very short, abridged version. Most people use short sentences. There's a right and a wrong. Even the shorter version must be done correctly.

[01:12]

And if you do it, that will be also effective. not to rush it and leave out parts, basically. All right, so he showed you, he demonstrated to you three versions of the mandala offering. The first is the very long offering, which spells it out in every detail, the things that you are offering, and each one has a particular location. Then in the shorter version which consists of seven basic things which are offered and each has a particular location.

[02:12]

That's the middle length offering. Then in the very short version the prayer consists of the offering prayer consists of four short lines which most of you recognize from your laundry prayers when you ask the teacher to teach do you remember we recited every Tuesday for the last 10 years and that is the offering in the short form Now, Gautama, I want to use the middle-linked version. But for our purposes, it will suffice to learn and practice the short version. So that is what Rinpoche proposes to teach you tonight. Lales. [...] That's what I'm trying to say.

[03:39]

That's what I'm trying to say. [...] Let's talk about the symbolism involved in this representation of our universe. Understandably, the universe which Indian and Tibetan Buddhists are offering up, it differs somewhat to our Westerners' concepts of the universe and its arrangement.

[04:59]

So one would have to understand something about Buddhist cosmology. in order to appreciate the symbolism of the offering, the arrangement of one's offerings on the surface of the mandala. Basically, the Buddhist conception of the universe is that it centers around a great mountain. Mount Sumeru, in the center of the universe, which... and it is surrounded by four great continents, one in each direction, each of the major directions. And each of those four great continents has on either side of it

[06:05]

to subcontinents. Now, you're at liberty to think of continents as planets, and the Buddhist notion of oceans as space, or whatever. These are not, I should point out, this cosmology is not canonical. It is found in various versions in the Abhidharma literature, which is not necessarily attributed to the Buddha, but for general purposes, Buddhists accept this notion of cosmology, and it's definitely represented here in the mandala. So, Rinpoche has drawn out for you a map. In the center, you have Mount Sumeru, which is something like a ziggurat and it has some hundred levels on which on its slopes you'll find all kinds of inhabitants in their different realms leading up to the highest gods and so forth.

[07:24]

They're all located somewhere on the slopes of this mountain. Now in the Now this is the East. The point facing away from you, now assuming that I am facing the mandala, I'm facing the mandala from here, this would be east. On the point opposite me, the far side of your mandala is east. There is the planet, eastern planet, symbolized here by a, what, kind of a crescent. A crescent with its two subcontinents. All right, so we have east.

[08:25]

They need the flow. Flow, river energy. All right. I see. All right. So let's go and... Thank you. So, east, south. South is represented here by a kind of a shape which I supposed to represent. It sort of resembles the shoulder blade of a sheep or something, sort of pear-shaped.

[09:34]

That represents our own continent with its subcontinents. Yes. [...] you don't know. Yes. Yes. All right. So then to the west you have Godinia and its subcontinents.

[10:35]

And then to the north would be Uttarakuru. Okay? With its sub-continents. Now, you should think of this in terms of very vast expanses of space. Here the ocean. Here is the ocean, either the ocean of space or of water, however you want to interpret it, surrounded, and the universe surrounded by what is called an iron wall, meaning the circumference of the universe. There is something like, really these, it's also represented as seven, these oceans are concentric circles, the continents are on concentric circles.

[11:36]

But if you want to think of them, if it helps you to think of them as oceans of space over vast, vast expanses of space, and so forth, but Rumiche says try to visualize just the cosmogony in the center of space, this great mountain in which these various world systems, various world systems are masses of of land masses are located in various points. Then you should think of these as being... So the basic idea is that this is the constitution of our universe, that it has this arrangement, and that Rinpoche...

[12:49]

Of course, I believe that this really is the arrangement of our universe. He says that it is, of course, it differs, he knows that it differs from the Westerners' conceptualization of the universe, of our universe, but this one happens to be correct. So, in any case, you are to, when you're offering the universe, you should think of it as being the whole of all the These represent the whole of all the land masses or planets, whatever. No, it is sort of the axis, the center of the universe, the center. You always have to have a central point. Many years ago?

[13:55]

It's a big Nala concept. The tigers. That's it. Don't get [...] it. Now, you should really check once out, however, that this is only the representation of our most immediate universe, that our particular universe has this construction.

[15:18]

However, this is in our world system, in our world system, there are a thousand such universes. When you multiply one universe by a thousand times, that constitutes our world system. Now, a thousand such world systems gives you one great world system. And then a thousand great world systems gives you the next... the next world system, a level of arrangement of world systems, which is called really the three times a thousand.

[16:28]

In other words, you get the idea then that they're not, that though this represents, this is a representation of the universe, that it also symbolizes just about everything that is in, it symbolizes the whole of the physical physical space, meaning that space and everything that is in the world, animate and inanimate world, is composed of many world systems, of which our universe is only one small corner. So you get the idea that then it is... It represents the Buddhist concept of many world systems, of which ours is only one. Thank you. [...] Don't forget it.

[17:36]

Don't forget it. [...] So many years ago. No, I'm not. I don't think you're going to get it. I don't know. [...]

[18:37]

I don't know. [...] All right. Now, let's talk about Sumeru, which is the first item on our mandala. Mount Sumeru, conceived of as being external, it represents the axis moon at the center of the universe. And to give you some idea of its dimensions, it is said to be... So 8,000 pakse in height. All right, now what is a pakse? A pakse is approximately 500 yards multiplied by 8 gives us what? 4,000 yards. One pakse is 4,000 yards approximately.

[19:44]

Then sumeru is is 8,000 paxes in height. 8,000 times, 8,000 times by 4,000, 8,000 times 4,000 yards is how much? 32,000. 32,000 yards times 3. 8,000. 8,000 times 4,000. 32,000. Oh, 32. 32 million, yeah. All right. Now, how many yards in a mile? There are only 2,000. No, it's not that much, is it? No. It's 5,200 HP.

[20:50]

It's about 1,600. That's pretty tall. Yeah, right. 32 million yards. How many? There's 1,700 yards. How many yards in a mile? 1,700? 1,700, isn't it? A lot less. A lot less. Okay, then you have… All right, let's get on to it. So you get the idea. It's quite tall. It's in the center of the universe, and it has four slopes. I mean, it's four slopes in each direction. So on the north… On the north, the… the color of the stone, the slope, the color of its substance is white, and therefore the light reflected off this mountain is white, and therefore the sky, the space facing in the northern direction, did I say northern?

[22:12]

Sorry, eastern direction, I mean eastern, is white. Okay? Uh, now... Yes. Yes. Yes. In other words, Sri Ravindra says, according to the Abhidharma, which is where we're getting all these figures, this much, the length of one's hand span, is one domba. Then that, what I'm calling a yard, is really two yards. Multiply that by five... Never mind, I'm not crediting. Multiply that by five hundred. Five hundred of that gives you one tron. And then that times eight gives you one poxa. Okay?

[23:13]

So... Sure. Is it possible to see Mount Meru as a multi-dimensional piece like Milky Way? Or is it actually a mountain? It's a mountain, according to the... Abhidharma. It's a real mountain and it has these four slopes. One facing east is colored white, one facing the south is blue in color. It's actually composed of slopes made of white duria, lapis lazuli. And so the light reflecting off that colors the sky blue and it just happens that our sky is blue. Remember our planet is in the south. the southern planet and the southern continent of Jambudweepa has a blue sky, whereas in the east the sky is perceived as white. To the west the sky is perceived as red because Mount Meru has its slopes made of Atmaraga, which is coral, coral slopes.

[24:21]

To the north, it has yellow. Its slopes are made of gold. Therefore, the sky is yellow. That's in the northern. The people who live in the northern continent are going to see yellow skies and so forth, whereas we see blue skies, okay? That's the sky. I don't know. [...] All right, now the beings, these four continents are all inhabited by beings.

[25:29]

Now, as we said, on the slopes of the mountain there are all kinds of celestials living. At the very point of the, typically of Mount Sumeru, you have these highest form of deities Now, let's talk about the inhabitants of these continents. Now, the beings, the humans, living in our southern continent of Jambudvipa are approximately six feet in height. In the eastern continent of Videha, they are 12 feet in height. East, east. East? Yes. The eastern continent, they are 12 feet tall. In the western continent, they are... Just a moment, I have to write this out.

[26:55]

Half of that is going to be 3. They are... Just a moment. 4. 4 times, no, 4 times 3, 4 times 3 pi, got it. And it's going to be 18 plus 4, plus 4. What is, um, divide by your pin, thank you. Three-fourths of... Three-fourths of six is how much? One, two, six. What is three-fourths of six? One, two... Excuse me. Is how much? Four point three.

[27:57]

Three-fourths of six. Is how much? Four point five. Four point five. All right. In the... all right, so in our... in our continent... in our... in our continent, beings are six feet... humans are six feet tall. In the eastern continent, they're twelve feet tall. In the western continent, they are twenty-two and a half feet tall. And in the... It's going to be... One-sixth. One-fourth of six is how much? One-and-a-half? One-and-a-half. So, in the... Yes, in the northern continent, they're twenty-four feet tall. Twenty-four feet tall.

[29:00]

If you don't want to go to school, you can't go to school. [...] You did. You did. You did. Now, in the Abhidharma, also we have a description of these various continents.

[30:09]

Let's talk about the eastern continent, that is Purva-videha. That's V-I-D-E-H-A. In the east has a wide sky and the people there were 12 feet tall, right? So, how big is it? The main continent is 350 patsas on its on its eastern perimeter. That is approximately, if we say Pakse is 2,000, it is 4,000 yards length.

[31:14]

I'll call that two miles, OK? Roughly. Two miles for one Pakse. So that would make it 700 miles on its eastern side, and then it is, 4,000 miles on each of its other sides, 4,000, 4,000, 4,000, so approximately it is, it is on its circumference, it is about 12,000, 12,750 miles in circumference, okay? I'm calling. I converted it to miles. 12,000. Yeah, I'm saying 12,750. You can all work it out. [...]

[32:15]

I'm calling. I converted it to miles. 12,000. Yeah, I'm saying 12,750. You can all work it out. I'm calling. I converted it to miles. 12,000. Yeah, I'm saying 12,750. You can all work it out. I'm calling. I converted it to miles. 12,000. you're going to be in the mud. You're [...] going to be in the mud. Now we have the southern continent of Dramadweepa, which happens to be our own. There, the sky is blue, the people are six feet tall, and the continent itself is shaped like the shoulder blade of a sheep or a yak. You know, they're sort of, like a pair, sort of fan-shaped, right? Right?

[33:16]

In any case, that's represented by this shape here, our continent, Jambudvipa. It is... Now, each of these, the beings, the humans that live in each of these different continents have sort of different physical features. They sort of resemble the shape of their continent. So that our faces sort of resemble the shoulder blade of a sheep. Okay. Okay. Oh, yes.

[34:17]

Now, the circumference of Jambudweepa is approximately... What is here? Three thousand times three is twenty-four. It's three and a half. Three and a half. It's a little over 30,000 miles in circumference, somewhere over that. And the beings there have three eyes. I believe everything you say.

[35:21]

I believe everything you say. Yes, yes. Where, Carolyn? Right here. Starts itching. The beings, of course, do not have three eyes.

[36:29]

I don't know. I don't know. Don't worry. All right. Now, now we have the western continent of Godinia, which means wealthy in cows. And it's two continents. Yes. It, there, the continent has this shape, that is a circle, a circular shape, and it is... It is a 16,000 miles in circumference, lotus.

[37:34]

Now, in the north we have the continent of Uttarakuru, which means noisy sounds, bad noises. All right? It is also shaped in a square. and has four equal sides, and it is also 16,000 miles in circumference. They have square faces. Then we have the sun and the moon, which look like, they look like, and they are, the sun is, according to my reckoning, is about a hundred and two miles in circumference.

[39:06]

The moon is a hundred miles in circumference. Very good. Excuse me, this is the northern. Yes, they are Now these sun and moon are common to all these four continents because they rotate around the point, the peak of Mount Sumeru and shine on these different continents as they come to them. So they rotate around and travel around the peak of Mount Sumeru. They're not at all, Rinpoche stressed, they're not at all like the Western conceptualization of the...

[40:07]

In any case, however visualized, this arrangement of the universe is symbolic and what it symbolizes is what is important that you are offering up the whole of your being and your universe towards the enlightenment of all living beings, that visualize it in this way, through visualizing it in this way, reciting the mandala prayer, the mandala offering prayer sincerely and meaningfully, then you will effectively acquire merit through offering up sincerely, all that constitutes your universe.

[41:37]

And since it is expanded, since you are also dealing with these concepts of great space and of totality of everything that the universe consists of, that is, that there is nothing to which you are holding back. to which you are holding back, nothing which you are clinging to, but relinquishing your all in offering towards the highest ends of living beings, the highest spiritual goal of living beings. This is training in the acquisition of merit through making the highest kind of gift. Now, if you are successful in your meditation and sincere, you will start getting signs of the accumulation of merit. For example, you may dream that you are seated upon a jewel throne, or that you are being elevated, and that the sun and the moon will rise, and so forth.

[42:44]

You will see the sun and the moon. All these are signs of accumulation of pure merit. Now, also that it has been pointed out that just through this single act of offering the mandala, one single offering of the mandala incorporates within it, in that single act, all six of the bodhisattvas' perfections. That is by, for example, as you begin to offer the... you pour the water, to purify the mandala, that offering of water is the first perfection of giving. As you cleanse the surface of the mandala with that offering, that is the purification that accompanies training in moral conduct, moral discipline. As you prepare the

[43:47]

The offering, that is, if you're offering stones, you weed out all the black stones from the white and offer only the best, whitest and so forth. That is training in patience. As you devote yourself to the practice of offering, that is training in diligence. As you act single pointedly without distractions in performing the the mandala offering correctly in all of its parts, leaving out none, that is training in meditation, that is in concentration. And by having done it perfectly, correctly and so forth, and having accumulated through a perfect offering, a correct offering, having accumulated merit successfully, that is a perfection of wisdom. So in one short, in one simple offering of the mandala you have accomplished, you have trained yourself in all six perfections.

[44:54]

Lilu-sensei. So, you will have signs in dreams and so forth of that you're… practice of this mandala offering is succeeding. We gave you examples of auspicious dreams which accompany the successful practice of this mandala offering. There will be other more immediate signs of success in this practice. That is, not just in dreams, but in your own

[45:55]

in your own conscious experience you will find that your mind and body feel pure, that thoughts of sadness for the sufferings of beings, for the sorrows of worldly existence begin to rise spontaneously within your mind, that thoughts of insight into the nature of worldly existence, into the operation of karma, and into the law of impermanence begin to rise spontaneously within your mind. Then along... Maybe, like, Arthur, maybe you'd like to... I have to go and study with you in Jams Parliament just about this time.

[46:57]

Maybe you'd like to take over. Oh, come on. Likely story. I'm just joking. I'm just joking, surely. You do it. Tell me. You have to read this. I was just trying to put you on the spot there. So you will be getting to have spontaneous arisings in your mind of thoughts of great love and compassion and of insight.

[48:18]

All of these are signs that you are accumulating great merit through your practice. Your mind is becoming purified, enriched and strengthened through the accumulation of merit by your practice of this mandala offering. Now, we've by no means exhausted our description of the mandala and its I'll take it if it's from out of town. I'll take it if it's from out of town. Okay. So in this way, we have given a description of the four basic offerings. the four basic continents and so forth. In other words, we've had a summary description of the mandala. There are a lot of other details which we haven't been able to go into. And as I am scheduled to meet with Keshe Jamspal for another...

[49:23]

class just about this time, I have to leave you and we have no translator, therefore Rinpoche proposes to continue these instructions in our session next Sunday evening at four o'clock. Well, after I'm gone, you will continue with your practice of the mandala offerings, that is, you will sit through a few a few token offerings of the mandala and the recitation of the prayer according to your booklets, in case you haven't got it memorized. And then that will conclude this evening's session. Should we begin learning the four-line mantra prayer? I'm sure we should. It should be in this book. If it's not, it's definitely in the Long Day of Prayers. You must know that. You know, where we invoke the gurus.

[50:33]

Thank you. Thank you. What's that? Where is it? Where we always do this, you know. I have a question. Not to my knowledge, Guruji, I think, was something like that. But not at this time. Okay, sure. Before I go, I have one or two announcements to make.

[51:35]

Okay. Thank you.

[58:45]

and they would put flowers and other things there to worship this deity. And this is very prevalent. And of course the Hindus have equivalent methods with Lakshmi and other deities which they worship and this is not Tantric at all. Where it gets Tantric is the fact that you worship these deities in kind of evocative ways. Like to evoke the deity is really a tantric process. The non-tantric worship of these Bodhisattvas was really for very human purposes. Well, as I say, for fertility... Amitabha, in Japan. Amitabha, right? In Japan. Yes, it's such a case.

[63:18]

It's such a case, you know, is that... Well, that's right, for attaining a happy place when you die, or overcoming illness and, you know, certain very human problems of this life. They're not really necessarily religious in their... The deities worship in a religious way, but the purposes, the fruits that are understood in the deities are not necessarily religious, because they're just ordinary human things that people want in their life to overcome illness. Yes, it was something like that, where the context is religious, but the aims or the fruits are not otherworldly. They are essentially worldly. Certainly fertility, to work on fertility process, is very worldly.

[64:23]

Very mundane, of course. But the tantric meditations are not just this worship of the deity for such purposes but actual evocation of such deities for which we have to go through these processes that are given in the books of attaining the void and so on in what is sometimes called the first part of a stage of generation generation of self and generation of the deity And in the tantras, they will generate the deity in front. It's called the generation deity in front. Now, even that comes in certain non-tantric Mahayana sutras have the Buddha appearing in front. You will find such Mahayana scriptures where the Buddha appeared in the air in front.

[65:29]

I know it occurs in the science world. The Buddha appears in the air in front. The distance of so many talas or altars up. That's true. In other words, they believe that a Bodhisattva could visit them, even in non-tactical Buddhist But it's in tantric Buddhism that they believed that they had machinations to make this deity come down in front. That was really tantric. You could get the Buddha to come down in front. That took quite a bit of doing. which was called tantric meditations. In other words, a tantric meditation means to first attain the void, to first develop one's own capacity so that one becomes tantamount to a deity, or imagines himself the deity, and then he, so to say, becomes in the company of the deities.

[66:42]

and so that another deity can be evoked in front. It's sort of the same thing that is done in ordinary human society when the kids first are taught to eat. They don't eat at the table with the elders because they knock over everything. I mean, glasses, you know. Oh, they are. But when they get sufficiently mature, they can sit at the table with the elders because they've now entered that society. Well, it's the same thing in the Tantras. In order to get into the company of the deities, you have to, so to say, become one Amma. That is called self-generation. the identification or generating oneself into the deity. Then you're, so to say, in the company of the deities and you can generate the deity in front.

[67:54]

But to try to generate the deity in front is just as hopeless as the baby thinking the parents are going to come down to him and eat at his table. and his little table, they never will. You see, he's going to have to, that baby's going to have to grow up so he can eat at their table. They'll never come down and eat at his little table. Well, in the same way, in the Tantras, you have to grow up, you have to develop yourself, in the power of yourself and in what's called the self-generation, so that you can be one of the deities. And that is a basic law that goes through all the tantras, that you cannot command any of these deities unless you become, so to say, one of them. What time is it?

[68:56]

I'm afraid, Rinpoche, he is going to be leaving the meditation for two days of meditation afterwards. I guess, maybe, do we have time for a minute and a few minutes of questions? Yeah, perhaps a few questions. Five or ten minutes, and then Rinpoche will have a quick break for tea, and then Rinpoche will make his meditation. about what happened historically to Avalokiteshvara, because Avalokiteshvara became feminine in China and Japan, but also there's no equivalent of Tara in either of these countries. And I know that my own feeling is that Avalokiteshvara actually became the embodiment of both Tara and I'm chin-raising in the transmission of this, but I'd like to know more.

[70:09]

Well, there have been theories about this. And then even though it's feminine, it's always shown with a mustache. Iconographically, it's very interesting that you have a female deity in both Japan and China, particularly in the esoteric versions of the statue, and she always has a mustache. So it's long. even though it's a feminine form. Well, you can see even the male deities iconographically sometimes have a more pronounced breast than you'd expect for males. They become sort of androgynous. Yes, you see that quite... But is this reflected in the practice also? I mean, who is taught in practice? There's great emphasis on male and female aspects, but in the Chinese and Japanese practice, I wonder if that is so emphasized, even in the tantric Japanese.

[71:19]

It is true that Avalokiteshvara changed sex in China, and once I saw a work in which in which a solution was given as to where this change took place. I think on this island, a certain island off China is where it started. I don't really know the exact details. I read something years ago, but what scholars think was the time, I think it was rather late. It's about, I think, the 12th century. In other words, if you go to earlier Chinese representations, they're the Meo Abra Kutishva, just as you have in Central Asia and India. But the change to this female form really is quite late, perhaps around the 12th century.

[72:29]

But then it became very popular, this Kuan Yin form as a female Bodhisattva, not necessarily in the sense of representing Tara, I don't believe. I think when you say that they don't have the representation of Tara, I can't speak to that. I guess there is more of an emphasis on male deities in China and Japan. That's true. They have very few female deities. But the pronounced use, the popular use of Huan Yin, especially that women prayed to Kuan Yin, and this is very much so, shows in fact how the Buddhists, so to say, adapted themselves to, you know, to curry the favor of women, in fact, by giving them a Bodhisattva that they could worship, and would

[73:54]

fulfill some of the hopes that women have for progeny, for health of the family, and so on. Such attributes, you know, given to the female. Now it is true that in India also these protective functions, more, you know, fertility functions, are really feminine, of course, as they should be. And so the functions that were attributed to the female Avalokiteshvara in China, when the cult did start, were of that nature. That's true. But I don't... I think it is necessary to assume that they were just... because they didn't have a Tara, they changed Avalokiteshvara into a kind of a Tara. I don't... I just... That's my own... But it is also true that the cult of the Goddess Tara was very strong in Northern India and maybe in Central Asia too.

[75:10]

Goddess Tara, especially the White Tara, was called the White Tara. It's very interesting that it was never transported or exported. for that matter, China either, as far as I know. Do you know whether Avalokiteshvara had a consort in the 12th century in China and Japan? Had a consort? Yeah, had a consort. I don't think that Avalokiteshvara had a consort in the Chinese and Japanese systems. Now, also in the Indian systems, Avalokiteshvara, except in certain tantras, Avalokiteshvara does not have a consort. Tara is not the consort of Avalokiteshvara. Tara is the mother. Tara is the mother of the family. Oh, not the consort.

[76:15]

No, no, no. Avalokiteshvara is the chief Bodhisattva of the Lotus family. Now, the Lotus family has what's called a mother, which is given different names, and one of the names is Tara. You know, Tara is called Mother of the Buddhas. I know. I guess I just assumed that if Avalokiteshvara was the head of the family, she would be the father. No, no, no. It doesn't suck. It doesn't suck. Yes? I'm very new to all of this. I wondered if you might just make a statement. This is an enormously broad question of value, about the salutary effects of studying this, as you've done for years, and so forth. We, as beginners, might have a word or a comment about its value for the West in general.

[77:20]

Oh, you mean like the Tantra for the West? Well, the Tantras and Buddhism perhaps. Oh, Buddhism, yes. All of that. Now I'm just wondering where it might be, how it might be meeting with the West. That's just an enormous question. Yeah, it is very enormous. You mean the West that creeps into the front pages of the newspapers every day? That West? Yes. Part of all the horror of that. I don't think it has anything to do with that West. The front page of the newspapers, West. Well, this Center and its mission is... Well, the Tantra always represented a smaller group of people.

[78:23]

It was always a kind of a mystery cult. It's a cult. Now, mystery cults in the West, there have been such, you know. There have been. Who always were a minority of the population. You'll find small groups of people who study such things. For example, in the West there were the Alchemists. There are the Rosicrucians. There are such little groups. These groups are very small in comparison of the population in which they are found. There are the Mystics. These mystics are few compared to the number of people that are in the country in which there are mystics. And in India too, the people who follow practices of yoga and so on and self-culture are always few in comparison with the general population, which after all is just interested in getting, you know, their kids married off to somebody and for them to raise a family

[79:41]

and maybe get a little education in the process, hopefully, or enough to earn a living, and et cetera. And, you know, a decent house to live in, and hopefully not to get sick too often, et cetera. That's what they're interested in. And in India, there were few people who were yogis. Always were few people. So it's very small even in the indigenous culture. Well, but nevertheless it's very precious. It's very precious that some people cultivate their natures, try to purify their natures, practice spiritual practices, because he set an example for people to show a higher path. And so teachers come around and show higher Verities, as we say, or higher truths for people.

[80:46]

And most people cannot do such things. They have to earn a living. They can't just go meditating in caves. They've got to earn a living for their family. So there are always few people who can be practitioners. There's a greater number who can be philosophers. And then the rest are just trying to make a go of it in the world, you see. That's the... Oh, is there something new? You can't take sugar, no? I don't take nothing. I take black coffee. I don't take anything like this. All right. Coffee? Do you want tea or coffee? Oh, if I have coffee, it has to be pure, unadulterated coffee. And what about tea? Oh, I don't take tea. All right. That's very well. Excuse me, a present. I'd just like to ask you... But you don't have to make coffee just for me. Besides, I've got this one on this thing. I read in a book written by a Dalai Lama's brother a folk tale about Manjushri.

[81:52]

Oh, you mean in Norbu? Yes. Is Tara, or any of it, is Tara Manjushri's consort? Is that... Oh, well, some of these bodhisattvas can have consorts, but that is in certain tantras. For example, Prajnaparamita could be considered the consort of the yogin, of course. But she's not his exclusive consort. Oh, I see. Oh, nice.

[83:09]

In further answer, of course, if you do what you feel like doing, well, actually, you know, it gives meaning to your life. Everybody gets more meaning in their life if they can do what they want to. like a lot of people are dissatisfied with their jobs. They like to get a job in which they enjoy better. But some people can enjoy working in a warehouse with stuff and they wouldn't enjoy something else. And we just can't predict what would give an individual person the feeling, you know, that he's doing things that give meaning to his life. It's pretty hard because people differ that way. But it is true that there are, in every culture, in every civilization, a small group of people who hold aloft higher ideals.

[84:25]

So naturally, and that's very precious, that there are some people who will do this. or you call them mystics or religious people or saints or what. And these are a small group of people and so they give a lesson or an example to the rest to show that there's a better way of doing things even though most people don't care to do it or couldn't if they wanted to. So there's a value in these things in the sense of an object lesson. What is that? Why would he? Do they? Why would they?

[85:30]

Well, one reason of practicing different tantras is that there was a theory, for example, in Tibet, where in the ordinary division of the tantras, there are four, four divisions, sometimes called Kriya, Charya, in Sanskrit, Yoga and Nutri-Yoga. Now, this Kriya, for example, especially has to do with outer ritual, Now, a person who is practicing the tantra, like one of these higher tantras, like the Guhyasamaja, or so on, in order to try and attain enlightenment in one life, might also be evoking, you know, have a tutelary deity, which they follow, maybe Tara, Prabhupada,

[86:37]

But this deity is evoked not in that tradition of the Guru Sri Sri Raja, but maybe in another tantra, the Kriya Tantra. See, in other words, most of the evocations of deities which are done, well, even when you see lamas who come to New York and given a Tara initiation, it's called, but really it's a permission, Tara permission. These are done in what is called the Kriyataka method, which was, which emphasizes an outer ritual. You know, things that are done, things that are said by the teacher, or things that the disciples do, you know, of an actual outer nature. And so, most of these, like when Atisha evokes the White Tara, or follows the White Tara, it's practically in what is called the lower Tantra, the Kriya Tantra sense.

[87:45]

But a teacher could also be practicing a higher Tantra, like the Guru's Tantra, for the purpose of attaining enlightenment, in one life. That's how they can practice two different Tantras. Does that answer your question? Why would you sing this louder? What about it? I don't get the purport of your question. You mean different from kriyatantra, you mean? No, no. Why, or let's say, what would be the significance of one rather than the other, you mean? Yeah, yes.

[88:46]

What would be the significance of one rather than the other, you mean? Oh, well, that doesn't... That doesn't matter. They usually take more than one. One of the reasons... For example, the Guhyasamaja Tantra has a certain emphasis. And the Sri Chakrasamvara has a different emphasis. Now... Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to meet you again. And the Vajrapani, etc., they all have a somewhat different emphasis.

[89:46]

Now, in terms of actual practice, therefore, a certain tantra may not give you the whole of the tantras. The Guhyasamaja doesn't give you a whole picture of even of the Anutriyoga tantra, because it's what is called, especially in the Gita, a father tantra. You have to go to the mother tantra to get the other side of the picture. There are certain things that are emphasized in these tantras. That's why, for example, when you have a book like, talk about, wrote the Nakarimchenma, the great path of the mantra path, well, it forces you to quote all these different books.

[90:51]

Sometimes you're quoting the Guji Samadhi, sometimes you're quoting the Sri Chakrasamvara. etc., these other tantras. The reason is that for the tantra path, for actually doing the practices, when you go to one tantra, you find out that it doesn't give you the whole picture. You don't really know what to do, just from reading one tantra. For example, supposing you want to practice these two stages, like the stage of generation and stage of completion. You actually want to do it. Well, if you read the basic tantra, the Gupta Samaja Tantra, you'd have a hard time getting the information out of that tantra, what to do on those two stages called stage of generation and stage of completion. You could memorize it backwards and forwards, and you would still have a very hard time.

[91:55]

It takes a lot more to fill out the picture. See? Because they're emphasizing certain things in each of those books. That's why to get a full picture of the tantras, usually you pick a group. Now, it doesn't matter that the Gelukkas may pick a certain group for certain reasons, and the Sai Depa may pick a certain group for certain reasons. The whole point is that what they do, the reason they pick a group is because one tantra is filling in material that you can't get from the other one. And so, if you get a group, you get a full picture that way, you know, if the group is properly chosen. But you don't have to choose the same ones to get this group.

[92:50]

@Transcribed_v004
@Text_v004
@Score_JC