June 12th, 1988, Serial No. 00299

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Serial: 
BZ-00299
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Sunday Lecture

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Notes: 

Correct date is most likely 1988.12.06, as this is a Rohatsu talk

Transcript: 

It is a rather nice morning. Sunny, but not too hot. And we all find ourselves here for some reason. And in the same way, we're born into this world and we may or may not know exactly why. And at some point we have to figure out what we're doing and how to go about doing it and what's the best thing to do. And we have some problem sometimes in figuring that out. We may have some way of deciding what to do, but is it the right way or the wrong way? We don't want to make any mistakes. So how do we know what we're doing?

[01:09]

We can live our life for quite a long time and then one day we wake up and we say, what have I been doing? Or what am I doing? Or what is this? And sometimes we have to scratch our head and wonder. So today I want to present you with a little Zen story that addresses itself to this question. This story is from a collection of stories called Mu Man Khan, Zen Master Mu Man's collection of Zen koans.

[02:38]

And the name of this koan is, Ordinary Mind is the Tao, or Ordinary Mind is the Way. And first I'll read you the story or the koan, case as it's called. Joshu once asked Nansen, what is Tao? Nansen answered, ordinary mind is Tao. Then should we direct ourselves toward it or not? asked Joshu. If you try to direct yourself toward it, you'll go away from it, answered Nansen. Joshu continued, if we do not try, how can we know that it is the Tao?

[03:41]

Nansen replied, Tao, or the way, does not belong to knowing or not knowing. Knowing is an illusion, not knowing is not knowing. If you really attain to the Tao of no doubt, it is like the great void, so vast and boundless. How then can there be right or wrong in the Tao?" At these words, Joshu suddenly had realization. Nansen was Joshu's teacher. And at the time of this encounter, Joshu was maybe about 20, and Nansen was maybe around 50. Joshu was rather young, but he studied quite a bit.

[04:57]

and he was ready to actually start practicing the Dharma. So he became Nansen's student, very good student. And even though he had good realization, one day he asked Joshu, I mean Nansen, his teacher, this very straightforward question. What is the Tao? Tao is, of course, as most of us know, a Chinese word, which means various things. It means, on one hand, it means the way, the way things go, or the way to do something. But it also, it's like a path.

[05:59]

What's the path? What's the entrance? Where's the gate? And on the other hand, it means, what is the understanding? What is the truth? What is the reality? So it has rather broad meanings, and all those meanings together are correct. So Joshu asked Nansen, what is Tao? Or what is the way? How do we put our life in the right direction in this world? How do we know what is the right direction?

[07:03]

What's the real way to go? Simple question, but we all have it. It's the question that we all have. There are various fundamental questions. One is, who am I? Another is, what is this? And this question is, what is the way to go? So Nansen answered, ordinary mind is the Tao. Ordinary has several meanings. When we talk about ordinary or common sense, it doesn't always include the other side of reality. When we say ordinary, the ordinary way of doing things, it's our familiar way.

[08:09]

what's familiar to us. But what's familiar to us is rather exclusive. Usually our sphere of understanding of our life is quite narrow and rather dualistic. We divide up the world into little pieces But we don't see the whole thing. We have our piece of pie, but we don't see how necessarily our piece of pie includes the whole pie, or is a piece of the whole pie, or how it works together with everything. So, quite often we feel separate and isolated. So Joshu's question is probing a deep place.

[09:21]

He's saying, what is the way that, what is the Tao that includes everything? How can my mind be as big as possible? How can I know who I am in a true sense? How can I know what this is in a true sense? And how can I go? Which way can I go so that I'm always within reality?" And then Nansen answered him, If you try to direct yourself toward it, you go away from it. If you seek it, you won't find it. Seeking has the feeling of going away and looking for something.

[10:29]

We say you go to seek your fortune, or after a time you leave home and find your way. But Nansen says, if you try to seek it or try to find it as an it, it's too elusive. You can't grasp it. The reason you can't grasp it is because you're already it. This is his implication. it's pretty easy to go away someplace, but it's very hard to be where you are. Maybe the most difficult thing for us is to be where we are in an ordinary way.

[11:32]

So, In Zen, you know, we have what we call way-seeking mind, the mind that seeks Tao. And the more we seek, the closer we get to ourself. So Nansen is saying, the more we look outside of ourself, the more we look out there for it, the more we want to add something to ourself, the further away the truth goes. So in a sense, Nansen is saying,

[12:37]

We can't add something and we can't take anything away. That which can be taken away is not the Tao. And that which has to be added is not the Tao. That which you can get is not the Tao. Then Joshu continued, he said, but if we don't try, how can we know that it's the Tao? It's a good question. So actually, even though seeking it, you can't find it, you have to seek it. You have to seek it anyway. For some strange reason,

[13:38]

even though it's right here, we have to go way around and come back to it. Sometimes I see students who started practicing 20 years ago, 25 years ago, and they practice for a while in a very strong way, and then for some reason they leave. I don't see them for 15 years. And then one day, they show up on the door, at the door, ready to practice again, and in a very intense way. And I could say, well, why didn't you just stay here? What'd you have to go away for? But the fact of the matter is, they had to go away. Each one of us has to go through whatever it is that we have to go through. And we can't compare one person to another.

[14:43]

The way for each one of us is the same and different. Each one of us has our own unique destiny. Not fate, but destiny. What we have to accomplish or what we have to go through before we can actually come to ourself, settle on ourself. So we go through many paths looking for the path. Not always so easy to just cut off false paths or to stop doing something just because we want to stop doing it. We may want to accomplish something, but the karma of our life, the result, the karmic result of our life is not so easy to, not always so easy to drop.

[16:00]

So sometimes we have to go through many lives in this world before we can come back around to just being where we are. So the path isn't difficult or easy. It's just what it is for each one of us. And each one of us is on some path. Tao has, you can see two meanings, or two ways of Tao. One way is, one side is what we call underlying spiritual reality.

[17:03]

We call that the dark side. The dark side, dark means where there are no distinctions. Everything is equal. The light side is where brightness shows up each thing in its individuality. Each thing is separate and complete in itself, seemingly. And these are two sides of the Tao, two sides of our path. One dark side, is although it's necessary to see the Tao completely by realizing the dark side where everything is completely equal and non-differentiated.

[18:18]

So even though all of us are sitting here as individuals We're all expressions. Each one of us is an expression of the dark side. It's like the level of the earth. Beneath the earth, all the roots of the plants don't see each other. But in the sunlight, you pick out roses and cabbages and ferns and gladiolas. Each thing stands out in its own uniqueness. But the roots are in utter darkness. springing up from the same earth.

[19:26]

So there's the Tao of utter darkness and the Tao of bright light. And when we realize the Tao of utter darkness and the Tao of bright light as one path, then we have some understanding of the Tao. Keizan, who is the ancestor who developed the Soto sect in Japan after Dogen Zenji, had a great realization when his teacher, Tetsu Gikai, was talking about this koan. Tetsugikai was lecturing on this koan, and Keizan suddenly said, I've got it.

[20:45]

And Tetsugikai said, what did you get? And Keizan said, a jet black iron ball speeds through the dark night. And Tetsugikai wanted something more than that. And he said, what else can you say? And Keizan said, when hungry, I sleep, and when thirsty, I drink. Excuse me. Did you get some water? The lady behind you in the row is having coffee.

[21:49]

So then Nansen replied, Tao does not belong to knowing or to not knowing. Knowing is an illusion. Knowing, in this sense of knowing, means just an idea. It doesn't mean direct knowing or intuition, but just an idea. That's an illusion. we have to get beyond our idea. And this is why we practice zazen, to leave all of our ideas behind and just enter into the realm of reality. So, then he says, not knowing is blankness.

[23:19]

Blankness, I don't like the word blankness so well, I don't think it fits, but I would rather say not knowing is just simply not knowing. So knowing is an illusion, and not knowing is ignorance, or confusion, or As human beings, we can't ignore what's in front of us. Although we do tend to ignore. When something becomes a little too difficult to grasp, it's very easy to ignore it or to find a diversion. Very easy to find a diversion. So, rather than really face the reality, it's very easy for us to find all kinds of diversions, and very rare to find ourself actually trying to penetrate the problem.

[24:38]

I noticed that with my six-year-old, who is pretty smart, but he'll come up against a problem, and rather than try to penetrate the problem, I can see how if he just went a little bit, he could penetrate the problem. but he'd rather fall into diversion, playing with some other toy, because it's just easier. And we do that a lot. We're always looking for another toy, another diversion, another way to play, rather than to really find out what the problem is, or penetrate the problem. And so we need someone to say, do it, do it. I was thinking about the path when I was taking a walk down through the garden.

[25:57]

I was thinking about, what is the path right now? I'm walking through this garden. walking down toward the ocean, what is the path? What is this path? And then the thought came to me that I seem to be walking down this path and it looks like the path is stationary and I'm walking, going somewhere. But actually, wherever I go, I'm just walking where I am. I'm always just where I am, no matter where I am. And we call this the scenery of our life.

[27:02]

The events and places and phenomena is like the scenery of our life. But in a sense, we're always walking in place. And what we experience and feel is bound up with our surroundings. but we're always where we are, which is here. So here, it just happens to be wherever we are. There's an old saying that the bridge is flowing while the water stands still. when I was walking down the path, I could feel that the path is also walking me.

[28:19]

I am walking the path, but the path is walking me. I can say, I am breathing, But actually, some breathing is breathing me. Because we're always looking at something from one point of view, pretty hard to see what's really happening. when we see from the point of view of the dark side and the light side, we can de-center ourself. In other words, we don't become so self-centered.

[29:20]

And most of our problems with the Tao come from being self-centered. So my old teacher used to always say, don't be selfish. He'd put it in those terms. Don't be selfish, like my mother used to say. But my mother's don't be selfish and my teacher's don't be selfish are miles apart. But maybe my mother's don't be selfish was the same, I'm not sure. But they belong to each other. Definitely belong to each other. So, there are many daos, many paths. We have the path of a mother, the path of a father, the path of a psychiatrist, the path of a gas station attendant, the path of a seaman, the path of a dancer, artist, whatever you are, you have a path.

[30:32]

a way to go. Tramp has the path of a tramp, which is a way to go. In a way, a monk is a lot like a tramp, a lot like a bum. But the way to go is a little different. But a monk can identify with a bum. No special attachment to anything, yet great concern for our surroundings. Great compassion for what's around us. Compassion means something like suffering with identifying with others' suffering, because we're not separate from others.

[31:43]

But it also means enjoying with others, identifying with the joy that everyone has. That's also great compassion. to be not separate from whatever. So a Muman, Master Muman, who collected this story, said, questioned by Joshu, Nansen immediately shows that the tile is disintegrating, the ice is dissolving, and no communication whatsoever is possible. He's putting him down, you know, seemingly, but this is the commentator's way of giving him a lot of praise.

[32:48]

It's like saying the opposite of what you mean. If someone says, well, that's a pretty, your child is very nice, very handsome. You say, oh, not really. He's not so good. So it's a way of saying, he's not so good. He's talking too much. He should shut up and maybe be a little more direct. He's giving too much away. He says, no communication whatsoever is possible. And then he talks about Joshu. He says, even though Joshu may be enlightened, he can truly get it only after studying for 30 more years, which actually is true. To have some realization is not so difficult. But to manifest that realization day by day, moment by moment in your daily life, that's difficult.

[34:00]

So once we have some realization, that's the beginning of our practice. And the rest of our life, 30 years is just a number that he picked out of air. 30 years means forever. You must cultivate this understanding every moment of your life before you can be really mature. So it's possible when the first time you sit in zazen that you have realization. And then the fact that you continue to practice is the maturing of your life, starting from that realization. So, in a sense, we all have realization. But how to manifest it and how to mature it, that's the problem.

[35:08]

How to find the Tao, how to practice the Tao. The way you find the Tao is to just be the Tao. It's right under your feet. All you have to do is do something. There may be an electric light in the room, but in order for it to shine, you have to turn on the switch. You can look at the light and say, I know that the light is somewhere in this room. Where is the light? You're looking at the bulb. the light will shine in the bulb if you just turn on the switch. So, thirty years or your whole lifetime is of maturing your understanding is the Tao.

[36:17]

But, excuse me for saying so, If the Tao is something that you can name, then it's not the Tao. And then Master Mumon has a poem to sum it up. He says, hundreds of flowers in spring, the moon in autumn, a cool breeze in summer, and the snow in winter. He names all the seasons and their characteristic marks. And then he says, if there is no vain cloud in your mind, for you, it is a good season. As things change, if we know how to go with things, Every season is a good season.

[37:22]

Every day is a good day. Every moment is a good moment, beyond good and bad. In these two sides of the path, the bright path, or the path that we initiate, is one side, and the dark path, or the path of life itself, Moving us is the other side. So how we move, how we make our path together with the way things go, together, turning and being turned, turning things and being turned by life itself is how we find our way. What is life asking from us? And what are we contributing?

[38:25]

Is our path the same as the path? Is the path the same as our path? Ah, big question. This is the koan. If we know how to move with things, without aversion or attachment, we have some possibility of seeing the path under our feet, moment by moment. And when we fall off, we get back on. The characteristic of the path of the Tao is that you fall off, but you get back on. But even though you fall off, you're still on. saving grace, even though we fall off, we're still on.

[39:39]

But if we don't make the effort to stay on, to come back up, it's not the same. So the characteristic of practicing the Tao is that as we fall off, we come back on, we climb back up. And this struggle to climb back up is what our life is about, to stay on. And we're always falling off. We're always straying, always getting lost, always forgetting. But we come back, get back on, go straight. to manifest the path, or to be the Tao, takes all of our effort, all of our energy, our complete involvement in life itself, without aversion or attachment.

[40:55]

Aversion is keeping things away, and attachment is clinging to something. And both are a dead end because they stop us up. They close us down. So how do we stay open and moving with things all the time without aversion, too much aversion, or too much attachment? A little aversion and a little attachment is good for us. Oh. If we're too pure, we can't really live in this world. So a little mud, a little badness is good for us. But if we get stuck with it, we have a problem. Thank you very much.

[41:59]

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