Please speak up. I'm not able to represent the group. Yes, but I'm not either. So we're together. Just say what I remember Please We had an interesting arriving as a group So it was not deniable that the bodies had already arrived in here now So it seems to be possible to be in the now without the consciousness being part of it. And then they said it was interesting, this image of throwing an anchor, because you've been at sea.

[01:13]

Me? Yes. Oh, yeah, that's true. They have sea anchors, you know. It doesn't have to get in the ground or anything. It just holds the boat in the middle of water. So anyway, yeah, go ahead. So it was interesting to see that you have to decide to throw the anchor. It doesn't work if you don't want to do it. It's intention-born. It's good to be there to rest a while when you throw on the anchor.

[02:29]

So then it was also clear to the group that it's good to kind of Pull the anchor up because just remaining anchored would mean some kind of stagnation. Okay. There's many things. It was, I think it was around seven, around seven, It was like seven consciousnesses which came together. That was very clear. And what we noticed, what is probably quite important, is to have a sangha. Yeah, okay. Maybe one could have a phrase so you don't get stagnant in your anchoring.

[03:41]

Something like newly anchored, on each moment, newly anchored. Now anchored. Like it's useful to... Use a phrase like just now arriving, on each moment, just now arriving. And arriving is also a kind of anchoring. Okay, thank you. Any other guilty groups around here? We're a Buddhist, you know, this is a Buddhist group. Shameful groups, yes, but not guilty groups. Hmm. Geralt? I know, I know.

[04:59]

So we want to replace the anchor with an image maybe to what do we always return to. One image was deep water that moves very slowly. And the other one was kind of a stage or scenery or the background of this stage. And the feeling was that we started out as singular or separated individuals. We all had the feeling that we wove something together and turned more into a weaving than

[06:31]

what it was before, which was mostly something of spaces in between, and now it got woven together. The question that was also asked was, can we use this way of being anchored, And then we had this question if this anchoring or this grounding yourself in something deep, if that's something you can do alone or if that's something you really need a sangha for. Yeah, okay. This is something I should speak to tomorrow as well.

[07:51]

Anyone else has something you'd like to add? Yes. My group didn't need it, but there was another question that interested me. Whether one is in the present moment, whether one is aware of everything, or whether, for example, one is able to disconnect from the sense perception and does not concentrate too much, whether one is still in the present moment, or whether one is in the present moment and is aware of everything. Okay, so my group has spoken already, but I personally would like to know something. If you are in the immediacy, is that something where you perceive everything at once, or is that something where you kind of shut off your sense impressions and you just experience your breath?

[08:56]

So is it something where you experience everything all at once? Well, in the fullest sense, immediacy is an all-at-onceness. In its fullness, the immediacy means something or everything at once. and it's certainly being open to an all-at-once. Practical example. So if you're there in the immediate sea, And you're completely immediate. And then you don't notice that the door opens, or is that something that has to be noticed? No. Nothing has to be. But it's more likely. I mean, I used to notice in the early days of my practicing, if I was with a group of people, say, I've not mentioned this before occasionally, but it struck me.

[10:20]

Yeah. I would be with a group of people somewhere, like we'd all decide to stop somewhere and meet somewhere, and we'd be in a kind of, say, restaurant-type place. Maybe the restaurant's closed and you're sitting in some sort of room having a conversation. And in another room, sort of off, you know, there's that perennial, I mean, always often present songs going on. Und dann in einem anderen Raum sind diese ewigen Lieder, die vor sich gehen. So in the midst of the conversation say that there's six or eight people and four of them or three of them are practitioners.

[11:26]

Also mitten in dieser Gruppe von acht vielleicht sind drei oder vier Leute, die praktizieren. So we're having a conversation about something. I don't know, like when do we all get together on next Saturday to do something or that. But in the far room is Cole Porter's It's So Easy to Love. And so, you know, in the middle of the conversation, I might say, yeah, let's meet next Saturday, but, you know, I really wish it were so. And then I go on. And the practitioners all have heard the song and know what I mean. That I wish it were so, that it was easy to love. Because, you know, as Andreas mentioned, there's more of a feeling of a field that you're noticing rather than the contents in the field. But while I'm commenting on that it isn't easy to love or often too easy to love, several doors might have opened and I didn't notice them.

[13:01]

But still, practitioners are more likely to notice this. Okay, yeah. Yeah, the experience of soft eyes is really important. You know, this yoga, martial arts idea of feeling your eyes soft, feeling behind your eyes, is also a physical feeling close to experiencing a field and not conceptual observations. It's important to develop these soft eyes because... Because they're prettier.

[14:09]

Oh, yeah. That's good. All right, anybody else want to add something? Yes. I often have this feeling, when I sit in this sheet, but also when I feel myself immediately, and this is very, very physical for me, I can't separate it, that sometimes I feel moods in the space of people, joy, sadness, and I try to perceive them only, to judge them, and not to accept them. And my question is, Sometimes when I sit in the chair, but also when I'm here in the room and I feel really brave, present,

[15:13]

For me, every time it's a very physical feeling. It's really physical. And sometimes I feel how people feel, if they're sad, if they're happy. And I try not to get involved, just to notice it, not to judge it. But even so, noticing it, does it mean I'm already distracted? Or does it belong to feeling really present and complete in the moment? It belongs to it. But the feeling oppressed by it, or that you have to do something about it, doesn't belong to it. Unless you can really do something about it. But the feeling that you should do something about it when you can't is a problem. I remember once... In a session or some situation, somebody started crying and screaming.

[17:01]

And I'm just a student, so I just sat there. But Sukhirashi was the teacher, and he just sat there, too. So afterwards I stopped him in the hall. I remember very clearly, halfway up the stairs and halfway down. And I said, should we have done something? And he said to me, haven't you ever heard a baby cry? And what he meant was... that this is something that's part of us.

[18:09]

And as we accept it in ourselves, we can accept it in other people. Maybe we react, but it's not necessary always to react. Just to accept, just to hear. Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva of compassion and wisdom, that's the beginning of the Heart Sutra, is the one who hears the cries of the world. So, Yeah, whatever I say sounds a little corny, but I can't say it.

[19:21]

you don't feel separate from, I don't, when something like that feels separate, but I don't feel, I don't feel separate, yet at the same time, I don't feel invaded. Invaded means that it goes into you. Yeah, I don't feel, like a lot of people have problems that they take on the suffering of other people. Okay, that sounds a bit strange, what I'm saying, but... When I experience something like that, I feel it. You feel it, but you don't feel invaded. You accept it. I feel it, I accept it, but I don't feel overwhelmed in the sense that I have to take it upon myself. Like I accept my own suffering. Just as I accept my own suffering. Just part of being alive.

[20:26]

Well, I think we've, unless somebody else has something you'd like to say. I hope someone else has something. Yes, please. Here first. We also had a part where we spoke what it means being in the moment. When we speak about the past, we are not in the past. We just remember the past, but we remember to find the present. When we speak about the future, we are not in the future. We can only do that from our momentary place. Consciousness, that we are doing it that way, that is again something we can achieve in the moment.

[21:38]

In that place though, I read something of Ken Wilber who speaks about the time factors. In the moment when I am conscious, that I'm just remembering the past or planning to the future in the moment of getting conscious of that then I'm not in the moment anymore because I remember something that I've done which has now already moved into something else everything that has to do with thinking is not the moment So we ask what is real, which is what can only be in the moment. It can only be something with feeling and something with perception.

[22:44]

And as soon as we start thinking, we're off it already. I don't think so. Ich glaube nicht. Yes, as soon as you identify with your thinking, you're off it. But we can have various fields of mind. We can identify with a mind that's primarily non-graspable feeling. Or a mind that's a blissful field of sensory awareness only. And at the same time you can have a sort of small observer in the corner. who you don't identify with because you can hold your identification with this other mode of mind

[23:57]

But you can at the same time notice what's going on. But in general, yes, if you identify with your thinking, you've lost it. Now, I give the example as a standard sort of example to try to touch into this area. It's in the beginning of practice when you come to a point where you feel like you just feel very clear and there's no thoughts. And a feeling of excitement comes up. This must be samadhi. And you think, oh, and then you're no longer in samadhi. But But after a while you develop the yogic skill to be in samadhi and explore it at the same time without losing samadhi.

[25:11]

And that's because mind states are also body states. So you can hold the state of mind with your body while you examine it with your mind. Yes, because then you can discover many things we can call samadhis. Your last. So I want to add something to this. The idea of Sangha was in this group with Gerald and we did not only speak about it, we also came to a result about Sangha.

[26:19]

We had this image of this woven thing. We started out with these spaces in between from each one of us within his or her own world of terms. And then some mysterious thing he added to it. And in the end it was a piece of sangha. Thank you. It's wonderful to be here with you. Maybe in the background somehow we are seeing the same movie.

[27:26]

Humming the same song underneath our differences. Thank you very much. Thank you for translating. Until tomorrow.

[28:29]

I mean, later. Somehow I've recovered my voice.

[29:44]

Good morning. Guten Morgen. Because some of you don't know, I think it's probably nicer to hear it from me than just, you know, sideways. I was diagnosed with prostate cancer last year. Yeah, I got the information during the Sashin in December, the result. Yeah, since most of you know, particularly the residents here, kind of took care of us while I was treated.

[30:46]

I'll give you a short, short story about it. Yeah, so anyway, sometimes I hear in the Dharma Sangha cancer skier and I say, what was that? I wasn't, it didn't seem like a big deal to me. I guess since my prognosis has always looked pretty good, I thought people wouldn't be worried. And since my prognosis has always been quite good, I would not have thought that people would be disturbed. And since I have already visited so many people in the hospital, it feels to me as if it were a part of my life.

[31:57]

And because I have insurance in the United States, since I'm over 65, I probably would have gone back to the States to try to treat it. But a group of Dharma Sangha doctors got together and said, you probably ought to do the operation soon. And not wait till you go back to the States and then try to find a good doctor and so forth. So we'll find you a good surgeon and recommend a good surgeon. So three surgeons were recommended, one in Berlin, one in Karlsruhe, and one in Freiburg.

[33:15]

So I liked the guy, nice guy in Freiburg. And so I did the two operations actually in January 7th and 9th. I was in the hospital two weeks and my daughter came from America and spent three weeks helping with Sophia. So Marie-Louise could translate when somebody approached me with a needle speaking German. And I found, you know, nobody talks about these things. I don't know. It just seems normal to talk about it. But I found, I don't know. At least a third of my friends who are my age and older have prostate cancer or something like that, some version of it.

[34:29]

Yeah, so now I get e-mails and calls, and I'm a sort of one-man self-help center. And most of the self-help came from here and the Dharma Sangha folks, but anyway. Yeah. Yeah, and because I don't have insurance here, this group of doctors said, you know, we and we'll find others probably who might be willing to pay for the bills. And since I'm not a, you know, a tax-deductible Dharma Sangha project... The contribution had to be, you know, just, you couldn't deduct it from your taxes.

[35:41]

So I asked not to know who makes contributions. Because I didn't want anybody to feel pressure from me. Why didn't you contribute or whatever? No, I don't know who did, but I'm very grateful that somehow it was gotten together to pay the bills. And after the operation, it seemed wise to have, while there was still a target, radiation treatment in addition. So I went through seven weeks, actually eight, but seven weeks of treatment for radiation.

[36:58]

So I went through seven or eight, actually seven weeks of radiation therapy. From a really nice guy called Professor Dr. Dr. Fromhold. And when I was introduced first to the nurses, I said, well, I'm Mr. Mr. Baker. And when I first introduced myself, I said to the nurses, I'm Mr. Mr. Baker. But he was very nice and fatherly and kept patting me and stuff like that and saw me several times a week sometimes. And he's written an eight-volume book on radiology, so I felt in good hands, if I can be honest. So, you know, I suffered some side effects, but it hasn't been too bad. Yeah, the operation was from the perineum, so it's interfered with my sitting a little bit.

[38:21]

The surgery was done over my back and that's why it didn't work so well with my sitting. I don't know for what reason, but I'm not as flexible as my knees are and I don't sit as well. Anyway, all in all, it's... I can't complain. Yeah, I feel quite good. People tell me, you look so much better than you did in February or last month or something. I don't... I look in the mirror, I look the same every morning. I don't know.

[39:32]

I feel like my friend Lou Welch, who wrote a little short poem. He looked in the mirror in the morning and said, I don't know who you are, but I'll shave you. So I felt pretty good every morning. I didn't know who it was, but, you know, I shared. Anyway, that's all there is to that. And the side effects get a little less every day. Some very old habits I learned when I gave up diapers.

[40:35]

I've been somewhat disturbed, but I'm beginning to learn the habits again. Yeah, somewhat. I don't know. I realized this morning, actually. Because I was thinking of speaking to you about something Sukhiroshi said. Suzuki Roshi got gallbladder cancer. In exactly the same year as me, when he was 66 and he died when he was 67. So he died just at my age. And next year he would be 100. So I looking at a lecture of his from 34 years ago, June 1971.

[42:03]

And he died in December of 1971, just after the bell starting the December Sashin. And it was the first Sesshin I had to lead. And after the opening bell of the first period, Suzuki Oksan, Mrs. Suzuki, came down and got me out of the sender. And I went upstairs with Suzuki Roshi for the next 20, 30 minutes while he died. Yeah, I'd hoped to have at least, in my mind I assumed I would have at least ten more years with him.

[43:22]

Yeah. At the same time I feel between meeting and not meeting there's no difference. So he said, it may sound funny to say it, but he said, you should realize you are the most important person in the world. He said it that way, but I can say it in a less dramatic way to kind of fit in with our values. This is your life and no one else's.

[44:29]

The Buddha, supposedly, the story is, not supposedly, the myth is, the Buddha was born and took seven steps and said, I alone am the world-honored one. And that's, you know, every baby is the world 101. The whole world, everything in the world is needed to make this one baby. And deep down, you know, without being, this isn't about being egotistical or something, deep down, this life is our responsibility. The whole world made each of us possible, and the whole world is ours.

[45:57]

belongs to us this is our world this is our family Sukhirashi said that Nichiren who is the founder of the Nichiren school of Buddhism in Japan said Buddha wrote the Lotus Sutra for me Buddha had the Lotus Sutra for me. And Sukhiroshi said, we need this kind of feeling. Otherwise, he says, these sutras are just scrap paper. Buddha, because you practice Buddhism, he said, because you practice satsang, There is Buddha. And there's Dogen, and there's Bodhidharma, and there's Suzuki Roshi.

[47:16]

He didn't say that, but I can say that. If you really see that everything Before you is the truth, the fundamental truth. And this is, we can say right now, I'm speaking about an attitude, a view. And, you know, it... When I look at my own life and practice, in little different ways, this has been my experience. For example, I was working as a waiter in Cape Cod when I was in college.

[48:18]

Yeah, I was over the entryway. There was a sloping roof. And I used to go out on this sloping roof. It was a little hard to sunbathe, but you could read. And I was reading a book by William Faulkner. What was it called? I can't remember right now. But anyway, he's famous for writing really long sentences. Sometimes a couple pages long. So I'm not, and he's not German. So I'm reading this sentence, you know. And I could not understand it.

[49:40]

And I thought, I'm just not smart enough for this book. I can't understand it. And then I stopped and I thought, but I'm a fairly intelligent person. I should be able to understand this thing. And so I thought, he wrote this sentence for me. And I read it and it's completely clear. And it's always been curious to me, just a shift in attitude. And I've almost never had the experience of not understanding something since. I mean, I guess I read it knowing it's written for me, so whatever it is, whatever experience I have reading something is the understanding.

[50:53]

I can't explain it better than that. And it's also interesting that I can remember the sloping roof, the time of day, the look of the angle of the sun Because often these insights or inner recognitions or shifts in view somehow stay in the memory in a contextual sense, in the actual smell, feel of the day. And when you look back in your own memory, and there are certain bright spots where you can remember the

[52:03]

how everything looked and smelled and tasted, etc. I would say you can think of those or examine them as points of realization or little enlightenment experiences or shifts in view. And that becomes more apparent as your practice matures. Okay. Then so Sukhya Rishi partly was speaking in this lecture to people who say, oh, I'm not good enough for practice.

[53:21]

Practice looks so beautiful and everybody is calm and natural. Or I'm just not smart enough or something. Yeah. He said, you can't have this viewpoint and make your practice work. Got to feel like Nichiren. This sutra was written for me. This teaching was given by Buddha for me. No one can fulfill this. He said, at my age, you recognize... He said, when you're young, you think you have another 50 years or 100 years to live.

[54:28]

He said, when you're my age, you realize no one can fulfill this life you have. I can't make any excuses. No one else can do this life. I have this responsibility. Yeah. So you don't say, oh, I don't like this part, I want... In each situation you just do it, whatever it is. Because the truth is what we're doing, not, oh, I don't feel like this part of it. And again, I have a small example of this too.

[55:39]

I was working in this warehouse in San Francisco. A book warehouse that gave me access to books. It was the first warehouse, first distributor of paperback books. Everything was hardbound until then. And this was set up just to distribute paperback books. So anyway, I went to lunch Blanche's. I went to lunch at Blanche's. Blanche's husband had offered me a job in a fishing boat. And I thought, I like books better than fish.

[56:43]

So anyway, I was walking back and I was reading a book of D.T. Suzuki's. Yeah, and I closed it, and then I was walking along. It was a nice day along the waterfront. And then I thought to myself, you know, I should probably practice Zen. And then I thought... but I'm not good enough to practice Zen. So I thought, okay, I won't. Then I opened the book again at random. And it said, it is a form of vanity to think you're not good enough to practice Zen. I almost started believing in Buddha.

[57:59]

So I closed the book. I'd been caught. It was true. It's a form of vanity thinking. I'm not good enough. It's just ridiculous stuff. You have this life. No one else can do this life. In that sense, you are the most important person in the world. So here she said, this is ultimate truth. This is what ultimate truth is. So the next day I went, To Zazen, for the first time.

[59:05]

I wandered into this dark room and sat down on the women's side. That's the reason I always want men and women to practice together. And I didn't know that they had men and women's sides. Later we didn't, but at that point they did. And after a little while, somebody came and tapped me on the shoulder. And I almost would have said, what did I do wrong? But I didn't after my experience the day before. But this person said, you're on the women's side. It's like these parking lots, you know, where you can't park or... I pretend a woman's coming later to pick up the car.

[60:17]

Not often, only when I'm in a very big hurry. But I wear skirts. This morning you saw me in the States. My daughter hated me to pick her up at high school because her father wore skirts. In those days I wore my robes all the time. Yeah. Anyway, so I started sitting. And now my legs are getting a little troublesome, but it's okay. Mm-hmm. Do you understand? You're the most important person in the world. So I should now talk about daily practice, right? But it's also time for a break.

[61:34]

Daily practice includes breaks. Thank you for counseling. Is there anything you'd like to talk about?

[62:53]

Yes. I have a question regarding yesterday. How would you define the term dating? How would you define the terms thinking? I can also kind of narrow this. Is thinking the necessary act which is necessary for observing and perceiving? Or if you speak about thinking, is that associative thinking? Does anybody have any easy questions? Next question, no. No, no, let me say... What I'm actually heading for is the observing.

[64:10]

No. Observing, thinking or not thinking. I always thought that observing is not thinking. It is only observing. I was something confused about. Yeah. Well, we have the words. Two languages. And we have our experience. And if we're going to speak about these things, we have to somehow relate the words to our experience. So I think maybe the best thing is to start with some examples, try to speak about it through examples. When you wake up in the morning, And you, yeah, still half asleep.

[65:28]

And you may have some observations. Like, it's morning. Was that the wake-up bell? I don't know. I wouldn't call that thinking so much. It's a kind of noticing that might take the form of words for you. Yeah. But once you start... The kind of thinking which is, well, I have to get up and today I have to do such and such, that's thinking. And what's the difference? One is... has a kind of logic to it or relevance to it.

[66:51]

Because you're thinking these things you decide to get up or you decide what your plans are for the day. And that produces a certain kind of mind. And that mind which is linked to consciousness and linked to comparative thinking and linked to words often. And that thinking generates consciousness and consciousness generates thinking. From the point of view of practice, that's what I call thinking. Now, from a scientist, a biologist who's kind of studying the brain, I still think he'd find a distinction between those two.

[68:05]

The brain would light up in different areas, probably with these two different kinds of thinking. So if I said, see if you can look at the garden without thinking, when you suspend or hold to the side thinking, You're still observing, but you're not thinking about the garden. So that's a difference, and it's a different kind of mind. And I think the most useful thing for us is to understand the five skandhas well, because it helps us distinguish between the most basic differences in mind.

[69:14]

helps us to understand the difference the most fundamental the most basic differences in mind. If you're in Zazen and an airplane goes overhead and you notice the you notice the sound. Noticing the sound is not thinking. To say, to have the kind of recognition it's an airplane is not yet thinking. But to clearly take that noticing and shape it into, that's an airplane.

[70:34]

That then is then. Now why do I call it thinking? They're both mental activities. Because thinking, when you say that's an airplane, you're really no longer in zazen. It starts producing a thinking mode of mind that notices. Okay. We could spend a lot of time on this, but is that enough? Yes. So I tried... The word cognition is a... is a word we can use in English. But the sound of it is a little of a problem. Because in English it resonates with ignition. to light something up, to start an engine.

[71:48]

And it has a very active feeling to it. To cognize something really sounds like to think about it. But technically, to cognize or cognition just means to know, doesn't mean to think. So when Buddhism is discussed rather technically in English, there's a whole range of cognitions which aren't thinking. But I tend to distinguish between knowing and thinking. We know, we hear, we feel the airplane, but we don't think about it as an airplane, it's just a sound. Unbeknownst to the pilot, in the dark he's spreading bliss through the Zendo.

[73:01]

He doesn't know. Secretly he's flying in the dark. Okay, second part. Both are OK, yes. A question exactly to this topic. The cognition of hearing, just hearing without associating, in what way does this relate to what you call consciousness in relation to the skandhas? Okay, let's say that again, all right?

[74:15]

Either of you. There's a separation or differentiation between thinking, which is associative, and that founds consciousness, the foundation of consciousness, this thing. Is associative thinking consciousness? No, he says that is one. What? That's a part of the question. Okay. Wait. Okay. To say it the other way around is, what part of the five skandhas, now of the?

[75:18]

What is included in the consciousness? Yes, in the five skandhas. In the five skandhas, what part of the five skandhas are in the consciousness? And so if you hear hearing, how is that connected with that? You don't know how much I like this. Yeah. One way to... One understanding of the five skandhas... Um... Um... It's not the right word, but yeah, I just say it that way.

[76:32]

It's not actually a correct statement. It's that consciousness is the merging of the first four skandhas. Because let's take the perceptual, percept-only skanda. Consciousness is made up of perceptions. So without the percept skanda, there wouldn't be consciousness. Because we know it. Okay, but consciousness takes over and makes all the other four skandhas serve its purposes. Okay, so that the... the value of percept-only mind is lost in consciousness.

[77:48]

Okay. Now, associative thinking is not consciousness. But we shouldn't say thinking. You really need a technical language for this because the common way of using these words just overlaps all over everything. So sometimes I use associative mentation. Because mentation means mental activity, but it's wider meaning than thinking. Okay, now why is associative mentation? Different from associative thinking.

[79:06]

Different from conscious thinking. Okay. Now, I think that what we know as contemporary psychology is based on the mindological fact, and probably biological fact, that there's a distinction between consciousness and associative mind. And I think Freud, one of the significances of Freud is that he noticed and made prominent this distinction. Other people, I'm sure, noticed the distinction, but he noticed the potentialities of the distinction.

[80:25]

A fellow Austrian. Yeah. Okay. Now, it is not clear to me, I'm trying to actually sort this out myself right now, I don't know if this is interesting to you. I'm just sharing my own thinking right now. My own something or other. Did Freud think that what he called free associating Did he think it was really a form of consciousness?

[81:31]

Or did he think it was different from consciousness? Or did he think both and never really sort it out? Now, I think Freudians often think of it as a form of consciousness. They think of it as a method. There's a big head shaker here. Well, I know some Freudians do because they write about it as a method, as a technique. Yeah. And... In general, Freudians have abandoned lying on the couch and so forth. But I think Freud somehow discovered or recognized that there was a difference in mind when you have a different posture. And so that when you free associate, if you know things, remember things that you don't remember in ordinary consciousness,

[83:09]

Then that means that the mind of free associating is a different mind than consciousness. And it seems that Freud to explain how does free associating know things that consciousness doesn't. Then said, OK, there must be a place where these things come from. And that place he called the unconscious. Now, Buddhism never made that distinction. Buddhism doesn't assume an unconscious. And my own opinion is that to the extent that the unconscious is a dynamic of our own consciousness...

[84:15]

It probably is a fairly recent development in the last 200 years or so. The dynamic between conscious and unconscious, my own sense is, is probably a dynamic which came not much before Freud's time. I would guess if you went back to the, say, twelve hundreds, the dynamic of conscious and unconsciousness wasn't the same as it is today. I don't think these things, I don't know if this is all interesting, I'm getting myself in hot water here. I think that the structure of the mind, structure of the brain even, is generated by our activities.

[85:44]

Much of the structure of the brain is generated by our activities and our relationships. It's structured by our surroundings. our interactions with others. As I talked about in Kassel quite a bit, the brain develops... from 400 grams to 1,000 grams from the last trimester to the 18 months or 24 months old. And that structure is not just genetic. It's developed through the nurturing relationship with the mother and sometimes the father.

[86:45]

If the mother lets the father... So I think in different cultures, different periods, we had really a different brain. Not completely different, but structured and different. The dynamic of it was different. The relationship between the parts is different. I think many people, many historians, for instance, have taken Freud's discovery of the unconscious It's like discovering that water is H2O.

[87:55]

Water has always been H2O. God decided that. And so some people have taken, well, there's always been an unconscious, and God decided that, or... So people go back and try to understand Greek times in terms of, oh the unconscious was really producing the myths and things. Freud, who was deeply influenced by Shakespeare, also tried to understand Shakespeare in terms of the unconscious. And sometimes in an interesting way and sometimes not successfully in my uninformed opinion.

[89:06]

But in any case, what am I saying here? Because certainly when you're in the mind of free associating, which is the fourth skandha, You do have things just appear. It's another kind of, we could say, it's not that it's chaotic, but it's not organized through conscious thinking. So that the kind of noticing and relationships and mentation that occurs It's a different mind than consciousness.

[90:41]

You can think of it as a, you know, only way I know how to give, is as a different liquid. So like when you wake up, you shift from the liquid that supports dreams and associative meditation. And when you become conscious, this is a different kind of liquid. And in this liquid, dreams sink out of sight. So my point is here that consciousness is a different mind than associative mentation, even though they both sometimes have words and thoughts and so forth.

[91:46]

But I'm also making the point by saying that maybe in the 12th, 13th century, the mind was differently structured. What I'm saying is I think that meditation was discovered as a way to restructure the mind. Because the mind is still plastic. not as plastic as the growing infant's brain, but as this real-time imaging seems to show, looking at the brain as it's actually functioning.

[92:52]

That the mother's brain is also structured as the baby's brain is structured in this relationship. And I think that even parallels to the Sangha and developing a secure trusting relationship within the Sangha and with the teacher And most profoundly, developing a secure, trusting, accepting relationship with yourself. what I call finding your seat, as a source of order and the fulfillment of aliveness.

[94:11]

It's not just a psychological experience or emotional experience. It's also a physiological experience. And I think you actually restructure or reorganize at least the biology of the brain. I believe that one restructures or at least reorganizes the biology of the brain. Okay. More? Yes. It means that if you believe that in the 12th century people had a different mind...

[95:22]

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