Hakuin’s Critique of Soto versus Rinzai

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Sesshin Day 4

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Traditionally, the head student for the practice period gives one talk during the sasheen. So this is my turn. To those people who have come in who are not in the sasheen, hi. I don't know, maybe it feels like you're entering something that's kind of big, something going on. But part of Sashin is starting over and over again. So we're just starting over again this period. So you can join us. And for those of you who have never sat at Sashin, or if you've only sat one day, and it never sat longer. I might encourage you to give it a try sometime.

[01:01]

When people ask you where you're going and what you're doing, you have to think about how to explain that to them. You tell them you're going to a spend five days looking at the wall. I'm with a bunch of other people. It'll be interesting to see their response. For the last three days, Mel has been talking about the mindfulness of breathing Sutra and the Four Foundations of Mindfulness Sutra, looking at breathing every way imaginable in great detail. So I would like to be able to kind of continue along that path, but I'm not going to. I'm going to take a diversion for a day and go off in another direction, but of course it's related.

[02:24]

But it would be breaking, for those who are in Cisgene, it would be breaking the continuity a bit. But we can come back to it tomorrow. I want to read you a provocative quote from Zen Master Hakuin, who is a Rinzai Zen teacher, and he lived about the time of Bach, about the same exact era as Bach did. And while Bach was creating a kind of brilliant gift to us during that era in the West, Hakun was doing the same thing in the East. And as most of you know, Zen nowadays has come down to be basically two different schools, Soto and Rinzai.

[03:26]

In the Rinzai school, important practices to use koans, to work on a koan, a kind of riddle that you can't solve using your normal logical way of thinking or looking at the world. And to focus all your attention on this koan until you can break through your usual conditioned and dualistic way of seeing things. In the Soto school, our school, our approach is more to see that same kind of koan, but to see it in our everyday life, and to see all of our activities as having that potential to find out what we're actually doing in everything that we do. And with all religions there's always been a certain amount of petty bickering back and forth between schools. sometimes it's not so petty.

[04:29]

But I find it always interesting anyway. I think it's just interesting because it highlights the character, our character, in terms of being critical and also it highlights the different characters of the schools. This is all religions but particularly for our purposes within Zen. So here's a statement that Hakuin made. Now he's referring to the Soto school. They foolishly take the dead teachings of no thought and no mind, where the mind is like dead ashes, with wisdom obliterated, and make these into the essential doctrines of Zen. They practice silent, dead sitting. as though they were incense burners in some old mausoleum. They sit in meditation for one minute and fall asleep for a hundred.

[05:38]

And during the little bit of meditation that they manage, to accomplish, their minds are beset by countless delusions. As soon as they set their eyes, grit their teeth, clench their fists, adjust their posture, and start to sit, 10,000 evil circumstances begin to race about in their minds. You gonna sit there and take that? Well, Grace is right. He did try it. And it didn't work for him. And that's why he's putting us down. He tried it and got nowhere. And then when he started working with a con, he, because of his personality and the conditions and so forth, was able to do quite well.

[06:56]

So I was thinking that if people asked you, well, how was this sashin, or how was your week? You could say, oh, it was just like being an incense burner in an old mausoleum. Oh, that's nice. OK, so now I'd like to, in terms of, I think we should answer Hakuin. I think he deserves some consideration and an answer. and to meet his points, because although it's humorous in a certain extent, also there are points there that hit the mark. There are certain things that he's pointing out that, I have to admit, do occur. And so I'd like to move over now to the founder of the Soto school, who is Deng Shan. And Deng Shan

[08:12]

is the main character in the story or the dialogue that we've been using for the practice period. And I've mentioned several times in the last few weeks, and we'll be using again during the Shosan Ceremony, and during the Shuso Ceremony, and also the Shosan Ceremony, but the Shuso Ceremony on Tuesday. And In this dialogue with Dungshan, he has a moment of realization where he looks down into a stream as he's walking by, sees his reflection, and has this breakthrough. And he creates this poem, which is a famous poem. And I'll read it again to you. It says, earnestly avoid seeking without lest it recede far from you. Today I am walking alone, yet everywhere I meet Him.

[09:23]

He is now no other than myself, but I am not now Him. It must be understood in this way in order to merge with suchness." Interestingly, so this is kind of like the poem that we're working with for the practice period. And I just got, I got a renewed raksu recently. An old friend sewed it for me. Actually, Catherine Abel. And Mel gave me a new backing on it. He puts a poem on the back. So he just gave this to me a couple days ago. And interestingly enough, this poem is a combination of Mel's and Suzuki Roshi's interpretation of the poem that I just read. And this, I don't have to put, you know, this is easy notes.

[10:28]

Don't view the world or yourself as an object. You, seen as an object, will lead you astray. Now as I walk alone, Wherever I turn, I meet myself. He is just me. I am not he. When this is understood, you have your own true way. It's a little more accessible. So what I want to look at in that poem is the first line, which is very important, is, earnestly avoid seeking without, lest it receive far from you. And this is really the core of a sasheen, of sitting practice, and particularly a long, extended sitting practice. During a sasheen, we can turn our attention inward.

[11:34]

We're fortunate. I mean, we set it up like this and it's a great opportunity. We set it up so that everything is taken care of. You're fed. The time is kept for you. You don't have to worry about time. You don't have to worry about food. The serving is taken care of. The cleaning is taken care of. And each person has a particular job that they do. But other than that, there's really nothing to do except just to sit. And that's all you need to do. So that it gives us a chance to turn our attention inwards. And also during Sashin, there's actually a lot of drama that occurs, if you haven't noticed. Because what we're doing is so simple, And so, pared down, compared to our usual life, everything becomes magnified. The little things become magnified.

[12:38]

Little things that in our usual life wouldn't seem like much become bigger. So, you know, it's kind of easy to become fascinated with the dramas of Sashim. Somebody's late coming in, or somebody drops their spoon on the floor. Somebody's upset, or somebody spills something. The schedule gets off a little bit or the serving gets a little turned around. And there's really no need to pay any attention to that. All we need to do is just to sit and to turn our attention inward. We don't need to keep looking out there for what's happening. During our usual life that would be, if we went around like that, that would be inappropriate if we did it to this extent that we do during Sashin. But during Sashin it's appropriate to do that.

[13:40]

And it doesn't mean that we're unfriendly or that we're cold. It's just a shifting of attention. So Haklund acknowledges that we are good at sitting. He acknowledges that we're good at sort of sitting silently. He gives us that much. So, so far there's no problem with Haklund. Just to continue with this idea of turning our light inward, though, because this is, in silent, in still sitting, in silent sitting, this is maybe the most important thing, to keep turning our attention inward, backward.

[14:52]

And in Dogon, in the Fukon Zazengi, which is the, like Dogon's introduction to Zazen, his primer for Zazen, It says, cease from practice based on intellectual understanding, pursuing words and following after speech, and turn your light inward and learn the backward step that turns your light inward to illuminate yourself. So sitting is no other than just taking this backward step. And Dogen also says, and this is an interesting point, he says, cease all the movements of the conscious mind, engaging of all thoughts and views.

[16:12]

So this is a very specific kind of instruction. This is unequivocal. He says, cease all the movements of the conscious mind. And we like to say, well, just let your thoughts come and go. Don't try to control them. So it's true that we let our thoughts come and go, we don't try to control them, but there still is required some kind of effort. Concentration requires some effort. And so what's this ceasing? What is this ceasing? Do we just say, don't, don't think? Some of the other translations for that phrase are stop, halt, control. I have like a Zen Center study book with like six different versions of the Fukasa Zen Gia.

[17:16]

Different translators use those different words. Cease, cease the movements of your conscious mind, halt, stop. And one person says relax. It's interesting. And talking about it with Mel, we thought that actually letting go is a better way to look at that. Let go of the movements of your conscious mind, engaging all thoughts and views. So, you know, taking this backward step involves some effort and involves letting go. And this letting go quality, this activity of letting go is essential.

[19:10]

It's so essential that when I got a little fortune on my cookie yesterday, we all got little fortunes with our tea treats, mine said, let go. So I dropped the cup and it fell. And this seems to be the hardest thing, you know, when we're sitting or in our usual life, when our mind is just spinning around, going, going, going. It sounds easy to say, just let go, just relax. But it's very hard to do. So during Sashin we have this opportunity, we have this chance to let go over and over and over again and then we can do it for a little bit and then you know this enormous energy and momentum of all of our anxieties, desires and so forth come back in.

[20:12]

Shake us, grab us and then Okay, I'll let go and then come back to our breathing in our bodies and let go of the thinking and then comes back again. So this letting go during Sachine specifically of our thoughts and letting go of the kind of pursuit of thought. But then of course in our life too, this quality of letting go. is easy to talk about, but the hardest thing to do. One of my favorite teachers other than Mel is a Master Sheng Yen, a Chinese Zen teacher who is based in New York and Taiwan. And he does not talk about his realization or enlightenment experiences at all except one that I've heard except one occasion where he was in a monastery he was a monk in a monastery in Taiwan and he was just there was a you know experienced kindly older monk that was there and Master Sheng Yen was just complaining to him for hours about

[21:36]

how he just felt like the teaching in that particular monastery wasn't really being done well, that there was all kinds of problems in the way that they were doing things, and it was just very frustrating to him. He just thought they were on the wrong track. And he kept, he went on for hours, and the other monk just very patiently and very quietly listened to him and didn't say anything. So finally when he kind of was wound down and had exhausted his complaints, The other, the older monk just said, put down, put it down. And somehow the timing and the situation created a circumstance where he, Master Shinyan, just woke up that moment and was able to actually put it down. So, you know, Nelson talking in his talks about the two aspects of the paschana and shamatha, or insight and concentration.

[22:55]

So what I've been talking about is the concentration aspect, what Hakuin was referring to as just the incense burner and the mausoleum quality. But the other side of it is the insight or the investigation And also sometimes we refer to our school as a school of silent illumination. So what I've been talking about is the silent part, the coming back, the turning your light inward side, the dropping side. But also there's the illumination side. And this is what the main criticism Hakun was making. that it's a dead sitting, it's a quiet dead sitting, that there's no realization, there's no illumination in it. And Dogen's way of describing that or addressing that in the Fukasazengi is he says, think not thinking.

[24:25]

So after he said, or I don't know if it's after, but although he'll say, cease all the movements of the conscious mind, the gauging of all thoughts and views, he'll also say, think not thinking. How do you think not thinking? Non-thinking. This is the essential art of Zazen. So, I think not thinking moves us beyond the usual way that we think about thinking. Where it moves us to, I can't say. In a more superficial way, you could take what he's saying as a way of transferring or transmuting your thinking energy into awareness. All that, you think about the tremendous amount of energy that we use for thinking and all our passions or desires or feelings or longing, all that energy, if somehow we could transmit that, transmute that into just an awareness and a quality of receptivity

[25:45]

So think not thinking goes beyond, it's pointing at the non-dualistic aspect of the whole matter. But if we take that on, we can't just sit there quietly or dead. Because think not thinking challenges us to, in a way, to do something. But it's not, you know, what is that doing? And for me a kind of illumination or when I feel some quality of illumination is when I come up and I know we come up to this barrier, this seeming barrier of boredom or emptiness, hollow feeling.

[27:05]

nothingness feeling. And it seems like we can't get beyond that. We can focus our attention on our breathing or our body, but then what? Wouldn't it be nice if something kind of dramatic then happened next, something pleasant? But it doesn't necessarily. it may just be some feeling of, well, what's this? Isn't there something more? Isn't there something more juicy? And so this barrier of boredom, this barrier of a feeling of emptiness or lack of something, a lack of the stimulation that we usually feel in our life, in all of our activities, our favorite activities and all the stimulation that they provide, I see it as kind of a barrier.

[28:11]

And to come up to that, to edge up to that barrier and be able to just stay there and hang out there without retreating back off into daydreaming or retreating back off into sleeping and yet not have any, you know, you can't just punch a hole in it either. you just have to stay there. And that's where some kind of trust comes in. You have to be able to trust that this is a worthwhile activity. Somehow you have to be able to trust that. Why you trust that, I don't know. Maybe it's because somebody who you trust tells you that, Maybe it's because you just intuitively feel it. But unless you have that feeling of trust that somehow this is a worthwhile activity to hang out at that barrier and not to retreat, to draw on your energy to stay there and yet not really necessarily being able to punch through either, but just to have the courage to stay there, uncomfortable as it may be,

[29:38]

or depressing as it may be, requires some trust and some courage. And what we find is if we can do that, even just for a little bit, that barrier starts to change. And I think you've experienced this where you may be feeling depressed, bored, something or other, and you stay there, but you stick with it. And it changes. It's not the same. There's a change. It melts. Something happens. And then it comes back. And then it changes. So that's a kind of illumination. Being able to illuminate that barrier. Something that seemed fixed. Something that seemed like it was insurmountable or just a big drag, you can enlighten it, you can illuminate it.

[30:47]

But you can't manipulate it, which is a good thing. You just cannot manipulate it. You just have to be there. Just not thinking and illuminating the barrier are the elements that I think Haakuen was missing in his own experience and why he criticizes us. So what we're doing is silent illumination and both are important. the turning our light inward, earnestly avoid seeking without, just the concentration and the courage and the trust to be able to come up to whatever barriers we personally face and to just stay, to hang out there at that point and see what happens next.

[31:59]

And to think not thinking is the illumination part. So we've had long discussions the first few days. So long, Malcolm hardly finishes chapters. So I like to keep it a little bit short today. We have about five to ten minutes if you have any comments or thoughts or questions. That phrase from Dogen, to cease the movement of the conscious mind, I've been reading a book by a contemporary Japanese Zen teacher, and it's called Opening the Hand of Thought. It seems to be the same idea, and he expresses it as thoughts are grabbing at something and that the effort would be to relax that.

[33:13]

Opening the hand of thought. So this hand is like clutching? Yeah. It's holding on to something. So opening it up means you don't get rid of it. But you just don't have to clutch with it anymore. No, but you were supposed to awaken with beings. You went it both ways. Well, but rather than fighting with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to awaken with them.

[34:14]

I vow to awaken them. It seemed to me that what you've been talking about is very much connected with what Mel's been talking about, because the illumination, I mean, one process of doing it seems to me to be just what he's been talking about, you know, notice this breath, deep breath, this breath, shallow breath. I breathe out, I breathe in anger, I breathe out anger. You know, that's constantly looking at what's going on inside, what's going on right here. And it seems to me that that's a detail of what you've been talking about. Yeah. Yeah, the mindfulness, quality of mindfulness, I'm glad you mentioned that, because it's true that a quality of mindfulness is essential.

[35:22]

for that illumination to wake us up, to notice what we are often reluctant to notice, or too lazy to notice. Maybe backward is the reference to the mausoleum. But another way of saying it is we take the backward step that turns our inwards light so that our nature is luminous and by sitting silently, which is manifesting I'm not quite sure what you're saying.

[36:27]

I get the feeling of it, but I think you're making a point that I'm not getting. Say it again. Another way of saying grace is to take the backward step that turns our inward light. our nature is luminous, and by sitting silently, we're just manifesting silently this radiance of our being. I think the backwards set of terms are... yeah. Ram, I'm just curious, what did Thakur differently, actually. So, does that mean that we should be thinking of, while we're meditating, in his view, we should be thinking of a case of a sort, and just concentrating on the words, the ideas... The dilemma.

[37:46]

The dilemma of the case. So, in other words, he's saying, People who do that don't sleep or... Right, right. They fall into something else. They fall into something else. They fall into a kind of dualistic approach of trying to conquer something. Here's me, great me is going to solve this problem and get something good. I'm not putting colons down, but I'm saying that's the drawback in attitude. It's equivalent. Yeah, I'm just trying to get a little bit better idea of what's involved there. Actually, there's no admonition in Haakon's way of thinking against thought. In other words, they wouldn't say, I think not thinking. They would just say, think about this story. No. He would say think not thinking.

[38:48]

It's because it's a thinking about the story that's going beyond thought. It's not so much necessarily thinking, it's considering. He's the one who invented the koans, where it's not one hand clapping. That's the kind of thinking. Thinking not thinking is a koan. Right. And also, when I discussed this with Mel briefly, he said that Hakun referred to Dogen a lot. Hakun, you know, Dogen was between 1200 and 1250 or 53 or something, and Hakun was more in about 1700, 1720, so three or four hundred years later, and referred to Dogen in a complementary way. Paco was a great fan of both Dogon and Tozan, and he adopted Tozan as one of his ranks as the greatest teaching.

[39:54]

But it's not that he was criticizing Soto Zen as much as he was criticizing the monks of his time who were not practicing properly. And he's also criticizing the Rinzai monks at his time for not practicing properly. So both the Soto school and the Rinzai school in his time were decaying and falling apart. So he revived the Rinzai school by developing the koan system that is in use today. But he criticised both Rinzai and Soto, although a lot of his writings he's criticised in the Soto school because he loved Dogen and Tozan so much. We should stop.

[41:00]

Thank you. In that period of filial loyalty, and probably for a woman, That's right. And how far away the next village down the river was. It was like darkest afternoon. Well, I'm sure that filial piety played a big role in her wanting to come back and see her father. But the part that's left behind in that case. Oh, yes. or an allegory about God then? Well, you know, the story is a story, and so the koan is adapted from the story. So, what we're interested in is the koan. I'm interested in the story. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned probably you have in past lectures.

[42:23]

No, that's good to ask for help. This is a more pure land attitude to say that we can't help ourselves. There's no way that we can do that. So we just give ourselves over to asking for help. My feeling is that by making the effort, we're asking, We're not asking exactly, but creating the conditions for response. We can't do everything by ourselves, but we can do something by ourselves. And by initiating and making the effort, the universe responds to us. So when you make your effort from a pure heart, without any motive other than to make the effort, that's a kind of asking, or a kind of prayer, actually.

[44:09]

So pure heart is actually a different... It's different. It's like saying... You know, Shinran said, There's no way that Buddhists, in this age of decline of the Dharma, that was in the 13th century, in this age of decline of the Dharma, there's no way that we can reach enlightenment through practice. So we should just stop trying to do that and just recite the name of Buddha all day. And so that became a very popular way to practice. But Dogen said, you know, even though this may be the decline, the age of the decline of the Dharma, I don't believe it. And since I have a lot of energy to practice, I think it's possible to practice.

[45:13]

Even though our practice is not perfect from a perfectionist point of view, It's perfect in and of itself if it's done with a pure heart. So whatever practice you do, whether it's reciting the Buddha's name or sitting zazen, if you do it with pure heart, that's the main thing. You're not trying to get something. You're just offering yourself. This enlightened practice means you're not trying to get something. You're not trying to get enlightenment. You're just making an offering. Your whole life is an offering, moment to moment. Then, when you recite the Buddha's name, or sit zazen, or eat your dinner, cut the vegetables, drive your car, you're in Buddha's world, which is not somebody else's world.

[46:16]

It's your world. our world, this world. Helen? I think the aspect that you're talking about is also there in our practice. It's there in, very fundamentally, we just did it. Well, first of all, I think we have to have inspiration. You know, we have to, we're led to, this little monk inside of us has led us to some place. And then we think, we feel, well, this is, I feel the reality of this place.

[47:30]

where I am. So through some kind of inspiration, we're led to a starting place. When I first came to Zen Center, and I sat in Zazen the first time, I realized, you know, this is a starting place. This is the place I'm looking for. And so I was inspired to practice. And then my intention grew out of my inspiration to practice. Did you make a choice? Yeah, I made a choice. I said, if I don't do it now, I said, I've gotten to this place through a lot of searching and I'm not going to drift away, because I know this is the place where it stops.

[48:37]

So, after I made that choice, I never had the desire to make a different choice. So, that's my own experience about choice. And then, you know, the thing about choosing is that whatever we choose, we will be inspired by and we'll be uninspired by also. So when we're inspired, we think, this is great. And when we're uninspired, we think, well, maybe I should do that instead of this. And so we give up. what we're doing and go do something else because we only want the good part. This is the thing about choice.

[49:41]

We only want the good part. We do not want the bad part or the part that we don't like. That's why I say it has to be beyond your feelings. It has to be your intention because your intention will carry you through I like and I don't like. As soon as like and dislike come up, you're lost. And you can argue that one all day. And you will. Just this reminds me of the difficulty of staying with the part of Zazen that does bring peacefulness. It's so odd how I or we drift away. It's almost like moving away from what's So just being able to stay with something when the wind blows, whichever way the wind's blowing, you know, that's what gives you the backbone.

[51:21]

And the problem is having a nice time. So we don't look for something nice. We don't look for something wonderful and nice and pleasant. Because then, when you don't have that, you think there's something wrong. And then you go look for something nice and pleasant. And you're always looking for something nice and pleasant. So you get divorced, you marry somebody else. But, the thing, the valuable thing is, that you've decided something, okay, good or bad, doesn't matter. That way, you develop your character. That's the important aspect. Doesn't matter whether the thing is good or bad.

[52:32]

I mean, of course it matters, you know, you like good things, you don't like bad things. But, it's all, it all comes together. The good stuff, It goes with the bad stuff, and the bad stuff comes with the good stuff. You can't make, you can't choose. You just try to make it better. But, you just keep, we just keep changing our equipment. And we think that what we want, the important thing is to be happy. That's the problem. That's the problem. If we can realize the important thing is how we deal with our character, then we realize what's important.

[53:36]

It's important to be happy. It's great, you know. But what is that? What is happiness? That's a good koan. What is happiness? Ice cream cones? Satisfaction? I think satisfaction is desirable. And it is. But it's not the most important thing. Would you say, I'm trying to understand the duty and intention. Yeah, that's good. That's a whole other lecture. This will be the last question. What about it? I'll wait for your next lecture. Well, I'm just sitting here the whole time when you're talking about intention, or thinking about it, or trying to dismiss the idea of deviancy.

[54:46]

or it's just a word anyway, but when you just said that about satisfaction. I don't want to get into the psychology of it. The point is, not whether she came back to her father or not, but coming together with herself, that's the point. Duty and desire. When they come together, then you have what you want. When your intention and your desire... When your intention and your want... When your duty and your desire are the same, then you're happy.

[56:13]

And that's happiness. That's happiness arising through intention. So I didn't say duty, I said intention. I don't want to talk about doing your duty, you know. I don't usually use that word. I don't either, that's why I'm saying it. But it's good to question all of our assumptions. I think it's really important to question all of our assumptions about what we think we're living for.

[56:56]

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