What I'd like to try to talk about is... Zen center from the outside, or a sangha, We're always encountering Zen Center in various ways, and we don't know what it is. And I think

[01:08]

we can know only by defining what we are, understanding what we're doing from the inside. Some of you would like, I think, for Zen Center to only exist from the inside. that's impossible. Maybe some, if you are in just the right kind of innocuous neighborhood, and you're quite small and new group, you can exist rather anonymously. But in many neighborhoods you will be kicked out even if you're rather anonymous Zen group. Even when we first came to Tassajara, as some of you know, people tried to prevent us from coming. And as soon as you find some way to survive, then other people look to you for survival.

[02:39]

Anyway, Suzuki Yoshi, by his practice here, left us a group which has some social existence, which I talked about once before in this practice period. and it came up again around the whales. You know, the whales coming to Zen Center was rather disturbing for Zen Center. Everyone seemed to like it, actually. I consider it a little disturbing, but maybe we're not disturbed enough. must know by now that our society is in total transformation. And what we can see, what you can see visibly, you know, it's already twenty or thirty years old. It actually happened

[04:14]

several decades ago. So what you can't see now, you'll be able to see 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. What's happening in Washington is not something that's started now. It started, takes many years before you can actually crumble. what people can do, what they're doing. When what the newspapers call the credibility is gone, something very substantial is gone. So there is this interest in in Wales, which I told you about last night, and how maybe other forms of consciousness are taming us. And the

[05:40]

way in which so many people came to Zen Center, both to see the movie on the whales and to meet Paul Spong, but also because it was Zen Center. It was very interesting, you know. The Ecology Center invited Paul Spong to come, and Paul Spong gave the same movie and talk at the Ecology Center, and maybe 30 or 40 people came, 25 people came. We did the same thing at Zen Center, and 150 or 200 people came. So anyway, I'm using it as some example. The whales have something in common with us. One, I think, first of all, as I suggested last night, there is more similarity between our attempting inter-species communication, or there is a great deal of similarity between inter-species communication and your attempt to communicate with yourself, which seems so foreign. You have to give up all ideas of what you are.

[07:11]

Buddhism is a lot involved in renaming you, renaming you karma or dharma or some other name other than your personal name and personal history. So that there's some Maybe there's some acid in the name karma which eats your name away. But whales are very independent and they take care of themselves. They don't have buildings. Whales don't have any possessions.

[08:17]

we should not have any possessions, just something we use temporarily. And whales have emphasized auditory... an auditory realm, you know. In meditation, the relationship between spatial consciousness and auditory perception is one in which many sutras emphasize. The Suragama Sutra especially says that sound is the best method for achieving enlightenment. And whales are quite... You could say whales have a culture, but they don't have civilization. And that's also true of Buddhists, of Zen especially. Zen is rather uncivilized, in a sense, but it's quite cultured, cultivated. See if I can make that clearer.

[10:02]

Civilization comes from the Indo-European root meaning K, K-E-I. I don't know how you pronounce it. But K means to lie down, to recline, to... maybe it means to be with one's beloved. So it comes to mean a habitation. In Old English it comes to mean a measure of land enough to support a household. It means, in Greek and French, it means village or household, in Latin, city. So you get citadel, fortress, or city, or citizen. And it has to do with then possessions, having possessions, enough possessions for a household, and having some government or social responsibility of a citizen to take care of and respect the possessions of the city or society. But culture comes from KWEL and it means to turn

[11:34]

or to move. You know, in our practice it may mean to sit, because our sitting is to find out what movement really is, or change, how everything changes. Culture has to do with transmitting ways of thought and work, but not with possessions. And culture is the word, quell, is the source of wheel and chakra, your various centers. So, while K emphasizes possessions and security,

[12:35]

culture side maybe emphasizes, no possessions, no fear, just ways of doing things. Some independence. So Buddhism, Zen is not, Zen is the most independent school in Buddhism. Zen has never, of all Buddhism, I think Zen is the school which has least been involved in political power and being a kind of government in taking on social responsibility. Their influence has always been cultural, or person-to-person, and not institution-to-institution or power relationships. And Zen schools are not against cities, but they're not citified, which is what civilization means to me. So even in a large city, a Zen monastery will have its own garden, will cultivate, you know, its own ground. And the idea of ground which culture has, you know, to cultivate the ground,

[13:57]

not to live on top of it and possess it, but to cultivate it. It's very much like our idea of mind, out of which everything comes, which we, in a sense, by practice, cultivate. So, if we have even a little bit of the independence of the whale, taking care of ourself, we're going to find many

[15:22]

As our society becomes, as I say, unglued, many people are going to feel some kindred independence or strength, even if we don't have it so much, actually, if we look like we do. There's going to be some alignment of energy with Zen groups. And I think this is pretty clearly what's happening. Cultivate, or quell, also extrapolates into colony and not into city. Not colony in the sense of an English colony, but colony in the sense of a group of similar plants or animals that live together. So a Sangha is a kind of colony, a wheel or turning. And if you turn your own wheel, the Zen Center turns, society turns. There's no way to be completely independent

[16:44]

So this, if you can understand this, you can see how the family or the household within a sangha presents a rather, presents or becomes a necessity to define what a family is. Because if you think of a family as a household, and rather independent, you are a citizen or a householder, and if you have children, your child is your own responsibility to bring up completely. this won't work, you know, for families like, for example, living in Green Gulch. I talked for four or five hours with the families there recently which have new babies. And the other

[18:23]

families there with children, too. Some don't want anyone to say anything to their child. Some don't mind, but there's some difficulty here. And if we can't solve it, then there won't be families in Zen Center, in Buddhist sanghas. There has to be some different priority in which the highest priority is no possessions, no particular measure of land that's yours, a willingness to share the development of a child, education, cultivation of a child. I think it's possible, but it requires some new way of thinking and acting on very basic formulations we have about what a human being is, or what father and mother and child are.

[19:55]

what habitation is, what living together is. So, it's partly for this reason that Gary Snyder can write an article, which many of you have seen, an essay, and I think it's published in Earth Household now, which describes Buddhism as revolutionary. It certainly is revolutionary in that it's related to turning, to moving. And in our society, based on possessions and civilization, cidification, it's revolutionary. When you understand this difference between city and a sangha, you can see the difference of, or the meaning of why we say, you leave your household, you're one who leaves home. Or how radical it must have been in China and Japan, which emphasize filial piety far, far more than we can

[21:23]

conceive of even, how radical it must be for Zen to say, kill your parents. Or in the ordination ceremony, how we say, Oh, the ties of affection are hard to break. Oh, the ties of attachment are hard to break. But Buddhism from the beginning has never said our aim as a religion or as a practice is just to help other human beings. Our vow is clearly to save all beings. And maybe save is not so good, though I think I told you that every time Virginia hears the phrase, save all sentient beings, she thinks of the word on the blackboard in grammar school or high school, when you have some equations or history lesson written, and somebody writes, save, puts a circle in it, so you don't erase it. Maybe save all sentient beings has that kind of meaning. Don't erase.

[22:51]

don't disturb unnecessarily. Or maybe if Nagarjuna has the eraser, it's all right, you can erase. It's easy to erase. But maybe a more accurate way of stating that vow is, a bodhisattva vows to be with all beings. as Sterling Bunnell when he was here last year during Hanamatsuri in the springtime. And we had that ceremony up on the hill offering flowers, baby blue eyes, and lotus, and lupine to the baby Buddha. And the ceremony, you know, says,

[23:54]

Well, ceremony says, means that flowers are the ancestor of the rice plant by which we eat. Some development from the rice plant, from the flowers. And Sterling described a field of flowers as a field of intelligence. must be clear. If we're intelligent, everything must be intelligent. A pile of rocks must be intelligent, must have its own intelligence. And as I described the whales,

[24:58]

even seem to gather, you know, at places in the ocean, some whales, just for chanting or literature. It looks like actually some of the things they chant with recurring themes are whale literature or some form of aesthetic creation. that as you, as we, as the world begins to see a similar intelligence all around itself, all around each of us sees a similar intelligence around us,

[26:09]

The way we live, the way we define our habitations, our cities, will change. And Buddhism does not even limit saving or being with all being, but being with all objects, animate, inanimate, all being animate or inanimate. Material and mind are the same thing in Buddhism. So I think you know the story about Isan and Tozan. Tozan was the founder of this, our lineage, in China. And this is maybe the second or third major question he asked himself at the beginning of his practice. He went to Isan and he asked about Echu Kokushi.

[27:42]

who was the disciple of the Sixth Patriarch and was called state teacher or national teacher. Kokushi means national or state teacher. Tozan asked Isan about Echu-Kokushi's statement. And Isan asked Tozan to repeat the story. And the story is, an old wall and broken tiles. And the monk said, are not an old wall and broken tiles inanimate objects? And Nanyo said, yes, they are. And the monk said, well, can inanimate objects expound the Dharma? And Ichu, Nanyo, said, do you not know that inanimate objects are always vigorously, continuously expounding the Dharma?

[29:07]

The monk says, well, why don't I hear it? And Echu said, although you do not hear it, do not hinder that which hears it. Although you do not hear it, do not hinder that which hears it. If you're involved with yourself, thinking about yourself, wondering what people think about you, you can't hear anything. That's hindrance. Till you get through that, you just have to be patient and accept that you can't understand much. And as long as we're involved in possessions and civilization, you know, we can't hear much. How to hear with the eyes and see with the ears? How, like the dolphin who only needed one click to know where all the rings were, you should be able to, with one click, know exactly what your situation is.

[30:41]

and what to do. But it means being free from inner emotional turmoil. And it means, in all of this, it means samadhi. So the reference point for Buddhist culture is samadhi. from the experience of samadhi we make sure our understanding or our faith. We start with faith and through the action of doubt you are led finally to

[31:45]

give up enough so that you can make sure through the experience of samadhi. Samadhi itself is not our goal, but it's our way of making sure. knowing that mind out of which everything arises, rather than just knowing the products. So civilization is based on the products, arranging the products, keeping track of the products, which ones are yours, which ones someone else's. So we're in for some pretty big change in your lifetime, in our lifetime. Not only because the minds of people are different now, but also because, you know,

[33:11]

David Brouwer speaks, when he starts a lecture, he says, he often begins with, if you took all the ages of man, or of the world, and you squeezed it into seven days, as the Bible says, then the first two or three days are such and such, and the second couple days are such and such, etc. But mankind, man appears on the scene 11 seconds before midnight of the last day. So all of human history and prehistory of humans exists in 11 seconds on a seven-day scale. And during those 11 seconds, and during the last little bit that we are, we are using up all the resources accumulated during the whole other 6.9999 days. So our whole very expensive and inefficient technology based on not our own energy but on

[34:38]

the energy accumulated over millennia is going to fizzle out pretty quickly. And we have whole... Well, even if you take something simple like standard of living. They've made studies around the world, and I don't know if I mentioned this before, but anybody gets used to, any people or country or individual gets used to a certain standard of living, very soon they take it as God-granted, something that they can't do without, that is their right, their due right. And if you take it away, people have people go crazy, people get very angry, etc. Well, a great deal is going to be taken away. But more than that, the whole rhythm of our living and culture is going to change.

[36:02]

maybe another 10 or 20 or 30 years left of fossil fuels, and already we're seeing, although the shortage now is somewhat fake, you know, it's already apparent that we're going to run out. And I think, since everything is energy, there must be some way, they will find some, people will find some way to have some more efficient energy source. But even so, it's going to be some drastic change in our lifetime. So we can expect Some real

[37:33]

strain put on our practice and life, whether you're part of Zen Center or practicing Buddhism or not practicing Buddhism or part of Zen Center. But the more each of us can learn to be independent, without dependence on possessions and technology, It will help everyone find this same kind of independence, so when the rug is pulled out, people don't lose their minds in the process. Is there something you want to talk about?

[38:44]

She's right. Partly, I think it just takes time. for parents or anybody associated with you to make sense of what you're doing, because it doesn't... It's like seeing, in a pinball machine, seeing one of the balls take off and go up in the air. It doesn't follow any rules, so you keep... You keep expecting it to fall down and break the glass. And people pull back the thing and you don't move. Gone. It's curious to me because

[40:41]

I have, with Suzuki Roshi, tried to keep Zen Center from taking any particular political stance, and tried to keep Zen Center open to anyone, any business tycoon or revolutionary. To me, I don't care, you know, I don't want to take I don't think the Buddhist group, and as practicers, individually, you can have various opinions. As a practicer of Buddhism, I don't think we should take sides. Just keep trying to respond. I remember during the hay day of the haydash parade, Everyone in the Haight-Ashbury wanted us to create a Haight-Ashbury Zendo, and they wanted to bring busloads of people to Tassajara for their first trip. Did you know that? They had buses rented. They were going to arrange a whole thing so people wouldn't have to pass it for the first time on a street corner somewhere. That's a very good idea.

[42:05]

Can you imagine a busload, a school bus full of kids around here? Everyone would be passed out a cap as they get here and left alone for two days and driven out or something. We would have been busted, first of all, in about one week when they told that to Suzuki Yoshi and myself. I was willing, I'm quite willing to help, you know. So I said, well, let's We should do it by taking the buses to a different location every time. If we bring it to the same location every time, we'll all go to jail. They didn't like that idea. But we kept... Suzuki Roshi considered opening a zendo in the Hedashipuri. And we kept trying to respond in some way. But by our responding, soon they realized they didn't want us to have a zendo in the Hedashipuri at all. We somehow weren't exactly what they thought we were. But although we've tried to take no particular stance but just respond to

[43:31]

have our limitations seen, or the definitions of what our practice is, what we concentrate on, seen by responding, we have come to, despite trying to have no political stance, at the whale evening, for instance, maybe five or ten of the people there were leaders in the fight against the war in Vietnam, against the Watergate thing, against our usual Western psychology, against our environmental destruction. Somehow all felt some kinship with Zen Center. Not because we are good or bad or anything, but just because we're all maybe similar pinball machine balls that got loose. So we feel some similarity. And in a way, Nixon and his friends are all wondering why everybody has abandoned the pinball machine, and they're still trying to govern it.

[44:52]

That's true. Some other question? Can you explain more about the statement that sound is the best way to heal? Although you can't hear it, you know. I think for you... lying is the best way. You're not supposed to ask such obvious questions. Actually, maybe that's the best kind. without being militant Buddhists and not women? Well, you're partly the answer yourself, but I'm certainly not waiting it out.

[46:50]

I don't have, no more than I'm waiting out anything. I don't have some idea that women can't or can't practice, or men can't or can't practice, or families can or can't. But I think if we look at Buddhist history and see that for the most part Buddhism has been transmitted by monks and male monks, that it's not been passed along by laymen much, women much, and families. So it behooves us to look at why that's so and to try to make some, to understand why that's so. Otherwise, we'll fall into the same... the same thing will happen. It's pretty easy to see, actually, why it happens. And it's looking... usually it's finding some shortcut. Or it's a little easier to do it one way or the other, so you keep choosing the way that's a little easier, you end up with a certain kind of people, person, practicing, for whom it's easiest, you know.

[48:18]

But it's not just... what I'm trying to talk about now, today, partly, is it's not just a matter of what we can learn from Buddhist history, but what we can... and that we should understand what has happened there, but we should understand what's happening right now, which is also because our culture, our society, our civilization is in such transition that it has a great deal to do helping and hindering our practice. Mostly it helps. Mostly at a time like this in a culture is when you have people willing to shake themselves loose or up and try some practice. As soon as society settles back down, it's easier to stay settled down And so not so many people will practice seriously unless you offer them a good life. That's why you're practicing. I think, if you want my opinion, I think there's no question that

[50:02]

within Zen Center, some of the students who are women are equally good with the students who are men, not better, and that I can't see at present any likelihood that both will develop and be eventually, both men and women will eventually, people from Zen center will be head of Zen groups somewhere. But then there's a further question, will a woman be able to pass Buddhist teaching to a man or another woman? Also, in the long run, are women so interested? Are men so interested? Maybe more men... Traditionally, more men are interested. So maybe at this time, many women are interested, equally. With men, maybe twenty years from now, not so many will be interested. I don't know. One of the big problems is that

[51:30]

women who are in Zen Center today have grown up with ideas about what it is to be a woman and ways of responding to confrontation or aggression or difficulty that is rather different from the way men do. Because women tend to think of themselves as, forgive me saying so, I think most women tend to think of themselves as weaker, so they have some more indirect way of relating. Maybe this is some problem in Buddhist practice. I don't know what women being born now or recently will be like, because now there's a different set

[52:32]

But in the first practice period here, we couldn't, first couple of practice periods, it was difficult to get a woman to carry the stick or be willing to hit a person even. It was so taboo for a woman to hit someone. And to take any leadership, the idea that a woman could be Ina was It seemed impossible. Suzuki Roshi and I discussed it with some of the older students. Maybe it wasn't going to work because we couldn't, even when we gave responsibility to a woman who seemed the best person to do a job, they wouldn't take the responsibility over men. And we weren't looking for militant types, if that's what you mean. So, actually, now there seems to be no problem about it. So, we must have changed quite a bit, you know. But we, by taking a certain stand and maintaining it and maintaining it and waiting for each of us, you know, we ourselves change. Some others?

[54:02]

That's true. And a number of people from Zen Center have gone over to their school, Child Development Center, to look at what they're doing. But they And part of the reason they started is because of the feeling that they're... I think I mentioned this before here, that the parents may be killed, so someone... they should have some community, group way to take care of the children. But actually, there's quite a similarity between our sense of turning, or culture, versus civilization, or possessions, that we share with what they're trying to do, for some reason.

[55:23]

but we can learn something from them and they have turned over the development of the taking care of the children more to the community and quite radically away from the nuclear family. I think we're going to have to find some way in between. We can learn something from what they've done. I don't mean for you to think about all this social, political, cultural stuff I've been talking about, or try to figure it out, but just trying to give you a sense that, one, whether you like it or not, you are social-political beings, even if you are anti-political, anti-social, you're political and social.

[56:26]

and center is, no matter what it does. And that these configurations are unavoidable in our practice. We have to take some... we have to acknowledge them and take some responsibility in relationship to them. And I want to give you some sense of how complicated what we are doing is just we are trying to sit together and take care of ourselves. That's all. But when you see the effect that just a group of people sitting together and trying to take care of themselves has on our society and has on various people, you realize you've actually taken some stance, not communist, not democratic, not this, but something unusual, it's some statement. And you suffer or benefit from the consequences of that statement to the degree to which you stick to it and articulate. So for us, I think, all we should do is

[57:51]

stick to our practice and taking care of ourselves. That's enough. But sometimes if you see so much coming down, wondering what's happening,

[58:02]

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