So all of these instructions from Hongxue are kind of guidelines to the texture of just sitting or silent illumination. And particularly this idea of silent illumination and the balancing of that and the subtlety of the balancing of that is a way of checking our just sitting practice, settling, being quiet, but also appreciating the arising of energy. and taking care of balancing the two so we don't get too far over to one side or the other. So this is a kind of postural suggestion in a way. So we have a little more time now, and we have time this evening. And what I was hoping we'd get to, and maybe we can actually, is just to kind of hang out with Hongzhi and read various things. I have other things I prepared that I could talk about. Really, I'd rather just kind of open the book at random and talk about it with you.

[01:04]

Or just at this point, we've spent some time on Hongxia now. We're ready to kind of get started in a way. Are there any comments or questions at this point? A couple. Yeah, first. What comes first and what comes later? Well, I don't know, first of all, I have to say. But I used to kind of feel like there is definitely this holographic quality where the whole process is in each section, each paragraph. And yet, I think there is some pattern. So just like I talked about, the beginning sets out this idea of Buddha nature, and then it, towards the last few, talks more about the expression side, graciously sharing yourself, or casting off all duality.

[02:08]

The last several, he starts to get, he also talks about the sixth ancestor. He gets more into the development of it towards the end. Other than that, the compiler says that he arranged them. These are from various little talks that Hangzhou gave. So I don't think there's so much, but there is that difference between the first and the last instruction about seeing and colors and hearing and sounds and so forth. So there's a little bit of some dimension in there of some shifting, but it's also all through it. So for myself, I just can open it anywhere and enjoy it, and other people seem to do the same, but there's a little bit of some progression. But there may be more that I'm just not seeing, I don't know, but I don't think so.

[03:12]

Yes, Yohan, you had a question? There's a line in the Guideposts for Ascended One Elimination that says, Facing changes has its principles. The great function is without strategy. How would you describe the great function? The whole thing, the whole process, the great function is the process and practice of awareness, of turning within and coming forth with dharma, with awareness, with illumination. So the whole, there's a kind of process of settling and illumination that he's talking about here. It's without striving. So there's this whole kind of paradoxical issue about effort and what is our effort and what is the Buddha's work.

[04:16]

And in some sense, there's no striving. It's just meeting suchness as it arises. But then there's also the, and in Taoism, they talk about effortless effort. So in that sense, it's without striving, but there is also this necessity to pay attention, to investigate, to wonder, to question, to show up, I guess what I was thinking is that early on, just before we went to bed, you said, what was the purpose of Buddhism? And I was thinking that you were speaking of service, but not service as defined, but more like a willingness to serve. Is that the great function? Yeah, but it's not service that's seen in any partial way. It includes both self and other.

[05:19]

expression or celebration, but it also is paying attention to the suffering of the world, so the side of compassion. It's not exactly the same, but there are various kinds of balancing. We've talked about this. One is form and emptiness. Of course, there's no emptiness outside of form and all form is empty. And here we've been talking about the side of stillness and the side of illumination or awareness. And there's also wisdom and compassion. So maybe wisdom is on the side of, so that's a different dynamic than this. But the integration of it has some of the same qualities that there is this awareness, this bringing forth through our settledness of insight, of seeing into

[06:26]

what's important, seeing into the heart of the matter, seeing into, we could call it emptiness or wholeness or whatever, suchness, and then the expression of that, which is compassion. So in terms of the universal in particular and that polarity, that lines up a little more with wisdom and compassion. So seeing oneness, seeing the universal is like seeing emptiness. That's sort of the side of wisdom. And here it mentions the upright and inclined, and that is very much about, you know, brings forth the idea of wisdom and compassion. So the inclined, the apparent, in some sense, to take care of the illusory. suffering of the world. From the wisdom point of view, well, it's okay if this world goes away. There are many other Buddha worlds. But from the compassion side, we try and take care of the particular situations of suffering in the world, and in ourselves, and in our sangha, and in, you know, those around us.

[07:37]

So we emphasize posture because, in many ways, finding our center and finding our balance point is the key in a lot of these issues. How do we find our practice heart where we see the wisdom side and also are expressing it for the sake of others? And of course, that's in all of our practice structures. So to make available the space of practice, to have a Sunday program or whatever where people can just come and the practice is available. We have to have both sides though. So other general questions or comments? Yes. That's a wonderful question and there are several different ways to answer or respond to it. One is that you should go check with a teacher. Another is that you should sit with others because there's a kind of attunement that happens.

[08:44]

And it may not, if you're way off in your sitting, it may not help. But sitting together in Sangha, there's a kind of natural attunement that does happen, which I trust. One way to respond, I mean, I can respond from lots of different places to that question. It's a great question. Another way to respond is, well, okay, maybe you're a little bit off. That's okay. Can you keep coming back to looking at it and questioning it? And we're all a little off balance sometimes. Hopefully, we're not hurting ourselves or others. But if you're, you know, so sometimes people who are just sitting can get kind of complacent and lazy. Or even if they're doing it very well, they can get into kind of the blissful side of it and forget about responding to others or even caring to ask that question which you asked. So part of the, another way to respond is that you should keep asking that question.

[09:51]

It's really important to have that question. How is this, what is this appearing in front of me? Is this, am I really engaging the way? How is this helpful? And this is something that Hongzhe and Dogen and all the teachers of Just Sitting keep saying, please look into this, please investigate. But the point of the investigation is not to settle into, oh yeah, you're doing it right, that's very good. Good girl, that's fine. Or the other way around, you're doing it wrong. And so I'm tempted to cite Nanshuang's response to Zhaozhou, it's not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Partly, can you be present and aware and paying attention in the midst of question, in the midst of not being told, oh, this is great.

[10:58]

And if you keep doing this for x number of whatever amount of time, then you'll reach such and such a stage and so forth. This is actually reality. We don't know what's going on. So the practice of just sitting is actually meeting reality. And not no mind. But it's not just complacent, oh okay, well I don't need to know. It's actually questioning the texture of what's going on. So all of these practice instructions by Hong Xiu are ways of helping us reattune to being in the middle of that question where we don't settle on anything as, oh yeah, this is it or that's it or that's it. But we're willing to keep looking at it. So I don't know if any of those ways of responding are helpful or satisfactory. I could probably keep going, but maybe Shogun has a response. Oh, first of all, Tetsuka. Yeah, and that's why, for myself, when I'm giving Zazen instruction, I'll start from this.

[12:00]

So Soto Zen, orthodox Soto Zen, sort of starts from the top of the mountain, or from inner space or something. So I'll start with instruction in objectless meditation, but then I'll always say, and if you have trouble settling, you can do this. And I'll offer counting breaths, or koans, or mantras. And with individual students. I work on koans with individual students separately, and I offer mantras or particular ways of breathing. I think all of those meditation object practices are helpful, not because they're important in themselves, but exactly for the point you're mentioning, that to actually settle enough to just be present in this dynamic of serene illumination, we do need some stopping practice just to get us into the mood of just sitting, I think, for most people.

[13:04]

I do this intuitively with particular students in terms of what might, you know, and offer, sometimes I'll offer a couple different, two or three different possibilities of specific practices, counting breaths or, you know, particular. objects of concentration with which to settle. So particularly, this is a very good question, particularly for beginning students, it is important to find your own seat, to find your own settling. And for most of us, we need some, practically speaking, we need some tool for settling. And so we have lots of those. You can just say that silently to yourself until you, you know, things get quiet enough. And so on. So yeah, so I would not give the Guideposts for Silent Illumination out to, at, you know, the first Sasan instruction.

[14:12]

Yes. Yeah, and that's what Genjo Koan is about. So sometimes it's helpful to give the Kusako Koans, the traditional old stories, so I'll talk about those in Dharma Talks as a way of getting people into the into the pattern that Hongzhi talks about in Silent Illumination, into this balancing, into this posture. I always emphasize posture, just because in various ways we have to find the balance between kind of reaching forward and holding back.

[15:27]

But of course, we all come to practice because of some problem. are often some combination of many problems. And Genjo Koan practice is about how do we realize that? How do we bring our full energy to the problem of being in this body and mind trying to settle? not just in Zazen, but as you say, in the questions in our life. And the reason that those old stories are still alive and still studied and still engaged in from this settled place is because they still have something to say to us to our own problems now. We're not studying them as kind of historical artifacts. So that's a problem I have or a question I have about Koan curriculum systems. And I know you have sometimes used that. I actually have my own, developed my own 33 Koans as a kind of curriculum.

[16:34]

But I'm flexible about offering those to students based on where it kind of connects with their own practice. spontaneously or formal talks that were delivered from communities? Well, the practice instructions, which is volume six, were from some kind of talks. They were from Dharma words. So, I think I read at the beginning, the compiler of them says, kind of goes over that. He says, Maybe I should read the whole thing. Hongzhe made vast and empty the bright mirror and saw through it and reflected without neglect.

[17:35]

He manifested the mysterious pivot of subtle change, which is a wonderful phrase for the dynamic of what's going on here, then trusted his fortune and certainly found the core. Only one who had the true eye and deep flowing eloquence could have mastered this. My teacher lived below Tai Pai Peak, which is on Mount Tien Tong. Dragons and elephants tromped around. The hammer and chisel of the teaching shipped away the meaning of his words, spread widely, but still conveyed the essence. I'm sorry, the hammer and chisel of the teaching chipped away. The meaning of his words spread widely but still conveyed the essence. Sometimes scholars and lay people who trusted the way asked for his directions. Sometimes mendicant monks requested his instructions. They spread out paper and wrote down his responses. He spoke up and answered their questions, producing appropriate dharma talks. So that's what this material is from. Yeah. Well, this guy compiled them. We don't know anything else about him except his name was Puchong, which means universal something.

[18:43]

Universal respect. But he says, I have selected a few of these and arranged them in order. So he arranged the order. So going back to the question of the progression, there's a little bit, you can see where he starts and where he ends has some sense to it. And then he says, ah, the emptiness of the great blue sky, the flowing of the vast ocean, I have not yet attained these utmost depths, so please excuse my attempt to record his talks. And even more, please excuse my attempt to translate them, not even having heard the original or ever met Hong Xiu in the flesh. And anyway, I must await the ones who mysteriously accord with spiritual awakening to pound out the rhythm of his words and appreciate their tones. So this is what we're doing is, because you showed up or maybe you just live here and we're required to. But anyway, there's some way in which there's this mysterious accord in which we can appreciate the tones of what Hongzhe is saying.

[19:54]

So in answer to your question, Hogan-san, the practice instructions were from Dharma talks. The verses were not. The verses were written out as writing. They're literary Chinese poems. So Hongzhe did that. He wrote verses. But most of the Zen writings we have are from Dharma talks or some oral presentation. You get flavor from the Roku that Dogen is from. stood up and started talking. And they had a very spontaneous quality to them. And so I didn't know if these were more set pieces that he delivered. That's a little more. They do feel more literary. They do. But apparently they come from his own, he just talked this way. I don't know how much editing he did. But you can see, I mean, there's kind of themes that are repeated and so forth.

[20:58]

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to ask this at the time. The implication of these talks on baby Buddha. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. That same thing of bathing. Yes, absolutely. Of pouring water on the baby Buddha statue. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know. Yeah, it was at least back then. So I don't know. But I don't know when it first appears. It may go back to India. I just don't know. I do know that the story of, as I mentioned last night, holding up the flower and Mahakasabha smiling doesn't appear anywhere until around the year 1000. It doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it wasn't around before that. It's just not written down until 1000. Yes? I have no idea.

[22:18]

So I think there's some references to that. So maybe that was something Hongshu did and Dogen did too. So we have a little bit more time tonight. And as I said, I actually feel like we can really start getting into Hongxin now. So if you're up for it, we can continue this evening just reading and talking about it. But maybe I'll read something now, and we'll see what happens. The practice of true reality is simply to sit serenely in silent introspection. This is the practice of true reality. It's the second one on page 30 in the new version. It's the second one in the old version. When you have fathomed this, you cannot be turned around by external causes and conditions. So again, this goes back to Dongshan saying, you know, don't look outside or you'll be further estranged from self.

[23:27]

I don't think it means don't care about what's going on around you, but this, in terms of the practice of serene illumination, of just sitting, the practice of true reality, the practice of meeting suchness is simply to sit serenely in silent introspection. This empty, wide-open mind is subtly and correctly illuminating, spacious and content, without confusion from inner thoughts of grasping. Effectively overcome habitual behavior and realize the self that is not possessed by emotions." So he doesn't say crush the self and crush all emotions. He just says, overcome effectively your habitual behavior. Realize the self that's not possessed by your emotions. We can still see emotions arising, attraction and aversion, desire and grasping. We can see that arising, but we don't get caught by it. You must be broad-minded, whole, without relying on others.

[24:31]

So this is the side of each of us has personal responsibility for. all of Buddhism for the whole practice in your body and mind and around you. Such upright independent spirit can begin not to pursue degrading situations. Here you can rest and become clean, pure, and lucid. Bright and penetrating, you can immediately return accord and respond to deal with events. So it's not quietistic. The point of this is from this resting, whether it's a period of Zazen or Sashin or spending a number of years in the monastery and then going out. There are various different rhythms, but this essential rhythm of turning within and then coming out and responding is, each of us in our own way has that rhythm. You can immediately return a court and respond to deal with events. Everything is unhindered. And then he has a more, this kind of natural metaphor.

[25:36]

Clouds gracefully floating up to the peaks, the moonlight glitteringly flowing down mountain streams. The entire place is brightly illumined and spiritually transformed, totally unobstructed and clearly manifesting responsive interaction like box and lid or arrow points meeting. So this goes back to the Jewel Marrow Samadhi. Do you all know that story about arrow points meeting? This is in the Jewel Marrow Samadhi that Dongshan wrote. So, you know, which, you know, Hongzhe regularly kind of refers to things from Dongshan and Chateau. And this one is kind of interesting and it's about teachers and students. Dongshan says, with his archer skill, Yi hit the mark at 100 paces. So he was a great famous ancient Chinese archer. But when arrows meet head on, how could it be a matter of skill? This goes back to a story of the great archery teacher, the greatest archer in the world, or known world in China at his time.

[26:45]

And he had a very good student. And the student got to be so good that he realized that if he killed his teacher, then he would be the greatest archer in the world. So he picked up his bow and fired an arrow at his teacher some distance away. And of course, the teacher knew right away. And he picked up his bow, and he fired his arrow. And the arrows met head on in midair. And then they both realize, oh, we can both be the best archers in the world. And they lived happily ever after. So anyway, this is a story about teachers and students. But it's mentioned by Dongshan as this is not a matter of skill. So this meditation practice, there are techniques that we can do. You can get very skillful at counting your breath or at you know, responding energetically to these old teaching stories and the koans and so forth. But it's not, when we really meet suchness, when we really engage our experience in this body and mind, it's not a matter of calculation or deliberation or developing some skill.

[27:52]

It's something deeper than that. Anyway, so Hongzhi says, The entire place is brightly illumined and spiritually transformed, totally unobstructed and clearly manifesting responsive interaction like Bach's and later Arrowpoint's meetings. So the bell rings and we do the next thing. We meet the situation in front of us. Continuing, cultivate and nourish yourself to enact maturity and achieve stability. So the stability, the settleness is important. And both sides develop in our practice. And they have this organic rhythm. And it doesn't happen according to skill. It happens in this organic way that's deeper than our ideas about it. If you accord everywhere with thorough clarity and cut off sharp corners without dependence on doctrines or on these old Zen teachings, like the white bull or wildcat helping to arouse wonder, you can be called a complete person.

[28:53]

So we hear that this is how one on the way of non-mind acts. But before realizing non-mind, we still have great hardship. So there's a lot of work to do. This thing about the white bull or wildcat, that's also from the Jomar Samadhi, where it says, Because of the vulgar or because of the common, we have jeweled tables and ornate robes. So for the people who come on Sundays, we have these beautiful displays and beautiful Buddhist statues and a garden full of Jesus and these beautiful things. So there's an aesthetic quality to our practice because it appeals to people. For those capable of wonder, or for the, what's the translation now?

[29:54]

Because some are wide-eyed, which is a kind of gloss on that. Cats and white oxen, so somebody was asking about oxen. This goes back to Nanshuang, maybe I mentioned it last night. He said, Buddhas and ancestors don't know it is. Cats and cows know it is. So it's a reference to that. It's this simplicity, this direct mind. So, Speaking of the bell ringing, it's just about time to end our afternoon session. But is there one last comment or response or question or utterance before we take a break? So this is the immediacy of question and response coming up together.

[30:45]

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