I'd actually think that this would be touched by them. They'd be touched, only to touch their body and mind, drop away. But the body mind still is there, but in time it kind of drops away. In other words, they're free of it. It's still, it's right there that comes out. The same person with the same body and mind formulates this freedom of the body and mind right at the same place. That's when you're touched by Zen, and Zen touches you. Body and mind drop away. Or when you touch Zen, your body and mind. So when your body and mind touches Zen, it drops away. Body and mind, you could also say, is a personality or psychological existence. So same could be said. That's when your psychophysical personality drops off.

[01:47]

That's what it's all about. And when we talk about the mode in which this dropping away is realized, The mode in which this dropping away is realized is the mode of being intimate with the body and mind. The mode in which the personality is left off excuse me, the mode in which the personality, the mode in which we realize the dropping away of the personality is in the mode of intimacy with the personality.

[02:55]

And I restate that because I don't want to say the mode in which the psychophysical personality drops off is such and such, because actually The body and mind are being dropped off every moment. Really, every moment, your personality is being shed. Every moment, you're being touched by Zen. And every moment you're touching Zen, that's your life. Zen is your life. Your life is Zen. Dropping away of personality is your life. That's what your life actually is, is a constant liberation from the limited situation of being a personality, of being a noted personality. That's the way we actually are.

[04:07]

But to realize that, to see that, to understand that, to witness that, It's always like, it looks to me like, in order to realize that, you have to be very close to your personality. You have to be very close to all that set stuff in order to see that it's dropped away. You don't make it drop away. You don't cause it to drop away. It's doing that all the time. But in order to see that, understand that, and live based on seeing that, you have to be close to it. So psychological study, and in a sense psychotherapy, is necessary in order to be free of our psychology.

[05:10]

In other words, therapy has the etymology of attendant or to attend to. So in that etymological sense, psychotherapy is necessary in order to realize the Buddha's enlightenment and freedom. And the thought crosses my mind, but maybe not, all kinds of psychotherapy are necessary to practice. But I'm not sure that that's the case. It may be necessary in the long run that we'll need to practice all kinds of psychotherapy because perhaps every kind of psychotherapy sometimes is appropriate for somebody. But basically, the basic thing about psychotherapy that is required in the enlightened or the awakening study of psychology.

[06:31]

The basic ingredient of it is just to be attentive to, to pay attention to, to be intimate with. What we are and what we are is partly psychological being. So we're partly psychological being and we're partly No. What do you want to say? Spiritual beings? Buddhas? We're partly limited beings, and we're partly cosmic beings. In order to realize how a cosmic being we have to realize how we're kind of kinky beings, kind of like twisted and stuck.

[07:41]

I think I just told you a story, maybe. I don't know if that qualifies as a story. But I think maybe now that I told you it was a story, I think I just kind of completed that story and made it into a story by giving you the punchline. And I'll probably tell more stories. In a way, I think I'm kind of a storyteller. And I think people like me to tell stories. Matter of fact, When they're talking, they don't understand that it's a story. They often have a hard time listening. It's very easy when they realize, oh, this is a story. He's telling us the story. Tell me a story. Tell me a story. Tell me a story. Promise that you would. And I'm happy to tell you stories.

[08:42]

And I just did tell you one. But I also want to tell you that I'm telling you stories all the time. And a lot of them are jokes. And you probably won't get very many of the jokes. But they're mostly jokes. Mostly my stories are funny stories. Like even stories about somebody suffering and so on, there's a punchline where you see it was a joke that they were suffering. Clearly they were happy, but it looked like they were suffering. So I'm going to tell you stories, and I tell you that both so you don't take what I say too seriously, just a story. And I don't tell you that I'm telling you stories so you won't resist me or fight me. You can go right ahead and do that, because that can be another story, the story of you resisting the stories I'm telling you, or even you telling a story called

[09:49]

You know, you say it's a story, but you look like you think it's the truth. You tell that story with such confidence that it doesn't sound like you think it's a story. Looks like you think that's not just a story. But sometimes that's the way I tell stories, like I'm telling you, like, the truth. That's sometimes the way I tell it. Sometimes kids like stories like that better, you know, when you don't say, well, this is a good story, you know. Really, there was a big, bad king. No. There's a story that there was, but you know there wasn't kids, so don't get scared. Just like there's a story that there's a person like you, but don't take it seriously. Anyway, it's not that my stories are true or false, but they're stories. And I invite you to tell stories too. And I invite you to notice the story that you're telling yourself this weekend, and that you've been telling yourself for a long time, and the story you will continue to tell yourself stories.

[11:03]

One of the differences between the Buddha's teaching And the way some people practice and understand psychotherapy is that the Buddha understands that stories are not ultimately true. No story is ultimately true, including what I just said. Maybe some psychotherapists think some stories are really true. But all stories, as far as I know, are psychophysical phenomena. I can't think of any stories that aren't a body-mind event. Can you? To be touched by Zen is for the psychophysical event called the story to be locked on.

[12:20]

Well, some people may think, you've got a bad story. That story that you've got about yourself is sick. You're a sick little guy to have a story like that about yourself. You should drop that story and adopt this story. This is a story, a healthy story, that is like you healthy story guy. you should switch from that one to this one, because this is a better story. And I think some psychopaths might think that, but maybe they don't really think that. Maybe they don't think, well, this is really a better story than that story. Maybe they think, I just wanted to change from that one to another one. And I'm telling them it's a really good one, so they'll switch. But then after they get over to the new story, I'm going to tell them that they have to switch again. And I'm telling you a story now about psychotherapy, right? This is a story. Just one story about psychotherapy.

[13:25]

But there are eight million stories in the Naked City. There's eight million stories about psychotherapy. This is one of them. And you're hearing. And the story is, that some psychotherapists actually think that that sick person has a story that they should let go of, and actually there's another story that would be a better story for them to have. And the other story which is better is really the way they are. And if they would switch to that story, they'd be better off. And if I ask that psychotherapist, you know, if they switched both days, would they be better off? And they say, yeah. And I say, then can they, like, can that be their story? And they say, yeah. OK? That's a story about a home psychotherapist in the big city.

[14:26]

Some parents are like that, too. They have a little kid, got a bad story. They say, switch to this story. This is a better story about who you are. Sometimes the kids have a story, you know? Like, they have a story like, hey, Dad, I'm right. Dad won't switch to the story that you're wrong. It's a better story. It's more than a perfect reality. And if you switch to that story called you being wrong, you and me will be pals. Won't that be nice? So why don't you switch? And stay with that story called you're wrong and Daddy's right. Or you're wrong and Psychotherapist is right. Now, if I was hearing some people's stories, and I heard the story that some psychotherapist was offering as an alternative, I might say, yeah, that story that they've got is really a painful story. They must be miserable having that story. And the story you're telling, that's one much happier. So I would agree. If they're going to have a story, yours is better. So yeah, I have to switch, like you said.

[15:34]

Probably a better story. OK? But again, the meta-story is that there's a meta-psychotherapist who said, why don't you switch to this story? This is a better story. And then the person switches. And when you get to that one, they say, now I've got a better one for you. So they switch again. Now I've got a better one for you. So they switch again. What the psychotherapist is trying to do is switch stories. The psychotherapist understands. The attendant to the psyche understands that what's important is to switch stories, that in the switching of the stories is where the health is. Now, this person might think this story is better than that story. But as soon as you attach to the next story, the contraction of the body-mind sets in again.

[16:45]

And the lack of intimacy with our psychological experience sets in again. As soon as you grasp a story, you're not intimate with it. So now I've got a bad story, and I'm grasping it. And I'm sick because I'm grasping it. And I'm scared because I'm grasping it. I'm scared. I'm afraid that somebody might take my story away. I'm not intimate with my story. If I were intimate with my story, what would happen, according to me? Remember when I told you all ago, what would happen If you're intimate with your story, what would happen? Tell me, please. What? It would drop away. Did you understand that? Everybody understood that? Who? Anybody not understand that? If you're intimate with your story, it drops away. In other words, it kind of changes.

[17:47]

But maybe before it changes into something else, it just drops away before you realize the next one. So maybe you said that there isn't just trying to get the person to get a better story and drop that one, because to drop that one, Again, this would be a constriction and an unhealthy situation to be grasping the story. So it could be like trying to teach the person not to get better and better stories, but to learn more and more how to tune into how the stories are constantly changing and dropping away. It's not that this is enlightenment, the story's enlightenment, and that story's not. The enlightenment is the changing of the stories. It's the going beyond the stories. It's the conflict going beyond our stories, but the freedom in the story, not getting a better story. But I think But you could tell the story that someone would sign up for the story of trying to get people to have better stories, in other words, have better personalities.

[18:55]

This personality should be replaced by that personality. This second personality is bigger than the first personality, healthier than the first personality. And again, that's the story you could tell them. We could sign up for that story or not. But again, So again, I've been telling stories now for a while, and I invite you to tell stories. And I can see that maybe it helps you to figure out how to tell them right now that you're invited. This weekend I'd like to do some walking meditation and some sitting meditation.

[19:59]

And I'd like, if you want to, you can do some too. But in order to do the walking meditation in a certain way, we need to... Rearrange the room. I mean, not rearrange the room. Rearrange the people in the room. Rearrange the cushions in the room. Give up this particular configuration that you're in right now. Realize change. So I'd like to ask you to make to concentric circles. We want to be in the inner circle. If you can't be in the inner circle, please stand up. If you can't be in the inner circle, please get your stuff and move away.

[21:08]

Do you understand what's going on right now? Your body and mind are sloughing off, are dropping away. You're becoming free of your personality. Non-inner circle people, please go away. Go far away. Get away. Go to the head of the pincer line. Go way, way. Accept your decision to not be in the inner circle. Who are the inner circle people? Make a circle. Make a circle. Inner circle, people. Huh? I want the circle in the middle of the room, please. With your step, yeah. This is going to be your seat. This is going to be your home. That's the middle. I think that's the middle right there. So make a circle around that. And could you put the flowers on the center there? But nobody can sit right in the center right now, right?

[22:18]

Let's sit around the center. Yeah. Make a circle around the flowers. Big enough for all the people who want to be in the inner circle to be in a circle. Hey, that's good. What? Yeah, do you guys want a crooked circle or a nice brown one? Or then make it one, make it one. Okay, now would you try to make the circle a little tighter, closer to each other? A little closer to each other. A little closer. That's it. Thank you. Huh? Don't worry about me. I'll be okay. Would you move back a little bit, Gary? Okay, now, for the people who would like to be next to the inner circle, make a circle around them.

[23:23]

And make it, you know, get as close as you can to the other circle. Will the people in the inner circle please get in front of the inner circle? and sit down and be intimate with yourself. And I will start right away. Would you get up for a minute and push this pole a little bit? Like that. I'll put it back up on there. That works? Yeah. That works. So yeah. So enough space. This is just kind of like, yeah, enough space that you'll be able to walk in between. What's your name? Me? Linda, could you move forward a little bit, a little closer? You don't need too much space for the next row. This is not even much. You don't need that much. Just enough so you can walk between them. This is so we can do our walking meditation, OK? Good? Yeah, good. Thank you. Anybody else want to be in this circle? If not, then make another circle around this one, please.

[24:38]

Have you guys come closer to Linda and Julie? Make that closer there. Look closer to Marianne. Look closer. Yeah. Thank you. And then, yeah, one more circle. There. Great. Even. So I'm going to do a walk with another person.

[25:51]

And you can walk out there. And you can walk out there. And you walk out there, OK? Now, I would believe going back on, there would be a .. a kind of in part of some typical of French bugle tendency. French bugle means the bugle from the country. Bugle is related to the word bugle, which means fly away. So the advantage to that, to lie away from the country, is I will try to stop No food, no children.

[26:59]

There's a bottle out there. There's a water bottle out there. Somebody run with the knife. Somebody know how to run it? Could we try to run with it? I feel like I have to whisper now. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Is that better? I think that's good. Part of what I said when I described the retreat was that there would be some instruction and how to contemplate psychological phenomena.

[28:00]

I already do some. Did you hear me? Hmm? What was it? What was my instruction? Huh? What? Watch your stories, yeah? What else? Attention. Be attentive. Be attentive to, be intimate with your stories. Um, be intimate with your personality. Be intimate with your psycho-physical phenomena. And, um, that's basically it. But I do pray a little bit more. Actually, I do pray a lot more, but I pray a little bit more. And maybe I'll say more again and again if you ask. And I even wish you'd keep pointing those on over if you want. To show that I can put out a cross list. And when you need to show a chiropractor, you need to stand ahead of them. And every time you hear the gun, it's like, I'd have heard that before, but it's still really interesting and moving.

[29:09]

Last night, actually, when we were talking on the first call, I was talking to people about this. way of contemplating our experience. And I'll talk about it in terms of the Buddha's teaching of the Middle Way. which I'll be talking about in a month. But again, in this case, talking about it has been no studying psychological events. And I talked about two different ways the Buddha taught the Middle Way.

[30:18]

The one way he taught it was the way he taught in his first sermon he gave after he realized the dropping off of body and mind. Then he said that there's two things that should be avoided by one who goes forth. Actually, it's not complicated for you. He said who goes forth from the household. If you're knowing that, boom, I understand what you mean. Point put in the household. But anyway, another way to say it would be, there are two things that should be avoided by somebody who goes for it to realize the truth.

[31:24]

To realize the truth, which is the solution to doing suffering. Two things you should avoid, OK? And what are those two foods? Multiplication of clutch, that's car. What? Graphing and evasion. Yeah? What's the second creature? What's the second creature? The first one was? part of the process, it's like, it doesn't really say just modification of the flesh, let me say. The Buddha didn't just teach modification of the flesh, right? At, you know, at this point in time, it's not true. It's a true thought. If I was a bit slow, I was finishing this one, okay? Modification of flesh is like modification of the

[32:32]

psychophysical mortification of the physical personality. But it's not mortification of the psychophysical personality. You don't mortify the body, the flesh, or the mind. I'm not saying that this gives you better than the other one about not mortifying the flesh, but in other words, you not only don't... starve ourselves, and freeze ourselves, and sweep our nails, and, uh, uh, you know, what? Eat dirt. We normally don't do that, but also we don't modify our minds. We don't, like, we don't sit down and go, you are, like, one terrible, [...] rotten person. We don't do that either. But we avoid that one. And then we avoid the other one, thought is perfect, which is indulging in sense pleasure.

[33:37]

Those are two things which one who is such a poet to realize the truth will not grab. There are two kinds of extremes. And while I was speaking up last night, I realized that these are two ways to distract yourself from your experience. You got one spoon, I got one spoon, everybody got one spoon, but there's only one spoon, that's for me, this one. I said to myself, this is for me. It may not be for me, this one. It may not be that good, but I'll always work with what's happening, rather than going out, which is ridiculous. I don't do that. If you're indulging these extremes, it's almost like you've been foiling your life for another one.

[34:40]

It's almost like you can distract yourself from being where you are. It's almost like you're not there. And the Buddha said, don't pretend like you're not where you are. And don't do these things if you make it almost like that's the way it is. It's like the last one I gave the example of, if you spill milk, You could still knock and you could take this old machine here and put it, kick yourself in the head with it. You know, just stick it in your eye and work it in your eye a little bit. That would be modifying the flesh. Or you could like really sincerely think you're a jerk for stealing the map and think you're really allowed to be one student or allowed to knock on it or whatever. and find a way to feel like that really hurt. So then what happens is you don't even notice the way you felt about throwing them out.

[35:44]

You distract yourself from the actual experience of throwing away the kind of garbage that's working out and now you have to clean it up. The fact that somebody does it, they start doing it. Oh, they start doing this and don't clean up the mess. And the other way to distract yourself is by indulging in front pleasure. Oh, I've spoken up, so I'm going to go have some candy. Or I've spoken up, so I'm going to watch TV. Or I've spoken up, so I've got a map. Or the medical, okay, I've spoken up. What is this map situation? You need a map. What is this? It's a simple thing that happens. So anyway, so we'll discuss that a little bit. And actually, there were some questions about that. People told some other stories. One person said, if you have a headache, you have to take an aspirin because you can't just have the headache.

[36:52]

And somebody else says, when you're in pain, sometimes you have to run away from the pain. I don't have to run away from the pain. I'm not saying never, never, never. Let me give you an example of a heart attack, which I have some experience on, and she doesn't. So I point out that, you know, at a heart attack, I did not run away from the pain of the heart attack. I didn't. And I wasn't, like, necessarily, like, being, you know, sometimes a Buddhist saint or something by not running away from the pain. But I didn't. Like, if I was a Buddhist saint. But I wasn't trying to be a Buddhist saint. I just naturally am. And Sarah Liu... until you distract yourself from what's going on, and then you abuse too. Because you're distracting yourself from reality, from your psychological experience. You're indulging in the things which you're not supposed to do if you're on the path to the truth. You're not drifting in a wave. And I told this person, not only was I not inclined to when I opened my pain much,

[37:57]

But the people were constantly asking me about my pain. They wanted me to constantly chuck in on it and find my pain level. They wanted me to calculate and affect it. One to ten, where is it? Three? One to ten, where is it? Three? It stayed three for six hours. And then it went to zero. But I didn't die. I just came home. Went back to life. No pain. The thing that survived, it was like, you stayed there three, and they kept chatting with me, and I kept telling them when I was there, what's my pain? Well, what if it was mine? Then maybe I'd be more inclined to go away. They still would have been asking me, what's your pain all right? I'd be like, just a second, I'll have to go back there and check it again. Yeah, we need you to tell us if it's gone down any. Okay, I'll go back to my thing. Okay, yeah, it's gone. Can I leave now? No. Stay there. We need you to stay in your body. You want to just stay in your body right where it is and feel what you're feeling and tell us what's going on. That's your job.

[38:57]

You're the one who's the patient. You're supposed to be patient. Don't run away from your suffering. That's why you're here. We need you to tell us about that. That's your job. So I did my job. I was a good patient. Afterwards, I got this purple heart. A big purple heart. It's lovely. I was wounded, my heart was wounded, and I turned around and left like a good young student. But the people in my class last night, some of them were really bad. They were talking about running away from pain, stuff like that. But that was great that they did that. I had my place, and I got to argue with them. That was good. So I encourage you to argue with me if you disagree. That's good. That's the other side. The other side is Another way of going, you know, was actually dodging things that you could not just take an aspirin, but take some cocaine.

[39:58]

I had a headache. I had a headache from cocaine. And then, you know, I would just bounce off the walls and I'd be like, who took my headache? There are many ways to think about what's happening and not distract yourself by those kinds of addictions. Addictions will take you away from the light. And some of you might say, well, isn't it possible when you have pain to, like, turn that into self-modification? It is possible, like, but that's typically by you trying to make it worse. Rather than just put it like this, you make it worse by maybe, like, pumping up and pushing yourself to the plate all the time and just... Just relax. Do it in a relaxed way. Okay, because of the school shooting, I'm like, I'm just like, this is what's happening. I'm just like, calm down, relax. And I'm starting, I'm like, to hang up. I think I'm fine. And I'm here, and I'm relaxed. I'm not really worried.

[41:01]

And I seem like, I think I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm going to do it. It's okay. I'm home. Done. Well, go. It's possible. Do not be a chicken. Even in hell. On the other hand, if you find yourself in hell and you feel like, I'm a chicken, I'm getting out of here, that's not the middle way, but you can also, like, forgive yourself for being a chicken and say, well, I ran away. Nothing to give me medical goods. I'm doing kind of cowardly. It's too much. I ran away. And what did Buddha say to you? Buddha says, thank you for confessing that you ran away. And I wouldn't be able to go back. So we ran away. We forgive ourselves, confess it, forgive ourselves, and go back to work. We come to the break and say, what are we doing?

[42:04]

Oh, too bad. I keep doing my life. OK, well, I understand. You have to give it, and that's finding your way. Yeah. Don't beat yourself up for running away. Don't beat yourself up for modifying yourself. Just go, okay, I'm modifying myself. I'm trying to make a wish to bestow on myself. Well, I caught myself in that one, so now that isn't working, and that's the main problem. So I don't know. I don't know what kind of difficulty you're going to experience being you this weekend or at any other time in your life. But I'm just mentioning to you that whatever difficulty you have, if it's of the psychophysical type, there are non-psychophysical problems you can have, too.

[43:08]

But we'll get into them later. In other words, there are spiritual problems which aren't psychophysical problems. But for the psychophysical ones, because they're going to be related to psychological phenomena, they're both within the way we try to be causing everyone, whatever they are, for the rest of your life. And I would like you to feel confident that if you can be with yourself in that way, you are doing the same practice that all the enlightened beings that I've ever heard of have done. Some people have, again, gotten in tremendous pain, but not really relaxed enough. Some of these people would be self-modification,

[44:09]

They really didn't miss a lot of situations, but they aren't really settled and intimate with it. The Buddha himself was a super champion at modifying himself physically and emotionally before he got balanced. But he wasn't intimate with himself when he was in his state. He got so weak, he couldn't be intimate. If you're too weak, you don't have the energy to be intimate with your energy. And you don't just sit a week that way without trying to get better. So if you get too weak or too strong, you can with its experience and realize in Buddhahood Again, you know, I just told you about the snacks, the treats and stuff.

[45:21]

So you can get those treats, but be careful. If you eat those candy bars, please check out whether you're eating the candy bars to distract yourself from what it feels like to be you. Really, what are you trying to do with that candy bar? Eating that as a practice of helping yourself, like really be yourself, or if it's a slight vacation from being you. What are you up to here eating the candy bar? I can see, you know, and if you go to buy the candy bar, are you buying the candy bars to help Madame and the landscape projects? What are you going to do with the candy bar? Who are you going to feed it to? Who can you give this candy bar to that's enlightened enough to feed it without it being distracted?

[46:25]

You say, well, probably the teacher of this community would do. So you could probably buy the candy bar, take it to him. He probably will not use it as a distraction. He might, but we can't be sure. But he'd probably just take the candy bar and go put it back in the store. I would guess. But you can walk and see what it does. And if he eats it, you can ask him, did you distract yourself in the middle of the way when you ate that? And if he eats it, you can ask him, did you distract yourself in the middle of the way when you ate that? And then he can write on the little board what he did. Yes, no. There's something else he might write there. So everything we do is an opportunity to check out, what are you up to here? Is it a gesture, a little card with the Internet with itself?

[47:30]

You know? Like I'm having fun at home, and I'm just helping the Internet with my life, the whole of this. In the next world, the Buddha taught the Middle Way was a little more subtle, and that is, you basically said, um, that the Middle Way is the, the, the one question of harmony. A good good example of it can be, Some of the things that's been brought up in the stories, like the example of just the being that started from the moment he was born. And what it did was, everything really started to exist. And it just couldn't do it. But he forgot. It could have been bad. And then he went on to say that most often in the series, they realize the middle way.

[48:37]

And he said the middle way was, I mean, he told the story about how things happen. about how psychological phenomena arise. In other words, if you avoid the V, you can see, actually, what we are as a psychological phenomenon. You can see how the volume line seems to come up and sometimes it's grasped and caused questioning, and you can see how the body knows it's not grasped, and how it's backed away and re-realized through them. We can recall how this was in the context of relinquishing all his views. There's another way to metaphorically on what's happening, in other words, to study what's happening in a mutual way. In other words, we listen to the brain, don't trust it. It's very simple. There's lots of information, but lots of people don't know the way to deal with that.

[49:38]

It's not about what to do with that. It's whatever way you have, whatever make up the drug, it's silly. We just let it drop. And so I am. The story comes to mind, it's a silly little story, but, you know, it's a story that came to mind. Here's another story. Ready for another story? Anybody want to tell a story before I tell a story?

[50:40]

Okay, well, some of you heard the story before, but every time I tell the story again, it's an opportunity for you to see if you can listen to it again, just like I had an opportunity to tell it again. I wonder how many times I'll tell the story. Probably quite a few more, because My wife told me that she doesn't want me to tell stories about her anymore. I shouldn't have told that one. But this is one I've told already so many times, it's already out there, so you know. Actually, I'll just sort of give a hint and somebody else can tell the story, OK? So it's a story about when I was driving with my wife and I saw a traffic jam, OK? So who knows that story? You know that story, Gwen? Would you come here and tell it? I remember the first one.

[51:42]

Well, we see now this place. I'll go out and tell it. It won't be the same. Okay. Oh, look. I'm in the traffic jam, and you twitched, Wayne, thinking that you were going to. No, I didn't switch lanes. I took a left. OK, you took a left. Why did I take a left? You thought you were going to avoid the traffic jam. Right. And you said, that was the stupidest thing ever. No, no, no. There's no way to avoid the traffic jam. I took a left to avoid the traffic jam. And then what happened? Before I said that, it was stupid. What happened after I took a left to avoid the traffic jam? You didn't avoid the traffic jam. I got into a work traffic jam. Not an equally bad pathogen. Right? Right. Does that sound familiar? Yes. And then, and then you said, this was the stupidest thing I've ever done.

[52:44]

That was the stupidest thing. You're making it very difficult. This is difficult, but the next one will be easier. OK. And then your wife said, even when you're... Even when you confess. Even when you confess, you're complimenting yourself. You give yourself a compliment. You know, we watch how fast they get this one. Usually people laugh in waves. The smart people thirst. And then about a half an hour later, some dumb person goes, Oh, I did? It took me about a half an hour to get it. I said, what'd you talk about? Oh, I think. Anybody not get this joke yet? Huh? You didn't get it? Okay, can you tell it?

[53:46]

Tell the story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? Even when I confess? Yeah, you didn't get it? I said that was the stupidest thing I ever did, right? Now, if that was the stupidest thing I ever did, that would be a big compliment to me. If the stupid thing I ever did was to turn left into a traffic jam, I'd be doing pretty well, don't you think? In fact, I have done much more stupid things than that.

[54:46]

And I'll tell you all of them in a minute. I'll start telling you. And then you all go to sleep, counting your blessings. So yeah, so that's what she said. So that's the story. OK, now why did I tell that story? Hm? . I did? No, no, I didn't say that. I said I would start in a minute. Right. And I would keep telling them, counting their blessings, that you weren't as bad as me. Now, why did I bring that story up? You know why? No, it's not it.

[55:48]

I mean, there's some other reasons. It was in a context. What was the context there about the story, I think? Hm? What? Copy of these. Copy of these. What else? No. [...] How was it? Was it good? Yep. Hmm? Avoiding the pain? Yep. Yeah, yeah. . [...] And so, actually, I told the wrong story.

[57:11]

It was a good story, wasn't it? Especially having Gwen tell us. This is the best way to do it. Have other people tell my stories. This is what's called oral transmission. That's why I have to fiddle with it, so you know. Okay, now there's another story, which is also out there. But this story more directly relates to... What's your name? My name is Dada. This is a story I'll just tell you at the beginning. I was having dinner with my wife and another couple. And the man in the couple... I'll tell you what it is. It's Roger Walsh and the man, the man, the professor of UC Irvine. Who knows this story? Paul? Paul knows this story? I'm going to get this wrong, but I'm learning it. Yeah. And so the two couples were having dinner and...

[58:16]

are actually definite words. They're not talking like a story. They're an exact . That's why . And Roger at dinner said, who was a professor at UC Irvine. My wife said to Roger. Your wife said to Roger. What is Irvine like? And Roger said, it's wonderful. It's beautiful. And you said, no, your wife said, oh, I'm sorry, his wife said, no, it's not. It's awful, terrible, ugly. And his wife said, it's ugly. And then he said, yes, it's ugly.

[59:19]

I'm not, is that the end? Okay. Oh, it's not the end. No, not the end. It's not the end. We're still here. This story goes on. I don't remember that part of the story. So Roger said, It's beautiful. His wife says, no, it's not. It's ugly. Roger says, it's ugly. My wife turns to me and says, you should learn that. Now that relates to giving up your view. Roger had a view. Irvine's beautiful. His wife said, it's ugly. He just gave it up. He just gave it up. It's other way. Now, I said, I should learn. In other words, my life's boy was telling me, you should learn to practice the middle way.

[60:24]

You should learn to practice renouncing your view of what's going on, dropping it. Now, when I tell that story, sometimes people, both male and female people, say, Well, that's kind of like turning into a doorknob or something, isn't it? Isn't that kind of like, I don't know what, being a wimp? Or what? It's not being, it's actually not really being strong or weak, it's being a Buddha. Now, people think, oh, being a Buddha is a bigger deal than that, but actually it's a little thing like that. So now, you know, If she wants to do something, like I don't know what, but she wants to do something, she tells me, I want to do that thing. And I'd like you to do it with me. And I say, I don't want to do that. She says, yes, you do. And I say, yes, I do. Now, I still don't want to do it. But I just say I do.

[61:28]

It's not that I'm lying. It's just I'm saying, oh, yeah, I do. And right there, while I don't want to do it, I say, I do want to do it. If I didn't have that view, it wouldn't count to say I don't have that view. It wouldn't be dropping unless I had it. And I'll tell you, when I go from I don't want to do that and I say I do want to do that, I'm free. I'm free. But more important than being free from that, I'm also in the mode are toxic. It's not just that you can let it go, even. But between letting it go, you enter into the real of contemplating what's going on. The how to look to reality. When you can do a simple, cool thing, like say something opposite of what you just said, rather than, you know, well, what I say is really important. You can't immediately switch what I think.

[62:32]

You know, if I say something like, It's ugly. It's not a small matter to switch to, like, it's beautiful. Like, you know, I'll be compromising my integrity if I would say the opposite. My integrity depends on, you know, my words. Even though I didn't just switch, you know, to get... I didn't just switch to get my wife to like me. Although she will when I switch. I switched to see if I could switch. I switched to see if I could move my mouth a different way. And I can. You can do this. But it's not like you're lying. And it's not like you're telling the truth before when you say it's ugly. What you really know is, I think it's ugly. I think I don't want to do that. I think I don't want to do that. Oh, yes, you do. Oh, yes, I do. I do.

[63:34]

I want to do it. But it's not like, no, that's true. I do want to do it. It's more like, I just figured out the switch. So this is the mode in which to study. So now, again, I guess my view, my experience is you're having experiences. That's my experience. You're having experiences. I'm not too wrong. That's my view. Tell me I'm not a switch. But whatever experiences you're having, whatever experiences you're having, you have an opportunity in your life that you're aware of what's going on. And particularly if somebody asks you to, like you think, oh, I'm miserable. And your wife says, no, you're not. You're happy. You're happy. You don't feel any different, really. You just say something different because you told me to say something different. Well, why not? Is that something better to do? Yeah, I do.

[64:35]

I want to say again, I'm not happy. I want to stay where I was. I don't want to go to the trouble of saying something different because you said so. This is called body, mind, not . This is like, I'm stuck. What my thinking is giving is so serious, it can't move. My attitudes are so real and so serious and so important, they can't be moved around. Yeah, so that's how you get started. And so the practice, just like the practice, I mean, you don't really have to train them to be flexible, but practice that, like, try. For a little while, pretend, as it's all used to, which, like, somebody says, I'm a man. I may not be a woman. I'm a woman. Just try it. People kill for it. The picture really takes you up. You know, like, we'll build it. What if I used to be something different because I wanted to be a woman?

[65:37]

I don't remember. But you can remember. You can remember, I used to be a man, now I'm a woman. So now you can remember, but if you used to be a man, now you're a woman, maybe you can talk to a masculine woman for a bit. But it could be something else. Well, the only thing is possible. Things don't like pop. So what's happening right now? You got enough story? What is it? And then somehow, No, I didn't say, OK. I didn't say, OK, I'll do that. But I could say that. You're telling another story, which is fine.

[66:37]

No. So you tell a story. This is this. I want to do this. I say I don't want to do this yet. And she says. And then I say, yes, I do. Instead of that, you have another story. Which is? Here it comes, folks. Remember what I told you about before? Here it is. No, thank you. A real-life case up there. Right. So some people come up to you. Yes. Yes.

[67:40]

Yeah, that's the story I just told. Yeah, collapsing, doormat. Collapsing, seems like a... Well, that's when doormats are out there and they fall down. But like this, this is called collapsing, right? This is a doormat. But anyway... Can you tell me that? Oh, I want to tell a story again. And the story is, somebody says, I want to do this with you. And you say, I don't want to do this. And then they say, yes, you do. And you say, yes, I do. And then you watch the story. And you say, isn't there some way to do this without collapsing? You say, it's hard to do. Then you say, that guy collapsed. You go ask the guy, did he collapse? And he said, no, I didn't collapse. You say, well, I think you did. And you say, well, I did. So now you collapsed again. He said, yeah, I did.

[68:51]

He said, now you collapsed when you didn't. I said, I'm glad you didn't. I'm totally collapsed. Look at you. And gradually realize that this collapsed person is totally alive in what you call collapse. And he respects you. And do you respect him? Do you respect him in his collapsed state? Yeah. So we're working it out, aren't we? We're looking at you calling me Collette. I'm saying, fine. You're saying I hate that. I say, oh, really? And then I say, what do you want? I say, you want me to be some different way? And you say, yeah. And you say, tell me how you want me to be. You say, no, I'm not going to be, because then you'll be that way. Huh? Yeah. So you won't tell me how you want me to be, because you're afraid I will be. Right? And I let you do that for a while. And then I say, Betty, tell me how you want me to be. And then I say, Betty, do you feel like I'm being respectful to you?

[69:52]

Do you? Are we working it out? And so how do you want it to work out? Yes. Yes. I understand that.

[70:56]

However, the way you said it was when you see something that goes counter to it. In other words, when you interpret something as counter to it. Well, if anybody said to me, if I say I don't like text, And then somebody says to me, yes, you do. And I say, yes, I do. I do not do that to please them. And I do not, if I think about it, I'm not doing it for a reason, but I do not in any way do this thing that you're really worried about, which I'm also worried about, which is called betray yourself. But the person said to me, you know, do you, now you said you didn't want to do that, and I said, yes, you do.

[72:08]

And then you said, yes, I do. Now, did you betray yourself at that time? You ask me. I might say, nope. I might say, no, I didn't. However, actually, when you said that, I want you to stick in a different person who I can be with you. Or I still don't want to do it, but I want you to do that. The permission. But until the person I was before me, I don't want to do that. It was much more interesting than me not doing that thing. I mean, what was the thing? I would go to a restaurant and have dinner. Was that it? That's usually what it is. I never want to go to restaurants, almost never, ever, with anybody. But I'd give it up and go to restaurants with people. Not going to the restaurant and getting my way is not what I want.

[73:14]

Doing what I like is not what I want. It's not what I want in this life. It's not. Definitely not. What I want is to be free of what I want. And if that, by any chance, pleases anybody else, well, great. Now, if it doesn't free somebody else, well, I'm sorry, because that's what I really want, is to be free of what I want, to not be stuck in my personality. My personality is I don't want to go to restaurants. I don't like going to restaurants. That's my personality. I like to eat in Zen Center. Particularly, I like to eat in the Zendo. where they serve me. In traditional Zen style.

[74:17]

And it's a ceremony. And the food is very simple and I eat very mindfully. I don't like to go places where there's all that rich food and all that noise. I don't like that. But for me, a Zen priest, what I want is not to get to be a Zen priest. And I don't betray being a Zen priest when I give it up. I realized the point of being a Zen priest. Now, if you feel that you don't know how to give something up and experience what a joy that is to give it up, and you can feel that you're betraying yourself, then you don't do that yet. Then you say, I can't change because if I change, I'll betray myself. I'm not going to. And I feel like you're asking me to change, not because you respect me, I don't feel like you're asking me to change because you respect me. I don't feel like you're asking me to change because you disrespect my position. And because you disrespect my position, I've outspoken you for a while.

[75:20]

So you respect me because that's what I'm here for. I'm here to be respected. I'm not really attached to this position, but I just don't want you to get confused. To think that I'm playing along with you disrespecting me. My wife really respects me They just want me to be able to get free of the person who respects. If she respects me, even when I'm, like, stuck in my thing, right? I don't know. They work it out? Hmm. We can work it out. We can work it out. Yes? When you say we're going to do it and you don't, you say you're going to do it and you don't, or you say you want to do it and you don't want to do it? .

[76:28]

Your heart points to you. What do you mean? For example, what does your heart want to do that you're not sure your heart wants to do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, almost, yeah, there's always a battle. Fine. Always a battle. Sometimes a battle. Never the battle would be very strange. Occasionally the shift is difficult, must be. But the normal, that it's difficult sometimes to make the switch. Sometimes it's... What? Women are more stuck in themselves than men? Women are more stuck in themselves than men? Well, but whatever you are, okay, if your personality is, okay, I'm a woman, I'm serving, I'm empathic, that's my personality.

[77:51]

I got this kind of woman's personality, it's observing, empathic, that's your thing, right? Huh? Now, what is it? Let's hear it. What is your personality? You have a question? Yes. You could say that. Did you say that? Well, what you need to do in this context is you need to complete the method left to par. You need to know what it is. And then let it drop.

[78:27]

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