Because I have to leave for the weekend and so instead of having Wednesday the day with an afternoon off we have Thursday with an afternoon off and I tried to do the lectures and discussion that we normally would have done up until today. So usually we'd end with a question and discussion and so forth on Thursday afternoon, on Friday afternoon. On Thursday afternoon, yeah. So we just switched Wednesday and Thursday.

[01:03]

But with the Griesler team on duty, everything is okay. Okay, so I would like to this time just go around and see if any of you have anything you'd like to... ask or share or whatever. And I gave our adept Frank a half-minute warning so you can start. Thank you. You're welcome. Gerhard refused to sit here. He's known me a little longer. Gerhard refused to sit here. He's known me a little longer. Yes. I would like to hear something more about this description of the body.

[02:13]

I would like to hear more about this description of the body. To do the body and not have the body. There has been much talk about the body and also done about it. Body work, body consciousness. Emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence. A lot of people are again interested in the body. But what I didn't hear in this kind of discussion is to do the body. Who does the body?

[03:21]

What kind of doing is this? I didn't ask you to ask every question. Just one will be enough. Okay, just one. What has this got to do with the theme of the topic of the week, the Dharma? I didn't think my utter failure would be so apparent on the first question. I don't know, actually. I think we do the body. In fact, we do the body. Yeah, I mean, Sophia again, she has no idea that she has a body.

[04:30]

She doesn't know that she has a head. It's just something that sticks out along with everything else. Yeah. Yeah. I think she seems to be mostly moving from her solar plexus, from the center of her body. Everything goes out from there. And as she does her body more, she's learning things. Her consciousness, as we've talked about, is more present in her body. Yeah, and I think the same is true for us. We actually do our body, but we think of it as something we have. And then you have the problem of who has it.

[05:33]

And I believe in Japan, Japanese, for instance, you just say stomach hurts, you don't say my stomach hurts. You don't think of it so much as something you own. So in all of that, I'm not trying, mostly I'm not trying to establish you with a new image or experience of the body. I'm trying to make us aware that we have an image of the body. And it influences how we act and do. But this sense of having is also in Asia. It's not just us that thinks this way. And Dogen changed... the usual way that we have Buddha nature to we are Buddha nature.

[06:53]

So I think I tried to make clear that if we can loosen up or change or challenge Or notice our habits of viewing the body. Yeah, we can be more open to experiences that actually will occur in zazen, and that experiences that can occur through teaching, which can very thoroughly change the way we exist in the world. Okay?

[07:58]

Sorry, I didn't answer all of them. Yes. Yesterday we talked more about the truth body than about the dharma body. And I had problems, sort of problems with what truth, the true body in contrast to the wrong or the false body could be. So there's the question of definition. And today, this morning, you spoke about the intention which moves or guides the bodhisattva.

[09:06]

And it... Shapes. Yes, and it scared me a little bit, because it was such a strong force that you described there. It seems to be able to superimpose everything, or to wipe away everything. It's just this intention that has this power to push everything aside, to stick to it. And this made me, well, it scared me, it shocked me somehow because it was somehow like a real strong force which moves everything to the side. It's like feeling as if it can override anything. As if what can override anything? This intention. Yeah, yeah. Like with this force and this will and this power. And maybe you can say a little bit more about that. It's, yeah.

[10:22]

Yeah. Well, I mean, partly I'm seeking for some terminology in this week. As is often the case, I try to feel my way into something, and it takes me a while to figure out how to speak about it and what language to use. So I used truth body and dharma body to be pretty much synonymous. And the word dharma is taken to mean the truth... And Dharma, the word is taken to mean the truth.

[11:43]

Yeah, the law. The teaching. And true also in that it true also And as an experience, true because it describes an experience that is as close to the truth as we can imagine and experience. I also use the word truth because it is something we can experience.

[12:45]

And when we... The word dharma is not, unless you have some understanding of the word, it's not something you can experience. Okay, so... And again I used the word truth because I'm quite sure that whatever the Buddha intended felt lifting up his flower. Yeah, there was some... for both of them there was something that felt true. Yeah. And when I think we feel, when we feel something that's true, and we're open to that experience, there's nothing more powerful in changing our life.

[13:52]

or by giving guidance to our life. So it doesn't take too long. Because if my answers are longer than your questions, we'll be lucky if we get to Sophie. And since she's new, she might be hoping that that's the case. Okay, so I'll reserve a couple things that I could say right now for later. Tanya? I'm so confused, I don't have a question. Why? What's confusing? There are so many concepts, I can't ask a question now.

[15:14]

But what's on your mind right now? Without anything. One thing I wanted to ask this morning, I... I felt like beaten up. By my lecture? No, I didn't come to your lecture. Oh. What is it? What made you feel beaten up? What made you feel beaten up? It feels like I'm a sponge and I have taken everything. Now it's full. And I slept and I dreamed.

[16:16]

And now I really feel like I'm having a very thin skin. If I had known that I had to ask a question, I wouldn't have come. We would have found you in the toilet. All right. I have a more technical or practical question. Today in your lecture, as I remember, you said that it would be good to once in a month really go through the body. Now I'm feeling, doing this, it would need more time than a month.

[17:42]

Yeah, but you have other months. And I think if you try it, you actually can only do so much at a particular time. It actually takes some, a number of, usually I think it takes a number of times to even begin to start feeling inside your body. I mean, we can feel when there's a stomachache. But it's pretty hard to feel your stomach as a presence. Although we do, if you can even start walking with your stomach or with your heart. And the way we use the Oryoki, a custom of picking things up and moving it into the body or holding it at the chakras,

[18:55]

Are all things that start developing our feeling feeling feeling for the body. So if you do, and you weren't here earlier, but there's quite a few tapes recently about this practice of various ways I can suggest to do this practice. But you do as much as you can. And you usually can easily start with the outer parts of the body. And then you can find a way to, and I think it's usually from the shoulders to the lungs, I find that easiest.

[20:13]

In a very simple way, primitive way, you can use the feeling of the breath in the lung to get a feeling for the lung. But we can only hold that attention so long. We can only do it for a while and then we can't do it anymore. But the next time you try it, you can usually do a little more. It almost feels like your body parts resist having attention brought to them, your internal body parts especially. Until you try it a number of times and they seem to become more porous or sponge-like. And usually there's dark areas in the body that we can't reach for a while, even years sometimes.

[21:27]

But after a while you get so tiki, you feel, what can I say, you don't feel much inside-outside distinctions. And the way you can feel your hand, the bones and everything moving, you get more so you can feel your organs and things. Yeah, and your organs, as you know, are also systemic, not just units. So you can begin to feel your circulatory system and your system. So anyway, but that takes a It doesn't so much take time as it takes intention and repetition.

[22:33]

But at a simple level, it's certainly an aspect of knowing oneself. You, after a while, don't think your feet are down there. And after a while you no longer think that your feet are down there? Yes. No, no. Two or three days ago we had the task to find out about the continuity in the body. And I had difficulties with the word continuity in German, Kontinuität. Because I think that continuity in English is something else, different from Kontinuität in German.

[23:36]

Is it? I don't know. Can you explain the difference? In German, it has the quality of being stable, repeating itself. But in English, if the word is derived from to continue, it's more like following one after the other, going on in one direction. Sounds pretty much the same to me, but I can't experience the German word, so I don't know.

[24:39]

So what problem did you have with the German word? I don't like it. What would you suggest instead? Aren't you the person who's famous in my mind for saying that German words are leased by Christianity or rented out by Christianity? are leased by, rented to Christianity. Continuity is leased to bookkeeping. Oh, okay. Maybe that's a Swiss perspective. Okay. Well, all I can do is say what I mean by continuity.

[25:48]

You know, at the level at which we feel we're in the world in a way we understand. We need to have a conceptual continuity. Yeah, if you're standing on a corner and you... look this way and you turn this way and you forgot that view, you'd feel pretty crazy. You wouldn't know where you were. If you say I'm at a street corner and I look that way and I see the red light or something like that and I turn this way and it's a new view a new image, I don't even remember the street and the things.

[26:54]

It's a sharp cut between this moment and that moment. And if you have that kind of experience, it's very, very disorienting. So we need to have some sort of, we look here and we can remember and we can say, oh yes, that's that, that's that. Yeah. And we usually check up on the world through our thinking. Yeah, if we can't, we feel a little crazy. I'm not saying we lose that ability, but instead of establishing our continuity primarily through thinking, we establish it by moment by moment physical presence.

[28:10]

And we don't have to have any thinking about it. And it's also a kind of, I described it as a visceral, sense of visceral continuity. You feel it in your guts. Yeah, you feel it in your guts. When I was trying to explain the physical feeling of it, Marie Louise, at that point, the first time I did it, was translating. And she said, While she was translating, she had the image she used to ride horses. She had the image of riding a horse up a hill in the mud. And you can feel the horse struggling up the hill in the mud. You can feel the whole, as she said, muscular feeling of the horse

[29:14]

carrying you. So when I was talking about it, she didn't know what I meant, she said, but she translated that feeling. But that's something like I mean. There's a physical feeling of solidity, yes, instead of being in place, And you almost don't need the usual sense of continuity because you're so feeling in place, you don't need ordinary continuity. But in fact, your continuity is found by feeling in place in each moment. And your mind is barely, it sort of like sees things and sees gestalts, not distinctions.

[30:32]

So it's a... It's a shift I can only imagine being... Yeah, yeah, it's a shift... I can only imagine being the way we usually function. It's only a shift I can imagine as a way we usually function through practice of mindfulness, bodily mindfulness. But perhaps also tai chi and things like that would do the same. And all this emphasis on the hara in martial arts and in Zen is a version of this kind of feeling. If you watch Japanese movies, samurai, you have these little fat samurais sometimes. And they don't look like they're very tough.

[31:33]

But they go running along with their tummy ahead of them, you know? And we sort of go along with our shoulders. But they sort of, and they walk. Do you know what I mean? Okay, next. René, let's go. What? René, let's go. Go on. René, you want to say something else? René, go on. I think playing the saxophone, you have to probably have a feeling for this. Don't you have to play from down here somewhere? Yeah. You think so, huh? OK. Yeah, next. She tries to escape. One thing out of the lectures and also from our discussion where I asked myself whether I understood it correctly.

[33:13]

For example yesterday when we talked about the gates to the truth body. Also the discussion before, one point for me was that it always was about sense perception. And my question is whether the sensual perceptions are a gate to the truth body or is there something else? No, it's definitely a gate. If you can rest your mind, as I said this morning, in direct perception, bare perception, the more, for example, I can just look at this room, without thinking, without cognizing. but having a visual feeling or a smelling feeling.

[34:37]

This opens you, this is one of the ways, and I think that Herman expressed it quite well the other day, opens you to this kind of boundaryless feeling, a wide feeling. So a kind of yogic skill is to rest the mind most of the time in the perceptual field without much thinking. And this would be a lot like what I've often taught is the three minds of daily consciousness. Being immediate consciousness in contrast to borrowed consciousness. Okay, enough of the starter.

[35:46]

Yes, Akash. The day before we talked in our group about continuity, about our experiences and difficulties with that. And I found three different kinds of experiences in our group. The first one is, it's difficult to talk about it. It's continuity in change, in impermanence. Experience of continuity in a painful period of sitting. And continuity which you can practice or can keep up. To keep up friendship or love.

[36:55]

Keep contact to the precepts, for example. Or experience during reciting the names of the ancestors. Or like the Heart Sutra has been recited for such a long time. And I would like to hear more about continuity which can be practiced. Well, all of the things you said are continuity which can be practiced. And I think All of them are part of developing, discovering, generating a imperturbable continuity of mind.

[38:09]

And that... that happens, one of the ways actually that we get a feeling for that is sitting through the pain of zazen, particularly in a zazen or something. It's not very pleasant, but it somehow really gives the mind some strength and potential. But I don't know any other way to get in the same way, at least. And if you practice, for instance, the repetition of a phrase, Or you hold a teaching like the precepts or skandhas before you.

[39:30]

For some, one of the things that happens no matter what it is you're holding. Yeah, it makes some difference, but mostly it's the same if you develop the practice of holding a teaching before you, around you, within you. Yeah. Is that... It... It's sort of, how can I say, it's as if our mind has various streams. Like the ocean or a creek might have various streams. So slow water at the edges, twirling around, you know. Another movement of water on the middle surface.

[40:39]

And another movement of water down deeper in the stream. And usually a quite large percentage of water underground running below the stream bed. By repeating a phrase or holding, like I'm always close to this, or by holding the teaching of the skandhas within you, Yeah. You kind of sort out from the various streams of mind currents of mind. You sort out or get in touch with the current that's most... deep and continuous.

[41:43]

And the use of a phrase or a teaching sort of somehow brings that to the surface. And somehow, again, you have some experience of truth when you have that experience. And likewise, when you bring, hold a, hold a teaching or a phrase before you or within you. Why am I hesitating using the word before? Because in English it has a front-back feeling. And I don't mean front-back. I mean before other perceptions. So if you hold a phrase or teaching before you perceive or conceive, it not only helps you identify and perceive,

[42:52]

strengthen a deeper stream of mind and it also calls forth the world. The world starts doing thinking for you. It's kind of not mental thinking but mindfulness thinking. It's like and it's a lot like People who are mathematicians or physicists, if they speak about how they came upon ideas, they often are doing something like, this is on their mind all the time, how do you solve this problem? And then they are sitting in the car waiting for their wife who's in the grocery store.

[44:06]

And somebody slams the car door and suddenly it's clear how to solve the problem. You can't think yourself to this place, but you can hold yourself in the world to this place. It opens you to a mind that listens to the world. And this is part of what's meant by the teaching of insentient beings. I don't want to go into that right now. Yes? Oh, yeah, go ahead. What does the image of the Crystal Palace mean in the Kuans?

[45:08]

I read it a number of times. Sometimes it means something aloof and separate. You know, some isolated or special place. And sometimes it means like fairy tales or something wonderful. It depends on the context. And it's often just an architectural image. It's often described as jewels or crystal. Because as your mind becomes clearer, you're less recapitulating your karma all the time. The mind itself seems to have a kind of light. It's not like I see light in this room.

[46:13]

It's like the seeing itself is a kind of light. And in the old days, they had the idea before modern science, contemporary science, that you actually sent a light beam out, or a beam out, you saw by beaming out. And now we think of light as coming in. But there's something to this beaming out. And I've seen it a couple of times. Where you regularly feel someone's eyes beaming like torches almost through you or above your head, like a gunshot going over your head. So again, you begin to see things, feel things more as light.

[47:26]

And as a light that comes from the mind itself. So images of radiance and crystal are common. Zen doesn't say everything is light. And it often uses images of darkness, blackness, utter darkness. So in Zen we don't speak about some kind of fundamental clear light. But we experience mind as light. Okay. Andrea? On Saturday I'm going to leave. So this is my last event with you. I really want to thank you for the

[48:27]

the trouble you're, the effort you're giving to us? Oh, I kind of enjoy the trouble, actually. You didn't say trouble? Effort. Oh, I enjoy it. I enjoy that, too. Dogen, you know, says life is one continuous mistake. Yeah, okay, go ahead. I noticed that I wept a lot here. And I also noticed that the reasons for that were various, different kinds of reasons. And the reasons could change from one moment to the next. Or maybe not the reasons, but my thoughts or associations to it.

[49:49]

For example, it could be that I started crying at the Oryoki meal because I looked at the soup and the vegetables were so beautiful. because it was beautiful or calm, the stillness. And also again and again I had the feeling of sadness. And what surprised me was that it had somehow changed from one second to the next. So that I didn't really know what was going on, but it was actually the one. So as if it were like that, I don't know. But it really surprised me that the reason for weeping, it could change from one moment to the next, and at the next moment I didn't know why I started weeping.

[51:00]

Actually, I understand. Okay. Hildegard? This morning you talked about that falling in love is not healthy because it always goes up and down. No, I didn't say that. That's how I understood it. Yeah. I said the imagination of falling in love hooks us into culture. In other words, falling in love itself, it's rather nice, actually. It may have its problems in the future.

[52:27]

But it's still rather nice. But a lot of us, particularly as we get older, and we're not in love, we try to turn ourselves into a person that someone might love. Not often done in cultural terms. Boys trying to buy a real cool car. And women, you know, dye their hair and various things. That's okay. But it makes you part of the culture. Because you're imagining somebody, you want somebody to fall in love with you, also part of the culture.

[53:30]

So the anticipation of falling in love is a big hook. Yeah. And then you usually fall in love with the wrong person because you didn't want to be part of the culture anyway. So it's better just to, you know... Look the funny old way you look. And have a funky old car. And the right person will come riding by on their horse. Or be hitchhiking. I don't know. That's what I meant. Yeah. How can you keep up this feeling of love?

[54:35]

Or how can you keep a relationship so that it doesn't lead into suffering? With that recipe, $1,000. Only a thousand? He knows it. Oh, you have the recipe. Well, that's cheap. Can I owe you? I'll have an installment payment. If it works. Yeah, I don't know.

[55:40]

I think it's more possible to have the feeling of being in love through bodhisattva practice than through a male and female relationship between two people. That experience of being in love is a capacity of us as human beings. And as I said the other day, it doesn't have to depend on some love object. And if it doesn't depend on a love object, you're more likely to be able to stay in love too, with another person. But love changes. But I do think it's possible to stay something like close to being in love, but I don't think it's very common.

[56:45]

But I don't think it's very common. But anyway, it's... Yeah, if we can find someone to live with, it's often, you know, it's okay. If we can't, it's okay, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm lucky, I feel lucky to be living with someone now. But the few, some years before that, I had completely adjusted to living alone the rest of my life. And it felt fine. I mean, really, I went to bed every night and I would say, I'm so happy. It would just pop out of me. Yeah, because I don't know. Like Andrea said, the carrots were beautiful. The soup, the delicious, the ceiling, you know, everything. So... Yeah, but... Maybe it's just because I'm getting old that I was able to be happy living alone.

[58:22]

But I certainly didn't have the skills that Tony thought. Okay. Sophie? Sophie? I used to think that I knew a lot about Zen Buddhism. And coming here and actually getting into the practice more made me realize that that wasn't true. I feel like I'm starting completely over with a clean slate or some sort that's kind of fighting.

[59:30]

But in the past couple of days, just through sitting and listening to people, I'm experiencing the practice of sitting more and noticing my body more with my mind and my mind with my body. Not in any sense of having some sort of dharma body. I might disagree, but that's okay. But I think the one reason that I've been attracted to Zen Buddhism is through my experience in other parts of my life, when I'm not trying to send every day

[60:43]

Sorry, why are you attracted? In everyday life and in painting, particularly as she's a painter. This attracts you to the same practice? I think I've been interested in Buddhism because of the experience I've had in my life outside of Sydney. How do I form this into a question? I feel like it makes sense through the activity that I've experienced outside of sitting. But also through sitting I'm starting to see the discontinuity of my body and my mind, my intention. I guess what I'm getting down to, which is much more simple, is...

[61:56]

I don't really understand why it has to hurt so much. Actually, painting hurts for me too, but it seems much more simple and not trying. Painting actually hurts for me too, but not trying. Zen is a lifetime practice. Although most of us have to go through a boring period, when our societal and social ego Social. And our psychological ego is trying to get us to stop because it feels under siege.

[63:15]

Siege means to wage war against. And so it makes it very boring. And if boredom doesn't work, it tries to make you feel you're going crazy. But boredom works for most people. That's one of the big weapons the ego has. But once you get past that, for example, I don't feel every zazen is different and interesting, or if I want it to be interesting. And as for the pain, I think the pain is actually good.

[64:17]

You know, we don't have any puberty rights or anything that tells us, this life isn't so easy. We have to face old age, sickness and death. Not only our own, but our family and friends. Someone said old age is not for sissies. I'm not that old yet. And somehow we get stronger through the pain in sasa. And it does clear our mind. But it's also true that you get used to it after a while and it doesn't hurt so much. And the more your mind can be settled, even if it does hurt, it doesn't bother you.

[65:38]

Yeah. Sophie's, may I say, Sophie's father is a very old friend of mine. And he was one of the first students of Suzuki Roshi. And he actually is the person who drew the fly in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. I remember I wrote to him. I said, would you like to draw something, put something in the book? And I said, do anything you want. So he came back this page with this detailed little fly drawing. And he said, don't put it on the fly leaf. The fly leaf of the blank page is inside the cover. He said, I want a whole page for the fly somewhere in the middle of the book.

[66:54]

So I did that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My topic is not boredom in Zen. I never had this problem. And it also isn't exactly what you described just now, the fear of going crazy. But it's sometimes very intensively the sentence which you just quoted from Dogen that life is a continuous mistake.

[67:57]

This morning, very similar to what Gerald said, when you talked about this basic intention, This starts such an intense feeling field for me that it really shatters me. In that sense that when I really try to feel into the Dharma body, other than in the truth body,

[69:11]

which I see more in the experiential realm, There is this feeling without boundaries where I stabilize myself in every dharma which appears. so that I ask myself in a very practical way, how should this ever come together with my totally usual functional self? Where I am in likes and dislikes in exchange with others.

[70:40]

How can I ever unite this with a moment, moment, moment? Well, you have the idea, so it's probably possible. And because you have the idea, because you see the possibility, usually that means already there's an opening. If your intention is there, your intent is there. If your intention is there. I think what I said this morning about the negotiation of subjectivity and objectivity is probably good. Negotiation of subjectivity and objectivity.

[72:00]

In other words, to function with other people if you're working in your store and whatever, you know. You have to relate to likes and dislikes. And your own as well. And all the customers involved and what they like and dislike. But it's a kind of way of functioning. But it's not the only way you can function. So you see it as a way of, it's like a way to communicate, it's a language, but you don't have to be make the world that language.

[73:05]

So what Vasubandhu is recommending is that we actually see subjectivity not as negative, the Atman, the I function, as the other side of Dharma functioning. And the more fundamental way is Dharma functioning. I can see that just as a glass in the world. Sorry? I can see this as just a glass in the world. Yeah, and... And... And I can see it as maybe my special cup or something, the cup I really like and don't want to have broken or loaned to anyone.

[74:15]

Yeah, and I can shift back and forth between those. You know, I think Suzuki Roshi expressed it when he spoke about his glasses. You know that story. He said he took off his glasses and he said, these are your glasses. And he said, but you know about my tired old eyes. So you're loaning me your glasses. But, you know, it's also true. It takes the whole of society to produce glasses. I think invented by an Italian in the 14th century.

[75:17]

And it could increase the productivity of human beings tremendously because people in their 40s could start still doing bookkeeping. So, I mean, using a phrase like just now is enough... ...allows you to have that shift from... need or subjectivity to just the way it is is the way it is. So I can think of this glass as something the whole society has provided me. You know, I didn't invent glass. So that's a more dharmic way of looking at it. Being my glass is a more subjective way of looking at it. I remember I had the experience of this very directly. When I or my daughter broke a cup I had,

[76:39]

And I think she did break a Hamada cup I had, actually. Hamada was a Japanese potter who was a kind of national treasure Japanese. And I had this cup someone had given me for my ordination. And my daughter, Sally, knocked it off the table. And I immediately immediately felt it's an opportunity to clean it up. Yeah, it was an opportunity to clean up the cup. And that clearly came from Zen practice. At that moment I realized, who wants a plastic cup that doesn't break?

[77:58]

A cup like this allows me to clean it up. allows me to have it repaired. It's quite beautifully repaired, actually. And allows the potter to make another cup. That's a more dharmic way of looking at it. But surprisingly, if you practice, even when something precious to you that someone gave to me on my ordination I only saw the cup as an activity. I didn't see it as something belonging to me. And part of its activity is cleaning it up. Getting another one. So... Somehow, if you hold these teachings in front of you, you begin to actually experience things this way.

[79:13]

Okay. Maybe we should take a break. Okay, so let's take a 10-minute break till 5. But should we continue afterwards? Of course. Oh, okay. All right. One thing we are interested in in the lecture is... to change or to supplant intention with attention, so to withdraw or dissolve my intentions or get to know them, and change them or intend them intentionally.

[80:18]

And instead of being driven by intentions, put attention into the moment, into the situation. create a mind which is open and attentive and not driven. So when I practice that with my body, intentions which are quite easy to move, or to change, or to feeling. And, of course, the feelings that this one kind of, I don't know how to deal with, these are, they come up again and again. And not only because they are somehow persistent or

[81:21]

deep-rooted, but it feels like they, whenever there's a pause, they pop up. And, like, filling in a gap which could be created, but they jump into, and these are the same three or four, they're very repetitious. And I don't know if It just needs a lot of patience. It somehow feels to me as if this is a kind of defense mechanism I don't get through. The question would be how to deal with this. Well, I think it probably would do it. Yes, what I always hear in auspicious lectures is to replace intentions with mindfulness.

[82:32]

That means to open up intentions, to make them aware and to move them. And instead of becoming mindful in the sense of hoping and not being so directed, pushed and pulled. And when I do this in my body, then I notice different things. level of intention, and one is very difficult, because it feels like a self-protection mechanism, because when a pause arises, it can always repeat itself, it is almost always the same body feeling or body part, or also further formation, or a certain thought, By the way, you started out saying what comes up repetitiously in my lectures.

[83:39]

I think you mean repeatedly. Repetitiously usually means it's quite negative, like somebody repetitiously calls me. Every five minutes they call me on the phone. Oh, sorry. I took it both ways. Well, I wouldn't say that I... I think that we should replace intention with attention. I'd say that intention and attention should go together. And wisdom intentions should be brought with some continuity or some... repeatedly into our awareness.

[84:54]

Our awareness, our activity. But views that are not really the way the world exists or views that are implied permanence, and the intentions that arise from that should be, we should have some antidotes for them. But actually, if we bring attention to an inaccurate view, the attention often corrects it. because attention, actual attention, makes it clear this is not an accurate way of looking at things.

[86:06]

But if you have an accurate or wisdom view, shall we say, attention strengthens it and develops it. Now, if you have some kind of compulsive thinking or some kind of repetitious intentions that come up, or views or attitudes, well, it does make a difference what they are. You can't generalize exactly about them. It does make a difference. It's not a generic intention. It makes a difference what they are. And if they stick around a long time, that means you're learning something about yourself.

[87:07]

Somehow they're pretty deeply rooted. So you can create antidotes in the present moment as they appear. But you can also see what nourishes them and how they're rooted and you can also see why you like the negative effect. Because usually, whatever we do, Whatever we do, whatever we are, even if it's something we hate, there's still a dimension that we want it. So we always have to look at that we have the life we want. And if we feel defeated by our life, We don't only want to be defeated.

[88:12]

But it's wise to also see how being defeated serves you. Or interfered with or whatever. And if you don't see how The negative result is something you want. You can't really effectively change anything. The hidden part is usually we want the bad result. Sagina. My question is quite similar to what Dieter said.

[89:15]

You talked a lot about pleasant, unpleasant and neither. I'm neither. And I was really fascinated by this realm of neither because this is really a realm where another reality could create itself. That's right. My difficulty is to let go of this realm of unpleasant and somehow shift this to the neither. And my feeling is the more I try to do it, the more I stick to it.

[90:27]

I keep holding to it. And it's also difficult if it concerns persons. And there are reactions coming which are feeling uncomfortable, unpleasant for me. And then it's difficult for me to get some independence from that not taking it personally. How can I make this? Yeah, I understand. Well, I think it helps to take, if you're practicing... To take an insight or recognition as a promise.

[91:33]

A promise that you'll solve the problem. But you don't know how long. I could say 99% of it is seeing the problem. Because if you don't see the problem, you can't do anything. So that's most of it. But the 1% of solving it may take the rest of your life. Or in any way, it may take some time. But what happens in that process, if you're not looking for results, if you're looking at the process? And if the process takes a long time, it's actually more fruitful than something that takes a short time. So, Like that.

[92:43]

And you have to get familiar not only with the parts of your body, but the various ways your personality and minds work together. We put ourselves down and we put ourselves up and we try this and the opposite happens and so forth. You have to kind of figure out how to negotiate all that. What's the clearer, more stable part of our functioning and of our mind? Yeah, that's possible. For example, it happens, it helps in All the psychological dimensions of Zen practice.

[93:57]

It helps to develop the skill to follow a mood or thought to its source. Or a physical feeling too, like a headache. No, when the headache first occurred, not when you first feel it. So when you know when a mood or, in Dieter's case, a train of thought or something first appears, you know when it appears. It's almost a physical sensation or some perception. And usually that's well before the actual noticing it.

[94:49]

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