What would you like to discuss? You all waited to hear someone else ask something. It doesn't work that way. Yes. Yes. Yeah, he's good at translating, you know this one way. You spoke of different states of mind and of awareness. Why should we achieve a greater awareness of our awareness, our vigilance?

[01:03]

Is it spiritual health? Is it spiritual treatment? Where do you define this as psychotherapy? Why should we do such a thing to have a wider consciousness, a wider mind? Is it mental hygiene? Is it about health? Where is the sort of, some sort of border to psychotherapy? Anything else? I don't know what fun is. Well, I think very simply, and probably it's the way in fact a therapist works, a therapist probably works if probably It's related to how effective you are as a therapist.

[02:22]

If you listen with feeling without much thinking, you listen what I would call through awareness and not thinking. through thinking. And Freud seems to, I think what I've read about it, no one seems to know how he hit upon it exactly. But his having somebody lie down or partially lie down on a couch, is really a meditation posture. And when he asked people to free associate, Pre-association is what we would call, though we don't have to go into it, the fourth skanda, the mind of associative thinking.

[03:24]

A mind that's not controlled by consciousness. So you remember things you don't remember in consciousness. And it led Freud to assume, well, there must be an unconscious or some place where these things that consciousness doesn't know are appearing from. And the simple idea of an unconscious because We know things in dreams and in this associative mind that we don't know in consciousness. So there must be an unconscious process as well as a conscious process.

[04:36]

That extraordinary but really basically fairly simple idea has changed the contemporary world. And the mind which Freud says you have to what's the word he uses anyway to establish a the therapist establishes a knowing which is in some empathetic resonance with the associative mind of the client. And I think whatever that technical term is, I think both are examples of awareness functioning more fundamentally than consciousness functioning. Und ich weiß jetzt nicht den Termin des Technikus dafür, aber ich glaube, beides sind Beispiele für Gewahrsein, dass Awareness functioning, sowohl zugleich und sowohl als auch mit Bewusstsein das funktioniert.

[05:53]

In diesem Sinne können wir sagen, Freud hat das Unbewusstsein entdeckt. In Buddhism we wouldn't say he discovered the unconscious, but let's say that he discovered the unconscious as far as Western culture is concerned. He also discovered awareness, but he didn't develop it as much as Buddhists developed it. Is that enough of an answer? You want more? Come back tomorrow, you'll get more. If I have anything more to say. I walk alone. But to tell you the truth, I'll be lonely once you say something. I am not so familiar with Buddhist thought, but sometimes I have the feeling that today, in our time, there are much easier methods to get there than a hundred years ago, perhaps the thought of Buddhism.

[07:17]

I'm not so familiar with Buddhist thoughts and thinking, but my impression is that today, nowadays, we have more simple, probably effective methods of getting to where Buddhism started a few hundred years ago. Give me an example. Are you trying to change my life? It's just a feeling. I guess it's a different time now. I guess things go faster and maybe it's a little bit easier for us in this time than a hundred years ago. It's just what I feel. It's a good idea. I can't say how great it is. Well, if you're going to make this point, you're going to have to find out You're going to have to find some good examples.

[08:28]

Deutsch bitte. Or you can say it. Ja, modern is best. It's just not true, though. I don't think it's true. I think it's completely, excuse me, I mean, I just think it's completely not true. I was a young male in the 60s in San Francisco. Yeah. And I organized the first LSD conference and only LSD conference in the United States. And I was pretty much in the middle of all that stuff.

[09:30]

And I can... assure you that from my experience, psychedelics don't take you anywhere near the same place. Now, you can use certain kind of biofeedback mechanisms to produce certain states of mind. But a good Zen teacher can teach somebody to get into certain states of mind real quickly if he or she wants to. But we don't want to. If you do it too quickly, we'd lose our job. So we want to slow you down. No, no, that's not true.

[10:44]

You really... People who get into meditative states, deep meditation, too quickly, it's not usually too good. No, I'm not talking to you only now. I'm talking in general. Or people who develop real sensitive, deep awareness so that they feel other people real intimately. They often have psychological problems and boundary problems. They can't keep everybody from affecting them. So often the difficulty and painful, troublesome part of sitting often helps you develop your capacities at a rate where you can handle them. And you're changing habits.

[12:01]

You're changing the habits of your inborn ingrained culture. that are deeply reinforced by all your activity and your language. They're really printed at a cellular level in you. And yet through Excuse me for being a salesman. But through meditation practice you can change 20 or 30 years of habits in a few years. I think that's a kind of miracle. And then there's sudden enlightenment. Which really is sudden. But you still need a lot of time to mature the experience.

[13:19]

Anyway, thanks for your really good question. I did not say I answered it. But if you come again, please come with some examples. And if you're convincing, I will change my life. Are you serious? Anyone else? Yes. I know the conditions that I feel too much and I don't know exactly what my feelings are or others. And I meditate. For a few years I have been meditating. I know these states where I sort of sense other people and have sometimes the difficulties, what is mine, what is theirs, and I meditate for some years already.

[14:30]

At the moment I don't get deeper there are painful situations which sort of keep me there perhaps there's also sort of fear which holds me back Are you practicing mostly by yourself? In a group, yes. With the Japanese Zen Master in Munich. Well, I think your sense of your whole stopping yourself through fear or You know, pain, suffering, whatever. It's probably true. But it's also everybody whose meditation evolves over time has something similar, some bigger or smaller.

[15:48]

And practice evolves through finding your way through that and having the courage to just say, this is all me somehow. I'm going to find the ability, strength to face it. And it has something to do with really knowing you can sit through, as just a simple thing, be able to sit through anything. without moving. As I said last night, I spoke with a meditation group here in Munich. One of the simple psychological skills, capacities of meditation practice It should break the link between feelings and thoughts and action.

[17:14]

So you really do create a new psychological space where you don't have to express something and you don't have to repress or suppress something. You can allow yourself to feel something completely, even exaggerate it, so that you can really make sure you're feeling it completely. And no, you don't have to act on it. It's a tremendous power, actually. And also one needs to find a way to, as I put it, to seal yourself but not armor yourself. So you can accept and absorb what happens in the world and with you and with others.

[18:29]

And yet you don't protect yourself, but you're so centered and sealed that you don't lose yourself. Or maybe better, your sense of centeredness isn't dependent on the narrative self. Or better said, your feeling of being centered is not dependent on this telling self, the storytelling self. Yes, it's threatening. It's still somewhat dangerous psychological territory. And then we could speak about developing an immovable or imperturbable mind. Yeah, but... That's a little too much for this evening.

[19:46]

But it's possible. Close to that it's possible. Okay, you're welcome. Yes? In the Zen practice, how does metta meditation come in, the loving-kindness meditation? In my own practice it's very important. How does the metta-meditation come into the Zen-practice, the meditation of the lower realms, which for me is a very valuable and regular part of my practice? Well, it's perhaps one of the differences or even weaknesses, perhaps, of Zen practice.

[20:46]

We don't emphasize it in the same way that Theravadan practice emphasizes it. But it's part of not... giving any structures or stages to meditation practice. We want to leave it open that you discover your connectedness. Instead of trying to say, well, it would be good to feel loving kindness, we say, Well, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Let's discover what kind of being we are and see if what kind of being we are is a loving, kind being.

[21:49]

Okay. Now, when I spoke earlier about the person coming out of the forest and you're saying, whoa, somebody's here to rescue me. And when I speak about... and say you feel the pure being of another person, and you're of the same, it also awakens it in you, I think I'm speaking about something very close to metta. Mm-hmm. And also, if we think about what in the Western culture we mean by heart and things like that, this whole area of the chest and the breath, the...

[23:13]

How breath, energy, feeling all work and you explore this area in practice. It's close to what in the West we talk about feeling it in your heart or something like that. But in Zen practice it's involved with your energy, your chakras, your breath and so forth. Now, we are all, I would say, we're all chanting a silent mantra. And that silent mantra is already separated. Because we assume that Eric is there and I'm here.

[24:44]

And we're separated. That's the assumption of Western culture. So in a way, I look at you and I say, you're over there, I'm here. There's a here and there. That's separation. It's not in our language. So I suggest counteracting that silent mantra of already separated, you more explicitly say to yourself, feel already connected. So when I look at you, I feel already connected. But I've been noticing you all evening. And I haven't been thinking about you. I haven't been directing any loving kindness at you. But I've been feeling connected.

[26:05]

I'm not joking. I really have been watching you sit there. And so whenever I meet anyone, if I'm new or old or from Kimse, and I say, already connected. or whether it's people or trees, I think it's already connected. The actual experience of that is something like metta practice. We just approach it in this way in Zen practice. And then we discover what it feels like to be connected. Okay. Okay, yes. What's the role of the will?

[27:19]

Once I need will just to sit down, but then it keeps me sort of from going deeper or further, like with consciousness. So what's the role of it actually? I don't... You know, I sometimes speak about the will body. But I mean the body or mind formed through intention. And will, Dogen says, one of our minds is discriminative or discriminating consciousness. Now, obviously discriminating consciousness is very good if you want to discriminate. And if you're working in a laboratory and you're trying to find out in a culture what kind of illness somebody has, it's very good to discriminate.

[28:43]

But from the point of view of practice, Dogen says discriminating mind is useful to get you to sit down. I guess you should start to practice. Because it does make a lot of sense if you think about it. Does? Does, yeah. I just wanted to be quite sure. Your uncorrected mind is too strong. Yeah, we've been practicing together years and he asked me, it doesn't make any sense? I quit. I failed as a teacher. No, he didn't say he failed as a student. He says, you failed as a teacher.

[29:44]

Whoa, that's getting worse all the time. I quit for work. Fuck you. Fuck you. But he says it's not much use after that in practice, the intimidating mind. Because that was fast. It does make a lot of sense if you think about it. But once you start to sit, willingness is more important than will. Because you're completely right. Will, as the expression of consciousness, interferes with practice. But willingness, willingness to practice, willingness to let things happen, this is really at the center of practice.

[30:50]

Okay. You're welcome. Is that about enough for somebody else? Is that something you'd like to say? What are you laughing about, Carl? Thank you very much. Vielen Dank.

[31:29]

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