So far this morning we've recited some scriptures. We just recited a verse about arousing the mind of enlightenment written by an ancestor named Ehe Dogen. And he said at one point that our evil, our evil karma, our karma, you know, involved with greed, hate and delusion, has greatly accumulated, indeed becoming an obstacle to the practice of the path. Did you remember that part? although our past evil karma has greatly accumulated, indeed becoming the cause and condition of obstacles.

[01:10]

May all Buddhas and ancestors who have attained the Buddha way, be compassionate to us and free us from karmic effects. So that may sound like they're going to be compassionate to us and they're going to free us. It's a little bit like that, but it's also like they're compassionate to us and then they show us how to be compassionate. And by accepting that compassion and giving that compassion, we're free of karmic effects. we got karmic effects, greatly accumulated. But by receiving compassion and giving compassion, we become free of karmic effects, allowing us to practice the way without hindrance. So we got the hindrances, receive the compassion, give the compassion to the hindrances,

[02:25]

and then we become free of the hindrances. it also says that, later in the text, it says, because these Buddhas and ancestors extend their compassion to us freely without limit, again, because they extend compassion to us freely without limit, and we receive it and practice it, we are able to attain Buddhahood. And let go of the attainment.

[03:29]

Another thing that I heard people chanting today was to study the Buddha way, to study Buddha activity, is to study the self. And to study the self is to forget the self. And to forget the self, we are realized by all things. Or in forgetting the self, all things realize us, all things awaken us. all things have this possible function of awakening us. But if we're holding on to the self,

[04:46]

for remembering the self all the time, we may not be able to allow all things to awaken us. Because we're busy holding on to the self. So maybe it would be, really, if we wish to learn the Buddha way, it would be good to study the self, to study it compassionately, to compassionately study it. And study it and its... study the self and its friends, its siblings, its neighbors, And if we compassionately study the self and its environment, then we might forget the self or let go of all of our confusion about the self.

[06:13]

And one of our confusions is that the self can be grasped all by itself. But if we compassionately inquire into that sense that we can grasp it, or that we need to protect it, or we need to hold on to it, or we need to prove it, to compassionately look at all that, the self is forgotten. And then everything comes, as it always has been, but now everything that's coming is Awakening, realizing the self. So again, we've been talking about how to practice Zen while carrying a self, or to be involved in the perception

[07:20]

that the self is practicing Zen, that's delusion. But if we compassionately study the self is practicing Zen, the self is sitting, the self is breathing, the self is moving the body, the self is doing the practice, all those kinds of If we compassionately study them, we will let go of those ideas. Compassionately study doesn't mean eliminating them. For me, we don't eliminate those delusions. We study them, and then we forget the self. And at the point of forgetting the self, we forget it, and then everything affirms it. Forgetting it, then everything affirms it.

[08:22]

Before we forget it, only some things affirm it. And then other things reject it. Refute it. Maybe not refute it, just denigrate it. That comes from Not studying thoroughly. Studying thoroughly, everything affirms the self, practices the self, realizes the self, awakens the self. Everything awakens the self when we forget it. But forget it, again, doesn't mean get rid of it. It just means kind of like we're just really so busy in the practice of compassion, we just forget about the self. So that's the basic study, is to study the self, to study delusion.

[09:25]

Compassionately. studying the self and the delusions around it. And again, the word delusion is short for greed, hate, and delusion. And greed, hate, and delusion is short for inexhaustible affliction. We say delusions are inexhaustible. The character there isn't really delusion. It's the character for affliction. Not just delusion. Of course, delusion gets included in the affliction group. We chose affliction at Zen Center because... Did I say affliction? We chose delusion because people are kind of okay with delusion, but greed and hate, forget it. Or whatever, you know. Affliction, eh, but delusion, okay. But really it's choosing one among inexhaustible afflictions, a politically correct one.

[10:39]

We could also say oppression is inexhaustible. Cruel discrimination is inexhaustible. Stuff like that. That's all included in the afflictions. Right? Does that make sense? All of our problems in this world, they're inexhaustible. But by studying them compassionately, we will row our boat through them. And in early Buddhism that was like rowing to the other side. So I laughed just then. I noticed that. Usually I laugh when I notice an irony. So we're rowing to the other side. Okay, this is good. We're getting close. How are we rowing? Compassionately. What are we rowing through? Affliction. Heave-heave-ho, pull that boat through the affliction.

[11:46]

We're getting close to the other side. Here we go. And then we get there and it's the same thing as where we came from. Irony. We're rowing to realize that there's no place to go. And there never was. But by rowing compassionately, oh my God, the other side's the same as the other side. And the other side's the same as this side. This is a later, this is called the bodhisattva rowboat. There's another rowboat which is you get yourself to the other side, which is great, and you think it's not where you came from. Like, see you later, afflictions. Bye-bye. Got away from afflictions. Ah, what a relief. But the real relief is that the relief is no different from the affliction. Then you can, okay, one, two, three, dive into the boat and go through the affliction, or even dive into the affliction to cool off from your sweaty work.

[12:54]

The afflictions are, you know, they're alive, there's life. And also, Awakenings life. Attain Buddhahood and let go of the attainment. So all things awaken us. Great. Because we let go of self. Great. But that doesn't mean that we get rid of the delusions. And it also says in what we recited, I think it says, to compassionately study the self and all the afflictions around it, is to forget the self, is to let go of the self.

[14:11]

And to let go of it is to be awakened by and affirmed by all things, and body and mind of self and others drop away. So this being enlightened by everything, your body and mind drop away, but also everybody else's does with you. And then this path of rowing goes on forever without any trace. And actually, one translation says this path of dropping off body and mind goes on forever without any trace of cessation. So, like, there's not any trace of nirvana in this path. It's not a sticky nirvana. So we're proceeding in freedom without any trace of freedom.

[15:18]

A trace of freedom is sometimes called zen sickness. You've got freedom, yeah, but it's still kind of hanging around someplace. I've got to let go of it. with nothing to attain. So you attain freedom and you let go of it. And if you attain bondage, you can let go of that too. And now you have freedom to let go of. And you can let go of that. And round and round we go, rowing our boat.

[16:22]

Through the interpenetration to the interfusion of nirvana and samsara, to the interfusion of being upright and being inclined. Somebody said this about somebody. She said, you're always upright and you're always ready. You're always like this and you're always ready to be like that. I really, I did feel like, yeah, I am always ready to be like that. She said, also I'm always upright. Debra, you're making one of those faces like you're in profound thought or you don't know what I'm talking about.

[17:34]

Pardon? Pardon? I had a hard time taking in being upright, but being ready to be … Yeah, being upright and yet ready to be flat out. To be otherwise. To be otherwise, yeah. Being upright but being ready to be not upright, to be leaning. And when you're upright, there's kind of like one way to be upright. I mean, there's just upright. However, there are alternatives, but the alternatives are not upright. There are infinite ways of being inclining. Upright is no bias. There's infinite biases. So, she said, somebody is always upright, but that person's ready to be biased.

[18:36]

Both of those things are great compliments. So I was about to laugh again and I saw another irony. Here's the irony. I could go on like this indefinitely. For example. So, I could go on like this indefinitely, but I'm not going to. No, I could go on for like this, and I will. But not indefinitely. Just for a little bit, as an example of how I could keep this up forever.

[19:41]

So the first, there's a book of serenity, there's all these Zen stories in it. Yeah, I'm going on. Number one, first case is the world-honored one ascends the seat. So the world-honored one gets up on the teaching seat and sits. As in upright. And it doesn't say how long this sitting was going on. But at some point, one minute later, one second later, two years later, Manjushri struck the gavel and said, clearly observe the dharma of the sovereign of dharma. the dharma of the sovereign of dharma is thus.

[20:50]

So one way is that this Buddha sitting there, right there is the dharma of the sovereign of dharma. But you can't see it. So I'm going to tell you that it's there. and me telling you there isn't it. What it is, is the Buddha sits there and I tell you there's the Buddha. And there's many ways I can point this out. And they're all kind of off. And then there's a poem commenting on this case, and the poem goes, The unique breeze of reality Can you see it? literally the Chinese Zen says, mother principle, which is sometimes translated as creation, constantly works her loom and shuttle.

[22:32]

The loom is uprightness. It's a vertical loom. It's upright. It doesn't move. But the shuttle is not upright. It's inclined. It moves in various ways. And the shuttle, which is not upright, works with the loom, which is upright. And the shuttle working with the loom, the biased working with the upright, includes the patterns of spring into the ancient brocade. So the upright awakening is working together with the biased delusion to create the fabric of life.

[23:48]

And it's always putting in, this process is always putting the latest thread into the ancient pattern of the creation of the universe. As I said earlier, I could go on like this, but maybe, maybe once in a while I won't. Like now. I stop now. I'm stopping. The whole universe comes forth and stops me. Yes, Zach? You talked before about trying to get something. Mm-hmm. And also about

[24:50]

Can you talk about how to shift from trying to get something to trying to get something? Because I feel like it's like a real heavy switch. So Zach said something about considering, I think he said, how to switch from trying to get to giving. Well, one way to switch, there's a lot of ways to switch, but one way to switch from trying to get to giving is to be generous towards trying to get something.

[25:55]

So if you notice somebody like your children or your friends or you or me are trying to get something, we got the getting. I mean, we got the trying to get. And if I really allow that trying to get, giving has just started. We're not started. Giving is there. And you thought it was a heavy switch, but it's actually, in this case, a pretty light switch. It actually is a light switch. Just treat the greed with generosity, and it turns into generosity. It doesn't stop being greed. It's just that now there's generosity by letting the greed be greed. And when we generously allow trying to get something, B, giving is there, and also when we realize that giving is there, and we realize that trying to get something was actually a gift, an ironic gift, and we see how funny it is,

[27:21]

that when we're trying to get something, we're actually giving a gift. But if we don't let things be, somehow we don't notice that things are actually allowed to be. When we're trying to get something, the whole universe is supporting us into being this deluded person who is ignoring that he has nothing to attain. He's ignoring the Bodhisattva. and the whole universe is coming forth and realizing us that way. And if we're not trying to get anything, the whole universe is realizing us that way. But if we're not trying to get anything and the universe is realizing us that way, we still may not wake up to that the universe is realizing us. We just may not be in the mood of trying to get anything. So in some ways, When you're greedy, it's a better opportunity to wake up because you can see how silly it is.

[28:27]

Whereas if you're not trying to get anything, that's more subtle about how that's silly. Maybe you didn't get that point. But to see that all of our acquisitive agendas are really gifts, this is a big pivot. Which, another thing I could talk about is that. But I'll wait for a second. Okay, wait a minute. Noni, you made a face. What does that face mean? You made a frown. What? What? So I appreciate it because I was thinking about my experience trying to get something or trying not to lose something. And also the fear of the stress is literally like being on fire.

[29:33]

That's my experience. So I'm like, okay, I'll just sit in the fire. And it's okay to do that. It's okay. However, then when I made the frown, I was so wondering, like, wait, like, the harm comes, and then the arma, which I'm not trying to handle anymore. Yeah. It's just this feeling. So, okay, so I'm happy to experience the fire because that has some impact. If I can feel it, it will impact me. hopefully having a type of not causing... I'm not trying to find a way out of this. You're not? What are you trying to do? I feel like I'm not causing harm.

[30:36]

You're trying to not cause harm? You're trying to be harmless? Are you? Are you trying to be harmless? Is there anything you want to say?

[31:48]

No? Do you want me to leave you alone, not ask you any more questions? I just don't know how to answer the question. It feels like a yes, but it's not a word. Well, a yes is fine. Do you want to be harmless? Can you answer that? It's a little simple, I imagine, that one could then go into. I just asked you, do you want to be humans? I want to be harmless. So there's the word I. Or you. Or me. So if I answer, I'm assuming an I. So I have this confusion with this idea that it's about karma, and that I, like, somehow... Yeah, wait, I'm sorry.

[33:01]

I just... Something about not causing harm, about karma, about impact. And maybe it's this idea of The awakening being that does not come home to benefit experience. It's the non-harming. And then afflictions, which I imagine by their nature, are something that would be considered one. Afflictions go with delusion. Non-harming goes with awakening. So that if there is a living in some kind of way, so then how can there be just non-harming? How can there be just non-harming?

[34:08]

There can't be just non-harming. Non-harming is in a close relationship with harming. And the harming and the non-harming are being woven together all day long. And when we are compassionate to the harming, we can be compassionate to non-harming too. If there's any non-harming going on, we can be compassionate to that, That's fine. Non-harming is calling for compassion too. And when we're compassionate to non-harming, then that promotes letting go of non-harming. And if we're compassionate to harming, that goes with letting go of harming. And letting go of both harming and non-harming realizes how they're living together in harmony. And wishing to not be harmed, not to harm, that's not necessarily a harming thought.

[35:17]

But whatever that thought is of wishing to not, that compassion with that will promote non-harming. And if anybody has any harming thoughts, compassion towards harming thoughts also promotes non-harming. But another way to put it is it promotes realizing that the harming thoughts are never separate from the beneficent compassionate thoughts. Compassion is right there with all the harming thoughts. It never, like, goes away. Compassion never, like, drifts away and says, I am not going to be here with these harming thoughts. Compassion is the harming thoughts, I'm here. harming thoughts, I want to be here with you. I'm your friend. No matter how harming you are, I will be with you. And I'm here to wake you up and liberate you and protect beings from you.

[36:20]

But the way beings will be protected from your harming genders, your harming agendas, your harming tendencies, is with compassion. Or not going to try to extinguish and eliminate all the harming impulses of living beings. We're not in the extinction program, the bodhisattvas say. We're in the compassion and liberation program. And if there's any harming impulses in the room, you're welcome here, I say. And if anybody here says they're not welcome, you're welcome here too. Everybody's welcome. But that doesn't mean we don't say, please take your shoes off. But not as a way of eliminating shoes or, you know, yeah, extinguishing shoe weavers, but as an act of generosity.

[37:28]

And sometimes we might say, please put your shoes on. Sometimes I walk out on the deck without my shoes on. Sorry. But nobody said, Hey, put your shoes on, bub. Or I should say, Hey, dude, put your shoes on. Are you, like, clear now? Yeah, great. Anything else you want to tell me this morning? Okay. What does it mean when you say to be affirmed by all things, when we forget the self? Well, again, I could say quite a bit about that. But a little bit would be like, you know, you come around a corner,

[38:36]

And you see somebody and you feel that they're you. You know, you feel like, oh, they give me life. You know, they make my day. Something like that. They are me. I feel like my bowl of carrots, I felt it was teaching me something. you know, the leaves. Yeah, exactly. It's like being listening. Yeah, it's like... Sort of like that, sort of. Yeah. The carrots are affirming you. The carrots are saying, hey, we're here for you, Glenn. You can eat us. My big bowl of carrots. Yeah, and the carrots... And the carrots are saying, we love you. We're here to support you. Yeah. It's like an insight. There was like insight or something. Is that sort of being affirmed by all things?

[39:39]

What that means? That being open to insight? Yeah. It's like being affirmed by all things is an insight. That's insight. But also, that you affirm all things is also a kind of insight into delusion. You can actually see delusion at that point. I said, oh, wow, there's delusion, I saw it. And then the other one, oh, there's enlightenment. Yeah, kind of like that. Like, I just wanted to tell you, I keep thinking of this. There's some wind chimes upstairs, and outside the office, which is now a doksan room too, So there's wind chimes, and so sometimes when I'm meeting with people, the wind chimes are making a lot of noise. And someone might think, you know, it's been hard to hear the people, the wind chimes are so noisy.

[40:46]

Anyway, I thought, you know, if we just compassionately listen to those wind chimes, it's good. And as you listen to the wind chimes, which you can hear, and you really compassionately listen, you will hear another sound, which you don't hear with your ears, you hear with your wisdom. I'm hearing something that I can't hear while I'm listening to the wind chimes and I'm hearing something else and I don't know what it is. Something's happening but it's not that clear. Buffalo Springfield. Yeah, so the imperceptible is right there with the perceptible. Yes, Joe.

[41:50]

You spoke several times about the value of conversation in an ethical way. Yes. My experience is that quite often There's one person talking and another person constructing what their response is going to be without really listening. So my question is, what about being present for another person? Can you talk about being present for another person? I heard the words, can you talk about being present for another person?

[43:00]

And then the thought arose, how about just being present for another person before talking about it? And then there was practicing being present for another person before I talked about it. And then I talked about it. So, excuse me, you asked me to talk about it, and I didn't do it. I just practiced it, because I thought you were kind of interested in being present for another person. So I thought, well, I think he's interested in somebody being present for another person. I think he thinks that was good, for somebody to be present for somebody.

[44:05]

And I thought, maybe I'll do that for him. I'll be present for him. You're always present for me. That's right. Yeah. So instead of talking about it, I just practiced it. And then, since you said you wanted me to talk about it, I started talking about it. And I talked a little bit about how I worked with that issue. And I think you're also implying, I'm guessing you're implying, that the kind of conversation that we need to participate in in order to be practicing ethical discipline, the kind of conversation involves being present for our interlocutor, to be present for them, to listen to them. And also we need them to listen to us.

[45:06]

So part of the conversation might be to tell somebody, I really want to listen to you. And I need you to listen to me. I think you need me to listen to you. Is that right?" And they might say, yeah. And I need you to listen to me. Would you please? And they might say, okay. And I might even say, if I don't seem to be listening, please ask me if I am. And maybe if you ask me, I'll say, I wasn't, I'm sorry. But let's try again. So again, we all have ideas of what is ethical and what is not. And that is, all those things are really important conversation pieces

[46:10]

What I think is kind is a wonderful conversation piece. What you think is kind is a wonderful conversation piece. So I bring my conversation piece. Here's what I think is kindness. You bring your idea of what kindness is. And then we start to converse. You might also bring a request that I practice what you think being kind is. And I might say, OK, I'll try. We use what we want, we use what we think, They're wonderful, all wonderful conversation pieces. But in particular around action, ethical action, bring what we think to the conversation. And in the conversation, the conversation, when it's wholehearted, doesn't get stuck in any of the conversation pieces.

[47:18]

So we still may think this is kind and this is not. And it might even be different from what other people think it is. But the conversation realizes the ethics. And it's free of our ideas, even though we still have our ideas. We make this wonderful other thing beyond our ideas without getting rid of them. And then that other thing maybe guides us and whispers gently, Maybe you could let go of your ideas a little bit and then we might say, yeah, maybe I could. The other person could say it too, but the real worker is not from the other side, it's from the other side working with us. It's in that interfusion. in conversation, we need conversation to become free of our own enclosed consciousness.

[48:32]

And being free of it, we then accept the universe that's creating us, and we accept the universe that we create. Yes. I personally say thank you for being compassionate in your speech. And I wanted to know what you thought about validation. I heard you say compassion is the doing and then empathy is the wisdom. And so I was thinking about the concept of gaining and not gaining, and then I thought about validating. So I validated you by saying thank you for being compassionate, but I wasn't trying to gain anything. Yeah, that's possible that you would just validate me without trying to gain anything. It's possible. Is validation essential with compassion?

[49:38]

I just wanted you to talk about it. Well, validation is related to the word value, right? I think it is. It's a value? The word value, which I think is a verb and noun, both? Yes. So validation is related to value. So to acknowledge that something has value does seem part of compassion. I mean, here's this person sitting in front of me. Here's an opportunity for compassion. So this person's valuable because they're an opportunity to do what I want to do in life. So I appreciate you because you've given me a chance to practice.

[50:41]

We had a lady at Zen Center many years ago from, I think she is from Singapore or something like that. Maybe she was culturally Chinese and she had cancer and she had a big bump sticking up out of the top of her head and she was in a wheelchair. She came to Zen Center to die. And She was in the dining room one time and somebody said to me, she gives us such a great chance to love her. So she's very valuable because she was an opportunity for people to practice compassion. So yeah, I think compassion is like saying, everybody's valuable. Everything's a great opportunity. So I think validation goes very nicely with compassion. And, like, if you don't think something is of value, that thought is another.

[51:50]

I would validate that thought as a... That thought gets validated as opportunity for compassion. Opportunity for compassion. Just keep passing me this stuff. Opportunity for compassion. I validate everything as an opportunity for compassion, including... thinking something's worthless. Great opportunity. And also I'll validate everything is. Conversation piece. Something to converse about. Something to inquire about together. Not just me inquire by myself, but together. So we've just used the word validation as an opportunity for practice. Not to mention the actual act of validation. But we can even use, I'm sorry I can't validate that, we can validate that. You're not validated here.

[52:51]

Thank you very much for not validating me. You made my day. Everything affirms me. One last question. Last one? Please don't think it's the last one. Another one. My desire to attain a level of success or wealth, could that be considered greed? Well, of course. Anything could be considered greed. But does it need to be greed? I mean, if you inhale, somebody could think you're greedy. And it could be a greedy inhale. We can turn any natural act into an opportunity for greed.

[53:55]

Eating lunch, which is coming up, could be an opportunity for greed. And then during the chant we say, to let go of excesses such as greed. It's possible to eat lunch and enjoy it without trying to get it, without being greedy about it. But wanting to be middle class, upper class, super class, anything you want could be greed, but it could just be a want. And that want could just be an opportunity for compassion. But you can want something without trying to get it. And also, we don't put our wants in our consciousness. Our body and unconscious process feed our consciousness with whatever it wants. So you can't help that you want to have tea with somebody.

[54:58]

You're walking along, you know, minding your business, and you see somebody sitting in a cafe having tea, and you think, I want to have tea with them. You didn't plan on wanting to have tea with them, you're just walking along, singing their song. And then wham, I want to have tea with him. Wow, how'd that happen? I don't know, but there it is now in your mind, I want to have tea with him. And that could be considered greed. But not necessarily. It's just like, here I am, a living being, and here comes a thought, I want to have tea with him. And there can be zero greed. It could be like, what a gift. I was walking along, singing a song, and I was quite depressed. You know, kind of depressed.

[56:04]

I have no friends. Actually, I hate everybody. And then, wham, in the middle of my depression, I'd like to have tea with that guy. What a lovely thought. You know? And no greed, just like, wow, what a gift. I actually care about somebody. I actually would like to have tea with somebody. What a gift. Now we could turn that into a greed, but we don't have to. It goes like this. It's a lovely day today, and whatever you've got to do, well it's a lovely day to doing it by two. But if whatever you've got to do is not something that can be done by two, well it's a lovely day anyway. So I'm walking along the street.

[57:10]

I don't have any appointments with anybody. I'm quite depressed. I wish I had some appointments, but I don't. I'm feeling down. The weather's not nice. And this blessing comes. I see somebody sitting at a table by an outdoor cafe, and I feel like, I'd like to have tea with that person. And I'm filled with joy that actually I want to have tea with them. I feel wonderful about this possibility of having tea with them. And I think, maybe they'd like to have tea with me. So I walk over to the table and I say, could I ask you a question? And they say, yes I was hoping you would would you like to have tea with me actually I would but I'm too busy but please ask me again someday okay see you later and off I go and maybe I'm depressed again I don't know but anyway I was like that was great

[58:36]

I was a little pause in my depression. That was like totally lovely. I cared for someone. They cared for me. And I wanted to have tea, but she wasn't available. But she wanted to. But we couldn't. So we didn't. And I was fine with that. And I'm a happy Zen student. And I wasn't even a Zen student before this happened. But now I know what Zen is. It's wanting something without trying to get it. It's realizing that whatever I want is a gift. And I'm going to give it away by saying, would you like me to ask you a question? Yes, I would. How did you know? Would you like that tea? Yes, but I can't. I hope you have a great day. And same to you. And we made each other's day, of course, we're making each other's day all the time.

[59:41]

And if we practice compassion with our days, we will realize that. But if we forget to practice compassion, we'll think, we'll miss, if we forget to practice giving, we miss that it's a gift to want to be rich. If I want to be rich, that's a gift. I don't make myself want to be rich, but sometimes I do. But I don't always want to be rich because I can't, I'm not in control of my mind. I might say, remember, remember, always remember, want to be rich. And then I tell somebody, you know, I'm trying to remember, I'm trying to stay focused on wanting to be rich, but I keep forgetting. How you doing?

[60:44]

When you were talking about rowing the boat, forever. I don't know about forever, but with no end. Open-ended. Yeah, that kind of brought me down a little bit. I was wondering, you know, Suzuki Roshi said, always be a beginner. Did that bring you down? When you're rowing a boat, how can you practice being a beginner? It has no end. Well, a lot of beginners, when they first get in the boat, a lot of beginners want it to end. Like I said, you know, get in the boat. This is a boat of compassion. Where does it go? Well, it goes to the other shore. And then you start rowing and the beginner will say, well, are we there yet, Daddy? When are we going to get there?

[61:52]

So that's nice. That's a nice beginner. Sweet little beginner. How much longer is it going to be? Just a few more strokes. And then after a while we open up to, this is really great, I love rowing. It's so lovely to row. And if anybody's back there, I don't want to get too far away from them, because I'm going to bring all the people back there with me. So I don't want to go too fast. I love rowing now. I love practicing compassion. Are you willing to do it without ever, with no end? Yeah, I am. That helps me be more wholehearted. If I'm a little bit like trying to get to the other side, I might miss the joy of the stroke.

[63:03]

But the beginner's like, well, how much longer? You know, have you got there yet? Have you guys got there yet? So beginners do have conversations like that. They go, at the Zen centers, over in the corner, did you get there yet? They don't usually say it in my presence, but I hear about it. Like some people ask other people, did you get there yet? Here comes the old man, don't... Let's not talk about that anymore now. He's gone. Did you? And then, well, actually, yes. Actually, I did get there. Matter of fact, I got there even before I came to the Zen Center. And then, you know, but don't tell the teacher I said that. There's a lot of stories about that.

[64:06]

which I'll tell you someday, about the people who said they got there and the teacher found out about it. And then the teacher said, could I ask you a question? And they said, what? Yeah, so if you want beginner's mind, then you should be open to like, when are we going to get there? And if you don't have that kind of beginner's mind of when are we going to get there, you can hang out with the people who do, and then see if you really feel okay about them being concerned about getting there, and are you willing to live with the people who are trying to get someplace. And then you kind of do have a beginner's mind, because you're happy to be in the beginner's mind section of the ocean. riding in the car with my parents on a long road.

[65:15]

Yeah, very much like that. And eventually with everybody's parents and everybody's children. That's why we need to practice the fourth perfection of heroic energy, heroic effort. We need to keep going back to how wonderful the practice is So that if somebody says, are you busy? No. Would you please help me move the mountain? Okay. It may take a while. Fine. I've got the energy. But in the process of moving the mountain, you have to stop and have little breaks and have tea together. And on the breaks you go, what are we doing again? Oh yeah, that would be good, wouldn't it? And then you think about it more and more and your energy starts to come back up for doing this huge job.

[66:17]

But we have to really think it's wonderful and think about how wonderful it is over and over, otherwise we'll give up. And again, that doesn't mean we never take breaks. We rest and after we rest say, yeah, let's go back to work. and walking down the street and feeling depressed, we still might be able to practice compassion with our depression. Or we may not. But still, gifts will come. I'd like to have tea with that person. I'd like to help that person. Gifts will still come. But it helps actually, it helps to be compassionate with the depression, because then we're there where the gift is going to be given.

[67:26]

So if we're depressed and we're not with the depression, when the gift comes to the depressed person, we're going to be off someplace else and miss the gift. So we need to be present and kind to the difficulties in order to be there to receive the gifts that are coming to the difficulties, or the gift of the difficulties telling us that they're here to teach us. Some people have difficulty with carrots. Fortunately, one of the little people that I spend my time taking care of, who calls me granddaddy, she likes carrots. She doesn't like me, but she likes carrots. But even though she doesn't like me, deep down she knows this guy is totally devoted to me.

[68:36]

I wish other people were too. Are we good for this morning? Yes, John? So, you can... Work things without trying to get them. Yeah. And you can do things that get you things without wanting them. Say again? You can get things without... Without wanting them, yeah. Or even like, you know, do something which you know is going to get you something, but without, like, a game idea. Yeah, right. Like you can go, like at lunchtime today you can go and sit down and you think probably you're going to get, food's going to be brought to you. But you're not trying to get the food. It's possible. I'm going to sit down for lunch and there's a good chance they'll bring it to me, but I'm not sitting here to get lunch.

[69:45]

I'm sitting here for the other diners. That's why I'm in that place. Even though you want lunch? I do want lunch. I'm hungry. I want lunch. And I go to the place where they probably will serve it. But the real reason I'm there is as a gift. I'm primarily there to give myself to the dining experience and to support the other people to do this dining thing. That's my main thing. And it turns out they come in and they announce, there will be no lunch. And then I say, it's a lovely day anyway. I'm glad I came and sat with you guys. I don't say it out loud necessarily, but this is like, but probably if that ever happened and I felt that way, it would be one of the great moments of my life. That I went there to be of service to other people.

[70:49]

in the occasion where they would serve lunch and I did want lunch, they didn't serve lunch, but I still felt really good about being there with the people. It's my being there with them and practicing them does not need the food to be brought in. You know, we were practicing together before the food didn't come and also when it did come. But we weren't trying to go there to get the food to us. And so when it didn't come, we're kind of like, wow, this is a historic event. And I was there. How wonderful. And I wasn't trying to get this enlightenment, but it was given to me. But it was given to me because I was there to give, not to get. See these two? These two fingers? These are a symbol for two extremes. Two extremes. Extremes of addiction to sense pleasure and addiction to self-mortification or self-denial.

[71:58]

Buddha found a middle way between the addictions. In other words, Buddha was free of addiction to either one of those. And he, earlier in the career, he was addicted to one or the other. But he found a middle way. But this sense pleasure, the addiction to is not the same as sense pleasure. It's the addiction to it. The addiction to lunch is not the same as lunch. Wanting, addiction to wanting lunch is not the same as wanting lunch. I do want lunch, but I'm not addicted to it. So if they don't serve it, I can say thank you. Thank you for not serving lunch. And thank you for serving lunch. Thank you for not serving lunch.

[73:06]

But if I'm addicted to not serving lunch, when they serve lunch, I go, get that lunch out of here. I'm injecting that sense pleasure. I'm addicted to not being attached to sense pleasure because I want to be a something. So then when they do serve lunch, if I'm addicted, I don't like it when they do. If I'm addicted to having lunch, I have a problem when I don't. When you mind the middle way, serving lunch or not serving lunch are both glorious opportunities for practice. Both opportunities to say, thank you, world. Thank you, middle way. Thank you, middle way. and there's no more lunch, or if there is more lunch, either way, it's peaceful, it's joyful.

[74:19]

There's non-addiction to what we want and what we don't want, or wanting and not wanting. Anything can turn into addiction. If we practice compassion with our addictions, they'll drop away. We will still have the same wants and not wants. Now, is that enough for this morning? It's still morning. And I hope you have a lovely morning.

[74:55]

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