This is the story, here is the story which occurs in the Sutra of Perfect Wisdom. One day, Shakyamuni Buddha described the meaning of the panyaparamita. In his last talk he asked Shakra, who is one of the protectors

[01:08]

of Buddhism, who is said to live at the top of the Mount Smell in the universe. The Mount Smell is a certain viewpoint in the world, in India. The Shakra lives at the top of Mount Smell. Shakyamuni Buddha asked the Shakra to maintain the principle of emptiness, principle of panyaparamita,

[02:13]

wisdom, perfect wisdom, listening, making every possible effort to listen to the principle of panyaparamita, thinking of it according to the Buddha's instructions, and to teach others to describe what panyaparamita is. This is the matter which Shakyamuni Buddha asked the Shakra to do something after the Shakyamuni Buddha spoke. The Shakra at that time, anyway, took the answer, yes sir, I will.

[03:32]

But he has some doubt. Of course it's not so easy to understand what the panyaparamita is, perfect wisdom is. The important point is how to describe what wisdom, perfect wisdom is to others. As a matter of fact, he doesn't know and understand the way of describing, the way of teaching it to others. Then he asked Shakyamuni Buddha, yes of course I will make every possible effort to teach, to describe it to everybody.

[04:47]

But with your compassionate feeling, please give me some instruction how to maintain the panyaparamita, panyaparamita or perfect wisdom. And how to teach it to others. Then at that time in the sutra of panyaparamita, the Shakyamuni Buddha doesn't answer to this question. And instead of Shakyamuni Buddha, a suburi suddenly makes appearance in front of Shastra, Shakra.

[06:02]

The suburi is a person who is one of the greatest disciples, who is conversant with the complete understanding of sunyata, emptiness, perfect wisdom. Then the sutra makes the suburi describe, taking answer to this, to Shakra's question.

[07:10]

Instead of Shakyamuni Buddha. Then suburi said, well, the Shakra, it seems to me that you are entirely concerned about the maintenance of perfect wisdom, and teaching the perfect wisdom to others. In other words, the way of teaching, the way of maintaining. The suburi said, well, Shakra, do you think there is a certain way of maintaining the perfect wisdom?

[08:22]

And teaching it towards others. In other words, do you find, are you, do you find, or can you find a way, a way of maintaining perfect wisdom, or teaching the perfect wisdom to others? The moment when the suburi asked the Shakra in that way, the Shakra comes to himself with a start. And then he said, oh, no, no, no, there is no way, there is no way to, there is no certain, there is no way of maintaining the perfect wisdom and teaching it to others.

[09:31]

See, this is a very important point, you know, there is no way. The Shakra came to account to himself suddenly with a start. Soon as when he was asked by suburi, can you find a certain way of teaching or maintenance? Let's look at, look over, look over your past life anyway. The way you look over your past life, of course, so far you have experienced, you have had a great education.

[10:42]

You have brought up by the great knowledge of your parents. You brought up, you are brought, you have brought up at the great circumstances a situation of your parents, a peaceful world, a great education. Even though you don't think your circumstances, the circumstances which you have been brought up is not so good, your parents made every possible effort to create the circumstances around you much better, in better condition day in day out. Then he said, your parents hopes, please, you will be an adult who will live your life in peace.

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In society, one way or another, in peace, in harmony. So from this point, from this point of the parents, or your brothers and sisters, the compassion, at least your life is protected, your life is protected by parents' compassion. Then you think, yes, my life, I have been alive up to now, since I was born, since my birth. Protecting, being protected by my parents, being protected by a certain system of education, your friends, your brothers, your sisters, your teachers, all sentient beings, and so on.

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If you think, if you think how your life has been coming up to now, has been going on up to now, you said such and such and such. My life has been protected by parents' education. Then you said, my life consists in a certain type of self, the self of its trappings. Moral, philosophical, or psychological, or educational, or spiritual.

[14:44]

So, what it put on itself from your birth up to now. But on the other hand, there is something, some problem, which evades all of your attempt at solution, when you are confronted with some doubt. For instance, in my case, sometimes I ask to myself, why, why do you sit in meditation, why did you become a priest? I can't say something, I can't say something such and such, why, reason, motivation, I ask you why, why do you start to meditation, you said such and such.

[16:02]

But sometimes, I don't understand, when reduced to essentials, why, why did you start to practice Zazen, I don't know. Someone says to me, always, I don't know why. You know, there is a famous Zen master named Setsuo, who was one of the disciples, one of the Vassal Zen master's disciples. His motivation to become a priest was very strange. He used to be a hunter.

[17:04]

One day, he hunted up deer in the mountains, chasing out deer running escape, running away. Setsuo chased out the deer. Then, at last, he came to the Vassal Zen master's hermitage, hut, in the mountains. Then, Vassal Zenji, how about becoming Zen priest? So, after all, he became Zen priest. But, before he became Zen priest, he didn't, he hadn't, he hadn't, he hadn't thought, I want to become priest, he didn't. But, something, something compelled him, compelled him to become priest.

[18:08]

Then, I asked, if I asked the Setsuo Zen master, why did you become Zen priest, I don't understand. He became Zen priest. He didn't have a certain, a fixed purpose of becoming priest. Among your friends, I think, there is, there is a student who become a priest. At that time, he came, he came across a horse without any purpose. Riding on a bike. Seeking for something pleasure, for pleasure, the pleasure. Seeking for, you know, some fun.

[19:10]

Let's go, let's go to Sahara. Maybe he didn't know that Sahara is situated here. Where is Sahara? Maybe he didn't know. Anyway, he ride on, he enjoyed himself riding on a bicycle, motorbike, motorbike. With his girlfriend. And then, the place where he came to was Tathagata. And someone asked him about staying here, about staying here, and help out. Well, okay. And he helped the Tathagata to create something, and at last he became priest. But he didn't have a certain purpose. The purpose of what he thought, he thought was to seek for some enjoyment, some please, something, something fun.

[20:26]

That's all. Yesterday I mentioned in the opening ceremony of the kitchen, in the first verse I said a building of precious, precious substances has now been completed with, through the wasteful mind. One calls it kudo, or queen, or kitchen, where he offers Buddha's mind with Buddha's mind. In the second verse I said, the upsurge of the wasteful mind vibrates every inch of the world, earth,

[21:34]

which the burst open to every side, on every side. From within the crifts arise many thousands, many hundred thousands bodhisattvas, coming to help the Buddha's world of Tathagata with delight. But the person who became priest without his own fixed ideas, came to Tathagata and stayed, and helped Tathagata. And gradually his good result has come to the fore. Even since staying in Tathagata with Bodhisattvas,

[22:50]

selling zazen, chanting sutra, that good result is the wasteful mind. That's why he can, he can stay in Tathagata, selling zazen with us, helping something with delight. And then, one day, Sunday, he went to San Francisco, he went to his native country, and talked how wonderful Tathagata is. His friend asked him, what you are doing in Tathagata? Well, doing zazen every day, see that we make every possible effort to follow the city rules. Well, his friend thought, well, that's a little bit interesting.

[24:04]

Is it possible to join your activities? Can anybody join your activities? He said, oh, yes, come once. To do zazen even once, that's okay. Then he came, he comes to Tathagata, meditation, oh, zazen is pretty good. Then he went back, he went back to his native country, and talked about what happened in Tathagata. He explained his experience, and then his friend also, becoming interested in his experience through zazen. Then he comes, many people come and go, come and go. What makes them, what makes them come,

[25:15]

what makes them come and go, and to help, to join our activities. Then he said, the absurdity of the way-seeking mind, it vibrates the every inch of the earth, it vibrates anyway, you don't have special ideas, well, hey, listen to me, listen to my experience, how great it is. You don't think something. When you want to ask five friends, what did you experience in Tathagata, well, that's all. That's all. Without special pride yourself, without being special pride yourself, upon your experience,

[26:16]

you just experience, you just describe, and then your friend is is motivated by something, I don't know what it is, maybe Buddha says it is the way-seeking mind, or religious awakening. When you say a pure spirit or pure mind, pure mind. So I said pure mind awakening, religious awakening, vibrates every inch of human body and mind, or the earth, and makes them come to Tathagata, or joins us and helps us.

[27:19]

That's all, there is no special ideas. When reduced to essentials, that's all. Then I said, from within the craft, arise many thousand bodhisattvas, all of you and your friends, come to Tathagata to join, to help their tasks, are completely bodhisattvas. That's why we can, we can realize, we can realize that there is

[28:22]

a building of precious, precious, you know, a substance, which is called kitten, which is called queen in Japanese, where he offers, where you offers Buddha's mind with Buddha's mind. Try to ask to yourself, how did you, how did you build, how did you complete this building? Sometimes in terms of financial situation, did you have enough money? I don't think so. Zen center is very poor, then Zen center always ask you please pay your money if you want to come to Tathagata. The result what the building of precious substance has now been completed

[29:24]

through the way-seeking mind, is something beyond financial situation, or something beyond some ideas, poor or rich. Then I said, in the third verse, what a beautiful, time for rightness it is. What this building has now been completed is really time for rightness. Being supported by bodhisattvas coming from every inch of earth, United States, not only United States,

[30:26]

Canada, England, Japan, all over the world. This teaching is such a result, being supported by the way-seeking mind, bodhisattvas, from every inch of the earth. Then I said, how beautiful, what a beautiful time for rightness it is. At that time I said, is there anything, is there anyone, a man or divine being, who he refused to salute the feet of bodhisattvas

[31:31]

on the auspicious celebration today. What do you think this result, what do you think this result, which we have completed this building of precious substances, where you offered the Buddha's mind with Buddha's mind. How can you explain that? You can salute the feet of bodhisattvas just in terms of financial situation, in terms of just the human's effort? I don't think so. There are many things beyond, more than financial situation, human effort. Then as Tsuguri asked,

[32:40]

Master Sakura, can you find a certain way of maintaining, maintaining perfect wisdom, paniparamita sutra, of teaching the aid to others? He comes to himself with that. What? No, no. There is no way. Yes, completely there is no way. How to maintain wisdom? How to maintain perfect wisdom? He said, I said always, the other day, I described the meaning

[33:44]

as Dogen Zen says, let the breath come and go, let the breath come and go as it goes, short or long. We call such a state of attitude, honing, to maintain, honing, what means to maintain, nying is complete, completeness, completion, or repletion, or fullness. So to maintain something is to be repeated with. To, to maintain something is that you are full up with, the,

[34:49]

with the completion, with the repletion, with the fullness. More considerate attention, generous, detailed attention, I said this is the meaning of honing. This is meaning of let the breath going and coming, go and coming, go and come, as it goes. So you pay attention to your breath, in Zazen, with wholeheartedness, but you say, you ask always, how to, how to take care, how to deal, how to handle, how to handle, the improper way, my breath, in Zazen.

[35:54]

You always ask. And in Zazen, during the Zazen, at least you make every possible effort to regulate your breath, according to the instructions. But nevertheless you don't understand, at least something you don't understand. What is the proper way of breathing? That's why you ask, why? How to regulate the breath? Well, I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know either. What, what can I say, what I can say is, let's practice. Then find what the proper way of regulating the breath, through your Zazen, that's all. If I, if I miss it, it's all right.

[37:03]

So, I think, in this respect, the, our lives, going on, not only in the manuals, trappings, moral, psychology, psychological, or philosophical, or spiritual, which is put on itself, but also, our life, is going on, in the manuals, something more than trappings, moral, psychology, philosophical, economical, you know, physiological, or sanitary.

[38:09]

If you open your mouth, open your eyes, your breath, when reduced to the essential, there is something more than, more than trappings, more than the self of all its trappings, the moral, psychological, philosophical, and spiritual. And then, it exists now. Then, Katagiri exists now, as a priest. Then you ask, you look at me, why did you become a priest? Well, well, that's all. Well, it's pretty difficult to point out why. Well, sometimes I say I ate the ink, the stick, in my childhood. Maybe it's reason,

[39:17]

why, maybe it's reason, make me, make me become priest. But what make me, what make me eat the ink and stick? Well, I don't understand why. My brother believes, that eating the ink and stick makes you become saintly. Maybe? I said, oh yes, I think so, you know. But actually, after strictly speaking, I don't understand. Why? I don't understand what make me eat ink and stick. When someone says, oh, you ate the ink and stick, in terms of physiological situation, yes, in fact, maybe, but something more than that. I believe so. Yes.

[40:22]

The other day, as I said, taking the, the story of bird and egg as a powerful, because it is the best example, powerful to understand the relation between bird and her egg. The mother always keep her egg warm. That's all, that's all, that's all what the mother do it. Mother ought to do. And then, the eggs inside, something inside of the egg, just wait for the time, for likeness to be born

[41:22]

in this world. With some effort. But he has to, what he ought to take the responsibility for himself, for his task, for his own business, inside of the egg. It has seemingly nothing to do with the mother's business, bird's business. Mother's business is mother's business. Inside, something inside of the egg is the business of the baby. Baby's business is baby's business. But there is something more than you know,

[42:23]

the business which each of them handle it. I can't explain. Maybe in terms of certain idea, you can explain what the relation between, what is the relation between two. But strictly speaking, after all, you come to find, you come to find no way of taking answer to this question,

[43:24]

why baby born, why mother keep her egg warm? Why? There is completely no way of responding to this why, question why. The beyond the certain trappings in way as mentioned very often moral or psychology, psychological or spiritual, the bird exists, the mother exists and something happens. At the level of

[44:30]

more than, something more than the trappings as I mentioned, there are many things, there exist many things, visible and invisible, in peace, in harmony, without fear, without pleasure, without special idea, without any attachment. But when something that makes up appearance in front of you in some form as a ghost, something makes you see it in terms of certain trappings, psychological or philosophical or moral

[45:31]

or spiritual, in that time it's ghost. Then you said ghost exists. Then you were fear, you have fear. But then again and again I ask you are you sure that something something like ghost exists? Are you sure? Nobody knows. Well, I don't know. There is no answer. Sometimes no answer makes you makes you curious towards something. It is said in Japan that there was the first person who found the presence of a ghost. He was a painter.

[46:34]

He was a great painter in Japan named Maruyama Okyo. He found the presence of ghost. Then he painted immediately. But it is not real ghost. It is said a lady who had been in bed for long and tried to go to the bathroom. That time a shadow appears in the screen. This lady wore the long hair like this. She was completely weak. Then she walked she walked I think so

[47:35]

like this. She lost completely her energy. She walked whatever she wanted to do. She lost completely energy. Then Maruyama Okyo this painter found some shadow. Then he painted. It is said that there was the first presence of ghost in this world. I don't know if it is true or not. In terms of artistic viewpoint in terms of trappings artistic artist or spiritual at least something happens ghost feeling on the canvas. But before that

[48:38]

before painting on the canvas wherever wherever she may be ghost were wherever there. The ghost or man or woman man or woman child or baby a tree a speck of dust all sentient beings exist at the same level. All harmony and peace. As soon as when you take something as special in terms of trappings moral or spiritual then something happens and the documentary story

[49:39]

and the painting and the film. That's all. Then the spuri said can you find a special way of maintaining? Can you find a special way a particular way of regulating breath? Can you? You say oh yes. Dogen then says neither long nor short neither puffing and panting nor making noise in breath. He says oh I understand. Then you try to regulate your breath. But the distance in doubt which you understand what's the proper way of regulating

[50:40]

then you ask what's the proper way of regulating the breath? Strictly speaking you cannot help finding the no place no way of maintaining regulating breath maintaining panoparameter positive wisdom maintaining the presence of bird presence of the inside of the egg as a mother maintaining the presence of mother. Strictly speaking there is no way of regulating the breath. And then question is what should I do? Then then the guru said chakra

[51:42]

if you make your abode if you make make your abode in the profound realm of prajnaparamita mentioned by the Buddha you can assuredly preserve preserve it. The important point is to make your abode in the profound realm of prajnaparamita mentioned by the Buddha to make the abode is not is not something what you what you are in the house it's really different from this. In this case

[52:45]

to make abode to make your abode in the profound realm of prajnaparamita the perfect wisdom is to settle on yourself anyway without being apart from your abode yourself being apart from prajnaparamita without being apart from prajnaparamita without going away from prajnaparamita Universe if you want to understand completely you have to make your abode in the profound realm of prajnaparamita the realm of

[53:46]

the the bird and baby bird unborn baby bird and mother's bird without being apart from the presence of mother without being apart from the presence of baby bird unborn baby bird without going away from them what should I do? what should you do? well there is no answer no way of no proper way of answer to this question well how do you take care of your baby? how do you try to ask the mother's bird how do you take care of your baby? well strictly speaking she said well baby's here well anyway I

[54:47]

keep my baby in one way or another anyway so that's all but as soon as when you see the mother the presence of mother and the baby's bird in terms of talking some talking spiritual philosophical psychological physiological you said oh well yes I can I can maintain my bird in terms of such such but the present great reality of the presence of baby bird and presence of mother's bird is something more than such a trophy then you said

[55:48]

well I am here so to it means it means to make your bird in profound realm of progeny parameter mother's mother's bird and baby's baby's without being without being separate from mother the presence of mother and the presence of baby bird and then both is exist [...] then the Buddha said chakra if you make your bird in the profound realm of progeny parameter mentioned by the Buddha you can assured assuredly

[56:48]

preserve it at that time you can preserve the presence of mother's bird and the presence of baby's bird if I can't see myself in terms of certain trappings English language or the capability capability of my Buddhist knowledge I said oh I am not so good I feel I feel I may not may not preserve to be called the priest even though I was I am in the Zen center I am in the Tathagata I feel always I may not

[57:48]

I may not deserve to be called priest to be called such a name I don't like I don't like great patients I don't like whatever whatever I am in terms of no matter what idea I can't see myself anyway as long as I exist now here I have something should be done should be done something should be done in the profound realm of Paniparamita without being separating from myself well I

[58:49]

am sorry for you I have to do something not in Japanese in English sorry for you you are always listening to my letters in poor English I am sorry for Katage I have to be always great patients that's okay anyway something should be done right now right here right now right here is to make my abort firmly steadily with whole heartedness in the profound realm of myself without simply separating from myself without separating

[59:50]

from yourself as a listener as a student without separating Kata without separating Zen Sena in San Francisco without separating of any kind of circumstances around me and then at that time when I understand this point then what is the answer well I am doing something now that's all there is no amount of discussion discussion who is speaking who is speaking Katagiri or who is listening to my lecture or Paul or Mike or Neil or Peter I don't

[60:50]

think so at that time I can't preserve I can't preserve myself I can't preserve myself I can't preserve your self you as a listener I can't preserve me I as a speaker. Right now, right here. I can't reserve, I can't preserve the profound relation between I and you. In the realm of, profound realm of something more than tropics. Moral, psychological, philosophical, spiritual. This is to preserve, this is honing. To maintain, to preserve with perfection. With perfection, with considerate attention, with detailed attention, with force, with mindful attention.

[62:11]

Which means there is no amount of discussion for a listener, for a speaker. Then, Suguri said, if you can settle in prajnaparamita without receding from it, in accordance with the Buddha's teachings. Without receding from it. Without being apart from yourself, myself, yourself as a listener, me as a speaker. Then I make, I make my abode. That time, I am some person when something should be done.

[63:30]

Right now, right here. When something is going on. Beyond certain idea of tropics. That's why Suguri said, if you can settle in the prajnaparamita without receding from it, in accordance with Buddha's teachings, Then I assure you that no one, man, no one, man or divine being, could succeed in disturbing your achievement. You know, so that's why I mention always, even though you don't understand what the proper way of regulating your breath. Try to, try to regulate your breath with wholeheartedness.

[64:35]

I mentioned in opening ceremony, as a fourth verse, he said, a blade of grass and a peck of dust, even a peck of dust are truthfully hung with wholeheartedness. When they, when they rise, lie in the realization of Buddha land and speaking, speaking of Buddha's teachings. So I mention always, you don't, you don't care whether your practice of regulating breath is good or bad. At the level of now and here. Don't worry about, try to concentrate on regulating breath with wholeheartedness.

[65:38]

Beyond some trappings, you know, it is good, it is bad, trappings, spiritual or psychological, it doesn't matter. Important point is to make your board in profound realm of regulating breath without being separate, separating from yourself breathing. Then what should you do? Just do it. At that time, no one, man or divine being could succeed in disturbing your achievement. Any kind of trappings, you say, oh this is good or this is bad, no trappings, no trappings which you put on yourself, you have put on yourself, could succeed in disturbing your achievement.

[66:54]

This is to maintain, to maintain with wholeheartedness your breath, yourself. This is the self, this is the self, consist in the self of, consist, consist in, in emptying, emptying, emptying the self of, of, it's all trappings I said to always small, psychological, such and such, educational, such and such, stripping such a self. You know if, that pity, we are, we find very often that petty noise, petty practice make you appreciative, appreciative.

[68:11]

A-P-P-I-S-S-S-H. A-P-P-I-S-S-S-H. Oh, A-P-P-I-S-S-S-H. A certain Zen Master attained enlightenment and he is Zen Master after practicing of many years, after that he went to, he went to the depths of the mountain, he lived alone in his hamlet, in his hamlet. For a while he went back to his temple to eat breakfast and dinners with all monks. But suddenly he stopped, he stopped coming back to the temple. Then his master was worried and concerned about him, what he was doing without coming back to the temple.

[69:15]

So he sent one of his disciples to see what he was doing. He went to see him and asked, why did you, why didn't you come back to the temple to eat with us? He said, oh, it's not necessary to come back to your temple, to my temple, because heavenly being brings food day in and day out. Then his disciple came back to the Zen Master's temple and explained what he said. Zen Master was very angry with him, he went to the hamlet, to his hamlet, to the disciple's hamlet and scolded him, stupid, and burned the hamlet. Pity knowledge, or when you have a pity knowledge, it makes always too much noise, too much noise.

[70:24]

I attend the enlightenment, I attend the enlightenment, doesn't matter. You pride yourself upon your Zen practice. It means to leave, to leave an opening to rule and appoint. For instance, in the case of this Zen Master, he left an opening to rule, to tempt the heavenly beings to bring some food. That's why he said, oh well, because my practice is great. My practice deserves to accept the food from the heavenly beings. Not something wrong with the heavenly beings, not something wrong with his practice itself.

[71:38]

A problem is that you create something to make you leave, make you lay yourself upon to attack. By heavenly beings, by evil spirits, by ghosts. So someone says that the Zen practice, the purpose of practice is to see, to insight into the ghostly world, ghostly world. I don't think so, don't think so. In other words, the purpose of the practice is to see something invisibly. I don't think so.

[72:45]

If you think so, please stop thinking in that way. If you think so, if you try to practice hard in that way, you always, you cannot help seeing the ghost always. And after all, I'm sorry for you, you make completely crazy, you are completely crazy, you are completely upset. We have to see, the purpose of practice is to see something more than, you know, more than cherished trappings, what you, what you have put on yourself. Psychologically, spiritually, or physiologically, or physically. Or in sanitary, immorally, and morally.

[73:49]

This something is very huge, world, which many things, visible or invisible, lives together in peace. To live in peace is not to create trouble, scare or fear, whatever it is. When you, as soon as possible, when you see it, see something in terms of a certain trapping, you create, you create some trouble. Fear and, in the form of fear, in the form of, in the form of astonishment. Then, this Buddha said, chakra, if you want to protect, protect, if you want to protect, the bodhisattvas who are staying with panchaparamita.

[75:08]

As the Buddha says, it seems to maintain space, it seems to maintain space, you know, not the certain, certain world, seen from the idea of trapping, trappings. To maintain the panchaparamita sutra, to maintain a complete well-regulating breath, is to maintain the space, maintain the space. Means, it's something we face, you can't catch it. And also, space is not something like, not merely something empty, what you, what is usually supposed.

[76:17]

In, in this, in Japanese Dogen Densei use the word, koku, or kuge, kuge means, kuge is sky, or space, ge is flower, space flower, space flower. So space is not merely this, an idea of what is usually supposed, not merely something empty. This, this space is the place where, the place of which everything lives, everything exists in harmony, in peace. Without making a special issue of something that happens in your daily life. Regardless, regarding as ghost, presence of ghost, or imagination of a Buddha, imagination of some power tripping, power trip, or food trip, or philosophical trip, or psychological trip.

[77:36]

Space, in this case, space is, space is no, completely no amount for discussion. And, whether there is, there is, whether there is what make, what make you and your object, apart from each other, or not. In other words, there is no amount of discussion, who is listener, who is speaker. When you say, oh, he is Katagiri speaker, at that time you see me in terms of certain ideas, what you have put on yourself, so far.

[78:44]

Because I have lived in San Francisco, in United States, for seven years, so you have, you have had some ideas, concerned with Katagiri, consciously or unconsciously. Then, at that time, you say, oh, sometimes you feel not so good, sometimes you feel good. I said, oh, Zen Center students are, I said, Zen Center students, if I have a certain ideas, you are listener. I have, there is already, there have already been bias, concerned with you. Maybe you used to be, all of you used to be hippie, type of hippie life.

[79:48]

Oh, I don't like to speak and to tell, to talk, you know, like a hippie people. Sometimes I feel, I feel so good, speaking in front of you, sometimes I feel not so good. Because I, in the, in the subtle realm of idea, I or you, always seeing, always see something in terms of certain idea of trapping, what you put, you have put on yourself, consciously or unconsciously. At that time, you can't keep, you can't preserve yourself, you can't preserve, you know, listener, or you can't preserve yourself as a listener, oh, I don't like, and you left. Then, I can't preserve, I can't preserve myself, oh, I don't want to give up, and then I left, that's all.

[80:55]

But, to maintain, to preserve, reality of the present, where you are listening, you have to, you have to understand, you have to make your voice, you have to make your voice in the profound realm of, the Paniparamita Sutra, in other words, the Paniparamita Sutra, means wisdom, perfect wisdom, something more than, something like no amount, something like the realm of wish, no amount of discussion, this is good or this is bad. Without being separating from yourself or I-self, then at that time, you can't preserve this reality of the present.

[82:09]

At that time, it is called Paniparamita, then it is called the state of mind which is settling on maintenance, preserving, or honing, preserving with perfection, preserving with full. That's why, Shakyamuni said, if you want to protect bodhisattvas who are staying with the Paniparamita, as Buddha says, it seems to maintain, maintaining space. There is a proper word to explain what is the wisdom to make a board in the realm of Paniparamita Sutra. That's why Buddha used the space, koku, or Dogen used the word kuge, space flower. Space flower is a place, absolute place, where, an absolute place including, including the stars and the rivers and the mountains and the skies, the sun and the moon, the earth and the heaven, the hells and the paradise, heavenly beings, ghosts, hungry ghosts, what else?

[83:34]

Then, that's why our practice is not, the main purpose of our practice is not to see, to understand the world where the ghosts exist. If you think so, if you think so, you always create troubles, with fear, with astronomy, one that, how can you, how can you understand this? The only device, only device which you can use to make it much better, much more affordable and communicable is to resort to the figure of speech to various aspects of human life. Breathing, opening your eyes, walking on the street, eating meal, that's why Buddha says, Dogen says,

[84:54]

A blade of grass and even a speck of dust are tooth-free hands with all hardness when they lie in realization of Buddhahood and the speaking of Buddha's teaching. This is our practice. Then, you think, even though you don't understand the proper way of practicing and regulating the breath, it's mentioned very often, you should take care of breathing breath with all hardness in the profound level, realm. Beyond certain ideas, this is good, this is bad. Beyond the topics, moral, psychological, spiritual, financial, sanitary.

[86:03]

Then, this is, this way is to make your boat in profound realm of paniparamita. As mentioned before, I often say, all you have to do is to settle on yourself with all hardness. Stand upright with your foot, one by one, step by step. Same thing.

[86:32]

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