Well, I feel I've introduced you and introduced us and me too into Dharma land. And where the heck are we in Dharma land? Okay. Your wife taught me that. She did? Cuckoo? Yeah, she said, when you say heck, I should say cuckoo. All right. I feel I'm being ganged up on. Did you get my message? Yeah, and we need, you know, what I'd like to try to talk about today is in this Dharma land, Dharma city, Dharma park.

[01:14]

There's actually various gates and stations, train stations maybe. There are different gates or entrances and also train stations. There are two stations in Hannover. And then there's gate, gate, gate. And so we have to decide what gates or doors, Dharma doors, we're going to use. And I'm sure each of you would explore a city differently than me. But first we have to get into Dharma land or Dharma city. Yeah, and then once we're in, we can use our DPS or Dharma positioning system to find our way around the city. Yeah.

[02:36]

Yeah. But that's for later. Now I'd like to have a discussion you have, or any comments you have, about these... Anything you want, but also about these four contingencies of time. Jetzt hätte ich gern irgendwelche Kommentare, Fragen oder irgendwelche Beiträge von euch, irgendwas, was ihr zu sagen habt, über alles Mögliche, wenn ihr mögt, auch über diese vier contingencies, diese vier Aspekte von Zeit. Yes?

[03:39]

Could you speak loudly enough so I could hear the German, even if I don't understand it? That's it. What I'm interested in is the process of questioning or exploration, where I bring attention to breathing, to inhalation and to exhalation. And then by focusing on the details or the energies of inhalation and exhalation, how I feel that my body, my perception, the way how I notice the body gets more and more subtle.

[04:52]

And then at that point, what interests me is then a shift to when there's a way of zooming out again or expanding attention or something. Yeah. Vielleicht machst du da noch mal weiter. Das ist, glaube ich, noch nicht ganz klar. Das Letzte. Okay. Okay. So what interests me is how to stabilize myself in how, you know, when, for instance, am I actually actively engaged, actively doing something, like through how I'm holding the question and exploring more and more deeply. And then when again to just let go and let it happen.

[06:00]

And how within that there is stability so that I can remain in a sense of awareness. I like what you say. And I think it's of use to all of us. But a Zen answer might be, outside the gate, 10,000 miles of no grass. Which means it's a craft. You're going to have to figure this out for yourself. And just start noticing the mind, the bodily mind-ography. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there's a question in any language.

[07:18]

Yes, in the back. Yes. What I really appreciate is the metaphors and the images that you are giving to us, and that through those images I have a way of actually imagining immediacy. And I found it so beautiful for me, this picture of the tree. The tree that is overgrown, its search in contact with its environment. And what I really like is the image of the worm who is seeking his way through the earth realm. Yeah. Yeah. I can be a state of being.

[08:40]

This one state might be something like an automatic being. Okay. Okay. And I do feel like this worm. And for me, ever since I've returned from Johanneshof, which is now six weeks ago, ever since then, I've been practicing quite intensely. And what I noticed for myself is that there are two different ways of being, of how I find myself or how I can locate myself. And one is a sense of, you know, something like an automatic being. The other form of being that I experience more and more and that I remember and pay attention to is that I perceive the problems with my species as something physical, but above all a quality that I perceive more and more.

[09:43]

And the second state or the second way of being that I keep finding more and more through practicing is something where I just feel a lot more bodily located and where it's not exactly a mental state but it's just a different way of being present that keeps increasing. in a quality that I deeply feel in my heart. And now I come back to the well. I see the well and the environment. We are like a railway or a train. And the experience for me is something like a wave in an ocean or something like this. And I feel that quality of being, I feel is anchored profoundly in my heart. And in that sense, I feel like the worm.

[11:06]

I feel like the world and myself is coming together like this. And it's a wonderful experience. Don't be too optimistic, but it sounds good. Okay. Yes, Hermann? I have a practice question. I would like to return to just now is enough. It's clear to me that each word is carrying its own world. If we stay with the word now, which we just discussed, and we just leave it as the sense of container time, What I have problems with is the word enough.

[12:29]

I'm lazy. I keep thinking of this koan or the story of the fifth and the sixth patriarch, where the sixth patriarch is asked to write down what his experience is. And that's the story with the mirror where he keeps cleaning the mirror. And then I think it's the sixth patriarch who then comes out of the kitchen and he says, there is no mirror and there is no dust.

[13:33]

And that's my problem, something like that. Who is practicing and when is it just happening? When are things just going? Well, deploying this question just now is enough, this statement. One question that pried out of your experience, it seems, is, I'm too lazy. So I would spend a little bit of time, spend, give, earn a little bit of time on why do I call myself lazy? Und ich würde da so ein bisschen Zeit drauf verwenden oder dran ernten oder wie auch immer auf diese Aussage, warum nenne ich mich selbst faul?

[15:11]

At least that's what I would do for myself. Das ist das, was ich für mich selbst machen würde. And I would ask, what's inside this word lazy? Und ich würde mich fragen, was steckt da drin in diesem Wort faul? Yes, Isabel. I was asked this morning what you're saying, what that's good for, and what humankind... I wake up that way sometimes. And what humankind can do with it. Yes, and I answered... And what I answered is that I am what I am today through you and through what I am hearing.

[16:15]

You're going to blame me? It's really hard to... It's hard for me to say, but I think I've understood that it takes a long time to get out of the duality and to perceive the other side of the coin as I'm just going to act as if I understand this. I'm going to claim to understand. All right, I'll help you. But this is about the sense of non-duality, the way you spoke yesterday, that there is this realm of experience that... this realm of experience that's present.

[17:26]

We might say the unconscious or something. Well, I'd say non-conscious. This unconscious has a very particular Freudian meaning that non-conscious does not. Your husband is agreeing with me back there. We're in contact while you're speaking. Yes, but what is incredibly enriching is this one thing that is obviously always there, but which Thank you. So what I find interesting is that this whole realm of potential experience that's usually excluded, all I need to do is think of you, all I need to do is think Roshi, and then it's like...

[18:40]

And then there's the sense that life somehow gets larger. Then there's a feeling of the presence of the excluded part of... I don't know. When I walk outside and I look at the leaves, I suddenly, they always fall, but now when I look at them, it feels as if they fall more slowly. And I don't usually notice that. Okay. Well, this is good. And what I also want to tell you, Gernot encouraged me to write me a topic. What did he do? Encourage you to do what? Mails to me. Email. Oh, because he writes emails.

[19:53]

He's now trying to get you to... Will you read my emails for me? Okay. Okay, all right. If you send me an email, I can't promise. I sometimes take weeks without looking at emails. Yes. For me, they are always the key words that touch me and also create something in me. For me, it's always the key words that touch me and that also generate something in me. For me, it's not the engineer's craft of fine distinctions. It's... More things like aliveness or embodied aliveness, which I feel reminded of when I hear you.

[21:12]

I'm more a spaced-out kind of guy. I've noticed, occasionally. And I need grounding. And I need the earth, and that's what I appreciate most. And that's, for me, what I appreciate the most. And in this... How do you say that? Conflated time, as he said. All the predecessors appear, especially very wild Japanese and also Chinese masters, who have a knuckle and remind me to dive up and not talk to lions. So for me, what's happening is that with the sense of conflated time, the way you talked about it, what arises from that is big Japanese and Chinese guy who are holding, I don't know, like a baseball bat or something bad, and they remind me forcefully not to spend too much time with longish talks and discussions.

[22:48]

Good, okay. So we stop now. Yeah, I mean, my job description is getting wider all the time here. Yeah, okay. Yes, you in the back were going to say something? No? Okay. I guess, okay. Gerhard. I still have... You've spoken in various ways about how we can work with time. That's how I understand when you start describing the different kinds of time the way that you've done. What that implies is that we can deal with time, we can form time, and we can actually create time.

[23:52]

And what's unspoken behind the whole thing as a background is that there is obviously something that can process time or use time, that can use time in various ways, and not without it. without it itself being dependent on time. And that, for me, is something like the explosion, the bang behind the whole thing.

[24:58]

OK. And among other things that dissolves various questions that we've talked about, the one I'm thinking of right now is about reincarnation, for instance. In the sense that it just makes it dissolve as unnecessary. And what really impresses me is to feel into that which is outside of time. Okay, thank you. Yes, David, I'll be back.

[26:03]

I would like to go back to what you just said, that for me the fine and small word descriptions make a very big difference in my own practice. For me, it's... I often have the feeling that an area is not closed at all, or that it is first closed, that I first notice it when I want to read exactly on it with the right words. For me, my experience is that there are whole realms of experience that I can't open into that aren't open to me unless they are being pointed out to me with very subtly applied and exactly the right words.

[27:08]

And I'm kind of astonished for one thing, because many things in practice open up or happen to me differently than I would have imagined or I would have expected. And there are hints that somehow inspired me incredibly. And I remember, for example, that last year in Sechin, one thing was that it was as if, as if you said, after a while, it's a bit like there's suddenly a little more light everywhere. And there are certain key words that would strike me suddenly, like for instance in one of the recent Sashins you said in a kind of side sentence, you said, well, after a while it can happen that there's a little more luminosity or a little more light everywhere.

[28:23]

And I find that so impressive at the moment, that these subtle memories of small rings, which are not so And I am just impressed that it's seemingly small things that before they've been pointed out, it's not like that they seem to not be there. But that they can actually start supporting or even carrying one in a sense that they give me a feeling that I suddenly feel I can have trust, I can have confidence. And so just for that reason, I wanted to thank specifically for that.

[29:44]

And also in the seminar, there were various subtle distinctions that for me are very powerful in my practice. Thank you for noticing your own practice so carefully. I noticed that when he also mentioned that the question of reincarnation is unnecessary, I noticed that when he also mentioned that the question of reincarnation is unnecessary, that the original drive for Zen was simply the desire to be happy, to find the problematic life. That was or wasn't the drive for Zen? That was the drive for Zen. Okay. That actually the original drive, direction towards Zen was simply wanting to overcome unhappiness and, yeah.

[30:49]

For you. And for a few others. And I'm now at a point where I feel like I can use Zen to get into a kind of state where I find Zen unnecessary. I don't like that state. And that's exactly the question. I've noticed that I use it like a door into a state. And I don't even know what the teaching says about it. If you have bliss, shouldn't you keep it exactly the same?

[31:53]

But if I have it, then I ride the horse as long as I can. And I actually don't really know what the teaching has to say about that, whether when I have bliss, then for me what I am doing is I'm riding that horse as long as I can. Well, I would suggest, again, what I would do is I would notice, I would see where this experience, what triggered this experience of bliss. And where it led in Dharma land. And when you enter the return to less blissful modalities of mind and body, have you returned to the same bodily room, mind room, that you left, or is it a slightly different bodily mind room?

[33:14]

I would treat the experience of bliss or whatever it is, not as a state, but as a process. I would think of it as a process, which is Making something happen. That's just what I would do. You know, I was at a meeting in Italy. Not Rome, but some wonderful big ancient city. And there was a kind of think tank meeting of mainly physicists.

[34:25]

And I think I was the joker, so to speak. I didn't say the joker, I said the wild card. Okay, I was the joker. By the joker. But the other wild card there was the Dalai Lama's main translator who also writes many of his books. And we were speaking, the topic of reincarnation came up quite often. And he said, you know, I can't really believe in reincarnation. But he said, I like it so much, so I enjoy it.

[35:38]

Yeah. So we can make use of our stories as you know how to do. Last night he told me a story of his son who was turning to the side, playing his father with his own story. That was a good story. I won't tell it here. Yes, someone else just had their hand up. Okay, hi. I woke up when I heard the sentence that Zen isn't so important or is unnecessary.

[36:38]

That's the kind of sentence I like. Yeah. My job description was going up and now it's going down. And what that triggers for me immediately is the question of integration, of separation and integration of spiritual world and ordinary or daily life world. Yes, I would like to say for me, I had also done a lot of body work in my younger years and had learned very strongly at Feldenkrais that it is good to do intensive work and then it is also important afterwards to forget it, to integrate it with trust. I've done, when I was younger, I've done a lot of bodywork and for instance in Feldenkrais what I've learned is that it's good to do intense work for some time but then afterwards it's also good to just forget about it and let it work and integrate.

[37:48]

And I also think that at the seminar, which I enjoy very much again and again today, the work is very detailed and very exhausting sometimes, as you said. And I think it's best for me to just let it go after that and to let it integrate with a certain strong trust that it will never change anything. And in the seminar this week, I have this experience again that the work we do here is oftentimes very detailed, intense, and sometimes even exhausting, as other people have said. My JavaScript is plummeting. No, no, no, that was a good thing. All right, okay. And so anyhow, I think that it's good after this seminar to then to have time to just let it do its own work. To be lazy and let it do its own work.

[38:50]

Yeah, how it's designed. Yes, laziness, but not in the sense of just laziness, but in the sense of trusting, trusting the process. And I think that there are small changes that can and do occur to trust in these little shifts. In a way, I think that these little shifts make a difference. It's, I think, one of the great things or the greatest things one can take from an event like this. One thing I would like to add, which Gerhard also mentioned, is the intuitive feeling of gratitude. Not just gratitude for what you have received as a teacher, but also for the present moment. Yeah, and one aspect that is very closely related to that is the feeling of gratitude.

[40:01]

And I don't just mean the gratitude for the teachings I'm receiving, of course, but also just gratitude for the present moment. The feeling I mean is kind of difficult to put into words, but something like that. Okay, I appreciate that. And I think it's time for a break. Yeah, so I'll see you soon. Thank you, Professor.

[40:24]

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