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Beyond Entities: Embracing Interdependent Flow
AI Suggested Keywords:
The talk explores the concept of reconceptualization regarding personal existence and interconnectedness with the world. It examines the distinction between entities and interdependent activities, using anecdotes and Zen phrases as illustrative tools. The speaker addresses how Zen practice challenges conventional understanding of objects as entities, emphasizing a viewpoint that focuses on processes and happenings. Also discussed is the difficulty in translating Buddhist concepts from Chinese and Japanese into English, and the significance of intentionality in meditation practices.
Referenced Works:
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Story of Hamada: Hamada, renowned as the national treasure potter of Japan, exemplifies the concept of valuing the process over the entity, illustrated by the repair of a broken cup with gold. This story highlights the impermanence and interconnected activity of objects, not their static nature.
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Zen Poem: "The flower is not red, nor is the willow green." Used as an example of Zen's approach to perceiving reality, suggesting the intrinsic emptiness and changing nature of phenomena, leading one to a deeper understanding of the present moment as a 'gate.'
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Koan Examples: The mention of Dao Wu and Yunyan illustrates the dynamic between 'host mind' and 'guest mind,' encouraging practitioners to perceive beyond surface-level distractions and into a deeper presence and understanding within their meditative practice.
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Buddhist Concepts: Terms like "whatness" and "thusness" refer to the shift in perception from an entity-based understanding to a shared awareness, aligning with Buddhist teachings on the interconnected nature of existence.
These references emphasize Zen's focus on the experiential process of perception, where practice is characterized by seeing through the habitual conceptualizations of the world.
AI Suggested Title: Beyond Entities: Embracing Interdependent Flow
Let's, I'd like to continue this process of reconceptualization. Finding out, what kind of inhabitant of the world we are. And in what way how we inhabit the world may change the habitat. Again, I'm still staying with this sense of what kind of world In what kind of world is each moment a gate? Yeah, question we have to ask if we have this topic. But first, is there something anybody would like to bring up? I have difficulties to understand the connection between entity and causality.
[01:27]
Oh, okay. When you think in terms of entity, you're not thinking in terms of causality. That's all. Well, of course, if we have... If you think in terms of entities, you still think in terms of causes, in a usual sense. If I think of this bell as an entity... Still, I can think somebody had to make it or I had to buy it. Those are causes. But if I think of this in terms of that it's not an entity, then I can only think of it as interdependent activity for interdependent forces.
[02:53]
Does that make sense? I mean, when it struck me most deeply as... an anecdote I've told more times than my oldest daughter likes me to tell it. When she was four or five, in other words, 39, 38 years ago. I think it's a great story for me, but she says, do you still remember that? But I had a very good Hamada cup. I liked it a lot.
[04:02]
Marie Louise had one and I had, excuse me, my first wife, Virginia, had one and I had one. And Hamada was the national treasure potter of Japan. And Hamada, das war ein ganz berühmter japanischer Töpfer. Und solche Handwerke werden National Treasure genannt. And he'd been to America once. He was in America for a brief time. Three months or so. And he taught a class on pottery in San Jose or someplace like that. And although he didn't like American clay much in Japan you're really a serious potter if you have your own source of clay. You live next to the source of clay.
[05:03]
But despite the commercial potting clay, he made some cups in America. And someone gave us two of them. And mine, I always used. It was on my desk. You can imagine what happened. Hi, Papa Boom Crash. Good translation. Yeah, you... And what struck me is I was not disturbed at all.
[06:04]
Through my practice, the cup had so completely become an activity and not an entity, that When it fell, it was suddenly just the activity of cleaning it up. And Sally was quite upset. So the activity was also calming her down. and saying it's okay Sally I was just enlightened well if not quite enlightened at least I saw that practice was working so I cleaned it up and my feeling was oh now potters can make more
[07:09]
And this can be repaired. I actually brought it to Japan a year or so and had it repaired by an old man who was a very old man who still did this repairing work with gold. And I brought her to Japan and had her repaired there by a very old man, who still uses this old technique that he repaired porcelain with gold. Yes, exactly. planning to leave it to Sally so she can be one of those who continue the cup. But when you really stop thinking in terms of entities, You actually start inhabiting the world in a different way. Yeah, and Buddha nature then is not an entity, it's an activity.
[08:20]
Okay, someone else? Yes. I still remember your shopping in the supermarket. Yeah, go ahead. Last Saturday I went shopping with my... See, I know the people I practice with. With my husband. Yeah. The Bodhisattva in the supermarket.
[09:21]
And there was in this section which, in the supermarket where you can buy bread. Mm-hmm. and I ordered some bread. And the woman who wrapped the bread, I got the impression that there is much doubt present in this, but not only in this woman who is wrapping the bread, but also in myself. And I looked around and I realized I could see this doubt in almost everybody.
[10:32]
So it was a doubt which is not visible very easily or at once. And it's a kind of doubt which you can very easily put away by joking, making fun of it or making some jokes. And it felt like it would be very difficult not only to see this doubt, but also to let the doubt be there And it's somehow hard to express it, but I had the feeling that this doubt is not only that it's difficult to see this doubt, but also to let it stay and to investigate this doubt.
[12:03]
And this doubt somehow stuck on me. My feeling about this doubt is that it's somehow a doubt which is visible, for instance, in the supermarket, but it's also prevailing in all activities we are doing, we are sharing together in our society. And it's not so depressing anymore, this doubt and not so heavy?
[13:25]
And I just wanted to express this feeling of mine and also to share it because it's... Yeah, because it's very moving for me. I'm still thinking about yesterday's example about the beggars in Vienna. Because I realize in a certain amazement a change in my attitude towards beggars.
[14:58]
So usually I am very willing and very much willing to give to beggars And I'm also very touched by people playing the violin and et cetera. And Lina is used to that I'm giving, so that I'm giving money. And I realized that there is a certain attitude forming in myself where I close myself off. And I realized that I somehow am feeling some kind of as if people are trying to grab on me.
[16:15]
And sometimes I also hear how they are playing the violin and they are playing the violin terribly. Also with no heart in it. And I have the feeling that there is a kind of sentiment that it's my right that you give me money because you've got some and I've got nothing. And Linda always reminds me and tells me, well, usually you are giving, so why aren't you giving to this person? Yes. And Richard said yesterday that it's the attitude, the inner attitude that even if we don't give because we don't have money, we have the inner attitude that we are willing to give.
[17:40]
And now I'm even more confused because I realize in myself that I'm closed, that this willingness is not present. That happens. That happens. Das passiert. Someone else? Jemand anders? Yeah? Yesterday, I had a question that was But you translate yourself. I translate myself. Okay. When listening, I had the feeling yesterday that we have a very difficult concept in terms of verbal and Chinese language and English.
[18:45]
That I am not powerful in this language, that I cannot offer specific concepts because I do not have a language. While listening yesterday and today, I got the impression that it seems quite difficult sometimes to get ideas for concepts of Buddhism rooted in Chinese or Japanese language, to get this across into English. I know. And I'm wondering, If I don't know Czech or Chinese, if that is somehow prohibiting me to grasp certain concepts because I'm not capable of, I don't know this language.
[20:15]
My basic assumption is, of course, that it's very difficult to build concepts that I cannot talk about, that I have no words with. Perfect. What goes with it is also the idea, when we were talking about entities and relationships, that I thought, well, I think I have much more words for entities than for relationships. In English and German. I have to talk in German. It's quite a bit of a... It's human. It's human. Well, I started out studying Japanese and Chinese. I started out in college and I was working on a PhD in Buddhist studies and Asian studies and I had to know Japanese for sure at least.
[21:32]
And I had a grant to go to Japan to study. At some point I realized I just wanted to be with my teacher. And at a certain point I realized that I actually only wanted to be with my teacher. And I realized that if I went ahead with my academic program, It was clear that, and they made it pretty explicit, that my department at the University of California expected me to make them Not many more than any other graduate student, but my job was to then write books reflected back well on my mentors.
[23:01]
Und das war irgendwie nicht außergewöhnlich, das galt eigentlich für alle PhD-Studenten, dass die Arbeiten, die sie dann später schaffen, würden dann ein gutes Licht auf die Abteilung werfen sollten. They wanted my middle years. Sie wollten einfach meine mittleren Jahre. I want you from 30 to 50 to do the work of society. Sie wollen, dass du zwischen 30 und 50 die Arbeit der Gesellschaft tust. It was clear to me, I didn't want to give those years to them. I wanted to just practice with my teacher. And I also realized the root of understanding is my own practice not Japanese or Chinese. So I'm doing everything I'm doing just as I'm doing in practicing and in English. And there's probably, you know, it would be helpful to know more Chinese than I know, say, or Japanese. But I don't actually think it's much of a problem.
[24:29]
So anyway, that's my feeling, so, you know, I actually think the basic concepts we find in inhabiting our practice, not in reading. Weil ich denke, dass wirklich die grundlegenden Konzepte finden wir darin, dass wir unsere Praxis bewohnen und nicht dadurch, dass wir lesen. And it's a rare scholar who actually understands practice. Okay? Well, let me try to speak about this. We're having lunch at two? One? Okay. Is that okay? Yes, that's fine. Let me see if I can inhabit this habitation.
[25:47]
I often use the term gate phrases as a translation for . And gate phrases are... We only make sense as a practice. If you have a sense of this gate of each moment. So if we have, yeah, there's a little Zen poem that's stated now and then. The flower is not red, nor is the willow green. Or we, one of the ones I suppose that we use the most in Dharmasanga practice, is
[26:55]
Here we have the sense of, usually we feel we're not connected, so we counteract that. in an antidotal way with already connected. Or another one we use is just now is enough. Now, how do these work? What are they doing? And there's many more. Not knowing is nearest, I'm always close to this. These are all really useful to work with. So, what does the... Where does the statement, the flower is not red, bring you?
[28:34]
It brings you to a red flower. It's like, don't think of a polar bear pissing in the snow. Well, what are you all thinking about? So somehow the flower is not red brings you to a red flower. But in the red flower do we see the gate of the not red flower? The not red flower gate is hidden in the flower. Or if I say already connected, where does that bring you? It brings you to the gate of not connected. So in the midst of not connectedness you're looking for the gate of connectedness.
[29:51]
So it brings you to a wall and there's no door in the wall. Or just now is enough. brings you to the gate of not enough. And then you wonder, where is the gate of just now is enough in the midst of not enough? Okay, the such gate phrases are assuming invisible gate, gateless gates, as we said. It's assuming a world of gates that we can't see. So what do we do?
[30:52]
Let's go back to the beggars. What does the beggar want? Money or something, food. But first of all, they want attention. They want your attention, they're trying to get your attention. So, you know, you can give them your attention or you can just try to look actively not give them attention. There's a bunch of beggars in Freiburg that I try not to give attention to. But they're usually young, and they drink all day.
[32:07]
And they all have one dog or two dogs. And they're actually not all young, they're various ages, and they hang around and drink and smoke with all of their dogs. And had clearly chosen a lifestyle they want me to support. And although I kind of like them, I can also see myself choosing this lifestyle. Still, I don't think it helps him much to support him, so I don't give him much. But, you know, let's just go back to ordinary beggars. You know, I know some people who feel, well, they could get a job, look, they're healthy. Or they get help from the government or something.
[33:09]
But it takes social skills to get help from the government. So if you're doing this, I don't care what the reason is, this is not, yeah. That they're doing it is the overriding fact, not whether they're trying to cheat you or fool you or they really need money or they don't. So I'm just using it as an example of people you notice when you're walking along. And it used to be so bad in the United States that it was common to give your child a Christmas present of $20 that they could give away. Because there's so many of them. So first of all, they want attention. They want some kind of attention together.
[34:33]
And I suppose the good work I hear Cecily is doing is partly based on giving them attention. But each person you see, either most people don't want your attention. They just want to go do whatever they're doing. So what I'm saying is partly it's a sense of tuning. There's a whole series of tunings going on, I find, if I walk in a city like... Or if you're in the grocery store and talking to the bakery counter.
[35:49]
And you find yourself in a way tuned in to the doubt. Or tuned into the person. And most, one of the illnesses of culture is everyone thinks, I'm not smart enough, I'm not good enough. Or constantly comparing themselves to others. But you can assume that if you are tuned in, if you've tuned into this person.
[37:00]
There's a kind of channel open. So you can actually tune into the person's doubt or find yourself tuned in to the person's doubt. And then you can bring yourself into your own sense of free yourself from that doubt. And since you're already tuned in to each other, you probably will make her feel less doubt. Her or him. So what I'm saying here, I guess, is that we're in a kind of field of stations, radio stations, television stations, people stations. And they require different tuning.
[38:17]
And the tuning is more subtle than we can do with consciousness. We can affect it by intention but not by thinking. So these gate phrases are kind of tuning. You're finding yourself tuning. at a place where there's no gate, and you're trying to change the tuning. Now, okay, come back. Last night I started and yesterday I started speaking about the Zazen instructions.
[39:43]
No, we looked at don't scratch and count your breaths. So let me now speak about don't invite your thoughts to tea. Again, so we can review this together. We all know very easily, it's easy to sense, imagine, that we don't have to invite our first tea. We don't have to be distracted. But, If you practice regularly and you're in the midst of not inviting your thoughts to tea.
[40:45]
At some point you might wonder, the thought, it's also a thought to not invite your thoughts to tea. So if I really don't invite my thoughts to tea, I can't have the thought to not invite the thoughts to tea. Okay, so then the thought to not invite your thoughts to tea must be a different kind of thought. We don't have words in English. We just simply don't have words for these things.
[41:46]
We have other words for getting drunk, but not words for different kinds of thought. So what kind of thought is it that doesn't invite your thoughts to tea? I think the simplest thing is to call it an intentional thought. Okay, and what are the thoughts you're not inviting? They're discursive thoughts. Okay, so now you have a better territory when somebody says, we don't think in Zazen. It actually means, you don't think discursively. Now you may have intentional thoughts though.
[42:48]
Or intentions, if they're thoughts. So you can work on a koan or you can work with a gate phrase. As an intention, but not as a discursive thought. Okay. Now. Intentional you're not inviting your thoughts to tea, okay? The thoughts you're not inviting to tea in this concept are guests. You don't invite your guests to tea.
[43:52]
So you must be the host. Something must be the host. So the intentional thought is the host. And what is a host? A host is always at home. So then, if you pursue this practice, You see that you have a host mind and a guest mind. This is all quite clear. You're following what I'm saying. Okay, so what is the mind that's always at home? What is the host mind? What is the guest mind?
[44:53]
When are we in a host mind and when are we in a guest mind? And how can we tell the difference? And when we're in our discursive mind, thinking about this and that, Is the host mind still present? You know, we have koans which suggest this. You know, you want Dao, Wu and Yunyan. and Yunyan is sweeping and Daowu says too busy and Yunyan says you should know there is one who is not busy now it's the one that's the host mind the one that's not busy.
[45:56]
Now right now, are you in the midst of your guest mind or your host mind? Am I speaking from the host mind or the guest mind? And listening in your host mind or guest mind? I think often you're listening actually in your host mind. At least it seems so, because if I ask you what I said, you say, I don't know. And let's assume it's because your host mind was listening and not your guest mind. Now could the host mind perhaps notice gates that the guest mind can't? And is it in the host mind which just now is enough?
[46:58]
And how do we tune ourselves to the host mind or the guest mind? We have this big dog named Igor. And do you know the old joke about the kid who goes fishing with his father. Comes home and says, Mama, caught a fish this big, didn't we, Papa? So anyway, we have this dog. I mean, his father's name was Horse. And it's a great Pyrenees mountain dog. And he's a great gentle creature. But his tail can knock two lamps off different tables and... one sweep.
[48:33]
But Igor is this incredible animal. If you touch him, he's just It's like a Porsche idling. So with that sort of feeling, I sometimes pick up my little daughter underneath the ribs and things, and she's just like the dog. And I'm sure when she lies, that she often has her bottle on top of the dog. She curls up in the middle of all this white fur. Almost gone. And they share saliva and things like that. She tries to give it to the dog.
[49:53]
And I'm sure they're both actually tuning in to this kind of idling Porsche. And I think that's why she wants to get in bed with us a lot. Because we're actually idling Porsche, at least Fiat's. except sometimes I'm feeling like an old Chevrolet but we would say that when I feel the dog this way or Sophia this way that I'm free of thought coverings. And I gave you the example the other day of this, you know, you play this game.
[51:06]
And if somebody points out with consciousness a particular finger, and asks you to move it, the question puts you into your own consciousness, and then your consciousness can't figure out which finger it is. Because there's a double twist. But if you feel your finger from inside, of course you can move whichever finger you want. It's just a simple example that we know our body through thought consciousness. And if you take those off, you feel something different. Now, did any one of you happened to practice this morning with
[52:34]
whatness and wholeness. What is breathing instead of who is breathing? I think if you do practice with whatness, what is breathing just now? If you use this What is breathing instead of who is breathing? Yeah. What? What? Okay. Yeah. So, It's an impersonal word, what. We don't say who is this, we say what is this. Are we made up of what-ness or who-ness? Both. And now let's stop thinking entities.
[53:48]
Let's notice the mind that's noticing. And the wholeness mind, where does it function? The wholeness mind is the observing self. And the self is a function of consciousness. So as soon as you have wholeness, not really talking about something deep, you're actually generating consciousness. And you're noticing through consciousness. So it's not really who's breathing, it's consciousness is breathing. And you can notice, yeah, mostly consciousness is breathing. But when a person goes to sleep,
[54:55]
Wattness starts breathing. I mean, as I've often pointed out, if you go into a room and someone's pretending to sleep, your kid is pretending to sleep. We could almost always tell that they're pretending to be asleep. Because their breathing is not involuntary. And involuntary breathing, you can't really voluntarily breathe involuntarily. It's quite difficult. You can't voluntarily breathe involuntarily. So when you shift to whatness, to what is breathing, you're more likely to shift to awareness.
[56:10]
Awareness. And awareness and whatness is shared by others. You and I have a different wholeness. But we have a very similar whatness. We're both idling. We're both idling. Not machines, but you know, something like that. An unbelievable organic biological phenomenon. So whatness somehow actually ends up to be more intimate and personal than wholeness.
[57:19]
If I feel who is breathing, I don't feel his breathing much. If I feel what is breathing, I suddenly find all our breathings are in some kind of sea-like rhythm. Also wenn ich denke, wer atmet, dann fühle ich nicht sehr viel von seinem Atmen. Aber wenn ich denke, was atmet, dann merke ich, es ist eine Welle von gemeinsamen Atmen. Now we're very close to the idea in Buddhism of thusness. Und jetzt sind wir sehr nahe dieser Idee der Soheit im Buddhism. Whatness and thusness are very close. Washeit und Soheit, die sind sehr, sehr nahe. So I've been speaking about awareness and consciousness. And where is consciousness rooted? Mostly in thinking. Thinking is rooted in consciousness. Where is awareness rooted? In the body. So it's a more physical breath body phenomena is awareness.
[58:36]
So we tune into being in a different way through awareness. Through our shared awareness. A shared sameness. Sameness we say sometimes instead of vastness.
[59:04]
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