Mountain and Waters Sutra. The mountains and waters of the immediate present are the manifestation and the expression of the path of the ancient Buddhas. Together, abiding in their Dharma positions, they have realized completeness. They have consummated the qualities of thorough exhaustiveness. Because These mountains and waters are events prior to the kalpa of emptiness. They are the livelihood of this immediate present. Because they are the self before the emergence of signs, they are the penetrating liberation of immediate actuality. Mountains lack none of the qualities proper to them. Water lacks none of the qualities proper to it.

[01:05]

So Patty asked yesterday about the kind of cultural context of mountains and waters and this language as it applies to Asia. Unless people on the back wall want to move their cushions over here or wherever you're welcome to. So again, in Japanese, this is Sansui Kyo, Mountains and Waters Sutra. And this Sansui, which is mountains and water, also means landscape. So this is the whole terrain and topography and landscape of our sacred teachings, of the Buddha way, of our life. And this word Sansui is used in Asia for, in East Asia, for landscapes like landscape paintings.

[02:18]

You know, all those paintings of waters and mountains and wide vistas and the space around them. In the inkbrush paintings of Asia, that's sunsweet. Those are landscapes, mountains, and water. And the gardens, the garden art of East Asia, that's landscape, gardens, sunsweet, mountains, and waters, including those dry rock gardens. So we're looking at the topography of our Buddha heart in this practice and in the Seshin. And so far we've mostly talked about mountains. And, you know, mountains have the association of ascetic practice, of austere practice. So in both China and Japan, for a long time, going back before Buddhism came even, there have been

[03:25]

Those who dwelled in the mountains, sages who dwelled in the mountains in Japan, the Yamabushi, the mountain practitioners, sat up all night, sat for days, fasted. On Mount Hiei, northeast of Kyoto, there are people who actually run through the mountains at night, barefoot. This is severe practice, appropriate to talk about. during the first three days of Seshi. The mountain's face is often severe, stark, steep, slick. And also in mountain practice, traditionally, there are ceremonies and rituals. And again, both in China and Japan, ways of pushing ourselves, pushing our limitations, pushing, cultivating in a way that maybe is not the spirit of our zazen, actually.

[04:40]

Still, in Sashin, it's part of what we have to face. Mountains also represent wisdom and insight, so part of This kind of mountain practice, this tough practice, this practice of facing the side of the mountain on the wall in front of you is insight to see, to open up to the mountains walking. So this is painful practice. When the mountains walk on water. Do the mountains feel pain? Mountains give birth to mountains through earthquakes and volcanoes, wrenching eruptions. And some rocks, if you look at them, you can see they've been through a lot.

[05:45]

Some mountains are steep and difficult to climb. So that's the side of mountains. But this is not just the Sutra of Mountains, it's the Sutra of Mountains and Water. So I want to turn to the water today. And the association of water in East Asia is compassion, the other side of wisdom, the water of kindness. the water of soothing, the water of healing and relief. The bodhisattva of compassion floats on the water often, many images. Whereas Manjushri is often found in the mountains, the bodhisattva of wisdom, the sword riding a lion. But part of what

[06:49]

What Duggan emphasizes in talking about water is how we see water in different ways, how water is not just what we think it is. And this is also appropriate to compassion. So again, just a little bit of Mr. Duggan. He says, water is not strong or weak, not wet or dry, not moving or still, not cool or warm. limited to any of those. Sometimes water is wet, sometimes maybe it's dry ice. It's not either of those, essentially. It's not moving or still, because sometimes it's moving, sometimes it's still. What is water? It can be either. It's not cool or warm, fundamentally. It can be either. He also says it's not existent or non-existent, not delusion or enlightenment. When frozen, it is hard as diamond. Who can break it?

[07:52]

When melted, it is softer than whey. Who can break it? Thus one cannot doubt the qualities it manifestly has. So water finds flows and finds many forms. Water fills the space of the vessel it's in. For the time being, you should study this time when you must look upon the waters of the ten directions, in the ten directions. This is not a study that's only about when humans or celestial beings see water. There's also the study of how does water see water. Because water cultivates and realizes water, there is the investigation of water expressing water. So how does water express water? How does water study itself? How does water see itself? How does water become water?

[08:54]

How does water allow itself to be water? And he goes on, and I started to read this yesterday, about how water can be seen in very different ways by different beings. Again, he says there are some who see water as jewel necklaces. That doesn't mean that when we see a jewel necklace that that's water. For those who see water as jewel necklaces, how do we see what they think of as water? He says there are some kinds of beings who see water as beautiful flowers, but it's not that they use what we think of as flowers as water, and so forth. Dragons and fish see water as palaces and pavilions. They see water maybe as we see the air we swim through.

[10:01]

Some may see water as precious substances and jewels, or as forests and walls, or as the natural state of pure liberation, or as the real human body, or as the characteristics of the body and nature of the mind. People see it as water. These different ways of seeing are the conditions under which water is killed or given life. It is established that what is seen differs according to the species. For the moment, we should question this. Do you say that in viewing one object, the views are varied? Or do you say it is misapprehending multiple forms as one object? Is the water the fish sees a different water than the water we see? Whatever a fish thinks of as water, I have no idea.

[11:12]

But, you know, is that water? Or is what we see water as water water? So we've sort of been talking about the mountains in this way, but to look at the water as alive, as not what we think it is, as having many qualities, So we don't even have to go into all these different kinds of beings and how they see water, even just in the human world. There are many ways to see water. What is the reality of the water? Just limiting ourselves to what humans think of as water. So on a hot, dry day in the sun, water is so cool and refreshing.

[12:15]

Maybe there's nothing as good as a glass of water. But water is also tears. Maybe the whole ocean is just the tears of the world. So as an old Zen master said, cry me a river that leads to your ocean. I think that maybe was Smokey Robinson Taisho. Cry me a river that leads to your ocean. So it's said in the Letter Sutra that the reason why Buddhas appear in the world is because of the pain in the world, because beings are in pain.

[13:17]

This is why Buddhas appear in the world. So the mountains know pain maybe when they are pushed up and scraped against each other. Maybe water knows pain too. The reason for Buddhas appearing in the world is simply that there is pain here in the world. And Buddhas appear to try and help relieve the pain. And I think the reason why Buddhas appear on your cushion is because there is pain. All of us are here because we have some awareness of our pain.

[14:18]

All of us are here in pain. So John Lennon once said, glad is a concept by which we measure our pain. I'll say it again. Glad is a concept by which we measure our pain. John Lennon said, I'll say it again. So I think, just to say, I was sad when John Lennon died. But as the years go by, I miss him more and more. Just imagine the songs he'd be writing now. people going to Boston this week would be singing them in the streets. God is a concept by which we measure our pain.

[15:34]

I'd say Buddha is a practice by which we realize our pain. I'll say it again. Buddha is a practice by which we realize our pain. Every one of us has some pain. Each of us has our own special gift and each of us has our own special pain. So, you know, different kinds of pain. Pain in our knee, pain in our backs, shoulders, so forth. Some pain is some particular loss or sadness.

[16:43]

Some pain is existential. Some pain is spiritual. Some pains go back to stuff that happened when we were two years old or younger. Every person here has realized, has felt some pain. Otherwise you wouldn't be here. And it's that pain that leads to Buddha, that flows to the ocean of Buddha. So when we face the wall, we face our pain. Maybe we're always facing the wall as we go through life, but when we stop and come to the mountains and do Seshin, do this hard practice, here we are.

[17:49]

So Buddha is just about not trying to run away from our pain. Not thinking we can get some quick fix, or even some slow fix, that the nature of the landscape of mountains and waters includes the flowers and the fish and the deer and all that is beautiful in the world, and the breeze coming in to relieve our heat, and the fresh water that we drink, and also the pain that brought us here. There was a guy who lived in, I think, in Afghanistan, or maybe he was in Iraq, I don't know, in one of those troubled places now, who lived around the same time as Dogen, and he was a great poet named Rumi. Was that Afghanistan where he lived? Do you know? Yeah. We now call it Afghanistan.

[18:52]

I don't know what they called it then. Persia? Persia was Iran, I think. I don't know. Anyway, he lived in that area. Maybe Iran's the next war we're going to have. I don't know. Anyway, he once said, the cure for pain is through the pain, or the cure for pain is in the pain. And yet, Dogen's emphasis on seeing the waters differently and seeing it from different points of view, I think, is very helpful. in our practice of realizing our pain. The pain is not just what you think it is. So, as we start to be strong enough and upright enough to feel the pain we feel, and the waters may flow, still, the waters of the cool, refreshing water and the waters of our tears are not what we think they are, or they're not limited to that.

[19:57]

So Buddha said, going back to the Mountains and Water Sutra for a little bit, Buddha said, all things ultimately liberated have no abode. You should know that although they are liberated and have no bondage, all things dwell in their dharma position. When you're actually willing to just sit still in your dharma position, at your place in the zendo, in your position in the sasheen, in your body and mind in this lifetime, there's ultimate liberation and also there's no place that you can rest. Water is constantly flowing, even more than mountains, we can say. Sometimes water sits in a pool and stagnates. Lots of mosquitoes come. And then sometimes the rain comes and the water overflows and starts running.

[21:30]

So it's OK if it hurts. In fact, That's what it means to be in your dharma position, to be willing to face the way it hurts this particular period, this particular lifetime. We've all got our share. And, you know, it may look like there are people out there who are, you know, living the high life and have everything they want, and some people almost seem like they don't feel any pain. the mountains flow and the waters flow. So, that's not our problem. Here we are in Seshing and each of you, in your own way, knows something of your own pain. You're entitled to your pain. That's the Dharma position of your pain. And, you know, Buddha is here to relieve our pain and to show us that actually

[22:45]

being right in the middle of that pain is ultimate liberation. It doesn't mean that the pain goes away. Can we just sit in the middle of the pain that we have? And if we have to change our leg position, that's fine. And if we have to get up and do walking for a while, that's fine. And if it will help you to go to a therapist, there's some good ones in the room. you know, please go and, you know, be helped in that way. So it doesn't mean that we have to wallow in our pain. It doesn't mean that we have to kind of, you know, make our pain worse. You've already got your pain. You don't have to kind of fix it or make it worse. It's just right here. And, you know, whatever helps, please, you know, if there's some meditation technique that will help you stay upright in the middle of The pain of being on your cushion, great, please use it. Just sitting doesn't mean pushing away all of the things that can help.

[23:52]

Whatever medicine is available, please use it. Still, we each have the Dharma position of our own pain. This being so, Dogen says of water, When humans see water, there is a way of seeing it as flowing incessantly. But that flowing has many kinds. This is just one aspect of people's perceptions. It is said to flow through the earth, flow through the sky, flow upwards, flow downwards, flow through one bend, flow in nine abyssal troughs. Rising, it becomes clouds. Descending, it becomes pools. So the water of our life, you know, I described the vapor rising in the Rocky Mountains as the sun hits them in the valleys. Water moves in many ways. Our pain moves in many ways.

[24:56]

So our pain is alive, too. And it's not that we can exactly control it. I mean, there are some herbs that may help manage it so that you can stand to be there. And again, if... some period of zazen, you're actually feeling bliss and joy, that's great. It's actually not separate from the thing. So we should also enjoy our lives, enjoy our practice, enjoy Buddha. Enjoy the waters of compassion. But I think, you know, it's also good to confess, you know, it hurts, at least some of the time. So, speaking of Asian lore, Dogen quotes an old Confucian book that says, the path of water is to become rain and dew when it goes up into the sky, to become rivers and streams when it descends to the earth.

[26:04]

What this says is that while the path of water is not yet consciously known by water, yet water does actualize it. While it is not that water is unaware, water does actualize its course. So in our practice, naturally, you know, the water of pain and the water of relief, the water of our tears and the refreshing water that soothes our thirst, you know, they come together and they flow in many ways. And we can't always track it. And yet, the water is the water. The pain is the pain. The pain is seeing the pain in various ways. The relief from pain is seeing the relief from pain in various ways. So there's no perfect posture. There's no perfect combination of cushions or chairs, or even if we lie on our back, it does us in that way, which is possible.

[27:10]

Still, there may be some pain. And this is how it is to be alive. And this being alive, you know, well, I'll try not to talk about the mountains so much anymore. Again, I think even the mountains know pain in some ways. Even the sky knows pain in some ways. But that's their problem. So again, this practice of studying the mountains and waters, of studying the inner and deeper realities of our life, all of the things that are moving around, under and around our cushion, through this body and mind, through the karma of the dharma position that you're in.

[28:15]

And of course we do it together. It flows around the room. We help each other to do this practice of being willing to face our pain. We all do it together, each with the pain we've got. So it's not about figuring something out. It doesn't matter if you understand what Dogen says. It just doesn't matter. It's not important. All of the myriad interpretations, how does it go? Thousands of words, myriad interpretations are only to free you from obstructions. Let the waters flow. Cry me a river that leads to your ocean. It's OK to just be upright in the middle of the pain and joy, because they come together, of this life.

[29:29]

So our practice is really just about being present, this immediate presence of being willing to face what's on the law in front of us, what's in our heart, the confusion, the grasping, the pushing away, the resistance, all of the shifting tides of the joys and pains of this dharma position. And how do we support each other to do that together? How do we support each other to find our own dignified posture with which to be the person we are? The cure for pain is in the pain. Buddha is a practice by which we realize our pain.

[30:45]

So I read a couple of those poems that Dogen wrote in his later years sitting in the mountains of Eheji. Another one goes, how sad my faded picture of a figure. Although over time my eyes and ears have blurred, there's something difficult to let go and easy to soak in at night in my grass hut. Sound of autumn rain and valley streams. I'll say it again. How sad, my faded picture of a figure. Although over time my eyes and ears have blurred, there's something difficult to let go and easy to soak in. Sitting at night in my grass hut, sounds of autumn rain and valley streams. So it is sad. are the faded image of ourselves.

[32:00]

So we're all various degrees of old. Some of us are still young at heart, but even then, it's interesting. Often young people are very aware of death, are very aware of sadness, realize some truth, some reality of this life in this world and feel sad. So Nan was talking about her son feeling the pain of what's happening in the world now. And your daughter? How old is she? That's a difficult age. I think I was very sad when I was 15. And yet, as some of us get older, some of us are even into our 50s. Can anyone hear it?

[33:03]

Well, never mind. Or beyond, anyway. And things fade. I can't see as well. I can't remember as well. My eyes and ears blur. Even so, even in the sadness of things fading, of possibilities evaporating, of noble institutions collapsing and so forth. There's something difficult to let go and easy to soak in. Nighttime in my grass hut, sounds of autumn rain and valley streams. So we don't have those sounds here this session so much. There's not so much sound of water. There's sounds of jet planes instead. We have the sounds of the birds. But anyway, this flowing of rain, this falling of water, the sky crying, the rivers flowing to the ocean.

[34:10]

Something very pleasing and comforting about that sound. So they even have these little fountains they sell now. boutiques and other fancy stores where you can have a little fountain right in your own house. Because the sound is so nice. It's easy to soak in such sound. It's difficult to let go. So the waters refresh us, you know. They do. Sometimes hot water is refreshing. Sometimes cool water. sometimes teardrops. So please take care of your knees and back and legs and heart in this session.

[35:17]

Be kind to yourself for the sake of all of us. We're all in this together. In this floating zendo, that shifts and shakes as we walk. So that's all I have to say today. Does anyone have a comment or question they want to share? I'm very aware of this reflection that you provided in the first couple of meals, so it's, I mean, it's a lot different. Yes. Yes. Like mountains, water moves in many, many ways. Yes.

[36:19]

Turkey. Rumi lived in Turkey. It was not Afghanistan. Of course enough. Ron. Questioner 2 Well, that's part of it. Right.

[37:33]

That's part of the point of this Mountains and Water Sutra exactly, that we think of mountains as enduring, and they are, and yet even mountains are flowing on water. Even mountains shift and change. We think of water as flowing and evaporating, and yet there's something enduring about water too. We could not live... How many days could we live without drinking water? Not many. Three? Not many. I think of all of the images in Siddhartha or hundreds of songs and poems. To me, water represents the flowing, ever-changing aspects of life. Nothing is free, although mountains endure the water constantly. But I think the point of Dogen's teaching here, at one point, is just to see the limitation of our own seeing, to see the limitation of our own

[39:04]

view of our own limitations, even, that mountains and water move in many ways, and that it's an endless study to investigate these mountains and waters. So we're just making a little, another little step or two, another few drops. One last thing. John? I'd love to see an earlier reflection of Tony. Say it again. Good. Thank you very much, all of you, for being willing to come and share your pain with all of us. Beings are nimblest

[40:01]

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