Does anyone have anything they'd like to say to this subject of Sangha or what we've talked about so far? I would like to make a little remark towards the dharmic space, we have this new zender in Göttingen and once in a while new people show up and it's quite interesting to just watch them. When they come in, they step in and stop. And they say, oh, it's nice here. That's all they can say. They feel it's a room that is used for a different activity and they can't exactly tell what it is. And then we had some people who came from other groups and they said that meditation itself has a different quality in a room that is used only for meditation or only for satsang.

[01:16]

That they can feel the difference if it's a multifunctional room or just a meditation room. I wanted to make a small remark about it. We have this program in Göttingen and when new people come who have nothing to do with sitting at all, they step into the room and stay there for the time being because they feel that it is a completely different room than they are used to and say, oh, that's nice here. And then they ask about it. And then there are people who come from other groups and say that it makes a difference whether a room is only used for meditation or for other things. So these multi-functional rooms, which are also used for meditation and yoga, feel different than rooms that are only used for meditation. Someone else? Yeah. The room-in-the-room discussion. We have an old-fashioned eta, which actually is space, like space that goes through all the elements.

[02:24]

Ether. Ether, yeah. I don't know if this would be the space in the room, eta room. Yeah. It goes back to Greek, doesn't it? I guess so, yeah. One thing Grimm showed is how almost... I mean, most of our words go back to Greek and Latin. And what the colonial British administrators found out in India... Because they often knew some German and French and English. And while they were in India, they learned Urdu and Hindi. And then they learned that there was a a dead language like Latin, Sanskrit,

[03:38]

And when they studied Sanskrit, they saw, hey, these look like European words. So the whole idea of an Indo-European route to words occurred fairly recently through British colonial, you know, scholar administrators in India. And Grimm was part of this thinking. And so people began to see that, hey, we're connected in ways through languages going back in the past in some kind of almost genetic way.

[04:44]

Before that, before contemporary philology developed, it was thought it was all the Tower of Babel and somehow it was all thought of in biblical terms. So I'm just asking a lot of questions this morning. What is our relationship to each other? We share... Yeah, language.

[05:45]

Peter, when you move your foot, is that like raising your hand to say something? I should do something. Do exercise. I thought you were waving at me. It's my fan. Yeah, I see. I'm your fan. Okay. Anyone else? Yes. It's also interesting to see when people come and sit with us and doing service like this morning and doing that together how we depend on defining the space by thinking and looking with our eyes and how difficult it is sometimes to just feel the space and then know and somehow feel to do in that space and how confusing that can be and there is just a space through feeling a lot so much, through looking around and thinking and defining the space with the eyes.

[06:57]

Yeah, Deutschmethod. It's always interesting to see when people come here and don't know the process yet and how important it is at the beginning to look with your eyes and how much that is connected to the thinking and to define the space through the looking. Yeah, that's one of the basic rules, explicit rules in a Zendo. Is you don't look around. You hear around, but you don't look around.

[08:01]

You check up on things through your ears, primarily. What does that mean? Try it out. I know. The last two days I was in Freiburg, so I was riding my bicycle around doing errands. You really have to check up. I was noticing how much I shift my attention to my ears when I'm riding a bicycle. And talking with some people the other day, I said, when you study a koan, as much as possible shift your attention to your ears. as you're studying the koan.

[09:07]

It's the best advice I've ever given for studying koans. Someone else. How? I learned that in the American movies. You meet an Indian, how? Hey, white man. Not many left nowadays. Oh, yeah. Not in my day. It would be politically incorrect now. Especially in our country. Oh, yeah. It wasn't far away. When extrapolating what Gerald said, if there is a room, like the Zendo, where only sitting takes place, or dharmic practice, and you enter that room and it's a different feel than if it was a multifunctional room, that would mean that... something stayed in the room or well this is getting difficult for me but it and I know the feeling but what is then what is what is it that's making a difference then if there's a different feel in a room

[10:25]

Okay. Deutsch bitte, please, since you're the translator. Regarding what Gerald said, if there is a room that is exclusively for sitting, as a dharmic practice, and that feels different than a multifunctional room, and I think many of us know the feeling, or all of us, what is it, so to speak, that makes it happen? So what is it exactly, how does it come about that it feels different? This is good. If we think of space as some kind of ether, space-like substance that pervades everything.

[11:41]

This is related to the idea of vitalism. which vitalism and ether are both denied by contemporary science. But homeopathy, who was the founder of homeopathy? Hahnemann. He had an idea that was basically some idea of a vital force pervading the body. I've read that nowadays practitioners of homeopathy don't take that view. If not publicly or explicitly. Is there some memory retained in the space?

[12:46]

of the previous activities. Now, you have to think about what do you think? And this is maybe the key difference between Hinduism and Buddhism. What came to my mind, I noticed for the first time the new gate in the garden. Before, when I arrived yesterday evening, I sent Otmar the photos and I expected it, I imagined it, it's thought-provoking to see more. I'll take a look at the gate, I looked yesterday, well, quite nice and so on.

[14:00]

What my head sent photos to me before. So I approached it yesterday and thinkingly, so to say, oh, let's see how this looks like with this image in myself from the photos. But today, after Zazen, I went out. And suddenly the gate stood there. But it didn't have the name gate. It was much bigger. It was an immense presence. Yeah. I mean, it's a good statement. We made it ourselves. We didn't buy it at one of these big shops where you buy gates and fences. And the simple statement of it of its physical presence says something about what we're doing here.

[15:06]

But for any Japanese person at present it would be a sign that we're practicing pantheism and not Buddhism. Because it's right now, until we get the roof on it, it looks like a Shinto gate. And we mostly don't know the difference, but if you're Japanese, you'd say, hmm... The god of the stream is up there controlling everything. Yeah, because like Kyoto has the Kamigamo Jinja. Jinja means shrine. In Kyoto there is the Kamigamo shrine.

[16:22]

Kamigamo, Kamigawa, Kamigawa. Anyway, it means the kami, the spirit of the watershed that is the imminence of Kyoto. That means the spirit of this water shrine, so to speak, which lives within Kyoto. Kyoto was chosen for its watershed. I mean, that's why they put the city there. What exactly is a watershed? It's... Scheibe? Scheibe? Scheide. Scheide. Ah, ja. Aha. He had an aha experience. Also die Wasserscheide. Weil Kyoto ist dort gegründet worden, eben wegen, weil es der Platz einer Wasserscheide ist. Yeah. And so they feel that this Jinja with a gate like that one, except painted red, represents the spirit within which Kyoto was built.

[17:34]

And it's a kind of god, kami. And if we find Otmar up there bowing to the pond, we all know that that's what he intended. Incarnation, of course. Okay. So, you know, they had this whole controversy some years ago about water carries information and, you know, anyway, let's not go into that. When the pre-Buddhist and maybe contemporary Hindu meditates.

[18:40]

I don't know enough about Hinduism to really say if this is the case. But it seems that the teaching The pedagogy of meditation is when you meditate, you're searching for some mysterious big self that permeates everything. So that within the physical body, And the physical world, there's some kind of subtle self that pervades everything. What Buddhism says, you know, in the early texts of sutras, the Buddha sat and became calm and his mind became serene and subtle. And he bent and applied his noticing.

[19:54]

He bent and applied his noticing, his attention. Bent and applied his attention. To knowledge and vision. And when he applied his attention to knowledge and vision, he discovered that the body was material. made from the four elements, and left out the fifth element of space, which Hinduism emphasizes, the pervading space.

[21:01]

So Hinduism had five elements, earth, fire, water, air, and space. Hinduism had five elements, And in Buddhism, early Buddhism, there's only four. So it's a material body that's impermanent. Made of the four elements. There's no mysterious stuff there. Born of parents. And depending on rice and food and so forth. Yeah. Now that's quite practical. But it's a different, it's a paradigm shift. It's a different world view.

[22:02]

Okay, so from the point of view of Buddhism, you wouldn't say that the space retained some ghost-like quality from its previous activity. Now, we're not talking science here. It can be science. But the importance is not whether it's exactly true or not. It says that this emphasis is the better, more productive worldview than the emphasis on some mysterious, pervading substance. Now, I've said often, so you know, what is the etymology of the word sacred?

[23:08]

What does it mean? It means dedicated to a single purpose. Something feels sacred when it's dedicated to a single purpose. So the idea is to design a so it's clear you can't use it for anything else. So we want to design this building so it can't be used for anything else. Well, it could be a youth hostel. But we tried to design it so it's not too useful as a youth hostel.

[24:25]

Nor as a conference center. Et cetera. And you can see that the use of this building since the early 20th century has not been a farm, at least, for the most of its tenure, its years. Because, you know, if you look at this from above, there's a lot of trees here and all kinds of things, and around it there aren't many trees. If you look at it from above, you can see that there are a lot of trees along the house, which are not around it. Yes.

[25:26]

Okay, someone else? Yes? What distinguishes the meditators from the cleaners in the broadcast? What is the difference between the meditating person and the cleaning person and the Zendo? He's the Chidin speaking. She's the Chidin? Yeah. You're cheating hard. That's an English cowboy song. Hank Williams. Hank Williams. Oh, wow. You're cheating hard. Well, there's, from one point of view, no difference. And you're trying to take care of the Zendo so that it can be used for meditation.

[26:36]

But if we hired a painter to come in here from the neighborhood, or a plumber, and they were in the Zendo, there'd probably be a pretty clear difference. But if we hire a painter or a carpenter from the neighborhood or from the neighborhood here who worked in the Sendo, then we probably have a clear difference. So your activity as the Chidin is influenced, of course, by the fact that you're also a meditator. But there's still some difference. You're walking around and so forth. You walk around in the Sendo and so on. Okay. What would you like to say? Is my activity not a Buddha activity? Well, I hope so. I hope it is. But it's not a somatic activity necessarily.

[27:44]

I mean, again, when you're asleep, it's not waking. So the posture of sleeping has a great deal to do With sleeping. And the posture of zazen, the activity and non-activity of zazen has a lot to do with samadhi. But as the chidin, you can function within that, but still it's a different activity. Okay. Yes, behind you. I don't know if I got everything right about the elements. Is it so that in Buddhism four elements are four of existing?

[29:02]

Well, yeah, sort of existing. So an art existing, yeah? And what is it that we can perceive as a connecting space or that we can perceive that a space was used for something else? So what is that? So this spatial... What is it that we... What is it that we... Tell me again the first part of the sentence, please. What is it that we can perceive? The connecting space, that we can notice the connecting space, that we can feel what has been taking place or is taking place, like meditation.

[30:04]

Is it some kind of energy? What is it? It's not only about meditation, but if I haven't been in my living room for a long time, then I come back to this different room. When I've had visitors, my flat is then afterwards different than it has been before, than it was before. I don't know exactly what meaning or what impact this space has in Buddhism. Well, the question, of course, is... feeling in you or is the feeling in the physical apartment or house?

[31:09]

I'm not trying to answer it. I'm just saying which is it or is it both? What do we think? What do we feel? It's like a phenomenon for me. What does that mean? It's a fact? Does that mean it's... In English phenomenon can mean a number of things. It can mean the fact of things or it can mean it's like a ghost. I mean more in the sense of when I hear something and then It's more like something like when I hear something and I take the label away, then I feel the field. In that context. Yeah, I understand.

[32:09]

Okay. Yeah, so this is part of our, one of the ingredients of our soup here. Andreas? One aspect that came to my mind about Sangha is the common mutual experience of practice. When I'm sitting here and being mindful and feeling things, it's different when I listen to that in another context somewhere else. It's more connected.

[33:28]

It's not so yes or no. It's more inclusive. That would be a difference for me. And I would say that if I say I have a community with other people, And when I'm in a community with other people, I don't have this experience. You mean another community than this community? Yeah. I don't have that. Else I would have to start practicing. Hmm. Yes. For me, it's also a feeling when you said that, it's like we all have been, most of us have been practicing for some time, also together, but what's different now is that sort of, it's like, I wouldn't have the word, but if you had your sort of private experience, it's sort of like, hmm,

[34:31]

turning inside out, so to say. It's not public because it's sort of common. It's not the contrary of private, but it's become common, but it's different than public. I don't know how to say that. But it's a felt you can utter, tell your experiences, and it's not an outside, so to say. Uh huh. Okay, good. The main question was what makes a room into a special room.

[35:45]

If it's not the information in an Aether-like medium, so it must be translated in the form of that room, the way it is arranged. But then if foreigners, newcomers come in this prepared room, where the information for that one purpose is stored in the way it is laid out. Now, how do they... The scent that you find on top of the hill is the scent you bring with you. So in this case, there must be a remembrance, a resonance of that stored information in the form of the room. Let them say, oh, this is beautiful. So if it's not in a etheric information, it must be in the form. Deutsch, bitte. Wenn also die Information, von der du besprochen hast, die man spürt, nicht in a medium phenomenon oder

[36:48]

in the space, then it has to be in the way in which the space has been started. The information has to be in there, in the four elements. If the fifth element of the information is not ready, then the four other elements have to be there, and that can only be the form. What makes my visitors say, oh, that's nice, that means it has to resonate a little with them, from this one intention, which one takes in the center, which is transformed, which is placed in the form. That is, the one who is not dependent, who comes into the center and says, well, let's see if the Buddha is dead. That is, there must already be a certain, a certain Okay, thanks. Yeah.

[38:02]

Maybe we also can say, I mean, no matter how nice the zendo is and how nice and well it is, everything arranged, the altar and all these little things, but it needs the sounder to create that feeling, just the room and just nice things putting in there. that doesn't create the feeling, it needs just both, so it needs all of us to just create the feeling, so then we are again with the activity. So we do the activity. We do it, yeah. And it's hard to do that in some sort of hall. For example, in Berlin we kind of put the things together because it's just a yoga room they use for different things during the week, create a Sangha, an activity room just on a Sunday morning sitting, and it's for sure different if the things stay in there, but it needs the people to create that space. Deutsch, bitte.

[39:03]

Ich glaube, es ist auch sehr wichtig, und wenn die Frage ist, was ist Sangha, egal wie schön der Sender eingerichtet ist und wie toll das alles ist, es braucht wirklich die Sangha, die Leute, die da drin reingehen und den by being there to make a broadcast out of it. And just putting nice things in there and arranging everything correctly, as it should be, doesn't make the feeling yet. I think even our electricians can feel that, who have nothing to do with it at all. And they go into the transmitter differently than they come into the kitchen with us. That's, for example, what also Kultminar can feel. He enters the kitchen and he has to fix the light there in a different way than he enters the Zen. Also, he has no big idea what we are doing there. And our kitchen is probably different than other kitchens that he enters.

[40:04]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to say, our kitchen is better or worse or something like that. But it's just that if a group of people take care of a kitchen in a certain way, You can feel it. You can walk into a kitchen and know that somebody who really is interested in cooking cooks there, and somebody who is not interested in cooking, you can feel the difference. Okay. So I take the... In my actions, I take the position, the view, that the information is stored in the way the room is used. So when I come back here from the United States, as I did a few days ago, When I walk in the door, I immediately look at the

[41:19]

the bench and the flowers and the shoes and so forth? Are the shoes just scattered around or are they kind of put in some order? Are the people using the space in a way that's not kind of busy thinking or is it used in some sort of way where each thing has a conceptual clarity? One of the examples of one of the characteristics of a meditation center, particularly Zen, is each thing has conceptual clarity. And all of our actions have conceptual clarity. Like when we do kin-hin.

[42:36]

And it's ending. Someone rings the bell. And you're doing kin-hin. You don't. Just then bow. You bring your feet together. They're usually that far apart. So you hear the bell. Ding. Put your feet together. After they're together you bow. You don't bow at the same time. Each thing has conceptual clarity. Then you bow and then you don't start walking until you... until you return to the vertical. Then from there you walk. And whoever the leaders are should be very precise in how they do that.

[43:36]

And whoever is leading this should be very precise in the way he is doing it. Even if they are holding a Rokkese or a Rokkese. There is a rest position. In case the Doshi doesn't come for half an hour. The third round can be very long. And then this is the more formal position. You're kind of offering it. And then on the head. Then your hands down. Then your hands up. And this distance from the nose. Each thing, each action has conceptual clarity. If you do that, and if the space exhibits this, it allows you to begin to see your thoughts and actions as precisely as possible.

[44:45]

appearances in some kind of wider, maybe connecting space. Okay. This is all related to like having dividing line or having zazen really separate from social space. So if you do have social space before, never before, but after zazen, You try to separate it real clearly from the zazen space. Okay. Now, when you go into the zendo... Now, ideally... I mean, you can't in a city, but ideally you have a garden like we have, some kind of garden.

[46:15]

And in the Zendo we're designing in the bed and breakfast in Boulder. Und in dem Sender, den wir gestalten, wie zum Beispiel bei den Breakfast in Boulder? Yes, we're not renting it, we own it, so we can do what we want. As long as the city agrees. Wir mieten es ja nicht, es gehört uns, und insofern, soweit die Stadt anverstanden ist, können wir machen, was wir wollen. We're going to keep around it some windows, fairly high up. Da wollen wir drumherum ziemlich hoch gelegen Fenster haben. And instead of expanding it into the little space that's there, which is about from here to the middle of the cushion, we're going to plant bamboo. So when you're in the zendo, you see this line of windows all the way around with bamboo. Outside, there's the street in one of the most busy streets in Boulder, Arapaho Avenue.

[47:20]

Arapaho, an American Indian word. Um... Because the garden traditionally is part of the zendo. So when you're in the zendo, and ideally you're starting to sit before first light, then the sound of the birds at first light becomes part of your zazen. then when, as Neil said, It's like you're turned inside and not out into public space.

[48:27]

You hear things from inside. It's like you're hearing the inside of the birds. And then you're also maybe hearing the inside of various stomach noises. It's interesting. I can recognize almost everyone's sneezes. I can recognize their coughs. That's who they belong to. I can't recognize their stomach noises. Not that I'm sitting here thinking, now, whose stomach is that? But I really don't know. It's just in the... In the field of sound.

[49:30]

So you hear the water in the pond, water rubbing against itself. And you hear the stomach noises inside of the birds. And occasionally the inside of a truck engine off somewhere. And this all makes a kind of field without distance. It's all just present in the same territory. That's a different space. It's a different space than when you look and you see, oh, that's over there and this is here. All the sounds are here. I mean, you know that the truck must be far away. But you don't know that from the sound.

[50:36]

You only know that because you know what a truck up close sounds like. It might not be a truck. It might be the... The harmony of the spheres. So that's one of the reasons we don't look around in the Zendo is because you want to develop this Space without distance. And if you have a Zendo in the city, you have to think about, how can I get somehow close to that? Now, In the Sangha, when we meet someone, do we meet them in a space without distance?

[51:52]

What is our relationship to another person? Is it a space that separates? Or a space that connects? Or a space that doesn't even have to connect? It's just a space without distance. I don't think a dolphin... has any idea of empty space. They're fully in a connected space. Now, I'm talking about this... these basic things, space, you know, like one of the most basic things in all philosophy, in all mythology and so forth. Where do we form ourselves? And where do we relate to each other?

[53:00]

These are the basic questions that Sangha is trying to answer and develop. Yeah, okay. That's good enough so far, getting started, warmed up. So we don't shake hands. We can, but we also just put our hands together. Disappearing into some kind of space that we mutually generate. Generate from our body. So let's have lunch.

[53:57]

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