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Beyond Thinking: Zen and Space
Seminar_Dogen_Statements_with Norman Fisher
The talk explores the concepts of space, home, and cultural metaphors, comparing the existential reflections associated with Heidegger's hut to Zen Buddhist teachings, particularly those of Dogen. It investigates linguistic and philosophical elements such as "a single hair pierces myriad holes," illustrating non-conceptual thinking or parataxis and emphasizing the importance of physical and mental awareness through Zen practice. This discussion integrates Dogen's explorations of space and self-awareness into Zen practice, urging a focus on mindfulness beyond conventional cognitive boundaries.
- "Mountains and Rivers Sutra" by Dogen: This text illustrates Dogen's exploration of physical and mental landscapes, underscoring the relationship between place and spiritual practice.
- "To Think Non-Thinking" by Dogen: Engages with the Zen practice of embodying mindfulness and awareness beyond thought, central to this discussion on transcending ordinary cognition.
- Concept of Apophatic Theology: Used in the talk to draw parallels with Zen, where understanding is built through negation as much as affirmation.
- "Single Hair Piercing Myriad Holes" by Dogen: Serves as a metaphor for transcending traditional conceptual thinking, illustrating the Zen notion of engaging with paradoxes.
- Gregory Bateson's Concept of Metalogue: Provides a framework for understanding Zen teachings as interactions or interruptions of conventional thought patterns.
This presentation implores practitioners to realize the integration of thought and physical presence, stepping into a form of awareness that invites mystery and defies conventional interpretations.
AI Suggested Title: "Beyond Thinking: Zen and Space"
And I saw the image embedded in what you were saying of home. And the implication to host and guest. And what you appreciate you let into your life, like letting a guest into your house. And though I hate the pun, excuse me, It really is like in the financial world, your life appreciates. Is that the same in German, appreciate, in financial terminology? I don't know.
[01:03]
Let's ask the financial guys. Where are they? I don't know. When your stock appreciates, is it gains in value? Do you use the same word as I appreciate? It's not the same. It's not the same. Yeah, puns are hard to translate. Yeah, puns are hard to translate. But speaking about near puns at least. Yesterday Miriam and I and Adin and my six-year-old daughter Sophia climbed, well it wasn't straight up, but it was up this mountain to Heidi's hut.
[02:07]
Luckily, we got a ride in the last 20 minutes of a man who impersonates the grandfather. It's much easier to get up to Heidegger's hut. I've been there once or twice. I was there with my son-in-law, who was such an admirer of Heidegger, he couldn't get up close to the hut. I was there with my son-in-law and he appreciates Heidegger so much that he could hardly get any closer to the hut. But that really touched me, this interesting connection between Heidi and Heidegger. Because, I mean, Heidegger himself had a house in Freiburg, too.
[03:19]
But he felt he could write, he felt better when he was in the hut, which is a pretty little house. And for Haiti, I mean, you know, there's busloads of people arriving, mostly full of Japanese, but there's one busload of Dutch people. Yeah, and here's this story, which is all over the world. The most famous non-Skrull. person of Switzerland. But the whole story is animated by the contrast between living in the mountains and living in Frankfurt. And that somehow living in the mountains is healing as we saw when Clara came to walk.
[04:33]
I would think that Zen, Buddhism as a whole asks, what is it about Heidegger's hut and Heidegger's hut? is where we want to live, Is it really a hut or is it something else we can find? It's our own capacity. So as soon as I saw Heidi's hut, I thought, Heidegger's hut. They're about the same size. That's nice. So in whatever language you feel like speaking, does anybody want to speak?
[05:41]
I guess this. I guess this little tale is relevant. I guess this little tale is relevant. Almost exactly one year ago today, I was in the middle of a a visit to China, and I was on Mount Wutai. It was a very hectic journey, but almost the only quiet moment of my visit Das war eine sehr hektische Reise und fast der einzige ruhige Moment meiner Reise, war in diesem buddhistischen Kloster da, in einem ruhigen Moment mit zwei Lehrern und mir und der Begleitung.
[07:11]
one of the Chinese monks leant forward to me and said, this is your true home. It was a very moving moment. I think that they say that there are places, physical places on the earth where one feels this sense of home which I think that Begiroshi is implying and I think I was saying this too and I agree that the place is not so much in that place so much as it is in oneself and the place evokes it in you.
[08:30]
So the place is not irrelevant because in that place you feel what was there all along, but never felt before. I've been sort of waiting for it for the whole trip, and it wasn't happening. There it was, yeah. Dogen talks about mountains and rivers and a place. But somehow you don't feel he's talking about his mountain or a particular place in China or something like that. And we were saying that this may be on both sides an advantage and a disadvantage. As Dieter put it so delicately, Heidegger's sense of the local had unfortunate political consequences for him.
[09:44]
If you did... want to practice sitting in a chair. You try to do something like I said. And what Norman said about lifting up through the body. More important, it would be more important to sit with a lifting feeling through the spine is not exactly straight, but what happens when you lift up through your spine.
[10:46]
I would think it's more important to sit that way for a while than for sitting necessarily a long period of time and not being able to keep straight. Because it's not... The flight hours do count. But the vitality with which you sit for even a short period of time is more important than how long you sit. I'm not trying to convince anyone to sit, but if you're here, you might as well know something about it. A story I often tell, too much for most of you, but Suki Roshi, my teacher, was asked, what do you notice about being in America?
[12:23]
It was first year, first in America. And he said, let you do things with one hand. And so I heard him say that, so I started watching, and yes, Americans do things with one hand. Somebody asks you for the salt, you just hand it to him. Seems convenient. So I watched him. What situation could I have the salt? He'd pick it up and hand it to me like this. So first of all, he's offering himself, not just the salt.
[13:25]
But the whole idea of tea bowls having no hands, I know it's a third world country, but you know. But it's because you do things with two hands. And noticing more carefully, he didn't just hand it, He brought it into the field of his body and his spine. And then he turned his body, not just the hand, to the person he was handing it to. So I noticed that... So I began to notice... Japanese people in Japanese restaurants, if they were first or second generation even, third generation had lost it, still tended to hold teacups like this, like this.
[14:50]
And what's here? What is here? A chakra. A little shelf. Hmm? And then after drinking, they'd hold it here, another little shelf. And again, all related to the spine. This is simply using physical objects to bring attention to the spine. And that's characteristic of a yogic culture. And we can speak about, you know, even Biologically you can, but we can speak about yogically of the spine as a kind of mind.
[16:08]
Especially when your aliveness, your vitality is... in your spine. So again, by just offering the salt or the bell, you're offering in a way the spine-mind is speaking to the other person's spine mind, whether they know it or not. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, I'm just trying to... Because what Dogen is... and a profound exemplar of yogic culture.
[17:14]
Now, the first phrase I want to bring up is... Dogen said in the presence of Agile. Dogen hat gesagt in der Präsenz von, in der Gegenwart von Agile. A single hair pierces myriad holes. Ein einzelnes Haar durchdringt Milliarden von Löchern. Now, what the heck does that mean? Was bedeutet das nun? A single hair pierces myriad holes. Now, this is meant to not be understandable. just as to think non-thinking is meant to be not understandable.
[18:25]
Now, most scholars, all that I know of anyway, ponder about who know Japanese and Chinese, ponder about what does it mean. The phrase that Norman brought up, to think non-thinking. But as far as I know, no scholar stops and says... If it doesn't make sense even in Japanese, maybe it's not supposed to make sense. The term, the word that Norman and I used this morning, paratactic or parataxis.
[19:32]
And the second word I'll give you, apophysis or apophate. Apophysis. Apophatic. Apophatic, yes. And which means something like to say something and take away the saying of it. It's like in theology is describing God by what God is not. Etymologisch ist, das heißt, Gott beschreiben dadurch, dass man beschreibt, was Gott nicht ist. But irony is a form of apophysis. Die Ironie, das ist eine Form, diese apophatische Form. It's very characteristic of Zen to say something and take away the saying of it.
[20:35]
Und das ist sehr typisch für Zen, etwas zu sagen und das Sagen, aber die Aussage wieder wegzunehmen. So these two terms, apophasis and parataxis, are useful because they help us notice things in the way they exist, actually. Yeah, and of course in the way, in the... style and structure of Zen practice, Zen teaching and practice. Okay. So I'm trying to, in a way, introduce us to yoga culture, Buddhist, and Dogen.
[21:44]
in order to work with Dogen's phrases. To make use of Dogen's phrases, in order to make use of Dogen's phrases. So let's look at words a minute. Words gather energy. And words gather associations. and part of the energy of a word is the associations it gathers and the way consciousness functions as a tapestry of concepts which if you imagine it maybe as a tapestry or maybe like a puzzle where you put in the pieces.
[22:59]
Each piece of the puzzle has nested in it associations. So now dreaming mind is not a web of associations. well, is not a web of concepts the way consciousness is. So concepts float around in dreaming mind in a very different way and consciousness, they're locked in. So we can act in the world, step out into the world. And we need to step out into a predictable world. So the job of concepts and the use of most words is to make the world predictable.
[24:02]
But this tapestry of concepts also hides the world from us. In Zen practice, we want to pierce these concepts. We want to interrupt the predictability of the world. So, okay, so let's just take A simple example I usually make. If you ask, what is breathing? You can feel that question, what is breathing? If you ask, who is breathing? Yeah, it feels different.
[25:24]
Now, I think this is extremely interesting that the difference between what and who Yes, W and a few letters after it makes such a difference in feeling. So what directs energy toward feeling? Breathing. Toward how we notice breathing. And who directs energy toward how we notice breathing? But the associations accumulated in what direct it differently than the associations accumulated in who.
[26:28]
Okay, so a phrase like To continue with what Norman brought up, a phrase like to think non-thinking is a metallogue, which is a term that Gregory Bateson, I think, at least made known to me. Like, as I said to somebody at lunch, hello is a metalogue because it is what it is. It's not about hello, it is hello. So a phrase like to think non-thinking is what it is. It's And what it is is an interruption of thinking.
[27:46]
Now, it's natural to ask... All of us do, as Suzanne brought up. What is this thinking, non-thinking? And as Norman said, it's also to get a feeling for it. And then bring that feeling into your way of being. And we can say one yogic truism is all mental phenomena have a physical component. Is that all mental phenomena and all sentient or human sentient physical phenomena
[29:06]
have a mental component. This means that every state of mind has a physical component. And you can learn through mindfulness practice and Zazen practice, begin to learn to notice the physical component of states of mind. So, as Norman says, you can get a feeling for this state non-discursive mind of not non-thinking, of non-thinking. Okay. Now, That's a way of looking at it physically.
[30:22]
Now I'm taking as part of the topic of this, or sub-topic of this seminar, phrases itself. Themselves. So if we have a phrase like think non-thinking, and even People who know Japanese, well, don't know quite what it means. Then not knowing quite what it means is what it means. Does that make sense? Okay. So then you bring into your thinking... but you don't know quite what it means.
[31:26]
So it becomes a presence While I'm thinking, what is non-thinking? Das bekommt so eine Gegenwart, wenn ich denke, was bedeutet nicht denken. So, I use, for me the phrase is non-thinking. Für mich ist der Satz nicht denken. Because it includes not and non. Weil es nicht... For me, you know, I use it that way. Weil es nicht und... Nein und kein Denken, ja, beinhaltet. I have helpers. Yeah, it's good. I have helpers, too. Kein und nein. See, we just have not and non, and you have kein und nein. Kein und nein, ja. Not and non, ja.
[32:27]
Kein und nein. So if the feeling of non-thinking is in your thinking, which is Dogen's idea, mantric idea, and that becomes your habit, you inject that sort of into your thinking. your mental formations. And you begin to feel the edges of thinking. Or sometimes we say the reality limit. the edge of consciousness and where the mystery begins.
[33:32]
My example usually is when you hear a bird, You're not hearing the bird the way other birds hear the bird. What you're actually hearing is your own hearing of the bird. And so when you know you're hearing your own hearing of the bird, then you feel the reality limit. Mm-hmm. Sounds good. So you feel the mystery.
[34:36]
Du fühlst das Mysterium. Yeah. Because you're only hearing your own hearing, and that's deeply satisfying, actually, blissful. But yet you realize that's all you're hearing, and there's a world out there that the senses don't reach. Just like there's... cellular phone calls and television programs in this room that our senses don't reach to. A little single pierces myriad holes. Now, the word myriad is, in Chinese and Japanese, is 10,000. 10,000 is not a generalization. It's a semiotic... I don't know what, but it's a sign, not a generalization.
[36:03]
10,000 things is like, yeah, there could be 10,000 things in this room. So it's not a generalization, it's about actual things. Let's call it 10,000 or 10 or 50, I don't care. I'm sorry, it's behind you. This is very simple.
[37:26]
I mean, I'm not saying anything interesting particularly, but I'll try to make it interesting. This is a very basic process. We have an intention, We bring it to our attention and shake the attention. And we form our life. through what we bring attention to. And we don't have much control over what we bring our attention to. I was constantly psychotically scanning And we even create the present by a scanning process.
[38:29]
And, you know, our anxiety, our desires move our attention around. Our self-referential thinking moves our attention around. There's almost no way you can control it. You can lock yourself in a box. Or you can sit down at a desk and have to study for exams. Something like that. The way you control your attention is what the intention is. So we can understand Buddhism is very much about what are the intentions
[39:34]
that make you the kind of person you'd like to have existing on the planet? Like in the ten ox-herding pictures you eventually want to give your attention and let it do what it wants. But wisdom is to work with intentions. So to say to pause for the particular is an intention that brings your attention to the particular. Now, I'm sorry to go over this simple stuff again, but
[40:46]
The four functions of self, I have to keep bringing us back to that, are separation, connectedness, of continuity and context. Okay. Now, this is to see self not as an entity but as function. Now, what you want to do in practice is really start seeing self as a way you function.
[42:06]
And everyone on the planet has to have a functioning self. Your immune system is a kind of function of the self. It belongs to you, but doesn't belong to you. And I won't go into this in any more detail, much than that. Except that usually our culture emphasizes this. normalerweise betont unsere Kultur das Trennen. Yogic culture emphasizes this. Die yogische Kultur betont das Verbindende. How do you make that shift?
[43:08]
Wie machst du diesen Wechsel? Another phrase I can give you that I use all the time. Einen anderen Satz, den ich immer benutze, gebe ich euch. We have enough built-in cultural assumption that we're already separated. I see. Coco, I haven't seen him for a while. He showed up at the Sashin in Creston, December. April. And I didn't feel, oh, I've been separated from Coco a long time. My feeling was, we're already connected. But you can have that feeling with a stranger.
[44:13]
You look at a stranger and you feel in most ways you're connected, actually. If you're lost in a forest for a few hours and it's starting to snow... When you see someone appear in the distance, you think, already connected. That's the fact of this. But we define it as separated. So a phrase I say is, every time you meet someone, in your mind say, already connected. This is the basic... This is really no different than to pierce myriad holes. It's to use... a phrase, mantrically.
[45:28]
Okay. Now, we can ask the question again. Very familiar stuff for most of you. Die meisten von euch sind damit vertraut. We can ask the question, or we can say first, bring your attention to your breath. Wir können also sagen, bring deine Aufmerksamkeit zum Atem. Everyone can do it for five minutes or a few minutes. Jeder kann das für fünf oder für ein paar Minuten tun. Most of us cannot do it for very long. Die meisten von uns können das aber nicht sehr lange tun. So we can ask, why is something so easy to do for a few minutes so difficult to do for a Yeah, all the time.
[46:38]
Is it because our thoughts are so interesting? Well, I think if you take an inventory of your thoughts, you'll find they're not really that interesting a good part of the time. Okay. The problem is that we establish our continuity of self in our thinking. And when we lose contact with that separation that we establish through thinking continuity, Again, then you, when we lose that connection with that separation through continuity, we can feel psychologically very threatened.
[47:45]
So generally this... This intention-attention goes to our thinking. But you want to create the intention to bring attention to your breath. That's the entry to a yogic culture. As long as attention is going in all kinds of directions, that's the world you create for yourself.
[48:49]
And primarily, a world created by self-referential thinking disguised as consciousness. So what you're doing... when you have an intention to bring attention to your breath, you are beginning to interrupt the establishment of self through continuity. And eventually, if you just keep having and gently... Holding the intention, but gently holding the intention.
[49:50]
To bring attention to your breath. Eventually that happens. It's like a rubber band is tied to your thinking. And you bring attention to your breath, but it's... the... it's... The Gumi Band brings it right back to your thinking. And suddenly, that Gumi Band, at some point, takes a couple of years, maybe, Breaks and your tension just comes to your breath. And rests there. And then rests not only in your breath, rests in your body and in phenomena. And you're in a different world.
[51:08]
Psychology works different. The self is different. Everything's different. So I've given you a very simple yogic exercise. Which can change your life. At least my experience is usually for the better. And you don't use your thinking anymore to establish your identity. And all that goes with that, anxiety and so forth. You use your thinking to think about things. Yeah, figure things out. Okay. So just to start again at the same place. is a phrase like think non-thinking, which however you can hold it,
[52:26]
So it reminds you. Makes you, puts you at the edge of thinking. der stellt dich an den Rand deines Denkens. And allows another kind of thinking or noticing to appear. Und erlaubt einem anderen Art des Bemerkens und Denkens zu erscheinen. So the phrase to think non-thinking is not a phrase you think about. Also dieser Satz, das Nichtdenken, Denken, das ist kein Satz, über den du nachdenkst. It's a phrase you think. Thank you. Das ist ein Satz, den du denkst. Because it's an apophatic phrase. Weil es ein apophatischer Satz ist. It's a phrase you think that takes away thinking. So the phrase itself is the medicine.
[53:45]
Also ist der Satz selber die Medizin. Which then will show you what non-thinking is. Der dir dann zeigt, was nicht-denken ist. Mhm. No, you know, we should take a break soon. But let me just say, so I don't think I can go too much further in two-pierced myriad or 10,000 holes. But I'll say something more, a little bit about it, to introduce it more to you. Dogen said this in Ejo's presence. Dogen hat das in der Gegenwart von Ejo gesagt.
[55:01]
Yeah, maybe. Let's imagine he's talking to somebody else. He's talking to Coco. And he says, oh, yeah, but, you know, one hair pierces myriad holes. And Coco said, what the hell? But Suzanne hears it. What's that? It appears myriad holes. Somehow gets her. And something like that got hold of Ejo. He felt... It was at the edge of something he knew, but he couldn't get it. I'm sure... What's that poem of Rumi's, that little line of Rumi's?
[56:01]
I knocked on that ancient door. I knocked and knocked on that ancient door. And finally it opened. And I found I was on the other side. So it's something like that Ejo felt. I'm knocking on the door and I'm already there and he was knocking with A single hair pierces myriad holes. So he felt his life was there and he didn't quite know how to open the door. So when Dogen moved from Kyoto to... Fukui, he went with him.
[57:24]
And then one day, when he was putting his bowl out, I mean, pausing for the bowl, perhaps. He was suddenly on the other side. And he went to Dogen's room, and he just didn't say anything. He just... Bowed three times. And Dogen said, what have you understood? And he said, I don't ask about pierced, but what are the 10,000 holes? And Dogen said, pierced. And if you want to be more explanatory, you could say something like, everything appears all at once.
[58:49]
Yeah, so that's a little story, probably true story, about the use of a phrase of Dogen's. And the way words can gather energy and knock at the door of the not-yet-known. Yeah, so let's sit for one minute. Maybe it'll pierce many minutes. To have the intention to bring attention to the breath until your continuity is found in breath and body.
[61:02]
Not through your thinking. releases and frees your thinking from the prison of self-referentiality.
[61:38]
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