Very short abridged version. There's a right and a wrong in action. Even the shorter version must be done correctly.

[01:12]

And if you do it, that will be also effective. You're not to rush it and leave out parts, basically. All right, so he showed you, he demonstrated to you three versions of the mandala offering. The first is the very long offering, which spells it out in every detail, the things that you are offering. And each one has a particular location. Then in the shorter version, which consists of seven basic things which are offered, and each has a particular location, that's the middle-length offering.

[02:15]

Then in the very short version, the prayer consists of, the offering prayer consists of four short lines, which most of you recognize from your laundry prayers when you ask the teacher to teach. Do you remember? We recited every Tuesday for the last three years. And that is the mandala offering in the short report. Yes. Now, Gatang Mawar the Rinpoche used the Middle East version, but for our purposes it was supposed to learn and practice the short version. So that is what Rinpoche proposes to teach you tonight. No, listen. No, listen. No, listen. He said, I don't know.

[03:39]

He said, I don't know. He said, I don't know. He said, I don't know. Let's talk about the symbolism involved in this representation of our universe. Understandably, the universe which Indian and Tibetan Buddhists are offering up differs somewhat to our Westerners' concepts of the universe and its arrangement.

[04:57]

So one would have to understand something about Buddhist cosmology in order to appreciate the symbolism of the arrangement of one's offerings on the surface of the mandala. Basically, the Buddhist conception of the universe is that it centers around a great mountain, Mount Sumeru, in the center of the universe. And it is surrounded by Four great continents, one in each direction, each of the major directions. And each of those four great continents has on either side of it two subcontinents.

[06:08]

Now, you're at liberty to think of continents as planets and the Buddhist notion of oceans as space or whatever. These are not, I should point out, this cosmology is not canonical. It is found in various versions in the Abhidharma literature, which is not... necessarily attributed to the Buddha, but for general purposes, Buddhists accept this notion of the cosmology, and it's definitely represented here in the mandala. So, Rinpoche has drawn out for you a map. In the center, you have Mount Sumeru, which is something like a ziggurat and it is the it has some hundred levels of which when it slopes you'll find all kinds of inhabitants in their different realms leading up to the highest gods and so forth they're all located somewhere on the slopes of this mountain now in the

[07:28]

In the, let's see, this is east. East, the Shahr River, aren't you? The Shahr? The Shahr River. All right. Now this is the east. The point facing away from you, now assuming that I am facing the mandala, I'm facing the mandala from here, this will be east. On the point opposite me, the far side of your mandala is east. There is the planet, eastern planet, symbolized here by a kind of a crescent. A crescent with its two sub-continents. All right, so we have east... We need the flow of the river, don't you think?

[08:33]

Flow of the Sokha. Soberness. Sokha. Don't believe. Don't believe. I see Alright Alright, so let's go and... Thank you So, East South. South is represented here by kind of a shape, which is supposed to represent, it sort of resembles the shoulder blade, shoulder blade of a sheep or something, sort of pear-shaped.

[09:34]

That represents our own continent with its subcontinents. Yes. Yes. Yes. If you don't believe me, I will tell you the truth. If you don't believe me, I will tell you the truth. If you believe me, I will tell you the truth. Yes. Yes. All right. So then to the west, you have Godinia and its subcontinents.

[10:35]

And then to the north would be Uttarakuru. okay, with its subcontinent. Now, you should think of this in terms of very vast expanses of space. Here the ocean, here is the ocean, either the ocean of space or of water, however you want to interpret it, surrounded and the universe surrounded by what is called an iron wall, meaning the circumference of the universe. There's something like, really these, it's also represented as seven, these oceans are concentric circles, the continents are in concentric circles.

[11:36]

But if you want to think of them, if it helps you to think of them as oceans of space over vast, vast expanses of space, and so forth. But Rumenji says try to visualize just the cosmogony in the center of space, this great mountain in which these various world systems, various world systems are masses of of land masses are located in various points. When you should think of these as being So the basic idea is that this is the constitution of our universe, that it has this arrangement, and that Rinpoche,

[12:49]

of course, believes that this really is the arrangement of our universe. He says that it is, of course, it differs, he knows that it differs from the Westerners' conceptualization of the universe, of our universe, but this one happens to be correct. So, in any case, you are to, when you're offering the universe, you should think of it as being the whole of These represent the whole of all the land masses or planets, whatever. No, it is sort of the axis mundi, the center of the universe. You always have to have a central point. Money you'd have been saying?

[13:56]

That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. That's why I'm telling you, [...] Now you should point out, however, that this is only the representation of our most immediate universe, that our particular universe has this construction.

[15:19]

However, this is In our world system, there are a thousand such universes. When you multiply one universe by a thousand times, that constitutes our world system. Now, a thousand such world systems gives you one great world system. And then a thousand great world systems gives you the next the next world system, a level of arrangement of world systems, which is called really the world over three times a thousand.

[16:28]

In other words, you get the idea then that though this represents, this is a representation of the universe, that it also symbolizes just about everything that is in there. It symbolizes the whole of the physical, physical space, meaning that space and everything that is in the world, animate and inanimate world, is composed of many world systems of which our universe is only as one small corner. So you get the idea then that it represents the Buddhist concept of many world systems, of which ours is only one. Lillis. Lillis, enjoy. Lillis. Dombakon, that's Dombakon, that's Dombakon.

[17:34]

That's Dombakon, that's Dombakon. [...] When we say that the people of Jabboura are the people of [...] I don't know if you can understand what I'm saying.

[18:34]

I don't know if you can understand what I'm saying. All right. Now, let's talk about sumeru, which is the first item on our mandala. Non-sumeru, conceived of as being external, it represents the axis mundi, the center of the universe. And to give you some idea of its dimensions, it is said to be some 8,000 poxays in height. Now what is a poxay? A poxay is is approximately 500 yards multiplied by 8, gives us, what, 4,000 yards, when epoxy is 4,000 yards, approximately.

[19:48]

Then sumeru is... is 8,000 poxays in height. 8,000 times... 8,000 times... 8,000 times 4,000 yards is how much. 32,000. 32,000 yards times three. Yeah, 8,000. 8,000 times 4,000. 32,000. 32 million. Oh, 32. 32 million, yeah. 32 million yards. All right. Now, how many yards in a mile? Barely. But that's pretty tall. Yeah, right. 32 million yards.

[21:06]

How many? There's 1,700 yards, isn't it? How many yards in a mile? 1,700? 1,700, isn't it? Lowless. Lowless. Lowless. Okay. Then you have, all right, let's get on to it. So you get the idea. It's quite tall. It's in the center of the universe. And it has four slopes. I mean, it's four slopes in each of the direction. It's on the north. On the north, the color of the stone, the slope, the color of its substance is white. And therefore, the light reflected off this mountain is white.

[22:06]

And therefore, the sky, the space facing in the northern direction, did I say northern, sorry, eastern direction, I mean eastern, is white. Okay. Now... Yes. Yes. In other words, as Rinpoche says, according to the Abhidharma, which is where we're getting all these figures, this much, the length of one's hand span, is one domba. Then that, when I'm calling a yard, it's really two yards. Multiply that by five. Well, never mind. I'm not quibbling. If you multiply that by 500, 500 of that gives you one drum, and then that times eight gives you one parze.

[23:12]

Okay? Certainly... Sure. Is it possible to see Yacht Mero as a multidimensional piece like Milky Way? Or is it actually a mountain? It's a mountain, according to the Abhidharma. It's a real mountain, and it has these four slopes. The one facing the east is colored white. The one facing the south is blue in color. It's actually composed of slopes that are made of white duria, lapis lazuli. And so the light reflecting off that colors the sky blue, and it just happens that our sky is blue. Remember, our planet is in the south. the southern planet and the southern continent of Jambudvipa, has a blue sky, whereas in the east, the sky is perceived as white. To the west, the sky is perceived as red because Mount Meru has its slopes made of padma raga, which is coral, coral slopes.

[24:21]

To the north, it has yellow. Its slopes are made of gold. Therefore, the sky is yellow. That's in the northern. The people who live in the northern continent are going to see yellow skies and so forth, whereas we see blue skies, okay? Lillis? In Zambia? Yes, in Zambia. In [...] Zambia. All right, now the beings, they're these four continents.

[25:26]

are all inhabited by beings. Now, as we said, on the slopes of the mountain there are all kinds of celestials living. At the very point of the tip of Mount Sumeru you have these highest form of deities. Now, let's talk about the inhabitants of these continents. Now, the beings, the humans living in our southern continent of Jambadweba are approximately six feet in height. In the eastern continent of Wideha, they are 12 feet in height. How old is that? What's that? East, east. East? Yes. In the eastern continent, they are 12 feet tall.

[26:48]

In the western continent, they are... Just a moment, I have to work this out. Half of that is going to be... They are... Just a moment. Four... Four times, no, four times three, four times three, I get it. It is going to be 18 plus one. It is, um, I don't know where you think you get it. Let's get in. Three plus two is eighteen. Three-fourths of... Three-fourths of six is how much? One to six. What is three-fourths of six? One.

[27:49]

Excuse me, more. Is that much? Three-fourths of six. One point? Is how much? 4.5. 4.5. All right. In the... All right, so in our continent, in our continent, beings are 6 feet... humans are 6 feet tall. In the eastern continent, they're 12 feet tall. In the western continent, they are 22 and a half feet tall. And in the... That's going to be... One-sixth to one-fourth of six is how much? One-and-a-half. One-and-a-half? Yeah. One-and-a-half. So, in the... Yes, in the northern continent, they're 24 feet tall.

[28:57]

24 feet tall. 24 feet tall. 24 feet tall. What is it? What is it? What is it? No, in the Abhidharma, Also, we have a description of these various continents.

[30:24]

Let's talk about the eastern continent, that is, Purva-Videha. Videha, that's V-I-D-E-H-A. In the east, has a white sky and The people there were 12 feet tall, right? So how big is it? The main continent is 350 paces on its eastern... Perimeter that is approximately if we say park say is 2000 and is a 4000 yards to me. I'll call that two miles, okay roughly Two miles for one park say so that would make it 700 miles on its eastern side and then it is a

[31:28]

4,000 miles on each of its other sides. 4,000, 4,000, 4,000. So approximately it is on its circumference, it is 12,750 miles in circumference, okay? I'm calling. I convert it to miles. 12,000. Yeah, I'm saying 2,750. You can all work it out. Yeah. I see. Now these are Now we have the southern continent of Chambudweepa, which happens to be our own.

[32:55]

There, the sky is blue, the people are six feet tall, and the continent itself is shaped like the shoulder blade of a sheep or a yak. You know, with this sort of, like a pear, sort of fan-shaped, right? Right? In any case, that's represented by this shape here, our continent, Jambudvipa. It is... Now, each of these, the beings, the humans that live in each of these different continents have sort of different physical features. They sort of resemble the shape of their continent, so that our faces sort of resemble the shoulder blade of a sheep. Okay. Oh, yes.

[34:12]

Now, the circumference of Jambudvipa is approximately... What is it? 8,000 times 8 is 24. That's 3 1⁄2. 3 1⁄2 is... It's a little over 30,000 miles in circumference. Somewhere over that. Yeah. And the beings there have three eyes. I can't see what's going on.

[35:20]

What would you want to do with this cosmology? Yes. And associative assertions, well, I know the difference between that with Asians who understand Chinese. My way is right. Thank you. [...] It's true. It's true. The beings, of course, do not have three eyes in this seven khat.

[36:51]

All right. Now, now we have the western continent of Godinia, which means wealthy in cows. And it's two continents. It, yes, it, there, the continent has this shape that is a circle, a circular shape, and it is... It is... 16,000 miles in circumference. Now in the north we have the continent of Uttarakuru, which means noisy sounds. Bad noises.

[38:06]

All right? It has... It is also... It is shaped in a square and has four equal sides. And it is also, let's see, 16,000 square... 16,000 miles in comforts. They have square faces. Then we have the sun and the moon which look like, they look like and they are, the sun is According to my reckoning, this is about 102 miles in circumference. Excuse me, this is the north?

[39:08]

Rinpoche, the Ngadzu, the Chodzan Berlin, the Nyingma Tendawa, the Komsomol, whatever it is, Mingxi. Yes, they are. Oh, right. Now, the Sun and the Moon are common to all these four continents because they rotate around the point, the peak of Mount Sumeru, and shine on these different continents as they come to them. So they rotate around and travel around the peak of Mount Sumeru. And that's, they're not at all, Rinjai stressed, they're not at all like the Western conceptualization of the... In any case, however visualized,

[40:30]

This arrangement of the universe is symbolic, and what it symbolizes is what is important, that you are offering up the whole of your being and your universe towards the enlightenment of all living beings, that visualise it in this way, through visualising it in this way, reciting the mandala offering prayer sincerely and meaningfully, then you will effectively acquire merit through offering up sincerely all that constitutes your universe. And since it is expanded, since you are also dealing with these concepts of great space and of totality of everything that the universe consists of, that is, that there is nothing to which you are holding back, nothing which you are clinging to, but relinquishing your all in offering towards the highest ends of living beings.

[42:04]

highest spiritual goal of living beings. And this is training in the acquisition of merit through making the highest kind of gift. Now, if you are successful in your meditation and sincere, you will start getting signs of the accumulation of merit. For example, you may dream that you are seated upon a jeweled throne or that you are being elevated and that the sun and the moon will rise and so forth. You will see the sun and the moon. All these are signs of accumulation of pure merit. Now, also, it has been pointed out that just through this single act of offering the mandala, one single offering, of the mandala, incorporates within it, in that single act, all six of the bodhisattva's perfections.

[43:14]

That is by, for example, as you begin to offer the you pour the water to purify the mandala, that offering of water is the first perfection of giving. As you cleanse the surface of the mandala with that offering, that is the purification that accompanies training in moral conduct, moral discipline. As you prepare the offering, that is, if you're offering stones, you weed out all the black stones from the white and offer only the best, the whitest and so forth, that is training in patience. As you devote yourself to the practice of offering, that is training in diligence, as you act single-pointedly without distractions in performing the mandala offering correctly in all of its parts, leaving out none, that is, training in meditation, that is, in concentration.

[44:28]

And by having done it perfectly, correctly and so forth, and having accumulated through a perfect offering, a correct offering, having accumulated merit successfully, that is a perfection of wisdom. So in one short, in one simple offering of the mandala you have accomplished, you have trained yourself in all six perfections. Listen to it. So, You will have signs in dreams and so forth that your practice of this mandala offering is succeeding.

[45:36]

We gave you examples of auspicious dreams which accompany the successful practice of this mandala offering. There will be other more immediate signs of success in this practice. That is, not just in dreams, but in your own conscious experience, you will find that your mind and body fill. pure, that thoughts of sadness for the sufferings of beings, for the sorrows of worldly existence begin to rise spontaneously within your mind, that the thoughts of insight into the nature of worldly existence, into the operation of karma, and into the law of impermanence begin to rise spontaneously within your mind, then along... When I was a child, I used to go to school with my parents.

[46:38]

I used to go to school with my parents. [...] Maybe, Michael, the author, maybe you'd like to... I have to go and study with Gintama's father just about this time. Maybe you'd like to take over. Oh, come on. Likely story. I'm just joking. Just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. All right.

[47:55]

So, um... So you are beginning to have spontaneous arisings in your mind of thoughts of great love and compassion and of insight. All of these are signs that you are accumulating great merit through your practice. Your mind is becoming purified, enriched and strengthened through the accumulation of merit by your practice of this mandala offering. Now, we've by no means exhausted our description of man, and it's... Did you get that? I'll take it if it's from out of town. I'll take it if it's from out of town, okay? So, in this way, we have given a description of the four basic...

[48:58]

offerings, the four basic continents and so forth. In other words, we've had a summary description of the mandala. There are a lot of other details which we haven't been able to go into. And as I am scheduled to meet with Geshe Jamspal for another class just about this time, I have to leave you, and we have no other translator. Therefore, Rinpoche proposes to continue these instructions in our session next Sunday evening at 4 o'clock. Well, after I'm gone, you will continue with your practice of the mandala offerings. That is, you'll sit through a few token offerings of the mandala and the recitation of the prayer according to your booklets, in case you haven't got it memorized. And then that will conclude this evening's session.

[50:10]

Mm-hmm. I'm sure you should. Yes. Should be in this book. If not, it's definitely in the Landre prayers. You must know them. You know, where we invoke the gurus. Thank you. Thank you. What's that? Where's this? Saji. Second one. Yeah, second one. Yes. Where we always do this, you know. Not to my knowledge. Rinpoche, I think, was circumcised later in Shabbat. But not this time. He shouldn't. Before I go, I have one or two announcements to make. The deity... Thank you.

[58:57]

and they would put flowers and other things there to worship this deity. And this is very prevalent. And of course the Hindus have equivalent methods with Lakshmi and other deities which they worship and this is not tantric at all. Where it gets tantric is the fact that you worship these deities in evocative ways. To evoke the deity is really a tantric process. The non-tantric worship of these bodhisattvas was really for very human purposes. Well, as I say, for fertility. Amitabha in Japan. Amitabha, right? In Japan. Yes, it's such a case.

[63:18]

It's such a case, you know. It's a big paradise. Well, that's right. For attaining a happy place when you die or... uh... overcoming illness and uh... you know certain very human problems of this life they're not really necessarily religious in their uh... the deities worship in a religious way but the purposes the fruits that are understood are not necessarily religious because they're just ordinary human things that people want like to overcome illness Yes, it was something like that where the context is religious, but the aims or the fruits are not otherworldly. They are essentially worldly, certainly fertility to worship.

[64:21]

Fertility is very worldly. very mundane, of course. But the tantric meditations are not just this worship of the deity for such purposes, but actual evocation of such deities for which we have to go through these processes that are given in the books of attaining the void and so on, in what is sometimes called this first part of the stage of generation. Generation of self and generation of the deity. And in the tantras, they will generate the deity in front. It's called the generation of deity in front. Now, even that comes in certain non-tantric Mahayana sutras have the Buddha appearing in front.

[65:22]

You will find such Mahayana scriptures where the Buddha appeared in the air in front. I know it occurs in the science world. The Buddha appears in the air in front. The distance of so many talas or altruis up. That's true. In other words, they believe that a bodhisattva could visit them. even in non-tantric Buddhism. But it's in tantric Buddhism that they believed that they had machinations to make the spirit come down in front. That was really tantric. You could get the Buddha to come down in front. That took quite a bit of doing. which was called tantric meditations. In other words, a tantric meditation means to first attain the void, to first develop one's own capacity so that one becomes tantamount to a deity or imagines himself the deity, and then he, so to say, becomes in the company of deities.

[66:42]

and so that another deity can be evoked in front. It's sort of the same thing that is done in ordinary human society when the kids first are taught to eat. They don't eat at the table with the elders because they knock over everything. Oh, they are. But when they get sufficiently mature, they can sit at the table with the elders because they've now entered that society. It was the same thing in the tantras. In order to get into the company of the deities, you have to, so to say, become one of them. That is called self-generation, called the identification or generating oneself into the deity. Then you're, so to say, in the company of the deities, and you can generate the deity in front.

[67:52]

But to try to generate the deity in front is just as hopeless as the baby thinking the parents are going to come down to him and eat at his table, at his little table. They never will. That baby's going to have to grow up so he can eat at their table. They'll never come down and eat at his little table. Well, in the same way, in the tantras, you have to grow up, you have to develop yourself in the power of yourself and in what is called the self-generation, so that you can be one of the deities. And that is a basic law that goes through all the tantras, that you cannot command any of these deities unless you become, so to say, one of them. Here's a question for you.

[68:56]

What time is it now? It's 9 p.m. I'm afraid he is going to be leaving the meditation afterwards. I guess maybe we have time for meditation next time. I'd like to ask you a little bit about what happened to start with Avalokiteshvara because Avalokiteshvara became feminine in China and Japan. but also there's no equivalent of Tara in either of these countries. And I know that my own feeling is that Avalokiteshvara actually became the embodiment of both Tara and Chinrezi in the transmissions, but I'd like to know what you... Well, there have been theories about this.

[70:14]

And then even though it's feminine, it's always shown with the mustache. Iconographically, it's very interesting. You have a female deity in both Japan and China, particularly in the esoteric versions of the statue. She always has a mustache. So it's long. even though it's 10 to the 4th. Well, you can see even the male deities iconographically sometimes have a more pronounced breast than you'd expect for males. They become sort of androgynous. Yes, you see that quite often. But is this reflected in practice also? I know Buddhist tantric practice, you know, there's great emphasis on male and female aspects, but in the Chinese and Japanese practice, I wonder if that is so emphasized, even in the tantric Japanese.

[71:19]

It is true that Avalokiteshvara changed sex in China. And once I saw a work in which a solution was given as to where this change took place, I think on this island off China is where it started. I don't really know the exact details. I read something years ago, but what scholars think was the time, I think it looks rather late. It's about, I think, the 12th century. In other words, if you go to earlier Chinese representations, they're the male obloquation, just as you have in you know, Central Asia and India. But the change to this female form really is quite late, perhaps around the 12th century.

[72:29]

But then it became very popular, this Kuan Yin form as a female bodhisattva, not necessarily in the sense of representing Tara, I don't believe. I think when you say that they don't have the representation of Tara, I can't speak to that. I guess there is more of an emphasis on male deities in China and Japan. That's true. They have very few female deities. But the pronounced use, the popular use of Kuan Yin, especially that women pray to Kuan Yin, this is very much so.

[73:36]

shows, in fact, how the Buddhists, so to say, adapted themselves to curry the favor of women, in fact, by giving them a bodhisattva that they could worship and would fulfill some of the hopes that women have of today for progeny, for health of the family, and so on. Such attributes, you know, given to the female. Now, it is true that in India also these protective functions and more, you know, fertility functions are really feminine, of course, as they should be. And so the functions that were attributed to this female Avalokiteshvara in China, when the cult did start, were of that nature. That's true. But I don't... I think it isn't necessary to assume that they were just... Because they didn't have a Tara, they changed Avalokiteshvara into a kind of a Tara.

[74:50]

I don't... I just... That's my... but it is also true that around that the cult of the goddess Tara was very strong in northern India and maybe in central Asia too goddess Tara especially the white Tara It's very interesting that it wasn't, that it was never transported or exported to Japan and, for that matter, China as far as I know. Do you know whether Avalokiteshvara had a consort before the 12th century in China and Japan? Had a consort? Yeah, had a consort. I don't think that Avalokiteshvara had a consort in the Chinese and Japanese systems. Now, also the Indian systems, Avalokiteshvara, except in certain tantras,

[75:53]

Avalokiteshvara does not have a consort. Tara is not the consort of Avalokiteshvara. She's his sister. Tara is the mother. Tara is the mother of the family. Oh, she's not the consort. No, no, no. Avalokiteshvara is the chief bodhisattva of the lotus family. Now, the Lotus family has what is called a mother. She's given different names. One of the names is Tara. You know, Tara is called Mother of the Buddhists. I know. I guess I just assumed that... No, no, no. It isn't so. I'm very new to all this. I wondered if you might just make a statement, since we brought a question of value about the salutary effects of studying this, as you've done for years, and so forth.

[77:13]

We, as beginners, might have a word or a comment about it, that it's valuable to the West in general. Oh, you mean like the Tantra for the West? Well, the Tantras and Buddhism, perhaps. Oh, Buddhism, yes. All of that. No, I'm just wondering where it might be, how it might be meeting with the West, hooking up. I mean, that's just an enormous question. Yeah, it is very enormous. You mean the West that creeps into the front pages of the newspapers every day? That West? Yes. Part of all the horror of that. I don't think it has anything to do with that West. The front page of the newspaper is West. Well, this center in its condition is... Well, the... You know, Tantra always...

[78:15]

represented a smaller group of people. It was always a kind of a mystery cult. It's a cult. Now, mystery cults in the West, there had been such, there had been, who always were a minority of the population. You'll find small groups of people who study such things. For example, in the West there were the alchemists. There are the Rosicrucians. There are such little groups. These groups are very small in comparison of the population in which they're found. There are the mystics. These mystics are few compared to the number of people that are in the country in which they're mystics.

[79:18]

And in India too, the people who follow practices of yoga and so on, and self-culture are always few in comparison with the general population, which, after all, is just interested in getting their kids married off to somebody and for them to raise a family and maybe get a little education in the process, hopefully, or enough to earn a living, and et cetera. And, you know, a decent house to live in. and hopefully not to get sick too often, etc. That's what they're interested in. And in India, there were few people who were yogis. Always were few people. So it's very small even in the indigenous culture. Well, but nevertheless, it's very precious. It's very precious that some people cultivate their natures, try to purify their natures, practice spiritual practices, because he set an example for people to show a higher path.

[80:37]

And so teachers come around and show higher paths. verities as we say or higher truth work for people and most people cannot do such things after in living they can't just go meditating in caves they gotta earn living for their family so so there are always few people who can be practitioners there's a greater number who can be philosophers And then the rest, I'm just trying to make a go of it in the world. See, that's the, oh, it's something new. You can't take sugar milk. I don't take nothing. I take black coffee. I don't take anything like this. Cool people. Do you want tea or coffee? Oh, I have coffee. It has to be pure, unadulterated coffee. Oh, I've got tea. Oh, I don't think... Oh, excuse me, Professor. I'd just like to ask you... But you don't have to make coffee just for me. I will.

[81:38]

Besides, I've got this and that. I read in a book written by Salman Saddam's brother, a... folktale about Manjushri. Oh, you mean of Narbhu? Narbhu? Yes. Is Dune Tara, or any of it, is Tara Manjushri's consort? Is that... Oh, well, some of these bodhisattvas can have consorts, but that is in certain tantras. I understand. Yes. Um... For example, Prajnaparamita could be considered the consort of the yogin, of course, but she's not his exclusive consort.

[82:40]

Oh, I see. Oh, nice. In further answer, of course, if you do what you feel like doing, you don't actually... It gives meaning to your life. Everybody gets more meaning in their life if they can do what they want to. Like a lot of people are dissatisfied with their jobs. They like to get a job which they enjoy better. But some people can enjoy working in a warehouse with stuff and they wouldn't enjoy something else. And we just can't predict what would give an individual person the feeling, you know, that he's doing things just meaning to his life.

[84:08]

It's pretty hard because people differ that way. But it is true that there are, in every culture, in every civilization, a small group of people who hold aloft higher ideals. So natural, and that's very precious, that there are some people who will do this, whether you're communists or religious people or saints or what. And these are a small group of people, and so they give a lesson or an example to the rest to show that there's a better way of doing things, even though most people don't care to do it or couldn't if they wanted to. So there's a value in these things in the sense of an object lesson. What is that? Why would he?

[85:10]

Do they? Yes. Why would they? Well, one reason of practicing different tantras is that there was a theory, for example, in Tibet, where in the ordinary division of the tantras there are four divisions. sometimes called Kriya, Charya in Sanskrit, Yoga and Anutra Yoga. Now, this Kriya, for example, especially has to do with outer ritual. Now, a person who is practicing the Tantra like uh one of these uh higher tantras like the guhyasamaja or so on in order to try and attain enlightenment one life might also be evoking you know have a tutelary deity which they follow maybe tara probably but this did is evoked not in that

[86:41]

tradition of the Guruji Samaj, but maybe in another tantra, the Kriya Tantra. See, in other words, most of the evocations of deities which are done, well, even when you see lamas who come to New York and given a Tara initiation, it's called, but really is a permission, our permission. These are done in what is called the Kriyatantra method, which emphasizes an outer ritual, you know, things that are done, things that are said by the teacher, or things that the disciples do, you know, of an actual outer nature. And so most of these, like when Atisha evokes the white taro or follows the white taro, it's practically in what is called the lower tantra, the Kriya tantra sense.

[87:45]

But Atisha could also be practicing a higher tantra, like the Greek is Samadhi, for the purpose of attaining enlightenment in one life. That's how they can practice two different tantras. Does that answer your question? Why would you say this louder? What is the sequence of connection between the chakras and the mind? What about it? What is that particular sequence that you described? I don't get the purport of your question. You mean different from the Kriya Tantrayin? No, no. Why? I mean, say, what would be the significance of one rather than the other, you mean?

[88:49]

Oh, well, that doesn't... That doesn't matter. They usually take more than one. One of the reasons, for example, the Guhyasamaja Tantra has a certain emphasis, and the Sri Chakra Sambha has a different emphasis. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to meet you again. And the Vajrapani, etc., they all have a somewhat different emphasis. Now, in terms of actual practice, therefore, a certain tantra may not give you the whole picture of the tantras.

[89:59]

The Guhyasamadra doesn't give you a whole picture even of the Anuttri Yoga Tantra, because it's what is called, especially in the Gita, the Father Tantra. You have to go to the mother tantra to get the other side of the picture. There are certain things that are emphasized in these tantras. That's why, for example, when you have a book like Tsongkhapa wrote the Nakarimchen, or the Great Path of the Mantra Path, well, it forces you to quote all these different books. Sometimes you're quoting the Guruji Samajas, sometimes you're quoting the Sri Chakrasangira, etc., and these other tantras.

[91:01]

The reason is that for the tantra path, for actually doing the practices, when you go to one tantra, you find out that it doesn't give you the whole picture. You don't really know what to do just from reading one tantra. For example, supposing you want to practice these two stages, you know, like the stage of generation and the stage of completion. You actually want to do it. Well, if you read the basic tantra of the Guka Samajitant, You'd have a hard time getting the information out of that tantra what to do on those two stages called stage of generation and stage of completion. You could memorize it backwards and forwards and you would still have a very hard time. It takes a lot more to fill out the picture. thing, because they're emphasizing certain things in each of those books.

[92:08]

That's why to get a full picture of the tantras, usually you pick a group. Now, it doesn't matter. The Gelukhas may pick a certain group for certain reasons, and the Sajjapa may pick a certain group for certain reasons. The whole point is that what they do, the reason they pick a group is because one tantra is filling in material that you can't get from the other one. And so if you get a group, you get a full picture that way, if the group is properly chosen. But you don't have to choose the same ones to get this group.

[92:50]

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