I heard that a number of cars got broken into in our hotel garage. Anybody from here? Just one person? Oh, dear. So they're probably at the police station or something. Giving a police report. The police was in the house. What? The police was there. Were there? The policeman in the hotel. Yeah, Billy. It's not him? It's Billy. Okay. Sylvie. Sylvia? Yeah. Yeah. That's terrible. When I went down, there was broken glass everywhere, and somebody's car from Belgium had taken all their traveling stuff. I feel somewhat responsible, because this came to this seminar, but I don't know what I could do about it. So you were in a hotel, in a deep garage, and a few cars broke in, also from the CV. And... That's always disturbing. Okay, anything you'd like to bring up from your discussion yesterday?

[01:03]

And the general feeling I have is that it's not so easy to feel time as the activity of your body. Yes. So the answer that was sort of below our subtext to our discussion. How can we put this, which we received in words, transformed this into a lived experience and not a kind of intellectual experience. So we started and everybody in the round said what they themselves wanted to say about this topic.

[02:48]

We didn't really discuss it, but everyone just spoke from their point of view. Then we got to the point that mindfulness is a key point. And in this seminar, especially for me, when you mentioned mindfulness both as a kind of tool and as a skill, It got inside of me more clear how endlessly important this is. And then for me it's the question, how do I get from bored consciousness into immediate consciousness?

[04:04]

How one notices, that seems to me one of the main points. Yeah, mindfulness is a skill, especially in the density of mindfulness. It's like... Mindfulness is a skill? Skill in the sense that it's experienced as an increasing density, as if you could look deeper and deeper into the water. And what interests me in this is that I think we all do this already, know the body as time. Or we live the body as time to some extent.

[05:09]

But when we notice it, that's a big difference. And that's one of the things I'm trying to do And this is one of the things that I am trying to do here. Make us notice what we do. Like noticing borrowed mind distinction. Okay, someone else? Yes. I think that it is decisive with which mental guidance I think it's very determining with what mental attitude you engage with this If I have this sequential flowing time as a concept then that's what I experience

[06:23]

Yeah, that's right. But a different concept, like time appears or time is coming towards me, then I can also experience it that way. And if I have the concept that I can physically experience time also as space, then I will experience it that way. Yeah. Conception is prior to perception. As I thought, the example I use often is if you assume that space separates, that's what you will perceive.

[07:48]

If you assume Prior to perception, if the conception is space connects, then that's what you can start to perceive. Because perception is an editing process. I think Nietzsche was the first Western philosopher to really recognize that. By the way, congratulations on that totally sweet, beautiful baby who's so friendly.

[08:50]

It came right up to the sheen. Yeah, I know. I remember I got this picture of you, my gosh. Now the baby. Okay. Yes. So this morning I noticed that all night long I was incubating this topic. So I'm asking myself, where in myself can I perceive this and what does it do to me? And there are two personality types maybe. They show me where I am with my bodily time.

[10:02]

They react to that. And the and also demented people. And with that I have similar experience. It is physical time. So I can really feel this is a bodily time. Yes, dear.

[11:09]

What for me has been central in our discussion is this bodily time. I would like to say it together, but if I take a break, then I will end the questions. is that for us it is also a very natural thing to be able to interact. So actually it is simple and that it not only gives us information about what is going on with me, but that it also receives information. Oh, no, not so really. I can try. To me it was a special point that it's really something very natural to be in the body time.

[12:34]

And when I am, then I do only percept information about me and the body, but I'm also able to receive information from the surrounding. when we are in this moment, to be in contact with others in this mood, in this state, there's something like to be ashamed. It's ashamed? To be ashamed? No, we have that topic too. To feel a certain kind of ashamedness that you're in this state. Oh, really? Because it's so new, it's so human, it's so intimate to meet somebody Like this? It can sometimes be misunderstood. I'm just being Buddhist. Oh, you're cute. And maybe that's what babies don't have.

[13:42]

Seriously. He shows me that. Dogen actually says that. Animals, cats, he says, often understand. Thanks. Thanks. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. The people are all in conversation with the time.

[14:56]

And in contrast to you, I felt that all my senses were awake. And I could just sit there and pick up someone in my time. And it was wonderful. I thought it was my first time where I knew it was coming. and the faith did not come, and then I lost this feeling, this feeling, and then I was very surprised that the faith came and I could just sit. Yes, good. But it was good for me that you said that you could sit, It took me a long time to get to see that. I always thought perception came first, but I kept noticing it doesn't. Yes. Reinhardt. Reinhardt. Okay.

[16:17]

I take this up and I remember the way in which my daughter was very active in learning this time that we take as time. I know that she simply I had no idea about the sequence of time, about before and after. It was always the same. That was a big problem for them in school. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She doesn't want to stay after tomorrow.

[17:23]

I'm a little like that actually. This is a problem. Oh, I'm so sorry. I hear your car got broken into. Was anything important stolen? Well, nothing. It's a terrible nuisance. Disturbing. The first time you've been robbed, I bet. Yeah, it's not nice. It's happened to me a few times. Okay, you had to give a police report or something like that? Yeah, we did, and we just brought the car to leave. Were you repaired and stuff?

[18:23]

I feel a little responsible, since you're here. Okay, so your daughter now is beginning to... Yes, with a lot of help they managed to come to terms with it. But until today it is difficult for them to know what is left over. And I was very helpless, very alone. Is she able to go to school and everything? Yes, with the help of other people. No matter what the insights and wisdom of Buddhism are, you still have to be able to function within the frame of most people's consciousness.

[19:30]

Samadhi is a word which assumes you can step out of that, but you also have to be able to live in most people's consciousness. Samadhi is a word that means that you can step out of this environment, but it also means that you can also participate in this normal environment. Someone else? Yes? It's a sin. There are so many different objects of perception, traces, and friends.

[20:54]

And you always point to the web, don't you? My teachers told me that there is only a sense body in karate. How I feel and how it works for me, I can't deny. Sometimes I can hide it, and I realize, ah, it's nothing. You can hide something, and I say, oh, well, I don't know everything. And in, for example, professional life, you have to be professional. You don't have to show what you can do, but you have to do your job. And that's how my life is, too. And then I decided, one and a half years ago, An old friend. Maybe that was a good decision. But, you know, insight... Often is followed by sadness.

[22:17]

And often precedes insight. Comes before insight. A personal sadness, but also a sadness just about how the world is. Yeah. I wanted to say that I have the feeling that there is a connection between time and space. When I have the feeling that there is a connection between time and space, then I am automatically in this simultaneous time. Well, I think that when you shift, I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I'm not sure we're ready to look at this yet.

[23:24]

Well, I think that when you shift, I'm getting ahead of myself here, But when you shift or can make the shift from simultaneous time or timelessness, a feeling of timelessness, a feeling of time staying and not flowing, In contrast to temporal time, I call it temporal time in my mind, simultaneous time has a depth, and flowing time or clock time has a thinness. And you feel with simultaneous time you can look into the depth, the simultaneity of things.

[24:41]

And that also becomes an experience of space. So it's experientially virtually the same when you experience things in this time as staying. That's my experience. It's the same experience of what are the two things? Space and time are experienced as Aspects of each other. Yeah. Someone else. Yes. Well, they're happy you're joining them around the production.

[25:59]

What did they have to learn? What did they have to learn? The sameness or difference. Perceiving it. To notice. To see difference. Two of creation. Or both. Practice in the most fundamental sense is an apprenticeship.

[27:00]

And it has very little to do with understanding or learning. I mean, you can, I mean, just an extreme example, but you can study very carefully how Stradivarius violins are made. But nobody but Stradivarius and his... protégés can really make a violin like that. It's some kind of minute bodily metabolic adjustment. It's simply not about, up to a certain point it's about learning.

[28:34]

But in the end it's about meeting and speaking and the meeting usually over about a 10 year period. Yeah, that's why I'm so grateful to be practicing with so many of you for so long. And it's also, though, my deep wondering whether an adept lay sangha can transmit the Dharma. Because there's no question in my mind that we have an adept lay sangha. And understanding is a kind of like an opening that allows you to function through practice. But whether that can be so thoroughly internalized and externalized by numbers of people together so that it's transmitted, I don't know.

[30:00]

I'm just beating my head against the wall. But it's not a bad wall. Oh, yes. I had a conversation yesterday about this direction, about our perception and feeling. I also have an example where we... Yes, a seminar of over 20 years ago caught my attention, where, in my opinion, one sentence today is as if it opens up again, or again opens up to a different quality, or depth, or extent. And it is a physical process. So I also notice that I am there, where I automatically determine, when I go.

[31:04]

because we've been walking together for some years. Doesn't seem as if I've been practicing for such a long time. That might be starting to work. Well, I think, I would say that at least historically, who knows for sure, but this, what we're doing here, weaving lay life and Residential practice life.

[32:06]

We don't have a word for residential practice. But it sounds so like holy moly. That's what Captain Marvel said. Holy moly. As it is a Because if we say monastery, it sounds like, you know, like a nun going around with her rosary. If we say residential... She went to Catholic boarding schools. So for me, I don't have this feeling this monastery, so it's the right word.

[33:20]

A cloister. Cloister. Cloisterly. Cloisterly. Yeah, but in English, it doesn't work, cloister. Yeah, there's something about close being close a little. Yeah, I know, I know, but... Cloister really in English means locked up. Like some nunneries that can't ever leave, you know, that's cloister. I had an aunt like that. All right, let me say a couple things and then let's take a break. Because you've been pressling your legs for long enough. Many aspects of our practice and of Zen practice stump me.

[34:23]

When you're stumped, you can't think of what to do. There's actually a sense story about a guy who comes home, is on his way home, and as he's coming home, a rabbit comes by and runs into a tree stump. So he takes the rabbit home and they have a wonderful dinner, he and his wife. Yeah. And so the next day his wife can't find him and finally she goes out and looks and there he is sitting on the tree stump waiting for another rabbit to run into him. Nächsten Tag sucht die Frau ihn, findet ihn nicht, da dann sieht sie ihn, wie er auf dem Baumstumpf sitzt und darauf wartet, dass da wieder Kaninchen abkommen.

[35:38]

Waiting for suitcase to run into my tree stump over and over again, you know. So instead I had to wait until Gerald ran into it. You ran into it. Diesler, this isn't... But one of the things that has stumped me is... How the heck does Zen get away with not doing anything? Just sit there. Now, Zen practice in general is a mixture of Majjamaka, Yogacara, and YN teachings. And in another sense, when you look at it, Zen is the most Theravadan of the Mahayana schools.

[36:53]

But so in the sense of the degree to which the craft of practice is emphasized. But conceptually Zen is very tantric. And how does this come together? Well, it's not an accident that Tibetan Dzogchen and Mahamudra, but primarily more Dzogchen, are very similar to Zen. So Zen is somewhat unique in the degree to which they emphasize meditation. And it's certainly unique in the degree to which it emphasizes non-corrected or non-thinking, non-structured meditation.

[38:04]

Dogen hardly gave any specific meditation instructions. His basic instructions, sit down, see what happens. But that see what happens, there's the rub. And so Zen is also, I think, unique in the degree to which it uses turning words or wados. In your daily activity. In weaving these wisdom phrases into your thinking.

[39:19]

Into your mental activity. And I would say Zen is also unique in that Buddha is the starting point but not the end point. And I think the using of wisdom phrases in your daily mental and physical activity is one of the definitive aspects of us as a lay adept Sangha. So in every seminar I'm trying to put this together in some way that we can share this practice. So let's start again after the break.

[40:30]

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