In the future we can try to sit more here. Of course I cannot look around. I don't need every detail of the discussion reported to me. But I'd like the general feeling of what you spoke about. And if there's some particular point that stands out, please tell me in some detail. Thank you. As you probably know, it's considered It's thought that if you can't express your understanding, you don't understand.

[01:25]

I think a lot of us have a feeling that, well, we have some inner understanding, expressionism, something superficial, but it's not the case in Zen. Just receiving, experiencing, and being able to express that experience. That's partly a measure of understanding. But the ability to express one's understanding then works back in one to deepen one's understanding. So that's why one of the reasons this practice of talking in small groups is so important to me. And also that you do it in German.

[02:40]

And hear other people's ideas about these things. So, somebody tell me something, please. The first person to speak gets a star on their forehead. Even if no one else sees it, I know it's there. Oh, good. It was a lively and intense discussion about the term compassion.

[03:47]

It was a lively and intense discussion about the term compassion. There was something like a satisfaction among us when we defined compassion. as a term which encompasses suffering with... Encompasses. Encompasses.

[04:48]

Suffering. Includes suffering with, joy with, and other feelings which you can have with others, share with others. We also defined it as a human capacity which always was there. And we said, maybe at some point it was covered or lost a little bit, and now we have to recover it. And we also found that first we have to find compassion for ourselves, to overcome the separation to nature and to other people, and to overcome the separation to nature and to other people.

[06:13]

and to be able to experience connectedness. To the second question, the realization of compassion, we found that it's necessary to have the intention to develop compassion. We need some time to do that. And the danger of compassion we found is in a lie to oneself? To put a value on compassion or

[07:19]

to see it as the most valuable thing you can reach, and then you can make a moral out of it, and then you can easily lie to yourself about compassion, about your being able to be compassionate. We found you can experience compassion in the body, and the question which comes out of that is, is compassion an emotion, a feeling? Yeah, okay, someone else. What does that mean?

[08:39]

Was that compassion for yourself? So what else? We first tried to understand the term and said that compassion is not a feeling. We also tried first to understand the term and we found that compassion is not a feeling. It's not a feeling. Not an emotion. Not an emotion. But it arises where encounters are possible without any categories. Where I meet somebody and I don't put any values on it, whether this gives rise to positive or negative feelings.

[09:51]

And in this encounter then some sort of primordial connection is established or can arise. This was our definition. The other question was realization. And we all had some experiences of it, like experience points. either with people or also with nature and other experiences. And these experiences make the ground for connectedness. But there was another question which moved us very much.

[11:33]

We found that we are always talking about we are practicing. How and why do we enter the path of practice? Dofni said that you enter practice because of suffering. The question came, how can we judge whether we are practicing and others don't practice?

[12:44]

That was our most important question. What was the point of the distinction between of knowing whether, knowing we practice, and wondering whether other people are actually practicing or already practicing. Why is there such a difference? We have generally assumed that we are walking a spiritual path. Assumption. We talked on the condition that we all are on a spiritual path. But can't this only be a view? You mean you don't want to go around saying, I'm practicing, Sam?

[13:49]

What does it mean to be in contact with reality? Because we decide as some people do and some people don't. And those who are on the spiritual way, they try to decide illusions from reality and so on. And how can we say that some have the illusions, but they say they don't suffer, nevertheless, and have a good life. And those who are on the way, they suffer, they have no good life. And on the one hand... Each person can decide it for itself. But there must be... We want an answer from you. I think this was our... Yeah, okay.

[14:59]

Do you need to say that in German? It was already said in German. I think it would be good if she said something. Okay. who do not take a spiritual path, and it is often said that one comes to it through suffering, but one experiences that some people have a good life, who do not take a spiritual path, who say, I have a good life and I lack nothing, On the other hand, it's the other way around, and then it also mixes.

[16:00]

So there are all kinds of variations, and we just wanted to know, so this question has remained unanswered, what does practice actually mean in this context? Yes, maybe like that. Well, let me say a couple of things in relation to what you said too. Although the word compassion means to suffer with in English, in Buddhism it also is the ability to to undergo with, to suffer with.

[17:10]

Sorry? To suffer also means to undergo, to undergo a situation. To undergo... I went... To go through with something with someone. There are several aspects to this. One is to really be willing to be in the other person's shoes. To be willing to be crazy. Or willing to have cancer. And the more you'd be willing and recognize that you as a human being may go through this, It's really more possible to go through something with another person.

[18:21]

It really means you're not trying to separate yourself from others. You really say, well, this could be me. Another aspect is not just to suffer with, but to joy with, to be able to have the capacity for joy. The person who's suffering wants to experience joy. So if you're just suffering with them, it's kind of depressing. So even in the midst of a person suffering, there should be in yourself the capacity not only to go through it with them, but also to experience joy in that.

[19:29]

And you can practice that in small things, just taking joy in other people's successes. Often we find ourselves a little mean about other people's successes. And that means that your capacity for compassion is somewhat limited. So empathetic joy is one of the traits of practice and the bodhisattva. So the capacity to accept suffering and to experience joy are very closely related in this practice of compassion.

[20:34]

And I think what you said was that the more you're free of categories or limitations or something, there's more compassion present. Isn't that what you said, something like that? Yeah. Then the question I would ask, isn't that really teaching of emptiness? Because the emptiness is the absence of differentiation. So in this sense, then we're right in the heart of the Heart Sutra. Which is the teaching of emptiness.

[21:47]

As compassion. And the other thing you wanted me to respond to, why some people are very happy and successful with convenient delusions. It's true. Delusions are very convenient sometimes. I think, yeah. And some delusions, some teachings are quite delusive, but they are conducive to happiness. But the teaching here is don't be jealous of others' delusions. You know, maybe those of us who practice we have some sort of disability.

[23:10]

Then that we somehow can't tolerate delusions. We don't function well with delusions. So then we're stuck with suffering. And we're stuck with trying to... It makes life much more challenging. But the problems with delusions is they work in some situations and not in all situations. If there's suddenly disease or war or something, delusions collapse real fast. So Buddhism is a teaching that hopefully will give you stability in any reality. But even if you are actively practicing Buddhism and trying to to develop an accurately assuming consciousness.

[24:44]

consciousness which is based on accurate assumptions about how we exist. Still, we're always in a pulse of the world of delusion and the world of the absolute. Yeah, that pulse is momentary And in yourself. And that pulse is also entering the world of our ordinary life and other people. We could say that the bodhisattva is the one who enters freely the delusions of others. But not deluded by them. Because the way we're friendly with others is to be deluded with them. Sometimes called a party. What else here now? I have a question.

[26:17]

We found that we feel compassion in the body and that we have feelings, and you said it's free from feelings. No, it's not an emotion, but it's a feeling. It is not an emotion, but it is a feeling. Yes, this is an important point. Maybe this is when I can put the five skandhas on the flip chart. Maybe we should... This second one was hard too.

[28:48]

translate and maybe mental associations or impulses or will. We could say that the five skandhas are the perhaps the key to the practice of all of Buddhism. And basically the Heart Sutra is overall the teaching of the emptiness of the five skandhas. And the Heart Sutra, as a historical document, represents the cusp, perhaps, of the shift from early Buddhism, Theravadan Buddhism, to Mahayana Buddhism.

[30:06]

And by the way, the reason I mentioned Amitabha this morning and the sense of these all-pervading cosmic Buddhas with their manifestations as compassion and wisdom as bodhisattvas. The widest practice in all of Asia, the widest Buddhist practice, the widest Buddhist practice in all of Asia, is calling the name of Amitabha. A bit like if you simply repeated the name of Jesus.

[31:08]

Now, what would be the difference between repeating the name of Jesus and repeating the name of Amitabha? In Japan, it's Amida. In Japan it is Amida. And you hear from door windows and you see people walking along and they say, Namo Amida Butsu, [...] etc. And you hear it from the doors, but people go by and recite Namo Amida Butsu. So it's very definitely the feeling that if one or more are joined in my name, I appear. It's a very pronounced feeling. When two or more come together, I am here. So now Zen is more interested in Avalokiteshvara as a kind of and the heart sutra as a way of entering through wisdom and understanding just to repeat the name of Amitabha the source Buddha of Avalokiteshvara depends more or is more of a practice of faith.

[32:25]

But it's not Probably quite the same as though it could be. It's conceptually not the same probably as repeating the name of Jesus. Because Amitabha is not considered to be separate from us or a historical person. And Amitabha doesn't exist in general. Amitabha exists through your activity and arises from us. So it's considered to be a capacity of ourselves Which we have to nudge into existence.

[33:42]

And nudge into existence knowing each moment is a separate world or a separate particularity. Separate moment, separate particularity. So I'm not really trying to compare in any way Christianity or Buddhism. I'm just trying to express something about Buddhism. That's all I know. I don't know anything else very well. But Buddhism and that I don't know very well either, but a little more than other things. Okay. Okay.

[34:42]

So I'm coming back to feeling and emotions. And I've spoken about this quite often. But again, in English, feelings and emotions are used almost as synonyms. There's a little different implication. You feel angry and you have an angry emotion. Yeah, but you say, how did you feel today? People say, I was angry. What feelings do you have? Anger, love, etc.? Again, going back to compassion, this idea of compassion is much like like the idea of love.

[35:57]

Love is something that's generated between two or more people. It doesn't automatically always exist. So compassion is the same way. It's something that we come into, that emerges. But let's say a technical definition of feeling in Buddhism Feeling accompanies all mental and physical activity. Physical activity.

[37:21]

Feeling is the experience of being alive. So feeling is the second skanda. And emotions really belong in perceptions. Emotions have beginnings and ends. Emotionen haben Anfang und Ende. Feeling is always present. And essentially feeling is non-graspable. We could say it appears as anger, but feeling itself is more subtle than anger or love or something like that. Again, I come back to at this moment there's a particular feeling in this room. If you try to identify it and give it a name, you cannot do that. You might say it's good or bad. But you can't say it's anger or... Maybe it's compassion, maybe it's connectedness, but we really can't name it.

[38:28]

And when you try to name it, it's not there. So essentially feeling is non-graspable. And so feeling at that level is also closely related to what Buddhism means by compassion. Now, I don't know if I'm being very clear here, but we have to kind of stumble our way into these definitions. Okay, what else? Yes. In our discussion we came very fast to the point of realization of compassion.

[39:54]

And we came to the point that it can be very difficult if you are very close to a person. The conflicts and the background you have with the person make it difficult to express or act compassionate. This was one of our main points. The second point was that compassion also can cause fear. Because you don't know whether to... I can try myself.

[41:22]

So it was the feeling that we don't really know what we are buying when we are compassionate because there's lots of things that we might encounter and we want to be open and compassionate. whether it's going to hit us and may hurt. Yeah, true. You might lose your job, you know. Or not want to do your job, say. Because you realize how it's affecting the world or the people or something like that. Yes. Anything else? The detail to the realization of compassion that the hope is that we can well on the one hand we said step back in order to be able to be compassionate even with people where we have lots of relations that would disturb ability to be compassionate but that we found not to be

[42:59]

maybe the best choice, but rather to be able to show, to realize the emotions that we have that maybe hinder us in being compassionate, and still be quiet enough and calm enough to react, not within this emotion, but still be able to feel the compassion through our emotion that actually hinders us somehow. German, please. Yes. It's like this speech, that in such a situation where one is actually prevented by the relationship that one has to experience the interaction with another person, that one could step back on the one hand And that's one of the reasons the teaching of the five skandhas was produced. To answer that question, to cope with that common situation.

[44:30]

It's interesting that it's so easy to be compassionate to babies and dogs. And so difficult to be compassionate to adults, especially if they happen to be our parents. Sometimes anyway. Or people close to us. So what is it? At what point? And one of the practices is to imagine the person you don't feel compassionate for, your enemy, say. To actually actively practice imagining them as a baby. And you probably feel compassionate for that person.

[45:59]

You might say, I can see that already. But generally you can... As you imagine them older, at some point you begin to lose your connection with them. So what happens? If I were to diagram this stuff on the five skandhas, So somewhere in the middle of perceptions, feelings, this is where it's much easier to experience compassion.

[47:04]

So there are practices to understand the difference between this. And I'll try to speak about it, perhaps. Okay, what else? What else? After our discussion, the term compassion was unclear. Unclear? Less clear. Less clear, yeah. I wrote down the question whether our understanding of the term is conditioned by psychology and Christianity.

[48:13]

And for that reason, is different from the Asian understanding. Could be. That's good to say. I think after the past 20 minutes, this became clearer. One experience I think we all know is a switch where first you are in your own garden somehow and then after the switch you are able to look out of the garden. And things which were problematic, they become simpler because you are able to see them in a bigger context.

[49:24]

And we said this switch, which is often a sudden thing, it has to do with compassion. And from this switch follows often that we have energy and we are able to act. For example, also in political sphere. Okay, yeah, I understand. Okay, so what else? By the way, what time am I supposed to stop? Was it six o'clock? Six o'clock. Six o'clock, okay. So we have 15 minutes or so. Anybody else? Someone else? Yes. The discussion in our groups that some kind of definition aspect of compassion as to create a room or to give a room where the other one can flourish.

[51:04]

Mm-hmm. It is louder. where the other one can flourish. And we continue to talk about aspects of that room or open awareness. There were aspects like to be able to step into the shoes of the other person, to have joy when they grow, and the notion that you share the same moment, so you are connected and the moment is open for development. Then we talked about conditions to create such a moment and somewhat boiled down to give up concepts or images and identify with them, but first to be able to suffer.

[52:06]

and to accept suffering and not immediately to start to do something about it or to want to wipe it away. Just to let it happen and in that context also compassion for oneself and Yeah, and the ability to question one's thoughts, to question one's own presuppositions and images, especially in the situations of conflict. Yeah, that we find that some people mention that. For them, some true compassion came of itself. They just felt the situation of the other person very intensively, or direct, or unmediated.

[53:18]

on the part. We need some, people felt that we need some effort or, yeah, some cons. antidotes and people often find them caught up in a situation, then they have to step back by remembering antidote and say, stop, stop, stop, I'm not going to react immediately here. Okay. Deutsch, bitte. Our discussion started with a definition of compassion, or an aspect of compassion, namely creating the space in which we can embrace others. We then continued to talk about aspects of this space or this kind of open divinity.

[54:24]

It was joy at the growth of others, To be able to move into the other and to feel at the same moment, so that the moment is actually hopeful, a development where there is not something given. as a prerequisite for developing such a space, because, above all, the concepts exist. One basic concept, for example, is that we always have to do well, or that we always have to look at the fact that we are doing well. The ability to allow suffering, to allow crying and to allow standing, and not to immediately try to eliminate it by any measure. Because non-identification with concepts allows you to see your own position as changeable and to be able to feel better about the other and to interpret yourself and your own concepts.

[55:38]

Okay. Someone else? That's it. Almost everyone? Yes, there are still some left. Yes. Well, with us it actually started out of an irritation. It started in our group with an irritation. I started telling about the confusion, sorry. Confusion. I told that I read a book by Suzuki. Which Suzuki? Send My Beginner's Mind. And I read it sometimes. And maybe I didn't read it exactly, exactly enough.

[56:56]

And after one and a half years of practicing something, I started reading it again. In German? Yes. And then I read that... And suddenly I read, for the first time, we start practicing out of compassion. But when I practiced, I always thought I'm just learning to be compassionate. I'm not able to be compassionate now. I will learn it. And I didn't understand how he means that.

[58:32]

And today when we spoke about it, the thought came up that although this was so in my practice, compassion is always there. It's already there. The second thing that we talked about was how difficult it is to be compassionate because we feel separated from others. And we found out at that moment where the separation doesn't exist anymore, connectedness comes up and this is the basis for compassion.

[59:53]

Okay? That sounds good. I wish I could participate in these discussions. Thank you for helping me by telling me about them. So, something else? Yeah. Something that comes up for me is that when you talk about compassion, it always feels like helping others. And my experience is that when I have to help others, I can't help anymore. And my experience is that in the past I always had a kind of, I must help others or compassion is in relation to others.

[61:24]

So there was always a kind of or there is a kind of hard feeling, I must help others, or I must help the world or nature. And I realize that I have this must, I cannot do anything. So, how can I practice with that? Did all the groups say something? I can't say anything because everything was said, but we also mentioned in our group. And I would like perhaps to quote a sentence Christine said, which was very important, that compassion is the awakening presence of others. That's good. Deutsch, bitte. I'm personally surprised that so many people have the same experience

[62:31]

analyzing what her passion is about, and that helps me personally to feel connected with others. And I like to, I would like to mention one more sentence from Christine, who appeared to me personally very beautiful, who was with the feeling that awakening is the presence of the other, In this broad sense, simply to search. What surrounds us. And to be brought to the realization that we are here perhaps with a feeling, or to achieve these possibilities at all. In the sense of an experience too. So what are we talking about here?

[64:10]

Compassion, whatever we mean by it, everybody has compassion. You have to be pretty. I mean, I don't think you can live without some degree of compassion. Society is based on compassion. People can only live together when they see the value of living together, and that's compassion. Now what's the difference between what we're doing and just any other? If everything is, we can, if there's always compassion, what are we doing? Well, we're bringing the practice of meditation and the understanding of Buddhism into our experiences.

[65:19]

And what does that emphasize? I think it can be stated in a word, two words, already connected. And I've often suggested that as a practice where you repeat to yourself already connected. Because most of us have a basic assumption of already separated. Buddhism suggests come into a feeling of already connected as the first thing you feel, the initial moment of consciousness. And Buddhism is based on a concept of reality as dharmic moments.

[66:30]

Acupunctural moments. So in each dharmic moment, each that arises, you as it occurs to you or as your intention allows it, you bring into your consciousness along with the arising of the moment The feeling of already connected. Now, you'll find if you really come into that as a habit and fully, It will change how you relate to people.

[67:42]

You don't have to make so much effort to establish connection because you're already connected. So you can look at people with a feeling of intimacy and familiarity right at the very beginning. Strangers and people you know alike. And this opens up in you that which is in fact already connected. So you're lit up by sentience. So now when you change your view from already separated to already connected, Now the understanding that you can change your views is Buddhist practice.

[68:53]

Buddhist practice is not about Buddhas or something, really. It's about the understanding that you can change your views. And you can change your views so they're closer to how we actually exist. And so that they're therapeutic or medicinal. And so that they're therapeutic or medicinal. And so that they're realisational or lead to enlightenment. So, okay, everything's compassion. All our activity is essentially a form of compassion. At least in its roots. As I say, when you get angry, why are you angry? You're angry because you care. If you didn't care, you wouldn't get angry.

[70:01]

So the root of anger is caring. How can you bring any emotion, all separating emotions, are rooted in caring? So how can you bring yourself back into this sense of the moment that consciousness itself is caring. To be that any interest is caring. But then it gets kind of mixed up. What mixes it up? Let's understand what mixes it up. And compassion also is the face of wisdom. The expression of wisdom. And compassion is the essential ingredient in enlightenment.

[71:27]

So we're looking at compassion here in ways in which it can be enlightening. The basis and root of enlightenment. the way in which it can also express our caring and connectedness in a way that's beneficial. And again, to discover compassion as an expression of how we actually exist. Okay, now, there's nothing wrong with feeling you must help others, help nature, etc. But maybe the must is a problem. But then that's something you have to kind of practice is to understand why must is a problem.

[72:32]

I'm very glad you feel that way. But don't put too many musts on me. Part of, as Dieter expressed it, much of compassion in this context of threefold meditative practice Or three-fold teaching of reality, shall we say, medicine and enlightenment. Looking at compassion as a three-fold teaching. of reality, therapy or medicine and enlightenment.

[73:48]

No, I mention these three only because there are many aspects of reality. Buddhism is concerned with those aspects of reality which are also therapeutic and enlightening. As a teaching, it means you can also be interested in the chemical composition of the stones on Mars. But it probably wouldn't become part of Buddhist teaching. Again, as Dieter pointed out, then part of compassion in this way of looking at things is actually to leave Everything alone.

[74:49]

To not do things for people so much as leave them alone. Okay, but you leave them alone while you're present with them. There's a difference when a kid learns to ride a tricycle on his or her own. With the mother and father watching or by themselves? So what is the presence of the mother and father watching but leaving the kid to fall over? That's some... non-graspable feeling connectedness. And now we're back into Avalokiteshvara, the presence being something like feeling someone who's behind you, who you can't see but feel.

[76:01]

Opening ourselves to the feeling of a bodhisattvic presence being we're generating right now. And what's interesting to read the sutras, there's all kinds of bodhisattvas. There's the bodhisattva of a shiny sunny day after rain. Really? There's thousands of names of bodhisattvas. That means we can each have our own. A bodhisattva of a shiny sunny day in a room without walls. Just now generated. And yet playing among us. So, okay, now we're going to stop pretty soon.

[77:07]

Woo! Fifteen minutes ago we stopped, actually. And we'll have sasin this evening. And I'd ask you to, in your practice and in your activity between now and tomorrow morning. Feel this sense of already connected. And also maybe sense what do you mean by consciousness, yourself, in yourself. And can you observe your mind at the level that makes connections, associations? Can you distinguish between consciousness and mental formations? And can you notice your perceptions when something first occurs to you?

[78:18]

This is a teaching, but it's actually you have to find it in your own experience. Make your own personal experience. Inventory, cataloging of these things. And what are feelings and what is form, the stuff of the world? So this kind of observation of yourself as thinking and consciousness emerge... Sorry? this feeling and observation of yourself as thinking and consciousness emerge is the initial practice of being a human being but also of the five skandhas.

[79:22]

Let's sit for about one minute. BELL RINGS So we're just looking at some very basic stuff here.

[81:38]

What is it to feel connected or separated? What is it or what could it be when connectedness is a continual free-flowing process? These teachings aren't different from you. These teachings are possible to realize. And they're already not separate from you. So how was your discussion?

[84:35]

Entirely empty. So someone tell me something. Yeah. several questions came up for example what does four mean but then the fives can last and what is emptiness what is I knew somehow this question would come back to me. Nothing, nothingness. What is emptiness and what is nothing? Whiteness. Then are there various emptinesses? A very smart question. Then we tried to see how to define perception.

[85:43]

For example, perception leads through the five skandhas to concept. or to a structure or fall is the structure of perception through the senses And we spoke about the differences between the psychological term of feeling empty, like something... Like depressed. Yeah, right. And the difference... So we're deprimed. Yeah. And the difference to the emptiness we are discussing here within the Heart Sutra. Thank you. Maybe they're the same we call one bliss.

[86:47]

And Ralph made the example of differentiating between or saying nothing, like no thing, meaning no separate thing. Now we spoke about how perception changed in the course of practicing Buddhism. For example, if somebody goes out to pick up the mail and he is completely in despair, But when he sees the garden and flowers or he can see the stars, so that things are not so close anymore, but they opened up and thought there is despair, you can see these other things as well. Can you do that quickly in Deutsch? So, there are different questions, what is form within the fungskandas, what is emptiness, what is nothingness, are there different types of objects of emptiness?

[88:00]

Then we talked about the difference between this psychological concept of emptiness and the concept of emptiness in the Heart Sutra and also Okay. Next. This is exciting. Yeah. In our group first we shared the experiences we all had with emptiness and form. I wish I could have been there. There were personal experiences coming from Buddhism, coming from therapy and coming from body work.

[89:12]

I can only bring up now what I personally found is the essence of our talking. That we, in which we have meant to have form and clarity, once or more times, We, in thinking that we experienced form and emptiness once or several times, we ask ourselves in what terms can we share these experiences and describe them? And how can we share it? In what terms can we use? And on the one hand we are limited in our physical capabilities,

[90:33]

Like in the text it says, no eyes, no ears, no nose. There's not only these substantial faculties. How can we describe these experiences with words as they are really nameless? And one example was always being in the beginner's mind. This is the process of dying. This is the process of dying. When there the simultaneity of form and emptiness is, you can experience it in that.

[92:04]

If you accompany somebody who is dying, you also can have a taste or a spark of this experience. And to the topic of form, there were some thoughts too. Why is in Zen Buddhism there is so much emphasis on form? You mean rituals? Rituale. Yes, I think so. Okay.

[93:18]

Thank you. Yes. In our group we first asked, what is form and is there an objective form? We asked ourselves, what is form? And it came up, is there an objective way of form? Is form on the same level as the other four skandhas or is it a different level? And then there came some idea that these five standards are connected with a rising ladder of concepts, namely form, feeling, perception, impulse and consciousness, only that we perceive them simultaneously in one package.

[94:23]

And that makes it so difficult that we actually have to make a separation there. So the idea was that all these five sandhas are connected to each other and when we perceive it, it's in one block and we can't divide it in these different steps. Then we asked, okay, who had some experiences in losing in... see a form disappearing into emptiness, and one was okay by drugs, for example, when you see something as a tree, and you see all of a sudden the form of the tree is dissolving into pure energy, or into... What drug? Or another one more on the ground, a creative act, where we go the other way around, where somebody's bringing out of him or herself an idea and puts it into a form, creates a picture or... Another thing would be...

[95:41]

In the film Terminator, there was something similar, where the human form, where Arnold Schwarzenegger as a man is there and suddenly transforms into such a metallic being, into a robot.

[95:58]

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