Good morning. Can you hear me okay? Is it coming up? Hello? One, two, one, two. It's a little bit low. One, two, one, two, three. Hello? That's good. I didn't know that Sojin was going to be here this morning. I had a fear of it last night when he was here in the afternoon. I thought, well, he's probably here in the afternoon because he can't be here in the morning, so I don't have to worry. I've practiced over 30 years with Mel and I still feel intimidated and to have to give a talk because his model or Mel's talks are so pervasive and solid.

[01:32]

and I always feel like I just have to do what I do, but nevertheless I'm aware of his way. So I'd like to ask you, is there anybody or how many people here are not Okay, this is what's interesting about a Saturday talk is that there are people that have been around for 30 years and people that this is their first 30 minutes in the Zen Dome. So I'll end this talk mostly at people who are more familiar with it, but obviously many of you aren't. Fukase Zengi was written by Ehei Dogen, Dogen was the founder of Japanese Soto Zen. He lived from about 1200 to 1253 or so, 1254, and our practice really even though Mel was saying in his talk yesterday that for over 500 years

[02:51]

follow his teachings or focus on his teachings so much and then in the early 20th century or so they became more prevalent and now they're very dominant. So we're well familiar with them and Suzuki Roshi, if you read Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, is just full of When he was about 22, he was brilliant, a brilliant Zen student, extraordinary from a very young age. When he was about 22 or so, 21, he traveled to China seeking a true teacher, a teacher who he could really give himself to. He hadn't really found one in Japan although he had several really great teachers in Japan and I believe his primary teacher in Japan had died.

[04:03]

So he found his teacher Ru Jing in China eventually and had a experience of and began to teach, and so his first effort, his first written effort in teaching was the Fukan Zazen Gi, which is a introduction to zazen, introduction to meditation for zen practitioners. And I think he was about 27 when he wrote it. So this Fukon Suzuki the reason that I wanted to talk about it this morning and the reason that I like to study it is because it's one of if not the most elemental texts for us and in a sense very simple. The structure of it is very simple so in a way it's not so difficult to understand at least structurally but to really understand

[05:16]

what he's trying to convey is not so easy. And so I find that I get overwhelmed with the variety of literature that's available to us now in the Bay Area and in modern times. and it can go off. There's so many teachers that are accessible through their writings. We can read their lectures and so forth. And I get diffuse. There's always something more interesting. There's always somebody else to read, somebody else to listen to. So to come back to the first step, to come back to what's closest to us, which is introduction, the introduction to just sitting, and really digest it, really understand it as well as I can, is a good practice for me.

[06:25]

It's a practice of simplification, of just starting with the first step, and really feeling the first step, and then taking the next step. we can take many steps intellectually. That's not so difficult, but this is not just a matter of intellectual. What's interesting about the Fugans Zen Gi is that it's a, he did not, Dogen did not just make this up or it just created out of some inspiration that he had. This was a format that was already existing. The first teacher who really created something which could be called an introduction to Zen meditation

[07:26]

was Jurie back in the mid ... who lived in the mid-500s and his work was ... he made a wider body of work amongst which were a chapter which contained advice on how to practice meditation, but this was mostly designed for monks and not for laypeople. And then 800 years later, Zhengzi was another very strong teacher. He took, or was at least directly or indirectly influenced by Jury, took that kind of teaching and revised it into a way that was more accessible to lay people as well as monks. And Jurijs Tsongsa's work, also he sort of combined pure land teachings in his own practice with Zen practice.

[08:31]

His work was very popular and well known. And he put this out in around 1100, which is about 100 years before Dogen was born. So when Dogen comes 100 years later, and reads Sung Tzu's work, he's dissatisfied with it. He feels like it doesn't really express his understanding of Zen practice very well, and so he wants to revise it. So he's already working with a format that's pre-existing I want just to read you the Dogon's sort of preamble to the Fukanza Zengi in which he describes why he's writing it. The treasury of the I, of the true dharma, separately transmitted outside scripture, has never been heard of in our kingdom, which is Japan, much less as any principles of seated meditation, which is the meaning of the fukanza zengi, been transmitted to us.

[09:46]

When I returned to my country from the land of the Song, China, during the Kuruku era, 1225-1227, there were students of the Dharma who asked me to compose such a principles of seated meditation, and so I felt obliged to go ahead and compose one. In ancient days, the Chan master Po Chang built a long hall with extended dioceses, or diocese, for seated meditation and transmitted the style of Shaolin, or the style of the Bodhidharma. This style is not the same as the preceding vines and creepers and old nests, or nesters, of scholastic Buddhism. And students should realize this and not confuse them. In a Chan Yuan Ching Kuei, excuse my pronunciation, there is a Sot Chan Yi. Though it follows Po Chang's original intention, it adds several new clauses by Master Yi. For this reason, it is filled with many mistakes and misunderstandings. Its author knew nothing of the understanding beyond words.

[10:51]

Who could fail to realize this? Now I gather the true arcana or the true mysteries. I have myself seen and heard, offering them merely as a substitute for what is received in the mind's expression." So primarily what Dogen, my understanding, what Dogen was dissatisfied with in the prior manuals are that they take a dualistic approach to practice and to meditation and they tell us about how to develop concentration, how to be compassionate, how to help others, and in and by developing concentration practice and by helping others and so forth, we will gain enlightenment.

[11:52]

And Dogen's feeling was that this was a kind of a dualistic way of looking at practice, and in that sense, misleading. So if you compare, you know, this is not, I don't wanna do it in this talk, it's a different kind of a talk, but if you were to compare Sung Tzu's work with Dogen's work you can see how what he's done is take the gut of how to actually sit, you know, how to sit upright, how to focus your breath and your posture and so forth. He's kept that, but what he's added is how to understand that the actual practice of sitting itself is enlightened practice, that it's not a matter of you do this so that you'll get back. And that's the whole nature of the show us that or to present that to us.

[12:58]

And in fact Dogen when he was 27 or 28 wrote the Fukanza Zengi with that aim in mind and then revised it again 11 years later when he was in his 40s. He was in his probably 27 or 28, 30 when he wrote it. And then when he was in his early 40s, he rewrote it, revised it. And this is the version that we work with today. And the revised version, even Dogen has changed his language so that it is less dualistic and more practice enlightenment, practice realization integrated. just the title Fukan Zazengi is Zazengi is just the excuse me

[14:08]

Zazengi is the principles of seated meditation, or it could be the rules of seated meditation, or you could say the principles of seated absorption, since the word Zen comes from the word Chan in China, which comes from the word Dhyana in India, which originally meant absorption. And Fukon is, big or universal encouragement or universal promotion. So it's like a big, big or universal suggestion, encouragement, promotion of the principles of sitting. So I just want to I just want to take the first few sentences. This work is maybe a page or two long. I just want to take the first few sentences and just discuss them with you.

[15:18]

The transliteration I'm going to use is from Carl Biefeldt who wrote the book Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation which is a very exhaustive academic scholarly study of the fucons of Zen Gi and if you take it slow it's pretty interesting and don't get too caught in the technical aspects of it but are looking for the practice It's in the library. So it begins, fundamentally speaking, I'll just read you the first paragraph. Fundamentally speaking, the basis of the way is perfectly pervasive. How could it be contingent on practice and verification or practice and realization? The vehicle of the ancestors is naturally unrestricted Why should we expend sustained effort?

[16:33]

Surely the whole being is far beyond defilement. Who could believe in a method to polish it? Never is it apart from this very place. What is the use of a pilgrimage to practice it? And yet, if a hare's breadth of distinction exists, the gap is like that between heaven and earth. Once the slightest like or dislike arises, all is confused and the mind is lost. So this is very short, but it's packed. If you really look into what he's talking about, it's packed. And it's not just a matter of conceptually understanding this. Actually, no Zen study is just a matter of conceptual understanding. So the question is how can we, as we're studying this, how do we understand the concept but then bring the concept to life, in our own life.

[17:38]

So fundamentally speaking, the basis of the way is perfectly pervasive. What do you make out of that? How do you understand that? It's the kind of thing in Buddhism where you would just go right past it because it sounds so good, but how do you actually understand that? How do you actually feel that? The concept or the thought is that things are just as they are. Enlightenment is nothing but seeing things as they actually are. And although we make it into something grand in the way we think about it, actually it's just seeing things the way that they are.

[18:41]

And the fact is that we don't see things the way they are because of our various delusions and sort of upside down ways of looking at things. But because we're all looking at things from an upside down perspective, we all think that we're right side up. So, things as they are is right here. Things as they are are not, it's not like we have some great experience And then we see things as they are some other place than right here. How could that possibly be? So things as they are is right here, but because of our various hindrances we just aren't able to see it clearly and directly. So the notion that if we're enlightened that we're going to be some different state or someplace else is a delusion.

[19:51]

Sometimes as I've been thinking about this talk, when I've been walking to work in San Francisco, I'm sort of walking along and chattering mind and seeing all the different sites and so forth, I say I go over this first line, the way is basically perfect and all-pervasive. I keep on walking, the way is basically perfect and all-pervasive. know when you're thinking about all the sort of petty problems and petty concerns this phrase takes you in a different direction. So as a practice you can take this phrase and just hold this phrase. You don't need to analyze it but just hold this phrase. The way is basically So where is there a discrepancy?

[20:59]

Why is there any problem? And the why, why there's a problem is what our practice is. How could it be contingent on practice and realization? So this is This is Dogen's big point that he wants to make, and if you read Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, practice and realization and enlightenment are constantly in Suzuki Roshi's talks, and how to understand it, or the attitude that we can understand this with. I actually got ahead of myself.

[22:00]

Let me go back just one step. In the first part, talking about the practice is basically perfect and all-pervasive, or that the way is basically perfect and all-pervasive, this was Dogen's sort of original question as a young man, actually as a boy, even. He had read the Mahabharata, Parinirvana Sutra which says all sentient beings everywhere possess the Buddha nature. The Tathagata exists eternally and is without change. So reading that he thought well if everything is perfect just as it is and pervasive why is it necessary to practice? And so it's wonderful that as a young man, this was like a burning question for him. It wasn't like, how can I find the right partner? How can I get married? How can I have a house? Can I have the right career? The question that was on his mind was, if everything is Buddha nature and right just as it is, why should we be practicing?

[23:09]

Because he grew up in a very Buddhist household in a Buddhist country. Why should we be practicing this? So then we come to this division between practice and realization. And every one of us, we feel this problem. I can say almost without exception, I can't imagine anybody practicing meditation without thinking, what am I gonna get out of this? So here I am practicing, I'm sitting. Sometimes this really feels good, sometimes it just feels totally like a waste of time. But what am I gonna, why am I doing this? What am I gonna get out of this? So the practice is just sitting, the realization is something, what is the realization?

[24:15]

What will I get out of it? And who would ever want to devote themselves to just sitting without feeling that they were going to get something out of it? Why would you even bother to do it? And our usual sequential way of thinking is, if I practice such and such, then I will get a result And that result will be beneficial to me. So that, therefore, I'm going to practice this so that I will get that result. That's human nature to think like that. We all think like that at some point. Whatever you practice, you practice the piano, you play scales, and the scales may be utterly boring, but you play the scales because you hope that your playing will improve and you will be able to be a good piano player, a good pianist later by practicing the scales now.

[25:28]

And this is what, you know, and even Theravadan Buddhism and Hinayana Buddhism takes this approach as well. And it's not untrue, exactly. It is true that if you practice something, you will have some result. And if you read a good Theravadan teacher or study with a good Theravadan or Hinayana teacher, it's not that it's untrue. By refining ourselves, by working on our ignorance, by refining, by letting go of our greed and our attachments, we can get a result. And as Mahayanists, we tend to look down on that sort of gradual practice of trying to gain something by practicing.

[26:43]

But I would just caution us against looking down on it or saying that it's bad. I would only say that our practice is different than that. that practice, that approach has its pitfalls which are obvious, which is that it's materialistic and that you think that you're gaining idea and which reaffirms our ego and our self-attachment just becomes stronger. That's the limitation to that kind of practice. But just because it has a limitation doesn't mean that it couldn't be workable. And our practice also could have limitations. We might tend to just mush everything together and say, everything is practice, so I'm okay, don't worry about it, everything's all right. That could be a limitation to our kind of practice. One of the first references and stories that Dogen really related back to in terms of practice and realization was a dialogue between Hui Ning, the sixth ancestor, and Huai Zhang, his disciple.

[28:26]

when Huaizhong came to to study and see him Huining said who is it that thus comes or basically who are you or what are you Huaizhong said it can't be spoken of or it's it's not something that words could describe and Huining was not going to be satisfied with that and said, well, is it dependent upon practice and realization? And Huai Zhang said, it's not that there is no practice and realization. In other words, there is practice and realization. It's just that we shouldn't defile them or we shouldn't taint them. So you could divide, he's saying you can divide up, and Suzuki Roshi says the same thing, you can divide up practice into practice and realization.

[29:37]

You can see them as not exactly one, but the point is if you do that don't don't see it as your ... don't defile it would mean don't see it from a deluded point of view, which is that I am practicing, I am this entity, this unique sort of core entity, I am practicing and I am realizing. If you see it from that perspective, then it's a delusion. If you can see practice and realization and you want to separate them without seeing it as ultimately aggrandizing our sense of self, then that's fine. But it's pretty difficult, mostly as soon as you start thinking about practicing and realizing who is it who's practicing and realizing, well, it's me who's going to be a better me.

[30:41]

And Huaijiang is saying, that's a problem. So I've done about half the talk that I wanted to, but that's all I have time for. So if you'd like to say anything, please do. My understanding is, you know, Soto Zen, we talk about the founder being Tozan and his student Solon, I believe. And my understanding, one of the defining features of Soto Zen is the teaching that the practice is itself the activity of an enlightened being. But my take on what you said is that that was actually something Dogen came up with. Did I understand you correctly?

[31:45]

I'm not saying that he came up with it. I'm saying that's what he really emphasized. So was that in Tozan and Soan's teaching? You have to ask Sojin. I don't know. You want to say? San Francisco in your mind is a little busy and you think of that first line in ways all pervasive and clear.

[32:59]

How can you make it more than just say the power of positive thinking? How is it actually a practice that you have taken on? Have you seen any shifts in your practice as a result of this? You can see it immediately. You can see immediately because as soon as you say that to yourself, I don't know if I'd call it positive thinking. It is a kind of positive. Yeah, I'd say it is actually positive thinking, although I hate the idea of positive thinking. Well, it is a kind of positive thinking, but The problem with positive thinking is that you're trying to convince yourself of something. It can be that you're trying to convince yourself of something. And this kind of practice that I'm talking about is not sort of convincing oneself, but just studying it.

[34:07]

have that thought, which at this state is just thought, have that thought be present and see what happens, but not so much trying to turn your mind to be like that. That's the difference. You're not trying to turn your mind into something, but just entertain a thought. So there's a more of an open mind there. Sue? Yeah, thank you for your talk. I guess I have an opposite reaction to positive thinking, which is I don't measure up to that. That's not how I live. And it's rare to have realization of satisfaction. This is it. And I keep thinking that it should look different from the way it is. And it creates a lot of suffering. I don't know how you see this, but I look at children as a way of letting go of things, because they're practicing all the time, and there's no drive for a particular outcome.

[35:33]

It's just a tremendous joy, and little kids, because that's who I work with, It seemed like just this joy of expressing, I think, what Dogen was talking about. I wonder what you thought of that. Well, you know, I don't have children, so I don't really understand children, although I can remember what it was like for me to be a kid. And although I had a lot of joy and fun and excitement as a kid, I also had lots of sort of fear, concern, or suffering. In a sense, I think we contend to romanticize children because they're so spontaneous. We just love that. And because we tend to lose it.

[36:33]

We tend to lose the spontaneity and we regret it. We wish that we had that lively quality. But if you really watch children, there's a lot of suffering there. I'm really interested to watch children play sometimes and really watch what they're doing. Sometimes you say, oh, the kids are playing. But actually watch what they're doing when they're playing. And oftentimes they want to dominate, one wants to dominate the other one and there's all kinds of little games going on about who's in charge and who's stronger and who likes who and that's what I see. That's true and I find that I appreciate the spontaneity and this tremendous joy of watching, being around a child who's just enjoying learning without any particular outcome in mind.

[37:38]

Yes. That's a very light, and I agree with what I, that's true when you watch children be enraged or really upset or jealous or whatever we all It's always in process, isn't it? Yes. You can't argue with that. Tamar? You know, I've gone through a few periods in my life where for some reason I've gotten into computer games. You know, and so you play these computer games and you rack up your worthless points, and your points don't mean anything. So in some ways, Superficially, that's a little bit like the practice we're describing, where you just do it for the sake of doing it, and yet, it really isn't. So, what's the difference? What's the difference between ...? I mean, when you sit ... I know they're different.

[38:39]

When you sit and you play computer games, you have no gaining idea, really. Or anyway, you might gain 10,000 points, but you can't ... That doesn't matter. It's a thought. You can't do anything with the 10,000 points. But you have a thought. The thought is the gaining thing. You think, I gained 10,000 points. You know it doesn't matter. But that doesn't matter to you, because that's perfect, because that's the whole delusion of it. It doesn't matter, but we get caught up in it. And that's such a perfect example. And it's a computer game, you can set it aside and say, it's just a computer game, I know it doesn't really matter. But if you think about all the concerns in our life that we think really do matter, it may be ultimately like a computer game. I mean, they do matter, you have to take care of things. We invest it with ... because of those concerns we obscure what's in front of us.

[39:43]

It occurred to me while you were reading that first quote The way is all pervading and perfect. That's good enough. What need is there for a concentrated effort? I think one thing that's going on here is the use of the word way and I don't know what My first response to Wei is I think path, and I think practice, and I think method, and I think the Eightfold Path.

[41:00]

But when it comes to China, there's the Tao, which is all-pervading. inexpressible ground, you know, of being something. So the way is all-pervading and perfect. And there's a question, Govind's original question, you might say, is then, why do we need to practice? So I just think it helps me to say that there's two meanings of way going on, the perfected, all-pervasive way, or dharma, or dharmadhatu, or reality. Yeah, you can use way in a small function or a big function, and he means big.

[42:03]

Well, you can look at it, I mean, you can look at practice as the small function, but that's his whole point, is to take it out of the small function into the big function. is the big way, which is not an object, but you have to put it into writing and words and discussion, it becomes an object. Yeah, that's right. Suzuki Roshi says, this is not our way or this is our way, he's meaning it in a more specific profile of practice type way. But when Domen's talking about the way, it has a bigger, it encompasses, it just encompasses. I have one more question or comment. The way is basically perfect and all pervasive.

[43:15]

Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

[43:21]

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