Good evening, everyone. Tonight I'm going to talk about a story, I'll start at least with a story from Dongshan, who is said to have compiled this song of the Precious Mary Samadhi we just chanted, and who is considered the founder of the Cao Dong or Soto lineage in China. He lived, I think it's 807 to 869. Anyway, he lived in 9th century China. And he's kind of, as Dogen is the founder of our tradition and lineage in Japan, he's the founder in China and a very important figure. And so the story, which is included in the Blue Cliff Record koan collection is Case 43. A monk once asked Dongshan, how does one escape hot and cold? Dongshan replied, why not go where there is no hot or cold?

[01:03]

So at Dongshan's monastery up in the mountains in China, it probably got very cold in the winter and may have gotten very hot in the summer. And I think of this as a Chicago koan because we know about hot and cold. Anyway, Dongshan said, why don't you go where there's neither hot nor cold? The monk asked where that place was. And Dongshan said, when it's cold, freeze to death. When it's hot, burn to death. So that's the story. And I want to talk about it on a few levels. I certainly won't exhaust it, but it's basically a story about going, about how practice is about going beyond our comfort zone. How practice demands us to go to this place beyond hot or cold, to this place that's beyond our normal, conventional, ordinary way of seeing the world and of being.

[02:10]

So, you know, we have, as human beings, lots of limitations. There's a very, actually a very narrow range of temperatures in which we are comfortable. Of course, some humans have managed to find a place to live in the Arctic zones where it's very cold. Some humans have managed to find a way to live in the tropics where it's very, very hot. So there's some range, but it's really kind of limited. Our physical perceptions, our physical capabilities are limited. Our intellectual capabilities are very limited. Just for example, dogs have hearing and smell, and they can hear and smell things that we can't. So part of this is the limitation of human beings.

[03:18]

And in what ways can we go beyond our limitations? How can we transcend self and see this dharma of suchness, which Dongshan speaks about at the beginning of the Precious Mirror Samadhi? So I want to talk about this in a couple of ways. First, psychologically, and then also literally in terms of temperature and climate. But, you know, we could see this story as about our emotions. So it may be that this monk was less concerned with physical heat and cold than he was with his emotional heat and cold. So there's the heat of intensity and intensity of passions, of lust or rage, obsessiveness around those. And, yeah, these negative, afflictive emotions get us, you know, this heat, this inner heat that we may feel.

[04:22]

And we may try to resist that or get over that by going to a place of coldness, of uncaring, of indifference. And so neither of those are the way. Neither of those are the place beyond hot or cold. So how do we deal with our own inner heat, our own inner coldness when those come up? That's part of the story. And Zazen, Buddhist practice, is in many ways about going beyond our passions or our coldness. And this has to do with studying the self. So Dogen later said to study the way is to study the self. And this is kind of unavoidable in Zazen.

[05:23]

You know, we see our own patterns of grasping, of desire. We see our own patterns of anger and aversion and how we react to those. So this is part of this cold and heat. And through Zazen, we start to become familiar with these patterns. So, you know, greed, hate and delusion are the basic poisons in Buddhism, the basic problems that lead us into suffering. And how can we not get caught by those negative emotions? Part of it is becoming familiar with our own patterns of greed, hate and confusion. So sitting in Zazen and doing this over time, we can become familiar and intimate with these.

[06:26]

And excuse me, I have a creature who is wanting to get out of the room. Excuse me, I'll be right back. So my cat often sits in Zazen with me. And I could have made her just keep standing at the door, dealing with her desire to go somewhere else. You know, and we all have that. We all want to be somewhere else sometimes. And, you know, I could have just left her there to sit, but it might have been distracting to you. So we become familiar with ourself and our own patterns of heat, passion, desire, our own patterns of coldness and uncaring.

[07:30]

And, you know, the point of this, one point of this koan is to find the way in between that. So when it's hot, the heat kills you. When it's cold, the cold kills you. And one way to hear the story is about how we kill or, you know, I don't have to use that kind of aggressive language, but get over this small self, the ego self that is always looking for comfort, always wanting to be, you know, have all the things we think we need to, you know, fit in with our consumerist society where we want more and more or to fit in with our society that has tribalism and hatred and, you know, can unfortunately harbor ill will against those kind of people.

[08:32]

You know, this is, these are basic problems. But I also want to talk about this literally, this story literally about heat and cold and how it applies to our current situation of climate damage and how we can practice with that. And I'll come back to this, but I think this pandemic we're maybe starting to emerge from has been a kind of gift because it radically has transformed our sense of our ordinary way of life. To whatever extent you've been quarantined over the last 14 months, that's a pretty radical change in how we live. So we've all had to adjust in various ways, our just sense of ordinary daily everyday life as human beings.

[09:36]

But part of what this heat and cold and the climate breakdown that is happening is going to mandate for us is that we have to change our way of being human beings as a species. So this is also going beyond hot or cold. So this talk is partly following up on the talk yesterday morning by one Pablo Restrepo who joins us sometimes from Patagonia in Argentina and was talking about climate damage and what's happening to the planet because of human activity. So when that talk is available on our website, I encourage you to listen to it. So again, what is an appropriate response to this difficulty that's happening clearly in the world?

[10:39]

I mean, it's happening, you know, fires in California, storms and sea levels rising on the East Coast, perhaps drought and our food sources affected, you know, in the coming years and the soon coming years, even here in the Midwest. And we have people from some distance here with us. Hi, Amina, it's good to see you again. And Joe is here from Florida. So, you know, it's this is something we have to have to face what's going on on the planet. And what is an appropriate response? So one thing that is not an appropriate response is that there is this sense, just looking at the science and how drastically things are going to change, that we are doomed.

[11:44]

That as humanity is, you know, we're in the middle of a mass extinction and that's happening. Many species are going extinct. And some people are encouraging us to say, well, you know, there's nothing we can do. We are doomed. Climate damage will, you know, do us in. That defeatism is just a new version of climate denial. Pretending that the climate damage doesn't exist, that sense of doomsday is encouraged by the fossil fuel corporations who want us to just, you know, not to do it, not to do anything to change this. So various ways to talk about this. How do we face reality? How do we respond appropriately to reality? And as I've mentioned to some people, I recently taught a course in the early Chinese Buddhist text,

[12:51]

The Awakening of Mahayana Faith, which brings together some Indian teachings. And it's really one of the starting points of Chinese, and that is to say, all of East Asian Buddhism. It addresses what's sometimes called the Tathagatagarbha in Sanskrit, or we could see that as Buddha nature. And it also includes alaya-vijnana or the Yogacara teachings of mind. But the thing that caught me the most in it is that it talks about four refuges. We usually take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. But in this text, there's a place where it talks about four faiths. It doesn't say refuges, but it's really basically the same, because the second, third, and fourth faiths, things to take faith in, things to, and take refuge in, are Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. But first, it says suchness, to have faith in suchness, to take refuge in suchness.

[13:57]

And Dongshan's Precious Mirror Samadhi starts, the Dharma of suchness is intimately communicated by Buddhism ancestors. Now you have it, preserve it well, take good care of it. So suchness is something that's always here. Suchness is the way things is. Suchness is, well, it's reality. But it's reality seen as, you know, kind of incorporating Buddha nature, incorporating awakeness, incorporating awareness of the psychological, to put it that way, aspects of our reality that I was talking about before in terms of greed, hate, and delusion and how we face those. So take refuge in suchness, then we can take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. So what is happening with climate breakdown?

[14:57]

I want to quote something that wasn't something that Juan Pablo read in his talk yesterday morning, but it's something he sent me about the realities of what's happening to our world. You know, there's this other koan we've talked about. What do you call the world? What is our planet? So I'm just going to read something. Earth's mightiest forces have forsaken geological time and now change on a human scale. Changes that previously took 100,000 years now happen in 100. Such speed is mythological. It affects all life on earth, affects the roots of everything we think, choose, produce, and believe. It affects everyone we know, everyone we love. We are confronted by changes that are more complex than most of what our minds typically deal with. The changes that are happening are hard for us to really get our minds around.

[15:59]

These changes surpass any of our previous experiences, surpass most of the language and metaphors we use to navigate our reality. So the kind of changes that are happening, you know, the various theories that scholars, philosophers, scientists have about this change that is happening to the planet in what we used to think of as geological time, but the changes in the nature of the ocean, of the atmosphere, of the land that are happening due to human actions. And Juan Pablo talked about one way of seeing this that happened starting in 1950 when I was born. So just in the last 70 years, starting with just the explosion of technology that happened after World War II,

[17:04]

the acceleration of geological change, the change in the oceans and so forth, the change in the atmosphere is happening in such a way that we are going to be reaching levels of carbon dioxide in the foreseeable future, probably in our lifetimes that haven't existed on our planet for millions of years or hundreds of thousands of years at least. This is mind boggling and scary. So, yeah, it's easy to try and ignore it, to deny it's happening or to think, well, there's nothing we can do about it. But I think we have to find our way of practicing this. And as I said before, I think this COVID pandemic was a way of preparing us for that, in a way, that we've seen that we can radically change how we function and live.

[18:12]

And, you know, how that's going to happen in the future will be different than what happened in the last year. But it's something that's possible. So we have to change our way of being human beings. It's not something that, you know, we decide to do. It's something that's going to be forced on us the way that the pandemic was. But there are things that can, it doesn't mean that our species is doomed. There are things that can be done. And there are changes that are happening that will mitigate some of this damage. So alternative energy is now economically more feasible than fossil fuels or nuclear power, which is really dangerous and also damaging to the environment.

[19:16]

But all the alternative energy systems have been developing. And there are countries and times when whole countries have relied on that. And so it's feasible scientifically. It's feasible economically. What we have to do is make the changes politically, to use that word, which we don't like, and to change our way of seeing things. And this is in some ways what our practice is about. So part of the change that has to happen is to see reality in a way that's not based on consumerism. We're all consumers, as we were talking about yesterday. We are all caught up in wanting things. And we're all just by virtue of electricity and using computers and all of that.

[20:23]

We have been consuming. But how do we change the way that works? So there are things that we can do ourselves individually, but also there are massive things that have to be changed in terms of how the human species functions and works. But these are possible. And part of what we need to do is change how we think about reality. So looking at these old Buddhist teachings from Dongshan and Dogen and so forth, when we really get into them, they're about how the world is alive. Now, science is showing that trees have intelligence. Octopuses have intelligence or awareness and can adapt and communicate between different species.

[21:24]

We're used to thinking of the world as a bunch of dead objects that we can exploit. We have to change how we see reality. We have to see the richness of suchness. Just changing people's minds and hearts about how the world is, is a big part of what needs to happen. And that's what our practice is about, too. So really taking on the place beyond heat and cold is a way to appropriately respond to what needs to happen. Another part of it, and I'm borrowing from Joanna Macy's way of talking about the Great Turning, is to develop communities that are focused on cooperation. Rather than competition and endless growth. You know, we got to this place through thinking the world is dead objects and we have to compete to exploit these resources and so forth.

[22:33]

So how do we change our way of thinking and seeing reality? This is at the heart of this story, this koan. How do we go beyond the heat and cold of aggression, competition, thinking that we have to do unto others before they do unto us. Our whole way of seeing, the whole way in which our society is militarized or focused on aggression. We talk in terms of military metaphors. It's part of our language. We have to look at this. We have to study the self, study the way we are as human beings. It's not hopeless. It's not like human species. It's possible the human species will die out with the other species that are undergoing mass extinction. But it's not at all inevitable. There are things that we can do.

[23:39]

There are things that are happening that are positive responses. But it is and is going to be challenging. So another way of talking about this koan, the monk asking, how do I find the place beyond heat or cold? And Dongshan said when it's hot, just, you know, burn up. When it's cold, freeze to death. You know, there are various ways to translate what Dongshan said. But I want to refer to how Suzuki Roshi talked about this koan. Once when he was at Tassajara, he was talking about this story. And he said, when it's hot, you should be hot Buddha.

[24:44]

When it's cold, you should be cold Buddha. So how do we find the way to, you know, our practice is basically about expressing the Buddha that we are. The way in which, you know, of course we all see our own patterns of grasping and anger and confusion when we sit. But also there's something deeper. There's this suchness, this first refuge. In which, you know, we sit like Buddha, expressing Buddha in the way we are. Each of us, each of us differently. You know, there's not one version of Buddha. Some of us have been reading the Flower Ornament Sutra monthly. And it describes many, [...] many different colorful Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. So how do we each find our way, our own way, our particular way to be Buddha? And when it's hot, hot Buddha.

[25:47]

When it's cold, cold Buddha. And to respond, to look at what's happening. So how do we fully take on the situation we're in? How do we express our wholeness in the situation we're in? And, you know, again, I feel like we've had practice last year in how to do this. And it's been horrible for many people. Many people have, of course, just in this country, I don't know, what is it, 550,000 dead at this point. Many people ill. Many people suffering economically. Actually, the people who we've most relied on are the necessary, essential workers have suffered sometimes the most.

[26:56]

Many nurses have died taking care of COVID patients. This has been a terrible time. But also for those of us who are still here, how do we see that we actually have, you know, changed how we live in some really physical way? It's not theoretical. So, you know, to talk about this koan psychologically in some ways sounds like it's theoretical. But physically, to actually physically go beyond our comfort zone is what this practice eventually demands of us. How do we, you know, Buddhist priests or monks are called home leavers. But for all of us, and we have a nonresidential lay sangha here, how do we see that which goes beyond? How do we not get caught up in the usual world of fame and gain?

[27:58]

How do we find a way not to become more and more successful, whatever that might mean for us, but to actually appreciate our life as it is, the suchness of this life? And how do we, how will we see that as things become more difficult? So I'll close with just, you know, referring back to the Dongshan's Jewel Mirror Samadhi. And, you know, we did a practice period a number of years ago about this. But just to look at a few lines, turning away and touching are both wrong, for it is like a massive fire. So we can't turn away from how the world is changing and the difficulties of the world and the difficulties of climate. But we also can't get a hold of it. Turning away is wrong. Turning away doesn't work.

[28:58]

Trying to grasp it, to understand it, to control it. You know, so there are some people now who are thinking about solutions to climate damage, you know, through science like cloud seeding or, you know, there's all kinds of ways. And, you know, some of that technological, some of those technological things may help a little bit, but we have to change our way of seeing and thinking. Turning away and touching are both wrong, for it is like a massive fire. He also says it's like facing a precious mirror, form and reflection behold each other. You are not it, but in truth, it is you. And, you know, I've done whole Dharma talks and practice periods just on that line. But I'll just say in this context, we can't control it. You are not it, but actually it is you. We're all included in the situation of, you know, humanity and human beings. And how do we work together and how do we face difficult realities together?

[30:02]

So, and this leads into the teaching, which I'll just mention. And, you know, I can go into it a little more if people want to in Q&A. But the reality of the interaction of our practice awareness, our awareness of something deep that goes beyond, and then it's expression in the world. So, you know, there's this dialectic process in our practice and in the world. And when we're in Zazen, we slow down a little bit. We deaccelerate. We find some calmness. Maybe not every period of Zazen, but some of the time if you keep at it. And that settledness, which we start to find, is in a dance with appropriate response.

[31:04]

How do we respond to the difficulties of the world? So just a couple more lines from this song by Dongshan. Natural and wondrous, it is not a matter of delusion or enlightenment. So what Dogen says later, when you're in delusion, be completely in delusion. When it's hot, it's hot. When you see awakening, be completely there. You know, be calm. Within causes and conditions, time and season, it is serene and illuminating. So our practice is about this balance, this interaction of calmness and then expression. How do we respond appropriately to these extreme conditions, which are here and are going to continue to be here? Dongshan also says, whether teachings and approaches are mastered or not, reality constantly flows.

[32:06]

You know, if we try and deny the reality of climate damage or if we just feel like we're caught in it and there's nothing we can do, that's not it. There's this flowing, which we can be part of. So, okay, maybe that's enough. I welcome your comments, questions, responses. Please feel free, Alex, maybe you can help me call on people. Oh, for the people who I can't see, if you go to the participants, click on participants at the bottom. And there's a raise hand function if you have something to say. So, comments, questions, responses to this difficult koan we're faced with of the place beyond heat, hot, and cold. I see a hand from Nyozon.

[33:11]

Hey, Nyozon. Thank you. I was confused by your talk early on at one point. And it was where, I mean, certainly all of Dharma is about the middle way in some sense, ultimately. But in discussing the comment, when it's cold, freeze to death, when it's hot, burn to death, you said, oh, that's the middle way. So, I'm a little, I didn't quite understand that link. And you also suggested taking the koan quite literally. And I was remembering a Japanese poet, a friend of Gary Schneider's, Sakaki Nanao, who has this line that always hit me. I don't know why that's, I don't know what's going on with my video, sorry.

[34:14]

You know, but it was like, he said, no need to survive. So, in going beyond our usual self-regarding concerns, one way to hear Domshon would be to hear him saying, if the world is burning, burn up with it, which is, you know, quite different than what you're proposing. So, I just wondered if you could, and maybe it will become clear if you could explain the link between these statements of extremes and saying that that's an expression of a middle. That's where I got lost. I don't think I said middle way. Maybe I did. You did. Okay. Well, I would put it a different way. It's that there's this balance of, you know, as I was saying, in terms of meeting reality, hearing it and expressing it, feeling it and expressing it. So, if I said there's a middle way between heat and cold, that's not what I meant.

[35:21]

There's this balance in our life. And I'm not suggesting, you know, self-immolation or anything like that. It's not, this isn't about, you know, hot or cold suicide. This is about meeting the situation. And for maybe for the monk who was questioning Dongshan, it was just that it got really hot up there in the mountains in the summer in China, and maybe it got really cold in the winter. And, you know, in Chicago, we can feel those extremes more than I used to be able to when I lived in California. So, from that, tell me your question again. Well, my question is, I mean, we can take Dongshan, that is, you know, absolutely literally, you know, if the world is burning, just burn up.

[36:30]

And in fact, you know, in this situation, when I've been the hot monk sweltering in my robes, you know, to which I'm extremely sensitive, you have insisted that I take it very literally, just burn up, you know, and I do. And I'm trying to, I don't want to personalize this, but, you know, one way to hear that poem would be, you know, if the, you know, what the condition is now is that the, you know, we've entered a phase where, you know, the world and many of the species are dying. Right, as you pointed out. Why not just be with that? Well, yeah. If we take the koan, I don't, I'm not proposing that we do, but that would be one way that we could hear that koan. And I'd like something solid, why I should not hear it that way. We should not hear it that way because our practice is about relieving suffering.

[37:31]

And relieving suffering is about not resisting, right? In some senses, not resisting the suffering. It might involve political resistance, but it doesn't involve resisting the suffering. It involves being with suffering. It involves being with grief when you're sad. It involves being with heat when you're hot. It involves meeting the situation. But there's also the aspect of response, an appropriate response. So it's not just, you know, whatever's happening, just go, you know, whatever, man. It's, we have these precepts, this bodhisattva ethical response. So how do we, you know, sometimes maybe the appropriate response is going into a burning building to try and save someone. But how do we see the whole situation of our planet, of our species, of our brothers and sisters, all the children of Buddha, not just human, as something we take care of and protect?

[38:47]

We're about, our practice is also about generation after generation, keeping it well, taking care of this practice of suchness. How do we pass it along? So that means when it's hot, how do we respond to the heat? And sometimes we're just hot. Sometimes, you know, in the context of climate damage, which is something that, you know, Dongshan had no idea of. It's a different world now, in so many ways. How do we respond appropriately and helpfully to that? And so the koan itself is, Dongshan says, when it's hot, you know, just let, you know, be burned up in the heat. When it's cold, be cold. You have to see it in the context of all the koans, actually, all stories are not just absolute theoretical things. There was a particular monk in a particular place in Dongshan's monastery who asked this question.

[39:53]

And so he's responding to that particular monk who's trying to avoid hot and cold. So it's not about avoiding, it's turning away and touching are both wrong. Turning away and trying to get control of it are both wrong. But how do we face, the point is, I would say, how do we face the situation we're in as individuals and as human beings? Well, thank you. I'll let the conversation move on. Thank you. Yes, Ken. Hi. Yeah, I kind of interpret this as contrasting climate change acceptance versus climate change denial. And the translation of this koan that I was familiar with, the way it's stated is when it is cold, give yourself up to the cold. When it is hot, give yourself up to the heat.

[40:54]

And so what I'm getting at is that if when it is hot, give yourself up to the hot, give yourself up to the heat means, and this coincides with my understanding where we are on climate change, frankly, that we're probably about 10 years past the point where we could stop it. So give yourself up to the heat in this context means to me understanding that it is happening. Understand that it is going to involve some pain and acceptance of the fact that we're going to have to change our lifestyle, that our energy consumption is going to have to change, that it's going to be more expensive, that we be with that. We embrace that and that thereby enables us to do what we need to do. Yes, I totally agree with everything you just said, that it's not, the point isn't to be killed by the colder heat.

[41:58]

The point is, how do we be with it? How do we not turn away from, not try and avoid it? How do we face it? And yes, the one thing I would say is that maybe we're 10 years past where we can actually stop it, but we're not at the point where it's inevitably going to, you know, destroy all. It's going to change human civilization in the next 100 years. It's going to cause a lot of really drastic difficulty, but there's still a way to work with it to make it, to make it find a new way to live with it. So I think we have maybe 10 more years to make a significant change. And this is the urgency of how we have to change our energy systems as a species. But I saw Jason has to go. Okay, well, didn't have a chance to say goodbye. So, yeah, I mean, I basically agree with everything you said.

[43:00]

And so now how do we adapt and take a sad song and make it better? You know, how do we work with this? And, you know, again, part of the solution is community, is sangha, is, you know, on all different levels. How do we work together to see the possibilities to do what can be done? And there are things that can be done. I mean, there are countries in Europe that have functioned for months at a time just on alternative energy. So the development of solar and wind and other alternate energy systems and battery storage and so forth is, that part of technology is happening and is worth that we have to encourage our backwards political leaders to take that on.

[44:11]

So there's lots of things to do. But, yeah, it's not. So when I said to take the song, take the koan literally, I didn't mean literally to be killed by it. I mean, literally to, yeah, it's going to be cold and hot. Yeah, Ken, you had a follow up. To sort of further dig a level deeper in what I understand how this applies to our current situation. I think being with it, being with climate change or giving ourselves up to it means acknowledging that this is going to hurt, accepting that this is going to hurt. And I would contrast that with some of our perhaps well-meaning politicians who would like to describe what we have to do is not involving any pain. Yes. Yes, well, and what I was saying about the pandemic, yeah, that hurt.

[45:16]

And even those of us who have gone through it and, you know, as privileged a way as possible and as, you know, with as little damage as possible, I think all of us are traumatized. I think all of us have been through something in the last 14 months that is unsettling, stressful, and we have to acknowledge that. We have to feel the grief of what, you know, is happening in this world. And but then how do we be hot Buddha, cold Buddha or whatever? Yeah. So thank you, Ken. I really appreciate that. Ed, is your hand up? Yes. Thanks. You know, and I just initially in response to Ken, I do. I remember many years ago, I want to say maybe it was 77, 78, 79, when Jimmy Carter suggested that we reconsider our relationship with ourselves and setting our thermostats at 68 rather than 72 in the height of the winter in the northern part of the United States.

[46:21]

And it was a horrific response to that because it was so it was so countercultural. And what he was people really don't think understood what he was suggesting. And it was a suggestion on the meditation and the principle of our relationship to our behaviors and our practices as it relates to our presence in the community. But that was Jimmy Carter and he lost office. Now, what this what this is to say, Jimmy Carter was way ahead of his time. Yeah, go ahead. What a what a what an inspiration that man was when he was in office. And I, the koan itself. I mean, it seems to me in the way I experience it, I don't experience it as a prescription or prescriptively. It's more presented to me as a meditation on the nature of principle itself. And genuine principle and the kinds of behaviors that manifest from the adaptation of principle to me as an individual.

[47:26]

Those behaviors are only genuine when they are a result of my meditation on a principle that I consider in its adoption. And so the whole prescriptive model is instantly problematic. If we if for me, if I do the koan in that way. So that's what I enjoy about the koan. And I don't know if that's helpful at all. And that that approach to the experience of the koan. Yeah, I think part of what's useful about this story is that it's not theoretical. It's, you know, our physical comfort. Heat and cold. It's a physical thing. And we're going to have to learn how to be uncomfortable sometimes. That's part of what's going on and what has been going on. So how do we go beyond? So I started off by talking about our limitations as human beings.

[48:34]

Dogen talks about that a lot. How do we accept and acknowledge those limitations, but also take on how we can respond appropriately? So it's not exactly prescriptive, but it suggests, you know, that there is that ethical aspect of how do we take care of each other? Other comments or responses, please? We have time for one or two more. Amina, go. Yeah, I mean, what Ken said about, you know, just the pain of this, of the future. And also like what you said, Taigan, about what we've all experienced in the last year of the pandemic resonates for me. And, you know, just that idea of maybe like when it's hot, be hot. When it's cold, be cold. Be able to exist with that coldness and that heat. And, you know, and definitely in the last year, like part of it for me is at least some of the time being able to deal with what was happening, what was existing.

[49:39]

And when I think about the future, I mean, I guess I think that there will be lots of crises. There'll probably be more pandemics. There will be, you know, here where I am. Every year we'll have wildfires. They'll get worse. You know, like all of these things. And we'll be living the whole time. Like when they're not happening, we're alive and living. When they're happening, we're alive and living. And I'm really having to live with it, you know, like whatever is happening. And I think for a while I felt like, well, I felt so down about like climate stuff that I felt like, well, I can't really be happy or I can't really have a good time. We're like beyond good times. But then I think now I'm sort of like, no, I'm going to be happy when I can be happy. And I'm going to have a good time when I can have a good time. And when things are bad, they're bad. And I need to be with that, you know. So that's kind of how I was thinking about the koan and just like how to live now. But also just like really quickly, when I was in, I went to a Mennonite high school for one year.

[50:41]

And I remember being at a youth retreat and the pastor saying, you have to be hot for Jesus. If you're not hot for Jesus, you might as well just turn the spigot to cold. And that's when I like not like rejected Christianity but was like, okay, like I can never be hot for Jesus. I'm just going to turn it to cold and like not try to do this, you know. But it was kind of this, the hot cold thing was sort of like a formative thing for me. But thank you. This feels like very meaningful, this conversation. Yeah, I would say be hot for suchness. And when you're hot, you're hot. When you're not, you're not, you know. So I like what you said about, you know, enjoying. There are things we can enjoy, you know. It doesn't have to be grim, but it's going to be tough. And we have to actually change our way of living and thinking and feeling and loving and, you know, and using energy and all of that. It's going to happen.

[51:42]

It's not like we should decide to do that. This is what suchness is going to be like. And it already is in many places. Thank you, Amina. Good to see you again. Amina is one of our original dragons. Nathan also whose sort of his face is hidden, but we can see that his iPhone is there. Anyway. Time for maybe one more comment or response. We're a little over time, but that's okay. Anybody else have something you want to say? Nathan, hey. So Nathan's in Michigan. Amina's in California. Joe is here from Florida. So this pandemic has forced Zoom on us.

[52:46]

Oh, and Ruben is down in Joliet. Not that far away. Anyway. And Niazan is down in Hyde Park. Really far away. Miami. Yeah. So, okay. Alex, maybe you could lead us in the closing chant and then we'll have announcements. Of course, I will go ahead and share my screen. One second. Beings are numberless. I vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible.

[53:51]

I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to realize it. Beings are numberless. I vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to realize it. Beings are numberless. I vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible.

[54:54]

I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to realize it.

[55:15]

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