As I mentioned before, it is clearly said by the founder of the Tendai School in China, Jiri, and the founder in Pan, Dogen, that the the mind of awakening, the thought of awakening, the thought of perfect, complete, unsurpassed awareness, the thought of that, in other words, the profound wish-forth that arises in a spiritual communion between sentient being and that awakening.

[01:01]

The awakening doesn't make it come up in the mind of a living being, and the living being does not make it come up in the mind of the living being. The cause is this communion. And this is the seed of Buddhahood, this actual thought, an intention, a wish in the living being's mind. Other thoughts that occur in the minds of living beings also are not caused, Buddhas do not make them come up in our minds. and we do not make them come up in our minds. They also come up through a kind of relationship with all things. But this special thought seems to come up when other conditions are satisfied.

[02:19]

Now, tonight we have a plan to do a ceremony of giving the bodhisattva precepts to three people. And the first three precepts are going for refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. When some Asian people have found out about our Soto Zen precepts, which are the three refuges, in a sense the first precept is going for refuge in Buddha, the first three precepts, then the three pure precepts, and then the ten major, what are sometimes called, ...precepts, but also can be called ten major precepts of restraint.

[03:25]

When they see these sixteen, they say, oh, we don't usually think of the three refuges as precepts. They do understand going for refuge as fundamental to entering the Buddha way, but they don't usually think of them as precepts. They're so, I don't know what, omnipresent that they don't maybe notice them as precepts. They're kind of like, oh, you think of them as precepts, okay. I don't know who besides the founder, the great teacher Dogen, I don't know who besides that teacher has said that the merit of going for refuge in the Triple Treasure

[04:47]

occurs in the spiritual communion. But he wrote that. So there's a family going to a refuge in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. There's a fascicle, Shobo Genzo fascicle. about that. And in there he says, going for refuge occurs within the spiritual communion. So this is a little bit different. The previous statement is saying that the thought occurs in the spiritual communion. Something a little different is saying that the merit of going for refuge, so most many Buddhists, if not all, go for refuge.

[05:55]

The merit of it isn't just the person going for refuge. what they do, I take refuge in Buddha. They do say that, but the merit of that occurs in this spiritual communion between the person who is going for refuge and the Buddhas and bodhisattvas The person is going for refuge. The merit comes up. So in the first case, the thought of enlightenment, the aspiration for enlightenment occurs in spiritual communion. Now we're saying that the merit of our activity, our human activity, I take refuge in Buddha, the merit of that action occurs in the communion also. Now, Dogen also goes on to say that when there is spiritual communion, there will be going for refuge.

[07:02]

So one is that when we go for refuge, the merit of that occurs in the spiritual communion. The other way to say it is, somewhat differently, when there is this communion, we will go for refuge in the triple treasure. And then it goes on to say, because we're talking about merit now, I'll say it again, the merit occurs in the communion, and when there's communion, the merit of going for refuge occurs in the communion, and when there's communion, we'll go for refuge. And then when we go for refuge, the merit of going for refuge occurs in the communion again, and then this merit will grow. It will grow and grow. The merit of refuge, which occurs, which starts when you go for refuge and continues when you go for refuge in this community, the merit of it grows and grows and grows, leading to Buddhahood.

[08:17]

And so, receiving the precepts, it doesn't say it says the merit of... Maybe someplace else he says it, but I don't know any place else where he says this. But I'm saying this, that the merit of receiving the other precepts, the merit of receiving the three pure precepts, the merit of receiving the precepts of restraint, the merit of that activity, which will happen tonight, and actually, which happened this morning, too. We, in a sense, received. But more literally tonight, the people will receive these precepts. That receiving occurs in the spiritual communion. And that merit too will grow. By the way, demerit also grows.

[09:32]

This is merit. It grows and grows. And a synonym for this spiritual communion is intimacy. Intimacy. I think there's some glasses in the kitchen right here. Could you fill one with water and bring it to me? In the last class we had here, towards the end, Vanessa raised the precept of not killing. And was talking about, well, what kind of relationship would be appropriate if I wanted to practice that precept, what kind of relationship would be appropriate with fish.

[10:34]

So, the merit of that precept in relationship to fish will be realized in spiritual communion. the merit of that precept in relationship to fish will occur, thank you very much, will occur in intimacy, period, and in particular in intimacy with the fish. So what can happen between you and fish, or between you and human beings, or between you and spiders, or between you and rats? What can occur there when there's intimacy, when there's spiritual communion?

[11:49]

Well, what can occur there is the thought of enlightenment can arise. And also going for refuge in Buddha can arise. And also the precept of not killing can arise. So there you are in relationship to something, like a fish, and the precept arises. And the precept arises because of intimacy with fish and with Buddhas. And now what are in accord with that? So let the spiritual communion, let the intimacy be present, be mindful, remember the intimacy of our actions and then watch to see what human actions occur. And if the human actions

[12:54]

Well, and if the human actions are not in accord with intimacy, if the human actions seem not in alignment or not in homage to this relationship between you and the Buddhas, well then, this is a lack of faith. This is a lack of practice. got knocked off somehow, got out of alignment with intimacy. So then, we have a practice today. which is, I acknowledge that somehow there was a lack of intimacy in this case, there was a lack of faith, and in that lack of faith there was a lack of awareness of spiritual communion, and there was an action which was not in accord with that, and I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed, I regret it.

[14:11]

I feel remorse. And I mentioned the word emphasis because this morning I was looking at the word disgust. And the difference in the feeling in English between disgust and remorse. But they both have to do with eating. Disgust has to do with gustatory. Disgust has to do with gustatory. Where were you when the power went out? It means like, sort of like, to get it out of the... It kind of means to spit it out.

[15:19]

Not eat, reject. But remorse we read, again, to taste. Remorse is related to maja, to eat. The taste again, that lack of intimacy, that lapse in mindfulness of the communion, which is zazen. As I mentioned earlier, in the ceremony we sit, after doing the confession and repentance precept ceremony. We didn't do it this morning when we did the confession and repentance. We didn't say afterwards, you continue this truthful practice.

[16:23]

From now on and even after realizing Buddhahood will you continue this practice. And again, I mentioned the other day, why would a Buddha need to continue this practice? Why would a great advanced Buddha need to continue this practice? Because some slight, for bodhisattvas anyway, some slight lapse in mindfulness of intimacy could occur. Those who are really quite good at being mindful, they're the ones who notice the slight deviations, the slight lapses. Now, we who may be not so good at mindfulness, intimacy, when we hear about people who are more advanced, we might think,

[17:28]

Oh, they wouldn't have the lapses that I have." That's right, they wouldn't. But they have lapses which you haven't even noticed yet. They have lapses, really, really subtle ones. So we have gross ones, and we hear about other people who don't have those gross ones, but they have other more subtle ones, and more subtle, and more subtle, and more subtle. So it's just an endless practice. So we're trying to be mindful of the context of the practice, We're trying to be mindful of what we want to live. We want to live the way of Buddha. We want to live the way of going for refuge in the Triple Treasure. Yes, we do. And there's lapses, large and tiny, large and subtle.

[18:32]

So at the beginning of the ceremony tonight, they will do that. ...times if they will continue to do that, and I think they'll say yes. So far in all the more than 500 people who have given the precepts to, nobody ever said no. I won't... Today's enough. And at the end of the ceremony... the preceptor says, may you always be like this, the way you were today, where you said, yes, I will, yes, I will. May you always be like that. And if you're not, may you do confession and repentance, like you said you would. I want to mention again, and also, this is not again, we say the ten major bodhisattva precepts, but another way of saying it, which appears in the text, is ten major prohibitory precepts, or ten major precepts of restraint.

[20:05]

and restraint against what may be understood as pulling yourself back or reining yourself in. And that may be appropriate. In this particular interpretation, this interpretation that I'm offering and that Suzuki Roshi offered was influenced by other people before him who have taught that this precept of restraint, the restraint in this case doesn't mean to stop anything or oppose anything or try to control. It's not about controlling. It's not about controlling. It's not about getting anything or getting rid of anything. It's not that kind of restraint. is this amazing different new interpretation of restraint, which is the restraint of I together with all beings realize.

[21:19]

That's the restraint of these precepts. So, for example, the precept of not killing The restraining force there is the intimacy of I, together with all beings, realize I, together with all beings and the great earth, with the streams and the salmon, I, together with all beings and the great earth, realize the Buddha way. That's the restraint. That teaching is the kind of restraint that applies to not killing. I'm not trying to control myself. Here's me and the fish and the restraint of the precept of not killing. I together with all beings realize the Buddha way.

[22:25]

That's the restraint. It's the restraint of my intimacy with the fish. So I'm not trying to avoid the issue of restraint or prohibition, but the meaning of the restraint, the meaning of the prohibition is don't do things that aren't in accord with intimacy. Remember the intimacy. And with, again, just that applies to all the precepts. If there's a pizza on the table, not taking what's not given, the restraint there is, okay, I together with all beings realize the Buddha way. That's my relationship with the pizza. Anybody else here want that piece of pizza? Well, here, let me give it to you.

[23:27]

But if everybody says, no, it's for you, I say, really? No, it's not true. So I also wanted to tell you for your study of the bodhisattva precepts, for your study of zazen, one of the main very kind of not very long text. In English it's just two pages. It's a text which was often attributed to the ancestor, to the old Buddha, Ehi. But now, with some scholarly research, we understand that he didn't really write this text.

[24:41]

This text was written by his first disciple, Koun Eijo Daiyosho, who was the second abbot of Eiji, and really devoted student. that he wrote this, but the understanding is that he wrote this to kind of like summarize or epitomize his teacher's teaching on the bodhisattva precepts, and text out with his teacher. So it's written by Eijo, but it's Eijo's understanding with his teacher of his teacher's understanding of these bodhisattva precepts. Kyoji Gaimon. So if you want to receive this,

[25:44]

by email. We'll send this to you by email, this text, which is called Essay on... Actually, it's called the original Essay on Teaching and Conferring the Precepts. Is the text you have to say that, Sonia? Say again? Does it say Essay on Teaching and Conferring? Anyway, would you edit it? to say, essay on teaching and conferring the precepts. So that will be sent to you. And then you will have sort of the source text for what we call now the Zen precepts. So I'm offering, I'm focusing on offering Zen precepts. which is the bodhisattva precepts as interpreted by, particularly by Dogen Zenji and some of his successful students.

[27:01]

And in particular, a number of the students of Dogen from like the 17th and 18th century up till the present, including Suzuki Roshi. This interpretation of the Bodhisattva precepts is called Zen precepts. It's an interpretation in a particular school of Zen. It's not the same interpretation that many Mahayana Buddhists have of these precepts. It's not the same. It's the same precepts but different interpretation. I would say it has more emphasis on silence and more emphasis on not trying to get anything or get rid of anything. that mind which is not trying to get anything, or get rid of anything, or control anything, or oppose anything, that mind is a mind which is taught in many Indian Mahayana texts.

[28:19]

Like that. the teacher who many of you know, named Shantideva, he taught the precepts in great detail, and I feel like he taught with this mind. But some people seem to interpret these precepts as something you try to get and use to get rid of and control. And there is some merit in controlling insane sentient beings. So, you know, sometimes the people who are trying to control, it's kind of helpful. So I don't, what do you call it? I appreciate sometimes when the police restrain most people. And if possible, as gently as possible. But

[29:26]

Now we're making a special emphasis here, which is focusing on attaining the Buddha way together with everybody. These bodhisattva precepts that we use are coming from a sutra, this sutra, which is called Brahma's Net Sutra in English. in Sanskrit as majala. However, it probably never existed in Sanskrit. Scholars are telling us that probably this was written in China. And even if it is not a translation from Sanskrit, an Indian Mahayana text even if it's presented as Indian Mahayana Sutra, whatever, anyway, this text is where our version of the precepts comes from.

[30:33]

And the way the precepts are presented in this text, the way they're talked about, is not quite the same as the Zen precepts that I'm talking to you about. However, there's a great deal in this sutra about the precepts which is shared by our particular school. For example, as I said, in this sutra it does say that the precepts are the source of all the Buddhas. These Bodhisattva precepts are the origins of the Bodhisattvas. And it does say are Buddha-natured precepts, and their Buddha-natured precepts means they're for everybody. So that spirit is part of the so-called Zen precepts. These precepts are for everybody.

[31:35]

They're not just for men, They're not just for monks, they're not just for nuns, they're not just for laypeople. They're for everybody, because everybody has the nature of Buddha nature. And the sutra also says, ...being receives these precepts, they enter the same stature, the same status as a Buddha, which is the same as Great Enlightenment. And the ceremony we do tonight in Japanese is often called in this zaikei tokudo, which means lay tokudo, which means, tokudo means, I used to think it meant attaining the way.

[32:36]

Toku means like to attain, and do I thought meant the way. But actually it's not that character, that do, it's a different do. The do which means liberation. So this ceremony is a ceremony of lay people attaining... In this ceremony they will attain liberation. And things are said which, you know, people listen to them and they... Well, they might think, what? So, for example, after the ceremony of the priest, the preceptor says, you have now been freed of greed, hate, and delusion. Really? Wow. You're free. Now you're really a priest. Wow. So various statements are made like that during the ceremony, that this is just an amazing event for these people.

[33:54]

And bodhisattvas all over the universe are watching the ceremony just overjoyed that these people are receiving these precepts and commit to support these people's practice. This kind of thing happens supposedly during the ceremony. And so this perspective partly comes from this sutra and also comes from Dogen's Kyōjū Kaimon, Dogen's essay. And again, I say it's Dogen's, but it's really Dogen's teaching as given to us by his great successor. Now,

[34:58]

And the Code Kyoju Kaimon, the essay on teaching and conferring the precepts will be sent to you unless you ask not. And now this sutra also will be sent to you if you ask for it. So if you want to receive a digital copy of this sutra, you can send an email to Sonia and she'll send it to you. And if you want to have a paper copy, you can order it through the bookstore. So again, I've said and I'll say over and over, this spiritual communion idea between Buddhas and living beings, it is much more apparent and emphasized in Buddhism and in Japanese Buddhism.

[36:03]

I'm not so sure about Korean Buddhism, but to what extent it is there, or Vietnamese, But I also find it in Shantideva. He also says that when people have really stable and sublime faith, the Buddhas extend energy to them and guide them. And in that relationship, the thought of enlightenment grows. So there too, in the Mahayana text, this communion between Buddhas and sentient beings and the arising of the bodhi mind is mentioned. But I don't find it so often or so strongly emphasized in Indian Mahayana. And what I want to say is that I think these Bodhisattva precepts can be seen as the DNA, or maybe not even DNA, take away DNA, maybe that's too physical, but I would say they can be seen as the...

[37:17]

the genetic code of Buddhas. These Bodhisattva precepts are the genetic code of the Buddha's, of the Buddha's body and the Buddha mind. And then there are so many interpretations of this genetic code. It's good to be open to all of them and also It's good to question all of them. And I am blessed to be in conversations which question these precepts. It's a happy questioning. It's part of the living tradition, is to question the genetic code of Buddhists. Okay. Is there anything you'd like to bring up that's maybe enough to get started here?

[38:27]

Dan? When you say merit, what does that mean to you and what occurs with it? Another translation of merit... So what do I mean by goodness? Well, if you're into the Buddha way business, goodness is what promotes the Buddha way, what supports the Buddha way. So, what carries the Buddha way? What carries the bodhisattva way of meditation? What carries zazen? It's the vow to realize great awakening, the Dharma. That carries the Buddha away. And then merit is what supports that vow.

[39:33]

It would be good if that vow, from the perspective of the Buddha way, it would be good, it would be It'd be meritorious if that vow could be cared for, because that vow carries the Buddha away. Kat. Thank you. So, it being the Jukai ceremony tonight, and something that's come up for me is, I guess I'm concerned, you know, when receiving the precepts, about it reinforcing my delusions, and what helped me with that, how to navigate that. Did you say, you thought the ceremony might reinforce your delusion? Well, by receiving the precepts and practicing them, the concern is possibly going deeper into my own delusions.

[40:36]

Than you might otherwise? Yes. If you're spending your evening some other way? Yes. I think that's possible. But then how do you realize that? But going deeper into delusion, for me, going deeper into delusion doesn't just mean you get more deluded, it means you go deeper into it. So I think, in a way, receiving the precepts doesn't exactly make your delusion deeper. It helps you go deeper into your delusion, which may not be a very attractive thing. I guess it's up to the individual how to incorporate the precepts into their lives. But based off of their karma, They may incorporate it in such a way that they cannot see their delusions. Yes, that's possible. Or they may incorporate it in such a way that they become... What's the word? Irritating.

[41:41]

Insufferable. So it's possible you receive the precepts and then you walk around. Okay. That means poor. And then all your friends would say, get out of here. We don't want anything to do with those precepts if that's what receiving them means. That can happen. That can happen. Some people would seem okay if they received the precept, then we may discover they're not. Say that again. Some people might seem okay, but if they receive the precepts, that might help us realize they've got problems. Particularly in Zen Center, there's a history of some people who get permission to become priests.

[42:49]

After that time that they received permission, some problems they had, which nobody knew about, became apparent. So the process of leading and receiving precepts sometimes reveals and discloses some big problems. It's good. Yes, may I? I'm reminded of when Nakamura sensei heard that I was going to be a priest, what she said to me was, don't think you're going to be someone special now that you're a priest. Like other people might have said, oh, congratulations, you're a priest. And other people do say that. Congratulations, you're going to be special now. Or, you know, congratulations, we're going to think you're special. So other people might think you're special if you become ordained as a priest or even just receive the precepts.

[43:50]

Oh, you're special, you're like a holy person. That's their problem. But if you believe it, then you're deluded. You're deluded. These precepts are for ordinary people. However, ordinary people sometimes have trouble being ordinary. They want to be special or extraordinary. And again, they're walking around and they don't look like they... They think they're extraordinary. They keep it to themselves. And then when they receive the precepts, they let it out. So, it's not that it makes... The precepts will help us discover how deluded we are, how deep it is. Like Sawaki Kodoro, she said, the more you study, the more you realize how sneaky you are. So it's not so much you're going to get more deluded, it's that your delusions will be revealed.

[44:59]

If they're revealed, then we can reveal them. If they're revealed to me, then I have the opportunity to reveal it and disclose it to the Buddhas and say, I'm sorry. So if the precepts help reveal more of my delusion, I would say that's in accord the precepts. The delusion isn't in accord. The revelation is in accord. The delusion's veering off. Like, for example, the delusion. I can practice these precepts by myself. I received these precepts and other people didn't. Which you might not notice until you receive the precepts and go, wow, I got the precepts. Woo! And I am now, I've just become free of pre-hating delusion. Wow! And bodhisattvas are cheering me from all over the... Hey!

[45:59]

And then I could, you know, try to get that. So there is that, yes, there is that, but people who don't receive the precepts, it's there too, but the problem is they may not even know they have these sneaky delusions. Precepts help us get to know what an ordinary person is and be kind to it. And we start by being kind by acknowledging it and saying sorry and being generous and so on. Well, I'm happy to help if you're being insufferable. I'm happy to help you be aware of that, but I might not be able to let you know, because you have to want to. But I could say to you that you wanted me to let you know if you're being insufferable, and you might say,

[47:07]

So what? And I might say, Oh, just checking to see if you're remembered. And, you know, do you still want me to do that? Yeah, well, maybe. Why did you ask? It reminds me of a story, and I don't know how many people heard this story, so I'm going to ask you who heard this story. It's a story about someone at Tassajara serving, one of the servers, and I noticed how his feet were. How many people have heard that story? A lot. I won't tell it anyway. So this person was serving me many times, and I saw, you know, when you're, you can see the service feet sometimes, right?

[48:13]

I mean, I'm not looking, but I do see, for example, the color of nail polish. And I don't notice the color so much of people who aren't wearing nail polish. But anyway, I'm looking down when people come. I'm not looking straight in the server's eyes usually. I'm looking down. I see their feet. Your feet. I see your toes. Yes. In some cases, I see your socks, which these days have little messages on them. So this one particular person who served me kindly, many times, I noticed, I think, one foot was straight and the other one was off to the side. And it was always the same foot straight and the same foot off to the side.

[49:17]

If they were sometimes pigeon-toed, sometimes... But they're always the same way, different from each other. And I got kind of curious. I wonder if he does it on purpose, or if not, how could they wind up that way every time? It's kind of just wonder. So at one point I said, could I ask you a question? And I don't know what he said to that, like why or what for. But anyway, he did let me ask the question, and I said, I've noticed something, and I was just wondering about it. And I guess he said, okay. And I said, I noticed one foot was straight and one foot was out. And I just wondered if that was intentional. And he said something like, so what? Or whatever. And I said, just checking, I wondered if it was intentional.

[50:26]

I don't know if he said it was not intentional, I don't remember what he said, but he was irritated. that I asked him about his feet posture, foot posture. And then, you know, and I kept seeing his feet, and so the next time he served, both feet were straight. I wasn't trying to get him to straighten his feet, but now they were both straight. And then they just kept being that way forever. all the time I knew his feet. And he left Tassajara and went back to his hometown and so on. And there was a Zen center there and so on. He practiced there. And I heard from him, I heard indirectly from my friends that he said that question I gave him was the most important thing he learned at Tassajara.

[51:27]

So, Yeah. So I will, I will, if you're very insufferable, I will come and check out what you tell you that you are, because you might not want me to. We'll see. Also, please let me know if you feel like I'm being insufferable. But before you, don't just come up to me and say, you're being insufferable. Come up to me and say, may I check out something respectful before you indict me with insufferability? See, I think there was somebody before you, I think Gladys and then Tim, I'm curious about the fish. Yes. You mentioned a fish. Yes. What symbolizes that? Well, what I meant by fish was if you're out in a stream and there's salmon in it, what's your relationship with the salmon?

[52:39]

Do you put a hook in the water and try to catch the salmon? Do you bow to the salmon? I actually went fishing one time with a hook that was straight. In Minnesota, I went to the lake where I used to go fishing, but this time I went fishing with a straight hook. and put it in the water. But when I say straight hook, it was basically just a paperclip that I straightened out. And I put it on a string, on a pole, and I sat on a dock, a lake where I used to fish when I was a kid, and just fished like that for quite a while. What did you catch? I caught boredom. It was really a hard practice. Even though I was at a beautiful lake where I fished as a child, it's more boring just to sort of hold the thing and look at the water and look at the fish.

[53:48]

But I did do that. And I did it because I read a Zen story about this great Zen master who says, I fish with a straight hook. Did it have bait? Did it have bait? And I did not catch any fish. No fish were interested in this situation. And then the same applies when you go to the grocery store. What's your relationship with the fish that somebody else has caught? What's your relationship? Now, of course, you might be in the grocery store a really long time if you really consider what you're doing there. But generally speaking, people kick you out of the grocery store for being a really slow shopper. So you can consider, if you want to,

[54:49]

Shopping as a practice. That's what I was referring to. With fish in the water, and also with fish in the store. To be mindful. What's the relationship here? And Tim? This is a question that came up from the last class, and I've still been thinking about it. I'm trying to reconcile... Human agency or no human agency? It's not no. It could be human agency or no human agency. It's an agency. No human agency isn't exactly an agency. I'm talking about agency that's beyond human agency. ...is not human agency. And yet it involves us. It's free of our... No matter what we're doing, we have a relationship.

[55:51]

So let me try this out and see, kind of correct me where, correct my thinking where I may be... If you're asking me to correct you, thank you. I'm not signing up for that. Well, go ahead and say this and see what you say. So maybe like a phenomenal world perspective on practice and liberation is that we have We're acting based on our karma, and we're in bondage because of that. But if we practice, then we have an opportunity to act from liberation, rather than just having our karma propel us forward without practice. But that's like a phenomenal world way of thinking about it, a kind of dualistic way of thinking about it. But it seems to imply we have agency, we have free will, we can be the agent of saying, I am going to make an intention of practicing, and through that I won't be bonded by my karma, potentially.

[57:06]

But I'm trying to understand what it means to be… to not have human agency and yet not… It's not not having human agency. It's a type of activity which is, as you said, free of human agency, beyond human agency. It's not that there's no human agency, because if there was no human agency, there would be no human problems. It's a way of activity that is the center of all human activity. It's an activity. but it's not done by me or by you. However, it can act through us. It can use our mouth to talk. It isn't me, my karma, doing it. It's our relationship that's doing it.

[58:09]

It's not doing it, it's the activity of our relationship that's making a sound. and it's free of my karma and your karma. I'm getting stuck a little bit on maybe more Western views of God running the show, or predestination, like, I'm not an agent, there's something else in charge. So, for example, our relationship. It's not exactly our relationship. Our relationship includes both of us. It includes me, but it also includes something that's otherwise. But the otherwise is inseparable from me. And the otherwise, it isn't that the otherwise...

[59:14]

isn't control, it's just the otherwise offers the opportunity of something other than just my self-view and your self-view. In other words, that can be freedom, is the idea. Not because the otherwise is going to control it, because the otherwise is there all day long. The otherwise is always present with me and you. But by acting mindfully with the understanding that we're not just the way we think we are, we're open to this process of freedom which is present with us all the time. And then that freedom can act. As we said before, it's not fabricated, but it can talk. It can do verbal karma.

[60:18]

The Buddha can talk. The Buddha can raise her hand. But that's coming from an unfabricated place, a place of freedom. And we enter that place of freedom by being kind to our human karma. which we can see. Other people can help us see it better, and seeing it better gives us more opportunities to go deeper into human delusion. And when we open to it, and help each other open to it, and we mature, we can open to this activity. It is activity. We can use our posture, and our thinking, and our voice, our speech, And we can enjoy this expression, this meaning. We can enjoy it. We can see it functioning around, but we can't see where it comes from.

[61:23]

And it's not in control of us. It's just an activity that's appearing wonderfully in our life. I don't exactly understand it, but I have a sense of it. Yeah, and maybe you seem to be kind of... You're making these human gestures of kind of opening to it. Yeah, considering it. And questioning it doesn't mean you're not opening to it. This should be called into question, because what we're hearing now is words in our mind. So all this should be questioned, and we help each other deeply into our curiosity about what could this be? How could it be? Let's see. I see two people right here.

[62:27]

Cyprian and Amanda. Are there some people over here? In the dark. Who's over here? Okay. I see. So I'm just trying to aware them. Let's see. Shoho. Where's Shoho? Okay. All right. So, Ciprian? So, a long time ago, I met a young Hare Krishna. This was before I ever came to San Francisco, or until I ever thought about receiving a priesthood. And I asked him why he became a Hare Krishna, and he reminded me that they have these wonderful free ... and he really liked the food. And I thought, That's kind of interesting.

[63:29]

And it's relevant to my precept journey because what I really wanted was a rakasu. I wanted to make a rakasu and have a rakasu. I didn't exactly know why. It had a kind of a numinous quality about it. And in retrospect, I think the selling was a way... that I bound myself into the community so they could begin to work on me. Because even though I asked you to give me the precepts, I didn't know what I was asking for. And I'm only, all these years later, I feel like I'm only beginning to learn. But the act of making somehow, You know, it was like the rope that's thrown out of the lifeboat that you hold on to until you can get pulled in. So just to make it and to have it was really important.

[64:33]

Yeah. Could you hear him? Yes. Yeah, thank you. And I said before about how ironic this bodhisattva path is, right? I don't see a lot of nodding. Yes. What I mean is that he... and then he also kind of wanted the precepts? Well, that was the gate that I had to go through to get the precepts. You have to get the precepts in order to get the rocks in. You set my feet straight there too, because I said, I want the precepts. And you said, well, you know, you have to ask me. And the bottom just dropped out of everything. And I thought, oh, that means he could say no. And I had to sit with that spinning bottomless thing for a moment until I could say,

[65:35]

will you give me the precepts? And he immediately said, yes. Again, a foot-straining story that had profound implications. And so, Ciprian and other people aspire to receive the Bodhisattva precepts, and they know, they know, I haven't received them, so they ask, may I receive them? And so they know that they want them and don't have them yet, but they may or may not know that they don't know really what they are. So a mature person can want something, can they know they don't have it yet, or they can want to be something, and they know they haven't yet become that, but a child can know that too. But what children don't usually understand is that they want to be a mother or a father, but they don't usually understand that they don't know what they're wanting.

[66:45]

A mature person wants the bodhisattva precept sometimes, wants to be a Buddha, wants to be a bodhisattva, but they know, and they don't know really what that is. But I still want it. That's the practice. We want to be a bodhisattva, don't really know what it is, and we still want to. It's not like, I want to be a bodhisattva, and now you've told me some things, so now I realize I don't know what it is, so I don't want to be a bodhisattva anymore. So all the time I go over and over, I want to be a bodhisattva, but I don't know how to learn that. And then, again, I want to be, but I don't know. I don't want to be, and I don't know. And all the teachers say, well, here's this great teaching, and I don't know what a bodhisattva is either, really. And I know something, but... Okay. Amanda. Yes, I guess I'm thinking about my wishes to be upright.

[67:51]

I think I struggled early on, and I'm still struggling with restraint and noticing my gains towards greed and possession. And I guess in this discussion and conversation, what was coming up is like the realization of dependency, like the way that I want to be restrained was in a manner that I heard about like being totally restrained is not being restrained at all type of idea. I guess what's coming up for now is like this constant, uh, contemplation of dependency. So I'm, I'm imagining, I'm imagining, uh, being with the fish and I'm imagining the moment realizing my vulnerability to the fish, like my independence on the fish.

[69:08]

And, um, Like every moment, the way that we are totally... It supports restraint. Pardon? It seems to support... It supports restraint, yeah. It's like a vein of gold that supports restraint without trying to oppose anything or control yourself. It supports restraint. It makes restraint a or the great joy. Whoopee! Whoopee! Restraint. I'm like restraint. In other words, this realizing the way together with everybody. That's the great restraint. The great escape and the great restraint. Thank you.

[70:12]

And then there was Carolina. I'm hearing, and what I've been wondering about is that, do you think that faith helps you to practice? Say it again. Do you think that faith helps you to practice? And if so, what about doubt? Does doubt also help? What do you mean by doubt? Well... I doubt sometimes that I can completely do the meal boards when I run as a server. And that it happens, and I'm surprised that it happens. Or I doubt that I can attain the real way. That's pretty helpful. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't doubt the faith. That just doubts whether you'll be able... In this case, it just doubts whether you're going to be able to fulfill your faith or whether you are fulfilling your faith.

[71:19]

More like questioning or curiosity about meal board wiping. That doubt is necessary for a really lively faith. Faith needs to be called into question. do its great work. It can guide us better when we question the guide. Yeah. The guide works better when you say, can I ask you a question, guide? And the guide says, in this case, the body guide should say, yes, please, help me. Thank you. Shoho and Anika and Drew and Mia When I hear you talk about us aligning and not aligning, and there's a way of being upright and not upright, at one time I said dualism.

[72:31]

By the way, you hear me talking about aligning and not aligning? I was talking about when you see that you're not in alignment. I'm not saying you're not. It's when you think you're not aligned. I'm not saying you're not aligned. When you think you aren't, I'm talking about that. I'm not saying. You see the difference? I'm not saying you're aligned, you're not aligned. I'm saying when you think you're not aligned, it's for you. And I'm not calling you dualistic when you think that way. But you can call yourself that. And when you call yourself that, there's a practice for you. And how do you recommend for us Bodhisattvas to aspire to manifest in all possible ways? How do you help us understand to manifest in all possible ways? You're asking me how to manifest in all possible ways?

[73:32]

Like this. [...] That's all. If you're looking for some other way, you're going to limit all possible ways. You skip over this, you close the door on that. This, attaining the way with all beings and the greater this, that's restraining yourself to this together with all beings, and nothing else but you and all beings. That creates the possibility for all possible manifestations. Anika, was it Anika and then Maya? No, Drew dropped out.

[74:33]

He was just a messenger. He was the Maya messenger. I guess there are a few different threads that I'd like to try to pull together and ask for your comment. This morning I was thinking about not taking what is not given. I was wondering about that. as someone who's been a farmer and is really interested in food. I mean, I'm interested in relating to the earth in all ways and relating to beings in all ways, but maybe particularly in regard to food sometimes. So with the fish and...

[75:35]

grocery store and being a good disciple of the way and the way that the world actually is like so being at the grocery store even if none of that food was once an animal even like even if it's a plant it could have been extracted from the earth in such a violent way without asking, without getting consent. So I'm wondering what your comment is on that, on being a good disciple of the way food is extracted from the earth violently. So what do you do? Yeah, so you just set it up, and then let's see what... There you are.

[76:45]

And, you know, what are you going to do now? And if you're a grocery store, there you are. In that situation, we'll watch to see. Hopefully you'll be mindful of what you do. And you may feel... ...is in accord with the way. And then I'm saying, and maybe you agree with me, that if you feel that what you're doing is in accord with the way, then it would be good if you're open to be called into question. Right? So somebody else, which is somewhat unlikely, but if you're there with some other Buddha's disciples, they might say to you, Anika, can I ask you a question about what you just took off the shelf? And you might say, yes, please. I want to practice the way here. I'm so wonderful that my practice... How wonderful you're curious about how I shop. Like, wouldn't you like to go shopping with Suzuki Roshi?

[77:50]

See how he shops? That'd be fun. Hey, Roshi, how come you picked that? Maybe he could tell you. But... You're a disciple of Roshi in the grocery store and you're trying to act in accord with that and so you take that package and you look at it and maybe you read the ingredients and you say, okay, I think I'm maybe going to purchase And then your friend comes over and says, can I ask you a question? And you say, yes, let's figure out, let's do this, let's do this practice thing. And your friend asks you a question, and you say, okay, and then you keep, maybe you continue on the path of purchasing it, or you might put it back on the shelf. There's a question in the dialogue. The relationship might make you feel like, I thought it was okay, it's not. And even later, you may call yourself into question and feel like, oh, I wasn't careful, I shouldn't have bought that.

[78:57]

That was... I'm mindful I bought that. I'm sorry. And I bought a lot of stuff that I'm sorry I bought. We all have, probably, many times. We've done things. So let's see, can we remember to... fish with a straight hook in the grocery store. And maybe it gets pretty boring to be in a grocery store that way. And maybe it's very hard to actually get much stuff if we're really, like, looking at it. And it could happen that we get, it's really hard, maybe, to be that mindful and actually come away with some food. Yes. Nadia. Isn't maya the form of... Pardon?

[79:59]

Thank you. Mayna. I think you said that merit occurs in the spiritual communion between sentient beings and buddhas. The merit of an action. The merit of the action. There's not really merit just in the communion. But then if we do some karma, like I take refuge in Buddha, the merit of that karma arises in that communion. Yes. So merit... Is that to say that merit doesn't arise from our own actions? Thank you. Thank you. Did you hear the distinction? If you do something skillfully, it has meritorious consequences. But there's another merit that's not because of your skill, but because of the communion.

[81:08]

That's another merit. And that merit is the merit that directly The other merit can turn into a pitfall. You can cling to it, but you can't cling to the merit that's created by the communion. But we can't create that communion. No, we cannot. However, we can allow it, and we can be mindful of the possibility, and we can also say, which some people do honestly, That's too much for me. I'm not ready for that. But it's already there. It's like we can allow it. We can open to it. It's already here. And we can also open... The merit of our own personal actions. Our own personal actions do have merit and demerit, and also many of our personal actions, it's not clear whether they have merit or not merit.

[82:11]

Even the Buddha, looking at us, would say, I'm not clear whether that... Like, if you just look at the blue sky and see it's blue, that isn't particularly meritorious. But you did do that. I'm not complaining, but the kitchen's leaving ten seconds early. That's a very important distinction. Our personal action does have merit, does have goodness, or not, but this communion kind of merit, which liberates us from karma. Naughty. Yes. It seems to me that I keep hearing the word control. Yes. And that maybe it is adequate to restraint in the way you use it?

[83:16]

No, what I mean is that the restraint is not trying to control. But people do sometimes try to control, and that can be human karma. I try to control, and that can be good or it can be harmful. And yet, I feel like the work is so strong, especially in the Western world, where it might be understood as taking over. And I'm wondering if we could use what's the content, what's in restraint for you, apart from people? Can we add or have another word to, I wouldn't say soften, but not misdirect people that might think of control as not an open thing, but rather a closed thing?

[84:17]

I think actually soften is… Find a way to soften the word restraint, so that it's gentle. The Buddha is, you know, soft and the Buddha is powerful. The Buddha is gentle and the Buddha is powerful. So it's this restraint of attaining the thing, but it's also a soft thing. It opens up possibilities. It's not trying to get things to go the way the human being wants them to. But there are sometimes, again, people do do things that are controlling, that are good. I mean, they produce good for people, and then people try to be harmful. But the controlling might be, even in the good, there's still some clinging. This restraint of these precepts is not clinging. It's creating more possibilities, and it's a restraint that's completely gentle and respectful of everybody that's involved.

[85:22]

So could we use the word like surrender or restraint? Surrender would be part of it. Actually, attaining the Buddha way involves an element of surrender. Surrender controls. Even the people who are trying to control sometimes do it skillfully and sometimes not. But they're not really in control. That's an illusion. But still, they're trying to control and it's kind of helpful sometimes and fun sometimes. Yes, but sometimes trying to control is just the most terrible thing. It really harms, it really can be super harmful. We can be trying to control someone we really love and really hurt them. It's possible. We don't want to let go of that. Yes, Audrey? Can you talk a little bit more about when you say so quickly after something, there's hardly a breath in between the demerit, I'm sorry.

[86:37]

In other words, it's not a good idea and you're talking about it and there's no breath in between right away after it comes, I'm sorry. It seems... Like it's so easily there. And you reflect on it. I'm sorry. It could easily not be sincere, that's right, if it's right away. But it could also be very sincere right away. However, even though it might be really sincere, if it really is sincere right away, it would be open to being questioned. Because I'm just saying I'm sorry. So if I say I'm sorry and not open to questions, it doesn't sound like a very sincere sorry. But you could say right away, and then someone could say, I have a question for you, and you say, okay, well, I'm Mr. Sorry.

[87:44]

Go ahead. I might be sorry again. So yeah, it is good to notice as soon as possible that we feel we're out of accord. And it looks like that to me. And then you can say, I have a question for you about that. And this time I'm not going to be sorry. I'm going to say, yes, I'm here for that question. Which shows maybe that my being sorry was sincere. If my sorry isn't open to question, I don't think it's not fully sincere yet. And sometimes people do, you know, they do something to somebody they love, and they get the feedback that that was really bad for that person. And then they say they're sorry, and the other person doesn't really say, you know, you're not sincere.

[88:47]

They just look like they're still having a problem, and the person says it again, and the person still looks like they're having a problem, and they say it again. And maybe after repeating it enough times, ways of saying it, they feel, excuse the expression, forgiven. with many attempts at, I'm sorry, they kind of get in, hit the groove, and the other person feels like, okay, yeah, I think we got that place. And the timing of the repetitions, is that like in accord with the, you know, Well, I, it's, we're a little over, but maybe, should we stop or should we have one more question?

[89:48]

One more. One more. We'll say one more. Now there's two. We'll have one more. Will you give up your question to somebody else? Will you give up your question to somebody else? Okay, till mom. And my question was, you mentioned, for example, with the shop, if there's someone else there who's then we can question you. So it seems to me I don't have too many Buddhists around while talking about locations where it might be important to check on the concepts and on the intimacy. How I can practice this kind of... Yeah, I think that's a good wondering.

[90:54]

I went into, what's it called? What do they call that wonderful store? It's called Berkeley Bowl, right? Berkeley Bowl. I went into Berkeley Bowl one time, and there was a Zen student there, and when she saw me she said, Are you okay? What are you doing in here? Amen. [...]

[91:39]

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