I am allowed to taste the truth without a target as a purpose. Good evening everybody. Are you feeling better? Yeah, I am. I didn't take attendance last Thursday because that was sort of a... I didn't, you know, I wasn't expecting necessarily people to come because it was an odd time. So I am going to really kind of quickly try to review the lines. And those of you who are visitors and haven't been in this class, bear with us, it may be a little esoteric or picky or something. So this is the fourth, no, this is the fifth class, right? Yeah, right, this is the fifth class. We have one more next Tuesday night.

[01:01]

So the class last Thursday was the fourth class. And we covered the lines beginning with, it's like the taste of the five-flavored herb. Before that, you recall, we went into all of that about the double-split hexagram and the relative and absolute integrate and the five ranks and all this stuff. That was nice, remember? So then right after that it says, it's like the taste of the five-flavored herb, like the diamond thunderbolt. And that, those metaphors refer to the five ranks. And the thing about the five-flavored herb is that this is a Chinese, you know, a Chinese, what do you call it, legend or something or custom or... Anyway, the thing about the five-flavored herb is that in one taste

[02:05]

are all the other tastes. So there are five flavors to this herb, but when you put it in your mouth and you taste one of the tastes, all the tastes are included in that. Perhaps, of course, it makes sense, right? It's hard to imagine tasting something and tasting five tastes in it, although maybe you can if you taste the... What do you think, Tenzo-sama, if you taste the stew, can you taste, is it one taste or can you distinguish five different tastes? I don't know. Good question. Anyway, the idea here is that in one taste all the others are included, and in one of the five ranks all the others are included, lest we think that it's separate things. All of them are included in one. If they're correctly balanced, you can't separate them. You couldn't separate them, yeah. If they're correctly balanced, one is too much and you can tell. Yeah, so maybe you could tell, oh, in this soup there is this, this, this and this, but if it's a good soup, it's one taste.

[03:08]

So that's the idea. But the Diamond Thunderbolt, the thing about that one is that that also refers to five because it's the Vajra, which is a religious implement and many of you are familiar with that, right? The Vajra is the Diamond Thunderbolt, is a symbol of emptiness or the wisdom that cuts through the phenomenal world and sees to the heart of things the empty nature of all things and that's symbolized by a Vajra by a Diamond Thunderbolt, which is a little gizmo that they use in ceremonies and one kind of a Vajra has five points on it, on the end of it. So it's like the five flavored herbs, like the Diamond Thunderbolt, one of the points of the Diamond Thunderbolt include all the points. There's one taste of emptiness. So those lines are telling us then that the five ranks is one thing,

[04:11]

even though it's divided up into five, it's one and each includes the other. Then we spent a great deal of time on the next two lines, which I would say that maybe my favorite translation and I proposed a whole different range of translations, but my favorite translation is, the exact center is wondrously inclusive. So you can see how that connects, the taste of the five flavored herbs, the Diamond Thunderbolt, the five-pointed Vajra, in each point is everything. This exact center point, which includes all the five ranks, is totally inclusive. And then the next line, which clearly translates as inquiry and response come up together. An interesting sort of cultural note is that the word for inquiry is the same as the word for drumming.

[05:15]

How do you like that? To inquire, so if you're asking something, it's like you're beating on something and the word for response is like singing. So inquiry is like this kind of a movement and response is like that kind of a movement. So one translation for this could be, the exact center is wondrously inclusive, drumming and singing come up together. Or you could say question and answer come up together or you could say effort and result come up together. When you said drumming, I thought of summoning. Yeah, right. Like knocking on a door. But the idea here is that just in the act of knocking, immediately right there, not later on, but in the act of knocking, the door is open. It's very much like Dogen's Beginner's Mind, or the idea of practice and realization being one thing. So that's where that kind of teaching comes from, that's where that teaching is indicated, in lines like that.

[06:16]

Then the next one, transmitting the essence and transmitting the process, it includes stopping and it includes going on. So that's where Cleary says it includes integration and it includes the road. I translated it in a way that shows the parallelism between those two concepts. One is holding and the other is opening up, closing and opening, or non-doing and doing, or quietness and activity, that sort of thing. So transmitting, this teaching includes both sides of that. And then the next line we had a lot of fun with, because what does Cleary say? Naturally... Naturally real... No, merging is auspicious, do not violate it.

[07:19]

Seems to be, if not a mistake, then taking a minor meaning of the word and making it into how you translate the line. Because really it doesn't mean exactly that. Master Sheng Yen translates merging as making mistakes. So I translate these lines as, instead of merging is auspicious, do not violate it. To be off the mark but wholehearted is wonderful. Just don't be stubborn. That's the crime. So the reason why Master Sheng Yen says about this is that, you remember in the fifth of the five ranks, where the circle is entirely black, remember? Which is the equivalent in the ox-herding pictures to returning to the marketplace with gift-bestowing hands, like we say in our ceremonies when somebody finally graduates from Green Gulch,

[08:25]

you know, and goes off, rides off into the sunset to benefit the world. We say they return to the marketplace with gift-bestowing hands, which is the last of the ranks. Which means that now they just go into the ordinary, completely be ordinary, but the Dharma will be manifested in everything that they do. Which is to say they go around making stupid mistakes, just like everybody else, and doing the same thing that everybody does, but somehow there's wondrous activity in their ordinariness. So this is the saying. To make mistakes, to be off the mark, is great, you know. To be just out there, like everybody else, making mistakes, and not appearing as some great enlightened sage, but just be out there along with the rest of us, pulling and hauling and doing what you do, that's great. Just don't be stubborn, just don't hold on to your mistakes, and you're missing the mark. In other words, flow with things, flow with your mistakes, flow with life as it goes in an ordinary way.

[09:28]

That's the difference between this person who graduated, you know, all the five ranks, and someone who didn't, is that this person totally makes their mistakes, wholeheartedly, and then goes on and makes another mistake, wholeheartedly and joyfully, and then goes on and makes another mistake, and then goes on. And so this is great and very liberating for all of us who make mistakes, to realize that we don't have to change and be perfect, we just have to be more true to our mistakes and more grandiose and more, you know, ourselves within the midst of them. And then I also quoted Dogen's wonderful remark, which I always think of, when he said, my practice is one continuous mistake. So then the next line says, true nature is inconceivable, it has nothing to do with delusion or enlightenment. Or, another translation that you could use is, what's really natural

[10:30]

has a wondrous beauty. Because beauty and inconceivability are, both those words could be used to translate the same character. So, all this we're talking about, the dual mirror, the real suchness, the truth of how things really are, is beyond enlightenment and beyond delusion. It's not really something that we can name, conceive of, distinguish from something else. The nature of it is that it is just what everything is. It's really, it's inconceivable, or it's beautiful. And that's the nature of things, that kind of beauty that's beyond words, beyond understanding. And it has nothing to do, so it's beyond delusion and enlightenment. Those things are concepts that don't touch the pristine beauty of this dual mirror. Then the next line is,

[11:31]

each moment is the nexus of causes and conditions. With causal conditions, time and season, I translate as, each moment is the nexus of causes and conditions. Each moment shines in bright tranquility. So, this inconceivable suchness, beauty of the world itself, is present on each moment, and each moment is the nexus of all causes and conditions in the whole world, and each moment shines gloriously in bright tranquility. So small it can enter spacelessness, and so large it's beyond location. The separation of even, so all this is all about the dual mirror, and how it is, and how wonderful it is, and so on. Then, the last lines that we did last time say, however, you know, there's always a but.

[12:33]

But, if you're even a hair's breadth away from it, then you're out of tune. You'll be out of tune with your life and with your world. So the good news is that, you know, we're always only a hair's breadth away from it, so it's very close, like in the beginning. Remember the silver bowl and the snow were very close to each other, although they could be distinguished. So the good news is that we're always very close to it. We're always no more than a hair's breadth away, but that that hair's breadth makes all the difference, and we do feel, we have to admit, often out of tune with ourselves and with our world, because of that hair's breadth deviation. So now, we go on from there. So the next lines quite follow from those, because now we sort of went to the heights

[13:35]

of describing the dual mirror and how wonderful it is, and how nothing, how it's beyond everything, how distinguishing between enlightenment and delusion, don't touch it, how beautiful it is, how it's the nature of the shining, tranquil nature of each moment, and all that. However, there's this problem that if we're a little bit off from it, we feel out of tune. So, that being the case, there are sudden and gradual. As Cleary says, now there are sudden and gradual in connection with which are set up basic approaches. And Master Sheng Yen says, now there is sudden and gradual in order to establish the fundamental guidelines.

[14:37]

And Bill Powell says, now there is sudden and gradual because principles and approaches have been set up. Yes? Is it, the one word in that sense that always caught my attention is the now part. Is that like a didactic, like now there are this and that and the other, or is it like now there's this and there used to be something, something else? No, it's more like therefore. Okay. That's deviation and you are off. So, there is sudden and gradual. Sudden and gradual enlightenment? Yes, but mostly sudden and gradual teachings, sudden and gradual paths and approaches. In other words, these are two schools, the sudden school and the gradual school. A whole approach to Dharma is a sudden approach and a gradual approach. Without going into detail exactly what that means. You know what it means, right? Gradually.

[15:40]

It's the difference between there is no mirror is the sudden approach. To realize there is no mirror is the sudden approach. And the gradual approach is to polish the mirror gradually and make it clean. So, because we have human consciousness and we do get a little bit off from it and we're out of tune, therefore, see, somebody said there is sudden and there is gradual. These are approaches, these are schools. They are actually schools of Buddhism, ways of practicing. So, there are sudden and gradual and schools and approaches are established. That's how I translate it. So, there are sudden and gradual and schools and approaches are established. Because, you know, if we say, well, this is the dual mirror, this is what it is and so on and we all go home, even though everything that we do will be a manifestation of the dual mirror

[16:41]

no matter what we do, the truth of the matter is that we will be out of tune and we won't be able to find any way of making that a reality in our lives unless we have some way to do something about it. So, there are sudden and gradual. And there are various schools and approaches are established. Then it says, once schools are established or distinguished one from another, because remember there is no distinguishing anything in the dual mirror. Everything that appears in the dual mirror shines brightly without any distinction. So, once schools and approaches are distinguished, then there are standards. In the dual mirror there are no standards. There is nothing outside of it. Nothing that isn't perfect. Nothing. Even horrible things.

[17:41]

What we consider horrible things in the dual mirror are perfect things. But, since our minds deviate from the dual mirror and we have a big gap, we have sudden and gradual and we have schools and once there are schools there are standards. So, there is a way to practice in a way that is not correct practice. Let's see, Bill Powell translates, with the distinction of principles and approaches standards arise. And Sheng Yen translates, when the fundamental guidelines are clear it becomes the rule. A little different. So, you got that? You with it? OK, we'll do a little bit more of what people have on their minds. So, the next line, but even though the basis is reached and the approach comprehended,

[18:42]

true eternity still flows. Bill Powell has it, even if one penetrates the principle and masters the approach, the true constant continues as an outflow, which means a defilement, which I think, I think that's not right, I don't agree with that. In this case, outflow is a defilement, not something positive, which is not the way clearly it translates. And Master Sheng Yen translates, realization of the basic principle is the ultimate standard. He takes the standard part and sticks it in this line. Genuine, constant, yet flowing. And I looked at the characters and it's very interesting because the character for, that clearly takes as,

[19:46]

to reach, the basis is reached also means to reach something is to come to it, to come to the limit of it, to arrive at it. So, it also means the limit of something. So, the way I translated it is, so this is all about schools and approaches, right? And standards. So, what I translated it, how I translated it is, at the very limit of schools and approaches, endless reality flows. So, schools and approaches are limitations, right? I mean, they're, every school is a system, right? Even in Buddha Dharma, every school of Buddhism is a system, after all, it's a human system. And therefore, it's limited. But we need human systems in order to find a way

[20:55]

to the dual mirror, even though it's always there and it's always with us, but we're off from it. So, we need these limited systems to find our way to it. But in the middle of each system, not in the middle or at the end, in other words, the limit of each system is the true eternity of the dual mirror that's endlessly flowing. Or all the systems, like here's, you know, it's this system, this box. Well, if you come to the edge of the box, true eternity is flowing all around it. And whatever system that you, so that means you have to penetrate, if you're over here, kind of like stuck in the middle of the box, you know, and you don't really see the edge of it, you've missed the true eternity. But at the limit of every system, true eternity is flowing all around it. Anyway, that's my interpretation. Well, it brings up the question

[21:57]

of what's going on inside the box. I mean, true eternity is out here. Pardon me? I mean, there's a separation here between true eternity and what's going on inside the box. Well, of course, you know, that's a spatial metaphor. I mean, that means that every moment of the practice of what's in the box is the box, right? And every moment, there's that limit that's present. Is it open for discussion yet? Go ahead. As I read that, I thought that once basic approaches have been understood, or basis understood, in other words, on an experiential level, you've experienced the first inklings of enlightenment, and the approach comprehended, you begin to see actually how you can start manifesting enlightenment, enlightened mind, you mistake that for eternity, so you begin to cling

[22:58]

to the teachings, thinking that's what eternity is, but eternity still flows. Yeah, well, I think that's... When I read the Cleary's lines, it felt... I mean, what you say is certainly true of the path, and it could be that this is indicated by those lines, but I always thought, and maybe you can hear from some other people too, I always thought he was saying that you understand the approaches and you penetrate the meaning, and then... But even beyond that, even beyond what you understand and what you penetrate, true eternity is still flowing beyond what you know, beyond what you see. Maybe that's what you said, I don't know, more or less. I had the idea that there was a mistaking, but even though the basis is reached, you had your Kensho experience, I think that's what reality is, but beyond that... It's beyond that, yeah, I think so. Not that. Right, it's beyond that. Even though you penetrate

[24:00]

all of these approaches, the sudden and the gradual and all that, it's way beyond that, I think so. So in a way, my translation isn't so different from that, it's just a little bit different using the metaphor a little bit differently, but it's the same basic meaning. But at the very limit of the schools and approaches, endless reality flows. And you know, just as a sort of experiential footnote to this, in my experience, when I've met people in different traditions who, to me, were truly awakened people, they always seemed to hold the tradition that they followed quite lightly in the sense that they didn't seem to be... I mean, they might be conservative or liberal or whatever, but you had the impression that

[25:02]

somehow their understanding transcended the tradition itself. You know what I mean? And that people whose understanding was completely wrapped up in the tradition itself, and it's a subtle point here, seemed to me to have realized that it isn't in the approach and it isn't in the... What other word does he use? Basis. It isn't in the basis and it isn't in the approach. You must deal with the basis and the approach, you know, and penetrate it and understand it. But it's beyond that. And to realize that it's beyond that is to, for my money anyway, the people who I've met who have had that sense of, you know, very awakened people. You know, they remind me of the part where it says the meaning is not in the words. They say the meaning is not

[26:03]

in the approach, but it responds to the approach. That's further. We passed that one a while ago, right? The meaning is not in the words. I see a parallel. Yeah, right. Yeah. Once you've comprehended it, it becomes a concept, right? And once you're aware that it's a concept, you also have to be aware that it still flows. That's what it means to me. Yeah. Yeah, same thing from another angle, right? Yeah. So, yeah, the appreciation that our concepts are concepts. And, I think what usually happens is we mistake our concepts for identity, right? This is not a concept. This is me. You don't like that idea? It's me you don't like.

[27:06]

See? That's where all the trouble starts. It ends. I'm frustrated because you're always thinking that there's a concept beyond that one. Yeah, right. So we're always looking for another concept that's an improved concept over our other concepts, like enlightenment, you know, which is a great concept. But it's another concept. Like it says, you know, it says beyond delusion and enlightenment, which are concepts. Yeah. Think about it, you know. It's an astonishing thing that the teaching of our school is beyond enlightenment. Enlightenment. People be enlightened. We're not impressed, right? It's not that impressive to be enlightened. The dual mirror, that's much more impressive. It's beyond. Think about that. Well, they don't say they're enlightened, but they are.

[28:10]

If they think of enlightenment, then we're not impressed, don't you think? Even if they don't say so, maybe they hint at it or something. They hint at it. We're very modest. Right. Very modest. No, we're modest in our tremendous arrogance, right? We're beyond enlightenment. Ordinariness is beyond enlightenment, so we're very modest and arrogant at the same time. Oh, you know, she's enlightened. Big deal. Can she cut carrots? Can she bake bread, right? Exactly. Yeah. That's on the dust jacket of Zen Mind Beginner's Mind or something, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

[29:11]

Well, but, you know, one of my favorite quotes of Suzuki Roshi were he said, Soto Zen in three words. Do you know this? We've heard this before. Soto Zen in three words. Not necessarily so. Think about that one. That's good, huh? Not necessarily so. It ain't necessarily so. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. It's always beyond whatever concept or experience that we have. It's always... So, practically speaking, it means that, you know, you know your experience is your experience, right? Whatever it is, good or bad. And you say, oh, that's the experience I'm having or I have had.

[30:15]

And then you know that that's a limited experience. And there's a great world beyond that. And you know that all the time. So, whatever it is that comes up, it isn't necessarily so, right? Yeah. This is probably a particular frame of mind which, you know, it's very it's kind of confusing for me as I think about it. In that there's this wonderful dual mirror. there's some desire to understand this. Yeah. And perhaps even a strong desire. And perhaps it's necessary to have a terribly strong desire to understand or to penetrate into this meaning. But and, you know, we follow the rules and the approaches and so forth with great enthusiasm

[31:17]

and 100% effort. But somewhere in there at some point maybe a moment we know that this that there's actually something much more than this following the approach. So we kind of look at it's kind of detailed but detached. It's involved but detached. That's the thing that always has gotten interesting to me. What kind of frame of mind is this that's able to be so involved yet detached at the same time? Yeah. That's it. You're completely involved but not stuck to something. Like making mistakes is wonderful just don't be stubborn. In other words, just don't be stuck anywhere. When you were talking I was thinking where does that desire to understand the dual mirror come from? And I thought to myself well it comes from

[32:17]

the dual mirror. The dual mirror is activating itself. So even though our desire to become enlightened appears perhaps as an erotic and twisted desire because it gets filtered through our stuff as we keep practicing it gets purified and we see that it's not our personal desire but it's the desire it's enlightenment itself. You're enlightened and seeking enlightenment. And then I thought of that wonderful picture that you often see of the sage asleep on the tiger. You know, that kind of that's the effort of a seasoned practitioner sleeping on the tiger. So

[33:18]

can we go on and try see if we can get a couple more lines in here. So then outwardly still while inwardly moving like a tethered colt a trapped rat. So this going back to what Martin said these lines really fit with Martin's approach because these lines would then describe the person who is very good at the approach and the basis. They reach the approach and the basis. In other words they've practiced the school and they've met the standards. So outwardly still but inwardly they're not at rest. Externally calm inwardly shaking

[34:18]

like a tethered charger or a hiding rat. That's Popal. And Master Sheng Yen is genuine with still body but racing mind like a tethered horse or a mouse frozen by fright. So that gives you the idea of where so a person really looks good on the outside and they're very still. This is somebody who's an excellent Zen student. I don't like that. So outwardly outwardly still they look really good like a horse who's tied down. The horse is totally motionless. But you think wow what a very still horse but the horse is tied down. It can't move, right? And a mouse that's so terrified Sheng Yen has it right I think that really makes a lot of sense.

[35:19]

The mouse is so scared it's totally still but it's not still out of a great calmness it's still out of a terror. And you see that like in religious that's one of the particular lunacies of religious types heavily pressing on the religion to forestall tremendous inner terror. Yeah, something like that. Polishing the mirror, yeah. Not free inside. Making that kind of effort to be perfect uptight about it not free inside. So that's how they are such people are inwardly still while outwardly moving like a like a tethered cold and a mouse frozen with fear. The word could be mouse or rat. The ancient saints

[36:20]

pitied them and bestowed upon them the teaching. So it's interesting I pity is maybe not the right word you know this is a very sweet line I think when you look at it carefully because it's like this is the situation with people who are making big efforts to practice they may be very still on the outside but on the inside full of fear and the ancients saw this and they were saddened by it is the idea they had great sympathy and sorrow over the situation. And so out of their sorrow and their kindness they manifested the Buddha Dharma

[37:21]

as a gift so that's what it says they gave the and I think it might mean I think the words actually might mean the Dhanaparamita so the ancient sages were sad about this and manifested the Dharma as the perfect gift. So it's very sweet you know the idea that so there's a kind of I find in these lines a kind of sense of like I was saying last week in the Dharma talk when we were you know I had added that line restored it from the old echo where it says our kind original teacher Shakyamuni Buddha it's like that you know our kind the teachers and the echo the old echoes used to say we're chanting these sutras and offering these offerings to try to repay the kindness of our teachers who saw the struggles that we were having and out of sympathy for us and sadness

[38:22]

at our trials manifested their very life as the Dharma so that we could practice and help and would help us. How do you mean what do you mean how do you mean grace what does that mean? I know the sutras by heart there's no way I can break through and then suddenly the ancient saints pity me and they bestow yes yes yes there's nothing I can actually do that's going to make that difference yeah yeah right because all because it's certainly true that all of our the Harris-Bress deviation that gets us out of tune comes with our our attaching to our conceptualizations and our self-centeredness and our doingness and the only way

[39:23]

that we can be attuned is to let go right which is a kind of a grace which is like saying the Buddha came in and fixed me you know yeah I can't help but it's a terrific feeling coming from being being impressed with our emotional and sitting and everybody found out we didn't know anything and admired us so much because of our diligence at practicing and was so sorry for us because we didn't know anything yeah that he took pity on us and taught us he came back and was doing fine yeah yeah yeah yeah he came back again and again yeah yeah do you know that do you know that his reincarnation has been identified and is living at Yvonne's house I didn't know that or is soon going to show up yeah true because Kunga remember Kunga Kunga's been living

[40:24]

at Yvonne's house you know for I don't know months or years or something this is a lama who used to come here all the time and every year he would come and teach us and we had a really strong dharma relationship with him and he had an attendant named Kunga and when he died Kunga started devoting himself to finding and taking care of the reincarnation of the lama which now has been discovered and Kunga's living down the road and I guess the little boy is coming the little boy yeah two, three years old or one or two or something he's going to reside here for a while so yeah we have to go visit him yeah just don't make him cut your lawn cut your lawn yeah Tarak line

[41:45]

oh I see yeah yeah that's right you're right you're right then it would be better if it's outflows it would make more sense wouldn't it yeah it would make more sense yeah defiled outflow yeah because then the whole thing from the part about but even though the basis is reached and the approach comprehended instead of true eternity still flows even though the basis is reached and the approach comprehended there are still defiled outflows outwardly still while they're inwardly moving then it doesn't make inwardly moving would be the outflows in other words yeah yeah so that's good probably I mean clearly the and this is often the case in Chinese there's a lot of ambiguity and so no doubt it admits of both interpretations and then when you translate it into English you sort of choose one but like poetry you know there's poetry always has that kind of ambiguity but both that's what is enriching right about it is that yeah you could look at it

[42:53]

that way and you could also look at it that way and the words support both meanings but when you translate from another language you choose a meaning so but that does make more sense you're right I think yeah and there's a story that I don't know which way it would support but one of my senior geography teachers I can't remember one said that he told some story about he was young and he asked his teacher I guess while he was sitting he heard the temple bell and birds singing at the same or drops dripping off the roof at the same time he was trying to distinguish whether they were different sounds or the same sound and he asked the teacher what the phrase was these two sounds mean and the teacher said true eternity still flows that's nice

[43:53]

huh huh of course by the logic of by the logic of the five ranks themselves when you say true eternity still flows and still there are defiled outflows those two things are different right so it's even richer okay so let's see if we can go on a little bit so according to their delusions they called black as white uh

[44:55]

in their topsy-turvy state people take black for white presumably that's the tenet cult of the top rank yeah that's the people who are uh still confused right right uh following their upside-down ways they took black for white and it seems like pretty clear that the characters in chinese do mean turning around upside-down turning something upside-down so people turn things upside-down so in clary's translation it looks like it looks like it's the sages right i always thought that way maybe not i always thought clary was indicating that it was the sages who uh taught people according to their delusions and if they were deluded one way they told them black was white or white was black

[45:56]

but actually the words don't really it could be even these words of clary could be the other way right it could be that people themselves being confused and upside-down think of black as white they could refer to people or it could refer to the sages but yeah i guess it makes more sense if it's the people themselves people are upside-down and so they think that black is white they see and in a way i often feel that way when you look at the world you know people do the opposite of what would be you know people want peace so they go to war erroneous imagination cease the acquiescent mind realizes itself clary says and master sheng yan says when a thinking disappears

[46:58]

or when inverted thinking disappears they realize mind of their own accord and will powell says but when their topsy-turvy thinking is destroyed the acquiescent mind is self acknowledged and i looked at this a long time and it's very very beautiful notion it seems to me this idea that people's minds are upside down they take black for white but when the conceptions of the upside down mind fall away just like something falling down you know when the conceptions of the upside because the upside down mind is producing these conceptions thinking black is white and so on when the conceptions of the upside down mind are allowed to just fall away the accepting

[47:58]

heart naturally forgives itself because the chinese words could mind and heart of course is the same word and forgives acknowledges allows permits those are all different ways to translate that verb in chinese clearly [...] is the famous wonderful poet but clearly the translator translates it as realizes itself but really it means more like acknowledges itself or permits itself or allows itself so this seems to me to be such a wonderful and important notion that we allow ourselves we forgive ourselves like i was talking again in the darwin talk the story about the lakota

[48:59]

man forgiving himself and everything forgiving the world so i'm more and i'm thinking now a lot about this idea of forgiveness and permission you know we have this word nowadays after so many years of reagan and bush and the religious right and so on is a bad word now to be permissive is a bad word permissive this is very bad but actually permissive is to me is a good word to permit to allow to give something it's place right without um unconditional permission is what's meant here um so one doesn't have to force this or pile up a lot of dharma points you know in order to achieve enlightenment but rather

[50:01]

one has to allow the conceptions of the upside down mind to simply fall away in which case the accepting mind will forgive itself and permit itself and allow itself just to be what it really is which is identical with the jewel mirror itself um but when the conceptions of the upside down mind fall away uh and i there's several choices here but let's just pick one the accepting heart naturally forgives itself or you could say the accepting heart naturally acknowledges itself self acknowledgment self forgiveness I mean it's a huge thing you know in the dharma and people want

[51:01]

someone to acknowledge them or forgive them but this can never be you know the only one person in the world can acknowledge us and that's our self and uh you know our teacher or our Dharma friend can help us to come to that but nobody else you know we can't rely on somebody else to acknowledge us or accept us it has to come from this is deeply and at that time it's not a psychological acceptance you know but there's that too and certainly along with if there's a true acknowledgement of the heart beyond the self there's a psychological acceptance as well but this is a beyond you know a psychological acceptance this is an acceptance beyond ourselves deeply because it involves the acceptance of the world as well as our self so all we

[52:01]

have to do then is to like we were saying earlier to not to mistake the conceptions that our mind will produce being a mind for identity but to understand our conceptions as our conceptions and allow them to fall away as they will in which case our awakening dawns you know of itself and we are self acknowledging you know in the widest possible sense not only ourselves as people and individuals but ourselves as as the whole world so that's beautiful I think I really like I really find that very sweet any discussions about this so in

[53:19]

this case um all teaching of buddhism then is not something that to learn and you know I'm a buddhist I know about this and I know about that but rather it is a kind of aikido move working with our conceptions to allow us to disentangle ourselves from our conception so buddhism is really not something extra in our lives it's just the antidote to the way we're living our lives to allow us something to allow us to unplug ourselves from our wrestling and just allow our life to arise and pass away moment after moment in this kind of permissiveness

[54:19]

so that's a nice way to look at it I think and the teachings are antidotes they're not themselves assertions of a view as much as they are anti-view you know complement view to our own toxic view which is upside down so that teaching writes us doesn't give us something extra it's the same stuff but just set right it's a nice resolution of the whole binarism of insight and compassion too I don't really have it all down but it seems like you know you've got sort of magistris or you know kind of perception and keen insight and compassion which to me have very different flavors just in my experience but if since you can translate the line kind of both ways

[55:20]

the acquiescent mind realizes itself or the acquiescent mind forgives itself that's kind of a cool way of bringing those flavors together yeah and then even the word mind can also be translated as heart yeah okay um outwardly still and we did that um all right if you want to conform to the ancient way you please observe the ancients of former times when about to fulfill the way of buddhahood

[56:21]

one gaze at a tree for ten eons if you want to conform to the ancient way please observe the ancients of former times when about to fulfill the way of buddhahood one gaze at a tree for ten eons maybe in the next part too like a tiger leaving part of its prey a horse with a white left hind leg which has always been strange uh do you notice that it's really strange um if you wish to conform with ancient tracks please consider the ancients the buddha on the verge of accomplishing the way spent ten kalpas beneath the tree of contemplation like the tiger which leaves some remains of its prey and like the charger whose left hind leg

[57:27]

has whitened and this one says uh this one says uh if you want to merge with the ancient track like the racetrack then contemplate the ancients at the completion of the buddha path ten kalpas of contemplation will be established pretty different like a tiger and then then uh he puts the tiger's lame foot in the shoeless horse in the next this is master shen yin he says uh like he puts those phrases in with the next part not with the previous part see what i mean he doesn't think that the tiger's lame foot and the horses whatever

[58:28]

refer refer to the buddha of the ten kalpas he thinks it refers to the next section i don't know uh bill powell uh says in his footnote to those that yanagita sezon who's like the greatest zen scholar that ever lived you know who's still alive doesn't know what those lines actually mean paul's footnote says so that's that should encourage us you know to make up our own uh where does he say yes he says exactly here um yeah he said he says in popular lore the tiger is this is really strange the popular lore the tiger is noted for eating all of its prey but the ears well they don't like to see the face is that right yeah tigers are all uh cats tigers specifically but you don't mind being hard

[59:38]

but it goes on uh the significance of this as well as of the white and left hind leg of a charger is not entirely clear but yanagita suggests that they are indicative of venerability and power the tiger as the master of mountain beasts and a spirited horse as one who's white whose hind leg has whitened with age so that's what yanagita says and that way he's applying so he's saying that the the tigers uh whatever it is about the tiger and whatever it is about the horse are these are positive qualities just like this buddha who gave it a tree for ten eons and and uh but master shenyan who see shenyan is working from the uh well i don't actually know i forget now which text see it's it's the version that we chant of course is a english

[60:52]

translation of a japanese translation of the chinese right because the poem was really originally written in chinese and shenyan is working from the chinese and his tradition of interpretation is from the chinese without going through the japanese so he has a little bit different so in a way uh you could say well his interpretation wouldn't be the same as ours because we go through the japanese in our own tradition of interpretation but on the other hand you could say his interpretation may be more accurate because he's coming from the original language without going through this other route very used a different text than changing no i think clary translated from the chinese too but to tell you the truth i'm not entirely sure but my because clary definitely uh does chinese i think clary does chinese and then i mean clary i think reads everything so i think he does chinese and then he does japanese as a check you know to what the interpretation is but i think he basically works from the chinese text yeah jim and then martha to go back to the horse and the tiger i

[62:00]

started just being seen simply as um an omen or some a rare event something you wouldn't expect it's out of the norm it's like an auspicious event i mean if you were to see a horse in the field and just literally just said it was brown like a sign or something yeah yeah could be could be so the buddha's sitting there for 10 eons it's like a kind of an omen or good sign only the left hind leg of the horse was left after the time this is getting better and better martha what can you add to this um i i took a just an afternoon seminar on this with time oh did you and uh

[63:06]

he talked about this particular passage as referring to the bodhisattva path of the uh rather than that of um you know so the beginning of soto zen here in this thing the way he talked about it was that uh that the tiger is incomplete and that actually there's some translation where the horse is a hobbled horse yes one bad leg and then in that way it's it's the bodhisattva path that forego perfection yes stay imperfect in order to be in the world yes yes yes well that's what i think that's what i that's where i was coming in translating i what i the way i translated it is that uh i translated if you aim to walk the tracks of the ancients i invite you to contemplate what the ancients did and then what they did was um when on the verge of uh when on the verge of becoming the buddha way one contemplated a tree

[64:13]

for 10 kalpas which is uh one of the buddhas in the avatamsaka sutra that's a reference there i couldn't uh look it up i didn't i'll try to look it up later and see what that'd be interesting to look up the story of that buddha who gazed at a tree for 10 kalpas just about to attain buddhahood he apparently didn't attain buddhahood instead he meditated for 10 kalpas like a lame tiger like an old horse because one of the ideas of the white left hind leg is that uh it's a sign of a old animal an old horse has a white left leg or how or could be hobbled but i think in either case the idea is something like i agree something imperfect not entirely uh strong and perfect but damaged wounded in some way so the bodhisattva uh if you want to practice like and this sort of goes in line with the five ranks and they're in there and the five ranks teaching

[65:18]

about the primacy in a way of delusion itself you know delusion itself as the path right in the last of the ranks delusion as the path you know returning to the marketplace that sort of thing ordinariness mistakes you know as being the path so this is kind of like that that that uh if you want to practice the way of the ancients uh watch what the ancients did one of them just about to attain buddhahood just kept sitting and kept um in other words didn't attain buddhahood but kept practicing and working on it remained imperfect just like an imperfect tiger and an imperfect horse it's a tiger in a way it's not first renunciate though it's worked so hard to get right well that's if you follow that interpretation that one interpretation is you know that this legend about it leaves over the years but it could mean

[66:18]

that it's a tiger who's lame or damaged or wounded the word in chinese does seem to mean wounded or damaged yeah defective you know that's the translation i remember too it's a tiger with tattered ears you know yeah so giving the idea of anyway both animals being defective or somehow imperfect old or yeah whatever yeah so we have to look up that story and see if we can learn more by finding the reference of the avatamska sutra but it also another whole other dimension to it if you take the first two lines in and of themselves if you want to walk in the tracks of the ancients contemplate what the ancients did might be a

[67:20]

advice to study the teachings right because the same word where it says contemplate the ancients is the same word in the next line where it says contemplated a tree for 10 kalpas oh yeah see so the same word which means like means that contemplation is like vipassana so the same word is used to refer to contemplate the ancients contemplate the tree it's the same character so it could be that they're saying the ancients contemplated the tree for 10 eons rather than attaining buddhahood the ancients studied you know the tree contemplated the tree for 10 years we should contemplate the ancients with that same spirit so maybe it could be an enjoinder to study the teachings even though there's all this about the jewel mirror and it's pristine perfection

[68:31]

apart from any teachings and especially these lines would especially make sense translated that understood that way when they follow just on the heels of the previous lines which basically tell us that there is no teaching you know there's only the falling away of delusion right emphasizing that the teaching is just simply a uh an antidote to our mind which then could lead us to think that well then we can ignore the teachings of the ancients now it's saying that's true but still if you want to be like the ancients you should contemplate the ancients teachings and be like them and study you know endlessly the way they studied even though you are already buddha you don't enter the condition of buddhahood you remain imperfect and human studying the teachings can you see what i mean yeah so that's another it's

[69:33]

sort of another uh look at it when it says uh if you want to conform please observe the ancients and so it says one goes to the tree companions there's another one likened to a tiger and a horse or if you want to conform to the ancient way please observe it says specifically ancients and it says so is that are these three different ways of attaining buddhahood like a tiger well it could be the thing is in chinese there is no plurals so you don't know whether it probably like the other translators say uh if you want to conform if you want to walk literally it means the tracks the path like literally you see that you see these tracks and you want to walk in those tracks if you want to walk in those tracks and go in that direction the direction that the the ancients or it could be the ancient tracks it could be or it could mean the ancient one or the ancient ones you don't know it could

[70:38]

be all those things but i mean i see what you're saying it could be that uh yeah follow the ancients there's one ancient that gazed at a tree for 10 eons another one that was like a lame tiger and another one that was like an old horse okay well there's just um one thing about the tiger and part of the phrase is that something's left behind you know like the tiger didn't completely uh eat the whole thing and disappear there's something left there's something left to do and yeah complete yeah and uh and the horse with the white left hand like it could be a horse but boy a horse with a white left hand like it's something really to look at you know it catches your eye you're attracted to it this horse with the white that's a particular part thing you know yeah yeah it's like the kinds of they're leaving something for you to grasp onto so like a lotus sutra in the various vehicles you can kind of jump on yeah it could be like the uh little bit of imperfection like maybe the horse is all

[71:42]

golden colored except for this one place where it has a white leg which is a little imperfection and the tiger eats the whole thing but leaves a little bit behind so there's a little something left over could be like that you know so uh and i but i feel like that's where where is it there's a line in Dogan as well where he says uh so what does he say in Genjo Koin he says it's not coming to mind but did to the effect that um yeah if you think that if you think that you've completed it it's not so it's when you realize it's not complete that enlightenment is present yeah how does that go anybody remember that no not that one anyway that's what it more or less it says when you think that that the dorm is already complete you know that there's something

[72:45]

lacking when you are aware that there's something lacking that's when the dorm is already complete so this way the tiger leaving part of its prey and the horse with the wide left hand leg might might be something a little bit lacking it's similar to what you similar to what you said only instead of seeing it as damaged wounded in some way it's seeing it as being a little bit something left remaining well so this is gazing at a tree for 10 000 yens also be lacking when you're just about ready to attain buddhahood yeah yeah you didn't do it you don't attain buddhahood you gaze at the tree instead you keep working on what ten kalpas worth you know well it talks about the bodhisattva as one who's about to fulfill the way of buddhahood and then decides yeah i sit more yeah and go out in the world with imperfections right right other people hear the teachings and yeah you know it seems like such a nice description of how yeah no i agree

[73:47]

yeah yeah it seems like that's really is our way you know to give warning though i mean it says um if you want to conform to the ancient way please observe these cautions don't start looking at trees don't leave your your prey and look at the damaged horse you know i don't understand and maybe it's because i don't understand what attaining buddhahood is i don't understand the difference i don't understand what that is as opposed to looking at a tree what's the difference between attaining buddhahood and and looking at the tree i kind of thought that that was kind of like at the end of this you know that was like the culmination of this path of buddhahood was the decision to contemplate the tree i don't know and and that

[74:47]

this mysterious tiger and horse thing um it seems like you don't know why if you see someone sitting there contemplating a tree they have some some purpose or some motivation for this just like the tiger would know why it leaves part of its prey or i don't know about the horse but that there's some mysterious thing that that someone is moved to do and looking at it from the outside you you don't know why they've done it and maybe that has something to do with the way these ancient sages behaved it seems kind of they do these wild unusual things and and if you contemplate these things something might and the only other thing that i don't know if this has anything to do with it but i've been noticing lately how it's people's imperfections and the things that make them vulnerable open me to them or make them accessible to me as opposed to someone

[75:51]

who's really clearly got it all together who i feel kind of alienated from so it has to do something about with these broken people i can identify with or i can it kind of makes me um like yeah i mean i think that speaks to martha's point yeah yeah right no i i agree and i think that i often say you know uh i think our path uh is a very human path in the sense that you that you are speaking up here you know but what is it what is the buddhahood you're talking about that you didn't attain well as i read this line here um this is an ancient sage who's mentioned in the avatamsaka sutra he's about to uh enter this magical state of buddhahood but he doesn't do it instead he sits down and continues to meditate continues to work on it

[76:59]

so there's something left he chooses uh and this is again pretty much martha's interpretation and quoting taiyan he chooses to not enter buddhahood so and that's yes you reference the lotus sutra it's very much like the point of lotus sutra where the buddha in the lotus sutra comes and says uh you know you thought that i had entered nirvana i become a buddha and but and entered nirvana but uh actually i only did that for show so in reality i'm still here i've never i've never gone i'm still here with sentient beings which is to say there's still a drop of imperfection which is the compassion that makes me constantly be with you just like the person who has some vulnerability or some uh some some vulnerability or brokenness that that enables you to reach them and them to reach you

[78:09]

if they were perfect then they were unread they're unreachable so i think that's what so that buddhahood they're talking about is that perfection yeah it's a kind of a perfection that that that uh from the standpoint of the five ranks is that perfection is limited you know the perfection in the five ranks might be the fourth rank or something the one that's all white and there's nothing there there's no there's no contact there's no turning of the dharma wheel it's perfection and and uh you know one should instead of that makes one's mistakes wholeheartedly anyway yes it seems to me that this is all about accepting our ordinariness you know this other translation it says because there is a defect they seek the jewel bench

[79:14]

and the priceless falter because you are astonished when you realize you know that you that you have imperfections also you know that and that in accepting the ordinariness that's you know that's the whole point yeah i forgot to read this one yeah it reminds me of a i think a dharma talk that revved up once where he i think he was talking about uncle me and the rabbit one of those koans and one of the things that uh he said went something like this and accepting our no our ordinariness we protect our nobility and that idea has just kind of come up over and over throughout this yeah mm-hmm yeah that um i mean that's the seems to me the secret of enlightenment is accepting the fact that that we're ordinary well let me read this just to conclude i think we're about finished for tonight

[80:19]

but i'll just read uh remember shen yin put the tigers and the horse with the next verse instead of with the previous verse so he didn't have those words referring to the ten kalpas tree looking person so his in his uh his verse goes like a tiger's lame foot like a shoeless horse because there is a defect they seek the jeweled bench and the priceless halter because you are astonished you realize you were like the brown or white ox so it's quite different i don't know quite where he gets yeah where he's yeah it doesn't seem like it's um i'll have to study up on how he kind of got all of that out of the text because it doesn't sound too it sounds a little bit liberal doesn't it i don't know i got it i thought it was good

[81:25]

yeah no but i mean i i it doesn't look like he's sticking close to the actual characters well but i don't know i'll look at something did you pedestals and find clothing oh oh i'm sorry you're right no that's because yeah i jumped ahead that's why right excuse me yeah yeah it only goes yeah because we're only up to we're only up to the uh yeah yeah we're only up to the target with the shoe okay well let's you see we're getting uh punchy so let's let's stop and next week uh so we're really pretty much right on the beam here right we could easily finish next week the rest of it right we're going pretty good so we'll finish it we'll do it so now you have it so keep it well

[82:44]

them you know where they are the meaning is not in the words if you're excited it becomes a bit long perspective hesitation or touching are both wrong for it is like a massifier just to depict it in literary form is validated to defilement right just at midnight it doesn't appear i don't want to act as a guide for being confused moves all paints not fabricated it is not without speech it is like facing a dual mirror for the babe in the world in five aspects complete it does not go over uh ultimately it does not preempt anything because the speech is not yet correct it is

[83:52]

like the six lines of the double slit hexagram the relative and absolute integrate all that they make three the complete transformation makes five it is like the taste of a five-figure like the diamonds on the gold slightly included within the true inquiry and response come up communing with the source of community with the process it includes integration and includes the road is auspicious to not violate it naturally real yet inconceivable it is not within the province of illusion or enlightenment causal efficient time and season simply it shines bright and its fineness it fits into spacelessness and its greatness utterly beyond location as best deviation will fail to accord with the proper attunement now there are sudden and gradual inclinations with which our second basic approaches basic approaches are distinguished and there are diagonals but even though the basis is

[84:58]

reached in the approach to apprehended true eternity still abhors however they still are like a tether called the fact that if you want to conform to the ancient way of course but when the air winds me head on what does this do with the power still when the wooden man begins to sing

[85:59]

of consideration we offer the merit of our study and chanting of the jewel mirror samadhi for the enlightenment of all be is

[87:08]

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