I vow to taste the truth of the Tathāgata's words. Good morning. Today I want to talk about case number 35 of the Mimwan Khan, also known as the Gateless Gate. It's a collection of koans, and this koan, case number 35, and it's called Senjo and Her Soul are Separated. And the koan goes as follows, Goso asked a monk, Senjo and her soul are separated, which is the true one?

[01:11]

That's it. And Umun's commentary is, if you are enlightened in the truth of this koan, You will then know that coming out of one husk and getting into another is like a traveler's putting up in hotels. In case you are not yet enlightened, do not rush about blindly. When suddenly earth, water, fire and air are decomposed, you will be like a crab fallen into boiling water, struggling with its seven arms and eight legs. Do not say then that I have not warned you."

[02:11]

Muman's poem. Ever the same, the moon among the clouds. Different from each other, the mountain and the valley. How wonderful, how blessed. Is this one or two? So Goso, also known as Master Hoen, was called Master Goso because he lived on Mount Goso. And he was ordained as a monk at age 35, but he first was kind of academic monk. and he started his academic studies in Buddhism and he lived in the 12th century in China and during the Song period and he was the teacher of Engo who wrote the commentaries on the Luke Cliff record and

[03:41]

One time he was reading a text and there it said, it is said in Buddhism that when a Bodhisattva sees with his Satori eye the working and the principle are fused. Circumstances and the essence are unified and subjectivity and objectivity are not separated. So he was reading this in the company of other people And then a non-Buddhist scholar argued against this saying, well, if subjectivity and objectivity are not separated, how can that fact itself be proven? And we encounter this a lot from non-Buddhists and scientists in particular. Talk about oneness, true self, and so on. It's all very vague, very idealistic kind of philosophy.

[04:47]

How can you prove it? Looking at it from the outside. So another monk who was there responded to this saying, well it's the same as realizing personally how water is cold or warm. This is how you prove it. You taste it yourself and realize whether it's cold or warm. So Goso said he could discriminate between hot and cold but he didn't understand what this personal realization was. So he went with that question to his teacher at the time and his teacher said he couldn't answer it and told him to go study with Zen teachers down south.

[05:49]

So he went and studied with various teachers And then he came and studied with Shutan. And one time he heard the following talk by Shutan. And Shutan said, there are several Zen monks from Mount Rho, all of whom have had Satori. If you should let them speak, they could give beautiful talks. If you asked them regarding various koans, they could answer very clearly. If you wanted them to write a commentary, they could do it very nicely. And yet they have not attained it. So this was Goso's final koan, and the one he worked on

[07:00]

for some time until he had achieved full enlightenment. And it's a koan because he says, well, Shutan says, all of them have had Satori and yet they have not attained it. How do we understand that? So the question there is one of attainment or non-attainment. So anyway, that's the background on Goso. And let me repeat the koan again. Goso asked a monk, Senjo and her soul are separated. Which is the true one? And this comes from, although we can say Koan stories are sort of the folk stories of Zen, this Koan in particular is taken from a Chinese folk story, a ghost story actually.

[08:15]

And it's taken from a Tang Dynasty legend, and I will read it to you. In Koshu in China, in that dynasty, there lived a man named Shokan. He had two daughters. But as the elder one died young, he loved the younger daughter Senjo all the more and made much of her. Since she was an unusually beautiful girl, many young men wished to marry her. Sen's father selected a good youth named Hinyu. from her many suitors and decided to give Senjo to him. Senjo, however, had a secret lover named Ochu, who was Shokan's nephew. When Ochu was a child, Sen's father had told him in jest, Ochu and Senjo will make a well-matched couple.

[09:19]

You two had better get married when you grow up. This remark made them believe that they were engaged, and in the course of time, they found that they were in love with each other. Senjo, who had suddenly been told by her father to marry Hinryo, was greatly cast down and depressed. As for Ochu, when he heard of it, he was so distressed that he decided to leave the village, for he could not bear to live anywhere near her. One evening, he secretly left his homeland by boat without even telling St. Joe. At midnight, he noticed a vague figure running along the bank as if to follow his boat. He stopped to see who it was, and to his great surprise and joy, he found it was his beloved. He was overcome with joy at the truth of her heart.

[10:22]

and they embraced each other in tears. As they could not now dare to return to Senjo's father, they traveled to the remote country of Shoku, where they were married. Five years passed after they had left home. Senjo, who was now the mother of two children, could not forget her native country, and her longing for her parents and home increased day by day. One day, in tears, she confessed her painful longing to her husband. Loving you and following you, I left my home without permission, and I have stayed with you in this remote country. I wonder how my parents are getting on. Having left home as I did, against my parents' wishes, an ungrateful daughter like myself may never be able to return home. Ochu, who was in fact also longing for his homeland, calmed her saying, let us then go back to Koshu and beg your parents' pardon.

[11:28]

Immediately they hired a boat and returned to Koshu, their dear old home. Leaving Senjo at the port, Ochu first went to Shokan's house by himself, apologized for their ungrateful act, and told him the whole story. Shokan was astonished and asked Ochu, which girl are you talking about? Your daughter Senjo, father of course, replied Ochu. Shokan said, my daughter Sen. From the time you left Koshu, she has been sick in bed and has been unable to speak. Ochu was equally taken aback and tried to exclaim, Senjo certainly followed me and we have lived together in the country of Shoku. She has born two children and is physically very well.

[12:30]

If you do not believe what I say, please come with me to the port for she is there in the boat waiting for me. Shokan mystified sent an old servant to the boat to check and he returned to report that it was unmistakably Senjo. Shokan then went to her room in his house, and sure enough, his daughter, Zen, was still there sick in bed. In bewilderment, Shokan told the sick Zenjo the whole story, whereupon, looking extremely delighted, she got out of bed still without saying a word. In the meantime, the Zenjo who had come ashore arrived at Shokan's house in a cart. The sick Senjo went out from her home to meet her. And just as the Senjo from the boat alighted from the cart, the two Senjos became one. Shokan, the father, spoke to Senjo.

[13:33]

Ever since Ochu left this village, you have not uttered a word and you have always been absent in mind as if you were drunk. Now I see that your soul left your body and has been with Ochu. To this Senjo replied, I did not know at all that I was sick in bed at home. When I learned that Ochu had left this village in distress, I followed his boat that night, feeling as if it were a dream. I myself am not sure which was the real me, the one with you sick in bed or the one with Ochu as his wife. So in this story comes Koso's question, which is the true one? And we could just sit with this koan, just go on sitting zazen with this koan until the answer to it, the mumon kan doesn't provide an answer to the koan.

[15:07]

So we may be disappointed in that regard. It just creates a context, gives us a context and a question. And then we're encouraged to just sit with that question until we realize it for ourselves. It says, as the poem says, In case you're not yet enlightened, do not rush about blindly. This would be like rushing from place to place, from teacher to teacher, from different ways of interpreting the story to try to find out the answer to the koan.

[16:12]

And then before it says, if you're enlightened in the truth of this koan, you will then know that coming out of one husk and getting into another is like a traveler's putting up in hotels. So this is our life of impermanence. The forms keep changing. We have various we are different people at different times and this is something that continues and remains unchanged and this is what the koan is asking which one is the true one so we can understand this what this question is raising is how are we divided How are we separated?

[17:26]

How are we separated between what we want, what we think we want, and what we think we should do? And which one is the real me? Do we want to practice Zen or do we think we should practice Zen? And which one is our true desire? Is it our desire or is it our teacher's desire? you should practice like this or like that or do this or not and do we want to do this or not so this in a way is like

[18:48]

putting up in different hotels, different homes, different husks, different forms, this continually changing process that we call ourselves. And often we feel divided and separated. between these different eyes. And how do we find the unity in that separation? Sometimes, well this story is also about relationships. You know, being alone, being alone, sick, in bed, depressed, like Senjo, one Senjo, or being happy and with our wishes fulfilled in a relationship.

[20:20]

Or it could be the other way around, being unhappy in a relationship, feeling separated within a relationship, and feeling at ease and at one, being alone at home by yourself. So sometimes separation, you know, Senju and her soul are separated. Separation in the word means, comes from separere, and parere in Latin is also to give birth. So,

[21:26]

So being separate is also a way of giving birth to oneself. So in that sense, being separate and alone, although it may be painful, it may be a way of giving birth to oneself and feeling connected at a different level. And yet we can be with people and feel separate. And that's also very painful. So how do we find the underlying unity in

[22:35]

pain and pleasure and sadness and elation or happiness. When we're happy, it looks like it's just happy and there's no element of sadness in it. And when we're sad, it looks like we're just sad and there's no element of happiness in it. In a way, that's the way it should be. When sad, be sad. When happy, be happy. And yet in Senjo's case, these two were separated. Her body was sad and her soul was happy until they became one. So how do we find this non-dual reality in these changing, constantly changing circumstances, the ups and downs of life in relationship and in separation?

[23:57]

in sadness and in happiness and being alone and being with others. There's also three poems that I want to read that have been written in relationship to this koan. And one is by Master Yoka and says, delusions need not be removed. Truth need not be sought after. The reality of ignorance is at once Buddha nature. The illusory form is at once Dharma body. So this is like just going from one husk and getting to another like a traveler putting up in different hotels or like the waves and water metaphor

[25:44]

the water is the perhaps the pearl the waves is like the husk or the shell it's constantly moving and changing going up and down whereas the water especially at the bottom of the ocean stays still and unchanging so another poem says the moon and the waves now scattered now unified and finally the two girls were unified to become a young wife the working has ended no interfusing anymore coming and going leave no traces at all

[26:47]

You travelers, please do not ask me which path I once took." So there's no trace of a path or is a pathless path. It's a way of saying just casting away all attainment and just going about the changing forms of our activities. And then finally, let me repeat Mu Man's poem again. Ever the same, the moon among the clouds, different from each other, the mountain and the valley So ever the same, the society of equality, the moons and the clouds are not different.

[28:04]

They both point to something unsubstantial, essential. which is the underlying unity between this I and that I, this feeling at this moment, this next feeling at this other moment, being alone or being with others. What do I want? What do I think I should do? And yet at the same time this one also manifests as difference, different from each other, the mountain and the valley. So the mountain is different than the valley once

[29:13]

from different sides of the mountain you take a look at different sides of the valley and within the valley there are many different life forms And so it's neither one nor two. You say the body is the true one, then you're leaving the soul out. If you say the soul is the true one, then you're leaving the body out. You're saying being happy is the true one, then you're leaving being sad out, and so on. And yet they're not two either. So it's neither two nor one. And how wonderful, how blessed, how wonderful this interplay between being one and yet not being one.

[30:31]

Being the same and being different. Muman says, when suddenly, in case you're not enlightened, do not rush about blindly. Just go on sitting until the answer to the koan springs forth spontaneously out of our own nature. When suddenly earth, water, fire and air are decomposed, You will be like a crab falling into boiling water, struggling with its seven arms and eight legs. Do not say then that I have not warned you." So this is the warning regarding rushing about blindly. And suddenly, earth, water, fire, and air decomposed refers to death.

[31:42]

So if, well, if we practice with this question of life and death, unity and separation, then death becomes life and life and death are not two and yet they're not one and yet if we don't and we rush about blindly then death becomes an incredible agony like a crab falling into boiling water So that's all I have.

[32:58]

I'd like to open it up for discussion or questions, things you would like to say about it. Yes? You said that the reality of ignorance, I think that's what you said, is Buddha nature. Well, it's a poem. The reality of ignorance is at once Buddha nature. Well, I mean, that's like saying that... that's to caution you from thinking that the true Senjo is just the one that's happy and it's just the soul. So, the body and the sadness

[34:07]

and the loyalty to the father is also reality. It's also Buddha nature. So that's just to caution us from falling into a dualistic view of the true self or reality. But when we're happy, when we're elated, when we're ecstatic, it's terribly difficult to say, That's what I said, you know, when happy, be completely happy, when sad, be completely sad.

[35:24]

So that's what's happening at that moment. But, at the same time, don't be deluded into thinking that happy is just going to stay happy. And there's a deeper happiness also, or perhaps equanimity, that sustains us through the changes in moods and in happy and in sad okay so that's a different kind of happiness also okay so but there's a happiness in which we think oh this is going to be go on like this forever and i will never be sad again and circumstances will always be in the ascendant and then pretty soon we're very disappointed when it changes and then we want to latch on to that feeling of happiness or we think that that feeling of happiness is conditioned by certain things and we don't realize what the condition meant is for that feeling of happiness

[36:43]

so for a moment we may be very happy that something changed you know that maybe you know we wanted a relationship to end and we're very happy to be alone again but that's only a temporary feeling because soon enough then other sides of the situation will manifest themselves and your mood will change So, on the one hand, yes, that's what's happening at that moment, and yet, at the same time, we have to keep the larger picture in view. Yes, Lois? I was thinking that within the difference between deluding yourself and being prepared, and I heard in the question this longing for, you know, or at least maybe my longing is too strong, but it is that feeling of watching out so you'll be protected when the axe falls.

[37:51]

And it seemed to me when you spoke about delusion, it meant a lot to me because that's different than the security purge. To protect yourself against that feeling And that feels substantially different from preparation and very different from Western teaching, watching out, insurance, keeping your eye out for danger, and all these other things. Because you're trying to be indifferent to everything so that you're never affected by feeling good or feeling bad or feeling happy or being sad, right?

[38:55]

Yeah, you're watching all the time and watching maybe the wrong things. Right. But the thing is, so, you know, be in the happy and in the sad, but we also understand that everything is changing. So, don't act as if you didn't know when the happy feeling ends, you know. Yes? If we could get in the middle, what would that be like? Right, the question is, where is the middle? You know, it's just a little bit sad and a little bit happy, right?

[39:58]

Who is the middle? But it's sort of like, in the package of feelings, don't forget, there's a big label on that package, you know, however you want to visualize it. It says, it says, uh, impermanence. You know, like, yes, you'll have feelings, and be fully aware, but don't get attached. more of well if you're sad you know be sad right but just add something on oh this is never going to change i'm always going to be miserable i'm the worst person in the world uh you know what did i do to deserve this um you know uh there's nothing good about this nothing ever will come out of this and so on that's all extra and i think that's what

[41:21]

the teaching is trying to address in terms of attachment. And there's also, you know, in sadness and in certain forms of grief, there's a certain peace to it also. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's pleasurable, you know, because then we fall into that kind of dualistic way, but so is it all bad is it all good i mean that those are all the extra question but the sadness is there yes could you comment on uh apparently very superficial level of buddhism uh that says well if you renounce uh all delusion all these things you have no attachments of things then then you'll be you'll attack attain nirvana you'll be top of everything, because you really have no wishes, you really cannot suffer, because you don't really want anything.

[42:26]

And that seems, from the outside, that that would be a monk's type of life. Does this contradict what we are being taught here, what we are learning? The classical response is the Hinayana Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism. But we could say Zen is just Buddhism, right? So perhaps that's the story that Goso was... the koan that he was working on was, you know, they have attained Torah yet they don't have it and give good talks so on and so forth. But the way of Zen is more like how do we find, how do we live peacefully in the midst of this world of difference with our face full of dust and our head full of sweat.

[43:40]

It's different and yet it's not different. But it is a form of Buddhism that points to this shore and the other shore being the same shore. Do you want to pursue that further? Well, yeah, but that's our dualistic view of death.

[45:02]

You know, that there's something there and it ends and we see it as a form of terminal kind of loss and not see what the gain may be in it. what the gain in death may be, and not see it only as a loss. Which is what you're saying. It doesn't have to... when you say it's agonizing, it doesn't have to penetrate the level of consciousness of a person who is dying or about to die? what Moomin is saying just don't rush around blindly just just stay still and sit with a question and otherwise when death comes before us we'll be like a crab thrown in boiling water

[46:20]

I think we need to stop and maybe, do you want to say something? It's also, perhaps, it depends on whether at the moment of death you think of yourself as the hotel or the traveler. And if you see yourself as the hotel, then it is agonizing because the traveler is leaving. But if you see yourself Nithyanandam.

[47:01]

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