I have been invited to offer teachings at the time when we usually have a January intensive at Green Gulch. 19, excuse me, 2021. And I said, okay, so we're going to have a kind of teaching intensive. It will be very different from in the past. Came to Green Gulch, came down into the valley and sat through the storms and the cold and the dark together. So now we're going to offer an online teaching intensive. And the focus of the practice and study that I'm offering is the Lotus Sutra, the wondrous Dharma Lotus Flower Sutra, Sadharmaputra.

[01:21]

So since I am committing to that focus. I have been renewing my study and meditation and contemplation of the Lotus Sutra. In this process, I have come to consider Chapter 7. of the Lotus Sutra. Today, I thought I might talk to you about some of the inspirations and perspectives that have arisen in my body and mind about Chapter 7 of the Lotus Sutra. The name of the chapter in the translation from Sanskrit to Chinese to English is The Magical City or The Conjuring.

[02:40]

And if I go through I could go through the beginning of this chapter and just go through and try not to comment on it as I do, but I'm thinking that would really be hard for me, because I would be inspired to comment as I go. But I'm going to try to tell you the beginning And I'm going to not only try to tell you the beginning of the chapter, but I think I would recommend if you want to, you could start if you'd like to participate in the January teaching intensive. And, uh,

[03:53]

Today, I don't think it's practical to the whole Chapter 7. As a matter of fact, I don't think it's practical for me to even go through in detail the beginning. So I'm going to give you like a children's version of the beginning. The chant which we did at the beginning as we were doing it, I thought both surprisingly and unsurprisingly how relevant the chant that I chanted at the beginning, how relevant it is to the Lotus Sutra. So again, I'm not surprised because every time I chant that, it's always relevant to whatever I'm planning on talking about, and yet I'm still surprised how relevant it is to everything I'm going to talk about.

[04:58]

And now I feel like I should restrain myself. I'm getting kind of inspired now. And so now calm down, Reb. Don't get too inspired about this. But the beginning that I did earlier was I vow from this life on through countless lives to hear the true Dharma. Of course, that applies to the Lotus Sutra. I vow to hear the truth of the Lotus Sutra. So here's chapter seven in the children's version. Okay, ready? Once upon a time, there was a Buddha named great penetrating wisdom excellence.

[06:13]

Since that Buddha passed into extinction, since that Buddha passed into complete nirvana, a very long past. And then in the sutra, it goes into on how long ago it was that the Buddha, that this Buddha passed into Nirvana. So part of what the sutra starts out doing is inviting the reader, writer, or the chanter to go into, I don't know what to call it, you could say mind-boggling or mind-expanding investigation of

[07:35]

inconceivable time so at the beginning of this sutra Shakyamuni Buddha is talking and this Shakyamuni is not the historical Shakyamuni but you could say the bliss body Shakyamuni which more later also called sometimes the Cosmic Shakyamuni Buddha, is telling us about this ancient Buddha named Great Penetrating Excellence, who lived such a long time ago. Now that I'm telling you about this, I'm not going to go into the details of telling you how long ago, but basically, almost infinite distance in the past this Buddha lived.

[08:38]

And if you read the sutra, reading it might help you sort of like, I mean, yeah, if you read it, you might have trouble, I would have trouble, and I did have trouble reading through how long ago it was. And Some of us might even give up reading how long ago it was because it takes so long to read how long ago it was. But that's part of what the sutra is doing is saying yourself by reading this inconceivable language, this language of the inconceivable. So then after describing this inconceivable language, time since this Buddha lived then Shakyamuni Buddha but he lived such a long time ago but so here's the kind of the in some sense the what do you call it the punchline he lived so long ago but set up for Shakyamuni Buddha's little joke but

[10:04]

because I employ the great function of the Tathagata, when I look at this Buddha, it's as though I were witnessing this Buddha right now. Once again, he tells us it has been a virtually long time since that Buddha passed into complete nirvana. But because I'm I use the Buddha's powers. And when I look, I can actually look at that Buddha who lived so long ago as though I'm witnessing him enter nirvana right now.

[11:14]

One of the qualities of the Bodhisattva path is that it involves practicing in a way so that we can actually see the ancient Buddhas as though they were here right now. And then Shakyamuni Buddha goes on to say that this Buddha, this ancient Buddha who he can see right now, lived a very long time.

[12:47]

So he lived a very long time ago and he lived a very long time. And now he comes to the part of the sutra that has recently inspired me so much which is that it says this Buddha originally sat on the place of enlightenment. And then it says, after, some translations say, after the armies of Mara, And the word smashing is rather kind of violent.

[13:57]

We could say instead of smashing, lighten it maybe a little bit and say after subduing the armies of Mara. So Mara is... the head of all the various deadening forces of our life. Mar is related to the word marana, death. So Mar is the leader of the deadening forces of life. all the ways that living beings, not just humans, but all the ways that living beings deaden their life. He had subdued them.

[15:05]

This Buddha had subdued them. And the chant I did earlier, I said, I chanted that after meeting the true dharma, we will renounce worldly affairs. Worldly affairs are the deadening influences of our life. They're the ways we distract ourselves from the practice. And in particular, for this Buddha, They are the ways, the distractions from sitting on the seat of enlightenment. So again, this Buddha lived a really long time, a really long time ago, Shakyamuni Buddha tells us.

[16:13]

And he originally sat the seat, the place of enlightenment, after subduing all distractions from sitting on the seat of enlightenment. Or another way to put it would be, this ancient Buddha just sat wholeheartedly at the place of enlightenment after subduing all distractions from sitting at that place. And again, another way to say it is he sat on that place after turning

[17:20]

all distractions from sitting at that place into opportunities to sit at that place. After turning distractions from the practice of sitting at the place of enlightenment into opportunities to remember and sit at the place of enlightenment. In this situation, worldly affairs, the deadening influences represented by Mara, are the ways we are distracted from sitting like this Buddha, seat of enlightenment.

[18:23]

So in this Buddha's long life, this Buddha had managed to not be distracted anymore from where she was. And she sat there. But this isn't the end of the story. Here we have now the Buddha sitting undistractedly at this place of enlightenment. And then, Celestial beings come and offer him a seat. He was sitting at the place of enlightenment, but it was kind of coach class, I guess.

[19:30]

So then they offered him a first class seat of enlightenment. And he and sat on the lion throne on the seat, on the place of awakening. Another group of celestial beings started to rain celestial flowers down on him. And then another group started to play celestial drums, started beating drums in honor of his sitting at this place of awakening. And they continued these flower offerings and these musical offerings for the rest of his existence, all to his complete perfect nirvana.

[20:44]

Now this Buddha sitting at the seat, he was sitting there and he had gotten over all kinds of distractions. He had given up all worldly affairs, supposedly. But the Buddha Dharma had still not appeared to him. And because the Buddha Dharma did not appear to him, he, she did not realize unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. Anyutaira samyak sambodhi. He did not realize it because the Dharma of the Buddha. not appear, even though he had come this far and was sitting in the place he should sit. But even though it hadn't appeared, he continued to practice.

[22:14]

And he practiced sitting there for 10, I don't know why they say it, minor kalpas. Now, a kalpa is an eon, a very long time. but he sat for 10 minor eons, not 10 big ones, so 10 little eons. He sat there on this seat, up, off-legged, and unmoving. And I was talking to someone about this story who had read it, and he said, I think it took him so long for 10 eons because these deities were distracting him and hassling him with all these offerings. And I thought, yeah, right.

[23:17]

After we sit on the seat of enlightenment and are not distracted, by any worldly things, then we get a whole new set of distractions by divine forces in the form of praising us and honoring us. So once we're sitting at this seat, totally dedicated to it, into a long period of being tested by basically the whole universe, offering us opportunities to continue to sit. And

[24:26]

I've just briefly mentioned that he did sit for ten eons with these celestial distractions being poured upon him and sung to him and after ten eons he did finally experience the Buddha Dharma appearing before him and he did realize And that was the abbreviated version of the first chapter, of the beginning of chapter seven. Now, what I'd like to emphasize is now back at the seat to see how this seat is our practice right now.

[25:29]

This sutra, this story in this sutra, who is this story being told to? For whom is this story being told? I would suggest that this story is being told for us, to us and for us. What does this have to do with our life now? I guess what I'm suggesting to you at this point, long story short, that I hear the sutra telling us that there is not the slightest gap between that Buddha, inconceivably long ago, sitting on that seat, and right now.

[26:41]

Our sitting right now is not the slightest bit separate from that ancient Buddha's sitting. And everything that comes to us sitting on this seat, we could understand as celestial flowers falling upon us to encourage us to sit with that Buddha and realize the Buddhadharma and great awakening. I see this beginning of this chapter telling us that we are sitting at that seat.

[28:26]

That the practice that this sutra is telling us is that we have the same practice and the same awakening as and all Buddhas. and all living beings. We have the same practice as all the other living beings who are sitting at the place. And as we sit in this place of awakening, We are challenged by the celestial flowers falling on us. We are challenged by the drumbeat of this world.

[29:31]

Challenged to remember that we are on the same path and the same practice as all Buddhas. No matter what's happening, we are at the seat. No matter what, we are at the seat. No matter what we see, we are at this seat. No matter what we hear, we are at this seat. No matter what we are told, no matter what we are asked, we are at this seat. We are inspired to accept this seat, which is where we already are, and realize that everything that happens is reminding us to do the practice of the Buddhas, which is to sit like this even for a long time.

[30:44]

Even though we are on the path, which is the same as the Buddha, the Buddha's path is to continue to sit there for a long time. But we are already sitting at the seat with the Buddhas. So that's the beginning of chapter seven. The story about the magical city is towards the end. And someday we may get there. And yeah, I could briefly mention that the magical city is kind of offered to people who feared at the prospect of sitting at this seat for 10 eons. In our chant, what's it called? The Precious Mirror Samadhi, or the Jewel Mirror Samadhi.

[31:54]

In that chant, one of the lines says, when about to attain Buddhahood, did a treat for 10 eons. That's... That's referring to this story. When about to attain Buddhahood, one gazed at a tree for 10 eons, like a tiger leaving part of its prey, like white left leg. Another translation is like a wounded tiger, like a shoeless horse. Can you hear me? I think I made a boo-boo.

[32:55]

You can hear me? I have to, I accidentally pressed a button, which made me, there, now I'm back. So, I'm ready for you to respond to this story if you wish. Eileen, could you call on people if they wish to speak? Your phone is co-hosting and he will call on people. Linda, with an H at the end. Yeah. Hello. I don't see myself. There you are.

[34:02]

Nice to see you, Linda. You disappeared for a while. That's okay. That's interesting. To disappear happens too rarely. So I wanted to ask you if in our prayer of you, we are distracting you from receiving the true Buddha Dharma? Well, I guess I would say, yeah, sometimes. But sometimes I don't fall for it and I don't get distracted. Being praised or blamed, both could be Opportunities to remember your job or you could fall into them and like say, oh, I don't deserve that. Right. Or thank you. So praise is another thing which can make you not make you as an opportunity to remember your real job.

[35:04]

Wow. And also from this story, I can check when I have an impulse to praise you or adore you or throw flowers at you or something like that. I can check actually, what am I actually doing? Yeah. I think I'll throw some flowers at him and see how he does with them. Yeah, that would be just for fun. Now you're asking me a question. Yeah. Yeah. Your question is high-quality celestial flower for me. And then you can watch, how do I handle that? And I can watch, how do I handle your question? So all the questions that come to us, all the inquiries are coming to us sitting on this seat. And can we remember, basically, thanks for the questions. You reminded me of my work.

[36:07]

Thank you. Yeah. Okay. That was fun. That was fun. Questions are like, you know, you playing the Dharma drum to entertain yourself and all beings. All your questions are boom, boom, boom. Let's play the Dharma drum. Next is Grace Diamond. OK, Grace. Hi, Reb. Hi, Grace. The way I look at entertainment, do you look at entertainment as being kind of candy to sustain us during what would otherwise be bleak times? I was just trying to get the sutra down. Well, thank you for that Dharma flower.

[37:10]

And in a way, the name of this chapter could be called Dharma Candy. The magical city which the Buddha conjures is like candy for the students who need to take a break. This magical city is to take a break. The Buddha does break time sometimes in this incredibly challenging work. Right. But he offers it when people are going like, oh, I just can't sit in the seat anymore. Say, okay. Then he makes his magical city. And they go, ah. And then they rest and say, okay, you're rested. And then he wipes the magical city. So sometimes we do need a break. We do need Dharma candy. That's part of the deal. That's part of what this chapter is about. So the chapter starts with telling us, this is our practice.

[38:13]

And then at the end, people start complaining, it's too hard. And then Buddha says, okay, the fabulous city, everybody goes in, rests and say, okay, you're rested, takes it away. And everybody goes back to work again. So I think your question anticipated the finale of the chapter. Thank you. Next is Enrique Valdivia. OK, Enrique. Good morning. Good morning. It's afternoon here. Well, I couldn't see you earlier, Enrique, because your picture was your name was blocked off and I couldn't see who it is. You look like you're in the Colosseum in Rome. It's the background from a trip I took. Where is it, the background? It's at a temple in Bhutan.

[39:15]

Yeah, it looks like you're, yeah, in a temple. Okay, Enrique. Okay. having trouble renouncing worldly affairs and I've been kind of lost in distraction which is strange because you know due to COVID and I've had some health issues I'm not it seems like I don't I shouldn't be distracted you know I don't really there's not a whole lot going on but I find the opposite is happening and In hearing this story, I was, I'm wondering, is it, am I anyway, even though I'm feeling distracted? I read this story as saying, we are all on the seat with the Buddha. There's not any separation between that Buddha and us right now. However, if when we feel distracted, that's why I said the chant at the beginning,

[40:19]

if we do feel distracted and we haven't yet, if we can't understand, we can't believe and understand that we're already at the seat, then we should confess and repent that we don't believe it. That we think we're distracted rather than reminding us of where we are. Like, I often tell the story, one of the popular stories I tell which I'm allowed to tell, is my story of going to the DMV several years ago. And I was going to the DMV like the third time to get my new license because of various troubles I ran into of DMV losing my license in the mail, et cetera, et cetera. So my third trip to DMV, I'm waiting in line a woman way ahead of me in line calls out to me and says, Reb, hi.

[41:29]

And I say, oh, I see. Oh, hi. And she leaves her place in line ahead of me. No, no, first of all, she said, come on up. You can be behind me. And I don't accept her gift. So she gives up her seat and comes to talk to me. And she says, how are you? And I say, fine, except I'm at DMV again. She said, what do you mean? I said, well, and I tell her the story, which I, as long as the Lotus, which is the story that I went through to be a DMV this third time and everything between the three times that I went through. And now here I am again. And she said, and she looked at me and she said, you're here in DMV for us. So I was distracted. I forgot that I was sitting at the seat. I thought I was being distracted by being in line at the DMV rather than sitting on the lion throne with all the Buddhas and with all beings.

[42:36]

I got distracted, and she reminded me. But I had to confess, I'm distracted. I'm distracted. I'm not having a good time at DMV. I'm not sitting on the seat. I had to confess that so she could tell me. So the Buddha, in the form of this woman, could remind me what I'm at DMV for. When you're at the DMV, you're there in the seat. Yesterday, when I was waiting in the drive-thru at the pharmacy, and the person in front of me was sitting in their car at the window, for 10 minor kalpas. I got what I'm sitting in that car for. The sutra came to me and said, you're sitting at the seat of awakening in this car waiting to pick up your prescription. And I practiced sitting at that seat.

[43:41]

waiting for the car to move and let me come and pick up the prescription. But in that case, I didn't get distracted. I said, before I drove up there, I was already working on this. Talk to you about this practice. So as I was driving there, it was the same. You drive to the pharmacy, sitting at the seat, You write your postcards to encourage people to vote. Sitting at the seat while you write the postcards. You fill out your ballot and you take it to the drop-off box. But as you're doing these things, you don't move from your seat. But if you do move from your seat, then you say, oh, I forgot. I forgot that I'm at the DMV for all beings.

[44:44]

And I'm sorry. And then I was back. I was back doing my job at the DMV. I was there for all the other people waiting in line. But I had to confess. And you're confessing, so I can remind you that all these times when you're distracted, you're there for us. You're there to remember that you're there for us. This practice is also about patience. This chapter is about patience. It's about generosity. It's about ethics and patience and enthusiasm and tranquility and wisdom. It's about all those practices. And that Buddha practices and sat in that seat. However, we are sitting in the same seat, even though sometimes we seem to have to

[45:50]

apparently do remedial work, but it's not really remedial work. It's done at the seat. The Lotus Sutra is saying you don't have to wait. You're already on the seat. However, sometimes when some celestial flowers maybe are a little rotten, maybe sometimes feel like people are throwing compost on you. But you're sitting at the seat and you're to continue sitting there no matter what's being offered to you. We all want you to do that. And if you say, no, thank you, I don't want any more flowers, that is another opportunity to sit at the seat. Thank you. Next is Roma. Roma, please unmute yourself when you're ready to ask. Good morning.

[47:06]

Good morning. Thank you for teaching. First, I said you're teaching or out and just teaching. Thank you for teaching. I have a hard time to bring my thoughts, my feelings, my emotion into words because I hear everything you say. At the same time of hearing, I fidget to what I hear. I move to what I hear as though what I hear is beyond my capacity of.

[48:19]

So the offering of the teaching, what I hear is beyond me. And as long as I have a me, which I call that distraction, and the me is my thoughts, my feelings, my emotions, everything you talk about it. So therefore, as long as there's a me, this enlightenment is not in the realm of possibility. And I question that, why is this me me? sees impossibility. Now, why is this me, which is impossibility, wants to see what is beyond its own self? That's the question. Why is the impossibility, okay, the impossibility

[49:29]

is sitting at the seat of awakening. And that impossibility sitting at the seat of awakening is not the least bit separate from the Buddha sitting at the seat of awakening. The impossibility is the same practice sitting at the inconceivable, impossible seat. And the Lotus Sutra, I asked somebody to research for me, the Lotus Sutra says, I think 10 times in the Sutra it says, this teaching is most difficult to believe and understand. And the and this very difficult to believe teaching, when you feel that difficulty, the ability of this teaching, when you feel at that moment, you are the same practice and the same awakening as this inconceivable awakening.

[50:55]

So that's there. And if you You can confess your fidgeting, but also remember that the fidgeting is at the seat of awakening. Can the fidgeting actually be the seat? Can that be the seat? You could say that it is the seat. Yeah, you can sit. Your seat can be the fidgeting, yes. Yeah, yeah. If you're fidgeting, that's you, and you're at the seat. Yep. That's what I feel. That's what I feel. It helps my practice to be the fidgeting and be that seat of fidgeting. Yes. Be the fidgeting. and let that fidgeting sit at the seat because it is the seat.

[51:59]

It is the opportunity to join that Buddhist practice. Thank you. Thank you. Next is Anne Schulman. Please unmute yourself. something your picture oh there you are okay um so i hear this with so much joy um the the uh the the access to the um awakened state to the enlightenment as uh already here uh not mine but here is just great because I have a lot of distraction in the world. And this meets that distraction better than anything because it has love and vibration and freedom.

[53:06]

And so this is great. This is so great. And I'm startled by... The last practice we were going through together was about homage. Oh, we will pay homage to the Buddhas. And I'm just struck with these flowers raining down our own homage. Like we, if it's not dual, we are bowing to the Buddhas and the Buddhas are saying, and we're here with you. So it's a feeling of like arriving at a bid. Anyway. I don't know. I don't have any questions so much as just to tell you how important this teaching is to me. I hear you. And I just read that chapter and I got none of what you're telling. It's very clear to me that I need an interpreter in the form of a teacher to like sort of spoon feed.

[54:07]

This is what this is saying. Are you hearing it? Thank you. I went to the University of Minnesota. Not an eon, but pretty long. And I went to a humanities class taught by a poet named John Berryman. Kind of like Amazing being. He was so sensitive. At the end of each class, when the bell went off, he would almost die. He'd get so shocked by the bell. Anyway, he was reading. We were reading Don Quixote.

[55:08]

And so he actually opened the book and read it. And here's how I remember the beginning of Donovan. In the region of La Mancha, there lived a certain gentleman, rather over 40. And John Berryman screamed. Did you hear that? Cervantes isn't telling us how old he is. And I thought, yeah, I didn't really notice that. I didn't really notice that he wasn't going to tell us how old Kehote was. But the fact that he would see that as like, that was like being at the Dharma seat. How come I didn't stop and say, he's not telling us, he's not telling us how old he is.

[56:17]

He's intentionally not telling us. And so, yeah, we do need somebody who's lived with the sutra for 40 years longer than we have or 50 years longer. It does help to have somebody who's struggled with some text for decades and decades. The text is a resource to us. So, yeah, and I will tell stories about my struggles with the Lotus Sutra. And I'm looking at Linda. I struggle with Linda in the Lotus Sutra too. We've worked with this sutra. We've had problems with this sutra. It's got a lot. It's a mess. And so is our life. And our life is not the least bit different from the Buddha sitting on this seat of awakening. Thank you. Next is Jeff.

[57:20]

Please unmute yourself. I read it's actually me. Barbara Joan. Barbara Joan, yes. Barbara Joan. So in the story, the Buddha first faces Mara and subdues Mara. How do we know? Because I feel like Mara is what I face being in the world. of whatever Mara, all that's presented. What's the difference between Mara and the flowers of the deities? I mean, maybe one thought I had is maybe it's the... Like accolades and praise that come with time and age and success in whatever it is we offer the world.

[58:30]

But can you talk to that difference a little bit? Because I feel that I was so confused. hear that these are opportunities. That's so helpful to be reminded that the distractions which abound are opportunities to come back to recognize being in his seat. And so there's my question. If you address that, please. Thank you for your question. So I would say basically the the forces of distraction are not really any different from the celestial flowers. After you relate to the distractions and subdue them with love and kindness and sit on the seat, then when the same thing comes, it's like celestial flowers.

[59:35]

So before we can... Meet all distractions with loving kindness and compassion. That's what makes them distractions. If something comes, you know, if some deadening force comes to us and we meet it with loving kindness, it's not a success. It's actually a reminder. It was a stimulus for us to respond properly to it. However, if we feel that when something comes, we do not meet it with practice, then, in a sense, it's a successful mara. It's a successful practice. However, even while we're still not recognizing that all the distractions are really opportunities, even though we miss some of them, I'm saying that the sutra, I hear the sutra saying, We're already sitting at the seat anyway, because we're not from the ones who have worked through all these forces and met them with kindness and are no longer distracted by them.

[60:49]

As soon as we're no longer distracted, we're sitting at the seat. But if we feel distracted, then we feel like we're not in the seat. Sutra is not only saying that when you are no longer distracted, you're sitting at the seat, but even while you're distracted, you're still not different from the one who is sitting on the seat. And after you sit on the seat, then the same kind of stuff will keep happening. Now it's like celestial flowers because it's like, well, here's another opportunity to not be distracted from the seat. Oh, lovely. Another opportunity to not be distracted. Another opportunity for compassion. Another opportunity for patience. Another opportunity for justice. But before a certain level of training, we feel we can't do that. So then we practice with those.

[61:52]

But even so, we're already on the seat. We just can't believe it because we haven't learned how to deal with these visagers, these maras. So it's really not a difference. Yeah. The difference in how how we interpret the distraction and how we respond. That's the difference. You can see that once you learn how to interpret it, then there's no difference. But before you learn how, go sitting at the seat is what I'm saying. Yeah, thank you. The sutra does not make that point. The sutra does not make that point at the beginning of the chapter. You're sitting at that seat. But I'm saying it before it's too late. I'm saying it before it's too late.

[62:55]

The same practice as that Buddha who has done all that work of working through all those maras and coming to the seat. You're not the least bit different from that Buddha. One of the great things I learned from your teachings, Rev, is to include with it a sense of humor. So thank you. It's not too late as far as I can feel. I'm learning a great deal. All these distractions are really just a setup for the punchline that they're not distractions. But yeah, if you don't, if you, The setup, it's not going to be funny. It's just a setup. You have to feel the setup. The setup is not funny. And then suddenly you see, oh, it is funny. But you have to feel that it's not funny.

[63:56]

This world, the situation we're in is not funny. We have to feel it. It's so not funny. It's so, you know, not funny. It's really serious. And we have to look at how serious it is in order to realize what it's here to help us realize. So we can show other people this. Next is Linda Cutts. Thank you, Rem, for this morning's talk. I have a question about In the story, you said he sat for all those incalculable eons and didn't, and the Buddha Dharma didn't come to him. Is that what you said? I don't understand what that means exactly. He was sitting in the seat.

[64:58]

He was practicing. How was it that Buddha Dharma, what was missing? Thank you, Linda. You just brought up a colon. Okay. So I just want to make one small point, Linda, which is that he didn't sit for incalculable eons. Oh, small eon. Ten small. Yes. I mean, even a small eon is incalculable. but he only sat for 10 incalculable, small incalculables. So he's sitting there, okay? All right. So he's sitting there. That story from the Lotus Sutra, okay? And then we have this country called China. And in China, there was this school called Zen, right? Or Chan. Yes. And in that, and so one day, and this is a case, of the gateless gate, a monk comes to the teacher and says, great penetrating wisdom, excellence, Tathagata, sat for 10 eons and the Dharma did appear before him.

[66:21]

What's going on with that? And the Zen teacher says, your question points directly at the point. It's right to the point. So thank you, Linda. You just enacted the first part of that koan. How come? Why didn't it? And the answer is, your question goes right to the point. Congratulations. Then the monk says again. Say it again, Linda. How is it that he And small eons, and the Buddha Dharma didn't come to him, oh teacher. Yeah, that's the second line of the story. We just did it again, quite naturally, right? And the teacher says, because he sat for 10 eons and the Dharma did not manifest before, That's the koan.

[67:29]

That's it. That's it. And we will study that koan. So there it is. You guys, you're welcome to look it up. And let's talk about that koan after you've studied the koan. Again, the koan is, the monk comes and says... Great penetrating wisdom, excellence, Tathagata sat for 10 eons, but the Dharma did not appear to him. How come? Why not? And the teacher said, that's right to the point. And then he says again, that Buddha sat for 10 eons, but the Dharma didn't appear before him. How come? I mean, the teacher says, He didn't even say, I don't think he said it even because he said that Buddha sat for 10 eons and the Dharma didn't appear to him.

[68:34]

That's why. And that reminded me when I read that recently, people said, why do we have seven-day sessions? And Suzuki Rishi said, because we go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Right now, I feel like the was to just sit at the seat and to accept the celestial flower of the students' questions and to respond twice to two questions. Is that why you don't? Don't. answer why questions because it's not the point? Well, I've changed now.

[69:35]

I'm answering why questions. It's a new eon. Now why questions are the point. But if I hadn't spent eons not answering why questions, it wouldn't be funny now that I'm answering them again. Thank you, Linda, for bringing up why this story is a Zen koan. This is a Lotus Sutra story that it became a Zen koan. Thank you very much. Thank you for bringing the Zen koan. Without even knowing you're bringing the Zen koan. Next is Angela Nielsen. Angela, please mute yourself when you're ready.

[70:46]

Thank you, Yaron. Hello. Hello. I guess I'm sharing a lot of gratitude with all the sharing today and I'm feeling truly grateful and it helps me to accept the seat and all the that I'm encountering. I think I heard you say that in the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha says, but because I employ a function of the Tathagata, it's as though I'm witnessing that. I'm witnessing that Buddha right now.

[71:50]

And when I heard that, it was a relief. I felt an opening to this reoccurring feeling that I sit with of separateness, isolation, inferiority. So thank you for sitting with me. Great song. And in chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha said, those who practice all virtues and are flexible, harmonious, honest, and upright will see me teaching right now.

[73:20]

But I draw our attention to the first part of that statement, which is those who practice all virtues. And I would expand that to say those who practice all virtues with what you just brought up. Practice all virtues with a feeling of isolation. Practice all virtues with the feeling of inferiority. Dogen is referring to that statement, practice all virtues. He says, that means to enter the mud and water for the sake of all beings. So if you enter the mud and water of your own, all your feelings, whatever they are, and you practice being flexible, harmonious, upright, and honest, you will see the Buddha right before you now, and you will realize you're at the seat.

[74:37]

These feelings. We practice virtues. We practice all virtues with all these difficult, muddy feelings. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, our .. Yes, thank you, for this talk. Do you understand me? I do. Good. I have a question about another story which comes to my mind. And the story, I think, contains a line I think by a Zen teacher, probably, who says something like, don't let the sutra upset you. It would be you who upsets the sutra, something like this.

[75:44]

Well, that's an interesting translation. I appreciate that I hadn't heard that translation before. Another translation was, don't, which could turn you, you turn the sutra. And another translation is, when you're deluded, the sutra turns you. When you're awakened, you turn the sutra. So those are three different renditions of the story. It's a story. yeah so how does this so i guess it applies also to the flowers and to all kinds of distractions i don't know that's sort of what at least i understood from that story that everything is sort of a sutra or we can see it as that so Yeah. And so I wonder, I mean, the first part I kind of understand, we shouldn't sort of get really distracted by all those things.

[76:52]

But I mean, that's what I hear you say today or hear this Lotus Sutra say, that we shouldn't really get distracted by it. So we shouldn't be upset or turned by them. But, well, I don't understand the other part. Like, why do we then turn them or upset them instead? Okay, so may I say that your use of the word shouldn't is a Tilman variation on the story. Yes. However, when you say shouldn't, shouldn't is an opportunity to practice all virtues. shouldn't shouldn't it's a perfectly good opportunity to remember our job to sit at the seat so another way to say it is it's just a it's just a kind of like the ancient teacher the ancient zen teacher didn't say shouldn't he said when you're deluded you don't get when you're deluded you get turned by so when you're deluded you get turned by the word shouldn't

[78:16]

When you're deluded, you get turned by the words of the Lotus Sutra. They turn you. When you're deluded, you read Chapter 7. When I'm deluded and I read Chapter 7, if the description of how long it's been going on, if it turns me, if it pushes me around, if I'm scared of wasting my life reading about all this time, then I'm being turned. The sutra's turning me. The sutra's turning me. The sutra's teaching me that I'm deluded. Because it's turning me. I don't realize when I'm deluded that I'm turning me. I think it's turning me. I think it's bugging me. I think it's going on too long about how long it's been going on. So that's when I'm deluded. The sutra turns me. But it doesn't say, the Zen teacher who said that didn't say, don't be that way. Just realize that when the sutras, you're playing the delusion role.

[79:23]

But it's not too late. You can go around and say, now I'm going to turn the sutra. I'm going to turn the Dharma of the sutra. What does it mean? I don't know what the turn the sutra, I mean. Well, I guess it means that you don't get turned by what you just said. You turn what you just said. You don't get turned by what the sutra said. Turn what the sutra said. It's not it doing to you. It's you doing it. In other words, you turn. You change positions. You go from enlightenment, from delusion to enlightenment. You realize that the situation of being turned by the sutra is an opportunity to remember that you're at the seat.

[80:28]

And when you remember that you're at the seat, you just turn the sutra because the sutra just told you that. But now you do it rather than having it being done to you. So I feel still turned by you, I guess, or by your words. Yeah, but I don't go with that, I guess. Well, you feel turned by my words, okay? The only reason that you're turned by my words. But that's not the end of the story. Now you can turn them. Go ahead, turn them. I can. I can turn them. Or maybe I do. I don't know. Let enlightenment turn them. Let enlightenment turn them. Okay. I'll do that. Enlightenment turns your being turned into an opportunity to remember that you're sitting at the seat right now.

[81:39]

These words that are influencing you or turning you are now opportunities to realize that your practice right now is at the seat with the Buddhas. When that happens, that's enlightenment. But they're turning on each other. It isn't like we shouldn't be the deluded. It's that we sit on the seat with the delusion and we realize that we're never separate from the enlightenment. And that's turning the sutra. That's turning the teaching. The teaching is supposed to be turned. Enlightenment turns it. delusion can get pushed around.

[82:43]

But when delusion gets pushed around, that's the turning of the Dharma. So now, enlightenment's back on the job again. Thank you, that helped. It really does, you're right. Next up is Tracy Apple. Morning. Good morning. From the muddy waters over here. Whenever there's going to be a talk, I'm so excited. You know, I kind of can't wait. And then it comes. And then you say things that I don't understand some. And then I feel embarrassed. Ashamed. And then I. I'm ashamed to ask the questions in public every single time because I keep thinking, what's wrong with you that you have these basic lacks of understanding?

[83:52]

So that's the confession part I just wanted to say. So far, it's happened almost every single time, and it happened again today. Thinking I really shouldn't have such basic questions. So here's my basic question. As soon as we start talking, and you mentioned the word submerged in the things of the world, I immediately freeze. Do I think, uh-oh, I'm an imposter. I don't belong in Zen. I am engaged in the things of the world. I thought I was supposed to. I thought I was supposed to be engaging with everything that's right here. then I think well you know I didn't say so aren't I supposed to engage in the things of the world so then we went on with the talk today and I'm I hear you talk and everyone else talking about distractions and I can understand distractions and I can or I think I can and understand the flowers I just don't know what to do with submerged by the things or I don't know if it's by or in that

[84:59]

What does that mean? Yeah, that's my question. What does submerged by the things of the world mean as opposed to distraction? How do those two terms differ? I think they're basically the same. Really? Well, I don't know, really. I just think that. They're basically the same. However, I... Just a moment ago, I quoted the Lotus Sutra and Dogen's comment, which is, in the Lotus Sutra, when it's those who practice all virtues, and Dogen's comment is, that means walking in the mud and water for the sake of living beings. So, submerged in worldly affairs, distractions, a field of distractions, worldly affairs. So, in some sense we really should maybe not say distracted, rather than distractions.

[86:13]

Being distracted and being submerged in worldly affairs. We should, those who walk into that distraction, those who walk into the muddy water of worldly affairs and practice virtue with those distractions, with being distracted, with being distracted, with being submerged, those who practice virtues with being submerged, those people, those are the people who are sitting at the seat. So, What I'm trying to do is to sit at the seat and walk into being distracted, walk into being submerged in the world, and see if we can remember that we're sitting at the seat as we are submerged in the worldly affairs.

[87:25]

We are at the seat. Now let's see if we can remember it and practice at this seat, no matter what's happening. That's a huge relief. That's a relief to understand that. That really is. It's a huge relief, and also it's a huge job assignment. Yeah. It's saying, this is where you are. Try to remember that when you go outside. into you know the muddy waters try to remember that you're at and what do you do at the seat where you practice all virtues now the buddhas have been this buddha great penetrating wisdom excellence to tagata this buddha did that this buddha walked in the mud up to her eyeballs for a long time and practiced virtues and now can unmoving never forgetting Her job. No matter how high the mud gets.

[88:28]

No matter how submerged. She remembers her job. And then, this is all celestial flowers. Still, now she's submerged in celestial flowers. But she still has to deal with that stuff. That stuff is equally difficult. Or equally joyous. to work with. Thank you very much. Thank you for your wonderful question. Next up is Gal Cohen. Thank you, Rob. I really appreciate, I think we all do these talks. And I wanted to for something which was helpful to me and then ask a question, if that's okay? Yes. So the gratitude is, you know, during this talk and very often when I'm sitting, I find myself getting distracted and then I get attached to the distraction.

[89:37]

I get distracted by that. And so you notice, but towards the end of the talk, you briefly fidgeted and scratched your cheek. And I was like, oh, thank God he does that too. And that actually kind of helped release me from that attachment. So thank you. I think that's kind of similar to your DMV story. The question is, you know, I think I've heard you say, you know, today and other times that maybe our practice is non-separation kind of within a conventional world where things appear as being separate. I guess the question is, are you saying that if we let go of an attachment of wanting something to appear, then we can be open to things as it is already being there? Is that kind of what the Lotus Sutra is saying?

[90:38]

Yeah. But you have to practice all virtue with these separations. Worldly affairs are separations. Being distracted is a separation. So all this stuff, we look at it, and we look at it, and we look at it, and then looking at it, and we listen to it, and we listen to it. And then we let go without getting rid of it. And then all these things you're talking about, all these separations turn into solitude. and the beating of the Dharma drum. But we have to meet these myriad forms of the appearance of separation. We need to walk into them and practice virtue with them. Remember, we're doing it not to get to the seat, but being inseparable from the seat.

[91:47]

We have the same practice as the Buddha who doesn't fall into any of that anymore. Because of practicing confession and repentance when she did fall in the past. And also in the past not falling too. Many times not falling into these separations. The teaching is we're not separate from the Buddha who's sitting at that seat. Thank you. Yeah, it's hard for me to practice the non-graphics, and I appreciate the guidance. Thank you. Again, the word hard to practice... hard to believe, hard to understand. It's in the Lotus Sutra over and over. Thank you.

[92:55]

Next up is Karen. Good morning, Beth. Good morning. Thank you for this lovely conversation about the Lotus Sutra. When you and Linda were talking about the koan, I had this very strong kind of emotional response to it. And I'm kind of embarrassed, as Tracy said, I'm kind of embarrassed to bring it up. But the response was, it was much like when I was a little girl and I would ask my parents thousands of questions, you know, why this, why that? And they would try to answer some of them. And at some point they would say, I would say, why this? And they would say, because. And somehow in that, that because was oddly.

[93:59]

And, um, So that was what came up in response to that story. And I've now forgotten the story. I just remember that feeling of... That was a pretty good answer. Or it was a relaxing answer. Thank you. Could you say... Do you have any comments on that? I did. I said, thank you. Okay. Because. And that was the teacher's, that's the way the teacher's answer is translated.

[95:05]

The monk says, Since he was sitting at the site of enlightenment, why was he unable to fulfill Buddhahood? And the teacher said, because he did not fulfill the way of Buddhahood. Thank you. Thank you. Next up is Thelma and Isabel. Isabel, you changed the title of your picture. That makes it easier for me. Isabel. And I hope you can hear me, because last time it was not very easy. Great. Well, I thought... I have the idea that I understood something just now that I listened to all the conversations.

[96:12]

And it's like, I always thought... it's like, it's about me doing something wrong when I'm distracted or yeah. And, and I just had the thought now, oh, maybe it's just like that. It's just being distracted and nothing. Yeah. Wrong. So that's what there was a thought and I wanted to share it and ask, um, If I can say that like that. Yes, you can say it like that. And also, if you were doing something wrong, that's just doing something wrong, and then you practice virtues with that mud of doing something wrong. And you be gracious towards it.

[97:13]

And you be careful of it. and patient with it, and you admit it, and you say, if you feel sorry, you say you're sorry. That's also sitting at the seat. That's relating to the, quote, doing something wrong, like that Buddha would relate to it. That's the practice. Something wrong, something right, distracted, undistracted, whatever it is, whatever the mud is, you're sitting at the seat with the Buddhas. Every being? And with all beings, yeah. You're doing the same practice as me and all beings. You're doing the same practice of you and all Buddhas. We're doing the same practice...

[98:14]

However, if you don't remember it, you're teaching. And then you feel really bad. And yeah, you feel really bad. And you're missing an opportunity to turn the wheel of Dharma, to turn the flower sutra. But even though you missed the opportunity, you're still at the seat. And you're still doing the same practice as those who are happily turning the Dharma and remembering the teaching. So some beings are remembering the teaching right now. And if I forget, I still have the same feeling. But if I forget, I feel bad. And I'm sorry that I missed the opportunity to remember it. And life that way is not the way I want to live. I want to live the way of remembering the practice.

[99:17]

But even if I forget, from those who remember. Thank you. You're welcome. Next up is Okay, Rob, I think this is going to be related because you added with even if I forget, I'm not separate from those who remember. So we have non-separation. And then Suzuki says, I think something like when Zen is Zen, when Alan becomes Alan. So I guess what my question would be is, The unity of self-effacement with self-expression.

[100:19]

I think most Zen Buddhists would be pretty comfortable with Pablo Picasso and his self-expression, and they'd be far more uncomfortable with Adolf Hitler and his self-expression. But if you have seven and a half people self-expressing themselves, expressing themselves, it seems to me either the planet blows up or it doesn't blow up. I'm inclined to think it does blow up. But at any rate, falls in your court. When you first started talking about somebody who forgets where he is and somebody who remembers. Again, I thought of that story in the DMV when I forgot where I was and somebody else reminded me of where I was.

[101:32]

I was at DMV and I forgot I was sitting with all Buddhas. I thought I'm a better place to be. And then somebody calls to me and reminds me of where I am and what I'm there for. I'm sitting at that place for all beings. That's my first response to what you said. My first response is that I think when Suzuki Roshi said, when Alan is Alan or Steve is Steve, Zen is Zen. But what I'm emphasizing is that we have a really hard time being ourselves, which seat. So I would say that people who have done like us, like us, people who have done terrible things, when we did terrible things, when we expressed ourselves that way, we had not realized

[102:42]

that we're sitting on the seat together with all beings. We have not realized that. We are distracted from that. When we're distracted from that, we can do terrible things, even though we're still not the least bit different from the Buddhas. If we don't realize that, we can do terrible things. And we will sometimes. But if we realize that, we have to realize it together with all beings. And if we don't realize it with all beings, again, that means we don't realize it together with this moment. Next up is Caroline Burke.

[103:46]

Caroline, you're muted. There. Can you hear me now? Yes. Thank you. I said, first of all, thank you so much for this lovely talk this morning, Rev. It's so helpful to be with everyone. Then, building on what Timon said a little while ago about the being turned and turning, that discussion, when you were answering that I think you've used more than once came to me that may speak to this situation. That was the hinge of the swinging door. Am I right in remembering that? You were speaking about the kind of consciousness that when we're in this place of being turned and turning,

[105:08]

and I thought perhaps it can mean that we get out of our own way to some extent that we don't think that it is we who are being who are doing the turning it's happening as the hinge of the swinging door lets the movement and the opening happen just does that speak to what You meant when you used to tell us about the hinge, the swinging door? Yes. And does it help us to understand this, I don't know what to call it, metaphysical puzzle that Tiemann brought up of being turned and turning away somehow. It can happen more of its own accord, perhaps. Yeah, and it could be phrased as when deluded, we are turned by, when deluded, turned.

[106:29]

When awakened, turning. Turning. You could phrase it that way without putting we or you. Deluded, turned. Deluded, being turned. Awakened, turning. All right, thank you. But also awakened turning means turning from delusion to enlightenment too. Yes. Gets us out of the way. We just have a cat being turned here. Cats demonstrate this very well, too. Thank you, Rep. You're welcome. Thank you. Next up is Stefan Nikola. Hi, Rep. Can you hear me? Yeah? Yeah?

[107:34]

Yes, I can hear you. So I have a two-part question, I guess. I also wanted to talk about the thing that the man brought up. And... turning and being turned is basically the same thing that is just going together and it's just if it's maybe just a question of the perspective seen from the perspective of the it's being turned and seen from the other perspective it's turning is that did I understand that right Well, I would say yes, or another way to put it is instead of saying perspective, which is slightly different, this way and seeing it that way.

[108:42]

Talking about what's being seen in two different situations. Two different situations, not the situation of illusion and enlightenment or being turned. or turning. So the being turned or the turning is slightly different from saying seeing it that way or seeing it that way. I was wondering if... If I'm experiencing myself as diluted or separate, then being turned is for me something... Maybe I completely misunderstood it.

[109:44]

I was thinking about that... normally there's this protection that makes me separate from the world. And if the protection is non-shining, then those things that come can turn me. Right. So being turned as a deluded being is a very... good thing for me it's like let the things come and don't protect myself from them or something like that yeah and letting them come is more like turning them this part I don't it's like that let's say I would say if you resist a thing, it turns you.

[110:46]

If you let it be, you turn it. Okay. So, yeah, so when you're separate, then things move you around. Yeah. When you're not separate, then you move them around. I should say they're moved around. When you allow them, when you allow them, you don't get spun about. But it's also sometimes the feeling of getting destroyed by something, and that's kind of a positive thing. First, there's the fear of getting destroyed, but then being destroyed is also... the delusion is also destroyed. Yeah, well, actually... could be a positive thing too. The fear of being destroyed and the beings who are destroyed, they both could be positive, but they both kind of move you around.

[111:51]

Being destroyed kind of moves, turns you a little bit, and fear turns you a little bit. Or maybe just a fear turns you and being destroyed turns you. But if you allow that, then you're turning, right in the fear and you're i shouldn't say you're turning and there's turning in the fear and then there's turning into being destroyed and then the dharma is awakening is being is the turning and the other ones are being turned they're both good they're inseparable they're both good dharma Yes. Thank you. I don't know if I want to pose the second question. I think I'm done. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for your question. There are no more raised hands.

[112:55]

All right. Well, thank you so much. And after a long saga with various technologies and companies will not be mentioned. Noah Bode now has internet connection. So time we have a talk, I'll try to give it from Noah Bode. Thank you all for your wonderful questions. Thank you for all your wonderful flowers. Thank you for all the mud you threw at me, along with your flowers. I wish you well, and I hope we can meet again soon.

[113:45]

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