I noticed that I didn't look carefully enough at the schedule when it was given to me for review. And we still have actually today a prologue day schedule. So we would... Like tomorrow, we would have normally started, or should have started at 3 o'clock, not 2.30. But... What? I made a mistake. Oh, okay. And you made a mistake?

[01:01]

Yeah. No. Yeah. And if we started at 3, there'd be less stomach growlings right now. And I consider just coming down at 3.30. But then you would have thought, oh my God, this is the first hour of three months. So I thought, I better come down. Now again, I'd like to say, who wasn't here for the winter branches last year? Three people, four people, okay. Five people. I wasn't here. You weren't here? No, I wasn't here.

[02:02]

Six people. Okay, so those of you who were here, could you give us a presentation of the Abhidharma, please? Aren't you glad you weren't here? Yes. Or at least to tell us at least a few things you remember that stuck in your mind or felt important or were interesting for you. Hey, hi. That's David's seat. Die bei euch hängen geblieben sind oder die euch interessant erschienen oder wichtig? Because the whole point of the winter branches is that you guys do all the work and I just listen. Denn die Idee der Winterzweige besteht eigentlich darin, dass ihr die ganze Arbeit macht und ich einfach zu. We're not quite there yet, but I'm hopeful we get there. Wir sind da noch nicht ganz angekommen, aber ich hoffe, dass wir das schaffen.

[03:04]

Okay. So who's first? Also wer fängt an? As you know, the job of the first is to let someone else be second. My main impression of the Abhidharma is that there are many lists. And that they all... And the picture I like most is to describe these lists as recipes or ingredients. And when I get an idea of how to work with these ingredients that then they begin to enliven in practice and in my life.

[04:20]

They become more alive in two thousand. What list was new to you and useful? Because it's new. I haven't really studied it yet. I saw the transcript of the teshos you gave last, about the 12 somethings. Well, good. Interdependent.

[05:20]

Links, yeah. Links, yes. And so that was new and helpful. Okay. Helpful just to know it exists even though you haven't practiced it yet. Yes. There's something out there. Now someone has a chance to be second. Yes. For me there were quite a few new lists and up to now I didn't know how to practice with them. I understood them more as a philosophical order or, yeah. System, yeah?

[06:26]

System, yeah. And the Vijnanas left the major impression for me because they were also new. And that was the easiest for me to gather experience through practicing. Okay. Yeah. I heard most of those lists already before we started. You started the Abhidharma teaching. But what was new for me in this last year, and I participated in all of the weeks and seminars, that there is for sure a philosophical access to see those lists and

[07:27]

think and talk about it and everyone has somehow to talk about it and that's an access that at the beginning probably is only possible on a philosophical level, because when you hear the source list the first time, then you have to have an idea what it's all about. But it's also interesting in what difference it makes when you really start to practice with the source list. when you start and sort, and this was maybe the most important point for me to experience, to sort the points out or to figure points. My access is not just on philosophical level but on an experienceable level and start from there and leave also a sort of the all the other points aside and say well here this is what I can experience and from here you have to start and see what comes from here and there are only three points out of eight then that's already

[08:35]

That's maybe enough for the beginning and then see what comes next. And this is what I experienced last year. But it was basically a very helpful exercise, although we all had difficulties with it, to be forced into talking about those things. Forced. Yeah, somehow, yeah. You talk about those things, yeah. Yeah, I feel this is what happened last. I mean, not as a gardener, but somehow say something. How is it saying in the Koran, if you have something to say, I stay, or something like this. Yeah, there's a good thing. When you say forced, it reminds me of a... a black female comedian told her husband that she had a car accident and I don't know why I'm telling you this and he said, well, what happened?

[09:47]

She says, Jesus made me do it. I don't know why I'm telling you this, but someone asked her He said, how could Jesus... Wait, wait, wait. I think I understood something not right, because it doesn't make sense the way I say it. It doesn't make sense. He said, how did you have a car accident? She said, Jesus made me do it. Oh, okay. And he said, well, how could Jesus make you do it? Well, he was in the back seat. Well, so what? And he had a gun. Yes, I imagine suddenly. Atmar, talk about it. The Buddha made me do it. George, talk. Yes, what was new in this last year of the academic year, I have certainly heard a lot of these lists and also read something about them.

[11:11]

And this clear difference, when you look at such a list, and there are now 8 and 12 and 4 and 5, different lists, then there is certainly a theoretical understanding. That is, you read about it, you listen to Roshi and then you have a philosophical approach and can say, yes, these are these four points. But what makes a big difference is when you ask yourself, what can I really learn from these four or eight or twelve points? And that almost requires a little bit that you say, okay, here I have one of them. two out of eight points and everything else I leave aside for the time being, I almost push it aside a bit and say from there I start. And if I only experience two and everyone else says there are actually 15 of this kind, then I start with the two. And that was also an experience that was important for me to say, okay, first of all, I only know two in my own experience.

[12:21]

Well, you talked about it very well just now. Okay, yeah. For me, the excerpt from Hande Witt was a small key to bring together some things, at least on a conceptual level, such as how the currents of information come in and are processed. For me the excerpt by Hande Witt was a kind of key of how streams of information are coming together and are then being processed. and consciousness, the connection to these lists, which for me have been brought here often enough, but have always been a bit bloodless from my own experience.

[13:42]

particularly the transitions from the Vijñanas to kleshas and then to consciousness and the access to these different lists that I've heard before but that used to lack blood for me. And in connection with the Quran 20, which I think was also distributed there, I was able to connect my own experience in practice with it, so that it is now much easier for me to record what I hear. And in connection or together with koan number 20, which we also studied, I have a much easier time now to connect experiences with my practice.

[14:51]

Connect your experiences with your practice. To use this information, this conceptual information in practice in order to look at it. Okay. And with looking at it and abiding there, these things are developing further. Okay. Thanks. Yes. I'm actually still wondering about the understanding of some lists. I'm still struggling with understanding some of the lists.

[15:55]

Because, except for the scandals, I wasn't used to working in this way. And for me there was the temptation to take these models as scientific descriptions instead of taking them as tools for practice. And then there was the problem for me. This has something to do with my legal existence. I was always looking for crystal clear definitions and that wasn't always that easy. And then for me there was the problem, and it may be connected to me being a judge, that I was always looking for crystal clear definitions.

[17:05]

And... And I think I really entered the practice of it by starting with the phrase justice. Last year or just this last week? Last week. Okay. Okay, yeah. I've heard about these lists before and most of them I knew. And I started the winter branches with the third week and I was surprised by seeing how we are being asked to talk with each other about practice.

[18:17]

And that for me is a very practical access because I am being asked to also locate my practice. And there were a few very interesting approaches, like, for example, seeing the Four Noble Truths as being simultaneous. And, yeah, that's it, actually. And not sequential, but gradually. Because I was used to being instructed in practice, for example, also with the five skandhas. In a guided way, how to meditate upon the five heaps. And it was very new for me to also be able to look at the skandhas individually and not only always as, and not as gradual.

[19:45]

Building blocks, right? Yeah. Okay. And the four marks were entirely new to me and I could take those very well into the skanda of perception. And then I also found out something I never practiced with was the Eightfold Path. and to simply look at the eight paths to just take the word intention or view or search and more.

[21:00]

That a lot of the teachings that I have heard before, actually only because of the simple saying of one word, are also based on technical knowledge. that a lot of the teachings I've heard before could awaken just by recalling or just by using this one word. Yes, okay. Thank you. Yes? For me, with the attempt For me, by trying to practice with all the lists, I noticed a huge difference between practicing on the cushion and how to use these lists in everyday life. The material in everyday life was much richer and more exciting for me to practice.

[22:13]

The material for practicing in everyday life was much more rich. And while sitting Today I also notice that there are always points where it stops or where I have the feeling that I am coming into the imagination when I look at these points, except when I hear or feel something or something happens in the room. And in sitting I keep noticing that I come to points where something is just blocking and where I'm just pausing or stopping. Except when I hear something or something is happening in the room. And this is also a question I have.

[23:14]

This difference, this difference between whether phenomena really appear and things happen, or whether I am just sitting still and what appears inside me I still have a question around the difference between whether you just sit still and things arise within you like thoughts or feelings. or whether things are just arising. I don't quite understand the difference, actually. Can you say that again? If something happens at the moment, then I can practice it with the five dharmas, or with the four marks, or with the vijnanas, if something really arises.

[24:15]

And when I sit and it's just quiet, then I'm always a bit unsure, because it goes into the ideas and also into the thoughts. So when something arises, actually arises, I can practice with the four marks and with the vijnanas and so on. But when I sit and it's just still, then I have a question around how to practice with it because then it also goes into thinking and associations. Okay. When you said all the lists... I love the lists we have. You meant several? The lists we discussed, in other words. The lists we discussed, yeah. I try them out. Oh, good. I made a... You get an A. Yes, I am the computer.

[25:23]

You're my place. Yeah. Oh, good. Now you have a Blackberry and you look at the list, you know. Perfect. I want to add something to this question of being asked, not to say being forced, but being asked to talk about these things. You mentioned, I guess right away in the first week, I guess it is this Tibetan practice where these monks meet for... Debating. Debating, and just back and forth, and every day this is just part of the practice. And I thought, oh, Jesus, I just don't want to do this. Oh, Jesus? Oh, I want to do this. Oh, actually, I don't want to do this. But my experience was because we continued these discussions in the small seminar groups during the last year, just in Johanneshof, people saying at Johanneshof, and I also know that in Berlin they're doing this, and I've been two or three times in Berlin.

[26:32]

And being in, participating in such a discussion and debating That always changed in my sitting. It's one change that I can go back on my cushion and sit and I don't have to talk. That's a relief somehow. But it's also this seeing what is still there out of the discussion. Not thinking about it, but being sensitive for what is still in my mind from things people We talk about it in the afternoon or during the week. And that's a big change in the practice. Slowly, slowly, this is a change in my practice. Yeah, good. Did you say all that in Deutsch yet? No, not now. To get back to these discussions and to come up with a debate about it, at the beginning Roshi gave an example that in Tibetan monasteries it is a common practice that people meet there regularly and just talk about things for hours.

[27:43]

And then I thought, oh God, I don't feel like doing that, because I don't like it that way. But from these seminars, which we also hold here in the small Johanneshof, and I have also been to Berlin two or three times, this has changed my practice in such a way that I can of course also enjoy sitting on my pillow and not have to talk and not have to think. But nevertheless, something always appears from what was said, And that is suddenly present. And that is not only present because I think about it or have to talk about it, but it is like a kind of, I sit down and wait, what is suddenly there from it? And from my experience I have a point where I can really connect from what I have learned from all these discussions and lists and so on, where I really say, okay, now I will start my practice or I will continue from there. I noticed last week, like Peter said, working with a sentence like just this.

[29:03]

Working with this particular sentence was not new to me. I had done that in the past. But I notice I have some more subtle way to work with it now than having had more information about the Abhidharma. And even though I can't reproduce any of the lists, I can just have them on a piece of paper. are in just now, not just this.

[30:21]

So maybe more when I work with a word like this or just, I get also a more physical feeling of This as rising and this as voice and sound and color. My mother's voice and my great-grandfather's voice in that field. Okay. Well, I think we should take a break. And I'd like those of you who were in the winter branches and haven't spoken yet to maybe speak after the break.

[31:49]

But I also would like a kind of general question to ask, which is, what does the conception of the list itself mean to you? These lists exist. But I would also like to ask a more general question, and that is, what does the... Okay.

[32:30]

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