I haven't heard from everyone yet, but a number of people have come and told me about their ultimate concern. And I was happy that Even though I had my own expression for myself, no one copied me. Even though I copied all the bodhisattvas, nobody copied me. That's good. When I think about ,, it seems like so far, anyway, the most popular expressions I see falling into two camps or two expressions.

[01:21]

One time I said to Suzuki Roshi, who are your disciples? I said that to him because he gave a talk and then referred to his disciples and I thought, who are they? I was particularly concerned whether I was one. So I thought I'd ask him. He said, He said something like, I don't like this, but my mind thinks like this, that there are two kinds of people at Tassajara. One kind are here to help themselves,

[02:49]

and another kind are here to help others. The ones who are here to help others are my disciples. I thought of that because when I thought about the two categories of response to what is your ultimate concern, I actually didn't like that my mind put them in categories, but anyway, it did. Because now I can tell you categories, something to talk about. So one major category is something like, my ultimate concern is unconditional love. Someone said unconditional, non-dual love, which is somewhat redundant. Anyway, unconditional, non-dual love.

[03:54]

Someone else said total compassion. Compassion. So those types of responses, quite a few people had those responses to my question. The Chinese usually use, which we usually translate as compassion, like .. Or we're often using people's names, where there's compassion in the name. If you look in the dictionary, it doesn't say compassion. It usually says love. And the other camp, or the other most is something like, my ultimate concern is whatever is happening.

[05:10]

or what's coming up right now under my nose to deal with. And so the categories, what I thought was categories, people's responses are tended, one category is like wisdom, and the other is compassion. So what I feel like I heard was two eyes of Buddha, two different eyes of of enlightenment. And in some ways, it's easier to talk about one or the other I rather than to talk directly about enlightenment. I think it's hard to say that. It's a bigger word, too. But anyway, I hear mostly those two emphases. And when I heard about compassion, I thought, well, some people are emphasizing the fruit.

[06:17]

The fruit of enlightenment is this infinite, unconditional love. Fruit. So they emphasize the fruit rather than the flower. In a sense, enlightenment is the flower. And the seed of enlightenment is the aspiration to enlightenment, the altruistic aspiration to enlightenment. And the seed, cause of that seed is awareness of suffering or compassion. So limited compassion precedes the seed of enlightenment. produces the flower, enlightenment.

[07:22]

And then enlightenment produces unconditional, unlimited compassion. And limited compassion, in a sense, you could say, doesn't itself or an individual person produce another seed, but it produces seeds in other beings because compassion helps other people feel their pain and be compassionate with themselves. So then their compassion leads to more seeds, which lead to more flowers and more fruit. So when I ask about the ultimate concern, in some sense, this cycle of compassion, of suffering, even limited, giving rise to the aspiration for enlightenment, giving rise to enlightenment, or giving rise to infinite compassion, this is a circle. And the response I've so far gotten is people picking up And the wisdom, picking up on the wisdom part of the circle, is in a sense between the aspiration and the fruit.

[08:34]

Once you aspire to supreme enlightenment, then the path to supreme enlightenment is simply what's coming up right in front of your face. And there's a few other responses, but those are the major responses. So everybody's sort of basically on the same, in some sense, circular path, infinite circular path. So the lotus is like that, too. The lotus seed. When it's put in the mud, it germinates and sends up a sprout.

[09:39]

It comes up out of the mud through the water and eventually opens into a flower. And as soon as the flower opens, the fruit is exposed. But when you pluck the flower, the fruit is ripe. And then the ripe fruit was ripe. The fruit's ripe. The ripe fruit then has done its fruit job. And then the stem, which holds the fruit up, because the fruit's done, the stem strength, which is holding the fruit up above the water.

[10:49]

And the stem goes soft, and the fruit droops down into the water again. And then the seeds swell and build up pressure in the fruit until the pressure is so great it can flow out of the fruit through those little holes and send the fruit flying into the air, flying back up out of the water into the air. And then as it flies out, it's been broken open and it scatters the seeds all over the pond and banks of the pond. And the seeds go back down into the earth again. And hopefully some of them germinate and grow up again.

[11:55]

So this is also characteristic of the practice. And the fruit is not completely available until the flowers of enlightenment in some sense have dropped. And the next generation doesn't get a chance and kind of loses its function and goes plop back down into the mud again. Compassion is your ultimate concern. You can start working on compassion right away, of course, because it predates your involvement here. You've already been working on it. But... Not but, and... I sense...

[13:06]

The weather is still good and it's not springtime. I sense a lot of affection here in this community among the people. And so in the realm of of compassion. There are three kinds of compassion. One kind of compassion is compassion that has an object. It's called sentimental compassion or loving view compassion. In other words, You see somebody over there, and you love what you see.

[14:16]

So you get into that arena that I was talking about, like loving your children or something. And maybe you want to love what you see, maybe you want to take it home with you, or put it under your wing. cradle it in your arms or maybe not possess it. But anyway, there's a lot of possible things. But anyway, you have a view of it. And you love it. You don't hate it. Love is a kind of compassionate object you don't hate. It's not hate. It's love. But it's this kind of sentimental love. We hope the best for the person, but they're an object. And that kind of compassion, because there's a view and there's some love in it, there's a kind of energy exchange going on there.

[15:32]

And you can kind of tell. One of the ways you can get this loving view is there's a kind of energy flow going on. Sometimes you might even call it energy loss. You might feel like an energy loss. Or it could be like an energy gain. You meet the person and you feel you're 10 feet tall. Is it? I've often walked down the street before. Suddenly, I'm several stories high. Suddenly, I'm several stories high, knowing that I'm on the street where you live. It's a sign of loving view, compassion. Not to mention, you might be on Tassajara Avenue where there's lots of people there.

[16:37]

Suddenly on several .. There's a country western song which goes something like .. Every time I drink, I think I'm 10 feet tall and boat-proof. So you can kind of get intoxicated on all the lovely people that are bouncing around this valley in the sunshine. Like I say, especially while the weather's still good. When it gets colder and rainy, this pattern changes somewhat. And that shows, again, that it's not unconditional love.

[17:39]

It's conditional. The sun hits the eyes at a certain angle, and suddenly there's love. But then when the rain is hitting your eyes at a certain angle, where did it go? Maybe it was a conditional love. And then there comes conditional hate after that. But conditional hate is not... of sentimental love. The condition of hate is hate. That also sometimes recurs in the moment. But, you know, sentimental view of compassion is not bad. It's not as bad as hate. Because it's a lot like compassion. Because basically you're wanting to relate and get close to the person, which is good. It's very similar to intimacy. But it's the touching kind of compassion.

[18:46]

It's not the turning away kind. It's the touching kind. So how can you love somebody and not touch them or grab them? Want to get close, very close with somebody without grabbing. to be free of the grabbing, and also be free of the, I can't be free of the grabbing, so I'm just going to get rid of them. Free of the grab that comes from the grabbing. Just being close. So circumambulating is good. Rather than touching or turning away, just walk around them all the time at the appropriate distance. But another way to relate to them is just be upright.

[19:56]

Just sit upright and stand upright. Don't lean forward into them. Don't bend back from them. Where is that place? That place where you're just there upright and where you're watching for the appropriate response. Bring wisdom into these relationships where you have loving view compassion. So there you are. And what is happening? So then if all infinite compassion is here, then also bring clear observation into the situation. And be aware of, are you leaning forward into the relationship or backwards, to the right or the left? Just be upright there.

[20:56]

And watch what comes. Watch what words comes. Trust uprightness as your guide. in how to relate with people. And then watch to see what actions emerge from that uprightness in your relationships. And actions that emerge are Spontaneous. And spontaneous things, when you act spontaneously, you act decisively, without hesitation, without reserve.

[22:07]

You're not holding back anything, saving up something for another time. You're not even giving all. You don't even think in those terms. But you don't even think of giving all. You just don't hold back. When we have reserve, we have the future and the past. and therefore we're afraid. So the way to realize unconditional compassion, unconditional love, is to act decisively without hesitation.

[23:12]

And decisively without hesitation is, of course, you don't even think that it's decisive or don't even think that you're being unhesitating. But if you try to practice decisively and without reserve, probably you'll sometimes think about being decisive and unhesitating. You won't be, and therefore you'll blow it. But if you don't act decisively and without hesitation, you will also blow it. However, the difference between acting indecisively and is that when you blow it, you're very likely not to notice it because you hardly did anything at all. You could hardly notice what you did. What happened? Not much. I don't know what happened. Did I do something? Was that me?

[24:17]

I won't even be sure. Did I mispronounce that? If you're going to say something, say it loud. If you're going to mispronounce something, mispronounce it loudly so everybody can hear precisely that your speech is slurred. As I ripen my something in the lower part of my jaw, which includes my tongue, you seem to be going down towards the earth. That kind of of my return to the earth is my tongue in my lower jaw. So sometimes I don't quite get the equipment up there to end certain kinds of consonants in the old way I used to. So I say shah sometimes instead of suh.

[25:19]

Slurred speech is starting to creep up into my mouth. Not too many people notice it, but I do. So one of the things I'm tempted to do is to talk more quietly so that nobody else will notice either. It's a little embarrassing. I don't look that old, and yet the equipment is gradually deteriorating. So I would encourage you, as a way to develop infinite compassion, act decisively without hesitation. In fact, when I say this, I both firmly believe that that's the way you really always do act.

[26:28]

And also that, not firmly believe, I guess a lot of people are frightened by that recommendation because they think, well, somebody might punch you, say something cruel. And that might happen, but we don't have punching too much, but people do say cruel things anyway. This will not increase the cruelty, I don't think. However, the way people understand me might give license to things that some people would have been wanting to do and been holding back from, but that they've been doing in a sneaky way anyway. So why don't we so we can catch these people. Or so if you're one of these people, so you can be caught and get your, what do you call it, therapy. I'm not exactly confident that we will be able to handle you if you start acting decisively. I think the mountains will be able to handle you, though, probably.

[27:34]

It's not that I'm sure we'll be able to cope with me if I act and you act decisively with no hesitation. I'm not sure. But I'm willing to take the chance. And I'm pretty sure that the other way is really a dead end and dishonest. Because indecisively is a decisive act. You decide to act indecisively. To act with hesitation, you definitely decide to act with hesitation. You definitely, right on the mark, go halfway or two-thirds or whatever. You get exactly where you hold back just exactly. You hold back 10% or 1%. And you can often feel exactly, I'm just a little bit holding back. I just a little bit don't want to do it. I'm just a little bit not going to finish. You know it. It's precise. You're always precise.

[28:38]

You're never, as I said, approximately yourself. You're always 100% approximately yourself. You're always 100% all lukewarm. And you know that about yourself. And I think people sincerely, not are sure, but sincerely consider that maybe it's safer this way. That if actually you came out, you might get in trouble. True, you might. I know a couple of people that are coming out of the closet. And it's not pretty. There's all kinds of closets.

[29:39]

Closet angry people. There's the closet sweet people. There's the closet weak people. There's the closet strong people. All the people who just think whatever it is, they grew up thinking, no, no. And other people said, yeah, that's right. No, no. Don't be that way. Don't be yourself. I don't want that. Get out of my face. Be a little tiny thing and don't make my life more complicated. They really didn't mean that. That's what they said. They were just confused. Actually, what they wanted you to do, it really meant be yourself. And they said it by saying, no, no, don't be yourself. And if you are, I'm not going to love you anymore. So we closed down shop. I said, OK, whatever. Because love is really important to us. Well, now I say, if it is, then start expressing yourself fully.

[30:48]

But not just sort of at random, but From uprightness, first always, always be upright. And then from that, you can witness this spontaneous thing coming, which is your next thought. And sometimes that thought leads to vocalization. Sometimes it leads to hand signals. or in arm signals, chest signals. In other words, physical postures are expressed from this thought that comes up. Not all thoughts lead to physical postures, but every physical posture is born in the thought. And thoughts are constantly born, lead to a physical posture, and some of them don't. But the physical posture still is is also being produced quite frequently.

[31:51]

In other words, if you count up the moments of things happening, sometimes the physical posture is not an act. The body's still there, but body at a certain moment when there's just mental karma. But things are changing so fast that in a second, there's still many physical karmas, physical actions. But there's some vocal actions, too. And when there's a vocal action, there's . And sometimes there's mental action without vocal or physical. But still, there's a lot of all of that going on. And each one is spontaneous from uprightness. And uprightness is also always going on. However, if you don't check into what I call uprightness hotel, you won't notice all these spontaneous things erupting from uprightness.

[32:57]

You won't be able to celebrate and appreciate the unfoldment of infinite, unconditioned compassion, which because it's infinite, it is unfolding through you now. And because it's unconditional, it can unfold now. But in order to understand that, you have to be present and not leaning in any direction in order to witness it. So someone who says, my ultimate concern is whatever is happening, that both tells you what to concentrate on, and it also tells you what to witness happening.

[34:03]

So you concentrate on what's happening, and also you see what's happening as the current emergence of your decisive unhesitating expression of unconditional compassion. And then you can also notice that if you veer away from uprightness, then your expression, from the point of view of veering away, your expression will also veer away from unconditional compassion and will slip into either hate or this object kind of compassion, which is also called lust or attachment. If you're not holding back too much, then it'll be easy to see the hate and the attachment.

[35:10]

It'll be easier anyway to see it. When I say this, practice is very easy. But when you're not practicing this way, you think it would be hard, because you have to get over the inertia of not being . So to get yourself back on uprightness is really hard. And you have to do it moment after moment, get yourself upright again and again. That seems hard. If from not being upright, you think about this, it really is really hard. It really is. It would be really hard. Nothing would be harder. It's not hard. I mean, it's not. You know that, don't you? So I guess what I'm recommending, hearing what your ultimate concerns are, strangely enough, what I'm recommending is to practice being upright.

[36:46]

Which is the same as to say, I'm recommending that you always work on one thing. This work on one thing, or that you make your work, that you appreciate that your work has one form. And that your play and your work, that your whole life has one form. The earliest name for Zen meditation was the one form awareness. or the awareness of the uniformness of life. There's something about life, no matter what's happening, it actually has one form. Being aware of that was the early name that they had for their meditations in Zen school. So I'm saying, I'm calling the one form today uprightness.

[37:57]

If you watch your life over time, you might say, well, now I'm leaning to the right. Now I'm leaning to the left. Now I'm leaning forward. Now I'm leaning backwards. But all those references are made in respect to uprightness. Whenever you lean to the right, uprightness is there. Whenever you lean to the left, uprightness is there. Uprightness is always there. You're not always leaning to the right. When you lean to the right, uprightness is there. But you can also say when you're upright, right and left, forward and backwards are also always there. So the spirit of uprightness is always there in your life. So the ancestors suggest that you realize that you should, what do you call it, be immovably devoted, unwaveringly concerned with that .

[39:26]

Always. And then again, in a redundant way, act decisively because that's really how you are. That's the way Dogen is translated. Total devotion to uprightness. Total devotion to upright sitting.

[40:28]

But his disciple Ejo said, total devotion to absorption in the light. All the Buddhas are totally devoted to uprightness, but another word for uprightness is light. And I mentioned this many times. Yuen Mun said to his monks, all of you have the light, but if you look for it, You can't find it and everything's dim. What is your light? And he answered for them and he said, the kitchen pantry, the front gate. Or someone said to me, pasta. In other words, it's whatever's happening.

[41:39]

But then he said, Later he added, I'd rather have nothing. Or even a good thing isn't as good as nothing. So whatever is happening, but it's not that thing. It's just that that's what's happening. That's why you work with it. So nothing's better. But antidote to making what's happening into a thing that you say, and that often happens to people, is if you ever, when you first find the meaning of pasta, or you first find the light in the kitchen or in the front gate, then you gate all the time. Or whatever you were using when you first could use something, there's some tendency to hold to that.

[42:55]

But you've got to let go of the most precious thing in the world. That's why Newton then said, nothing's better than a good thing. And you should always be concentrating on the good thing. In other words, you're always practicing goodness. And what is goodness? Whatever you're dealing with. The universe has given you this right now to deal with. But then, again, this is a good thing to deal with, but nothing better than this. Again, turning away and touching are both wrong. And don't make uprightness into a thing. Don't make your upright posture into a thing.

[43:59]

Is there any, is this, is what I'm witnessing here, is my, what do you call it, are my, are my, can't even remember. Are my, are my antennas, yeah, that's right, that's right, are my antennas, Are you suggesting something? Are my sense organs operating decisively and without ? I mean, are my unhesitating and decisively operating sense organs picking up unhesitating, decisive action from you right now? Is this it? Is this your unhesitating, decisive action that I'm now witnessing? Yes.

[46:17]

Scott? I'm confused. In the sense that, you know, Alan Watson's a kid about his dad's ambition to be spontaneous. Yeah. And he would say, well, either you're spontaneous or you're not spontaneous, but the idea of trying to act spontaneous is sort of silly. Mm-hmm. That idea of, well, be spontaneous. When you're talking about being upright, if you're upright, then it seems you don't have to act decidedly, but you just simply have to act. Right. That's right. You're welcome. And your actions will be decisive and without hesitation. And if you watch yourself act and you say that wasn't decisive, then I'd say, well, are you upright when you said that?

[47:18]

Check it out. Yes. You tell me where the problem is. So I sat down in a bed spot. Yeah. And I never got one. There's a problem with how I got that. Well, is there something you can do about that now? Well, but I... You don't want to do anything. I want to talk about my suffering. Okay. Okay. So instead of getting up and changing... Yes. ...a long time ago, For a variety of reasons. I don't want anybody to think that I'm a mover, so I just keep moving anyway. I didn't want to interrupt. I wanted to be polite. It isn't our form to sort of get up in the middle of things and plunk back down again. So we could say that I decided we made the decision to be in this area of discomfort.

[48:29]

But it seems to me there's a problem in how I decided to handle it. And I'm not sure. And it's around the area. And I'm not quite sure where the problem is or what. What might have been a more upright... That's similar to what Scott was bringing up. Okay, so what I'm suggesting to you is that as you sit there, if you are able to realize that you're... You were able to realize you're ongoingly making a day in somewhat that same area which wasn't quite easy for you to settle into. As you start to realize that you're kind of ambivalent about it, And you're not really wholeheartedly behind what you just committed yourself. And you might say now, am I upright here in this too? Am I upright about this decision to be in this position? And I think the answer would be, well, no. I mean, I'm kind of like not really even fully taking up my place here on this cushion.

[49:35]

As you go back and forth between examining your kind and your lack of uprightness, you start to become more and more upright. Until finally, you make your move. And then you move quickly to not move. It definitely could be to not move. And finally, you're settled. And you just decide, I'm totally committed to being uncomfortable here. And I know I'm completely behind it. And the spontaneity's there. You can't even decide that. It comes up upon you and finally you realize you're completely being settled in an uncomfortable position. You're completely behind it. You're totally decisive and you're not holding back at all and you feel upright. You set aside everything else but where you are. That could also cause you to loom up five foot six or seven inches tall

[50:39]

and sit back down in a different position and ask Meg to move over a little bit. You might also apologize when you did it, or you may not. You might not even limb up full of height. Many things you might do. The question is, is your action coming from uprightness? And it's for you to sense that. And again, It's a sensing kind of thing. Is the fruit of unconditional love sticky? Unconditional love can be present in stickiness, but the unconditional love is not sticky. That's why it can slip into sticky situations.

[51:43]

Usually, conditional love, oftentimes we hold back. We don't want to get into sticky situations. But unconditional love is totally present in sticky situations because it's not sticky. Unconditional love doesn't get stuck in unsticking situations. We generally like these unsticking ones, right? Yeah. Unconditional love is there. No problem there. And it doesn't get stuck there, though, because it's not speaking. No, it's not speaking. But it can visit stickiness. And that's why we say turning away and touching are both wrong. But sometimes, touching is the meaning of turning away and touching are both wrong. If you don't touch anybody, And don't turn away from anybody. You hold to that. You just made turning away and touching into touching. You touched it.

[52:47]

You got a hold of turning away and touching. And you go around not touching anybody or turning away from anybody. You make touching into a thing. You make touching into something which you're holding to, which is good. You make that instruction not touching and turning away into something you're with all the time. But if you make it into a thing, it's better to have nothing than that instruction. It's better not to know anything about Buddhism or ever hear anything. That's better than to hold on to some great Zen master's instruction. Not knowing or having any teaching is better than holding to any teaching. Even the best teaching, if you hold to it, is worse than not having any teaching. However, if you can use the teachings appropriately, then all of them are great and then they're better than nothing. Then they're all better than nothing. to a thing, any great teaching is the worst is than to hold to nothing. But just plain old nothing is better than any teaching if you hold to it.

[53:51]

So you have these two sides of your practice. One is you're always working on one thing. You're totally devoted to one thing. You're never distracted, ever. You're like the mountains around here. The other side is you're completely flexible and unattached. And you don't hold to any of your practices. Or you don't hold to this one. You don't make the one thing you're concentrating on into a thing. And balancing these two is our art form. And we make mistakes all the time and get off over onto, like, this is it. This is the right way. Or, hey, come on. Let's be lazy. But actually, it's lazy to hold on to something, too. That's lazy, too. Say, OK, got it. This is practice. And grab it. That's lazy, too. One form of laziness is overwork.

[54:57]

Yes? . You raise your hand and ask like that and get permission, and they say, you can go. No, really. Go ahead, go. You too, Tom. Come on. I'm afraid the rest of you are going to come. Yes? I've been being myself. Yeah. Well, I said regardless, actually, to somebody today.

[56:07]

It's not really regardless. It's in the context of, actually. So if you're upright, then you blink your eyes. Or you say, hello, or you raise your hand. Or you say, I love you or I hate you. Something comes out. And you watch. And you see, oops. It wasn't too good, actually. I guess I wasn't as upright as I thought, you know, because actually I kind of was still holding back. If you're really upright, you don't have any, don't grab the stuff and put it out. They pop out. So another way you find out that you weren't upright is by somebody else's response. They go, that stinks, you know. That stinks, Roberto. And then you say, hmm. It doesn't mean it did stink. This means they said it. But still, it might make you say, oh, no. The fact that people don't like what you do doesn't mean you weren't upright. It doesn't mean you weren't spontaneous.

[57:08]

But I'm saying, if you're upright, spontaneous, decisive action emerges from you, and it's always good. Always. And people may say it's not good. It doesn't mean it wasn't. It just means they said it. But a lot of other times, you're not really upright. And what comes out isn't really spontaneous, isn't really decisive, isn't really without hesitation. And people say, no, it's not. You know it's not. You know, actually, it wasn't spontaneous. I really was still in there messing with it. It didn't happen. That's not right. And they say they like it. That's interesting. I shouldn't say it's interesting. And it's not that you're the judge. It's just, in fact, that you are the judge in that case. You know that you compromised yourself.

[58:11]

You know you were leaning forward. You know you were holding on. You know you chickened out. You know. And they like it. Other times, you know you didn't chicken out. You know. And they don't like it. And the fact that they don't like it is part of the context that helps you understand that you, in fact, did do a good thing. And a lot of times, they'll say, Oh, yeah, actually, they change their mind the next second, you know. Or you say you're sorry. And, you know, it all works. But it's not really regardless. But as you do it, it's regardless in the sense that you can't think ahead of what's going to happen. I mean, you can't because, in fact, you can't. However, when you do think about it, or ahead, at the time you think of the future, at that time you could not think ahead of that action. The thought of the future is spontaneous and decisive. All things are, in fact, spontaneous, unhesitating, and things never happen any other way.

[59:24]

There's been never any examples of anything else but these kinds of things. The question is, can you tune into and join the actual vividness of what's happening? The way we are gesturing towards joining is through uprightness. If you just reach over and try to grab what's happening, make it an object, then you're leaning. You won't get it. You'll get some kind of dream of it. But by practicing uprightness, join this and become harmonious with this level of functioning, which is your true vividness. And then sometimes you think you do, and you find out you don't. But then that's good. That's an example of missing. Playing the game, and you miss a lot. But again, when you miss,

[60:26]

When you see that you're leaning to the left, you understand uprightness. When you feel yourself leaning into the future, you understand the present. However, if you're leaning into the future and you don't feel yourself leaning into the future, if you're in the future without feeling the leaning of it, then you don't feel the uprightness. You're just lost in the future. If you have interactions with people where you're touching them and your energy is getting inflated or deflated and you don't notice that, then you don't feel the uprightness. So you have to be somehow sensing your center, that what is always there. And by that, you can tell all these deviations. But when you tell them as deviations, the center is implied, and you're back home.

[61:31]

The center is always there. That's your resource. It never goes away. It's always there for you to use, to check in with. And that will guide you into infinite, unconditioned love. which is uncontrollably, untreated, vivid, and erupting right now, and dying right now. Things that are very alive also are very tentative, yes. Something you'll get or know? Get? No, you don't get it.

[62:38]

And know it? I mean, you know it, but the way you know unconditional love, you know the way you know unconditional love? Do you know the way you do? No, the way you know it is the way you know it right now. Do you not know it? That's the way you know it. The way you know it is the way you know it now. But this is not really knowing it. This is just, I don't know, all the different ways that we are. That's the way you know it. So what does he say? What is the purpose of going this trip to unconditioned love. What's the purpose of going on this pilgrimage to unconditioned love? I don't know. That's closest. That's most kind. The most kind way you can be about what unconditioned love is, is I don't know. I don't know what it is.

[63:39]

All I know is that's where I'm going. I'm going there, but I don't know what it is. This is called kind to it. One time I was giving a talk, and the word love came in my mouth. And I realized that I thought, since I was giving a talk about it, that I probably should know what it was. But I forgot what it was. It's like I knew a few days before, or a few seconds before, or I thought I should know. But then I realized, why should I know? Why do I have to know what love is? I didn't answer that question. And I realized, no, I don't have to know. Nobody has to know. In fact, nobody knows what love is. Nobody knows what infinite compassion is. But people go around and think they do, and that's what they think. And that's called not being upright. However, from uprightness, you can spontaneously, unhesitatingly think you know what love is. That can virus can come up in your brain.

[64:42]

It's OK. In its uprightness, it's okay. And there you don't hold to it. Say, I just understood. I just knew what love was. It was a peach blossom. It was... You know, that was love. But that just means that at that time when that was happening, I understood. It was happening, that's all. But it's happening all the time. Do you understand what I'm implying? I'm implying nothing. Oh, yes? It wasn't my distinction.

[65:44]

Well, it's good that you're mistrustful of it. Yeah. of the 20 Hopisal? Oh, it definitely does. Anyway, you're just like Suzuki Roshi. He didn't like thinking that way either. But he did. And so, this is not that you can't be a Tazahara and want to help yourself. It's just that you're not his disciple. Yeah.

[67:13]

In fact, He said you have to take care of yourself. Because the thing you have to do in Zen is you have to be yourself. He said that all the time. We have to be ourselves. Our practice is to be ourselves. The best way to take care of yourself is to be yourself. But he said this thing to me. But maybe the reason why he said it to me was maybe it was a message to me. And maybe I shouldn't quote it. But I did. And of all people to get upset about it, how come you did? Just kidding. Just kidding. Well, What strikes me is how good it is that you are disturbed by distinctions.

[68:26]

Not so much that it's good that you're disturbed by distinctions. I should say how good it is that you're aware of how disturbed you are by distinctions. That's really good that you can sense really drive you into some real upset. That's good. Because in fact, every distinction that's made in the mind upsets the mind. Now, if I come in here and don't make any distinctions, then you get to sit over there maybe and not notice how upset you are by all the distinctions that are happening in your mind. But in fact, all of us are constantly being disturbed by our mind, which is constantly generating distinctions. So fortunately, I came in here and talked about a distinction which somebody else made.

[69:32]

And I made a distinction in my head between wisdom and compassion. That's the one I distinguished. And if you distinguish between wisdom and compassion, it disturbs your mind. That's why I felt sort of bad to distinguish between these two categories of ultimate concern. But then I remembered this thing popped up in my head. And by putting his name under it, then this distinction is like one that you can't laugh off. Now makes this distinction that we feel upset. But then we say, I don't want to be upset. So what we do is we kind of say, well, this is not that big a deal, this distinction. And then we calm down a little bit. But really, there's a seed down there, which is somewhat dormant right now. distinction of the mind which is splitting. And now if we take that seed and we jack it up by putting Suzuki Roshi's name on it, then you can feel this fundamental split in your mind amplified, and then you can feel.

[70:36]

So it's very good. But what you're feeling is the nature of your mind. Not that Suzuki Roshi or anybody else is necessarily holding to that distinction. He said, I don't like it, but my mind does this. And you didn't like it either, but your mind did it too. So our mind does that. Let's check it out. Let's feel how that works. To try not to do that would be doing it again and would simply cause more disturbance. So you're acting on behalf of all of us because she's showing what is going on in all of our minds. To some extent, this is going on to all of our minds. When I say to some extent, I mean it's 10% in everybody's mind.

[71:42]

just simply discriminating consciousness. So thank you for being upset. Remember, thanks for noticing your upset and joining with Suzuki Roshi, who was also upset that his mind was working that way. What you're talking about, though, I'm not speaking to so much. I'm speaking more to the fundamental thing of that discrimination's upset us. And so while you're at Tassajara, you have a chance to notice that you're always quite a bit or a lot disturbed by the fact that your mind's making discriminations. Even if you're looking at somebody you really love, you know, you just feel like, you feel this kind of inflow of this positive energy at looking at them. Like I said to somebody, I don't know who it was, when you look at your kids, you know, like seeing your kids graduate from high school or something, seeing your kids go off to a dance or whatever, you know.

[72:55]

I remember one time I was at the beach with a Buddhist scholar, and there was a teacher that I knew about, and he was watching his daughter play in the water, and he said, this makes it all worthwhile. I didn't know what he was talking about. Anyway, he was really enjoying seeing this person splashing in the water. Not to him or to you or anybody, but I would say that even while you're enjoying watching this loved one splashing in the surf, the fact that they're an object is actually upsetting you. You may be so overflowing with positive energy at loving this object that you hardly notice Your mind's so stirred up with, you're so intoxicated, you think you're 10 feet tall and bulletproof, so you're not going to notice that actually deep down in your mind, you're split in two, and it really bugs you. But I propose that we are by the slightest hair's breadth of difference.

[74:05]

It bugs us. And in some ways, it's good to amplify it so that you can see it. And if you can see it, then you can work back to the source where it starts. Yes? Pardon? You thought a person was a subject? Well, that's fine. You can talk about it. For me, you are not a subject. I am a subject. You are an object. You are an object which I think is a subject. I don't think you're an object. I think you're a subject. I relate to you as an object. And since I think you're a subject, I think you relate to me as an object.

[75:12]

That's the way I think about you. Because I think you're a subject, therefore you're required to see me as an object. That's the way I see you as an object. And when I watch you, you look like a subject who's acting like I'm an object. And you seem to be subjectively enjoying me being an object. It's a nice game, and it's painful. Did you notice? It's painful. And if you're upright, that uprightness is the gate to the pilgrimage to unconditioned love. It's a source of anger.

[76:29]

It's a source of greed. And that is confusion. That is a definition of confusion, that you feel that that thing out there is separate from you. That's the root of ignorance and confusion. And anger and love. Yes. That's right. And it is confusion and delusion and ignorance itself because it doesn't make any sense and it believes that it does. It is the belief that what doesn't have substance has substance. It is a belief that the insubstantial separation between us is substantial.

[77:31]

It is the belief that my opinion is better than yours, and therefore I can be angry at you, or I can love you for having a different opinion. I can think it's cute. Whatever you do. When you see a kid in the water, you can be totally in bliss about the fact that this person is in the water rather than you. Or you can be jealous. Some people see their kids graduate from college and get angry. But they didn't graduate. We're capable of anything. Anything else? We are one intention, equally great, happy, and blessed, wherever we are, we will get it.

[78:42]

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