. You don't even necessarily notice that everybody's getting you to be the way they want you to be so that they can use you to get access to selflessness. You don't even notice it. You don't have any forms for this, because it's so inconceivable and so highly dynamic. And you cannot have any forms for how to do this, because people may want you to violate People may want you to, you know, grow your hair out or shave your hair, your eyelashes or, you know, you don't know what they need, but whatever they need, they'll get it. But this isn't the form realm anymore. But this is like intimacy in action. So the third one is like very active or totally not active if people need you.

[21:00]

You're not active. You need to be active, you're active. You're whatever people and plants and mountains and rivers need you to be. And you become able to be that because you're so happy. It doesn't matter that much to you. If they want you to go to hell, okay. If they want you to go to heaven, alright. If they want you to be a hungry ghost, you know, fine. You can take whatever form is appropriate to enter the realm where you respond appropriately. Respond appropriately. But we do have some forms. But the forms, you don't need very many forms. Just one form interpersonal or non-interpersonal. One form that you do completely with intimacy opens the gate of selflessness. Then you enter into this spontaneously and making yourself accessible to beings. So we can have a few more forms if we need them, but it's without necessarily increasing the number of forms we have, which we could do and maybe get too many forms, we have a few already. If we could do those intimately, we may be good enough.

[22:01]

Because I've noticed myself that there's quite a few which I still haven't really become intimate with. I have a few more to work on myself. Maybe some of you do too. Looks like it. So maybe with the ones that we do more thoroughly, we may find that that leads us to a realm inconceivable happiness where we find suddenly we're more flexible and we meet people more spontaneously and appropriately out of that realm where there are forms and where we move really thorough with them. And I think that does happen in Zen centers. You have a period of time where people really work on the forms, you know, like during sessions or something. They really get into the forms and finally settle with them. They experience some release and then you watch them interact and they interact very surprisingly. They do unusual things, and it works. It has happened. It's wonderful. And then maybe they go out of that and go back into a period where they're not so intimate with forms, where they're less in harmony with the forms of discipline, and then they start closing down again because you start getting selfish.

[23:16]

Your selfishness starts cropping up, and you start resisting or overconfident. As your selflessness starts manifesting, you close the doors to the selflessness, the joy starts closing down, you get tighter, you can't adapt, and then things are tough again. So then you have to go and sit up and go back into the meeting with the forms and find your harmony, intimacy. You drop the self, drop the body and mind, and relaxation when that comes. You're ready to move in a situation, you're back. So round and round we go with these three precepts. The three precepts are indistinguishable. They're distinguishable, inseparable. They are different, but they're inseparable. As soon as you practice the next two. And you can't practice the next two, really, without the first one. You can practice the last one. You can embrace and sustain beings to some extent without really mastering the first one. In fact, people do embrace and sustain being intimate with any forms without being in any training situation where they're getting feedback from somebody about their forms.

[24:26]

People do pretty well. And also someone asked at this workshop, before I do this work with myself, before I really do my own personal thing, how can I help? Not only that, on top of that, but it's like, well, before I do this work of becoming intimate with the forms and becoming selfless, number one, I can't really help people very much, plus number two, I shouldn't be working on those forms because that's selfish too. Either way, from that point of view, people can feel totally like you can't do anything. ...to work on the forums, and before you work on them, you can't help people. But actually, you can help people before you work on the forums, because it helps people to see somebody who's not working on the forums, because it's a good example of how bad it is to not work on the forums. So you actually can help people anytime. If you're totally resistant to the practice, it helps people who are doing the practice, because they see, oh yeah, that's how it works.

[25:27]

It's really sad, but that's a perfect example of resistance to the forms and how miserable it is. Or overdoing it. Resistance can take two forms, remember. One resistance, one kind of form you hold back, the other one is you overdo. To be too enthusiastic about the form is a resistance. Does that make sense? Well, the form itself, you know, is like the form of joining your palms. Okay? The gassho. The palms join. That's a form. Nobody knows exactly what that is, but there is this form, right? If you're too enthusiastic about it, you get too excited. You get somewhat excited and you get off on it by your over-enthusiasm or your over-excitement or your over-willingness to do it. You overshoot it.

[26:28]

It's resistance to doing the form. You'd rather be high in the form than just do the form. For you, the form is not that big a deal. The form is not giving you... I mean, now, if the form does give you something like, okay, I'm doing gassho, and it just happens to be the best gassho in Tassajara, then the form is doing something for me. And I feel, you know, I feel the best gasshoer at Tassajara. Because, you know, this is a pretty, this is a collection of, you know, National Center for Gassho, right? So to be the best Tassajara gasshoer for any particular practice period is quite an honor. But that's not the gassho. That's me getting something out of gassho. To do the gassho without even being like one of Some people, of course, if they can't be the best, because maybe, you know, some senior student's the best, I can be the worst at gassho. I'll be the sloppiest. Most disrespectful, you know, down around my abdomen.

[27:37]

If I can't be the best, I'll be the worst. That's another kind of resistance. How about just gassho? I don't know what it is, but how about gassho? Not something for me, not something against me. No gain or loss for me on this one. Just got show for got show. Just got show for me. And also, not only is got show for got show, but also, this is my got show for all you, and you can give me feedback on my got show. I also make that known. So just in case any kind of like, well, this is the best or the worst got show starts cropping up in my mind, it might show a little bit. You might say, hey, you look like you think you have the best. And you might say, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, not me. No, no, I thought that was just a regular guttural. I didn't think it was really that good. And then afterwards you walk away and you say, hmm, they caught me. I actually was thinking that was really one of the best.

[28:39]

I mean, I don't think I'm always the best, but that was a good one. And then somebody right across his end will say, wow, look at that. Somebody thinks that's a great Gus show. Look at that. Hey, hey, bub. Come here, come here, come here. I saw that. Or somebody will go, some really lazy, mean one. I saw you Gus show at her, and it really seemed kind of like, I don't know, it didn't look that respectful. How did you feel when you did it? And they say, well, yeah, you're right. You know, you're a stab in the gut. With a kind of nasty gashow. Of course, there's also not gashowing at all with people, right? There's that one. That's a good one, too. That usually hurts their feelings. That's another kind of resistance. Because we have a form of gashowing to each other under certain circumstances, right? Also, we have the thing about when we're wearing a robe, don't go around like this. Now, there are some times when it's very beautiful to dance like this.

[29:47]

It's wonderful. Maybe, what do you call it, mid-practice period. You can do that. And some of the most wonderful people walk like this. They do. And I mean, some of the best students. But still, I say to the such and those, I say, please, when you have your rope down, would you have your hand in shashu? And sometimes they say, you know, okay. Sometimes they say, other things. Part of the reason, Liz, why we don't give really specific details on these things is because I think we sometimes err on the side of friendliness rather than erring on the side of . Some people teach these forms. in such a way that the person you're teaching feels like quitting afterwards. Or they feel like, if you're into these forms, I'm not.

[30:53]

And as a result, we sometimes ask those people that cool it, The very people who would be very useful to teaching these forms in some sense in terms of their energy for them are sometimes a little too enthusiastic. They're overshooting the form. They're getting something out of the form. They're going to use the form to get the world in order here. So in that case, we sometimes set the person, even though they're the potential teacher, and in two or three or ten years, they'll be great. Right now, they can't teach it. Another thing is that As I think some of you know, who have practiced vipassana, in vipassana groups there's not so much form, right? You can go into Zen and sit down pretty much any way you want to, right? And a lot of people attracted to Buddhism are people who have really strong superegos, right? Have you noticed? There's not that many psychopaths in Zen Center.

[31:57]

A lot of people come here are really concerned not to make mistakes and not to do things wrong. So the problem of coming to Zen Center is that Zen Center, by having a form, you could potentially do something wrong very easily just going to Zen Do. Like one of the high administrative officials at Zen Center, when she first came to Zen Center, She went in a Zen... Oh, God, she just thought there's a million mistakes you can make. In a sense, that's true, I guess. I mean, since there's a way of doing things, you can do it, you can make a mistake. If the room has no form, you can just walk in and sit down, no problem, right? So some people who are very sensitive to making those kinds of errors and get criticized, they don't dare come to Zen Center. And Tassajara, in the middle of the practice period, the ultimate of that, if somebody came in here, some people came in here, they would be scared to death to go in that room. Because they would sense that, you know, and they do sense it. Isn't there some way, they sense, isn't there some way to go in there?

[32:58]

After all the people doing, isn't there some way? They want to know because they don't want to do it wrong. So, because people are sensitive to being themselves up or being beaten up in these forms, We sometimes can't talk about them as much as it might be good if they weren't so sensitive or more skillful Buddhas around here to teach them. Like whenever Suzuki Roshi came up to me and gave me feedback on my form, he was so skillful that I always felt like, oh, goody, you know, I'm getting some attention from my teacher. And he's making this and that, you know, little things here and there. We do this. He'd usually say, this is the way we do it. This way. But Alice felt like, oh God, I'm getting, this is what I came for. But he didn't do that with everybody because not everybody conveyed to him, I want this. I couldn't understand why they didn't, but they didn't. So those little things he did for me are called, you know, in self-discipline we have this thing called kirigami, which means cut paper.

[34:06]

A cover paper means that when the teacher tells you something, you're not necessarily in a lecture, or you're in a lecture where you're not supposed to take notes or whatever. Anyway, the teacher teaches you something, you just take out a piece of scratch paper, a gum wrap or something, you write down what it was. But some of the things are not to write down, just something that you feel, or something that's shown, some physical thing. These little things that are conveyed to you by your kind friend become these little... You teach to your students. The way Suzuki Roshi showed you to pick this up, then you show somebody else how to pick it up. And this physical thing gets transmitted, which is hard to write in a book because, you know, like, if I could have written a book how to do that with a Rahksu, it would have taken, like, I don't know, even with pictures and stuff, it's hard to get it, right? Long to show you. And I could have just come over and reached behind you and taken a hold of your hand and put your hand in a position, right?

[35:07]

So these kinds of physical things are very helpful when they're done skillfully. Now, if they're not done skillfully, they sometimes make it harder for the student and they react and, you know, spend a week or a year reacting. Actually, one person, I used to carry the stick when I was young. I used to be, you know, like kind of severe. If some of you have seen that film of me carrying a stick, you know, I was really severe. And I was in charge of the zendo. He wanted me to be severe. He loved it, to have that severity and strictness as part of the practice. But anyway, that was easy for me. I did that. And one time I hit somebody with a zendo, and she stayed away from the zendo center for 15 years. Came back after 15 years and said, I came back. And that one hit you gave me drove me away for 15 years. Another person came into Zendo.

[36:09]

And this is after I wasn't so severe. And came into the city center of Zendo. The altar's here. And the door's over there. She came in like this and walked. She was going to walk in front of the altar. And I said, excuse me. She was gone for three years. Because here she was, you know, she came in the room and this, whatever I was, this official, with all, who knows what archetype she saw there, thing says, you're wrong. That's the Buddha. You did the wrong thing with Buddha. You go that way. And so she's like, out. for years. But she came back and she told me. How many didn't come back, I don't know. A number of them did come back. That's part of what's going on. That's part of why we gradually work up to using the finger of God.

[37:13]

Good point. It's powerful what people come to see there and what comes back at them. They're seeing something very important the Dharmakaya Buddha, by seeing the vast selflessness, and when selflessness turns around and points a finger, it can be very powerful. So that's part of the reason why I'm so specific sometimes about these things, because I hope that now the practice period is one month old, and it's getting uncomfortable anyway, Starting to get cold. People are getting sick. It's getting tough. So let's make it a little bit more interesting by a little bit more attention to the forms. These forms as a way to kindly help each other and also kindly invite help and try to find out what the balanced, intimate way to relate to these forms is and see if you can find that place

[38:17]

Again, I talked to you about intra-psychic and interpersonal. It starts intra-psychically. You work with yourself first. You keep track of how you feel when you gassho to somebody. You look inside. How did that gassho feel to me? How did I mean it? Did I really give my respect to this person by that gassho? If not, then you know. Respect is part of intimacy. Did I overdo it? Did I give this person a little bit nicer one than I give to most people? You get into it with your own awareness of your own behavior and then hopefully, as I said, I would encourage you to have some person or people who are also invited to give you feedback It'd be nice if maybe somebody invited you, too, so you could also practice what it's like to say to somebody, excuse me, but remember what we agreed to do, and then when they don't want to hear it, and then how do you handle that, and that part of it, too.

[39:42]

Then again, if you can learn how to do it in Tassajara, then you can notice how when you walk out of Tassajara, you're going to have to set this stuff up. outside if you want to continue the practice because it doesn't come up spontaneously. This is something which is created for the benefit of beings which people receive and say they want to do. This is a precept which you say, now will you receive the three pure precepts? Yes, I will. You say, will you continue to observe these three pure precepts? Yes, I will. This is something which you want. people hear that you want to do it, then they work with you on it. We're going to have a precept ceremony. where people get a new name and the robe and receive the precepts and lineage papers and so on, so a full ordination towards the end of the practice period for some people.

[40:51]

They finish their robes. But now that I'm thinking about it, maybe we should have a precepts group earlier, where not so much everybody gets a new name and a robe and so on, not exactly the same form as a big ceremony, but where we just receive the precepts as a group, just sort of as a working basis for the practice period. And then you can sort of reflect on, you know, you wouldn't have to say answer Yes, I will to everything if you didn't feel like that. But I just thought to put that out to you. And I await your comments. If the group doesn't want to do it, I don't want to do it. But maybe there's a way to do it that everybody would feel comfortable with. And that might be, maybe now is a good time to start, you know, Rakvasats is... But it could be a little bit more specific.

[42:02]

For example, it could be where we say, in Rakvasats we don't say, now will you receive the precepts? People don't say, yes, I will. And then you don't say... So it could be a little bit more emphasis on commitment to the precepts rather than just reciting them. I'm not sure if we should do that. So I'd appreciate if you hear, if you have any... reservations about it. You can tell me or anybody about it. Aside from the ceremony, I would like to gradually get more intimate with each other around these forms. When it comes to that, I don't want you to say, yes, I want this, because in some ways, if I want this, part of it, I think, is to make it attractive and make it encouraging and to work on this in a way that people will want to do.

[43:19]

Whether you want to do it beforehand, you might not know. But I guess I would like to put more emphasis on this because I think it's a tremendous resource that we have here in this program. For example, ordeoki is one of the things the Zen Center has that many other groups, even Buddhist groups, don't have. It's a wonderful little opportunity to learn about how your body and mind work. already learned quite a bit about yourself, if not in general, on particular occasions, how your mind was operating through the orioke practice. You can sense your laziness, your joy, your resistance, your lack of presence, your judgmentalness.

[44:21]

almost every time I look at somebody else who does something in the zendo with their oreo, something weird, almost every time I look at them, I make a mistake myself. How dare you! So there's something about, you know, orioki is for you to, you know, work on yourself. It's not for you to judge others. And by working on yourself through this form, you do work on others. Orioki beautifully, it encourages others usually. Not if you work on the orioke thinking that you're doing it beautifully, but if you just do it beautifully because you're paying attention, usually your neighbors feel encouragement and the servers feel encouragement. The same with the servers. If the servers serve beautifully, it encourages the eaters. So this is an encouragement from your practice rather than you getting other people to do better.

[45:30]

They will. If they're inspired by you, that will help them a lot. But also remember that it's also inspiring when you're doing really a bad job. That's also inspiring.

[45:43]

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