What should we talk about? It's very compassionate of you to all wait for someone else. That's not the koan. The koan is about not waiting. Yeah. The right way to learn in action, when I was sitting outside, is to cut the cat as an act of learning.

[01:22]

You can't grasp it through words. Maybe to learn the right path through acting and through cutting the cat. It's a way of learning and teaching. Maybe without words. Yeah, of course. This is where I would like to go deeper. Please, go ahead. I'd like you to, too. I was wondering something similar. I don't think he's finished yet.

[02:22]

We're waiting for him to go deeper. Or what do you mean by deeper? Because mind is to me deeper. Somehow, the goal is unity. I can only understand the choir when I can approach the place of my unity. And now it can't be just once, but it has to be a continuous attitude. Maybe we can... resolve or resolve the koan through acting from a place of oneness and or unity and I feel I have to find this place inside myself and then be able to act from there but how do I manifest that so it's not just happens once but it becomes more like a permanent state

[03:45]

Martin, you were going to say something? I understood that he used the cat to create a teaching situation, but I was actually wondering why he then had to cut the cat. Of course it would have been somehow incomplete as a story or not consequent as a story not to do it when he announced it. But he could have backed... not done this act to cut the cat and say, well, you are a fool, so stupid and... So why did he have to do it then? Because he already created this opportunity for the people to cut up their karma.

[05:01]

Yeah, you should say that in German if you would, since I can't. Sounds like something you order in a restaurant. Okay. Because he has already created this situation by raising the cat, giving the people, the monks, the opportunity to express themselves and to learn something, how they... to cut off her karma, to act in such a situation. Surely the story wouldn't have been round or so consistent, but it could have been inconsistent.

[06:05]

Why did he have to kill the cat? I think he did so because it's not only a matter of speaking in the life it is also a matter of actually doing something and if you only keep on the speaking mind then you... it is nothing, it's just staying in your mind level not in your actually doing level so if you really want to act then you have to do something not only to stay in speaking Yeah, this is serious. I think in our group this also appeared that these kind of things always happen in our life. We discuss and think about and there are many concepts and we miss the life and many serious things happen because we are not in this life. Just let's say, simple example, there's a small child running over the street and maybe we are in some concepts or thinking about or problems with girlfriend or chatting with someone else and not being in the situation, then maybe child dies because you are not present.

[07:28]

And this cutting the cat into pieces is, It is serious, but there are much more serious things that happen in our life. You want to say that in German? Yes, because he didn't want to stay on this level of speaking, because speaking, if you just stay there and don't step into action, then you don't achieve anything, it's not the actuality as it is described there. And this cutting of the cat into two parts is actually more serious to bring into this situation. This also happens in our daily lives. We wander in some concepts and miss very important things. For example, a child runs across the street We are currently arguing with our neighbor or thinking about our argument with a friend and are simply not involved in the situation.

[08:38]

And the child will pass away and is dead. This is a very serious matter and something like this happens all the time. And the cutting of the cat is something to guide us to this point. It is about doing it, being in the present. I would like to respond to that. Sure. I can see what you're saying. Of course, for me, it's also part of the truth. So what I say, it's not that I'm saying that it's wrong what you say, but for me there exists also this aspect of that first of all the people, the monks didn't know that he wouldn't, that if he would or wouldn't cut the cat. So he created a serious situation. And then somehow I feel that Nanchuan failed. because nobody of his monks could speak something, because he risked everything to go.

[09:49]

It's how I feel the situation. He tried really to create a very powerful situation, but for me it feels as if he actually failed because he kind of was riding the situation too hard or something. Please, in German. Yes, sorry. I think that what you said is also right for me and is part of the truth, what I also feel, this seriousness. On the other hand, I also have the feeling that There is another aspect, namely that the monks didn't know whether he would just cut the cat or not. The situation was serious enough, or was already very serious. And in a way, I have the feeling that Manchurian, the situation simply, that he risked too much in the situation.

[10:55]

He tried to create a situation in which something can happen, in which someone can learn something, maybe even have an enlightenment experience. and nobody could say anything. In a way, I have the feeling that he also failed. He played the situation too hard. If I react to that... What I feel here myself is the great compassion, I don't know if that's how you translate it in German, that Nam Schwarm has for his disciples, in which he commits such a great violation of Buddhist morality, What I feel is that Manchuan has a great compassion for his disciples and that he goes as far as

[11:57]

taking up a lot of karma in order to bring home to his pupils this matter of life and death. So I think it's not failing. It's a very important step, he takes. But then why didn't he help the monk? You don't know how many monks will have reacted to this in their life at some stage. What we came up also in our group, what we felt was or what I felt was that he's stepping out of concepts because even the verdict you shall not kill is a concept if it's considered as that. And so he's completely coming out of this arguing and talking and thinking and concept mind.

[13:26]

In a way he's just stepping out of that. The idea that you shouldn't kill is just a concept. It leaves the conceptual area. They always talked about the cat, back and forth, without a solution. He leaves this area. The idea that you shouldn't kill is just a concept. He's bound by another concept, really. It's the concept of his own words. He says he will cut it, and that he must cut it. He's bound by his own words. He's trapped by his own words. Yes, but it was their situation and they could do something about it. If Paul would step forward and say something, they could have saved the cat. So it's the same situation for some.

[14:47]

And they could have done something too. It's not like when someone threatens to cut it, that it becomes unfeasible. I'm thinking that the intention of action, so what he's intending to do, or why he does something, is maybe solving a little bit of what we were discussing. Because he sees himself as a teacher, or he is a teacher, or he incorporates a teacher. Maybe he doesn't play the role, as you said, but he just... wants to make something understandable. And so there is no other possibility for him but cutting, so making the circle round. No choice of doing better or not so good or so, or playing a thing.

[15:54]

out or not so far out or so there is no other chance because he he incorporates in the way of teaching or so what he wants to bring to them he must so I think there is no other choice for him to act differently, because he does not play the role of the teacher who uses a certain kind of trick, an actor's trick, to convince people of something or to bring them somewhere, but he acts on an intention, from the intention of a teacher who has nothing else to do but to teach. And that's what Elner is doing.

[16:56]

He's doing it all the time. In one way or another, he has no intention. The situation is like this. The women are in a situation where there is no way out. And he only shows a way out. Like this or like that. You told me that he doesn't have a concept anymore. I was almost asked if this show shoe The trade, he puts the sandals on his head, does he think about it, does he even have a concept on that level? And if not, it is actually necessary to go away, to grab the sandals, etc. He must actually have a conceptual concept. The question is whether they are still thinking or have any intention or not anymore.

[17:58]

What I wanted to ask is whether you are still thinking about it. Is Zhao Zhou... Zhao Zhou. Is he having a thought before he acts? Yeah. He's killing the source of the argument. And... Yeah. He doesn't kill birds, he kills a cat. That's the difference. That old thing, it's... The real level, there are different levels.

[19:12]

One is the world level, between the two fractions, east and west, and the other is the level of existence for the cat. Only for the cat. Only for the cat. The arguments between these two holes are enough to value the precept. You can dissolve a discussion between two arguments just by arguments. This is impossible. You can only dissolve it by doing something. There is no way to even out some two positions in arguments. That is not possible.

[20:14]

Yes, but when you are really seeing the cat hanging between life and death, And when you are really seeing it without any object and you are so involved, it's written in one sentence that the Master is holding the key beyond life and death, then first you must be really in this process of seeing and very one with it. And then it's a question of life and death. Is there a difference or not? Or how do you see life and death? Or what is it? And when he really acts, then he's maybe even cutting the difference between these two. So be aware of everything that happens. So I think the important thing is that you see that the monks who sat in the circle when the cat was there between life and death so engaged or so one with the process of seeing that this cat is now in this

[21:26]

Yes, it is written on the kippe that she, the master, what is also said in our sentence, the power between life and death, the power over life and death. And through this action in the Zen spirit there is probably no longer There is a direct difference between the two conditions, unless you do it again, if you really see it. That's why no one has anything to say. That's why no one from the two groups of monks has reported. Because no one has acted from this point of view. The concept is very interesting, it's hard to represent. It's like when a hand goes and ventilates his or her light, but doesn't do anything yet. During the... But the monks just sit there and they don't act.

[22:57]

But they don't move at the same time. He's already angry. The cat is already dead. Yes, yes, but if he had done it through this action... Yes, he would have been dead. When I read it, I feel that I understand nothing at all. When we read it in the group, So I should just maybe just read it more not... And if I talk about this detail, I judge it and I don't use my understanding.

[24:17]

I had the same reaction to the... on the level that you speak about, what does it to me? How do I feel when I confront this koan? But I have a very strong feeling that this koan is about my own life, and that my own life is at stake. But I have a chance to go on. I can go on living like I do, or I take a chance. and be totally in involvement and see what happens then. So it makes me also sad, also I have the feeling that I have to die first, I want to go on living.

[25:23]

Deutsch? I have the feeling that this koan offers me an access, touches me very much. I have the feeling that it is about my own life and that first And you didn't say what you said in German, did you? Oh, you translate for me, okay. I get confused. Okay. I was also concerned afterwards, how do we speak?

[26:28]

And how is it possible to speak not mainly with terms, but with concepts? I just asked myself how do we really deal with this and how do we talk about it? Is it possible to talk about it not being in concepts? Our solution was to be more personal and to bring more feelings into the words. Now we have thinking and feeling. How do we... well, exactly... Yes.

[27:44]

I would like to touch on this point again, that Glédoyer for these two monks groups, who may have woken up at that moment when the cat was in the air and said nothing, but may have been on a different level than before, when they were just arguing and producing things. While they were not saying anything, which I found very interesting, they were somehow also ... it was a defense of this silent group. They may not have been that stupid. Because this silence was like saying, we know what's going on, we know it. You can kill them or not kill them, good or bad, that doesn't exist. We don't have to intervene, we're not attached. It can also be like that, that you don't have to say it all the time. I want to talk in favor of the two monks groups. Maybe they weren't as stupid as they looked like. And there was certainly a difference between their fighting with each other over the cat and their silence and not acting. Maybe their not acting, their silence was an expression of some kind of understanding in the sense, well, that they realized we don't have to do anything.

[28:53]

It's not about wrong or right or killing the cat or not killing the cat. So they express detachment. You're very compassionate. Yes. For me it's the first time that a koan is touching me immediately because I see the necessity in every moment to act, and non-acting is acting. And the question is, when acting, what should I do and what is wrong, what is right, what is the reason to do or not to do. And the only possibility at least I have or I can see for me is only to take the precepts or the feeling of the precepts and act out of it.

[30:06]

For me, the first time, I have the feeling that it doesn't really touch me, in the sense that we all have to act at any moment. And not acting is also a form of acting. And that's the question for me. What is the basis of my action? How should I decide? And the only way to really get support is to act from the spirit of the precepts. Yes? There is something else. The swan lifts the cat up and the mother lifts the son up. It's the same thing. One is with the other without blood. I want to add something. My cashier probably would have held up the flower and now he holds up the cat. It's actually the same. It's just one is bloodless. And the other is flowerless.

[31:11]

Take your pick. It's a sequel. Anybody else want to? Yeah. For me the koan is a big answer to the question you, or the statement you made today that there is no place to rest in the world because usually I like to make it rich and I don't think about what my life is and what I want to do with my life. And if you take the bridge away you can freely to face that you decide every moment what your life is about.

[32:17]

And, well, the koan... I can feel the problem but I don't see the answer in the koan now. For me, the choir is a big answer to the question or the statement that Richard gave this morning, that there is no place where you can relax. Usually there is such a bridge with me, over which you can walk very easily and you ask yourself, I ask myself the question, what do I do with my life? How do I act? What do I want to achieve with it? And when you take away this bridge, you are really faced with this problem. to think in every moment, how do I build my life from these individual moments. And I have this feeling, I feel this problem, I have no idea what kind of answer is in the choir. Somehow Zhaozhou, I think, is essential to the whole story.

[33:25]

Obviously Nanzhuang is extraordinary, powerful. But they're working together, singing and clapping and so forth, as they say here. It seems that enlightenment is not such a simple affair. Dongshan, for example, had a mallet to shatter the void, still he didn't have the needle and thread to mend it. So it's not clear to me, as in the introduction, strictly executing the true imperative is still half the issue. So what's the rest of the issue? Zhao Jun seems to play a decisive role here. It is clear that Nanshuan is an unusually powerful man and the two work together somehow. But the question is... How?

[34:34]

He had a hammer to hit the empty space, but no needle and thread to sew it together again. In the introduction it says that if you know the true imperative, it is always only the half thing. What is the rest of it? Anyone else want to say something? And yet we keep falling into this possession, which now expresses itself in the fight for the cat.

[35:39]

That is, they were close to a master, were drawn to him, shared his beliefs, and yet they fell back in a behavior that they actually had to reject from themselves. And in this respect, this is our threat at all, our personality as well as the gender of man at all. And in this case, There was a remark that words and knowledge cannot help. I have experienced situations where a word or a sentence was spoken to me at the right moment and was very important to me. Insofar as I don't want to formulate it for myself. But in this situation there was a warning or a reason but only a shock therapy that hurt the most sacred principles of Buddhism. That means, actually, to help the introduction of shock therapy into the path to enlightenment, and actually that this has the highest priority over all dogmas, over all sacred principles.

[36:51]

And this undefinedness, undogmatism, I think the story represents a deep problem of humankind and the history of mankind, that despite the presence of all these great religions and meditation techniques and teachers, human beings just tend to be greedy behave in an egotistical sense and that's the story in this koan. The monks have committed themselves to practice and yet what do they do? They fight over a cat. So the only way the teacher can really teach them is through shocking them by even violating the highest ethical code and this kind of shock therapy seems to be able to push them through into enlightenment experience maybe and this has priority and this is for me very attractive in Zen that despite kind of wrong or right or codes of behavior

[38:11]

This is what it's about. It's so dogmatic. Actually, this is in all religions, even the monotheistic religions. The first rule is always there's no God beside God. And rules are also a kind of God. You should not put too much on that rule. So I think that's actually the same in all religions. Hmm. I have difficulties with this koan because I think much of the discussions also inside myself is about trying to make some sense out of the koan and trying to make that for instance, he's doing some coherent action

[39:19]

to apologize to him to say he's a good guy or he's a bad guy maybe bad in doing what he has done that's not the point I think and the question is how can I like I can see some of the the question in the quorum but I cannot see a solution I don't know what what I could say from this quorum because there's nothing to say about it We'll make an effort, please, or say something else. No wonder you can't make sense of this koan. I see the problem when you try to see a coherent action in the non-show.

[40:32]

To say he acted right or he acted wrong, to say it is right or wrong to kill the whole thing, in my opinion, does not meet the point. Yes, I want to refer to the sentence The true imperative is still half the issue. I think this is acting out of emptiness. And the other half, which is asked for, are the intentions. What are your basic intentions you're acting out? And there should be mentioned like compassion or so on, because this influence is what's coming up. Yes, I refer to this sentence, I don't know what it's called in Perpetual, in German, where it says it's only half.

[41:43]

I think the sentence refers to the action from the emptiness, i.e. the spontaneous action. And this spontaneous action is certainly very strongly influenced by the intentions, i.e. by the deep intentions that one carries with him. Well, I think I think we're very privileged to be here and to have this discussion. And this discussion, the same conversation is going on all over the world right now in many circumstances.

[42:44]

Of course we Looking at this koan, everyone wants to save the cat. And as you pointed out, and as Zen Master said, all Chan practice, all Zen practice is simultaneously Zen discourse. And this is, the story is discourse. And the story is a performance. And we also have to talk about, I think, is it only performance or only discourse? Or even if it's only discourse and only performance, is discourse only discourse?

[44:03]

Maybe it's only performance, but maybe a cat actually died. Now... This koan is a perfect example of of one of the turning points between Mahayana and Hinayana.

[45:04]

And In Hinayana, the precepts are to reduce, as we talked about this in the castle, I believe, are to reduce your karma. And as much as possible not to reduce karma. And monastic life and the monk's life is to restrain the senses. He's very sad that the cat was killed.

[46:15]

The schwein. We call him a schwein. Poor baby. Both these koans are sort of, as I said this morning, are turning stories for the opening up of Mahayana Zen in China. Nyan Dogen said that the precept do not kill in Hinayana and the precept do not kill in Mahayana are completely different. So if we look at this story as discourse within Zen Buddhism and within Buddhism, because in... Well, it would be interesting because discourse as an idea is a very modern one in Western... Well, at least it's very modern in a special way through Foucault and Derrida.

[47:46]

And if we knew, if any of you read those philosophers, how does discourse translate into German from the French? In any case. Always say discourse. Okay, let's use the word discourse. So, in the way, as I said again, the rules... The feeling in Mahayana Zen Buddhism is that monastic life, and I'm bringing up monastic life because it's the life of the precepts par excellence,

[49:18]

Is monastic life, again this is where Nangshuan was living with these monks and with Zhaozhou The feeling was that all the rules of monastic life or Zen should be rules that contribute to individual enlightenment and the mutual identity of people practicing together. And all the life should support each other to practice together. And the whole life should be there to support the common practice.

[50:30]

And also there are other factors, which is that the way of doing things and the attitude about doing things is meant to, of course, express the teaching in practice. Okay, so here we have a non-Hinayana Mahayana Zen master and monk. Breaking the Hinayana precept. And in a sense following the Mahayana precept because you can break any precept if it leads to enlightenment. Okay, now that's the discourse up to this point. The problem is that makes this story so classic and complicated is no one realizes enlightenment in the story.

[51:32]

Usually they say, such and such happened, and then, you know, the multitude, or at least one person, realized enlightenment. Jojo expressed enlightenment. But he was pretty clearly enlightened before this incident. So you have a kind of unresolvable situation. And that's what Nanchuan wanted. he basically created, and or the compilers created, an unresolvable situation.

[52:54]

And as Christina said, Eric, you don't see a resolution. The resolution, or the point of this koan, at least part of it, is that it is not resolvable. It's to live in the problem. And there's a word in Japanese which happens to be spelled, I remember that before, aware, A-W-A-R-E. It's pronounced aware. And one of its meanings is to be aware that whether you like it or not, no matter how hard you try, you're always killing.

[53:55]

And here, you know, we have the background, this thinking in the koan is how many cats die under our cars. And no one was enlightened. Maybe some child was made miserable. Or if not under our cars, under our pollution, our overconsumption and so forth. Our inability to act in many of the world crises and the failure when we do act. Or even if you're a strong person, how many weak people are destroyed around you, even your brothers and sisters, without your being aware you've done it? Just in being strong, sometimes a strong monk in a monastery, like who we all would maybe like to be, like Zhaozhou, sometimes wreaks destruction around him among the younger or weaker monks.

[55:27]

And if that's the case with Jajo, how does Jajo take responsibility? How do you become weaker? And how do you fake weakness? To help others. Manjushri's compassion is with a sword. And I know I in the past have been accused myself of of not being tough enough in my compassion, causing more suffering by creating situations trying to be helpful to everyone. At the same time, not understanding people well enough in my own concentration on something or other, but I've been accused of causing suffering that way.

[56:49]

So part of this khan is to create an awareness in you, not just of the story, but the more you enter into life acting with others, And don't live in a dead sphere around yourself or retire to a mountain where you can hurt no one. The more you engage yourself fully, how do you know what the consequences are? These koans won't protect you. They might make you wiser, but they won't protect you.

[58:34]

Now, it's possible that Nanchuan could have done something like Martin here suggested, which is perhaps he... Perhaps he could have held up the cat. And as discourse, he could have said, well, I spare the cat, but I don't spare you. Might have worked. It would have been a language, a teaching situation. But it's also awfully easy for the monks to say, well, we get out of that one again. But at the level of discourse, I think as a story, for the story to be so simple and have so much power that we can see it even in this discussion.

[59:52]

That we really would like to save the cat. And we think something terrible has happened that it hasn't been saved. For the problematic power of this story, the cat has to be killed and no one relies in light. Okay, now that's at the level of the story so that it works in us. But let's imagine this is not just discourse and performance. Like right now I'm speaking with you and is what I'm saying just discourse? Because just discourse won't have much meaning for you.

[61:11]

And there's a certain element of performance in what I'm saying. I mean, I'm sitting here, I've got my Raksu on, and, you know, Ulrike's translating... When we have Herr Pig, I mean Schwein here, and I've been giving lectures for a long time, so obviously there's some craft or skill that comes into my speaking about things. So it's no way, it's not a put-down to say it's performance. There's no way that it's not performance. And how do you cut through the performance? Can the performance cut through the performance?

[62:25]

Or do you have to do what the performance is about to cut through the performance? Well, since we're all human beings we're all involved in performance and performance is real for us. I think you can feel it when you do the mokugyo and lead the service in the zendo. I think it's a performance, you're reading, everybody's chanting, etc. But... Even more than if you were an actor on a stage and you flubbed your lines, I think if you flubbed the chanting, you feel you've made a real mistake.

[63:26]

Something's wrong. So this koan brings up this whole sort of inner penetration of discourse and performance and what reality, what the performance is supposedly performing. But this line of reasoning right now is kind of stuck in discourse. We can also understand, I think, that there's real love between these people here. Now, I can't speak, and I can't forward to... think for Nanchuan in this situation.

[64:57]

Yeah. But the monks clearly, when Nanchuan brought this up about the calf, they were caught. If they were just ordinary villagers and he'd happened in walking through a marketplace, probably somebody would have said, I'll come off at you crazy monk, give me the cat. And if the nun was just passing by normal villagers on a marketplace, then... Sorry, I don't know what your translation is. And if he had done that, they would have probably said, come down from this trip, get off, you crazy guy, and kick us the cat.

[65:58]

So obviously these monks were fighting about this cat. It might have been fairly trivial, you know. And when he held up the cat, they froze. They froze because they were in some kind of real bondage, bonded relationship with Nanchuan. And perhaps like you, they... They felt like you suggested that they trusted Nanchuan. He's taught us so much. He's shown us so much. What will he do? They trusted him, maybe. Shantideva says somewhere, I believe, that there's nothing worse than a good teacher.

[67:04]

Such a teacher makes you completely dependent on his great merit. It's much better to have an enemy who teaches you patience. So you find your own merit and not depend on the teacher's merit. So Nanchuan certainly didn't let them depend on his merit. Even if the Mahayana precepts are understood differently than Hinayana still you usually don't kill things. So he threw away his merit. And here you have the drumming and dancing and singing of the relationship as the relationship describes, as Randy pointed out, between Zhaozhou and Lanzhou.

[68:25]

So what's the relationship here in the field of the relationship between the monks of the two halls and Nanchuan? We don't know And even with such a great teacher as Nanchuan, you know, you wonder, I mean, this person is, if there's anyone in the lineage close to a Buddha, he's pretty close to a Buddha. And yet the monks are fighting about a cat. And they're probably not supposed to have a cat anyway.

[69:26]

Well, they snuck this cat in, probably. And maybe, you know, sometimes it happens even in a... around a teacher that's outstanding and I think it gives us some hope for our own failures that the outstanding is not chuan That maybe among these monks of the two halls There's some kind of bad psychology has gotten started and it happens. And there's two or three people who are creating some kind of pit of darkness. And he may not know what to do about it, even though he has, I'm sure, deep joy in his relationship with Zhaozhou.

[70:37]

No, I can imagine perhaps, you know, sitting, talking with somebody I'm practicing with, and sometimes it crests on me, these large black beetles. I can imagine the beetle might crawl across the table. And I'm talking to this person. And perhaps while we're talking I might pick it up and let it walk on my hand. And perhaps I might get up and take it to the door or window and put it outside. But if my hurt was, if I was hurting deeply enough because of the unresolved place this person was in, with their, say, inability to deal with what's happening to their brother or mother,

[72:15]

or in their relationship with me or with the community. I can imagine also, perhaps, in the middle of a conversation without saying anything, just flattening it with my hand. I've never done that, so I still have my merit. But I can imagine hurting enough to do it and feeling the hurt of the bug too. And this problem with cats comes up in Japanese monasteries all the time. Because cats are not popular in Japan. Pets are not popular in Japan. They don't have our kind of relationship to pets that we do. All of their energy goes into the relationship with people.

[73:43]

Very little of it is transferred to animals. I mean... Well, in any case, I won't give you more examples, but people do have pets and then they have kittens and then nobody knows what to do with the kittens. And they take them to the monasteries and they leave them in the monasteries by the dozens, sometimes many a day. And then they blame the monks. You take care of them, you taught us not to kill But the monks can't take care of a population of cats increasing by ten a day So the monks have to kill them And then the other thing that happens is that the... The Japanese don't want the cat's ghosts or bad karma to follow them.

[75:07]

So the popular superstition results sometimes in they take kittens in a bag And a popular but leads to the fact that you sometimes put the boys in a bag or a bag. I usually tell very good stories about Japan, which makes you think it's glamorous, so this is maybe good that I tell a balancing story. And I've seen this happen. The kid is sent out with a bag full of cats. And then they ride their bicycle and then they find a wall and they heave it against the wall to kill or stun the cats.

[76:09]

And then they ride off real fast on that bicycle. And you know they're riding in the opposite direction from their home. So they don't want the cat spirit to be able to follow them. They get out fast and confuse them by going in a different direction. So being a poor, sentimental American was rescued many cats from rain gutters Where they've been thrown in rainstorms with a flashlight and reaching into sewers. I mean, really, I've done this a lot. Or getting them out of the bag and trying to take care of them. And at some point I was forced to start killing them.

[77:12]

I couldn't take them all, and it cost something like $40 or $50 to have each one put away by the vet. And the vet said, why don't you do it? Why do I have to do it for you? It's your car, Mike. The vets really didn't, and I couldn't afford to do this more than once or twice a month, or even once. So I tried various ways to eliminate the population while I kept about five or six of them. But at some point in a little house, you can't have more than that. So one of the worst ways I tried was with a car exhaust.

[78:28]

Oh, God. And they wouldn't die. I kept looking into it. And no one was enlightened. But you can't just abandon them because they get thrown by cars and picked up by the... by the toy fur trade. Like what? Some people go out and get them and sell them to toy stores, toy companies, to make animals that have fur. You can't let them walk around like that because they might be caught by some people who want to make toys out of fur. It was one of the most horrible parts of my life in Japan, trying to deal with all these cats. It's very clear when you put a mouse down the toilet. And he or she swims against the current. They are very little different than you and I. Anyway, enough sob stories.

[79:50]

So what are we going to do about this cat? How are we going to follow the precepts? How are we going to live in an over-consuming Western country while so much of the third world suffers? At least we have to know we're in this predicament, I think. We have dinner right now, or at 6.15?

[80:57]

6.30. We would need a little time for dinner, too. Okay, so I'll stop in one or two minutes. I love this thing about a piece of karmic ground. Here we are on a piece of karmic ground. Okay, I really appreciate everything everyone said. I feel one thing this koan brings up is Really, the simpler and deeper question of how do you practice? You know, it's always difficult to enter a sesshin. If it's not difficult or some sort of transition, it's not a sesshin.

[82:00]

And koans have this quality too. They're always a little difficult to enter. And as Christine said, how do you be aware that each moment, the consequence of your life, On the one hand, we don't think about it. But if you look carefully at your life, there's a lot of casualties the longer you go without thinking about it. So how do we clean up our act? Stop shitting inside And so you do sattva So we come here to this seminar and we somehow look at a koan like this and stop our usual mind.

[83:44]

And how does Nanchuan, in a monastery, Nanchuan stops these monks of the two halls, usual mind, by this outrageous act presumably of cutting a cat in two. And here it is raining in northern Germany. And has it been fall all summer here? Oh yeah, so now it's fall. It's an improvement. But for me this is fall. It's somewhat wintry. And I hear the silence of the migrating birds. Und ich höre das Schweigen der wandelnden Vögel, der Zugvögel, die wohl schon weg sind.

[85:09]

And sometimes the sutras are called amusing a child with golden leaves. Manchmal heißt es in den sutram ein Kind zu erfreuen mit goldenen Blättern. But performance or not, the golden leaves falling on the pond are sure beautiful. So we're in a transition here into this koan and into the sashin for some of us. The weather is changing. And we kind of, as Randy said to me, somber heart. So how do, entering a koan like this, if you enter a koan like this, it's a kind of transition where there's a price or consequences.

[86:18]

And although we're not going to kill a cat, I hope, we actually don't know what will happen. But I'm very glad to be here with you water buffaloes. I'm very glad to be here with all of you Thank you very much Thank you for coming I'm getting harder and harder to translate That's because you're getting better and better

[86:51]

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