This morning I want to talk about case number 96 in the Blue Cliff Record. It's called Chokkei and Hofuku discuss the Buddha's words. Chokkei and Hofuku were two monks who were students of Sempo. Shui Feng. And they used to discuss the Dharma. They were famous for it. These two Dharma friends would always discuss the Dharma together. So they were well known for their dialogue. And Ngo introduces the subject and he says, don't remain where Buddha is.

[01:10]

If you do, horns will grow on your head. But you should quickly run past the place where there is no Buddha. If not, weeds will grow like a jungle. Even if you are entirely naked and absolutely bare, and the unhindered interpenetration of mind and circumstances is attained, you still cannot avoid resembling the fool who watched the tree stump to catch a hare. Now tell me, what are you to do in order to be free from these faults? Ah, see the following. The main subject. Chokhe one day said to Ophukwu, Chokhe one day said, even if you say that the Arhats still have three poisons, you should not say that the Tathagata has two languages.

[02:19]

I do not say that the Tathagata has no language, but that he does not have two languages. Hofuku said, what is the tatagata's language? Chokei said, how can a deaf person hear it? Hofuku said, I know you're speaking from the second principle. And Chokei said, what is the tatagata's language? Hofuku said, have a cup of tea. I mentioned this yesterday, but I didn't talk so much about it. And then Setso has a verse. Who speaks from the first and who from the second principle? Which one speaks from the first? Which one from the second?

[03:22]

Dragons do not lie in puddles. Where dragons lurk, waves arise when no wind blows. Oh, you Ryōzen monk, you've bruised your head on the Dragon Gate. Now, this all sounds like very obscure language, and I'm sure you're entirely confused. So, I will explain it. Do not remain where Buddha is. If you do, horns will grow on your head. This is the Ngo's introduction, introducing the subject. If you cling to Buddha, if you cling to anything to do with our idea of Buddha, then horns will grow in your head. This refers to a person who is always referring to Buddha, always creating a graven image of Buddha.

[04:25]

We do have graven images of Buddha, but we don't cling to them. We talk about Buddha, we talk about Buddhism, and we read texts and so forth, but we don't cling to them. This is the big mistake. He didn't say, if you use Buddha, He says, if you remain where Buddha is. This is the kind of way of speaking. So, do not remain where Buddha is. If you do, horns will grow on your head. Run, but you should run quickly past the place where there is no Buddha. In other words, where there's no Buddha Dharma to be found, pass that place by. If not, weeds will grow like a jungle.

[05:31]

Even if you are entirely naked and absolutely bare, and the unhindered inner penetration of mind and circumstances is attained, you still cannot avoid resembling the fool who watched the tree stump to catch a hair. In other words, even if you are completely guileless, completely naked, stripped of all opinions, standing there completely innocent, still, you cannot avoid resembling the fool who watched the tree stump to catch a hare. There's this story about a hunter who was walking in the woods one day and he saw a rabbit running really fast and the rabbit bounded along and hit a tree stump and it killed him. And the hunter thought, boy, this is pretty easy hunting.

[06:35]

He picked up the rabbit and put it in his bag and he thought, maybe if I wait here, I'll catch another one. Suzuki Roshi used to talk about the man who was waiting for this lady that he was infatuated with. You know, he would see her walking down the street at a certain corner. He would catch a glimpse of her at a certain corner one day. And so every day he would come back to the same corner to see if he could catch a glimpse of her, but she took a different route home every day. So he says, even if you are entirely naked and absolutely bare, and the unhindered inner penetration of mind and circumstances is attained, you still cannot avoid resembling the fool who watched the tree stump to catch a hair.

[07:48]

So, no matter what, No matter how deeply immersed in Buddhism you are, or no matter how innocent or how much you have attained, you still can't avoid hitting the tree stump, or being like the fool, waiting for the rabbit to hit the tree stump. Now tell me, what are you to do in order to be free from these faults? How can you get out of it? How can you find real freedom? Even though you've got all the right answers, even though you have all the right stuff, even though everything is completely correct, you still haven't got it. You're still like a person waiting for something to happen, which ain't gonna happen. I want to explain one more little thing.

[08:56]

He says, even if... He mentions the unhindered inner penetration of mind and circumstances. There's, in Tendai philosophy, there's the relative world and the absolute world. And then there's the inner penetration of the relative world realm, in the absolute realm. And then there's, these are the first three stages. Then the fourth is the inner penetration of the relative with the relative. In other words, how everything goes together as, how all, everything in the relative world goes together as Buddhadharma. or is expressed as Buddhadharma.

[09:59]

The first one is just the phenomenal world. The second is the absolute realm, where there are no distinctions. And the third is where the absolute realm and the realm of distinctions intermingle. are one. And the fourth is the realm where there's just completely free play in the world of phenomena, in the phenomenal realm. This is called mastery, mastery in the phenomenal realm. where everything, every action is right action.

[11:10]

So then, we come to the main subject, and here's the story. Choke, one day, said to Hofuku, his friend, he said, even if you say that the Arhats still have three poisons, you should not say that the Tathagata has two languages. This is kind of a funny language, even if you say that the Arhats have three poisons. Another way of saying it is, it would be better to say it might be better to say, or it would be better to say, that the Arhats still have three poisons, even though they're Arhats, than to say that the Tathagata, or the Buddha, has two languages. In other words, don't say that the Tathagata has two languages.

[12:15]

It would be better, even if you say that the Arhats have the three poisons, the Arhats, of course, are the enlightened disciples of Buddha. And they're supposed to have gotten rid of the three poisons, greed, hate, and delusion. So even if you say that the Arhats who have gotten rid of greed, hate, and delusion have not gotten rid of greed, hate, and delusion, it would be better to say that they haven't gotten rid of greed, hate, and delusion And they say that the Tathagata has two languages. Two languages means... In Buddha Dharma, we talk about the first principle and the second principle.

[13:21]

The first principle is directly understanding. First principle of Buddhadharma is intuition or direct knowing, directly knowing. The second principle is understanding or learning something. So we learn things in two ways. Sometimes we learn things through the mind or through the intellect. Learning through the intellect is secondary understanding or the second principle. No matter how much we learn, from a book or from a lecture or from a study. It's the second principle.

[14:23]

First principle is when Umon got his leg broken and screamed in pain and he suddenly had tremendous realization. So first principle is directly knowing. You don't have to break your leg in order to be in contact with the first principle. Zazen is the first principle. We just sit and keep our mouth shut. Zazen, no talking. Actually, during work period we shouldn't be talking either. Because we just lose it. But we do. It's okay to lose it, but we should know, oh, now I'm losing it. That's the first principle. But if you defend yourself and say, so what?

[15:27]

You've really lost it. So, First principle, what we're talking about here, this koan revolves around the first principle and the second principle. The Buddha does not have two languages. He said, even if the Arhats still have greed, hate and delusion, don't say that the Buddha has two languages, the first principle and the second principle. He only has one language. And then he said, I don't say that the Tathagata, that the Tathagata, there are a lot of T's and H's there, I do not say that the Tathagata has no language, but that he does not have two languages. And then Hofuku, his friend, said in reply, what is the Tathagata's language?

[16:36]

And Choke said, how can a deaf person hear it? In other words, even if I told you, you wouldn't understand. And Ho-Fu said, I know that you are speaking from the second principle. And then Cho-Kei said, well, smarty, he said, well, what is the topic of language? And Ho-Fu said, have a cup of tea. What is the Tathagata's language? You know, we talk a lot about Buddhism. We talk a lot about Zen.

[17:39]

We sit zazen, thinking that we're practicing something special. And then, we go out of the zendo And we relate to each other like barbarians. We talk to each other as if... without thinking, really. without discerning, without realizing what we're doing. We just talk. We just... We offend each other with language and...

[18:47]

Dogen Zenji says in the Bodhisattva's four methods of guidance, the first, the second method of guidance is called kind speech. We guide, how we guide is with kind speech. How Bodhisattva guides beings. First of all, we have to guide ourselves. And when we know how to move ourselves, then that's called guiding sentient beings. It doesn't mean that you necessarily look for people to guide, but you guide yourself. You know how to relate to yourself, and you know how to relate to others. The Tathagata's language is not

[19:54]

the language of somebody 2,500 years ago. The Tathagata's language is the way you speak. The Tathagata's language is your language and your speech and my speech. The Tathagata's language is not something written down in books. called Sutra. The Sutra is our everyday language, moment by moment. I once, there was a Korean teacher who used to come around, his name was Dr. So. And one day he wrote me a scroll that said, Zen Sutra, or a white cloud in the blue sky, is the Zen Sutra.

[21:04]

So, all day long, we're writing the Zen Sutra through our actions and through our language. If we wait for Buddha to come along, if we sit like dummies in the Zen-do and wait for something to happen, that will never happen. It's like waiting for the rabbit to hit the post. If I sit down then and do all the right things that I'm supposed to do, that look like Zen, then maybe I'll get enlightened. But when we go out into the unstructured world, where we have ordinary, everyday interaction, we say, where is the practice?

[22:15]

Well, I could come to Zazen, but then to have all this time on my hands, not Zen time. Once we become a Zen student, then our whole life is continuous practice. 24 hours, 25 hours a day of continuous practice. Sometimes you see it and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you recognize it and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you forget it and sometimes it flies up in your face. But awareness is your job.

[23:39]

I have to take care of myself, and you have to take care of yourself. But when you come together with somebody, when you have interactions, you have to speak dharma language. When we speak to each other, when we interact with each other, we have to have dharma interaction and dharma language. And dharma language looks just like ordinary language. You can't really tell them apart. And dharma activity looks just like ordinary activity. You really can't tell them apart. The Tathagata has no two languages. But when we leave the zendo, we just resume our ordinary reactive kinds of actions without making some effort to speak the Tathagata's language.

[25:14]

And I do it too. Sometimes I'll think, why don't such and such, why doesn't so-and-so get it? And then I'll act to that person like they're a fool. And then I have to think, well, maybe I've been acting to that person as if they were a fool. And so they think they're a fool. But if I don't act toward them as if I think they're foolish, then maybe they won't feel foolish. So sometimes I have to change my attitude toward somebody. But... We're constantly faced... with the mirror of our own mind.

[26:32]

Now, if you were confronting Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha all the time, how would you respond to him? You'd probably be very respectful. Oh, Buddha. But you go and see Jogwaro and say, Look. You insulted me. In the realm of Buddhadharma, for a Zen student, everyone is your teacher. Everyone without exception is your teacher. Everyone is Buddha teaching something, teaching you something.

[27:39]

Joshu, who was one of the greatest Zen masters, used to say, when he went on his travels, and he was 80 years old, and he said, if I meet a young kid, 7 or 8 years old, who can teach me something, I'll bow down to that person. And if I meet a hundred-year-old person who doesn't understand, then maybe I can teach him something. Or I'll be willing to teach him something. When someone insults us or makes us feel insecure in some way, we should see that person as a teacher, even though the feeling or emotion that comes up is to hate the person.

[28:47]

You say, this is anger. This is hate. This is poison. What am I being taught here? How can I use this teaching as teaching? Buddha is teaching me something. What is it anger and retaliation are very powerful very powerful emotions and it's easier to use them than it is to let go of them we would usually

[30:02]

rather fight out the fine points of being right and wrong than to settle on ourself. Or to find our equilibrium. It's real easy to go off fuming and blaming. Because when you find yourself blaming, It takes the guilt away from yourself and projects it onto someone else. The Sixth Patriarch said, to blame is to lose the essence of mind. He said, even if you're wrong, you shouldn't blame. Even if you find yourself Even if you're convinced that you're right and someone else is wrong, you shouldn't blame.

[31:09]

You shouldn't find fault. This is logically not easy to understand, but it's radical teaching. It's not your usual teaching. This kind of radical teaching is to turn you around It's not a matter of right and wrong. The main thing is not whether you're right or wrong. The main thing is, where are you? The main thing is, what basis are you coming from? You can argue right and wrong all day long, and so what? Supposing you're right all the time. In this nice little exchange between these two monks, nobody's right or wrong.

[32:32]

Let's have a cup of tea. have a cup of tea. This is the first principle. And what he could have done was said, we've just gone and got the tea. He didn't have to say anything. He could have just gone and made his friend a cup of tea and just offered it to him. That's our first principle. But he said, have a cup of tea. That's speaking. And it looks like second principle, but is it first or second? It doesn't make any difference. Sometimes second principle is first principle. All the words that Buddha spoke were not second principle, even though Buddha explained a lot of things. And he accommodated himself to everybody.

[33:37]

He spoke about certain things that these people could understand. And to people who couldn't understand, he spoke a different way. But no matter what he said, he himself said, I haven't said anything. Even though there have been millions of words, I really haven't said anything. All the words are, his words are first principle. They're all meaningful words. Not just words to describe something. Not just painting a picture. As soon as we start arguing and trying to make our way, justify ourself, we fall into the second principle.

[34:50]

The first principle is just the truth. So as soon as you find yourself arguing, or blaming, or holding on to offense, it should be a warning sign about yourself, not about somebody else. None of us does anything right. Sometimes we do something right. Sometimes we do something wrong. Sometimes we don't know what we're doing. And most of the time, even though we think we know what we're doing, a lot of the time we don't know what we're doing. We may know what we're doing over here, but we don't know what we're... We know what we're doing with our right hand, but we don't know what we're doing with our left hand.

[36:01]

So, sometimes we pick up the hammer to drive the nail. So we go... But when we go this way, we go... But we don't see what we're doing. We just pick up the hammer and go... Bam! And we think we're hitting the nail, but we're also hitting somebody or the nail back here, without knowing what we're doing. And somebody says, hey man, what did you do? I didn't do anything. Don't blame me. So, anyway... It's... When someone blames us for something, it's good to take a step back and say, is that so?

[37:19]

Is that so? That puts us right into the first principle of reality. Dharma language. Is that so? And from is that so, we can move in different directions. Is that so brings us to a place where we can stand without attaching to anything. We can let go of our feelings and just look at something. Oh, is that so? Let me look at it. But what we do is we say, I didn't do that. I'm not bad. We jump on something right away.

[38:25]

Defend. But just to spend time, oh, is that so? Let me look at that. Let me see if that's so. Let's look at it. It's okay to be wrong. You know, there are many stories, many koans that are about right and wrong. There's a... Joshu visited the hermit. And he asked the hermit about his practice.

[39:27]

And the hermit raised his fist like this. Joshu said, Well, the water's too shallow here for a large boat. And he left. Then he came back next day. And he asked the hermit about his practice. And the hermit went, He said, you have the authority to do anything you want. But the hermit didn't care what Joshu said. Whatever Joshu said, oh, thank you very much. You are an asshole. Thank you very much. You are wonderful. Thank you very much. Main thing is, do you know who you are?

[40:40]

Do I know who I am? And then, um, Thatcher has a verse that he says, who speaks from the first and who from the second principle? Dragons don't lie in puddles. Where dragons lurk, waves arise when no wind blows. He's really talking about these guys as, you know, they're really dragons. They really, they really know what they're doing. They're really deep. Even though the language, the speech, is very ordinary and plain. It's very ordinary. Have a cup of tea.

[41:44]

How plain can you get? He said, waves arise when no wind blows. And then he says, Oh, you real Chokei, you thin monk, you've bruised your head on the Dragon Gate. Saying that, Hofuku. He bumped up against Hofuku and he got a good little tap on the head. But he's saying, how nice. That Dharma language is no special language. When you understand that Dharma language is no special language, You can't tell the difference between ordinary language and dharma language than dragons are stirring in the deep waves without any wind blowing.

[42:49]

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