So please engage me. I'm very impressed from your talking of this inner attentional space. My feeling is that for a long time I have been waiting for a teaching like that. Oh, they should have told me earlier. Because there are certain experiences that come to me. Because it just needs certain experience. Is it like hitting? And it just feels different when, that's what I'm feeling now, it feels different when it's also used to verbalize.

[01:06]

And it just feels differently if it's expressed and verbalized like it did. And also my feeling is that it's useful and appropriate to use this to increase this kind of inner attention that has been there already to some extent. Okay, you've engaged me. We can set the date later. Oh, Gerlinda, I'm sorry. It's also very interesting What is very interesting for me is how it can succeed or work to join this inner attentional space and the outer attentional space.

[02:17]

At the moment it doesn't work like communicating vessels that flow into each other. So either I am on this side or I am on the other side. Yes. And it seems that breath makes it possible to join them. So if I'm in the outer attentional space, by breath I can somehow establish a kind of wake contact with the inner attentional space. The more I breathe back and draw my attention back from the outside, the denser this granule becomes.

[03:41]

And the more I follow my breath and somehow withdraw from the outer attentional space, the more a granular, dense, this inner attentional space becomes. And I wonder, I'm asking myself, when I'm in the inner space, whether when I'm in this inner attentional space in a deepening kind of way, whether when I'm in this inner attentional space in a deepening kind of way, whether when I'm in this inner attentional space in a deepening kind of way, whether this joining can also happen through phenomena appearing within the inner attentional space.

[04:49]

And the last one again, please. Whether perception of... whether the perception of phenomena in the inner attentional space could also be a way to join these two attentional spaces. I don't know. Well, this we should explore. Okay. Yes? You're just moving your head. Victory? I mean, Vicky? What would you like to say? In Hungarian, it's all right.

[05:52]

No one can translate. I'm not sure. Perhaps I can say what I said yesterday in the meeting. But I'll have to stay out there. I'm not sure. I haven't had me. to be more attentive, more aware of my inner and outer space. So this inner and outer, where is inner and outer? We're talking about the top, right? Because of this experience of creating this Buddha body.

[06:55]

To do this together. Together. talking and sitting and working. Then I notice when we have a session, for example, that after a few days people are more settled. that after a few days, when people have let themselves down more, then a kind of harmonization arises, and this Buddha body emerges again.

[08:00]

Then I am more patient with myself and others. And then I can observe how I go through these first ten days. Because it became clear during the hour of... Thank you. Gerhard. For me, being and staying within this inner attentional space feels much more nourishing.

[09:06]

then turning your attention outside. But at the moment I'm not really sure about this boundary. And probably, or it may well be, the solution is within a kind of fusing it, so there is no separation any longer. But what we spoke about yesterday is how outer attentional space is shaped by the sensorium. And if we don't think of space as container space or an entity, then the medium of space generated through or merges through the sensorium has a different crepuscular viscosity than the inner attentional space generated through attention.

[11:07]

And inner attentional space has the quality of content-free space of unstructured space and also of a medium for involuntary appearances. like dreaming mind has involuntary appearances. An outer attentional space is not so open to involuntary So there is a distinction you can notice between inner and outer attentional space. They overlap or have similar qualities because they are both generated through attention.

[12:25]

But their difference is useful. Nanjuan says, one of his most famous statements is, we live within different kinds. So we do want to relate things, but we want to be careful not to conflate things. Okay. So that was yesterday, you want to hear yourself. Evelyn? We were sitting within the mosses and between the trees. Within the mosses or the mouses? Moss. On the moss. And on the chairs.

[13:46]

Okay. A group of people where I had the feeling they didn't talk to each other so often. Or not at all. Maybe they didn't meet before even. I felt this gift that I have received through practice period and which I can unpack all the time if I want to. And this somehow also it was possible to apply it here, to experience this as one body.

[15:14]

And my feeling was when we were sitting in this circle that together we were exploring a mutual inner attentional space. and the special thing because we don't know each other who we are so well so my feeling was because of that we were quite tender with this So maybe a little shy and hesitant and awkward in the beginning. And there was a very exciting kind of weaving with a lot of space. And when we looked more closely to the ground on this moss there we saw that everything was moving.

[16:49]

We were in the midst of ants. And there was no line from here to there, but it was just all movement all over and workings going on. Sometimes they go into rooms in great streams around here and Georgiou and I have watched them. Do you know the ants in the pants dance? I've heard the phrase. I've never experienced it. What is ants in the pants? Okay. Okay. Tatsächlich hatte ich nachher den Eindruck, wir haben in dieser Gruppe, in dieser Runde einen

[17:57]

So in fact in this group afterwards I had the feeling that we explored with each other a mutual inner attentional space. So this was an experience of how to develop a body together like maybe a bunch of deer or birds. And we here together, we also experienced that. And I'm grateful for that. One, I said a number of times what is the advantage of my expressing this yesterday and today.

[19:03]

And I said that while any regular practitioner will inevitably have some experience of what I spoke about. The fact that I spoke about it gives it emphasis in your own practice, can give it emphasis in your own practice, something that it makes sense to intentionally notice. Now if that intentional, intentional noticing of this distinction between outer and inner space is explored and discovered by us, it then also will become a way implicitly

[20:14]

in whatever we say we can feel in the other how it arises from inner and outer attentional space. And in a way we can say this kind of shared experience each in different kinds, is the essence of Sangha. And now we have not only a distinction between inner and outer attentional space, we find we are more living and probably becoming aware of the distinction between Sangha and non-Sangha. As we may have some feeling of distinction between lay and monastic practice.

[21:51]

And I think when we notice those distinctions, we can then begin to see how everyone, all sentient life and being is part of the Sangha. But if we don't actually feel the distinction, then those saying such things like that are just words. Okay. Now, As you know, most of you know, I came here to Europe in 1983 or so. I needed a change, let's put it that way. I came with no plans to practice Buddhism with people or anything. And I was asked to give lectures on a variety of subjects for some reason or other.

[23:03]

But I was unable to completely hide the fact that I practiced Buddhism. I'm not a very good deceptor. So then I started practicing people. That began to change the relationships among the people. It went from a somewhat increasing group of friends in Europe to an increasing group of friends who began to share practice. And then there was a change when the practice became more regular.

[24:16]

And then there was a change, which I resisted for a while, when I finally decided to start doing Sashim. And then sashins became an ingredient in this shared sangha friendship. And we began to look at the way in which we were developing as a lay sangha with a monastic component, as you hear me say. And then we got... And then we got Yohanesov. And that there was a residential group who lived at Yohanesov And there was a physical place we could all go together.

[25:25]

Like an auditorium can help develop a music scene. I was struck recently because I did some study of the first gallery in Los Angeles. And a bunch of artists in San Francisco and Los Angeles who had no identity much, suddenly through the gallery, the West Coast art scene was created. And then from then on people said the New York art scene, the West Coast art scene. And that began to change the artists too.

[26:27]

So then there was the institutional ingredient in addition to the sashin and the residences, the resident practitioners. And now we did our first European practice period. And I'm just, you know, there's a scientist hidden in me, not so hidden in me. A sociologist too. And I'm just observing or wanting to observe how his practice period now a component of our shared lay and monastic practice. So, in this seminar so far, Christina and Victorie

[27:53]

That's my new name for you. And Tara and you two and so forth, this is an ingredient in our practice now. And even though Eric wasn't at the practice period and Gerhard wasn't, Maybe the practice period has somehow come into your practice too, even though you weren't there. I mean, you got married to the practice. This is interesting. That was enough of... I don't know why I said all that. I thought it was going to be one or two sentences. And I want to speak about the site of practice, the site. But first I'd like to hear what Tara was going to say.

[29:09]

Tara, first of all, has a question to the inner and outer attentional space. Because now you said it again that the outer dimensional space is perceived by the sensorium. Is shaped by the sensorium. But we can also say perceived. It startled me. So I hear a sound. So I perceive it by my sense organ. In the meditation I'm noticing that this sound is within me and now I'm only that sound.

[30:45]

Is this the inner attentional space or outer attentional space? So that's where I'm confused. And when I'm looking at my organs, First of all, I'm noticing my heartbeat, I'm hearing my heartbeat, and then I'm noticing a change. So I'm just trying to work out what is inside and what is outside. It's a plastic clear. No, it's crystal clear. Well, of course, experientially, everything is inside.

[32:06]

But if there was no outside, we wouldn't have much experiential insight. Okay. Let's Let's make space more like clay. So when we're shaping outer attentional space, So I'm saying clay instead of viscous or granular. Clay is? Clay like a potter uses. So I'm using clay as an image instead of viscosity or granular. Okay. Each moment is unique. Each moment is different. There's nothing that's general and uniform.

[33:20]

So if your senses shape space through external information, And in a way that consciousness probably is going to act in it, walk through the room, move a chair or something. You're actualizing that outer space so that you can do things like move the chair and stuff like that. Okay. Now, when you hear the bird or something inside, and you become that hearing of the bird, which of course, as I would say over and over again, is not the hearing of the bird, it's the hearing of your own hearing hearing the bird,

[34:30]

That creates the third skanda, a percept-only mind. And since percept-only mind, almost eliminates the subject-object distinction. When the subject-object distinction is reduced or eliminated, we may feel a kind of bliss as if the world is embracing us or caressing us.

[35:33]

Caressing us from the inside. Okay. Now, if you bring attention to that, that's been caused by your zazen, by the hearing the bird, by various factors which create percept-only mind. If you now bring attention to that and experience it spatially, then you've created a percept-only attentional space mind. Which is not the same space in which you move a chair. Okay. you can think of it the same, but it's more useful to think of it as different.

[36:50]

Because the more you live in this inner attentional space, and that's the primary a definition of your lived space. And you extend or you feel that lived space extending into the space in which you move a chair. But the inner attentional space begins to feel and be more fundamental. Then you've created the space in which enlightenment can occur.

[37:54]

Then we would call the space the Bodhi Mandala. Bodhi, enlightenment, mandala, space that you created where enlightenment can happen. So when Chandrakirti says, make the mindful observation of the body the point of departure, No. I only know the translation using the word departure. So I don't know what the original word is. But departure is sort of nice. You get on the Dharma train and... You push the little green lit button and the door opens.

[39:08]

And then you get in and the train takes over. You don't have to worry about moving the chair, you just have to find a seat. But the train is doing most of the work. And you can be attentive to the movement of the train. So again Chandrakirti is saying discover a way to create an initial mind From which you open up your practice. This is for practitioners. You're using your body as the talismanic cue. And now you're using the body, not from your outside conception of the body,

[40:27]

But you're using the body as a talismanic cue. Cue. Cue. A key or a cue, like... Didn't we use the word cue yesterday? You can translate it differently. I try it out. Sometimes it's a key and sometimes it's a cue. Okay. Okay. So, it's interesting, Q supposedly came from Shakespeare using the word from quandary. Yeah, a quandary is to not know what to do. So, to not know what to do is like the actor is going to come in and when does he come in?

[41:42]

Der Schauspieler kommt herein und wann kommt er herein? Well, the word quand is when. Und dieses when, also dieses wann, das steckt in dieser quand-race. So Shakespeare supposedly changed it, shortened it to q. The q is the quinn. It's coming now. This is when do you come in? Und der Shakespeare hat das verkürzt zu diesem q. Also das ist so was wie das Auftrittsstichwort, glaube ich. And q... In theater work, we have positions where things happen. So it can be... An actor coming up, it can be the light changing or something. They're all cues. So you're using to say, to notice your breath can be a cue to notice your breath.

[43:00]

And the cue that you use in pool That comes from, like cue a line, from a pigtail. Like when you sit behind a girl in class and you take her pigtail. She's protecting herself. You don't need to know all this stuff, it just interests me. So the cue, again, as I said yesterday, the bodhisattva does not contemplate the physical body. The bodhisattva contemplates the physical body in relationship to the body of attentional space.

[44:11]

Now that's a very different instruction. But not different from what Chandra Kirti said. Because Chandra Kirti says the point of departure is the mindful attention to the body. Chandra Kirti says the point of departure is So that's where you can understand better, we're not practicing mindfulness of the body, we're practicing bodyfulness of the body. Because if I say, mindful of the body, there's all a subject-object distinction. So now, bodyfulness of the body, the leg stepping shows you what a leg is. The foot shows you what a foot is.

[45:39]

And that's a different way of moving physically in the world. So you start, your initial mind is a bodhimandala mind and you extend that space into your activity. And quoting Tara, is this crystal clear? And Michael, you were going to say something. And then we go to lunch. Okay. So it fits thematically. Okay, because you're going to talk about past.

[46:40]

An example for experiencing outer world as inner... because it is an interaction happening with objects but there is a lot of relatedness to the inner attentional space so there is this alignment touch yeah I never understand how people can do sashins and things like that I think you can eliminate the oriole key it's the one it's one of the key places you can use the the the physical, musical instruments of monastic practice.

[48:01]

To be able to develop this overlap of monastic and lay practice. I'd like to say one thing well we have plenty of time actually but I think we should stop since lunch is 12.30 and what I'd like to say now won't take 20 minutes Maybe it will take two or three. Koan 9 of the Shoyaroku starts with scholars plow with the pen. Orators plow with the tongue. I mean, I'm right now an orator.

[49:20]

I don't think that you are. But in any case... But the idea is you're turning the soil of the situation. So the scholar turns the soil of texts and sutras and language And Dogen says, for example, don't let the sutras turn you, you turn the sutra. So scholars plow with the pen Orators plow with the tongue.

[50:21]

But we hatched robed mendicants lazily watch a white ox on the open ground. Well done. What do you do for a living? I lazily watch a white ox. And then it goes on to say paying no attention to the rootless auspicious grass. What a great team we have here. Yes. And you're so open to being helped. This is great. I do too. That's why you're here.

[51:21]

Thank you. Okay, and now it helps to know that grass in general in Buddhism represents the 10,000 things. So rootless grass, rootless would mean that it's not caused, which means it's the expression of emptiness. And yet it is auspicious because it's transformative. So he's saying something like Nanchuan is saying something like when he talks about the white ox.

[52:27]

We human beings are so conscious Let's look at our more animal side. Like this koan says, cats and dogs get it. That's another koan about the ox. So that is sort of like, it's a way of saying in Zen, pay attention to your inner attentional space. Which, I mean, Nanchuan says somewhere, Since I was a youth, I've been taking care of a white ox.

[53:28]

No, he says a water buffalo. And then he says, I heard it on the east of the valley. But I don't let it eat any of the water plants, water buffalo, water plants. And I heard it on the west side of the valley. And I don't let it eat any of the water plants in that country either. But now that I'm old, it eats a bit here and there, anywhere. And no one can see it. Okay.

[54:39]

So we have this wonderful, meaningless statement. West of what valley? East of what valley? Sounds like a location. And then he calls it a country. I don't want to meet the water plants in that country. and yeah so the mendicant us we don't have a way to live we live by begging we're mendicants street people yeah and the orators plow the tongue Scholars plow with the pen. But we patch-robed men against lazily watching oxen on the white ground.

[55:45]

Paying no attention even to the rootless, auspicious grass of the 10,000 things. Of course, sometimes this person is, we could say in conventional language, is an orator. And sometimes he may be scholarly. But the more definitive part of his life is when he creates this bodhi mandala. and he's in a realm of the uncaused and he expresses that by saying I lazily watch a white ox on the open ground

[56:46]

And the open ground is following the world. within the inner attentional space. And by chance, because this whole teaching of Nang Chuan about the white ox and the water buffalo has been so important to me, By chance, someone gave me a white ox, which has a provenance important to them too, which I feel. but it also has become a talismanic object for me.

[58:08]

Oh dear, I have to reach into my pocket. Isn't that beautiful? Okay, so I think She needs to be behind the Vajra. Because she's, you know, like the altar. So now you can all lazily watch right on. I said it wouldn't take 20 minutes. It only took 10. Thank you very much. Thank you again for translating in the team. Yes, and the team.

[59:09]

Thank you, Giorgio, for finding the time to come and join us.

[59:15]

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