You should know the one not busy. This is the union of mundane reality and enlightened reality. In the Dongshan succession, In the Dongshan progression. This is called mutual inclusion. Naturally not wasting any time. Hmm. That's what the case says.

[01:02]

A thousand years ago. I don't have to change a word. Good people. When you eat. Boil water for tea. Sow and sweep. Know the one not busy. This is the union of mundane reality and enlightened reality. In the Dongshan progression, this is called mutual inclusion. Naturally not wasting any time.

[02:02]

I think we need to open a window for a few minutes and then close it. Get some air. Help the judge. Now, we've spoken quite a bit. Good afternoon. We've spoken quite a bit, I think, inside ourselves and together about this one who might be not busy. So now I'd like to have some discussion about whatever comes to mind.

[03:56]

I think probably you can close windows. I mean, particularly for you in the back, you're going to freeze there. Or you can leave them open if you can stand it. Okay. And during the prologue day I asked the new people to be prepared to say something. And You know, it could be what brought you to be here or to an interest in Zen practice.

[04:58]

It might be a friend likes it or some reason you thought you might. And for the more experienced people, I ask that they be prepared to say something about what's their present concern now in practice. But I didn't ask the people who've come to just those of you, those of you good people, who've just come to this since Friday evening. So I'll depend more on your willingness to volunteer.

[06:00]

But it's really important, really, that we... It's just not me talking. We have some discussion about this. And part of this afternoon, probably after the break... Yeah. I'll leave so you can not worry about English and you can speak in German. And Otmar can lead... What? The word... Anyway, lead a discussion. Rustle up a discussion.

[07:03]

So who has something to say? Oh, good, thanks. I have two things carrying with me. And I was struggling with this this morning, something you said yesterday that My experience or our experience might not always be true. So I thought that until now I thought to hell with thoughts and beliefs. I just trust my experience.

[08:03]

But on the other hand, I see how true this is. It was very convincing what you said. and so it was like a lot of doubts coming up and also other experiences for instance this mirror feeling but then It disappears so there is no mirror and so I was pretty confused. I mean, I also see that it's good to have all these doubts. I don't like them, but this is a different thing, but I also see it's important. But there was also something like, is it good to have all these thoughts, these confusing thoughts, because when I put them away, it's just the strong feeling of always there and there are no questions, no doubts.

[09:51]

And then I came to the point that it just depends on the level of mind. So I cannot have thoughts or judge experiences which are in a deeper level from a more superficial level. So maybe it's this way when Because when I have experience on a deeper level, then it's mostly in this moment, later on there are the doubts and thoughts coming, but then it's more superficial.

[11:10]

But in this moment it's like I know it is true, it's a very strong feeling, I cannot explain it, but it's there. And the second thing was that the question how can I experience more the impermanence of the one who is not busy. But now I feel maybe it's no longer a question because the experience is always a little different. But what's interesting for me now is why do I ask this question?

[12:19]

Where does this come from, this question? This latter question. This. The latter question, yeah. This last question, yes. Then I thought maybe it's again that I try to put something in a drawer and put the label impermanence on it. And then I felt maybe It can be like it feels permanent, but it is impermanent.

[13:19]

So it's something maybe, as I said yesterday, with the sword and the... What in the what? With the sword and the... Sword. Sword. Yeah, that's right. The sword and the what? The velvet. Velvet. Velvet. Oh, okay. And then I thought, maybe this is something I mentioned yesterday, like with the sword and the scabbard. My sister translator is here. Okay. Well, you know, maybe I... Yeah. Mainly... Mainly, we can trust our experience. And the main point I meant to make is we can't always trust the conclusions we draw from the experience. I mean, if you see a UFO, I know a number of people who have.

[14:45]

And I'm quite convinced something happened. But those are stories for a different time. But definitely they had an experience. The conclusions we draw from the experience might not be shared by everyone. But if you deny the experience, then you don't get anywhere. As my friend and mentor, Harry Roberts, the white man brought up by the Indians. He used to say... Yeah, okay. I don't know why. used to say, if a white man sees something in the bushes, hears something in the bushes.

[16:01]

The white man's always the bad guy in these stories. And then he looks carefully and there's nothing there. He thinks, oh, I must have made a mistake. There was nothing there. But he says the Indian, the Native American, his or her culture supports him or her to say, well, there was something there. It's just somehow not... able to be known at this moment to her. It's not within our usual senses. No, but there are occasions where you can't trust your senses. I've had a number of students like this, but one I can think of, a woman, very bright, who could not sometimes distinguish between voices in her head and voices from outside.

[17:22]

And this is often one of the signs for you psychotherapists of schizophrenia. But she's not schizophrenic, and at least not in any way, really. But it took a while for her to learn to distinguish between voices she heard inside and outside. No, I'm just using that as an example. We can't absolutely always trust our experience, but pretty much we can. Okay. Okay. I think you answered your second question.

[18:38]

Someone else? Yeah. I found it to be very helpful how you emphasize the culturally different ideas of Buddha nature. And for me also the idea fits that also change is changing. And that used to be for me always an idea where I was blocked and I put it to the side, I didn't think about it any further. So I found that to be very helpful.

[19:42]

What I said while we were sitting is from the koan, obviously. And almost the next statement after that in our school it says the Buddha nature is unborn and undying. Now, I've always taken that euphemistically to mean the ever-present connectedness. Let me just ask if there is a German word for euphemistic. We say that too, but I don't know if everyone knows what it means. Okay. But, you know, for some reason in this seminar, I've decided to

[20:52]

actually say, let's, in our progression, I mean, you know, the statement I gave you earlier, It says in the Dungschan progression. It could say in the Dungschan lineage. Or succession. But the word progression, I don't know what you're using in German, means that it changes as it develops as it goes, like science develops as it goes. So in our Dharmasanga progression and we are a continuation of the Dungsan progression

[21:55]

I'm going to continue using metaphors like the one who is not busy. But I will not extend that metaphor to the idea of an undying Buddha nature. Okay. Someone else. Yeah? In the con, you know, the dialogue is... Is it Dawu that says, which moon is this?

[23:20]

Yeah. And Yunyan that says, there must be two moons? No. Dawu says, there must be a second moon, or there must be a double moon. And Yunyan says, which moon is this? In this Quran, Yunyan says, which moon is this? And Dawu asks first, there must be a second moon. So Jungian says that there must be two moons, there must be a double moon. And we're saying that this is exactly the kind of mind that we're talking about. The mind that is not busy is a kind of second moon. It's a mind that is distinguishable or distinct from the mind that is busy. But that's not the end of the koan. The end of the koan, then, Daru was saying, holding up the broom and saying, which moon is this?

[24:21]

Um... As if to say that's an incomplete answer, that there are two moons. Can you say a little bit why it's an incomplete answer? Well, first of all, Dawu isn't answering the koan, or in any way, by saying, then you have a double moon. These are good friends and brothers.

[25:41]

And Daowu is trying to catch or check up on or tease Yunyang. As it says in the koan, Dawu saw a seam. A seam? A seam is like... That's a seam. Because this could be understood dualistically. So he saw a seam, an opening, and he says, oh, this is dualistic, isn't it? Just like Andreas would do to me, you know? And so Dao Wu, Yun Yan just disposes of Dao Wu, disposes, you know,

[26:48]

completely, I say, he dismisses. Union just disposes of Dao Wu's probe. I'm increasing my vocabulary with her to sort of, now that she's getting so good at this stuff. By saying, which moon is this, you idiot? Oh, he didn't say that. When I read to Sophia, she says, now you cannot add anything to the sentences that you read. When I read something to Sophia, she always says, you shouldn't add anything to the sentences you read. And I say, someone wrote this book, and now I'm writing it as I read it. So what's the problem? She says, it's my book, so they're my words and you don't add any.

[28:14]

So, double moon, maybe we'll discuss this tomorrow. But I'll just say now that it's come up. Double moon is a philosophical idea. Like Plato's ideal form. Like this is an imperfect watch because the ideal watch is a perfect watch somewhere and this is a manifestation of a version of a perfect watch. An imperfect version of a perfect watch. Like Euclid had the idea that it's a perfect triangle. But on a curved earth there can't be a perfect triangle. So Buddhism is quite different in this.

[29:33]

Buddhism says, oh, the watch is perfect. Whatever it is, it is as it is. It's our perception of it that might be imperfect. So he's saying there's no ideal... So he says there is no ideal body of reality. in diesemjenigen, der nicht geschäftig ist. It's very funny. Tom Cleary translates one thing in the case which says, this Zen master has correction fluid in his mouth.

[30:40]

I have no idea what the Chinese says, but there was no correction fluid before typewriters. What he means is... But she was born after typewriters, so she doesn't mind. It's pre-typewriter, post-typewriter, and pre-typewriter. Come on. Um... There was no Tippex before the typewriters.

[31:43]

You don't know what the Chinese says. Maybe you were born after typewriters. Some of you were born after computers. I was born after telephones. When I was a kid, we did have crank phones. When I was a kid, we did have crank phones. Yeah, that kind of phone, right? So, on one line it says, we're not creating a reality body, which would be a double moon. And in the next couple of lines later it says, an undying Buddha nature.

[32:44]

So they've covered themselves in both positions in this koan. One for the popular believer and the other for the more astute practitioner. And also, it's not only a philosophical idea, it's also a practical metaphor because the moon is in its many phases and what's the real moon? Sorry, it's not only a metaphor. It's not only a philosophical idea. It also has the practicality of a metaphor because a moon is an actual thing and it has its phases.

[33:53]

Oh good, you finally got here. I hope everything's okay. And because as Even the full moon is only half the moon. Okay, someone else? Yes, Maureen. I've never before come up with new year resolutions and that's the first idea that you inspired me to. And it touched me very much to hear that you've been practicing with the sentence, nowhere to go, nothing else to do, which was always very important for me. So that it does not necessarily have to keep me from doing those activities that fulfill me very much, that I enjoy very much.

[35:12]

And it also made me a little bit happy that I always rediscover this second part in me, or feel again and again, like in the shadow or in the background, that something is there. And it also helped me very much to see this, the one who's not busy as a kind of second figure in the background, who sometimes smiles about... How busy you are. Yeah. Yeah. And I also know it from bad times, that when I get angry or when I feel bad, that all that used to be important suddenly disappears. So that when I no longer have the strength, then it comes, without me wanting it or allowing it, it just comes.

[36:24]

And also I know from times when I've been sick or when I've been doing really bad, that then without any effort it just comes, it just arises in me. It's falling off, all these activities have to fall off. And I think that already has been enough for me to take this with me into the next year and to really practice with that sentence. Well, I'm glad I was able to help you with your New Year's resolution. You just call me Father Time. But I think it's too bad you missed this morning because some of what we said I think would support your busyness. I support your busyness.

[37:32]

Busyness. Not business. That too. So where did you, if you're surprised here that I practiced with no place to go and nothing to do, where did you learn those two sentences? So if you were surprised to hear that I also practice with the sentence, there is no other place I have to go to and nothing else to do, where did you get these two sentences? But only now I really understood that you actually have to practice with it for a longer period of time. Because everything I talk about is I've practiced with or I wouldn't talk about it.

[38:45]

Okay, thanks. Frank? No, I'm busy. No, you're busy. I really like my busyness. And I like to think. And I'm sure that the one who's not busy wherever he is, is also included in this. And so for me I hold myself and I behave myself in this Dungsan sense of always being close to this.

[39:57]

Because only when I'm close I can feel and understand what's happening. And can also feel what participates in the fact that something is happening. Okay. Thanks. For a minute I thought you were going to say, if I find the one who's not busy, I'll give him something to do. Okay. It's about time for us to have a break. Anybody else want to say one thing before we have a break? Oh, we have Uli and you, so we have two. Okay, Uli's next. When you quote the case of the Quran, you said, knowing the one not being busy and I was missing the who in the sentences,

[41:23]

And that reminded me of what Dogen said about continuous practice. And he said, continuous practice is your continuous practice right now. And the now of your continuous practice is not possessed by self. So my question is, the one who is not busy, is it beyond self or beyond...? Yes, sometimes I say the one not busy and the koan also says that.

[42:28]

And sometimes I say the one which is not busy. But it's just to avoid the use of who. But I think in our practice In English at least, the who directs you away from yourself. In this case. So, you know, you're very busy and you say, you know, you stop, you take a couple breaths to kind of find some space. You might have a feeling then by saying the one who is not busy just directs you toward this experience.

[43:48]

To use who in that sense just directs you toward the experience. Yeah, I'm just having a hard time to put the who into the German. There's no who in German. That's good to know. I'm just kidding. Okay. But there's always this problem in English, you know, I don't know German, obviously, but there's always this problem in English of an implied agent. Yeah, like we have to say, it rains, but I never found the it. Okay. I just want to show my willingness because I'm one of the persons that came Friday.

[45:01]

Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah. It was actually my sister who brought a book by Shunru Suzuki to my house. And I said, could you please leave this book with me? And it stayed like a year or two with me. And I was just thinking how I can describe it. And I think it was the book and the picture of Shunru Suzuki was like the address of my heart for all this time. And I was just now also in San Francisco in December and also visiting the center. And also my sister, she called me. I could come with her here. I'm grateful to be here. There's many more things to say. Well, thanks for saying that. Do you want to say it in Deutsch? Yeah? Well, why not? Or your sister could say it. I think she likes that.

[46:05]

I just wanted to say something, because this is the first time I've been here. I came here on Tuesday evening. And it was my sister who brought me to Suzuki. She brought me her book from America. And I was fascinated by the picture and had it for a whole year or two. I liked the picture and it was like Okay, thank you very much. Dankeschön. Okay. And Atmar, I offer you my seat.

[46:53]

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