Good morning. Once a month we have what we call kidzendo, which is the first 10 minutes is a kids talk. So today the subject of kids talk is bells. So, would you mind bringing over the bills? Big and small? Big and small. Thank you.

[01:10]

Thank you. So, today we're going to have a little fun with bells. a little lesson about bells. So I want everybody to tell me their name. My name is Sojin Mel. Sojin Mel. Okay. Yeah. And? I'm Malcolm. Okay. And? I'm Alex. Hi, Alex. So, when we have our service, which is chanting, huh?

[02:16]

Okay, I'll give you your chance in a moment. When we have our service, which is chanting and bowing, we always ring the bells. So that's a lot of fun. I don't say that we hit the bells. We don't hit the bell. We ring the bell because the bell has a ring or a voice. Did you know that? We want the bell to sing. And so how does the bell sing? That's interesting. So I want each one of you to come up and make the bell sing or ask the bell to sing. But first of all, I want to say, This is me. This is the bell. What's this? Okay, this is the go-between.

[03:19]

It's the go-between. This is the messenger. Because what the bell is doing is saying something for me. The bell is saying something for me. The bell is communicating something for me. And so it's saying something. So when we sound the bell, we are saying something. And the bell is echoing what we're saying, silently. Okay? Come on. But don't forget, no hitting. I'll show you how. You go like this. You just go. Let it fall. Okay?

[04:20]

Good! Okay? Try again. No hitting. No hitting. Good. Malcolm? No hitting. Great. Okay. If you hit on top, it won't work. It's got to be on the side. From the inside is okay. Like this. Just let it swing. Got to hit the rim. Yeah.

[05:26]

Very nice. Now, there are different kinds of bells, you know. This is a different kind, but these bells is like a big body and a mouth, right? It's all mouth. There's a poem. This is a bell that has a little clamper inside, right? So did you ever hear, do you know what a wind bell is? The wind bell is a bell that hangs like this and has a string and some paper to catch the wind. Yes, that's right. So when the paper catches the wind, the bell goes... Right?

[06:34]

So there's a poem about that. The wind bell, its whole body is its mouth. The wind blows from the west, the east, the south, or the north. It doesn't matter. The wind bell just sings whichever song the direction tells it to sing. Ding dong, ding dong, ding dong. So this bell is a big pot belly with a huge mouth. The whole thing is mouth, right? So it sings. And if I put my hand on it, nothing happens. So in order to make a sound, it has to be loose. So... The looser, the better.

[07:37]

And the weight of the beater, I mean the weight of the go-between, The weight of the go-between is what communicates what I wanted to say. So, the voice of the bell matches my voice. Wah, wah, [...] wah. All these vibrations. You know, it's all vibrations. Everything is vibrating. All the time. But you don't always hear everything's vibration. Big vibrations. Fast. Okay. Now we get to the big ones. I have to find my hand. Okay.

[08:44]

This is too low for me. But I'll see if I can do something here. Then you notice that I'm not hitting the bell. It's got this big, heavy go-between, but it's very gentle. Just let the weight go. Boom. Boom. You want to try it?

[09:45]

Yeah, come on. Come on. You can do it. You show him how. Do it from the outside. Get down on your knees. Let's have someone show it. Not that I know how to do it myself, but you do it like this, right? Just let it go. Just let it go. Don't hit. Good. Come on. Come on, you guys. Come on, Alex. Get on your knees. Down on your knees. No, no, no. The other way. The other way. Don't hit.

[10:46]

Just let it fall. That's it. Do it once more. One more. One more. Don't push. Don't push. Just let it fall. Okay. Okay. You're off the hook. Come on, take a look at me.

[11:46]

Okay, you don't have to do it. Well, thank you very much. I think it was a good lesson and you all learned a lot and so did I. Yes? Okay, stand up and turn around. Why didn't the skeleton go to the Halloween party? Because there's no body to go with. You don't have any jokes, huh?

[12:46]

Okay. Well, you can either stay or go. Well, I forgot to tell them the story.

[14:20]

But I'll tell you the story. But I've told you the story before. This is a story, I can't remember the master's name. I can't remember the master's name. But this is actually a true story. There was a a farmer who had a son, but he didn't have a wife for one reason or another. He was a very poor farmer and he couldn't really support the son. This is very common in Japan. And so he wanted to have the monks in the monastery take care of the son, which they used to do that. There were these boys that would become acolytes in the temples, in the monasteries.

[15:28]

So he took his son to the monastery and turned him over to the abbot. And in those days, they would teach the young Aqualites to ring the bells. And they have these big bonsho bells, which have a log, and you pull back on the log and let it go, and it hits this huge bell in the bell tower. So one day the abbot was having tea with his attendant, and he heard this big wonderful sound coming out of the bell. And he said, who's doing that? And so the attendant went out and brought back the little boy. And he said, are you really doing that?

[16:34]

What were you thinking about when you were doing, when you were ringing that bell? And the boy said, well, my father told me that whenever I, that they were going to teach me to ring the bell. And whenever I made a sound on the bell, he said, whenever you make a sound on the bell, you give birth to a Buddha. So that's what was in his attitude when he was ringing the bell. And so he grew up to be a famous Zen master. So this is an inspiring story, and I often tell this to people when I'm teaching them to ring the bell. We think about the bell as keeping time. And because we are so intent on having the bell ring at the right time, we don't necessarily think about the quality of the sound.

[17:50]

But actually, the quality of the sound is, I don't want to say the most important thing, but actually it is. All the factors are as important as one another. But the quality of the sound is what carries the feeling. And these bells, these wonderful Japanese bells, the old ones were, of course, handmade. And they're made in such a way, you notice they have these little dents in them. And although I've never seen this done, and I don't know exactly the process, but the little dents come from hammer blows. And they have someone with hammers, people with hammers, hammering, and at the same time, someone lifting up.

[18:54]

It's like a big sheet of bronze. And as they hammer, they push. And the vibrations, the hammering and the pushing shape the bell. And it gives it this wonderful quality of sound. And so when I teach people to ring the bells, I always encourage them to find the voice of the bell. Because each bell has its own unique voice. And the bells are meant to the voice of the bell should be an inspiring sound. So I always ask people to, each time we hit the bell, to find that the center of the sound of the bell, there's always a center to each sound. And the center of the sound corresponds to the center of the person. So when we sound the bell, of course we use our arms and hands, but the impulse comes from what we call the hara.

[20:07]

This is where the fundamental impulse comes from the hara through the body. through the go-between and produces the sound from the bell. So bell, go-between, and hara, that's all one piece. Should all be one, no separation. So the bell is not an object. when we sound the bell, the bell is not an object. We think often in terms of objects and ourself, subject and object. But basically, animate and inanimate objects are all related and have the same source. So when we ring the bell from our hara, which is the center or the source, the gateway to the source, we become one with the bell and one with the sound, and there's no separation.

[21:30]

And then people say, oh, what a wonderful sound. So this kind of resonance, we resonate with things in the same way. We resonate with each other, hopefully, in the same way. Because basically, our nature is the same. And each one of us is a different expression of that one Buddha nature. And when we find our resonance with each other in that way, we recognize each other in each other. We recognize ourself in each other. So my teacher always, his characteristic

[22:36]

as I always say, was that he always addressed the Buddha nature in each person. He always addressed the fundamental nature in each person and in each whatever it is that he was handling or engaged with. If it was a teacup, You know, he said, we handle a teacup with two hands, not just one hand. You know, because it's so small, and we're so much kind of strong, you know, when we do this, this is treating the cup as an object. But he would always treat the cup as a part of himself. So when he would lift the cup, he would drink out of it, but he and the cup and the tea, there was no separation. It was all one piece.

[23:38]

This is actually the essence of Zen practice. It's all one piece. So his actions were not extraordinary. There was nothing extraordinary about his actions at all, or different, But the extraordinary thing was that quality of connection, of realizing that when you pick up the cup and drink out of the cup, the cup is you and you are the cup. The tea is you and you are the tea. There's that equality of no separation, even though each thing keeps its own place, as it says in the Sandaukai. Even though everything is one piece, each individual piece keeps its own place and has its own function in its own position.

[24:53]

So when we train for doing this, our so-called service, I suppose it's a funny name, but that's what we call it. A service is okay as long as we realize it's serving something. It's serving something, and serving something is what brings us together. We serve each other. So this kind of training helps us to understand how to bring together various diverse subjects and objects into one piece. So there's really no separation. We also have this wooden fish that we beat the hell out of.

[26:03]

We don't want to beat it. That long stick is called the beater, but I don't want to call it the beater. Because when we use it, we just let the go-between fall. on the beater, I mean on the fish, and the fish has a fish song which matches our pulse. You know, if you feel, dum, [...] in the olden days, this is the way people, like, you know, in the, before 15th century, people would judge the tempo of music based on their pulse, their heartbeat. And that was a kind of standard for how you determine the tempo of a piece of music.

[27:07]

You can go a little faster than your heartbeat or slower than your heartbeat, but it was connected with the impulsion of the heartbeat. And when we play this mokugyo, which is a wooden fish, I don't know exactly how they get a fish out of it, but there's just a mouth there. Looks like a whale from the sea. Yeah, and well, there's also two dragons holding a ball between their teeth. the back. It's an interesting instrument. But it's hollow. And to just bring out the quality of that hollow sound is like a heartbeat. So that same quality, boom, [...] it's not hitting, not hitting. I remember Suzuki Roshi saying, if you hit, you know, if you keep going on like this, the poor thing will have a heart attack.

[28:09]

So, you know, to create a situation where we bring out the best quality of whatever it is that we're relating to, we bring out the most, address the Buddha nature and bring out that quality in everything that we relate to. We don't always do that. Sometimes we get angry. It's not easy to do all the time, but that's our effort. There's also, in Japan, another way of ringing the bells, which is to just hit it as hard as you can. I have heard that in Japan, too. And it sounds fine. You know, there's something about that that it's like a very strong signal.

[29:21]

Our particular way is more like a instead of forcing something to nudge it, instead of forcing a certain kind of quality to coax the sound, to encourage the sound, encourage that feeling. But there's a wide range. I think mostly in the Rinzai temples is where I've heard that loud kind of bang, [...] bang. Whereas the Soto temples is more boom, boom, boom, a kind of deep sound, deeper and wider vibrations. So there are all kinds of bells sounds in

[30:29]

this Zen practice. There's, you know, the umpan. Umpan is like a plate, a metal plate. And it just goes bang, [...] bang. And it's usually used for calling to meals. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. It's a little different kind of sound. So there are all kinds of different bell sounds. And then there's the wooden bell called the Han. And the wooden bell is usually used to call to Zazen. It's used in the monastic community. And when we began to sit here back in the 80s, I thought, well, should we have a Han or not? But we decided not to because of the neighbors. We didn't want to disturb the neighbors.

[31:34]

Something like that. So, and as I was saying to the children, let the go-between just fall on the bell. Don't try to hit it. We don't hit the bell because the bell doesn't respond so well to hitting. When the bell maybe gets defensive, and won't respond. So just let the weight of the beater do the work.

[32:39]

And in a way, chanting is the same. The looser you are when you chant, the looser your vocal cords, and the deeper the source, the easier it is, and the nicer it sounds, and it makes loose vibrations. So, and loose vibrations gives us a looser state of mind. And this also relates to zazen. The looser our body is, the easier it is to sit zazen. And the vibrations of zazen become more easy and loose, and there's less pain and resistance and problem. So actually one of the big secrets, which is not a secret, of how to live our life is to do it loosely.

[33:46]

I don't mean to be loose, but not ethically, but to be, to find that loose quality which is not full of tenseness. There's tenseness and tension. Tension holds everything together. Everything is held together by a certain tension. Buildings have tension. People have tension. Without tension, everything falls to the ground. So there has to be a certain amount of tension that holds everything the integrity of something together. But tenseness is that which is extra, which you don't need. And that tenseness is what creates problems in our body and our mind and our attitude and transmits to our surroundings.

[34:53]

So when we find our looseness in zazen, realizing that all the different parts of our body are simply connected, but only loosely, then we find the place where we put our effort that makes everything work really well. The least amount of effort to do the most amount of work, to produce the most satisfaction. And so that translates, when we take that from Zazen, that attitude and introduce that into all of our activities, then our activities have that loose quality as well. And the vibration makes everything around us feel comfortable.

[35:57]

So it certainly translates to the bells. And it, you know, we say that The quality of our chanting echoes the quality of our zazen. And the quality of ringing the bells and doing those things echoes the quality of our zazen. And so this is what we take into the world from Zazen. My teacher would say, you don't have to think about doing anything special. Just the quality of your Zazen will have its effect in your environment.

[37:10]

without you having to do anything special. So the thing to do is to work on the quality of Zazen. It's like with your children. You tell your children all kinds of things and you wonder why they don't mind or why they don't respect what you say. What they respect is who you are and what you do. And it's the same thing in Zazen. In Zazen, You may say, I'm a Zen student, but people may not respect that. But what they do respect would be what they feel from you, which comes from Zazen. So, do you have any question? Yeah. Can you say something about the relative amount of energy that should go into, you know, should the bell sound soft or loud and when should it sound soft?

[38:20]

Yeah, sometimes, you know, the bell should be soft and sometimes loud, but it doesn't take very much more effort to make the bells loud as it does to make them soft. It's not like, you know, you have to, it's, you're guiding the beater. I mean, the go-between. You're guiding it. And it's a matter of subtle guidance. If you want the bell to have a big sound, just think, big sound. If you want it to have a soft sound, just think, soft sound. And your body will take care of that. When do you want a big sound? Mostly we should have a medium sound. Mostly. Soft sound maybe early in the morning, you know, when people are just starting to sit zazen.

[39:26]

Big sound when we're doing the bodhisattva ceremony. When everybody's chanting. and then a bigger sound. But you have to be careful that you're not overdoing it, that you're not hitting the bell in order to make the big sound. You can get a big sound in the same way you get a soft sound. The technique should not differ. Peter. Thank you very much. You know, in Kassihara they don't call it a beater. What do they call it? They call it a striker. Striker, yeah. You could call it a clapper. There's also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't there a han over the door of the dog sauna? There is a han over the door of the dog sauna. An old han from Tassajara. Eventually, the hammer hammers a hole in it.

[40:28]

So this is an old one that I put up there. What came to mind when you were talking earlier was I think it was after the practice period when I was at Tassajara the last time, I think it might have even been during guest season, because I think Paul was the doshi. There was a morning I was particularly attuned to the bells for some reason, and the dohan, the last, sounded that big bell before the jindo. And if you've been to Tassajara, the big bell, after you sound it, it goes boom, [...] for quite a while. It's very powerful. And I noticed that After Paul had done his complete Jindo, had done the bow of the altar, she had rung three small bells, and he had taken his seat. The big bell was still going. Still going, yeah. You could still hear it. Yeah. And it really brought home to me how much the bells create, whether you noticed it or not. They create the atmosphere. Because I never had noticed before how long that... Yeah.

[41:30]

Well, that's right. That's a huge bell. Yeah. Really big. And that creates the atmosphere. It really adds to the atmosphere. And the atmosphere in the Zen Dojo is very important. It's also very interesting that the spacing of the sound of the big bells, if the waves collided with each other, it would die. And if the waves came together, the sound of the waves would get larger. Right. Yeah. Nessie? A couple of things, but maybe I'll try to just do one. Sometimes when I'm putting away dishes, I have some wine glasses. I usually put milk in them or whatever, but I'll be putting them away and they'll clink. And I think, oh, if there were a Maybe I would be responsible for setting up a small zendo, you know, just in my neighborhood, because nobody could get off my block or something, and I'd have to use these wine glasses.

[42:38]

Uh-huh. Anyway, just a notion. I think that's good, you know. I'm a little bit of a megalomaniac. It all depends on me. Well, you know, there's a musical instrument made out of glasses. And Mozart composed a sonata or something using that. Yeah, it's a nice sound. But I was thinking about anthropomorphism. I think it doesn't really apply to your talk so much. Probably not. I think we have to go. One more question. One more back in the... I can't see who you are. Oh yeah, that bell. I don't think I've ever heard it. We use that bell on Halloween. Sagaki ceremony. That's the only time? No. We use it for sashins.

[43:41]

That's the bell that we ring instead of the little bell for starting and stopping zazen. Yeah. Very nice, thank you. Melody. I just wanted to say that I happened to be at Tassajaro when, I guess it was a phone call came that May Lee Scott had died, and immediately they began to ring the big bell on the porch of the Jacinto 108 times, and we could go up and have a turn, and the sound just filled the whole alley. Thank you.

[44:33]

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