Dogen's Vow

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on page fifty three again this morning by reading if we can together read a costly for to come on
if you don't have a copy you can look on with someone find it

athlete first let's just go round with name's veronica kicker
lastly can can count larger a citizen to key for helen throw j rosen
so we vow with all the is from this site
hail size the time that i hear no doubt will arise nice i really like evidence that i mean if shown as worldly affairs and maintain the buddha dharma and then
the great earth and all living together
way
has evil karma
related in the office
it's also a ride the same away now
search to at the same that way away he had asked was trying free us from earlier less and i asked his practice away without hindrance in a share with us their compassion when your shells and as universe with the first
sensory issues but as an ancestors so i mean when a user shall be less stress reappearing goodness and ancestors yeah
you're away body mind we are loving mind me because i extend their compassion to us freely now limit where he was usa and record
the same it therefore faster than the have said the past lives are not invited
enlightened and in this life say that i the free from any eyes
our food as for latest they are famously and i was a lot of today are exactly the those old quite explore the farthest reaches of these houses and conditions as this practice this means that transmission
and into confessing m s doing in this way when never fails to receive or found help from all this ancestors by revealing and was a lack of faith and practice before the buddha we know today room a trap
yes russian spy devices and every of the houses this is a pure and simple color of through practice of this room lined with eighth
variety of ways
thank you

so
just
before we press on a bit is are there any
questions hanging on from yesterday from is the morning for the afternoon yeah he says a fine thank you so much closer
i was thinking about the the istrian class there soon be to two camps much knowledge lot of flak line between two camps but there was a feeling of that as a vow could be defined as some have the lofty or spiritual deep and of wonders thing and i've
leslie inspired some thinking after secede from the yesterday when she hadn't bought it
back to earth a little bit
she started fading with practice and i really do think that vow
is associated with what you do
i'm doing is associated closely with practice so for me vow doesn't really have this lofty spiritual deep thing is just simply what you did and what you said you would do and just six years basic
practice that's kind of runtime
someone have a perspective her response to that
it's really individual needs attic the spiritual person think this could include
as think it's it's either own villages how you
how does for you you more spared for any person
oh you might want to have it is fearful hemisphere from feel even more thing that the dallas it's this guy continues to eat
yeah
you like the sometimes rather day
think we need ourselves for our actions
for now
he says his practice
this i was spent a lot of yesterday from another kind of struggling with her idea associated as practice of faith
and this morning
i hadn't picked up again that registered for the first time it's like the first the last paragraphs are an absolute contradiction the first the first reminds me of my childhood where the or something like you know that leaving out around like major hasn't hurt etc etc
and the last is you know revealing and disclosing our lack of face even and lack of practice and know
so i i can never get past foul justice the determination to know it's constant failure or you could do is pick yourself up
well there's an express man from side of that thing
isn't it the description of zenith
one continuous mistake is ah
but
you know i was thinking
this piece is filled with our with these big words vow face renunciation repentance confession
all of which for us have you know each word has gotten a lot of baggage
baggage that people would have had in in that time and place you know ah but this is what we we have to reckon with that baggage and you know it's not like
it comes from nowhere for us you know you were talking about ah the
the sayings of the religious things if your childhood right ah so ah
it's like we have the we have to see through their they're all these veils of meaning that are that exist for me in i you know how do i see through him to understand to try to get a glimpse of what but dogan was saying
ginger loved me vow means ah
counting on something outside yourself or beyond yourself
it's like recognizing that you can't on your own
you have a valve all beings to say if you feel
installation of her health was joining with the ancestors and joining with whatever you see as some great for yourself
it's a it's a kind of a humble
of recognizing your fallibility and of can't do it but you need some vow to help you and that fails
hearing for this ancestors will ancestor
nothing says herself to me a vow means something more and it's associated with ceremony
fell foul of curses in a ceremony as opposed to an intention which i can get up in the morning and set an intention after the bell valley condition
it isn't it also like the little value if you say as i would say all beings and they're so many i can't save them
first
he's in fallen what carol of saying about the repetition yet to continually believe in that even though it's an impossible for leisure and have this
that's faith rights of faith feeds the living by developed because if you want to believe that minify minute
well as strongly as possible that is just a cycle google anything like go up or small self and try to see a big so
you know in our good intentions
i think this is pretty close to what
have you seen lately
sense of balance there
it's my
here it's theirs i i can recognize my best self my bake self and that's what about comes from that's a place it is connected to some of it is connected to emptiness in whatever
way and may not be up to not that you know there's something in something i can return to when all the neuroses start claiming nickerson there's a residence to it that i can trust and it's it's a faith and i guess for me it's a
face the words might change it was not the explicit now percent a pretty explicit that was the manifestation of the at that time half and vancouver my mine outside
ah ha
doesn't get a it
were found with dangerous
like funny you and i know i just thought so
what i heard it i felt to get carry something he gave a
in i know it's not mine this it is a sound that's not okay collage of my mouth i'm sorry katie good and and states as that
a trusted it i know on a bodily no not something i
and arbitrarily you are some kind of everything to important because i believe i should it it's a trust or something that i know val is the manifestation of that bring myself back to that
limp bizkit
harry
let me throw something ensure that you may have noticed and you may not have noticed have you are speaking of all the lopes of meaning you know we have ah you know we study dog in all the time and is a certain
there's a certain territory that we feel dog into becoming from or even though some of his tissue shifted but his view of practice never shifted his view of zazen doesn't seem to have shifted and you may notice there's no mention of zazi
and can this apple
ah no contentment
i have a well and i think i think that that's probably true that there's a parallel one of the key texts that they use in in soto shoe which is a kind of
ah
again like a i think eighteenth century or know i think keeping century or have assembled technical shogi and i don't think we stay that a one point here is a state that's what anybody in japan knows about dogan as shogi and she showed me
is a skirt these bits and pieces is quite elegant and beautiful it never mentions
zazen or off or practice amid sort of like this so you know we bring that we have to bring that piece we do bring that piece to to this ah and i think that touches on
ah
you know the in the first he touches on ah
you you may read this without with all beings for this life on to count countless lives to
practice the truce on the to dharma not to clear the true dharma but to practice
ah
or to practice has broken his expression practice realization we vow with all throughout countless lives to practice realization
and upon practicing it no doubt will arise in as nor will we lack in face
actually i i like that
that of a sudden snaps everything need to focus
so i was also thinking
this section this this this text is in has a couple of different pieces ah
and so it has the the first piece is the vow
ah and the second piece ah is kind of a description of what what happens when you make this vow
ah so when you make this foul
you'll be free from doubt you'll be freed from lack of faith implication being we have doubts and lack of faith or is it really interesting reading a it
this is this is our teacher who is exemplary
we may never
we will ever reach his mind ah have to find it is funny
ah

hope yours

search and is talking about
the of is great beautifully says i have total faith in practice whatever i needed would just come through practice instead of feeling resentful i felt gratitude for being in this position without being in disposition i don't know how that would have been but i really learned how to rely on practice as a staple of
sustenance the source of sustenance i can't tell you how that has worked
i said ah i feel nothing but gratitude for what ordinarily we would think of as adversity which has actually opportunity this is also suzuki roshi teaching the other side of adversity is ah
opportunity if you have the right attitude you can't go wrong this we know that the system surgeons ah
hey i don't know you got to be that way but anyway i think this is also governance always says we vow was all beans from this life on through countless lives to hear the true dharma that upon hearing that no doubt will arise in there's apparent physical expression he says i never had any doubt
after a psych rock is you know normally like advice of well thinking about doubt in the practice that's right
no no will serious self doubt and still has no doubt in i think you're essentially right yeah nothing else
yes know otherwise lose faith if we if we think
no doubt will rise in us
as out if we say that it's not in fact exceeded my ability i think that i that's a relief x wonderful distinction
so
ah but it also is it i think it includes self-doubt
ah i think the method
so sort of you to say what i see in the structure is first of all the vow second of what the vow leads to what or what what practice as your vow leads to which is the removal of a hindrance and evil
former an evil karma is actually the word that is used a i'm going to it ah by far
and those include a think was skeptical out which is that the technical term in the in the hindrances ah doubt a kind of corrosive doubt ah and on
so that's the goal of this of this vow of practice is removing of these hindrances of of the stumbling blocks and the read yesterday that he put the way and then the method which which will come to is the method for remove
them in the context of this piece is
repentance and confession and you know what i want to explore at least this morning and probably going into the afternoon is what is repentance because it's something larger than what we think of in are you know with our
christian background can on
just appointed information yesterday or doesn't bring glory was mentioning something but the first paragraph or you said well this vow is just as first thing in than the first thing applies these others but this movie of translation difference it looks to me like there of several power
as here look i've said peace over there the vows or or or prevail and adapt to hear the truth genre in stop we veil that upon hearing is no doubt will arise we vowed that upon meeting it we will be now
else
and such as we evolve as and so doing that will be ah
i'm not sure which is right there because head of and every through it is the way like and other words i can say i vow that when i meet a problem i will not be deterred right a instead of saying i vowed to do this and that means that when i meet a problem i won't be too
if you're right i i that's really that's an interesting point ah for a
via that that turns in this thing in certain ways on on the punctuation which was didn't exist there was no punctuation
you must have a look into alternative right i am i will ever like to because of i can read it either way i can read that the first proposition is the vow and or that those subsequent clauses are so many are you know them
therefore having made his found therefore or you can beat it as a sequence of vows i don't think an early matters
whole lot but it's you know
once you start reading these things really closely and of course we're dealing with translations and
yeah i can't even find the source of this ah that that i could read it but he never translated them i don't know who translated this ah
where is the only one i know who might know
ah or somebody somebody like call beautiful to stanford or something anyway
oh we need to get too hung up on that
but but i do see this kind of structure there's a vow whichever you know you can count the first paragraph as the vow and then it's
what the vow having made this vow ah what we see about ourselves ah
and what we we can understand
about our fundamental nature is being the same as the buddha's of old and then in the last it's the last paragraph that gets to ah
that gets to the method ah
primarily anyway he admits it's sort of the digital bits of it but sit quietly explored the farthest reaches of these causes and conditions as this practice
it is the exact transmission of a verified buddha that with the verify buddha there is he's referring to master lugia which is often what what dogan does you know him in his fascicles they're sort of strings of quotations and he uses them as
as kind of verification and establishing of the the truth of a proposition confessing and repenting in this way one never fails to receive profound help from all buddhas and ancestors by revealing and disclosing our
lack of faith and practice before the buddha we melt away the root of transgressions by the power of our confession and repentance this is the pure and simple color of to practice of the true mind of face of the to body of faith
does anyone
i am wondering i got hung up on confessing and repenting in this way
ah what do you think in this way means
hi thanks point out the sweetness of the causes and conditions ah which i guess the causes and conditions and actually second paragraph or he will come out there are obstacles right
right i think i think that that makes sense
someone else for sort of a burden of the scientists been thinking about this lack of faith that i keep thinking is
they said this is it somehow it's like that's what i lack of effort others that much as i have learned the hassan from time to time you know sometimes i don't like it sometimes and wait like what do you mean this what's happening right now is it the relative and absolute
yeah which one are there always been happening and this is the manifestation of
you like facing a
see her message to me is your suffering because you want things to be different from how they are and i actually happening
and laugh when i do have a problem at this can't be it is kind of on the by the bottom line this this what's happening right now this cannot be
is it adds a future thinking or something like that or something beyond thinking this can't be the ultimate truth this can't be the thing to turn this can't be the thing that has told me for me to turn if i just wake up at that this campy the thing that i could wake up on
apparently hundred nothing on sunday kind of like that
an arm
a and like the only thing that is working you that has hobby harvey me when i'm when i can't believe that i do think that is my thing i think there's this has no mother has everything i need to make up the so so some of the time i don't think that that's my lack of faith offense
that's it manifests no doubt will any isn't that the same thing it's the small one and then it's the big i mean that your faith is underneath what you just said oh you wouldn't keep yeah to sit right right it's under there somewhere that ends at our way that with at the vargas them
through mindfulness when the valiants renewed through my friends
well i want to wait because i want to unpack something but something else but i think that hum
this kind of get to that question of or of
the the faith is like

it's like this stillness that surgeon was talking about this piece it's like ah the ocean without waves or the air
just in the in the dark of the
dark of the middle of the night just that ah
when you let the perturbations kenneth ripple out and settle
then you can
you know
you can see clear to the bottom but otherwise you're just seeing the perturbations on on the surface ah and i i think that's that's
i'm not was dogan was getting up and certainly sojourn was game that in his piece category says keep your feet on the ocean floor right
and and self as long as they're there but when when i was thinking about all the time so you know when you make a vow to practice and surgeon encourages us has always encouraged me to say no make making a make a vow about your when you're coming to this is just really simple everyday like what day
is you're coming to this end up when you come to sit once you make the valve you don't you know you wake up and you say i've got an eighth of that a pain it just feels so good today
the bowels what carries you to just keep walking the walk despite the fact that you have doubts and you don't really want to go and you can and besides your and hasn't been so good lately
it's been lucky
so why am i going to say that that you just keep doing yeah as his vows is really important at precisely the moment when you have to decide but you can get out a bit as how visit
who says that that's similar computers that the spoke with the kids it
on
i wouldn't get up otherwise i think know you you wouldn't ah
but
we have a reason to get up even
an lx that's what i was what i was seen whether it yesterday in again looking renting they're all these people who've been doing this for years and years and we don't exactly we can't exactly say why but it's it's is now
and it and you may have a different experience of me like it never an eye for soldiers and it never gets any easier
ah you know but
i i do it you know how that's and
in some way i feel good about myself for doing a nut because i've been a a good person or the boy but ah but actually
what i notice even though we're not supposed to have a gaining idea it feels they just
if i've done that in my life my day has started needing itself together into into a whole
ah and ah you know that's i know if i didn't do that it would be like in pieces lying around my room and
that would probably not feel good
baby that's a date that's a digression
ah
yeah wondering if it is a question in terms of repentance
zephyr as you were talking as thinking that have
when i
intended you something i work in them to death note
at i have a feeling of not maintaining my own integrity with myself
emma
as can conjugate correctly that
yeah and i'm wearing down my integrity
no i vow
are they extremely safe in his tennis right
if i can
but when i don't is a moment to
when me this tacky feelings that come on
the them with integrity
yeah
well let's turn to repentance if that's okay and for such so safe
you know it's a really interesting word which means something like
it's roots me like think again
ah
and
what that means i think we can we can play out you know ah
you know if me some degree are they
okay take another pass at this idea that you have and ah
can you see it from another angle or another direction or looking for forcing you to get right
he said its whatever's whatever's the object of your of your thought the implication in repentance is that you've already had a thought
you already have some mental construction about ah something you've perceived or something you've done
ha and to take another pass at it and i think that's the context of of our ah
he'd have a whole life so in living by valve ah second chapter you have the strength of
it's a fault ah awakening to incompleteness and it's diverse of repentance which is familiar to us
in a slightly different form in our but he sought for ceremony and or ordination ceremony is in our wedding ceremonies in our funeral ceremonies it's it's one of those building blocks of ah of all of our ray
actuals that we use and we use it
you know
as an introduction to all these ceremonies as a way to kind of you could say it's portraits of it's it's a kind of versa purification
but it's you know i'd rather say instead of purification which is gonna be uncomfortable and other ways it's just like
okay let's take a breath and
and start fresh and we do this by you know saying ah
all the karma ever created by me of old through greed anger and self delusion which has no beginning born of my body speech and thought i now make full repentance of it to our version is a all my ancient tangled karma from being endless greed hate and delusion
born through body speech and mind i now fully valve
ah and just to say that so we used to say before we to tangle with what we said twisted well my agent twisted karma or and ah
really if you go to there's other centres was a all ah

all the evil all my evil karma since of old
ha is a i think that's the way we were seen as a compiler but literally the word is a chicago which is evil com we don't like evil new like that's like dualistic ah and so we we suffered it to twisted
and then people were twisted as a funny connotation ah and so we softened add a little more to tangled ah
which it is strict sense is accurate because what we're
looking at is non karmic activity but on it starts to move away i think from the ah
from the weight of of of this and from how
ha
our unskillful
actions have are hindrances to us so what would show up he says here is very interesting traditionally and chinese and japanese buddhism there are two kinds of repentance one is formal and concrete repentance called g some gay some
gay is repentance and ah
ah but in which we repent concrete offences by means of rituals conducted with the help of a particular buddha teacher or sanga member another kind of repentance is called re sungei g and we are important concepts in china
he is buddhism will find us are excessively where she talks about this extensively in a branching streams for the dark because a those figure in a well as relative and absolute they figure in the sand okay so
g refers to the relative conventional phenomenal and formal level whereas re refers to the absolute supreme and top three total and formless level ah
a verse different from the one called above the news for recent get which i wish he had quoted i don't think him i don't think it's clear in the chapter
ah
so ah
then what he says and this gets to this point the practice sitting in zazen and letting go of thoughts is formless re sungei this kind of repentance has been emphasized in soto tradition ah in dobyns writing as far as i know only the verse of ji sung
gay is recorded i think both forms are important formal repentance is for our misdeeds they break the bodhisattva precepts will receive when we become poorest students
formless repentance is to awaken to the total interpenetrating reality beyond separation of subject and object self and others this is zaza
hum
i'm not so convinced of the distinction that the chalk science is making here
in relation to ah
in relation to of
both the body suffer
precepts and or practice it's clear to me i understand what he's saying about ha
a formlessness of the former's repentance of of zazen but ah
i guess i've always had the feeling that there's a formless dimension to our recitation of the or our ceremony rapid with recitation of the of the precepts
ah that it's not
ah but he talks about this ah a little incident was that in this paper you know our bodies sought for ceremony is
the the words japanese are reactive for thoughts which means the short or condensed our repentance ceremony
ah so
of the route
so what we do in that ceremony is we save all my ancient tangled karma you know it's like
ha
it's a very ineffective apology in certain ways like when somebody said well whatever i did i apologize for it you know
which which does not make a if you if you've ever been apologize to that way you know it doesn't work very well ah but here i think the intention is is a kind of vast and cosmic one ah and i think it it is a me i don't know i know how i try to think
what we're doing this ceremony and it's really interesting that's a place when we're doing reactive besides i
i have to remind myself to really pay attention to the words because my mind wants to
i see it wanting to veer away i don't anybody else has that experience like the precepts
i i can sort of keep a focus on but something about there's there's a a fuzziness a mental fuzziness that can really set in during the repentance as anyone else
when i think i'm saying when i do it but when are you saying that that we usually he adjusting you don't think a specific thing nothing is physically all all five
no what am i think what i'm what i'm saying is ah
i have a shortcoming i
there's something so large about it than it makes my mind fuzz out and i can and i'm literally happens to me is
i can't
pay attention to the words are it's very hard for me to explain does anyone have some i could spread to his space out all the time at different times in all different ceremony started seventy out that different from communities and nobody likes of was and pay out there line comes in the i cannot i guess
yeah you're saying had a lot of tension
i've often thought you know that ceremony is so moving that salsa con depersonalize and it is a procedure to say out loud rap in a community i did this the sweet restaurant and i personally believe in ontario about it and i want to be pantech right i want to confess that i will
repent that i think catholicism lot in grew up catholic that that case my mind i felt there was always when i was growing up i thought it was something very brave about people tell me insane you know i did this well that was the with what can we think so the original ceremony in in buddhism and actually i see
it predicts buddhism in
poly cause the capacitor ceremony was done at the time of the new moon in the full moon and what the ritual it is still is that are the ordained people monks in their circle nuns in their circle
ha ha sit in a circle which is a ritualized space and their the ritual is too
recite the whole vinaya which is like you know more than two hundred precepts
they do this twice month they recite on precept bad if you have broken a priest technically a man at your health how nowadays it works i know to some degree it does if you have broken a precept you're not allowed to sit in the circle
ah until you have actually confessed and repented that precept in the preceptor are classified according to the seriousness of the breach and the a specificity of the confession
you know if you've done circumcision things you have to just confessed to another monk you know and if you've done a certain were serious things you have to see have a higher monk you know or or a group or and so there's there's a kind of prescription for
for the confession and repentance like communion catholicism is it i don't know you can't have communion if you haven't got a confession right right right to yes yeah while hung out now you can at its best quietly quiet manga would be quietly tears you don't have that absent go to a priest or hockey it now you're allowed to on us
sit there for vamps version of a master gap in the mess that it usually can we don't want to hear
a like this kind of argument all the time and ethernet that's the general item yeah recipe or your existential guilt
speak for yourself
huh
yes the slices can imagine that packet maybe you've been there when this has happened yet
clearwater sendo oh my mary has performance young once a month they do that you know and as a small enough group that you can in authors fiver take people up and sitting in a circle and just saying or passing you know have so if you can say something that you
you say something eight thousand am fm yet you felt badly it out or something sometimes it gets into like what i'm trying to land working remove or felt right and uncertain about
and then the ceremony happens right after that himself and equity there are times when i when i was going regularly because we were being the dolan co-ceo for a while their parmesan
sometimes it was really uncomfortable and i didn't even want to go in and be part of it you know and other times i felt hey about your mother i had something to say or not is so different than because i i didn't grow up in that other religions that detergent did not say where you had to confess things all the time
you have a different way of
do it and enjoying it probably of this is small very supportive group
interesting well yeah i mean there are song as that that do that they've instituted that it's not him he's not in the the soto ah
but can repertoire but when we were having with when norman fischer was habit of san francisco zen center he had we would have like every six months a priest meeting of all the priests in isn't the zen center system which he very kindly included
bcc priests and we would do we what we did but the meeting was was we would do the bodhisattva ceremony
and then we would form into small groups of three or four and we will do that what you're saying it it was you know it was pretty moving

gather there's there places that they do that but
oh the other thing the other practices that we had when i was a zoo leo g in japan for short practise period what was really interesting was every morning
every morning we would have chosen ch of here we would have tea green tea together and psych we'd sit with the abbot or the tonto ah and all the monks would would sit around and we would each ever cup of hot matcha
green tea with when they made 'em made each cups individually and a a little wonderful little treat that always looked like it was gonna be chocolate and was invariably red bean paste
and so disappointing meal things which can impact
ah not a few japanese
but in the ceremony one of the one of the rituals of the sermon was anybody who had
done something who had broken a rule or who had not acted in appropriately ah in the community just confessed in front of everybody they would they say i'm sorry for doing such and such and they didn't go into any detail and they would
this rebels yeah
things fascinating the holt discussion is fascinating to me there's an element the ceremony usually makes me wanna cry of i find some and to me that is flimsy
and what i hear in it is i suppose you can take the desert lifting of responsibility and a recognition that all of us who brought here by many things right much beyond our power right and so i see it for me the bodhisattvas beginning of compassion for myself
and
and the net
so
repentance often has a flavor of shame right and that's part of the harmless
read it is about the first
right and it's about you know you said it has as cleansing ah
effect you know that see if you will miss the that's the aspect of purification
which is sets the stage for us being able to
start
over start fresh and that is going to see that is to me
the distinction of the buddhist nature of karma ah as as distinct from other ah
indian derived notions of karma that that
the previous notion and it still exists in a lot of places including in some approaches the buddhists of as karma as fate
karma has
destiny or something ah and
you know what that meant in the buddhist time before he re if you've reinvented the words karma and dharma ah so the word karma meant something like okay you're born into a position that's it
ah your and it actually says it's in the in the
in the law of money that these texas like ah if you were born into position your responsibility is to maintain their position or meekly for your whole life
ah and that's your karma
and the only way you can purify your karma is by ups is by living out that
living out that position to the yet and the living out of it than the duty is dharma his duty
ah and that's you know dom is also that's the law
so that's a law of a kind of social and spiritual determinism
and the buddha just he turned that on its head in the sense that karma is just cause and the opportunity that we have because of a your are the way we understand the law which is hard dharma
is that okay
this shit happened
what do i do now
you know do i want to be mired in it do i wanna be stuck at it from my own life to i want to accept ah
you know the burden of my own actions or can i use them to
ah to be reborn in that moment and you know and come forth new and this repentance verse is part of the the ritual of starting over
kim
this isn't much of the the over of when about karma in a japanese novel the field country
there's this event that happens
where are a woman
make some
relatively benign but but a bad thing like maybe an angry reaction he hit some for something
somebody some situation and this sets and train
ah a whole series of bad times
i mean it's obviously like a karmic kind of thing but rexroth was writing about somebody's book about genji and he said they overlooked something they're talking about this woman's bad karma of doing this and they didn't notice that the character who did that in the being
not too long after that and almost saintly person
i mean she just she did something but ah
you know it was not like she was in a different thing but what she did
had this thing and in the book it it gets in this sort of superstitious form it's like this thing is like a ghost from so it's like an actual being that takes form
you know like out of the anger or whatever the the thing was and it's just going on there even though the person who actually set it in is not really anymore in implicated it so it's kind of the a that goes back to the idea that of the original commerce action
and then with boudreau may be tied this more in with intention or something and then you the intention i are you know i say i'm sorry or
the or something but i think we have to remember those two different aspects that we can for example repent
ah like oh we're gonna intimate you know like i'll try not to do that again i apologize and so on but nevertheless the action may already be set up and it's a big penis or vagina yeah the only thing that we weekend i mean in that sense we have this big wow
that may be kind of fugal it's just all we can do it safe and sorry see you know it's out there right a you know his marriage if you'd like if it becomes come and surgeon said
if he didn't even if it's just saw your mind from moment that you no longer a part of that fun anymore it creates karma yeah i don't wanna get too caught up i actually that would be a whole a whole other
class because what you're you're pointing to a a conundrum that is argued
pretty intensely about whether karma is something that pertains to the individual or in a sense if it's an action that has been loosed in a system or
no that's a social system that it's that is loosed in and so is there such a thing as a social karma and and their scholars and both sides to argue back and forth
i tend to agree with with you have but you know we would look at it let's not get into that now i want to take one or two more than a a wanna was stop and we're going to go pick up on this and also there's a lot i want to get you some ah
some further elucidation that touches on the
the question of good and bad and beyond good and bad are in the context of our actions and repentance is this afternoon okay i see one two three that as and ah
and then
if something for why i haven't actually very lovely experience
an advocate for change
part of it
i did something mildly not right now and sees myself and it has happened someone and as remake me this was reading the sunday and actually said something to of has gone on that and then
it was interesting because usually i like to think that take responsibility for my actions and
sir
that my first reaction was like oh you know when
at angeles i felt often giant can this as up as have as didn't much your shame that i am i selling point
but when he said something to have active actually the eyes
i felt awful about mess myself was of of
and he the size of patronize apologize he didn't really need the apology per se that it definitely
and it was interesting as in this context of relationship
sandra you he was not looking to make me feel bad about it
the and know that was i think that was the thing that i had not
then that does not
and it just does not currently
i've done something wrong and i'm less i had i feel ashamed repentance is very different feel and i feel like it's kind of a loss of faith in myself
shane and
this is like coming back
versus repentance in this case was just
sorry
i did wrong and st this doesn't move on and
i guess and
yeah just a united states and and you should think of it
right well i think it's this is ah

oh this gives you the opportunity to start a new
ah and you know sometimes it's hard because if we
he knew something
really wrong really hurtful we can't take it back
but if we're stuck on it
then it's say were not alive here something we we've killed something here are financed for their time hand it's very hard it's very hard to let go of ah
of our mistakes
it's hard to let go of things of of
injustices that have been done or or
you know ah undeserved heard that have been done to any of us because we don't control that reality
but it's even harder to let go of the things that we actually have done
and ah but if we don't find a way to let go of them
ah in our minds and our thoughts and room you know in our words are in a body then huh
then we are caught in that
circle of been
ah
and that's what repentance allows us to do to be free from that's the whole thrust of this thing to be free of karmic obstructions so that you can just
completely ah
in body and transmit the practice is too much
i was wondering if you know are more traditional judeo christian understanding of weapons there's always that there's often and
the response to that some kind of absolution or forgive us and in the second paragraph where at them
race
melbourne his ancestors have to attain them away the compassion to as and free us from karmic effects there's that
president free to so there's actually happening and wonder if if those equate so presumably you're not doing it through some mystical means and the the compassion they're shine to it was to transmit the teacher to us goes both ways
i mean really to be
to be honest ah there's a lot of there's a very strong devotional aspect in buddhism were not so comfortable with it we don't emphasize it but you know if you go to china or japan you go to any of you any
of these buddhist countries people are praying to
buddhists and various po these outfits for off
redemption or you know of
for effect so ah but the position i think
ah you know it's hard to know how dogan took that ah
or gloss on it is that all of the buddhas and bodhisattvas already alive
inside and outside of has ah and so if we just a tune to them if we just turn that radio in
ah weekend we can hear their advice because it already exists within us ah so in that sense the the translation of sheila which is what
the pali word for ethical
for moral precepts are translates as or something like natural normal illness so we're carrying that that you know it instead of you could say instead of original sin ah we're born in original and
and but let's thank it to see a large
in fact less