And now we are now we've we've plunged into winter for a time anyway, but it's invigorating actually that the cold. So last Saturday during Sashin, I spoke, gave the first of two talks about Fukan Zazengi and that is Dogen's, one of his earliest writings, at least that's the idea, after he returned from China and came back to Japan and was establishing a practice, he wrote this instruction for Zazen. And actually over the over the years he kept working on it in different ways, but what's interesting about this is that it follows in the tradition of

[01:02]

other Zazengis that were written in China. Most prominently we have the Zhu Changyi of Chengdu Zongjie, who was in the lineage of Master Yunmin, and there are whole sections of the Zhu Changyi that are kind of lifted and incorporated into Dogen's work, but in almost every case he expanded philosophically and dharmically on the meaning of this practice, and we're going to talk a little more about that today. One of the things, there's really, let me just say, there's an excellent book

[02:11]

by Karl Bielfeld, which is a scholarly work on Dogen's Zazen manuals. It's probably in our library. And there's an interesting passage from Karl that I want to read for you, but I want to start by reading again the beginning of Fukan Zazendi. Dogen says, the way is originally perfect and all-pervading. How could it be contingent on practice and realization? So that's a question. The dharma vehicle is utterly free and untrammeled. What need is there for concentrated effort?

[03:15]

And that's another question. Concentrated effort is more familiarly what people would identify as meditation, as meditation as concentration. Indeed, the whole body is far beyond the world's dust. Who could believe in a means to brush it clean? And that's the third question. Since there is no dust, why would you need to brush it clean? Which is, as I said last week, an echo of verses that were written by the sixth ancestor we named in a poetry contest. It is never apart from you right where you are. What is the use of going off here and there to practice? That's the final question. In other words, I don't think that was a, that was not a

[04:29]

a criticism of going on pilgrimage. It was a reminder that the dharma, buddha nature are right here everywhere we are. And if we go off to different places, it's still right there. So, that is his introductory paragraph to Fugansa Zenji. Carl Bielfeld writes, there is a sense in which Zen Buddhism appears to be an anti-meditation school. I think this is going to be news to many of us, right? But he gets into what he means. Uh, for whatever Zen monks may talk about in private, when they discuss their practice in public,

[05:34]

they often go out of their way to distance themselves from ancient Buddhist practices of samadhi and to criticize the traditional cultivation of jhana. So, in other words, it doesn't, in the Zen tradition, although we do a lot of zazen, it's not strictly speaking samadhi, concentration practice, or jhana, which is another aspect of concentration practice. Uh, the two Japanese Zen churches, Rinzai and Soto, have their own characteristic ways of going about this. The former, Rinzai, often most often attacks absorption in trance as a mindless quietism,

[06:35]

what is sometimes called the ghost cave of the spirit. So, in other words, the criticism of that Rinzai school might level at both at Soto and at other schools of Buddhism is that it's quietism. Uh, and that it's, you know, it's about the effort to kind of dissolve oneself into nothingness, which is not Buddha's awakening. So, Rinzai claims to replace it with a more dynamic technique of kana or koan study. The latter rejects the utilitarian component of contemplative technique. The latter is Soto. Soto rejects the utilitarian component of the contemplative technique. In other words,

[07:41]

it makes the case against Rinzai as, uh, striving. The striving, as it says, to make a Buddha. And we will return to this later in the passage. Uh, and that's its critique. The Soto critique of Rinzai is often that it's conducive to a gaining idea and offers in its stead what it considers the less psychologically limited, more profound state practice of shikantaza, of just sitting. So, each school may have its critique of the other and also of, of the standard practices of meditation. And it's not, so what they're saying is it's not about

[08:44]

meditation. And this is what we come across in the shikantaza, which we will, we will come to. It's, uh, well to, uh, spoiler alert, uh, it's, it's not about becoming a Buddha. It's about being a Buddha. So, as Dogen goes on here, we've read, we've read the first paragraphs and then, uh, then he comes to his instruction and he says, for the practice of Zen, a quiet room is suitable, eat and drink moderately, cast aside all involvements and cease all affairs. Do not think good. Do not think bad. Do not administer pros and cons.

[09:46]

Cease all movements of the conscious mind and the gauging of all thoughts and views. So, some of this language is, uh, lifted from the, from the earlier Chinese, uh, Zengi. And some of it is also listed from, uh, I think we're familiar with parts of the Shinshin Ming, the third ancestor, uh, or he says, uh, the great way is not difficult if only we avoid picking and choosing. And Dogen is, is referring to that. So, he's talking about not just the, the technique of Zazen, but the whole mental approach of Zazen. Do not think good or bad. Do not administer pros and

[10:50]

cons. Do not, uh, gauge thoughts and views, meaning do not evaluate or judge your thoughts and views. And this is a really important piece of our Zazen practice that we've been instructed in very, very carefully. Just if you have a view, fine. That's just, that's just like something that's been secreted by your brain for karmic reasons that are beyond our understanding. And don't get caught on your opinion about it, but accept it and let it go. Just let it go. Uh, Jose, we're losing you. I'm sorry. Nicolau, this is my, my point today. Uh, it, it speaks to what Carl was speaking of. Uh,

[11:57]

it says have no designs. Hmm. My, my, oh, am I okay? You're frozen, uh, and you have been freezing off and on. How about now? We can hear you fine, but you're still, your video is frozen. Really? I'm afraid. Um, we're starting to see action. There you go. Now you see action? Yes, but it's not ready for prime time. Huh? I'm not sure what to do. Let's see. I'm in Northstar precept, Northstar precept account. Are you hearing me? Okay. Now you seem to be good. Thank you. I think let's just try it. I changed the network. Let's see what happened. Okay. Uh, I'm sorry. Yeah. If that happens in

[13:03]

the future for any of us, we should, we should tell the speaker. Uh, I didn't know I was, I was on the wrong network. Sometimes these computers, you know, default to something else than what they had previously been at. Okay. Um, moving ahead. So he says in this sentence, have no designs on being coming, have no designs on becoming a Buddha. The practice of Zen has nothing to do with the four bodily attitudes of moving, standing, sitting or lying down. So, um, okay. This is really, this is the, to me, this is the fun part. Uh, throughout, I'm going to read you a koan, which is what this is referring to having no

[14:03]

designs on becoming a Buddha. This is referring to a very famous koan. And I got to, I'm sorry. I meant to pick the book. Just, uh, take a few mindful breaths. Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. That's good. Rowing your boat is Dharmic activity. Okay. Um, so this is a very famous koan, which we have studied before in different contexts. Uh, it's case eight. And in this case, I'm reading it from Dogen's Shinji Shobugenzo, which is his collection of koans.

[15:07]

Master Baso Doitsu of Koze in the Ko district served as Master Nangaku Ejo's Jisha, his, his attendant, and immediately received, uh, Buddha's mind seal. He lived in the temple constantly sitting in Zazen and was the most outstanding of Master Nangaku's disciples. Master Nangaku knew that Master Baso had exceptional ability for studying Buddhism. Master Nangaku went to Master Baso and asked, now great monk, what is your intention in all of this practicing Zazen constantly? And Baso said, I intend to become a Buddha. Nangaku Ejo picked up a piece of a brick and began to polish it on a stone in front of Baso's

[16:11]

hut. Baso came out and said, Master, what are you doing? Nangaku said, I am polishing this brick to make it into a mirror. Baso said, how can polishing a brick turn it into a mirror? Nangaku said, how can sitting Zazen make you into a Buddha? Baso asked, well, what's the right thing to do? Nangaku said, when a person is riding a carriage, if the carriage does not go forward, what should we do? Strike the carriage or strike the ox, which is drawing the carriage? In the commentary, this is commentary by, well, Dogen comments on, let me just see,

[17:23]

Dogen comments on this in at least four different places. The whole of the text of Shobokenzo Zazenshin is a comment on this. You'll also find it in Shobokenzo Kokyo, which actually is a wonderful, I'd like to study it sometime with you. It's a, it's a collection of mirror stories, various mirror metaphors that are used in Zen. You find it in Zazen Yojinki, in Shobokenzo Yojinki, and also in Shobokenzo Bendoho. So Dogen came back to this story a lot. I find this very encouraging, by the way, because it means there's a venerable tradition of old teachers repeating themselves.

[18:26]

So maybe I don't have to worry about that so much. Dogen seemed to do it as well. So I wanted to read you something from, from this commentary, if I, if I have it, here it is. Oh yeah, this is from Shobokenzo Kokyo, and he tells a story, the same story is told there. And what Dogen says is, for hundreds of years now, many people have held the view that in this story, Nangaku is earnestly endeavoring to encourage Baso in his practice.

[19:29]

It also seems to me that he's, he's criticizing Baso in the context of, and this is what, what Bildhub was alluding to in that earlier piece that I read, that in line with Dogen's idea of practice enlightenment, we don't practice to become a Buddha. Again, we practice because we are Buddha. So this idea of an instrumentality, of Zazen as an instrumentality, is far from the point that, that Dogen wants to emphasize in in Fukan Zazengi. But as is often the case with Dogen, he turns things on their head. And in the case of some of these commentaries,

[20:40]

he is actually putting forward Zazen, and thereby says, says, polishing a brick is exactly the heart of our practice. And that's another, so that's a, a different way. That's, that's an include, that's inclusive of the two poems that we read in the Platform Sutra, that the, the Master Winning's poem, There Is No Dust, There Is No Mirror, you know, Why, Why Try To Wipe It Clean, is a response to his Dharma brother Shenshu's, Shenshu's, Shenshu's poem that said, like, our practice is

[21:43]

every day wiping the mirror clean, just constantly wiping the mirror clean. And I think that Dogen comes to the place where he is asserting both of these things are necessary. So, he says, if great saintly teachers did not have the Dharma of polishing a brick, how could they possibly have the skillful means to guide people? Even though the tile was a thing that came to hand, it was just an everyday household object, the brick. If it were not an everyday object, or some household utensil, then it would not have been passed on by the Buddha's family. In other words, the brick or the roof tile, however you, however you translate that,

[22:47]

is itself an expression of the infinite miraculous nature of the Buddha. And we should not be neglectful or rejecting of an, of an ordinary object. He goes on, we should truly comprehend that when the polished brick becomes a mirror, Baso became Buddha. And when Baso became Buddha, Baso immediately became the real Buddha. And when Baso became the real Buddha, his sitting in meditation immediately became real seated meditation. So, that is why he says the ancient mirror was made from a brick.

[24:02]

Even though the mirror was being polished, it was already without blemish in its unpolished state. The brick was not something that was dirty. It was polished, simply because it was a brick. On that occasion, the virtue of making a mirror was manifest. And it was the diligent effort of an ancestor of Buddha. So we could go on. So, when the polished brick becomes a mirror, Baso became Buddha. When Baso becomes Buddha, Baso becomes the real Baso. And when he becomes the real Baso, then his sitting in meditation no longer has

[25:08]

an instrumentality to it. If that makes sense to you. That, in other words, Baso sitting in just constant meditation, no matter what he said he was doing, had transformative power. In other words, he trusted Zazen. And if we fully trust Zazen, then we can polish a brick into a mirror. Because brick is a really good metaphor for who I am. Thick as a brick.

[26:17]

Ordinary. Rough edged. Made of everyday material. Necessary for the creation of a wall. Part of everything. Bricks are interesting. I was in, I guess it was 20 years ago, so I was in Bangladesh. And in rural Bangladesh, there are a lot of brick factories. They build stuff out of bricks. So, you know, they take sand and mortar and make them. And they make these bricks. But then, the interesting, what was really interesting to me was,

[27:27]

outside of the brick factories, you would have groups of poor workers with a big pile of bricks in front of them, pounding the bricks to turn them into gravel. And it struck me, you know, are we adding a step here? From gravel are you born and to gravel you will return? I don't know. But I'm sure that there was a reason that they were doing it that way. But all these bricks that come together, they would pound it. It's really hard work. That was actually one of the first things that I did when I came here. We used to have a big pile of bricks. You can see all the brick work around, right? On the property. We had a big pile of bricks. I don't know where they had come from.

[28:35]

But they had the mortar, you know, the concrete or the mortar between them was still stuck on to the bricks. And so during work period, often just sit there, trying to pound the mortar to clean the bricks, to pound the mortar off the bricks. And that was, it was hard work. It wasn't so physically hard overall, but it was hard. It was quite jarring to your wrists and arms. But I remember that, you know, I'm just thinking, oh, look how much, look how much work has to go into even this, this simple activity, preparing these things which are necessary for building. So I like this metaphor of a brick. Have no designs on becoming a Buddha. Be a Buddha.

[29:50]

Then he goes into the conventional Zazen instruction. And all of us have had this Zazen instruction. I'm not going to go through it today. We had a really good session yesterday afternoon. The Zazen instruction, based on my understanding of Zazen instruction from Sojin and from others. I think that'll be on the website. And also there's a wonderful instruction, 45 minute instruction by Sojin on the website. So for the details of Zazen instruction, see there. Then having established your posture, having established your breath, settle into a steady, unmoving, sitting position.

[30:57]

Think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking? Non-thinking. This itself is the essential art of Zazen. I think we talked about this last week. This is a dialogue that's also the content of Shopagento Zazenshin. A monk asked Weishan, what does one think of when sitting motionlessly in Zazen? Weishan replied, think of not thinking. The monk said, how do you think of not thinking? Weishan answered, non-thinking. So what is non-thinking? And this is the essential art of Zazen. What I would say, as I said yesterday, for me, non-thinking is

[32:00]

the act of receptivity, the meditation, an open awareness in which all of your senses are functioning. Your mind is functioning as the sixth sense, mind consciousness, and you are allowing this information in. But what I would say is, in a particular way, your mind is functioning, but it's not acting on those perceptions. So in other words, one way you can think of it is, your eyes are slightly open, so you are, you are seeing in a receptive sense, but you're not looking. The same thing is true with ears, with our ears, and this is something that I've been doing,

[33:08]

trying to do in Zazen, is just open my ears to the fabric of constantly arising and fading sounds, and seeing if I can hear them without listening to them. Right now, as I sit here, I realize what just came in, and immediately I make, I recognize it, you know, there's a bird call, and there's an owl someplace nearby. But can I really just hear that sound without putting a name to it? It's very, very tricky. It's hard for us, because once we learn language, it's very difficult to, difficult not to invoke it.

[34:10]

But to me, that is, the act of non-thinking is really like, the metaphor is like sitting by a stream, and just seeing the water flow by. Every now and then, one's vision or one's ears get caught by something in the stream, and you follow it down the stream, and when you do, you just return, without judging, without gauging your thoughts or opinions. So, in the next paragraph, again, Dogen is philosophical, the Zazen I speak of is not learning meditation. So, the Zazen he speaks of is not intending to become a Buddha. It's not trying to get anywhere.

[35:17]

It's simply the dharmagate of repose and bliss. So, that it's the dharmagate reposes, rest, and when we are at rest, we are open to whatever arises, and we just include that. When we're at rest, in bed, drifting into sleep, anything that we perceive may turn into a piece of a dream. It's just open and reflective. The trick is, though, that repose can easily lead to sleepiness, and the state of mind of Zazen that Dogen is speaking of, and that Sojin spoke of,

[36:20]

all of our teachers speak of, is alert. It's an alertness. It's not asleep. It's awake, and it's awake to itself, to its own awareness, and that that's sometimes beyond our bodily energy at the moment. So, we make an effort to be awake, but that repose is an active state. I think that that's repose. The dharmagate of repose and bliss is also another way of describing Shikantaza, or just sitting. Dogen says, it is things as they are in suchness, just as they are. No traps or snares can ever reach it.

[37:24]

Once its heart is grasped, you are like the dragon when she reaches the water. You're like the tiger when she enters the mountain. In other words, you're home. You are in your native environment, and you know exactly how to be there without any question. And this speaks to, the next sentence speaks to what I was saying about alertness. You must know that when you are doing zazen right there, the authentic dharma is manifesting, manifesting itself, striking aside dullness and distraction from the first. So, that's a challenge. I want to cut towards the end here. So, if we do zazen this way,

[38:35]

Dogen says, you have gained the pivotal opportunity of human form. That is the opportunity to manifest being Buddha, which is being truly human. Do not let your time pass in vain. You are maintaining the essential function of the Buddha way. Honored followers of Zen, you who have long, you who have been long accustomed to groping for the elephant, please do not be suspicious of the true dragon. I think you know the story of the true dragon. If not, just briefly, it's an allusion to a story in the Nirvana Sutra of a king of, I'm sorry, of, no, it's from a Han history, of a man named Ye Kung Tzu, who loved dragons. He had dragons all over his house.

[39:42]

He had paintings of dragons and carving of dragons. And one day, a dragon was flying by and saw, this guy really liked dragons. And he said, I think I'll go visit him. He'll be very happy. So, the dragon flew down and stuck his head in the window. And the man screamed in terror. The Dogon suggests not getting stuck in loving carved dragons, but loving the real dragon. The real dragon, you know, that dragon nature is in each of us. So, it's actually accepting who we are, accepting our own true

[40:49]

nature, sometimes a brick, sometimes a dragon, sometimes a deluded human, and sometimes a Buddha. All of those states of being, we strive to find a way to include that, accept it and include it in our zazen, and then we can be awake. So, I'm going to stop there and leave some time for questions. And I think Heiko will call on people, right? That's right, everyone. Please feel free to raise your hand, and I will spotlight you, and you can ask your question. I'm waiting to see the populated list.

[41:52]

If you have already raised your hand, it's taking a moment to come to me. If you did ask it, there we go. Okay, we have Nathan. Just a moment, Nathan. Okay, please feel free to ask your question. I better unmute yourself. There you go. Huzzah, you said in speaking about your listening practice and your attempts not to conceptualize what you're hearing, to hear it without concept. I struggle a lot when I'm sitting not with what I'm hearing, but with what I'm thinking. And oftentimes, the recognition that I am not

[42:56]

... that I've become involved in my thoughts requires me to conceptualize of my thoughts and say, oh, that's a thought. I'm going to remove myself from it and try to refocus. Is that mistaken in some way? Is the naming of that? No, I mean, there are different meditative approaches, and that's fine. I think that the emphasis, at least that we were instructed in, is when you find yourself thinking, go back and re-establish your posture and your breath. So when I asked Sojourn Roshi, a lot of people have asked him, you know, what do you do in Zazen? And he said, I give myself Zazen instruction. So that's what I do when I find myself

[43:58]

creating a story or a narrative. And then, of course, all kinds of things come from that. When I see myself doing that, then I return to really focusing on my posture and my breath, putting effort, sitting up straight, you know, feeling my legs, checking my mudra, and basically putting my attention someplace else. But, important, if you have these thoughts and you find yourself story-making, as you change your focus, don't judge yourself. This is, you know, this is just our natural propensity.

[45:01]

Thank you, Nathan. Hozon, we have a, let me do this, a question in the chat. And that is, should being, this is from William Gordon, should being okay as you are and needing a little improvement, or any of the other metaphors that you've used today, have equal weight in our practice? I'll repeat that. Should being okay as you are and needing a little improvement have equal weight in our practice? I think we have to accept ourselves essentially. We have to, you know, apart from all of the messages that we may have gotten from

[46:12]

society, from our family of origin, there are lots of messages that say that one is not okay. The messages say that there's something missing, and if you buy these shoes or use this shampoo, I mean, is this being really mundane? We are being sold these things to complete ourselves. So, in that sense, there's a fundamental issue of coming to grips with being, with accepting oneself. And I think that at the deepest level, and this is hard for some of us, to accept that you yourself are Buddha.

[47:23]

If you accept that, you know, if you truly accept it, then you're Buddha, and then there's no problems for you. However, most of us are still on that path. And so, this is why Dogen, you know, this is why Dogen advocates polishing a brick. That's the little improvement part. A brick is just fine. Polishing the brick, I mean, it's just like in Genjo-Kon, when at the end of Genjo-Kon, the master is fanning himself, and the student says, why are you fanning? He said, you know, if the wind is, if the nature

[48:32]

wind is permanent, why are you fanning? And he says, you understand, you don't understand either the nature of wind or the nature of fanning, if you don't understand why I'm fanning. So, Buddha is not about sitting still. Buddha is an activity. Buddha is polishing the brick. Buddha is fanning. Buddha is living our life and paying attention to what we're doing. But living our life from a place of accepting I and every being is of worth and value, equal worth and value. So, that's what I would say. Thank you, William. Okay, we have a question from Judy. One moment, Judy, I'll spotlight you. There you go.

[49:41]

Okay. Thank you, Hosan. Very deep and broad view of this. I'm wondering how you see this in the context of trauma, and particularly the trauma response while sitting, which I've personally experienced with trauma industry, of freezing. So, there's a sensation in the body like a tightness in the chest or the heart racing. And without being aware of it, I go into a lockdown or a freeze. So, I think I'm sitting Zazen. I think I'm being present with this thing. But what happens is that, for instance,

[50:48]

that sleepiness. And sometimes and over time, what I've noticed is that the response to that, and also this conversation around what's appropriate for people living with that or working through that, shorter meditation, get up, move, broaden the awareness, all these things, that I could think of those as techniques. So, what I noticed over time, and being educated on these things and trying these things, that there is a natural opening the awareness, as I heard you speaking to. But in the beginning, you know, in working with this, or people in a war zone, you know, or other kinds of situations, how do you, what instruction might you give that would frame this as the practice of Zazen rather than,

[51:58]

so to speak, concentration meditation? In a certain way, I think I would say that this is above my pay grade. That, you know, what I know from my own experience and from others experience is that what might in a healthy zone be open awareness, letting everything in, for someone who experiences trauma is a necessary scanning or a trained scanning for dangers, scanning the whole environment.

[53:02]

So, you're already, there's a motivation for how you open, when you open your awareness, you're not opening it to be vulnerable, you're opening it so that you know what risks and dangers are there. And so, I think that what would be really ideal somehow is if there were a collaboration between a Zen teacher and a person who is trained in the work of helping people with trauma, and their various physiological approaches to that that are quite interesting to me. You know, there's not any one effect, but I think it would be great if they were working hand in hand, so that they weren't working in some appearance of cross-purpose with the designated

[54:07]

patient in the middle. I think that would be a really helpful process. And I'm not sure I've seen that happen anyplace. Can you? Yeah, I mean, I was thinking of Chris Ford and just being a Zen teacher and a retired therapist, although I don't know necessarily the specialization and the Hikomi Institute is doing work on this through their Spirit Rock collaboration, but I do think it's a really important area, because also I think about it of, you know, my dharma kin that I'm sitting beside, and we're practicing when we're in person in this endo, body to body, and we don't know the trauma that people might be sitting with, and they're not getting exhausted, and how do we support? But one thing I will say, there's somebody that I've been working with,

[55:10]

who has been doing EMDR in response to really trauma, childhood trauma, and I feel that we talk about that a lot, and then what we talk about also is in the context of the work that this person is doing, how is his Zazen feeling? How is it unfolding? And I think that's really useful. I think of the work that Laurie and our friend Santi Caro used to do, not exactly the same thing with Enneagram study, and one of the things that Santi Caro brought to the Enneagram work was looking at how one's fixations or one's characterological basis manifested in

[56:22]

certain qualities or aspects of one's meditation, and so I think this is a really fruitful conversation when people open that door to go there. So, thank you. Well, we have time for one or two more. Well, we have one more. That would be Linda. Let me bring her up. Good morning. Hi, Linda. Hi. Before I ask my question, I just want to say something about what Judy just brought up, which I think is such an important question. There are people who are very consciously working, Zen teachers, and the one I'll mention that I know about is, you know her, Hosan, that's Mushim Ikeda. They know people who are working with what they call trauma-informed meditation. So, yeah, that collaboration you were talking about is out there. It's really, really worth

[57:24]

looking into. Somebody got in touch with me who was trying to do meditation to deal with her own experience, and it brought forth more trauma because it took her to those vulnerable places. Anyway, there are people who are really into this, and thank you for bringing it up, Judy. My question goes back to the beginning of your talk, near the beginning where you were telling the Baso story, and the question was asked, I guess, to him, do you strike the carriage or the ox if you want to go somewhere? And, well, Kelsey has raised a question about the verb strike in the chat. I hadn't seen that. Yeah, I mean, basically pointing out that could we pet it or could we feed it instead of striking it, but for a moment, we could just assume that this is a non-violent

[58:33]

striking, and then my question is, I don't see the ox. How do I find that ox, and what does it mean to strike non-violently? The ox is very close to you. It's the ox in the room. The ox in the what? In the room. The ox is your, you know, the ox is your enlightened nature, and sometimes you see it, and sometimes you don't. What would I be doing striking my enlightened nature? You have to train your nature, and I wouldn't say strike. These are traditional stories.

[59:44]

Yeah, I don't mean it violently. I'm accepting the word strike as a non-violent strike. Right, so I think that there are aspects of our personality. There's the Buddha aspect, and there's the diluted being aspect, and we have both of those aspects in how we live, and so that's what the whole, that's the thrust of the ox herding pictures, is to the ox begins as wanting to go wherever it wants to go, which is totally understandable, and we befriend it, and when we befriend it, it befriends us,

[60:49]

and so that's part of the process. That's a, the ox herding pictures are a map of, from one perspective, of the path, so it's not, I mean, it's like having a dog. We offer training to the dog, and the dog is constantly training us. Right, you know that. The dog is showing us how it wants us to be so that we can have an effective relationship. The same thing with the ox, exactly the same. All right, well, for now, yeah, thank you.

[61:52]

Thank you, everyone, for your questions. Hozan, there are no more questions. I could ask you one if you would like. Why not? A question I have is, Baso, polishing the brick, our common self, as we sit and polish ourselves, perhaps, in Zazen, and the one thousand hands, the intuitive knowing what to do. So, I would present a character who is sitting and polishing their brick, and that character becomes empty-minded in the sense of preparing themselves for Buddhahood. They are just present. In that presence, is that where we have the intuitive knowing of what actions we should actually take? Perhaps, but we're not preparing. If you're polishing a brick, you're not preparing yourself for Buddhahood. You're polishing a brick. Understood, but if we're polishing our common self and not trying to do anything special with

[62:59]

ourselves in the seat, it strikes me, and from other teachers' quotes who are not Buddhist, that it prepares the empty self, which is ready. It may do that, you know, but I don't think… I think when you're nice to someone, you're not doing it to prepare your empty self for Buddhahood. You're doing it because this is how you feel we should be with each other. I see. I imagined scraping off mind coverings as I was polishing the brick. Yeah, set that aside.

[64:02]

Well, thank you very much, and let our practice period continue fruitfully as it's been.

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