This morning, I want to talk a bit about our practice, what we're doing, and how we do it, how we can do it. And then I want to have some discussion What I'm concerned about is how we can take advantage of the opportunity to practice and how to make that available to us. As you know, there's really no beginning or end to practice.

[01:20]

And in a very large sense, we don't know when we begin to practice and we don't know when we'll stop. So, in a very big sense, Our practice has always been going on. And there's never been anything else but our practice. But in a narrow sense, in a more defined sense, we begin to practice in a certain way. and there's some definite rules in form and when we enter into practice we take up form and through the form we begin to actualize our buddha nature

[02:35]

But even though there is that beginning, still there's no end. So the pace of our practice is very long. Because practice is so long, the pace of our practice is very slow and very short. If you want to accomplish something in a short period of time, then you run fast. But our practice is more like maybe like a 28 mile run or maybe a longer run in comparison to the 50 yard dash. If you want to do the 50 yard dash, then you put a lot of energy into But if you want to do the marathon or the long distance run, then you pace yourself.

[03:51]

You don't go so fast. And you know you're going to be doing it for a long time. So you don't want to burn yourself out or wear yourself out. And so you need some rhythm. You need to find good rhythm. And you learn to live within that space. How you live within that space-time of the long distance run. And and sustain yourself and actually be there is more like our practice. If you take a long hike you start out with a goal maybe of going from here to Sacramento and at first you had this goal in mind Sacramento and you have a lot of thoughts in your mind but when you get to by the time you get to Vallejo you're just there walking your life is just one step after another within that walk

[05:36]

And when we enter practice, we have a very fresh mind, fresh understanding, and everything is quite new to us. And very new and exciting and interesting. And we can easily go on that kind of energy. It should be that way. And that's the first stage of practice. First stage of practice is where everything is new and fresh, and zazen is new and fresh, and your legs hurt a lot, and your back maybe hurts, and you make a great effort. If you don't make the effort, then you can't sustain the practice. And we need that kind of effort when we enter practice. We need the effort of constant sustaining energy to initiate our practice because it's very difficult and then when we get past the first stage and we start to feel comfortable in practice start to feel comfortable in zazen

[07:05]

and we have some way of integrating the practice into our life then we've reached a second stage and it's easy at the second stage to wonder what we're doing because at the second stage your pace kind of slows down and you find that you're just in it. This is a very important stage and an important place to be. Because when we find ourselves just there, in the middle of the walk, just walking, we begin to wonder, well, where are we going? I'm just walking and it's not so interesting anymore. And we just find ourselves sitting Zazen day after day, time after time.

[08:20]

And we've already sat Zazen before, so we say, well, what's new? What's next? But at this point, we have to realize that it's a long walk You can sit down for a while, you know, you can... I remember Suzuki Roshi used to talk about when we'd go to Tassajara from San Francisco, we used to stop at a place called the Buzz Inn. It's changed its name since then. It was a truck stop and we used to have a cup of coffee and then we'd go on. And he said, when you stop at the Buzz Inn, it's fine to have a cup of coffee.

[09:22]

But if you sit around and wait, sit around at the Buzz Inn too long, then that becomes too interesting. Pretty soon you forget where you're going. So you have to have your cup of coffee and pay the waitress. and then go on to Tassajara. So in the second stage our interest can easily become less intense than other possibilities begin to enter our mind. And we think, well, maybe we don't have to practice so hard or so much. And now that the things that were bothering me are not so troublesome anymore, I can begin a whole lot of new things, take up a whole lot of new things.

[10:33]

And at that point, it's easy to drift off from practice. So the second stage of practice is the ability, having the ability to just continue without creating a lot of interest, some special interest, some exciting kind of new interest. And the third stage of practice is where suddenly your interest is rekindled where your mind opens up and you understand what you're doing in a more deep way. So the third stage is something like the first stage.

[11:36]

Now for In Zen practice Discipline Discipline practice has always been a characteristic of Zen and Discipline gives us the order and focus to keep our mind alert and keep our body doing the right action. But it's very difficult to have a disciplined practice in a lay life.

[12:46]

It's not so easy. So one of the things that is weak in a lay life is the discipline of practice that you have in a monk's life. And why it's weak is because lay people all have different lifestyles, different ways of life. So you can't expect everyone to have the same kind of discipline. So discipline is something that we have to take on ourself. I can't say that you have to be in the Zendo at five o'clock in the morning. I can't tell you that. I can't tell you what to do. You have to take on your own discipline. I can help you. And we can all help each other.

[13:51]

But we can't impose that. But the discipline is a very necessary factor in practice. Now How we take on the discipline is different in each case, in everybody's case. Within our particular practice, the residents take on a certain discipline that we share because we, the few people that live here, take on a certain discipline because We have that agreement amongst ourselves. If you want to live at Zen Center, we agree to the discipline and try to maintain it and encourage each other to maintain it.

[14:53]

And that is necessary. And it's an opportunity that not everyone has. So those few people who have the opportunity to do that agree to that discipline. So the residents can practice in a certain way that's not really open to all of the other lay people. But each one of us decides, makes a decision about what our discipline will be. And if we make that decision seriously and keep our discipline, then our practice can become very strong.

[16:07]

One person's practice may be different than another's, but the intention if the intention is very strong and if you maintain your self-discipline your awareness grows and your practice becomes very strong and you have a very good sense of practice So when a person says, how shall I practice? When someone comes to me, some new person comes and says, how shall I practice? I always say, you should decide what your discipline is.

[17:12]

Do you sit three times a week? Or do you sit once every day? Or do you sit every afternoon? What is your discipline? What can you do? How can you maintain a discipline which is compatible with the rest of your life? Each one of us has to take into consideration all of the factors of our life. If you have a family, it's not so easy. If you work a lot, it's not so easy. If you study a lot, it's not so easy. So you have to make some decisions. And those decisions have to be, that decision has to be compatible with and in harmony with the rest of your life. Now, it's possible to do that.

[18:17]

It's possible for everyone to do that. Almost everyone can sit zazen, can find some time to sit zazen, at least at some level. But what happens is that unless our zazen practice is very strong and very disciplined, the tide of life comes in and washes it away. And we say, well, I couldn't sit Zazen because Uncle Joe came over. There was this movie and I just had to see it. And so forth and so forth. So if your discipline is very strong, you say, well, I can't see Uncle Joe because I have to sit Zazen. Or I can't go to that movie because Zazen is my discipline. If you have that strong discipline, then you have a practice.

[19:19]

If you don't have that strong discipline, then you have an idea of practice. So, you should be careful what your discipline is. Because when you set up a discipline, you make a promise to yourself. And you shouldn't break your promises. Whatever our intention is and whatever we arrange for ourselves, that's what we should keep. So you should be very careful. Very careful. At the residence, sit twice a day.

[20:24]

They're supposed to sit twice a day and come to Saturday morning schedule and sit all the one-day sittings and all the sessions with some exceptions. They can make exceptions. But that's their discipline, basic discipline. And we try very hard to maintain that. Some people who aren't residents also have very close discipline. Their discipline is very close to that. And that is a core that maintains our practice. But the opportunity that our practice affords us for everyone is to be able to sit Zazen together.

[21:39]

And Saturday morning is a very good opportunity for us. It's not, you know, when you work all week You don't like to... You like to spend the weekend with some freedom. I realize that. But... I would like to encourage you also to take advantage of our Saturday morning schedule from beginning to end. I appreciate your coming to lecture. But sometime... I would like to see us take more advantage of the whole schedule. It really deepens our practice and deepens our feeling of a Sangha when we practice together in that space of time wholeheartedly.

[22:50]

The formal practice is our education. So, Saturday morning and once a month, a one-day sitting. Next month we have a five-day Sashim. And I would like to encourage you to attend the five-day Sashim. New people, people who haven't sat one day, can sit part of the Sashim. And if you can't possibly pull yourself away from work you can't sit part of the Sushin in blocks of time but Sushin is a very important part of our practice and it's difficult but it deepens our understanding

[24:03]

If we don't sit sashimi, we miss something in our practice. So the two sides, you know, the formal side, practice is what I'm talking about today sometimes I talk about the informal side the loose side formal practice is like the tight side tight practice where we pay attention to all the formality and leave everything behind just leave our whole life behind and live in the present without any ties or burdens

[25:38]

or expectations. That's the tight side. And the loose side is where we enter into the world of responsibilities and dreams and worries and so forth. So both sides are our practice. So today I'm talking about the tight side. how I would like us to practice the tight side and pay more attention to it, to really make some decisions about how we practice and stay with them. Now, one of the things that's difficult is to sustain certain kind of practice for over a long period of time over a period of time because our lives change and Because of the burden of our activities we get tired out so one thing I like to suggest to people is that

[26:59]

You know, you feel that you would like to practice more intensely, but you can't sustain it. So, my suggestion is to take a block of time, take a week, and say, during this one week, I'm going to practice every day. I'm going to sit zazen every day. I'm going to go to the zendo every day, in the morning, or the afternoon, or something, whatever it is. And you practice like that for one week. And that helps you to establish your practice. And then you go for a while, and then you know, well, here's another week where I can do that, or a month, or some time, some block of time. Then you have that practice time as a beginning and an end. If you just say to yourself, I'm going to get up every day and go to the Zindo, you know, and forever, that's not going to work.

[28:08]

Because you'll start out okay, but you don't know where the end is because the end will creep up on you. And then you feel defeated. I can't do this anymore. I don't want to see my friends because I'm a little embarrassed or something like that. And you start to fade out. And then you say, what happened to Joe? So if you know what the beginning and the end is, then at the end, even though you want to continue in the same way, you say, this is the end of that period and that's over. Now I'll start another period being what it is. So you can go from week to week like that. Decide each week what your practice is going to be for the next week. And at the end of that week, you can say, well, maybe it's been too much. I did it, but it's too much. So I'm going to regulate it this way, a little less. And then the next week, maybe a little more.

[29:11]

So if you keep track of yourself like that, keep track of your practice that way, it'd be a big help because you always know what you're doing and what you're capable of doing. And you'd be fulfilling your promises to yourself. Now, I do want to talk. I do want to have a discussion, but I've talked too long already. But I would like to know what your problems are, or your questions. I just want to comment about my own practice of you talking about this sitting in the zen-do being the tight side and the outside activity being the loose side. It occurred to me that I experienced something different.

[30:20]

Thank you. You can make your own interpretation. I mean it feels different. This feels looser. It's tight in that you can't scratch your nose when you want to. In talking about practice, it seems to me that What we need to pay attention to is what happens with our mind and not so much with our schedule, although the schedule can help. And it's important. And in that sense, there is no loose side and tight side because the mind is there all the time.

[31:27]

And what I do with my mind throughout the day, and what I do with my mind on the cushion, is the same thing. And needs to have the same awareness. I would be interested in hearing more, either formally or informally, among ourselves, what it is we do in our minds, and how we practice with what happens with our minds.

[32:36]

Is what you do with your mind different than what you do with your body? No, same thing. I mean, you can call it body-mind or whatever, but my point is that I don't see any difference between sitting on a cushion and not sitting on a cushion. That's why you should sit on a cushion? Well, that's why I just said that question. I was just going to say that some of the things you read about Looseness and tightness and fullness, which is that sometimes, despite the promises I make to myself, when I have a real bad period, when I go through a period that's real, just real difficult, and not in that difficulty, once I get my butt on the cushion,

[34:13]

It may not be that the difficulty is there, but that the difficulty is getting it there. And what I find is that there used to be a saying that was something like, it has to be its own punishment. And what I find is that when I don't sit down to it, it's its own punishment. If I have a bad period when it's hard for me to get to Zazen, it gets worse if I don't get to Zazen. And then it gets real discouraging. And what I find that I need to do is just say, OK, I'm going to say some arbitrary point. I say, this period is over now. And I'm now going to have a period when it's going to be easier. And that helps me sometimes too. re-enter my promise with renewed spirit.

[35:16]

But hopefully it works. Sometimes it doesn't, but hopefully when I do that it doesn't stay difficult. Sometimes just telling myself that it's going to stop being difficult works for me. Sometimes it doesn't. But anyway, that's what I try to do. You know in Buddhism there are thousands of books on Buddhist philosophy and doctrine and There are many forms of Buddhism And Lots to think about and do But the hardest thing at all to get to is to get your butt on the cushion.

[36:19]

It's very simple. Very simple. But it's the hardest thing to do. Yes? I was very interested in Nina's remarks. And I'm extremely curious about what other people do with their minds. And I needed great help field help about what to do with mine. And I just want to say that there is going to be a mindfulness group that's going to be meeting on Thursday nights, and that's going to sign out a sheet about that, and that would be a place to pursue that. What do you do with your money? Wrestle. But by far, it's better to sit in the morning at home rather than not sit at all. That's a good point. If it's difficult to get to the Zen Do, by all means you should sit at home.

[37:46]

That shouldn't stop you from maintaining your practice. Karakiri used to say that you can extend the Zen Do. The Zen Do is extended. That's absolutely true. Well, it depends, you know, reverberate and bounce back and forth when you're sitting. You know, just taking the whole question back, because you're talking very concrete, but you're talking about, you know, sitting on a cushion, and yet, it depends, I think, and I think the discipline is deciding also where you're going to sit. And sitting on your cushion, just figuratively, you have to decide where you're going to do that. So sometimes you get complex, because you get many practices there. And I think the problem is there is how do you combine all of those and decide which is the most important?

[38:48]

Where should you be? Yeah, that's something that you constantly have to deal with. Where should you be? And how do you make a priority? And it always gives us a problem. But that problem itself is our practice. Dealing with that problem itself is our practice. Problem of what to give priority to, because you really have to think about it. And you have to think about, well, what are the things that you're really committed to? And what are the things that you'd like to do? And you have to be pretty... That is what you have to do. Right. That's, of course. So it comes down to, what am I really committed to? And in a sense, we like to be committed when it makes us feel good. But we don't like to be committed when we don't feel so good. But commitment means that whether you feel good or don't feel good, you do it.

[39:55]

That's what commitment means. Commitment does not mean when it feels good, I'll do it. When it doesn't feel good, I won't. So you have to know and really think seriously about what it is you're committed to. We have to eat both sides, you know. And no matter what you accept as your commitments, as your commitment, or those things that are in charge of your commitments, you have to be able to accept both sides, whatever comes. You know, you, okay, you eat that. That's what strengthens your commitment and strengthens your practice. That's why we have the discipline. The discipline is the commitment. And you say, I hate to do it, but I'm going to do it. Or I love to do it, and I'll do it. Either way, it doesn't make any difference how you feel. So unless you have that,

[41:01]

You can't break through what you have to break through. Because when you come to a difficult place, if you don't have the determination, then you go some other way. If you don't have the strength through determination, when it comes to, you say, this is impossible. I can't get through this wall. So you go this way. So if you have that determination, it doesn't matter whether I feel good or bad or anything, the only way I can go is through the wall. That's the only way you get enlightened? Yes? I have a commitment, my commitment is to do it daily by myself, and I don't go through the wall because I always feel that if you tell me I could not come to Zendo on Saturday morning, for the whole thing, I want to come.

[42:04]

But because periodically I have to come, I won't come. That's what I say, I didn't say you had to come. You said it would be a very good idea. But that immediately makes it a very bad idea for me. Not that you said it now, but anybody. How do I go through that wall? by leaving your ego out. That's a practice of life. That's what I said. I'm not in a hurry. So, Carlos had his hand up before. You talked about three stages. Interest, and you don't know where you are, and the life as it comes again. And do you ever get back to the second stage after you get to the third stage?

[43:05]

Well, the three stages are not something that everybody always experiences every time. They are three stages. You don't have to go through all three of them. I never went through all three of them. I've always been in the first stage. But, you know, you can come. Of course, you know, sometimes you're in the first stage, sometimes you're in the second stage, sometimes you're in the third stage. You know, it just goes back and forth. More states than stages. Yeah, more states than stages. The other question is, what keeps you going nearly 20 years, I guess, since you've been sitting? Do you have some vision or some inspiration? Just so it's spontaneous and keeps your energy up. I mean, the energy is obvious, but where does it come from? The energy feeds the energy. In other words... It's self-regenerating.

[44:07]

It's self-regenerating. The harder you practice, the more energy you have. The harder you practice, the more energy and the more interest you have. The less hard you practice, the less energy, you know, is left. But when you sit up, you know, in Zazen, you put all of your energy into sitting up. You put all of your energy into sitting up. Then whatever you do is full of energy. Everything is Zazen. I don't care what you do. People say, well, I don't want to sit down there and do something else. I don't care. Whatever you do, find out what to do and do it. But you should find something to do and put your whole heart into it, whatever it is.

[45:13]

Otherwise, you're not living your life. Don't wait around. If you want to sit Zazen, just put your effort there. Really put your energy there. If you don't, do something else. But whatever you do, do it wholeheartedly. That thing will sustain you. It seems that if we don't do something wholeheartedly, which corresponds to that second state that you were talking about, it's perhaps because there's some obstacles. And no matter how much we want to do something wholeheartedly, if we don't see the obstacles, we can't do it.

[46:19]

So we need to be able to see the obstacles. But the obstacle will come up right away. Yes, and then what do you do with it? For instance, the question about... Oh, about perversity. How can she get over that? She can't just do away with her ego. She just can't. There's something else she has to be able to do. Something else she has to be able to do in order to continue practicing. What should she do? Well, I suppose one thing she could try is just to look at it.

[47:25]

I'm not trying to change anything. See? What do you think she should do? Pray for willingness. What? Pray for willingness. Pray for willingness. That's good. What do you think she should do? Really be perverse. Time for that. I think she should sit with her perversity Bring her perversity to the kitchen I would say that she would have to look at perversity for how it interferes possibly with her life and say that it's a very serious thing and take the perversity very seriously and will to get beyond it and take whatever steps she can, when she can, to get over it.

[48:38]

You too? I think there's no point, though, that it's not perversity. I think it's an attempt to define So I think that's a very good point. I was just going to say, I just love that walk. And understand that that wall isn't very important in life. And she lived with that wall and it helped her get by. And now it's a wall, and she needs to go through it, but first love it. That's a pretty good point there. Why love perversity then?

[49:39]

I mean, if it's just an obstacle in your way, if it's been something that's held you down, why love it? I mean, if it hasn't been a source of strength, it's only been a source of weakness. I see no reason to continue that relationship if you have a choice to get away from it. It's also a source of strength. Actually, you know, we have some admiration for our stubbornness. Stubbornness is okay. Most good Zen students are very stubborn. So it's not, you know, so bad. But when the stubbornness is turned around, it becomes strength.

[50:39]

In terms of Zazen, nobody can make me stop sitting. Nobody can make me start sitting. That's why I think it has a good point as well. I've got to get around that somehow. Because I want to come on Saturday morning. Don't do it. We have to put an end to this sometimes. Yes? For many years, I've had a picture in my mind that speaks. The human condition is represented by a huge wall that's made up of millions of little boxes and each one of us, through our lifetimes, each one has been squeezed into one of these boxes. And the problem is not to find a way to get through the wall, but that the wall is open-ended at both ends and that all we have to do is take a few steps back

[51:46]

and just walk around the end of the walls. And this, for some reason, this discussion about resistance and authority brought that to mind. Maybe the wall's only this wide, huh? It could be, yeah. What if it's... You know, through or around or We may want to be up against a thick wall, but you may be able to put your finger through it, like tissue paper, if you knew how. You can do whatever you want.

[52:53]

Everybody can practice the way they want to. It's fine. What I am talking about to you is a suggestion about how to deepen your practice. Which you can accept or not accept. It's been going on like this for the past 20 years. But I offer these suggestions to you to help you practice. These suggestions that I have are not suggestions that I made up, but come from thousands of years of people's experience in how to practice. So I don't throw them out lightly or take them lightly. I practice them the best I can myself and suggest to you that you can sing.

[53:59]

So you can think about it any way you like. And I appreciate all of your acceptance and resistance And I want to help all of us to keep our practice going in the best way we can, given the circumstances that we have. Thank you.

[54:37]

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