Good morning. Good morning. So what's happening? What's going on? What's going on? Okay. So I want to continue with the reports. Please, yes, you're ready. I would like to report some of the findings of group number three. Even though that might have changed overnight. Probably, yes. What is the body? There was a wide understanding that the body is some kind of vessel. Even though today I would rather say it's an activity of vesseling or it vessels or it bodies. Our mastery or our craft is also through Zazen.

[01:03]

to focus our attention on this activity of vesseling or of bodying. Our task or our art or our craft is to observe this body. Everything else, thoughts, feelings, inspirations, intuition comes from somewhere and it just depends if our vessel is that receptive to receive it, to hold it, to process it and to leave it properly. The second aspect we talked about was the concept of flow, like Mihaj Csikszentmihalyi developed it and the more we body as a verb now or the more we vessel, the more we are probably able to experience flow individually or also as a collective somatic field that we also experienced in our group yesterday.

[03:04]

We had some accounts of people who said that when they play music, we have two professional musicians in the group three, they said, well, of course, first there is discipline, you have to learn it. It's like in Zazen probably, a posture here and there. But then when you let loose and when you completely be at service for whatever happens, then flow throughout. Mm-hmm. giving your body or surrendering your body might occur. We had two professional musicians in our group who also told us that they experienced this flow experience after hard training, discipline, where maybe there was not much joy, but then they put themselves completely into the service and then it just happened. Third idea was when you said yesterday something about love and bodily liveliness or something.

[04:19]

The Zen might be this love without the object. So when you love, you probably feel your complete body, every cell, you are completely alive. but you confuse it that it needs an object for that, and Sazanne is taking this object away and still being aware and being, and vesseling or bodying in the complete sense. Okay, yeah. That sounds like a group I would have enjoyed being in. Okay, who's next? Yeah, okay. We started out with kind of a statement which we used about this weekend, that actually, yeah, the whole space, the whole universe is our body, and that in a way,

[05:27]

our view of the world is contained in this body, in the perception of this body. And from there we got to the factor of ease, to be at ease and relaxed, and then to perceive this, to be able to experience this, we need to be at ease in a way, to be relaxed enough. We started with a statement that was often heard, that the whole space, the whole world is our body or our spirit. that the way we look at the world is very determined by the way we experience our body. And from there we are a bit on the tip of the iceberg.

[06:37]

You kind of made a big circle and ended where we started. by trying to define what actually is this body, what are we actually talking about. There was the statement from one person in the group that she actually could not define it. It's more like a really moment-to-moment experience that there was no word or no. In a way, there was the statement that words can't reach it. That was the feeling. that also this experience of being this body, being alive in this body is kind of changing so quickly, so swiftly, it's hard to name it in a way.

[07:52]

And we ended up at the end, where we started, with the attempt to define this body in some form or experience from this body. And we couldn't really do it. And a member of the group said, for her it's actually more of an eye-to-eye experience and an experience. And it would be almost impossible to really to define or to pour the words. And that sometimes the experience of the body and all the sensations in it would change so quickly that it would hardly be possible So in the middle there were some expressions of practice this weekend in general. There was one point that a member of the group said she is actually feeling or experiencing this physical body best when she also is expressing herself fully.

[09:25]

So there is an activity which is kind of done as fully as possible, so that she could experience her body in place. It was kind of close to that statement by one member of the group. He did a lot of skiing when he was younger. I actually don't know, maybe he's still skiing. And he had kind of the same experience that when he completely dived into just skiing, it felt like that, when he was more with the whole experience of mountains and snow. In the middle of this story that you have told me, there were different statements about the practice and about the body, a statement that the body, the physical body, is best experienced when one is relatively fully engaged in activity, when one does something and is completely engaged in it.

[10:42]

And another person said that they also have this experience Then we also came to the point stick with the rhythm. The next point was that, kind of in connection to Paul and his statement the other day, the experience of monastic or institutional practice, and there is, yeah, huge power in especially practicing together in a group and this person felt that there was an increase of energy and on the other side more lightness in her practice while she did that domestic practice.

[12:00]

One point was that someone said that her experience of the monastery practice continued. The practice in the group was very supportive and gave her a lot of strength and on the other hand made it much easier to follow the practice. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. So we've got four, two more to go. In our group, we studied thermal cinema.

[13:08]

David talked yesterday. So, with the concept of the body, as we should learn in this culture, the body is a scandal. But as soon as we collected experiences of or body experiences, it became clear that the body cannot be viewed only as an object or a content of your observation, that it is also at the same time a function or the medium, you might say, theory. through which you experience your surroundings and through which you also experience your concepts or the basis of which you build your concepts.

[14:11]

I want that to be clear. The boundaries which are conceptional quickly fall away and Some people, one person said that this falling away of the boundary is sometimes taking place to the extent where it becomes fearful because the integration, reintegration into the so-called normal feeling or usual feeling of identity or self is also threatened. And we talked a bit about concepts of integration, if you have a picture of the stealth as a whole where everything has to click in somehow.

[15:20]

Or if you start off with a picture where different experiences can stand next to each other without necessarily form a continuous whole. But no, it's a different question. German? So we have an image, as David told us yesterday, that the body is used as an object, as an object that can be observed. And then you have to get to the image very quickly that the body is a kind of medium through which you are taught. And then it becomes clear that this experience is actually the basis for this concept of the mouth.

[16:22]

And that this experience is about the mouth. And then, for example, when you wake up from something, it can be observed very intensely and the body simply disappears as an object. We then came to the conclusion that we had gained experience, that we had gained experience, that we had achieved something. And one person said that this falling away from the limits and the internal experience sometimes leads to a fear of no longer integrating into the ordinary self, the identity, the ordinary identity. a kind of threat.

[17:24]

And then we briefly talked about integration and about the model and a self that fits into all of this, that it encompasses all of this, that everything becomes a harmonious whole, and then another possibility would be that experiences simply have a uniqueness and also Okay, thank you. One more. It's the English speaking group, right? Yes. Great, okay. In our group, someone told me that the body, before it started to practice, felt like it was sitting in an airplane.

[18:26]

And I was still looking outside at the plane and I saw an arm and said, oh, there's an arm. So some person described his body image or feeling before he started practicing. And he had compared it to an airplane. So he's sitting in there and looking out and seeing the wings of the plane. It's actually his hands. And through his zazen experience he started more and more to perceive his body from the inside and it also increased the volume. Not sound, but space. And the wings shrunk. And that was the transition from having a body to being a body.

[19:40]

Someone else said the body felt from the inside like a collection or accumulation of feelings. We said that the body is an illusion, which is somehow to our... Then in addition to this idea or perception that the body increases in volume or when you sit, that this is actually also like a, it's perceived like a space and that would come back to somehow this body space or something like what the seminar said. And that this space is not solid, but moves in a twofold way.

[21:11]

That it can go from the narrow to the wide and from the wide to the narrow. That this is a diffuse movement. So we also said that this space of the body is not something fix it can move but it moves in a diffuser and way so it can just go wide or and expand or it can also go narrow again it can go either way And the other way it kind of moves is that in certain activities it's widened. Under some other circumstances it almost vanishes and slips out of the attention.

[22:15]

Yes, and the people have given examples that they are not particularly under the pressure of time, for example, that this feeling of the body and the connection with this feeling of the body disengages them. And people gave examples for when they feel those differences. For instance, if they're under pressure of time, then they lose this connection with this wider body and it kind of slips out of there. I felt that the feeling that the body has a different time exists in a different time than, for example, the thinking consciousness with which we do many tasks in our lives. So that came to the idea that maybe this felt body lives in a different time and it doesn't live in the same time as thinking or discursive thoughts where you have to solve certain problems by thinking.

[23:22]

That was good. Good. They're so wise, all of us. Yes. I'd like to add something to that group. We also said that a new space is created when two people meet, or when we're together in a group here, or when with focus you observe or connect with an object or plant or something like that. I'd like to give an example how important the attention is to the perception of the body.

[24:36]

I do work with children who have perceptual disorders. In this summer I had a new student or a child and I did draw feet with him and it counted toes and things. And when he had to make a drawing last week, he painted five fingers on each hand and five toes on each foot. He said, I've done that the very first time in my life. Great. Yeah. I would like to say something about the group that fasted together yesterday.

[26:05]

What do you do when you can't stand up at all? I'd like to add something to the group of Gerhard. I thought, what is happening if we really detest somebody? So maybe we can try to observe this feeling of dislike just the same way as you said one can do with observing the anger. And so we create a distance to the dislike and establish a relationship, as Roger explained, and then also take it away from the person a little bit.

[27:21]

It becomes more of an objective subject. So then by observing this, you create this relationship to it. And then you can kind of take this a little bit away from that person and can just observe this feeling it might turn like into an object or a subjective like object. And then we came to see that by having created this observing space of this feeling, then you can be generous, have discipline and patience.

[28:30]

But if you, without having that relationship or space, you cannot tell yourself, I'm going to be generous. Something doesn't really work. Yeah. Yes. same matter, I understood it for myself differently, the same aspect. You were in the same group, yes. Maybe the outcome is similar. If something is bodily disturbing, like the presence of one person, or it goes with another person, first it is true, my body doesn't like it, it's some kind of fact and then if I stay with the perception of this unpleasant feeling like a smell or just like some rigidity or whatever it is

[29:37]

Then usually I feel it happens that there are so many mind, conscious senses coming up, I don't like it, I need to go away from it, this rejection. And this is for me the most, I feel it by now also, because I imagine a situation, this is the most suffering. It is not so much the perception itself, the bodily perception. When I'm next to a person and I don't feel my body, it's uncomfortable. It's a bit high or there's a firmness in my body or whatever. I just felt it again when I imagined it. This wish to escape or whatever reaction has come.

[30:42]

And if I reduce to relieve the sensation itself, then maybe I have a chance to change something. If I just stick to my perceptions, then I might have this possibility. Yesterday I was thinking a lot about this. Dogen said there is no mind without a body. Dogen, did he say that? Maybe he did. Yeah, he said that. I forget whether I said it or Dogen said it. During the day, and I thought first, ah, is this true?

[32:02]

How can he say this? Maybe he can say the mind is not limited to the body or you need a body to have... to become aware of the mind and then when you were talking yesterday evening about this body as an experience without boundaries and being the whole world then I got some feeling what it means something like this and when you were Talking about the way you were talking about it and the joy you would... I felt so in you talking about this, I felt it induces something in me and something comes of this flowing aliveness and love, and I feel I would like to hear more about this.

[33:03]

Deutsch, bitte. Yesterday, during the day, I was always busy with this sentence by Dogen. There is no spirit without a body. And at first I thought, how can he say that? Is that true? Is it no longer the case that you can say, okay, the mind is not limited to the body, or I need a body to be practically aware of the mind, and as Rosé spoke in the evening about the body as an experience where there are no more limits, which simply contains everything, Well, I think that what Judita said and what you said is so important or quite important for us because it challenges our, as we practice, we hold in mind the image or the possibility of bodhisattva.

[34:35]

And the image of a bodhisattva almost accompanies us while we do things. The precepts accompany us. when we've taken them and hold them in our activity. But then we find we actually really don't like some people or certain people. Now there's also the conviction that a deeply disturbed person, a schizophrenic person or something like that, comes into a group, everybody feels it.

[35:45]

Everyone feels disturbed by this person. Yes, a completely disturbed, anxious, distracted person. On the other hand, if a person who is the opposite of that comes into a group, The Bodhisattva or something, a calm, undistracted, at ease person. It also, that person also affects the whole group. Okay. So there's some situations where, I'm just saying that, because there's some situations where it's quite legitimate to be disturbed or nervous, and then you have to, then what do you have to do?

[36:56]

Well, more or less it's part of what I will try to say. Yeah, in relationship to a person that you have some history with or some kind of aversion to for some reason. And it's clear that we have, you know, also... kind of a genetic basis for caring about some people in ways we don't care about others. As it's been shown that we aren't attracted to a person who has DNA like our spouse of the opposite sex.

[38:12]

I couldn't accept that. We're not attracted to a person who has a DNA similar to a person of the opposite sex. In other words, you're not going to be attracted to somebody who has DNA like your father. Huh? It's somehow programmed that you... So all I'm saying is there's a lot of landscape here between us. Okay. Now, one way is to imagine, say that you're the particular person you don't like.

[39:30]

I'm just giving you some ideas. You imagine them as a baby. Because most of us like babies. So you create an image of that person as a baby. You think, well, I, yeah. Sweet kid. Sometimes she can play with it and take him up to five years old, seven years old, and then at some point dislikes it. We like most babies. We don't like most adults. Or we often don't like them. What happens? But it's interesting, if you do create an image of the person as a baby, And you also have the image of them, experience of them as an adult.

[40:41]

You almost create a kind of Bart Hellinger inner constellation. And you can begin to feel what that baby needed to not have become that adult. Yeah. And sometimes then you can find a territory to speak to the person that's quite, you know, a territory they're not usually spoken to because they don't allow themselves to be spoken to that way. Then you can find an area where you can talk to this person, an area through which this person is never addressed, because this person would not allow this area in general.

[41:45]

I'm trying to make this short, so I'll see if I can, because we should take a break soon. Okay, now, one of the things we also do in practice is we change our body image. I don't know what else to say. Yeah, so we change our body image in the sense that, I'm speaking now, that we do things, it's a practice, from the hara. Yeah. We're not supported too much in doing that. For instance, in Japanese and cultures which move from here, they often design their clothes which require them to walk from here.

[43:02]

Also japanische Kultur zum Beispiel, die unterstützt das. Die laufen auch von hier aus und die haben Kleider entworfen, die diese Art des Gehens unterstützen. And they belt themselves around the hips rather than belt themselves around the waist. Und sie haben ihren Gürtel über die Hüften im Gegensatz zum Gürtel in der Taille. And they have shoes which require you to slide in them rather than walk in them in the usual way. Yeah, so we can't change our whole way of dress, but I always say you can walk up to the refrigerator and open the refrigerator from the horror. Hey, refrigerator. The point I'm making is that you can relate to the other person, because we Westerners tend to walk from somewhere in here. We do that, aren't we?

[44:03]

I sat in a restaurant in Kassel. Must have been Kassel. And there were Japanese people, Chinese people. Indian waiters and, you know, us ordinary, if I can say us, German folks. Or Austrian folks. And I tried to not look at their face, just look at their legs from here. And I could tell... from just how they walked, where they came from. The hardest was to tell the Indians, because they have a mix. Then I tried, without looking at their faces, to only look at their legs, spying on them, to test if I could tell where they were coming from. And it was very clear, you could only see it on their legs, where they came from, the way they walked. Only with the Indians it was a bit more difficult, because they had a kind of mixed...

[45:24]

No, this is actually Berlin. Because I was left at this hotel several hours before my room was available, so I just sat there. But if you can find a way to relate to a person in the 90% of them as body, actions, stuff, and not personality, if you get in the habit of doing that with everyone, It's much easier to not lock into the personality and personal history. Yeah, and something I'm trying to work on these days, find a way to express and practice with you.

[46:31]

In the difference between the alaya-vijjana as a pool and memory as a text. Or the difference again between an oral... Pool, like a little lake. Or in a parallel sense, a difference between an oral culture and a... text-based culture. Because from the way the Alaya-Vijjana works, which is like the way associations work in an oral culture,

[47:34]

You don't arrive in each situation with a text We are almost like two texts meeting all the time I'm this kind of person I have a certain profession. I dress a certain way. I have a certain level of education. And people like me sometimes and sometimes they don't. Then you meet someone. They have a certain level of education. Right. They have a certain history.

[48:45]

Yeah, sometimes they like me, sometimes... This is two texts meeting. Yeah. But really, through practice and through this sense of associations as the Alaya Vijnana... the sense of practice through the alaya-vijnana. And to really make this clear, we need three more seminars. And even then, but anyway. But you can tell when this has happened through practice or is happening through practice, When you tend to meet people without any history at all. You meet a person, a person you've known and just had a fight with, and it's like you've met them for the first time.

[49:55]

Or you can turn a switch, and it's like that. It's just a person you're with. There's no history involved. And you have no history with them at all. You're making history at that moment. The immediacy of a situation is so much more full of aliveness and energy than anything you remember. And you're so used to living in that immediacy I give an example. Simple example. As I've said before. You're lost in the woods.

[50:56]

And you've been lost in the woods. It's freezing cold and you're wet to the skin and it's three hours. You don't know how the hell to get out of this. Und ihr habt keinen Dunst, wie ihr aus diesem Wald herauskommen sollt. Ein Mensch in der Entfernung. Du bist so erfreut, diesen Menschen zu sehen. Und dann schaut ihr genauer hin und sagt, also von dem würde ich nie einen Ratschlag annehmen. You just don't, oh, I usually don't like you, but I'm very happy you're here. And the last of the sort of techniques is to know how to seal yourself and not armor yourself. To be able to seal yourself and yet enter into another space, say a deeply disturbed person.

[52:11]

Yeah, that's enough for now. And I'd like to... I think we have some work to do today. So lunch will be at three. Well, anyway, we'll have a break now.

[52:36]

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