I think that for me it's good if there's a certain rhythm here. Which means I do quite a bit of talking. Speaking, if there's any difference. If there's any difference. I feel like I'm using the word immersed again as I used yesterday. And, you know, I feel like I'm immersed in a kind of field with you or liquid with you. Yeah, and I feel like I'm swimming towards you.

[01:04]

Yeah, I feel like I'm swimming towards each one of you simultaneously. That's my feeling. Some of you may, you know... not like the idea of my swimming toward you. You may be splashing me. But then I need you kind of to swim toward me. And So let's start anyway with anything you'd like to say about what we've been talking about.

[02:05]

Let me say I would like to... I would like to... get to a certain way of speaking about the two truths, which I've never done quite like I'd like to today. Yeah, and I don't want to make you swim with me towards something we're going to drown on the way. A triathlon, you know. Triathlon, huh?

[03:06]

Is that what you call it in German? Well, triathlon, yeah. Triathlon, all right. Okay. Um... Hmm... Perhaps I'm over-dramatizing this, but this is how I feel. So maybe we won't get there. But if we are going to make sense of the two truths, not just as a way to deal with the world in its complexity, but also as a way to discover

[04:14]

the knowing which is somehow comparable also to blind sight. Sondern auch vielleicht als eine Art und Weise, das Wissen oder Erkennen zu erfassen, das vielleicht mit dieser Blindsicht verglichen werden kann. And I'd like to get toward a way to suggest that at least. Und ich möchte gerne auf... What is the Greek seer theasaurus? How do you pronounce it in German? Thereseus. Thereseus. Is that how you say it? Thereseus. Thereseus. Thereseus, yeah. You better bone up on your classical education here. Maybe it's not just an accident he's blind.

[05:34]

Maybe blindness, when you begin to see in a way that's not possible only through consciousness, Maybe that does sensitize you to a wider sense of the world which you can acknowledge even if it's not ordinarily cognitively appreciable. I want to speak about this because I want to know with you, not just by myself, what it is to be a being. But, I mean, we're not, as I often say, we're not dragonflies.

[06:52]

I mean, you've noticed that in the past, I'm sure, that you're not a dragonfly. Meaning that the dragonfly, I mean, that the dragonfly has its own world, which is not comparable to ours, what it sees and does. Double wings around. bedeutet, dass eine Libelle ihre eigene Welt hat, die mit unserer nicht vergleichbar ist, und all das, was sie tut, die Art, wie sie sieht, mit ihren Flügeln und so weiter. So I can't extend our practice to what it is to be a dragonfly. Und ich kann unsere Praxis nicht dahin ausweiten, was es bedeuten würde, eine Libelle zu sein. We do have these concepts of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, And a way of being in the world which is more deeply accurate and satisfying. And if it is the case, and I know it is the case, at least to some extent,

[08:11]

Then what greater adventure could we have? Okay. Yeah. But if anything like that is possible, we have to discover a location which is not self-referential consciousness. And what I suggested earlier, just before lunch, that a kind of easy solution instant Instant selflessness.

[09:19]

Just mix in a little breath. Instant selflessness. Because if you really can shift your sense of location, In other words, now you're able to, by counting breaths, you're able to stay with your breath. And now by following your breath, you're able to stay within a simultaneous interiority. And you can make that breath-breathing interiority and space your location. Well, automatically you're not I've got a better breath location than you.

[10:39]

I mean, you're not going to make those kind of comparisons. My breath location earns more money than yours does. It's a kind of instant... an easy way if you can just stay with the breath body space. You can create a location which you can sustain quite a bit during the day and it will affect how you dream too and so forth. that, again, is not dominated by self-referential noticing, thinking, etc. Now that can be the location from which the two truths arise.

[11:41]

Because the two truths are ways of looking at and experiencing the world. and bringing the world into your own experience. But you need a starting point, a location. And this breath-body space can be the location from which the two truths unfold and fold in. So what I'm asking you is, do you have some experience of being such a location or discovering something close to that in your ordinary life? Which is probably not ordinary, but you know, it's something.

[13:03]

Now I hope that question is not too much right after lunch. When you need a nap or at least a dessert. So now I will... take a break and listen. Who will be second? Yes. Yes. When I'm with one person and speak with that person something then I sometimes try to get into the same breath rhythm.

[14:20]

And then that generates this shared space. And it's like in music, you enter the same timing. Yeah, I understand. Thank you. Yes? You're a tailor. I'm finding that I can generate this in daily life. [...] but I find it difficult to maintain because in ordinary life there are so many things I need to think about or things to do and that I need to invest in and so forth.

[15:39]

Things that one needs to dive into and one has to leave that breath-body space in order to do that. You can't do both at once. Or maybe it's like staying with breath, where I can't always stay with breath, but just the intention to do that makes a difference, and so then the breath is always nearby. Yeah, like that, too. Thank you. Yes?

[16:46]

Hi, how are you? Good. I think that the planet has changed. I think it's easier with nature or with things from nature than with people. I'm a little shocked by this, but it is the case that for me, I have an easier time with nature or aspects of nature than with people. It's not uncommon. This is not so unusual. If you try to answer this question, So in order to respond to the question, and the question is formulated such that one would also have to say a little bit about how one understands the question, so that's what I would like to start with.

[17:51]

I'm waiting. I imagine a situation where I take on a task that I do not especially not with discursive thinking, but where I somehow have to put myself into what I am in front of, actually from my feeling, as if it were possible for me to feel this thing in myself. I'm imagining a situation which I can't solve through thinking, particularly not discursive thinking, and where I somehow have to find a way to feel myself into that which I'm dealing with, almost as if I can feel it from within myself.

[19:04]

For me, the best example is when I cut wood. For me the best example is when I chop wood. Ich sehe das Holz vor mir und ich spüre, dass es eine Stelle gibt, wo mein Beil hinein muss, um es spalten zu können. Aber erstens weiß ich nicht bewusst, welches es ist. Und zweitens könnte ich das Beil auch nicht so führen, dass es diese Stelle treffen würde, wenn ich es bewusst machen möchte. So I see the piece of wood and I can feel that there is a place where I need to hit it with my axe. But through conscious looking at it I wouldn't know where that place is and plus I wouldn't have the conscious skills to hit the axe in the exact way that it hits that space, that place. And so then what I need to do is just look at the wood and just let the axe, just let that lead the axe.

[20:14]

And whoever has done that before would also know that that means it has to entirely coincide with breathing by coincidence. And axes are rather sharp. We need you at Crestone. We know in the winter we only have firewood and we need a lot of kindling cut. You can go back with me. Yeah, for me that's what I call letting the body make micro decisions all the time, as much as possible. It's related to what we're talking about, but for me as a practice, it comes out of letting my body make micro decisions, what I do, what I wear, things like that.

[21:44]

Yes, David. David, my neighbor from Freiburg. Yes. I have one question referring to what we just spoke about, but which also goes back a little bit. Yes. sounds maybe like a very basic question, but we are starting with the assumption that we want to make life worth living.

[22:56]

Yeah, why not? It's a better idea than most. Bessere Annahme als viele andere. Es ist nur eine Frage, also ich habe schon ein bisschen Konkretiv. Ist denn And so my question is, and maybe a little provocatively, isn't it possible to live a very satisfying life in self-referential consciousness? But there are so many identified thoughts that can have extremely positive effects. That's true.

[23:58]

Yes, of course. There's lots of ways to have a satisfying life. Ja, but what can I say? I mean, it's easy to get sick of oneself, too. Es ist auch sehr leicht, dass man seiner selbst überdrüssig wird. And it depends on the degree to which you are self-referential all the time. Und es hängt von dem Ausmaß ab, wie sehr man ständig selbstbezogen ist. If it really is consuming, other people find you pretty boring. Wenn es wirklich ein sehr All he thinks about is himself. And then you have to fake it and pretend you think about others sometimes.

[25:14]

Anyway, I think you should just try it. I mean, you're clearly here because you have some doubts. So this is something you have to decide for yourself. What we would say for your small self and your big self. But I know you as a big self kind of guy. That doesn't mean selfish. That means you're selfish. covers how you understand the world. Not in a selfish way, but in a way that you... Anyway, yeah. Das bedeutet nicht, großes Selbst bedeutet nicht, besonders selbstbezogen zu sein, sondern es bedeutet, dass das Selbst die Welt bedeckt als eine Art und Weise, wie man die Welt...

[26:40]

Thank you for being provocative. Thank you for being provocative. Someone else? Yes, please. I know the experience when I work with people who are actually friends with me, who don't belong to my family and who don't... I have this experience when I work with people who are actually strangers to me, who are not part of my family and also aren't my friends. To return to this breath observation. I maintain this breathing space and I notice, I don't observe every breath, but I notice when I fall out of this softness or from this wide space, so it's more the other way around,

[27:57]

Although I'm not observing every single breath, I do notice when I fall off of this softness or this wide feeling. So it's that way around. And then I can, it's as if I can enter a kind of adventure with the person I'm with and I can sort of come out of myself or so. And then in that dialogue, something can occur that's through the shared, through the togetherness, that's entirely out of my control.

[29:17]

Yeah, thank you again. For me, I wonder, you know, I've Since a few times a year I fly back and forth between the United States and here, obviously. I just arrived the other day. You know, let's say I know 300 people pretty well. I just picked a number. A hundred and fifty of them are dead. One of them is Dogen. And there's probably another 150 that I know here and there. And, like, just you guys. I love you. I mean, I like you. Yeah. But then there's all those airport people and train station people. I might like to get to know them, but they're usually going in a different direction.

[30:42]

So I really look very carefully and sort of feel myself in a space with them. It's quite interesting, actually. Rilke bedeviled himself with, how do you relate to the all, the allness of people? Bedeviled? Bedeviled, okay. He means he perplexed himself by asking himself the question, how can you relate to the allness of people? That's a different seminar. Das ist ein anderes Seminar.

[31:51]

Okay. Someone else. You haven't said anything yet. No, behind you. Do you have something you'd like to say? I mean, I see it on your face. There are things happening. Ich sehe auf deinem Gesicht, dass da Dinge stattfinden. That afternoon I had the feeling that my thoughts were no longer in my head, but that my thoughts were part of my breathing body. And that's when they stopped bothering me, they stopped bothering me. This afternoon in sitting, I had a feeling that my thoughts were no longer part of my head, but they were part of my breath body. And then I had the feeling that my thoughts weren't disturbing me in the same way that they had disturbed me before.

[32:55]

That's really good to notice. Because when you start noticing those things, the whole inner experience begins to develop. Okay. Yes. Yes. And that's not measurable. It reminds me a bit of Heidegger, that there is a being that exists in being, and it's also a bit difficult to understand. There are also other new words that the German icon has given, because I think that language cannot express that. I'd be interested to hear more about the non-thinkable thinking or the unmeasurable thinking. And it reminds me a bit of Heidegger who speaks about the beingness in being. And so he worked with words that before him didn't even exist in German.

[34:00]

Yeah, that's true. And he also took words like being, which everyone takes for granted, and no one says, hey, actually, what do we mean by that? I mean, what I like about Heidegger is that... he really thinks about things and writes about the thinking about things in great detail. And even though I don't quite agree with him often, but he comes very close, but not quite what I would say. Oh, my. But the complex, detailed topography of his thinking affects mine.

[35:14]

So after the break, I would like to come back to this Hishiryo, non-measured thinking. So what I'd like to do after one or two more comments, if anyone has something you'd like to say. Yes. I've tried to find out for myself, spatially looking, where does my discursive thinking take place. And if I consider myself a space, then what I found is that this cursive thinking happens in the right upper part of space. Where the head is. Yeah, I understand.

[36:51]

Yeah, go ahead. And I found it helpful to bring attention more to the bodily present aspects by withdrawing attention from that part of space more into the left part of the body, of the space, for example. Or, for example, when I think, I often breathe more on the right nostril and then just change it, make a physical change. In that case, I think it's easier to think. Or I've noticed that when I think I tend to breathe more into the right nostril and so I have found it useful to make a physical shift and change that so that I'm breathing more in the other nostril and then I'm realizing that that physical shift makes it easier for me to direct the thinking.

[38:13]

And if then I go into a feeling space where I can feel other people more, Then I feel like I have a space in which the other bodies are, which feels more like water or air, which is not on top of my head, but is lower, like a common sea or tree that you swim together. This is exciting, yeah. Then I also have a feeling of being more in a shared medium with these other people, like maybe in underwater or, yeah, like that.

[39:22]

And then that feeling also takes care of that I don't feel I need to think about the other people so much. Yeah? She's a teacher. I wish when I was the age of your students, you were my teacher. I would be much more advanced now. Yeah, I think it's also good to trust such things that sound a little crazy to most people. I'm locating myself in my upper right hand and then I breathe through my nose. What? I think it's also good to trust things that sound pretty crazy to many people, like, for example, that you locate your thinking on the right upper right hand and then through the other nose. But having the confidence to do that is great. That's because your father brought you here when you were still forming.

[40:30]

And that is a very basic breathing practice to shift from using the one nostril most of the time to the other nostril and studying how that affects the mind. And it definitely does affect the mind. And if you don't do it intentionally, it's useful just to notice when there's more of an emphasis or use of one side than the other. And if you don't do it on purpose, then it's still useful or helpful to note whether you use one nose half more than the other or something like that. Yes, Adnan? Yes, you also talked about it, so practice also means learning a craft.

[41:37]

You spoke about that practice also means to learn a craft and then also to apply that craft. And one craft clearly is the practice of asking questions. or to question one's experience. And there's a counter-question in one of the koans, what do you call the world? And So I've been asking myself that question for a long time and sometimes I'm finding that just by asking the question, it's like it opens a space maybe behind or above or underneath or in front.

[43:17]

It opens a space just the mere asking of the question and I might not exactly know what's in that space, but I don't really need to know, but just to feel the opening of that space is sometimes enough. And just to feel that space or give space to that is almost more satisfying or nourishing. To then send in the discursive wanting to know kind of thinking into it and to try to figure out how did I do that or what is that space and so forth. Because it is also an experience with my thinking.

[44:27]

I mean, I can think a lot and I can basically think everything. But I can also feel, no matter how I think and how skillfully I think, it doesn't get there or it just scratches on the surface. And then that's also an experience with my thinking. I can think a lot, but then I can also experience that no matter how skillfully I think this, that that really only scratches the surface and it doesn't reach there. Yeah, I agree completely again. And that question... what do you call the world, if the question was just what is the world, that doesn't have much depth to it. But when the question is what do you call the world, there's a profundity there that can continuously be explored.

[45:35]

What do you call that? Keep answering that forever. When I ask myself, what is the world, then I have the feeling that I have to give something general or lexicon-rich from myself. Or it's also this difference when I ask myself the question, what is the world? Then I feel like I have to answer to it in a way that can just be written into a lexicon or something. But when I ask myself, what do I call the world, then that's a moment by moment my decision.

[46:41]

And it only depends upon me and nothing else. Yeah. So, yes, thank you very much. What I'd like to do now, with Atmar and Nicole's help, is break up into small groups. And continue the discussion as we've started it. Or as you wish, whatever you want to do, of course, that engages you and others. And so why don't we start with making the decision, you know, the kindergarten stuff, and then we can have a break. And when we come back together, and no report is necessary afterwards.

[47:55]

Or we'll just continue the discussion afterwards. Or maybe I'll find a monkey wrench. That's what the union used to do at the Ford Motor Plant. In Germany, they throw sand. Oh, I see.

[48:28]

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