I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Every time I hear this clunk against the wall, I think I'm about to knock something off of the stand there. What I'd like to talk about today is women. Is that better? Sue, you're the one that knows in that farthest corner.

[01:02]

I don't know. I have such a reputation as a loud mouth. I don't know why anyone would want to turn it down. Well, I still want to talk about women, and particularly the women whose names we chant. I want to give a little bit of background about chanting them. a little bit about what they're like, and then to tell the stories of some of the women whose names we chant. Just about 10 years ago, there was a lot of discussion in the Zendo, very polite, but nonetheless heated, about whether we should have women's sessions.

[02:26]

and it was just the time I was being shoe-sewed, and I sort of felt that I had to take a sort of neutral position, which in a way I did have. I didn't really feel a deep need for myself to have women's seshins. But I knew there was a great deal of feeling for women who did want them. And at that point, we finally decided to have them. And I went to the first one. And when I heard those women's voices chanting, all together and not dominated by the male voices. I'm sorry, it brings tears to my eyes right now just thinking about the feeling then.

[03:35]

For 10 years now, we've had at least one women's Sesshin a year and also men's Sesshin. And it's been a wonderful thing to be practiced together. And it's been a wonderful thing to practice apart and being able to celebrate that kind of diversity. So after we started the women's session, then with some pressure from a few people, we started adding to the echo, recognizing the female ancestors. And then finally, not too long ago, we came to chanting as well as the lineage from the lineage from the Buddhas before Buddha up through

[04:44]

all of our ancestors, male ancestors. We started chanting the women ancestors, but they're not a lineage. They lived at about the same time. They all were alive, the names that we chant, in the times of Buddha. So it's a little different arrangement there. There are some sanghas that are actually creating their own female image now with people who have died recently. But we are chanting, doing a different thing for now at least. I also wanted to say a little bit, just give a little bit of background about the role of women in the days that these women lived and practiced Buddhism.

[05:47]

Basically, their position was someplace about halfway between that of cattle and human beings. And we sometimes fault the Buddha for not doing more than he had done in his time, but considering what was going on at that time, the position he finally took was a great one, a very liberal one. Our information on these women come from the Theragata, which, by the way, according to this book on the first Buddhist women, are among the first religious poems, the oldest religious poems known. That and their male counterpart, the Theragata, which were being written at about the same time.

[07:01]

The first person I want to talk about is Mahajapati. Mahapajapati. We used to just say Pajapati until the Maha was added. Anyway, Maha... I can chant it. I just can't say it. Mahapajapati. was married to the Buddha at the same time that Maya, Buddha's... also Buddha's wife, were married. And... Married to the Buddha's father? I'm sorry. They weren't married to each other, that's right. Thank you. They were both married to the Buddha's father. And... Maya, of course, died very young.

[08:10]

And she died, I believe, seven days after the Buddha was born. And Mahapajapati basically was the mother to the Buddha, raised him. And what I like to do is I think of her, you know, Buddha just didn't get the way he was, though, you know, in a way he did. But her having raised him was a great gift to us. I think all of us are influenced, and we acknowledge that by the people who raise us. So I think a great deal of her. And then another thing that I really like about her besides what she did there was in a way she was a bit of a revolutionary.

[09:16]

We often acknowledge the fact that she wanted to lead a group of Buddhist women who wanted to become ordained. And we often acknowledge the role of Ananda in that, that Ananda went and spoke for many times to the Buddha asking that he ordain women. But the thing that really got to me is the fact that they led a march to speak to the Buddha. and I'm going to read some of this. Now, at one time the Buddha was staying among the Sakyans at Kapilavatthu.

[10:21]

in the Banyan Monastery. Mahapashapati Gautami went to the place where the Buddha was, approached and greeted him, and standing at respectful distance spoke to him. It would be good, Lord, if women could be allowed to renounce their homes and enter into the homeless state under the Dharma and discipline of the Tathagata. Enough, Gautami. Don't set your heart on women being allowed to do this. A second and a third time, Pajapati made the same request, the same words and received the same reply. And thinking that the Blessed One would not allow women to enter into homelessness, she bowed to him and keeping her right side toward him, departed in tears. Then the Blessed One set out for Visali. Pajapati cut off her hair, put on saffron-colored robes, and headed for Visali.

[11:28]

She put on the robes of a priest without being ordained," in other words. And she was with a large number of Sakyan women. She arrived at Kutagara Hall in the great grove with swollen feet and covered with dust, Weeping, she stood there outside the hall. Seeing her standing there, the Venerable Ananda asked, why are you crying? Because Ananda, the Blessed One, does not permit women to renounce their homes and enter into the homeless state under the Dharma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata. Then the venerable Ananda went to the Buddha, bowed before him, and took his seat to one side. He said, Bajapati is standing outside under the entrance porch with swollen feet, covered with dust, and crying because you do not permit women to renounce their homes and enter into the homeless state.

[12:32]

It would be good, Lord, if women were to have permission to do this. Enough Ananda, don't set your heart on women being allowed to do this." A second and a third time Ananda made the same request in the same words and received the same reply. Then Ananda thought, the blessed one does not give his permission. Let me try asking on other grounds. These are Ananda's words. Are women able, Lord, when they have entered into homelessness, to realize the fruits of stream entry, once returning, non-returning in our hot ship? Yes, Ananda, they are able. If women then are able to realize perfection, and since Pajapati was of great service to you, she was your aunt, nurse, foster mother, when your mother died, she even suckled you at her own breast, it would be good if women could be allowed to enter into homelessness.

[13:41]

If then, Ananda, Pajapati accepts the eight special rules, let that be reckoned on her ordination. They say that these women actually walked 150 miles, and they were allowed in, but with certain conditions. And this is part of the story that is not as often told. and Pashupati went and spoke again. I would ask one thing of the Blessed One, Ananda. It would be good if the Blessed One would allow making salutations, standing up in the presence of another, paying reverence and the proper performance of duties to take place equally between both bhikkhus and bhikkhunis,

[14:47]

according to seniority. I think I left out part of the story and that was the first of the eight rules was that the women, the nuns, had to bow down to the lowest, the youngest, the newest of the male renunciants. And Buddha answered, this is impossible, Ananda, and I cannot allow it. Even those teachers of false dharma don't permit such conduct in relation to women. How much less can the Tathagata allow it? But Pajapati, while those rules stayed the same, in a way they were changed when finally on her deathbed, she was dying, she asked that the Buddha come and visit her, which he did, and this was really unheard of for him to come and visit a sick person.

[16:06]

And this is the stanza, the closing stanza, of her poem, that is, Ferris. Homage to you, Buddha, best of all creatures, who set me and many others free from pain. All pain is understood, the cause, the craving is dried up. The noble eightfold path unfolds. I have reached the state where everything stops. I've been mother, son, father, brother, grandmother, knowing nothing of the truth. I journeyed on, but I have seen the Blessed One. This is my last body, and I will not go from birth to birth again. Look at the disciples all together, their energy, their sincere effort. This is homage to the Buddhas. Maya gave birth to Gautama for the sake of us all. She has driven back the pain of the sick and the dying.

[17:10]

Well, I've chosen a diverse group of the nuns, the ordained nuns, and one that I'd like to speak about is Vimala. And remember, these are names that we chant. Vimala was the daughter of a prostitute. When she grew up, she followed her mother's trade. a story, there's a story that Moggallana proved model renunciant and spurned her in these words. In other words, he was telling her what to do. You bag of dung tied up with skin. You demoness with lumps on your breast. The nine streams in your body flow all the time are vile smelling and full of dung.

[18:23]

A monk desiring purity avoids your body as one avoids dung." And this was the kind of meditation that were often used to help the male renunciates to remember not get involved with women, to really think about it in the most basic. But what was interesting After being accosted this way, Vimala became a renunciate who was not afraid of the world, a person who was truly free. And this is her poem. Young, intoxicated by my own lovely skin, my figure, my gorgeous looks, and famous too, I despised other women. Dressed to kill at the whorehouse door, I was a hunter and spread my snare for fools.

[19:27]

And when I stripped for them, I was the woman of their dreams. I laughed as I teased them. Today, head shaved, robed, alms wanderer, I my same self sit at the tree's foot, no thought. All ties untied, I have cut men and gods out of my life. I have quenched the fires. So there we have a young and beautiful woman. And these are two very brief ones. And one is Acharya Dhamma. And Dhamma was born from a respected family, and she was married. And she really wanted to become a nun, but she couldn't be ordained.

[20:33]

while her husband was alive, so she waited until she was quite an old lady, very feeble. And one day when she was returning from the hermitage, she lost her balance and fell. I wandered for arms. I leaned on a stick. My whole body was weak and trembled. Suddenly I fell down and could see clearly the misery of this body. My heart was freed." And then we have another vision of a woman and that's Acharya Chitta. She was born to a well-to-do family and she was quite old and she wanted to become a renunciate but when she was standing at the gate and listening to Buddha teach and she was sort of the

[21:45]

She was still very old, but she was gung-ho. She sort of wanted to deny her old age. And she climbed Vulture Peak, which is not a very high mountain, but is rough terrain. And this is her verse. Though I am thin, sick, and lean on a stick, I have climbed up Vulture Peak, Robe thrown down, bowl turned over, leaned on a rock, then great darkness opened. So this is a story I wasn't sure about telling. And this is about, and I hope I'm saying this fairly right, Bhada Kundalini Lakesa.

[22:56]

It's easier to chant them yet than say them. Anyway, Bhada was born into a quite wealthy family. And one day, Looking out, she saw this gorgeous young man. She fell madly in love. But trouble was, this young man was on the way to the executioner for some crime he had done. And she begged her father, who was quite powerful, to get him freed. And he did so. And they were married. And then it became clear that he was interested only in her jewels and great wealth. And he was making her life pretty miserable to begin with. And then he took her on a walk and it was very clear that he was about to throw her off this cliff.

[24:00]

And she said, oh, let me embrace you just one more time before I die. And the way the words say here is, first she embraced him from the front and then from the back. And as she embraced him from the back, she pushed him off the cliff to his death. So, we have some pretty jazzy ancestors. And anyway, Bhada became one of Gautama's favorite disciples. And it says that, okay, in the early days, the nuns were still permitted to wander some on their own. And then after some occurrences, including rapes had happened, they stopped.

[25:04]

But this is while they were still allowed to wander. And this is her enlightenment poem. I cut my hair and wore the dust and I wandered in my one robe, finding fault where there was none and finding no fault where there was. Then I came from my rest one day at Vulture Peak and saw the pure Buddha and his monks. I bent my knee, paid homage, pressed my palms together. We were face to face. "'Come, Buddha,' he said. That was my ordination. "'I've wandered through Anga and Magadha, "'Bhaji, Kasi, and Kosala, 55 years with no debt. "'I've enjoyed the alms of these kingdoms.' "'A wise lay follower gained a lot of merit. "'He gave a robe to Bada, who is free from all bonds.'" Should we stop and ask for questions or comments?

[26:10]

Oh, there's one more thing I would like... After reading... I guess these are... After the excitement of the nuns, the woman throwing the man off the cliff, this may be come down, but I'd like to read the eight special rules that there were for women. A nun, even of a hundred years standing, shall respectfully greet, rise up in the presence of, bow down before and perform all proper duties toward a monk ordained even one day. A nun is not to spend the rainy season in a district where there is no monk. Every half moon, a nun is to await two things from the order of monks. The date of the ceremony, which, and I don't know what that ceremony is, the Uposata?

[27:24]

It's like a full moon ceremony. It's like a... Twice a month. Okay. Thank you. That was my guess, but thank you. A precept ceremony. Okay. the date of the Upasata ceremony or the precept ceremony and the time the monks will come to give teaching. After the rains retreat, the nuns are to hold Pavarana to inquire as to whether any faults have been committed before both Sangha, that of the monks and that of the nuns, in respect to what has been seen and what has been heard and what has been suspected. A nun is not to revile or abuse a monk under any circumstances. I've skipped some of these.

[28:25]

Admonitions by nuns of monks is forbidden. Admonitions of nuns by monks is not forbidden. Yes. Both revealed and unrevealed.

[29:57]

Which of what you have said would you like me to say something about? I think it's rather difficult for me to reply to what you've said very concretely, because I think our practices are so diverse, the Buddhist practices are so diverse, and what we are reading is the practice of Buddha's time, where recognizing, as I understand it, recognizing enlightenment was very

[31:09]

part, you know, part of the practice. So, or a good part of the practice. I guess one of the, you know, sometimes you don't, you don't say things, or I don't, I forget the obvious, and what we have to remember is that meditation was a large part of the practice and so in that, When you, you know, when you read in more depth you realize that besides Buddha practicing the nuns were practicing meditation practices and zazen basically as well as their other practices. So I don't know what to say. Yes? I enjoy practicing with women. And I think that the book that you're reading from is a more recent book.

[32:16]

And you started sitting back in the 60s, and there weren't so many exemplary women to point out as inspiration. And I wonder, how did you maintain your inspiration back then in your practice? When I started practicing, I practiced at White Way mainly, and there were, you know, quite a bit more men practicing than women then. There were usually about three women or four, I can name them, and among other Blanche Hartman, who is the abbess of Zen Center,

[33:28]

Liz Okumura Toomi, who brought me to the Berkeley Zendo, who now has a small zendo in Bolinas, the Mountain Wind Zendo. There were sometimes two other women, but the rest were men, and sometimes the number of women decreased. I referred to the man sometimes as Mel's yeshiva bochers, which is Yiddish for his student boys. Yes? to me that is.

[34:57]

Thank you, I forgot to mention that and I really appreciate you reminding me. To go back a bit to Ross's question. One of the things that happened, that was happening just before we had San Francisco's Zen Center was the women sat on one side of the zendo and the men sat on the other and after zazen they would bow to each other and Mel really likes that. He mentions it often in talks. So, but that seemed to work for them. I guess the other thing in terms of that feeling, I think I was a bit of a tomboy always, and that feeling about having things separate.

[36:59]

And I remember going to synagogue as a child, and I loved to go down and sit with my father, with the men, when the women were in the balcony. And then when I got too old to do that, I stopped going to synagogue. So... Yes? I'm very touched I was listening to the radio this morning and hearing about a large gathering in Baltimore of women, young women, and old women, like Gloria Steinem. And for younger people, for colleges and so on, to go and see someone like Gloria Steinem, And it just seems to me that there are contemporary parallels, and that some of the old, ancient, the time of the Buddha, important women, nuns, there's a change that's happening

[38:40]

Now... others. But it seems to me that sometime in the future, some of the people we know now And it is important for people to be able to have some sense of connection with those who've gone before.

[40:28]

Just a lot of encouragement. I think it's important for the names of the stories because you need to be able to identify with some people and say, oh yes, that's just like my situation. Thank you for your comments. We're really out of time, but I would like to ask Andrea if she has something she would like to say, seeing she has just... I think one of the things that when I heard her speak and And when I'm reminded that in a way we're the diversity here. I mean, there are a huge number of Buddhists out there practicing that are all different colors and come from different, very different places. And Andrea was just recently. So if we could take a few more minutes and if you have something you could say about your experience briefly.

[41:33]

Well, the main thing for me I came away with was realizing that it wasn't my practice. That it was practicing for Mahapajapati and Mayadevi and it was practicing for the women who are coming up who haven't arrived yet. And that it was important to continue in this practice and make practice available for women because it could change. I think we're out of time.

[42:17]

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