Anyway, a neighbor and friend of the monastery, Helen Siegel, is here tonight and for a number of years she has spoken to my classes, especially this Women in European History class, because of the events that she lived through and because of the person she is, both a wife and mother and an artist of great note, and she's never failed to bring my students to, I think, a new understanding of the times and of themselves. So, it looks like that heaven is also going to get in on this thing. So, how does it feel? I'm delighted to see all you ladies in some company. Bless you now, Becky. I hope you're going to have this I'm not a great speaker.

[01:02]

And it's mostly emotional stuff. And, well, it happens even in this country. This country, which is a country for young people. Put up your hand if you can't hear the song. I'm not sure that people are going to hear you in the back. Can you hear in the back? Oh, can you hear me? Yeah. The Nazis took over Austria in 1938. and at that time, I was 14 years old, and I had been in a private school, in a gymnasium, a prep school, high school, and it was run by nuns,

[02:25]

And it was a very small school. Can you still hear me? Seven kids to a class. We had lots of contact with the teachers. And before I went to that school, I went to an ordinary, open, It was a school run by the government, and it was a very social setup in that country. They were communists and socialists, all kinds of different people who had their children there, Jewish kids, The priest came in and gave us a religious education.

[03:28]

The rabbi came in and took care of the Jewish kids, and there were very few fathers left, but I must have had a big mouth and apparently wanted to be somebody, and they got angry at me. And you know, every little desk had an inkwell. And you had a pen, and you put your pen in the inkwell. And then started to write. You know, everything was handwritten. And it was a pretty good school. It was very mixed, you know, very different people from different backgrounds. And I think my parents were pretty happy with the situation, except one kid got apparently very angry at me, then pierced me with his pen.

[04:33]

And they got scared. They thought she should go to a private school. And of course, the private school was very interesting and very good. and I admired the nuns, you know, and had their special rules, you know, that the shirts had to be to the elbow and the skirt had to be at least over the knee. But otherwise, it was very nice. We really liked everything. and I admired them, you know, and I had a difficulty at home when I told my mother she had to make the shirt a little bit larger because the nuns liked to have that.

[05:35]

So the nun was more important than anyone else to me. Almost interesting. Anyway. and in 1934, they killed a Frenchman in Austria, and of course, it was sort of a miracle. We didn't know that the Nazis had already come in, but they were already on the reconnaissance and were trying to take advantage of the plane. Then my father couldn't come home for a long time. He was in the police. We didn't hear anything from him, and we were scared.

[06:39]

We knew there was something. But this was eventually settled. And it more or less became the Nazis took over. And the private schools with nuns taking care of or priests taking care of, they were closed. and we were sent back to public schools. So we had a good impression of what the Kenbrooks did in their school, and then we had to go back and stand up for our rights, you know. Now, when I told my children this,

[07:41]

How did you do that? I said, well, we behaved like we used to behave before the Nazis came, and we were standing out against them. We had our little groups, and we met in different apartments with different friends, and ... to the rules that not more than two or three people could stand on the corner on the block. But our parents have any understanding, they didn't want us to do all this. The only way I was stopped, I was here in this country and doing one of my case. had taken a course in the Philadelphia College of Art and Photography, and she had to come home to the train, and she wouldn't be here by midnight.

[08:52]

I got scared, you know? And I was listening if the train was to come in. And then he had to take the trolley, and it took him over an hour to get back. But only when I had kids, I realized what my parents must have gone through, you know. And they still gave us permission. They were very much on our side, but they gave us instructions. They said, don't stand in front of the windows. Just look from the side, you know, if they're coming or not. Then they say, well, pretend you are stupid. You don't understand what they want. It wasn't easy for us, because we wanted to appear grand and small. But you had to play along.

[09:56]

And then, whenever you stepped into a store or something, you had to say, hi, little one. Fooled us, you know? Anyway, it was good. My brother got beaten up because he went to church on Sundays, and we both got arrested for the latter assault again, you know. And the trickiest thing was that we were trying to help some Jewish people we knew. People who were kids, too, you know. And we brought them home and were hiding them. and that could have meant that, you know, if they get hold of us, that they would also transport us somewhere to our camp, you know.

[11:14]

Anyway, the tragic thing was the closing of the school, and we had a good priest. He was a good preacher, And he gave us a retreat. And I was about four years with him, my brother three. It was very good. It was like going through analysis, you know. Eventually, I think the church, the parishes got scared that he would get in trouble. So they moved him from Vienna to Upper Austria to a spa. And you know, the nuns also had to move. They also had to go do different things.

[12:17]

They had to go into nursing, different areas. and one of them was very good. I remember I visited her, and she helped my brother who got wounded. He was in fighting Lord of Trieste against Tito, who was against Hitler. and he got badly wounded, but he made it over to the Americans, and the Americans, in the beginning, were very reluctant to come and help us. Also, we hoped that they would, but, you know, there was no oil or anything really good. A little bit of gold, but hardly worth it. And Jews, you know, why the heck should they probably let their

[13:18]

our heads fall for the shoes, you know? Anyway, the Russians actually were a little bit quicker, and they came from the other side, you know, from the east, and, well, we left this way, and we have to be careful, and we ... We took advantage of all the smartness. And, you know, there was a good joke about the Jews, you know, in the country, in the Western countries, where they were bringing the cows from their arms in four, and they were going through the main street, in the village, and get married there.

[14:21]

Leaving all the, you know, to Poland. They believed themselves on the road, and the Jews said, every time you step in something like that, say a little. What? I mean, it was the only way they could respond. Anyway, It was very scary for them, because they knew they were transported off. Everybody had to wear a yellow star.

[15:24]

It wasn't like in Holland, where the emperor put on the holy star himself. and walked around. No, it wasn't that bad. The Dutch were not so courageous. The English king did that. Anyway, lots of people were scared, you know. I mean, they had no right to really change the whole system. And some of the Jews also, They probably would have had the possibility to leave the country. They said, this is impossible. We are born here. We are Austrian citizens. How they can do this to us? It took them a while to really get this understanding of this terrible idea of destroying a race.

[16:28]

Because he wanted to have a pure race, people who were tall, blonde hair, and had blue eyes. Germans, Aryans, you know. Because nobody was an Aryan, I was half Slavic. I had my grandparents from my mother's side living with us. We had a Czech newspaper every day. We spoke another language, two languages. And the whole Austria was very mixed, you know. My parents were ... Very fond of the last emperor, who died, you know, after the First World War. Franz Schurte. I was born on his birthday.

[17:33]

That's August 18th, 24th. And, uh, They told me that a hundred times, you know. But then, my mother-in-law was against the marriage because, of course, I wasn't nobility, and she was German. And you know, the Germans were very welcoming to Hitler, and he got there, in 32, 33, and he ruined all the synagogues. All the grass was splintered all over the country, and the people took it. It was very interesting, but not too many were standing up against him.

[18:36]

But of course, looking back, we learned a lot. We learned that under suppression, you actually get better. Your character is better. And if you just look at the Jews, how they were suppressed and, you know, The intelligentsia, the most smartest people, wear shoes. Musicians, poets, writers, artists. And maybe it's not so bad an idea to have a very restricted situation, you know. But of course you have to work against them. And you have to tell the kids that's impossible.

[19:46]

You can't do it. Now, the most important thing with children is that you teach them to think. You know, what you have taught them from the beginning on, that don't worry, God is with you. God made you. He's the best father you can think of. And of course, if you have good parents, I think it's easier for the kid to understand. And what you put into them in the beginning probably stays with them for all the time. And they're willing to stand up, you know, against you.

[20:48]

It's more difficult in a society we have here, where everything is sort of Supposedly, everybody is like another person, alike. Which isn't really true. And the so-called freedom to choose the right thing or the wrong thing, or the good thing, the bad thing, the beautiful and the not so good, It's not really clear. You have this a little bit here, and when I came in 1952, when everything was over in Europe, and we were living in a little house in a little street in Finland out here,

[21:58]

They were pushing out the blacks because they were black. And so the white ones could get in, you know? And of course, they had brought in the blacks to use them as slaves and servants. And where was the equality? And it was the temperature was 112 in June, and kids were still in school. And there was no pool or a place to refresh, you know. So what they had to do, they had to open a fire hydrant to cool off. And I said to my husband, listen, what I hear about the school is pretty bad.

[23:04]

Let's go back. This is not for us. This is not for our kids. No, no, he wanted to stay. I think he probably wanted to cut himself off from his family. thought this was the land of the opportunity. But is that really what we want to live in the land of opportunity? I think the opportunities are in every person. What choice is he's going to make? What he's going to do, you know? I don't know. We had lots of trouble in Philadelphia between ... That was already after we had finished up with Hitler in Europe.

[24:16]

No, I mean, I have no regrets that I came here. There was no good reason for me to come. I had a job. I had work. But I thought the system for the kids was better on over there. The schools, You could have gone to the university and get two and three PhDs and never paid a penny. The schools were free. And the kids were encouraged to be imaginative. Not just to, you know, fill out forms or do something. they expected of him.

[25:26]

Well, it was good. The kids are still here. I lost one when he was 13. He died on leukemia. But all this was a very good experience. I had a good doctor who allowed me to take him home, and he died at home, which was almost like Europe. We in Europe were not kept away from sick relatives or old relatives. The families were closer. The country is much smaller, you know, and the schools were excellent.

[26:33]

But we were not divided. It's good to have trouble, you know, in your life. And you can make something out of it. You can turn ... You have enough time to see that this is wrong, and you do it different. I ... The kids were ... The oldest was 6 years old, and he went into a monastery in a school of Hong Kong nuns.

[27:47]

And she called me in and she said, we are very concerned. Chris is going to have an accident. And I said, well, send me home a note so I can, you know, if he misbehaves or if he doesn't do something right, so we can help him. She said, you should give up the second language. I said, well, I don't think it's such a good idea. You know, when he gets into high school and he picks up Greek and Latin, if already he has an experience of another language, Well, she was very disappointed and, you know, I felt sorry for her. I'm sure she was very proud of the English of her country, to be pure English, like Hitler was pure Italian, you know.

[28:57]

Anyway. But the kids know that anyway. Tommy, the second one, who was walking with me on the street, he said, Mom, do you know that you have an accent? I said, do you mind? He said, no. He studied in Vienna. He only paid $100 a semester because he was a foreigner, and he understood everything they said. And the others who traveled all the way to Turkey and to Scandinavia and all over the place, he wasn't getting it.

[30:01]

Why should you limit your kids? You know? Give them the break to see other people and see how they live and what they do. It's very important to just keep them isolated to a point. It's nice to keep them quiet so they can think and can make drawings, paintings, carvings, all kinds of things. We had a place in the country. It was part of an old farm. It was about 45 miles from Philadelphia.

[31:07]

And everyone had a little garden, and they appreciated the animals and the green stuff, the plants. And when I compared them to the other kids in the city, I saw the difference, you know, how they were reacting to nature. and it's good to give them both. We had the museum and all the interesting things in the city. We had the opera, the theater, the ballet, and we took them there, and they drove us nuts because they imitated the soul. Kids always imitate parents, and the more freedom you give them, They take advantage of it. I was making a cake, and Philly was three years old.

[32:10]

I made the cake, put it in the oven, and he said, Mom, you forgot to bless the cake. How observant they were, you know? And I think it's very important what you give them. and probably, you're all ladies. You're probably going to have some kids someday, and it's great if kids are well-educated, and they can stand up against the government. Anyway, Some of the Jews we saved. When I was studying at the Academy for Applied Art, Professor Oswald Hertel had his office beside the school.

[33:23]

And the school he rented from a Cistercian monastery because the main building, Vienna is arranged in circles, and the main building apparently was too noisy and too destructive for his taste, so he rented this place. It was a beautiful baroque building with an interior courtyard. and on the other side, there was a cellar where they had wine, which they had brought out from the south, and when we got bombed in Vienna, that cellar was bombed, too. And it was interesting how the people reacted, you know, the people who were living there in the area.

[34:30]

We were bombed twice. And all our stuff got down to hell. But again, it was a good experience, you know. We were so lucky that none of us got really hurt, that we still were alive. And how people react to situations like that, you know? Like, everything is gone. Now I have nothing. Now I am better. Not that I have a proof of this.

[35:41]

This is all wrong. To destroy other people's living situation. But it's a very good educational thing to do. I hope it never happens to the Americans. Of course. I don't know. Maybe they should go in the ghetto and see how other people live. Maybe they should cross the border of that country and see how they're executing. Maybe they could change certain things. I took friends in Philadelphia and my kids for a dinner two days in the Chinese area, and it was winter.

[36:51]

And when we came out, there was snow. We were full of good food. And there was people sitting on the heating tacks, you know, and begging. And the kid said, why aren't they sitting on the floor? I said, they're very poor. They want some money. You know, they're hoping to get some money. No, it's a good experience. I mean, you don't have to fear, everything is beautiful. Are we grateful? For what we have? God is in everything. You know, he is in every person. No matter what he is, if he is red, or black, or white, he made a person. And God is seeing.

[37:54]

and all he traded. So, you know, I was feeling very fortunate that we had all this experience. My grandparents on my father's side had a farm, and we had to take a train for about an hour going north from Vienna, and then they picked us up with the baggy and the horses, and we had to go another 45 minutes until we got there. We had the woods.

[39:02]

We had the fields. We had all the beautiful land, and they enjoyed that, too. A small village was not part of me. It was a little church there. There was a little store in that village, and he was a Jew. And he was selling nails and stuff, you know, that needed for doing some repair or whatever. and a little bit of food he was selling, and they were able to hide him.

[40:10]

He got away. I was amazed. You know, everybody knew that he existed, that he was there. Now, we brought home people in that apartment. When you entered the apartment, there was a hall. Not a very long hall, but with a built-in closet, you know, where my father used to hang up his uniform and stuff. Sometimes they knocked on the door, the FCS. And now it's at 3 o'clock in the morning. And if you weren't quick enough to open, they broke in the door.

[41:16]

But then they saw the uniforms, and they retreated. But we were hiding people. behind them once my mother thought up an idea she had a steamer you know if you have a cold and you can inhale this stuff that she said you take her into your bag and we had those big cushions. They were feather beds, enormous, you know, and we were both covered with that, and I had to cough all the time, all the time. Well, it's important to think of solutions.

[42:20]

to an immediate problem, you know? And we had lots of those problems. And people followed us, and people apparently got news from other people, who were hopeful that they might get a half a kilo coffee if they turned somebody in. Strange, isn't it? It took until April 45 until we got the letter from them.

[43:43]

And then they said, Vienna was cut in four parts, you know, American, French, Russian, English people. But the greatest concern we had there about our closest people or people we knew that something could happen to them. And of course, we helped lots of people in small ways, you know. But it was the war. It was a fight.

[44:47]

Do you want to take some questions? Pardon me? Do you want to take some questions? Sure, if there are any questions. Well, I'm sure there are. I've got one. Remember the time we talked about when you had those names in your Latin book and you were going home? Well, I had the list of friends who were in the army, you know, fighting the war, and the leader writing to them. We kept in contact, letting them know that we're still alive, for example. And when I... I had this list in my laptop, and when I came home from school, I opened the door, and then there was a hallway, and then there was another glass door. I heard my mother talking in a very loud voice, just not like she usually did.

[46:00]

And I said, oh my gosh, there's something going on. And then I told myself, you better keep cool, you know, don't lose your head. And she wanted to remind me that I had this list on my book. So I carefully took it out. and we were living on the fifth floor. Woke up. There was no elevator. But in front of every door of our apartment was a mat, and I thought, I'm going to leave this on the mat. So the third floor took my time, you know. Would you show me your identification? My father told me that. Always be slow.

[47:03]

Take your time so that you can think, you know, and ask all kinds of questions. Most of all, don't think that you're stupid. Well, it's not that easy to be stupid if you are smart. It's a trick, you know. You want to be even smarter. But it's good to know that if you have an enemy ... So he showed me the thing here, and then I gave him my school bag. There was nothing in there. And then I said to him, don't you want to come in and have a cup of coffee? You know, it was outside of the apartment. No, I really wanted to sort of be nice to him fully, you know.

[48:05]

what an idiot no, it's uh... you cannot always kill people and you know, be against them you are against their ideas But as a person, you don't know how that guy was brought up. He was brought up probably as a Nazi, to kill people. And most of all, Jews. And then, so all over the place. I mean, you have it in other countries too. Even in the early stages of Christianity, And this Semitism was very strong.

[49:11]

And Jesus was the truth. Christ is the truth. Well, we have some other questions. When you came to America, did you just come with your husband? Pardon me? Did you just come to America with your husband? Or did you leave and re-bring your family? My husband was German. And I think he came from a very wealthy Nazi-impressed family. They came from the Sudetenland. If that means anything to you, it's a part of Czechoslovakia.

[50:15]

The Germans took away from the Czechs after the First World War. And they made beautiful stuff. They made papercloths woven with patterns. Exceptional, beautiful stuff. And they had people, they paid peace work. They made certain pieces, and then they got paid for it. And very poorly paid. Most of them died on, what was it, tuberculosis. Tuberculosis was all over there and here. and I think he must have realized to a point that they were wrong, and I met him in Vienna.

[51:25]

He was 3 years younger than I am, and he was ... I think 18 and hadn't finished high school. Also, they had plenty of money, and they had cooks and servants and for the kids, some maids, you know, and he sent him to Vienna. He had an aunt there, Baroness von Fuchs' nobility. And I don't think she was terribly interested for him. She was not very inviting, you know. I mean, he had to sleep there in her...

[52:28]

It wasn't really a castle, but it was a pretty, beautiful mosque across from the Imperial Palace in central Vienna. And he was a poor kid, and he had no clothes. I gave him shirts and pants from my brother, and then I was working. in the American part of Vienna, in the General Hospital, which, you know, I had already graduated from, and they came with an appointment, and the Americans gave us canned food. Well, I don't know if it was beef or beef ham or something.

[53:34]

Ham, like that. Ham, of course beef. Ham, beef. I gave him some of them. He was hungry. And then I got... He gets to the... to the art gallery and to the theater, and we were in a group together with Brother David and Mount Hill in Ithaca, and he wanted to study art. My husband, Theo. Theo, what's his name? And David was very good to him. It was time to bring him in the church. And we had some Jesuits who had different groups, you know, for writers, artists, visual artists, and for musicians.

[54:47]

We connected, you know, and we got to know each other and knew other people. And Brother David's mother, who used to live in the northern part of Vienna, in Krenzing, she invited us on Saturday afternoon for playing the rosary and for dinner. Of course, we took, you know, KO2. And that's the way we got to know each other and to communicate. And he lost his citizenship, his German citizenship, because the Germans lost the war. But he could have had the Austrian citizenship, but somehow,

[55:48]

He was interested in this country. He thought that was the opportunity of his life, and he wanted to go here, and there was a cutoff date. I think it was May 30th or something like that, 50, and he got a job. at the Academy of Fine Arts in Philadelphia, teaching techniques. He and Brother David had started out as painters at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna. And then they were sort of disappointed either about their own product or about what they saw that other people did at that time. It was a very surrealistic time.

[56:53]

And the goals changed to conservation. You know, restore old pictures, old sculptures. And old stuff. And Vienna was a good place. I mean, when you walked through the city, you fell over the old stuff. And people had to learn how to fix it. You know, people came from Italy, and you know where all the good stuff was. And it was very educational. Very good. And then he came to this country. People had bought all kinds of stuff and didn't know what to do and didn't wanted to throw it on so he was very much wanted and they said he was the best restorer between Boston and Washington And then after he got this

[58:06]

The job that they gave me a friend of, she told me about him. She wrote me a letter, and she said, um, I have a job at the job. It's very good. They're making this movie very fast. And he said, if I would like to marry. And he wants kids. He wants to have children. Lots of men want to have children. But when they get the children, they don't know what to do with them. Well, I don't know. It was very good. Eight wonderful children. One was very good to me. Seven sons and one daughter, and she is now professor in Vienna, teaching architecture.

[59:15]

And the guys are all the way, they were just now in Europe at the Marathon. They had the Marathon around the year until Vienna. And they had a very good time with the relatives over there, and they liked it. And my brother called me and he said, the kids were very well behaved. They all liked it. And I said, when I talked to him on the telephone, to the kids, you know, I said, did you improve your German? They said, no, they all want to improve their English. No, I think it's good if you let God do what He suggests.

[60:27]

I mean, He gives you everything. Not necessarily what you want, but He gives you what you need. And I made lots of designs for jewelry and all kinds of things. And I thought, we are like a precious stone in God's hands. You know, He has to polish us until we get to the right shape and are really perfect, whatever He calls them. God is the greatest artist. And they ate all this. How did you manage to have such a good career with eight children? I know that's a question that's lurking back there with some of my students. Such a career in your art, how did you manage to do it all with so many children?

[61:33]

Well, I was very fortunate. You know, I was studying architecture and design. and in the beginning of your art curriculum, they give you all the possibilities of different techniques and possibilities, but then, you know, I had gone to the Albertina. The Albertina is a museum that's almost built on the Imperial Palace. It has the early books, the Inca novels. They were all cut in wood and, you know, beautiful things. And as often as I had time, I went there and looked at it, and I thought, this is beautiful. I would like, you know, If I could do that, I would love to do it. And I never really aimed for architecture.

[62:34]

I aimed for design. But when I, you know, when I was a little kid, five years old, Countess Schönborn, their fields were boiling on my grandparents' fields. My mother invited her for tea in town. And then she said, go, show the countess your paintings. It was a pleasure for me. And she said, oh, this is beautiful. Are you going to be an artist? I said, yes, well known. And she said, well known? I got one, you know, my parents took us on the weekend for hikes in the country, and when it was raining and snowing, they took us to the museum, and the shoulders, it was terrific.

[63:41]

It's a beautiful museum. It has beautiful stuff and great pictures. And pointed out, those are well-known people. No, I picked up the well-known. Anyway, but that's how it works. And then, you know, when you're 18, you make the matura, like a lot, you know? And that entitles you to go to the university, to an art school, to musical, whatever you want to study. And my parents said, go to the university and become a teacher. Teachers are very respected over there, and they are well paid. And I said, I want to be an artist.

[64:41]

And she said, and how? And you know, the parents said, and how are you going to support yourself? And it told me all kinds of silly stories that Haydn or Schubert or whoever had to play the organ on Sunday in the church didn't even have a suit. He had to borrow the suit from his brother. Anyway, I didn't say anything. Behind their back, I knew when the date was when they wanted to see the portfolios, and I got my portfolio together, and I went in with the professor sitting on a long table, and they looked through, And Hertel said, I want you. I thought, holy smoke, what I should have seen.

[65:45]

And of course, I was delighted. And the toast I did on Saturday in the entry hall of the school. And, well, I guess my parents didn't say anything, it's kind of what it is. We have to do this in a nice way, you know. Well, he thought it was good, and you know, I told you he had rented this direction monastery, and his office was beside the school building, beside the school rooms, and I worked for him.

[66:53]

and he was apparently a Catholic, but not a practicing Catholic, but once I designed something. I think it was some case or something. I don't know. I forgot what it really was, and he came, and looked over my shoulder, and he said, wow, who made that? The Holy Spirit? So he must have known something. He was very interesting. And then he was quick to choose.

[67:59]

He had a couple of girls working for him, and so often he said, could you take her home? You know, he was definitely not in the system. and you really had to be very careful what you said, what you did, if you turned somebody else in. When we got bombed, he came in in this big room, which probably was the refectory of the monastery originally, and he was standing there, and just thinking probably on something, and suddenly you said, when I'm the Hausenberg, Hausenberg was my maiden name. Since you're a born daughter and maybe your family doesn't have or anyone has no place to go to, why don't you bring them in?

[69:13]

And I said, oh, thank you. No, no, we already have found somebody who is helping us. And at least, you know, we had those big boards that we were throwing on it. And there was somebody sitting on the other side. She also had a big board. And her father was in the air force. and she was really angry, and she said ... She never said that to us when we got born and died. I said, oh, you probably didn't know. No, no, and she said, I'm going to turn you both in. I said, what? What for? You know, for ... like cold coffee, chilled coffee. And this is what people think.

[70:21]

Maybe I should pause now if anyone wants to go to Conflict. While it's well sublime, you can still slip in. You've got a couple of minutes. If others would like to stay here and draw closer and ask Helen some questions, I think some of us could skip them. Obviously, Brother Gabriel had to go. The service is in studio. If you don't need books or anything, you just listen, because it's by Netherlink. Give a little bit of a break here and make a choice. Thank you for your attention. If you want to look at some of the things, come back and we'll look at the prints when you're done. That's wonderful, Holland. Yeah, we'll be there later. I definitely want to hear more. Yeah. We want to see this too. Yeah. Right back. We'll be right back. Okay. Now, anybody else that's left that would like to come on and move up? Holland, did she turn you in? I'll sit down. Did she turn you in?

[71:22]

You know, I don't need something. She just wanted to scare me. And what angered her was that he said that. She was jealous. Yeah, yeah. And so it was a very difficult situation. I mean, what you most of all had to do, you had to calm something. I'm going to say something that's hurting another person. Can I turn somebody in and hurting them? It's the same with hiding the truth. You have to be very careful. If people knew that, you know, had people watched you, they were very careful. I think, in some way, they were hoping that what Hitler had promised them, a better life, and chicken in every pot.

[72:40]

You know, they had been through the Depression. They were poor. They had no food. You know, I carried flour from my grandparents all the way down to the airport. Jewish people did in. You had to do this. It was an exceptional time, and the way you were willing to react to something like that, it either makes you feel, thanks heavens, that I didn't forget him, Oh my God, what did I do, you know? Did I turn it over to get a glass of essence? Where did you hide the Jews?

[73:41]

And how many? How many? How many and where did you hide them? Well, I usually, we only could bring up one person at a time. We had to have a group, you know, who were connected. And they lived with you? Did they live with me? Well, we were here, and we were staying for a while. and we were pretending that was family, you know, and then they moved on to other places. But it's ... I think the thing you are most afraid of is fear, and you tell yourself,

[74:46]

Keep fear out of your life, you know. Ask as normal as possible. You know, what really was funny, after we were bombed and the whole thing was broken down, it was a Saturday, and the next day we went to church. and people were laughing behind us, or they were talking to each other. Look at those crazy people. They had nothing, and now they go to church. But God wants us to stand up. What did the church people say? Was there any voice of the Christian churches? In Austria, was there any sense that the Christian churches took a stand about Nazism, or did they go along with it?

[75:54]

Well, we had hardly any Protestants. Very few. They were in very small groups. But the whole country was a cabaret, and that goes back a long time, you know, and I think Maria Antoinette, she was one of the empirical people. Her son Joseph was the first one who broke this anti-Semitism in the country. and, you know, sort of equality was there, no reason to. And, you know, we had an awful lot of university teachers, professors, musicians, writers, really intelligentsia who were Jewish, and they were all born in the country, and they were all same citizen.

[77:10]

And some of them really didn't get it, unfortunately, and didn't leave. Of course, it was also a matter of money, you know, if somebody had enough to get out, at least to sweat around, you know. There was a priest that you knew who was killed, right? So there were certainly some people standing up, not the church person. Well, the priest we had in the school was a Jesuit, and he gave us a retreat. And then my brother and I were with him for confession. He was a very good teacher, very outspoken. and talked very good. You know, preaching isn't easy, and it really fired you up, you know?

[78:21]

And then he was from ... That was South Tyrol, which we lost after the war. He was from a family, 13 kids, a farm family, and the post died, and he studied in Innsbruck at the Jesuit University, and then went to Vienna and studied there. And he was a good while in Vienna. I remember when I went there. And then his superiors got very nervous because he was so good teacher, outspoken, and they moved him to

[79:34]

the western part of Austria, Upper Austria. And we went there, my brother and I, visiting the nuns who had also had to move from Vienna. And he came to visit us, and we talked, and then he hugged us, he dressed us, And five minutes later, they came and took him away. They took him away. And took him to Dachau, you know, a place in Austria, and not very far from Lauthausen. And he died there. But, you know, we had exceptional role models, people who really inspired you.

[80:40]

And, you know, we were enthusiastic. We were 14 years old. We wanted something, you know, something great. And when I said to him once, I want to be a martyr, He said, no, you don't say that. You wait until God tells you what He thinks is the best for you. And He will give it to you. And that means I won't be picked from the nuns. And I was, I think I was 23 years old. And I went to the nun building. and Benedictine Monastery, village of Salzburg, very beautiful, also Baroque, you know, and very romantic, lovely town, and the abbess was old, and she liked me, she would like me there.

[81:53]

But I thought, I don't know, I might not be able to do my art work. I might have to wash the floor. Clean up the fence, you know. To go back to your artwork. You never quite got to the point as to how you managed when all the children were young. Artwork was an obsession. So it's an addiction. That's the answer. And then I got this call or this letter that he wanted to marry me. And I thought, well, maybe I should do that. And of course, that was much worse than the novitiate. He was a poor guy, but I felt sorry for him, and I married him. And he was German, you see. All those things I haven't really calculated.

[83:10]

Very different from the Austrians. The Austrians are much more emotional, you know? How can you be an artist and not be emotional? You have to put the fee on your phone. It's good if you have a brain, but the heart, you have to have the heart too. And God gives you the heart. And he wants you to think of other people. And he says, if you think of other people, you are really happy. I can say that I'm not happy. I have really great kids, and one of them died. He's already in heaven. Was a good person. Within a year after the die was thrown at him, He really matured, and the doctor was good. The doctor was a Jew. He allowed me to take him home, and he died at home.

[84:16]

And you know, it was a tremendous experience for the whole family. We weren't really removed when people were sick. All the people were dying. We were there. We saw them. And we saw them in the van, put on a board, you know, and nothing bought. No, it was a very different culture where I came from. I think we have to stop. It's 8.30. They're going to close the monastery. But I think Helen would invite you to come up and to have a look. All right, but some of the, especially some of the students from Elmira College won't be around, so they'd like to look at it now, and then perhaps the students from Radical Encounters can take their time with it.

[85:26]

I think we'll have Gail walk it up for the night. It should not be left just sitting around here. Helen, we can't thank you enough for sharing so much of yourself. So thank you for listening. So I see Wayne back there. For those of you who have read the fantastic article about Helen that I gave out to various people, there is the author in the back. So also to Helen, thank you. And thank you, Brother Gabriel, for recording it. This was a special recording for her grandchildren. I wanted to make sure it went well. I never told them to do that because you don't know what kind of situation they get in.

[86:38]

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