Listen to the perfect wisdom of the gentle Buddhas, taught for the wheel of the world, for heroic spirits intended. Oh, it's a poem. This is kind of like the verse version of the sutra. The first, if you look in the book, you'll see the first half, the first third of the book is kind of like the sutra in verse. But it's pretty abbreviated and different. Which is not an unusual form for some of the Mahayana sutras. If you've taken the Lotus Sutra class with Meili, you'll see that often there's some exposition, some sort of prose-ish exposition, and then following that is a restatement of it in verse. And I think that sort of the way it works is that even the prose is kind of arranged for memorization.

[01:20]

But it's like two different approaches to memorization. Hopefully, if one doesn't work, then the other one will for you. So they managed to actually make both versions survive. It's interesting how they call it Roseapple Island. Yeah, Roseapple Island. I like that. Is that India or is that the world? It's India. Okay. Does anybody have memorization to do? Recite? I lost mine. I was hoping to get my memories, but I couldn't do it. I'm really in the worst. a beginning of a discussion of merit last week, right?

[02:22]

And all, actually, even over the time I was away and these last few days I've been trying to think about this question of And yet, it's pretty fundamental. I think there's a way in which, if we didn't believe in merit, probably none of us would be here practicing now. difference between faith and merit?

[03:25]

Well, I think that part of the faith is that there's merit. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to have some faith because for all of our good acts, there's still some not so good things that happen to us in our lives. And in fact, ultimately, we get old, sick, and die, which is not necessarily what we would choose. And so we might see that as a not favorable outcome, despite all of our good works and good intentions. But I think it's to some degree we take a notion of fortunate rebirth on faith and that's whether you're thinking of rebirth in the long run or you're thinking of rebirth in the moment-to-moment or day-by-day realm which is more the way

[04:37]

I would read you a few different perspectives on merit, and it might open up the discussion. Let me just say while I'm discussing these books that even after last class, which I thought people had some, it felt like people had some real insight, even though I felt kind of over my head, you know, I felt like I really learned something from other people's insights. I still was resisting sort of the idea of investigating this subject any further than Merit, because it just, it does feel very alien, you know. And one morning I just woke up and I felt like, oh, I have business, the people in this class have business with this issue somehow or we wouldn't be here, you know. So I think we should just, I'd offer that as And then I was able to kind of plunge in a little bit more sincerely. So you had resistance to finding out where the... Well, as I was looking at Chapter 5 and trying to figure out how to teach it, I realized this is more of the same stuff about comparing these two people and the merit, comparative merit that one person gets from another.

[06:01]

And I just, you know, realized that there was more. I needed to get into it more and I kind of didn't want to, you know. Why didn't you want to? Well, it just, it still is this issue of the gaining idea for me and, you know, not wanting to, like, why do we need to understand this? But I do also feel like in, you know, in terms of it being, you know, merit is what gives you the opportunity to practice in your life. It allows you to be so-called reborn in a situation where you can practice. I certainly have my share of merit. I feel very lucky to be living here and that. Anyway, I just think we should, if anybody, you know, maybe no one else has any resistance to it, but, well, if you do... It brings up a lot of stuff, like, well, if you have goodies in your life, does that mean you deserve them? You know, did you do something to deserve them? Right. Well, you have to look at them real hard, because they're not always goodies, or there's, you know, there's another side to them, too, their responsibilities.

[07:13]

There are prices to pay. So anyway, go ahead. Well, let me read you a few different things relatively briefly. This is from a book called the Bodhisattva Doctrine in Buddhist Sanskrit Literature. Transfer of merit. The Sanskrit word for merit is punya. There is something even more precious than a bodhisattva's wealth, limbs, wives and children, and that is his merit, punya. He should give it for the good of all beings. The technical term for this gift is parinamana, which means bending around or the transfer or dedication of merit. The idea of punya is one of the central concepts of Buddhism. Every act which is inspired by charity or by charity and morality, sila, produces some punya, which leads to welfare in this life and also secures happy rebirths.

[08:17]

Punya is generally regarded as the power of good deeds that were done in previous existences. It is also called kusala and is collectively termed punya skanda or the mass or heap of A virtuous person accumulates merit, kusala-sankhaya, as a thrifty man deposits money in the bank. No simile appears to be more suitable than that of a bank account. Punya is supposed to result automatically and inevitably from a righteous action. It is an invisible cosmic force that confers happiness on the individual to whom it belongs. The Buddhists have developed a precise quantitative view of punya, which seems to convert their much vaunted ethics into a sordid system of commercial arithmetic. Every good deed produces a certain fixed amount of punya and no more. A unit of punya confers a certain amount of happiness on earth or in heaven only for a certain period of time, after which it is exhausted."

[09:27]

I'm going to skip down here a little. In the early period of the Mahayana, punya was considered to be only the means of securing happy rebirths, while enlightenment was reserved for those who acquired knowledge through using, which is insight, I believe, and concentration. But the increasing appreciation of active altruism in social life gave rise to the new idea that punya by itself could lead to enlightenment. This startling view is clearly expressed by the later Mahayanist teachers. Shantideva even substitutes the transfer of punya, parinamana, for the perfection of wisdom as the final goal of a bodhisattva's career. punya usurps the position which is theoretically according to supreme wisdom, prajna.

[10:32]

So that's one sort of fairly orthodox Mahayana view. And I'll read you another fairly orthodox Mahayana view, very clearly put, from D.T. Suzuki, from one of his early books, Outline of Mahayana Buddhism. This is a session called The Maturing of Good Stock, Kusala Mula, and the Accumulation of Merits, Punya Skanda. One of the most significant facts which we cannot well afford to ignore while treating of the doctrine of karma is the Buddhist belief that Sakyamuni reached his supreme Buddhahood only after a long practice of the six virtues of perfection, the paramitas, through many a rebirth. This belief constitutes the very foundation of the ethics of Buddhism and has all important bearings in the doctrine of karma. The doctrine of karma ethically considered is this.

[11:33]

Sentient beings can attain to perfection not by an intervention from on high, but through long, steady, unflinching personal efforts towards the actualization of ideals, or in other words, towards the maturing of good stock, kusala-mula, and the accumulation of merit, punya-skanda. This can be accomplished only through the karma of good deeds untiringly practiced through many a generation. Each single act of goodness we perform today is recorded with strict accuracy in the annals of human evolution and is so much to gain for the cause of righteousness. So that seems very much the same thing, right? Finally, I will take up something that you're maybe a little more familiar with from the Mumangkat. Some of you may remember the first case in the Blue Cliff record you made, I lectured on it last year and you made your Ron lecture on it this year, where Bodhidharma confronts the Emperor Wu and they

[12:51]

They have a discussion. Part of the discussion, which is found in longer versions of the case, is left out. The first part, actually. And it goes like this. The emperor asked, I have endowed temples and authorized ordinations. He was a great proselytizer of Buddhism. So good works. I have endowed temples and authorized ordinations. What is my merit? Bodhidharma said, no merit at all. So what Dekhan Roshi says here, merit is the responsibility one accumulates by yielding wisdom, treasure, and power. This yielding is a matter of giving so completely that there is nothing left for the donor.

[13:55]

In classical Buddhism, this yielding is called dāna, roughly translated charity. Dāna paramita is the perfection of charity, the first of the six perfections that the devoted Buddhist tries to fulfill. Dāna is first of all our expression gifts of housing, food, clothing, and medicine to those who teach and maintain it. Dana is also the way to embody the interdependence of all things, with all beings giving to all beings. The one who gives wisdom, treasure, and power to others clarifies the Dharma and gains natural authority for more clarifying. This is merit. It is itself passed on through Dana, given in turn by those who receive it. Of course, merit was also considered to be spiritual credit for an auspicious rebirth. The emperor understood this multifaceted doctrine very well, but perhaps he was too preoccupied with it.

[14:57]

Bodhidharma says, no merit at all. Oops. As Yuan Wu remarks, with this response, Bodhidharma poured dirty water over his imperial majesty. What a shock. His foundations were shaken. No merit, no dana, no interdependence. In his next question, he wants to get to the bottom of this. The emperor asked, what is the first principle of the holy teaching? Bodhidharma said, vast emptiness, nothing holy. So, thinking about this, I felt that, it's like I realized something about this case, that because he said no merit, sort of points directly to the existence of merit, and how we practice with

[16:05]

with the idea of merit without a gaining notion is the challenge of perfection of wisdom. And the particular chapters that we've been reading have been talking about the transfer of merit. This chapter, chapter 5, I often wonder about some of Kansi's translations. He calls it the revolution of merit, and I'm wondering what that Actually, I mean, I'll bet it has something to do with turning over. The funny thing is it's not in that chapter that they talk about the turning over. That's the weird part. They don't really talk about the turning over in that one.

[17:08]

Well, he does. You talk about if you were to teach it or copy it and give it to somebody else, Right, you give the perfection of wisdom and you get merit. But the next chapter is really where they talk about dedicating it and turning it over. But anyway, here, the particular merit that's being talked about is that the practice and understanding of Prajnaparamita and turning it over to copying it, giving it to other people, And that's some of what we do, I think, when we sit Zazen together. And that's what we do when we teach. We give Zazen instruction, when we have talks, classes, etc. But I'm interested to know how people feel whether others are sort of equally discomfited by this notion of merit.

[18:19]

One thing too that I just wanted to add is, you know, we talk a lot about practicing with difficulty, but we don't hardly ever talk about practicing with wealth, you know, practicing with your fortunate circumstances. And in a sense, you know, it makes us very self-centered to talk about our difficulty all the time. So, when you start thinking about, you know, oh, I'm so lucky, I wish everybody could have this opportunity, or I would like to give the Berkley Zen Center to everybody, you know, or, you know, in your mind to turn over the good things that are in your, that's how you, that's to me what they're saying is how you practice with the good things in your life, you know, and if you can get away from focusing on your difficulties and notice the merit that's coming your way and turn it over, you know, it's a really different way of experiencing your life than to always be focusing on.

[19:23]

And, you know, that's how we talk a lot, you know, people's questions in lecture, and how I think is, you know, practicing for us means practicing with your difficulties. you know, practice opportunities are your difficulties that you're figuring out how to practice with. So I think one of the things this book is bringing up is, you know, offering some ways to to practice with your good fortune too. Anybody else? I'd like to hear what you think. Well, I have a problem with the the grasping aspect, or the comparative aspect. It's not the grasping, it just seems like, well, merit is. Especially after Alan wrote the third book, the quotation from the third book, and the idea of spiritual brownie points

[20:26]

It's pretty repellent to me, and I guess I must be dishonest with myself if I don't look to see that I'm after that, but I don't believe in an afterlife. I do believe in, and I have the experience of transformation moment by moment at times. a shift in perspective that to me is miraculous. So, I could say that I am looking for a cessation of unnecessary suffering. And I suppose that would be a way of looking at merit. Things are meritorious if they're beneficial to me. But more than that, I mean, I think that that's a legitimate thing to look at. I think it's a Berkeley point of view or something to say, oh, you're not supposed to have things, you're not supposed to be materialistic or something, or money isn't evil or something like that, which I don't think is true.

[21:40]

It's just a medium of communication and transfer, and not just. So I guess that there's this attitude of embarrassment about the idea of merit that we're not supposed to go after that. I think there is a way to start looking at merit as okay, not grasping after it, not falling into great attachment to it. But if you look at yourself as connected, as an interdependent being, and you're looking to have that benefit for the whole world, which you really can't escape looking at as a Buddhist, then I think it's a legitimate thing to look for merit. What is the larger benefit here of what I'm doing? That's okay. And it feels good, you know, it feels good when you do that. I don't know if this makes sense, but that's how I'm sort of thinking about it. I'm glad you brought the question up because we don't talk about merit or gaining idea.

[22:51]

I think as soon as someone talks about feeling good about their practice or powerful or anything like that, immediately people start wanting it and it creates a separation and So sort of empathy, unless people of like experience or completely selfless can say, that's really great. I mean, it's kind of like the metta sutta, wishing happiness and well-being for other people, which is a nice concept, but really is a practice. It's a difficult practice. Very difficult, very difficult, especially when we're going through hard times. I think when I'm feeling good about myself, then it's easier for me to feel good about other people, wish them wish them well. And when we talk about our difficulties, it might be a Berkeley thing, a California thing, or a 90s thing, I don't know. But typically, people are not going to grasp on to that. So it's actually safer in many ways to talk about it. Well, it's interesting.

[23:57]

I'm going to interrupt you a bit. That actually, Well, if I look at myself, it's much easier for me to talk about my own and somebody else's difficulties than it is to talk about their accomplishments, successes, and eases. I find the juices flow a lot more quickly when a difficulty is brought up than when an ease is brought up. I think that's okay. It's kind of weird. No, I think it's fine because it shows that type of person, I mean, the type of person that does that has compassion, and there is compassion, and there is caring, and there is listening. But you do need to hear the fun stuff, too. It's almost like there's a taboo a little bit. That's almost what I'm hearing you say. Yeah, well, the fun thing is you can acknowledge it.

[24:59]

But that's about as far as I go, but I can't make a point. There's more juice in the more difficult stuff, and that's where we can have classes. how great practice is. It's somewhat self-evident by our own enthusiasm in the workplace, sharing the Dharma with friends, encouraging people here in their practice and all that. So I think it happens, but it's not so, the highlight isn't on it so much. And I think in some ways it's good because it's very easy to get attached to that and just be on that one side. create dualities and people not feeling so great about their practice. Right. Wanting to practice. I must not really be practicing because I don't have the ease. I don't have a good feeling and I found in myself over the years, not when I was going through tough times so much, but of kind of holding back a little bit. about that and like feeling good about yourself and about your practice and actually holding back because you're feeling guilty that other people aren't feeling the same.

[26:08]

I don't know. I think a lot about people over the years who actually have felt good about their practice. And it wasn't in a showy way, but it was very obvious by their demeanor and their expression that they were reaping the merits of practice as ineffable as it is. And actually, it's an encouragement. It encourages people who are downtrodden or sort of clouded over that actually there is something to be gotten out of the practice. But I think when we're right in the muck of our problem, it's hard to see, and seeing someone that's kind of walking lightly, it can be like, I don't know why, wait till they trip. Actually, Mel's a good example of someone who doesn't focus on his, who isn't focused on his difficulty, but is, you know, trying to transfer, I think, his love and feeling of abundance about practice to others. Yeah, I think you're right. There's a line in Dogen which is somewhat from the Ocean Seal Samadhi, but I think it must be from somewhere else, because he talks about it in that, but I read it somewhere, and it's about putting heavier feet on the ocean floor.

[27:24]

And I had this image of how solid that would be and how big one would have to be in order to walk on the ocean floor with their head above water. And I composed a poem recently that is walking on the ocean floor, no, feet walking on the ocean floor, face splashed by the waves, sea of tears. which for those of you who know me can imagine what's going on. But what I found for myself during a very difficult and still difficult time is the not all the time, but to actually see that on some level, whatever happens is okay. And sort of walking along slowly, as if you're ever like in the ocean, or even trying to walk fast in a pool, you can't walk fast because there's too much resistance, so you actually wind up walking slow, it's kind of like kin-hin.

[28:27]

And you still get splashed. So it was a good metaphor. through it all. And I've said a number of times, I don't know how people can survive, in this day and age at least, without some kind of meditation practice because it really is very beneficial. And when we talk about the merit It doesn't matter, everybody who sits for some period of time can feel it. And I don't know, maybe we'll be talking about it more by virtue of this class. I don't know. It'll always be that balance, you know. I think if it's brought up like in the Zendo, Mel probably will turn up the other side and talk maybe not so much about that, just as a balance, because we have to, I think, always be aware of treading that line. It strikes me that the degree to which you get splashed as you're walking on the ocean floor has to do somewhat with how strongly the wind is blowing.

[29:42]

Sometimes it's very calm, and sometimes it isn't. But actually, whether it's calm or it's rough, it's the same distance to the bottom. There's a couple of things that strike me here. One is that you do see people whose lives... I mean, the reason that I wanted to be in this practice is because the more I hung around it, the more I felt like I saw people who moved in the world the way I would have wished to be. And that begins with reading Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. And then coming into contact with people more directly, fortunately they keep giving this merit back.

[30:51]

And when they give the merit back, and this is again what goes on here, a bodhisattva is always turning over her merit to all living beings. all living beings are not always in a receptive place to realize it, but it's always being given over. I've been thinking a lot, and this is maybe a bit of a digression, but I've been reading and thinking a lot about Shin Buddhism, about where the emphasis is on other power rather than self-power, as Zen is more kind of, we think of as self-power. And in Shin Buddhism, the Bodhisattva has already turned over all of the merit of the universe to all beings.

[31:59]

But still, there is the moment of being receptive to it, of understanding it. And in this chapter it's interesting, well this gets into the later stuff in the chapter where it's talking about degrees of enlightenment of a bodhisattva. So there's a continual process that is available on both sides. There's the process for the bodhisattva of continually doing actions and turning over merit, and the process of living beings who may themselves be bodhisattvas, of a path, receiving merit, and then turning that back over. So gradually, as you hang around these practice places, you actually see that happening.

[33:06]

First, it may not be so graceful. It may be awkward. It may be emulation, or just mimicry, maybe, or seeming like. But over time, it becomes authentic. And that's really powerful because over a period of five or ten years, you can see that. You can see that motion in people. And still, we have our karmic life. If everything was all wonderful and we did all these good works, it's still the discussion of how come these bad things keep happening to us. And there's that kind of escape clause that was in the last chapter that you read. Talked about punishment actually for past deeds. Right. I said I prefer consequences than punishment.

[34:11]

Right. Bad things will not happen except as a result of past deeds. Well, yeah, let's bring on the good things. But I think Also, the thing that we have about the juices that run with the pain and suffering and the slight embarrassment we have, or more than slight embarrassment, reticence, to acknowledge ease, I think it's somewhat cultural. Don't you? Isn't there the thing, I remember from the 50s or from World War II or something, that we Americans are always looking to help the underdog? I mean, this was sort of this American way. Maybe from long ago, so yeah, that might be part of it. Yeah, empathizing with the underdog. Yeah, yeah.

[35:13]

There's a cartoon character, the underdog. Yeah, right, that's right, yeah. Well, I think we often come to practice because of our difficulties. That's also true, yeah. So I think it's hard to make that, it's hard to know. I mean, you just keep looking, you know, and I think that's a good way to do it, you know. You keep looking for your shadow or your unconscious stuff, and trying to uncover it and practice with it. But I guess what I'm wondering is, you know, can we look at the good stuff in our life and are we willing to give it away completely, you know? What does that mean? Well, like, are we willing to say, gee, this is such a great practice opportunity, you know, living at the Berkley Zen Center. I wish I could give it to somebody else, you know? Or do I want to accumulate it because I need it? Does that mean moving and making space available? Does it mean going out and offering yourself to people and telling them about coming to practice? Well, I wouldn't think it would mean moving necessarily, but I think it would mean being willing to.

[36:19]

In other words, feeling like that would be totally, being totally willing to give it away. You know, totally willing to give everything away. I think that's hard. I don't feel that. I feel, as soon as I say that, I feel this. I need it. I want to accumulate a little bit, you know, a little bit. What about... How would moving be giving it away? Well, you give to somebody else. Allow someone else to have the opportunity. Yeah, but you would move to another place that you would then go... Theoretically, whatever place I lived in would be a practice opportunity. I mean, you know, theoretically, I don't have to cling to the external support. Some are harder than others. That's a good question. How can we transfer our merit? And I think the feeling is just to be, are you willing to, or are you kind of accumulating a little bit in the bank, you know, are you piling it up? I'm not accumulating, it's just, I think of it as, I just think of it as holding up. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I think of it as growing.

[37:20]

I kind of think of it as accumulating, but I mean, I think it could be either, either thing. Now that I have this part, now I want this other thing. Oh, I see. That'll really help me practice. Actually, what I meant by cultural, though... I know that's not what you meant. I wanted to bring that other thing. Okay, yeah, no, that's good. What I meant by cultural is, culturally, and I don't think this is true in the cultures that are touched on here, we're very uncomfortable with thinking well of our lives. As Americans? Or what culture are you talking about? Western European? Mostly I'm talking about American culture, I think. And we could go into, this is, you know, my partly researched and a lot thought about theory, but the people, you know, who came here, who set up the ideology for this country, were people soaked in guilt.

[38:34]

And I'm not talking about everybody, but I just think that certain kind of Yeah, I don't think the people who came here and set this up were. I mean, I think they were so the other way that we're kind of reacting against that. He means the Puritans. I mean the Puritans. Puritans, Calvinists, the early, kind of the radical Protestants. But didn't they have the idea? Not the guilt from having really done anything wrong, but the guilt of just having that be part of their religious belief. Right. That suffering was an exalted state. They should have felt guilty about it. Right. I guess I was thinking of Pilgrims? No, I don't know, but they also believe that if you were wealthy and successful, it was because you deserved it.

[39:40]

They were in demerit, heavily. They were heavily in demerit, and so we're not comfortable with that either. And the people who didn't have it were bad and didn't deserve it. And so I think we feel we're tainted with that. I think that's right, too. I think that actually brings up, for me, we have a lot of very complicated stuff about merit. For me, personally, it's like, well, it's so complicated, maybe let's just put it aside and not think about it. And let's find a teacher who tells us that we shouldn't even have a gaining idea. Right. Which they do. And when Bodhidharma says to the emperor, no merit, we think, Oh, there's no merit. But that's not actually what Bodhidharma was saying. He's actually saying, there's merit. And the moment you try to cling to it, evaluate it, measure it, you're lost in hell.

[40:50]

It's interesting. In a way, you can think of it as like Calvinism with a weird twist. But that's not what it is. It's not about guilt. It's about clinging. Like the First Noble Truth, things are not quite right. Even with this merit, things are not quite right. Can we be comfortable in our suffering? Can we be comfortable in our meritorious accumulation? And of course, either way, it becomes like this sort of self-whipping or gluttony. Right. So, you know, are we sort of clinging to our suffering in a way because we don't want to deal with the issue of our positive? Well, that's a good one, too, because most Americans have a really difficult time feeling, being comfortable. I mean, really just being comfortable. It's a big problem. In the suffering or in feeling okay about things?

[41:58]

In any of it. I mean, it's just a real, you know... Uncomfortable. Sitting still. Sitting still is like, yeah. I see it in Austin. Because the kids pick up, you know, a lot of what's happening out there and stuff. I've been noticing it in him since we moved in. He's just, well, I gotta do this, and I gotta do that, and I gotta do this. And I try to really refrain from doing that, to give him an example of not. So I probably go overboard in it. But it's amazing. I see it in him and I see it in us. Being American, feeling comfortable in yourself is not an easy thing for people. But I was amazed in this, there are degrees and distinctions of bodhisattvahood Or if he would present a copy of this perfection of wisdom to an irreversible bodhisattva, in the hope that he will let himself be trained in it, make endeavors about it, develop it, and as a result of the growth, increase an abundance of the perfection of wisdom, fulfill the Buddhadharmas,

[43:17]

This means, this suggests to me that even in irreversible bodhisattva-hood, there's still, there's still training to do, there's still effort to be made, and it would suggest that there still is a taint of suffering. There still is the experience of suffering. Or there still is lack of total insight into perfect wisdom. Right. There's certainly that. Which I wouldn't have thought there would be, actually. Not in irreversible bodhisattva-hood. You know, we're making distinctions here that, you know, we're usually taught bodhisattva, well, they are the beings, the great beings that could be Buddhist, but opt for the sake of all beings to be reborn in the cycle of suffering.

[44:24]

And here, I'm not so clear on that. The distinctions that are being made here are not so clear, that even though this being is an irreversible Bodhisattva, which means, I guess, that he or she wouldn't fall back into lower realms of existence, they could get stuck there without this training, without this insight into the perfection of wisdom and emptiness. And then in fact, the perfection of wisdom, it does not go without saying that Bodhisattvahood and insight into perfection and wisdom are the same, which is kind of a new wrinkle on things for me. So you're saying if someone has insight into perfect wisdom, they won't necessarily be a bodhisattva?

[45:30]

No, I'm saying that a bodhisattva won't necessarily have insight into perfect wisdom. Or at least that seems to be what they're saying. Yeah, and they say it enough times in enough different ways that you can see that they're really stressing the vital importance of practicing the perfection of wisdom and of gaining insight into interdependence and of giving away that, of constantly giving away that insight. That's the thrust of all this, of these last, of this chapter and the chapter that follows is, it keeps setting up these comparisons. Well, what if one were to do this or that, which would be the greater merit? Right, and I think one point they're trying to make there is, in light of what Alan was reading.

[46:32]

Now, the standard doctrine is that, as they said, you get this from charity and morality. You get this merit from doing these good deeds and morality. But actually, I think what they're saying here is, yeah, you get some merit from doing those things, but the merit you get from having insight into emptiness and from sharing that insight with others is vastly greater than the merit you get from reading anyway, so maybe it's a further development, or it seems like that's actually the point they're making is, you know, if you're out there doing good deeds to get merit, you know, forget that. Where the real merit is, is here, you know. Well, I think that, you know, if you think about these perfections, the paramitas, okay, there's six, six paramitas. Generosity, giving, morality, patience, effort, concentration and wisdom, that if you want to think about them, at least exploring them dualistically, you can see that in a sense the first five can be practiced while maintaining

[47:57]

a notion of self and other. You can be generous. You can be patient. You know, I could be patient in a situation with somebody and be very clear, say, I'm glad I'm not them. Or I could give to someone regularly as a practice. I could give to a homeless person on the street and still have the idea that I'm not them. And frankly, we all do. We have those ideas. But I think you can't practice the perfection of wisdom and maintain that separation. And each one of these parmitas can be a doorway. It is a doorway to the perfection of wisdom.

[49:04]

But I think you can practice them for a long time. You can stand on the threshold for a long time. I don't think the perfection of wisdom allows you that separation. Does that make some sense? Yeah. And that's why it's the... Maybe that's what an agreeable bodhisattva can do too. Is what? You know, really think that there's these other beings that they're going to save. Right. Until they have this insight. that there are no beings. This is really tricky stuff because we have to practice those perfections. That is the essence of our moral and meditational practice.

[50:13]

But without a strong effort to cut through them, then we won't, you know, we will sort of persist in practicing them dualistically. No, it's not, please. I'm sorry. Something's sticking through my thing here. It keeps distracting me, and I thought I would just get it over with. I want to ask you about what you said about suffering, that it seems like the bodhisattvas do not leave all suffering. And that I know that when I'm not suffering, when I'm, or let's say I'm comfortable, I go unconscious. I just, well, it's time to go to sleep now, I'm comfortable. And I wonder if if some suffering is necessary for compassion and for motivation?

[51:22]

To make you human, or to make you be aware that you're here. I don't know if it's necessary, but it does help. I mean, again using the example from Mel, I think he did, his fount of compassion comes out of his own suffering. But I don't feel like he keeps having to dip in there. He doesn't keep having to make his life, you know, complicated to keep... No, I don't mean that. I don't mean wallowing in it or something. I mean that just, you know, it seems like the average irritations of getting through your day can be useful if you use them. If you use them, yeah. I'm just not, yeah, I hear that, I'm just not sure I agree that you have to, that you have to go unconscious when things are going well. There's a difference between being sort of comfortable and dead and being joyful.

[52:25]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the next chapter is called Meditation and Jubilation. You know, joy, having a joy and having insight without any, you know, having just insight into suffering without any moments of that, without some relief that's offered to you by the Bodhisattvas, it would be dreadful. Well, I guess I want to say something about not suffering, but on a slightly different topic, about turning over, about giving.

[53:26]

When I look at kids, or when you talk to kids about other people in the world suffering, and there's this part of people, I don't think it's just kids, where you want to help, you want to take care of people, things to be okay with everyone. That just seems to be really, really deep. When you cut through a lot of anger and fear and hatred, and when people have processed it or whatever, I've seen that there's a place that it seems like we come to where we just want to be of benefit. And that's a very natural part of us. And the practice that we do is, and that is a place of jubilation. It is a place of joy, and excitement, and energy.

[54:26]

And... And it's also what makes the bodhisattva path not just some weird idea, but it's actually the way people are. Yeah, like we're built that way. It's not something you have to sort of nail up, pound up, and you know, try and present prevent things from oozing out in the wrong direction. On the other hand, it does seem like you can nourish it or cultivate it or cherish it or make room for it or something. Yeah. Or not. I think we should move to this thorny question of the counterfeit. Oh, really? Because I was thinking, let's just move on to the dedication and tribulation. I'm just curious to know what people think of that. Okay, let's do that then. Maybe I'm going to use the bathroom, but... Okay, so we wanted to just... The one thing that we... One of the things in this chapter 5, before we... I want us to try this practice this week, so we're going to go into chapter 6 a little bit. Do you have any more chapter fives?

[55:31]

Yes. Do you? No, I just have one extra. Oh, chapter five is on here. It's the last chapter. Chapter six is the one. I think it should be. It's the last few pages. Chapter six. Oh, here's chapter four. Oh, maybe Alan didn't do it right. Chapter five. What did he say? He didn't? It's 120, page 122. Oh, here it is. The Revolution in Merit. So, mainly this is about comparing two guys or two gals and which begets the greater merit. And we did that last week, so we didn't feel we had to really delve any deeper. If you want to delve deeper into that, you can. Basically, if you give the perfection of wisdom, if you teach it, if you expand it to others, you get more than the other guys. So, but we did find this section rather interesting, which we thought we could do as a little play, The Counterfeit Perfection of Wisdom.

[56:39]

How about Debbie, you be Chakra and Ross, you be the Lord. Oh, and start... Can one then expand? Yeah. Chakra says, can one then expand? Down to the bottom of 121. I don't think you're on the right page. Counterfeit perfection of wisdom.

[57:42]

I got it! Sorry. I didn't read it because I lost it. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Can one... Can one then expound this perfection of wisdom? Yes, one should expound it to someone who does not understand it, for in the future a counterfeit of the perfection of wisdom will arise. When she hears it, a person who does not understand should be aware of making obeisance to it if she wants to win full enlightenment. How should she recognize in the future if and when the counterfeit perfection of wisdom is expounded? In the future there will be some monks whose bodies are undeveloped, whose moral conduct through thought and wisdom are undeveloped, who are stupid, dumb like sheep without wisdom.

[58:43]

When they announce that they will expound the perfection of wisdom, they will actually expound its counterfeit. They will expound the counterfeit perfection of wisdom by teaching that the impermanence of form, etc., is to be interpreted as a destruction of form, etc. To strive for that insight, that according to them will be the coursing in the perfection of wisdom. But on the contrary, one should not view the impermanence of form, etc., as a destruction of form. For to view things in that way means to course in the counterfeit perfection of wisdom. For that reason, kausika, should one expound the meaning of the perfection of wisdom. By expounding it, one would beget the greater merit. The et cetera refers to feelings, perceptions, formations, the other skandhas.

[59:44]

Did anyone have thoughts about this section as you were reading it? Well, yes. What the hell does it mean? It's one. And another was, that I actually started to understand a bit, I thought, that it's, let's see, I think Mel said something about people out, I remember hearing him say something in a Dharma talk on Saturday morning, where someone asked, There was a confusion between the cause of suffering as desire and that there is the assumption that we're not supposed to have any desires. Somehow that came up with this thought. That sounds good. And that the confusion is not, we can't help it, we're human beings. is what I recall Neil saying.

[60:46]

We're going to have those desires. We will have form. We have form. I still walk through the door. I don't walk through the wall, you know. And it's just that seeing the interdependence of things doesn't mean that form disappears or is destroyed. At least, yeah. The desire is a good example because it's easier to see how you might think your desire could be destroyed than it is to see how you might think form could be destroyed for me. That seems like a good example. So, you know, unless, you know, Star Trek or something gets really real and good again, I don't think so. Energize. Energize. Beam me up, Scotty. We all watch the same trash. All right. So, I love it. But I would like to hear more about what other people think of this, because it's just a thread of a thought at this point. It feels like something, at least in my generation, we certainly lived to and lived in.

[61:51]

Just the idea that nothing is real. I don't know how to say it any more clearly, but that, you know, I mean, well, Robert Aitken brings this up, too, I think, and he talks about, in fact, he talked about it, I think, the last time he was here, about some Zen teacher in Japan who said, you know, don't think of the person who's in front of your gun, just, you know, there's no one there that you're killing, that kind of fallacy. That's what I thought of when I read that. Oh, that's a good one. God, you guys, these are a good one. Well, that ties... kind of where I took it, as we were talking about it this afternoon, was to a pretty similar place that... So it doesn't matter what you do. Right, exactly. There's no one there to be killed, so go ahead and shoot. Right, that it led to... It's all empty, so it's not real at all.

[62:53]

It's not there at all. It led to a dire kind of... Well, either dire actions or dire cynicism and hopelessness, which go sort of hand in hand. And that's the counterfeit, right? Right. Well, it's still. And still. Yeah. Your story's interesting, though, because it was actually a teacher. It was teaching, you know, the counterfeit, rather than just that it was people's sort of despair. Yeah. But that's what he said, that's what the writing is, that monks will come along and teachers will come and teach this character. Well, it's interesting because as you were saying that, I realized that the thing that troubles me most in this passage is the last sentence.

[63:57]

By expounding it, by expounding the perfection of wisdom, one would get the greater merit. So there's an implication there that there is, even in the counterfeit of the perfection of wisdom... That's who you thought there was. See, I couldn't figure out who he was comparing it to. I don't think he's comparing it to the guy that's expounding the counterfeit. That makes sense. I think so. In this particular paragraph. I couldn't figure out what in the hell. Because when you put it in the context of what Akinroshi was saying, it comes clear to me that actually even that teacher in Japan who was talking about the emptiness of beings and just pulled the trigger was throwing some light, however colored or shadowed, on the nature of emptiness, so that a person, by looking at their own experience, by opening to what their direct sense of reality is, could actually work with that teaching and enter the perfection of wisdom.

[65:20]

It's difficult. It's a difficult path because you're being sort of shunted off into a direction that is not always so helpful. But, in fact, if you trust your own experience, even this bad teacher can inadvertently point you on the road. But it's a lesser merit. So you're saying because of the last sentence he's implying, because that would be get the greater merit, he's implying that there is some merit to this counterfeit teaching. I think he's saying that there may be some merit. And I think this is very polite language. This is a very polite book, actually. Some of the sutras are not so polite at all. They're pretty scathing in kind of announcing themselves as the true vehicle.

[66:30]

And this book, we've begun by outlining how it takes on the Abhidhammas, the people who were objectifying the Dhammas as something real. And I think in this particular little section, he's probably talking about another very strong tendency And this is what, of course, one always hears about, who's the standard critique of Buddhism is that it's nihilistic. Nihilistic? Yeah. Into annihilation or into an alienation. The emptiness means nothing. Right. Emptiness means nothing. There's no form, no feelings, no perceptions, no formations. If you take that literally, if you believe that literally, you can get in big trouble. Because no form, no feelings, no perceptions, no formations, and so on, also means form, feelings, perceptions, formations.

[67:35]

But this was a major tendency. Don't hinder the one that gets it. This kind of negativity and nihilism is, if you take the logical extension of what these words are, I think this was a real tendency in the Buddhist movement at the time. Yeah, but that's why you have all the other students. Wisdom's the different, you know, you shouldn't kill, you shouldn't... That's why they back them up with all that stuff, to put it in perspective. Precepts. Precepts. Well, but you know, in some schools, like the school that Akin Roshi was talking about, in the Rinzai school, for instance, one does not study the precepts until the very end of one's training. I assume you recite them. I mean, they're...

[68:36]

There might be some recitation of them, but you do not study them. It's not traditional to study the precepts because if you study them without a full understanding of Buddha nature, then you will be helpless about falling into duality. You'll think about them dualistically, they'll become no more than the Ten Commandments. I was just going to say, they've turned Christian. Right. Especially in our context. Actually, I was going to say that, because that's the feeling I was getting from this paragraph here, was that I related in the fact that I have been snooping around and sort of touching the surface of all kinds of different religions. And they just don't get it.

[69:38]

I mean, there's just something that they just don't get. It's just this little thing that's left out. But I don't really feel bad that I went on those paths. It wasn't really any harm to me to have you know, looked into that and stuff. So, I was kind of relating, speaking of Christianity. Well, I think it's worthwhile having looked at this paragraph and I think drawing out this point of what sort of moral and psychological implications it has is important and also recognizing be some merit in that, that someone can follow that path and still reach a stage of understanding, that actually you can have a teacher who's not so good and still come to a deep understanding because it's your understanding.

[70:51]

Anyway, I just wanted to touch on that, but Laurie, you wanted to go a little into Chapter 6. Well, if you turn to Chapter 6, which you just got for the first time, Now, Maitreya suddenly pops into appearance here, and I actually look through it. This is the first time. And they don't say why, but anyway, there he is, Maitreya. And then this section, the range of jubilations, is actually a suggestion of a practice. And I would propose, I would like us, if people are willing, to try to do this practice for this week. Okay, like what? We're going to take turns, one paragraph each. But we're going to start with Maitreya. Can I do that one because that was the one I memorized, but I don't know that I have it memorized anymore. In fact, I know I don't, but I'd love to read it. So people think about this and think about this in terms of if you could try this, try this out for a week.

[71:59]

Okay, supreme, well this is called dedication and jubilation, number one, supreme merit of dedication and jubilation, Maitreya, I think it's a typo, on the one side, we have on the part of a bodhisattva the meritorious work which is founded on his rejoicing at the merit of others and on his dedication of that merit to the utmost enlightenment of all beings. On the other side there is, on the part of all beings, the meritorious work founded on giving, on morality, on meditational development. Among these, the meritorious work of a bodhisattva founded on jubilation and dedication, is declared to be the best, the most excellent and sublime, the highest and supreme, with none above it, unequaled, equaling the unequaled.

[73:06]

So let's just each read one paragraph. Number two, the range of jubilation, subhuti. A bodhisattva, a great being, considers the world with its ten directions, in every direction, extending everywhere. He considers the world systems quite immeasurable, quite beyond reckoning, quite measureless, quite inconceivable, infinite and boundless. He considers in the past period in each single direction quite immeasurable, quite beyond reckoning, quite measureless, quite inconceivable, infinite and boundless, who have one final nirvana in their realm of nirvana which leaves nothing behind, their tracks cut off, their course cut off, their obstacles annulled, guides through the world of becoming, their tears dried up, with all their impediments crushed, their own burdens laid down,

[74:10]

with their own wheel reached, in whom the fetters of becoming are extinguished, whose thoughts are well-freed by right understanding, and who have attained to the highest perfection in the control of their entire hearts. She considers them from where they began with the production of the thought of enlightenment, proceeding to the time when they want full enlightenment, until they finally entered nirvana, in the realm of nirvana which leaves nothing behind, and the whole span of time up to the vanishing of the good Dharma as preached by each one of these Tathagatas. He considers the mass of morality, the mass of concentration, the mass of wisdom, the mass of emancipation, the mass of the vision and cognition of emancipation of those Buddhas and Lords. perfections, with the achievement of the qualities of a Buddha, and with the perfections of those associated with the perfection of the super-knowledges, of comprehension, of the vows, and the store of merit associated with the accomplishment of the cognition of the all-knowing, with the solicitude for beings, the great friendliness and the great compassion, and the immeasurable and incalculable Buddha qualities."

[75:36]

Shall I go on? Yes. And he also considers that full enlightenment and its happiness accomplishment of the measureless and unconquered supreme wonder-working power which has conquered all, and the power of the Tathagata's cognition of what is truly real, which is without covering, attachment, or obstruction, unequaled, equal to the unequal, incomparable, without measure, and the power of Buddha cognition preeminent among the powers and the vision and cognition of a Buddha, the perfection of the ten powers, the attainment of that supreme ease which results in the four grounds of self-confidence, and the attainment of Dharma through the realization of the ultimate reality of all Dharmas. She also considers the turning of the wheel of dharma, the carrying of the torch of dharma, the beating of the drum of dharma, the filling up of the conch shell of dharma, the wielding of the sword of dharma, the pouring down of the rain of dharma, and the refreshment of all beings through the gift of dharma, through its presentation to them,

[77:02]

she further considers the store of merit of all those who are educated and trained by those demonstrations of dharma whether they consider whether they concern the dharmas of buddhas or those of pratyekabuddhas pratyekabuddhas or of disciples who believe in them who are fixed on them who are bound to end up in full enlightenment. He also considers a store of merit associated with the six perfections of all those bodhisattvas of whom those buddhas and lords have predicted full enlightenment. She considers a store of merit of all those persons who belong to the Prachekabuddha vehicle and of whom the enlightenment of a Prachekabuddha has been predicted. He considers a meritorious work founded on giving, morality, and the meditational development of the four assemblies of those Buddhas and Lords, i.e., of the monks and nuns, the laymen and laywomen.

[78:10]

She considers the roots of good planted during all that time by gods, Nagas, Yakshas, Gandharvas, Asuras, Garudas, Kinnaras, and Maharagas, by men and ghosts, and also by animals. At the time when those Buddhas and Lords demonstrated dharma, and when they entered parinirvana, and they had entered Hari-Nirvana thanks to the Buddha, the Lord, thanks to the Dharma, thanks to the Sangha, and thanks to persons of right mind culture. In his meditation, the Bodhisattva piles up the roots of good of all those, all that quantity of merit without exception or remainder, rolls it into one lump, weighs it and rejoices over it, Excellent and sublime jubilation.

[79:14]

The highest and ultimate jubilation with none above it unequaled, equaling the unequaled. Having thus rejoiced, he utters the remark, I turn over into full enlightenment the meritorious work founded on jubilation. May it feed the beings. So you want us to do this this week? Everybody has to smoke a joint. Okay, so you consider the past period. So we're talking about everything that's happened from beginningless time. And you know, the one word that leaped out at me was friendliness here. I mean, of all the things that, I don't even know what they're talking about, but if I just, what about if we just consider the things that we do understand, like all the friendliness. that has ever, and you know how great friendliness is, and how you feel when someone's friendly to you, and how that really does create, you know, merit.

[80:17]

It makes you feel good, it makes you feel like going and being friendly to someone else, and then they feel like going and being friendly. And thinking about all the friendliness that's gone all over the world since beginningless time, and if you can think of anything that's like generosity or compassion or, Solicitude is good. Solicitude? Where'd you get that? Right before friendliness. Which page are we on? I didn't see friendliness. We're on 1.25. I know, well it kind of gets buried in there in the math and reality concentration wisdom. The perfection of the super knowledge has got me stopped right there. Right. Friendliness is the greatest passion. You can do a lot of that in traffic, I think. Yeah, so consider it, right? Consider it. We try to consider all of it. as much as we can, and then when we've rejoiced in it, we utter the remark, I turn over into full enlightenment the meritorious work founded on jubilation.

[81:19]

May it feed the full enlightenment of myself and of all beings. So that turning over, this is the dedication point. And then we're going to talk about the problems with turning over next week, after we've tried it. I'm sure we'll... If there are any. I don't know. And also just keep in mind that that's what we do every day in service. Twice a day. If you can, twice a day. We do it openly and in so many words, not just symbolically as we're sitting. So it's actually a very important part of our practice. So I'd really appreciate if people try at least twice to actually sit down and try to do it at least twice this week. And see what happens. And see what happens. And be ready to, you know, report back. I was trying to explain to a co-worker of mine this very thing. I wrote a paper on how to work, how to be mindful at work.

[82:22]

It helps you, it helps everybody else. One of the things was sort of being nice to customers, and sometimes he doesn't feel so nice or happy, and then people get bummed out by it. And I tried to explain to him that you don't have to be, I mean, that's their issue, that's their problem. You don't have to be their sort of clown, be there, sort of spark or lift, but I tried to share with him that if you go, if you meet with someone at a store and you're the customer and that other person's kind of, you know, not there. Bureaucratic idiot or something. Not presenting any kind of life or or a levity, then you tend to go away feeling the same way, kind of neutral, maybe down. And I told him that it's really hard and you're always balancing, you don't want to be phony. But there's something about, as you said, thinking about all the joy and sharing that's gone on for ages to try to make those meetings that we have all the time a little lighter. But you can't quantify it, I mean, you know, why do it?

[83:25]

One part is you want to get a lump there. Right, roll it up and smoke it. Well, you want to do it, there's this, you know, it's interesting. I told him he would feel better after it because, and I think it kind of resonated because, you know, you start thinking about if you go come back and be a customer. And also there is a practice of going for, of saying yes to people. The automatic, you know, working with kids you can really get into an automatic, no you can't do that number. With adults or with anyone in your life who has a request of you, it's an interesting practice. At least, rather than saying no, if you can't say yes, negotiate it. And it, you know, it gets to another level of energy, of moving out. It's something good for me. Well, let's rejoice. I've had a very grouchy year. I've been feeling pretty grumpy lately.

[84:29]

This will be very good. Good. Thank you. Hopefully we'll see you all next week. Maybe we'll have you outnumbered.

[84:40]

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