Good morning, everyone. Probably I made a mistake. I mean, when I talked about the Mazu or Basho's teaching of one mind, is a authentic mainstream Zen teaching, and 90HU, and Dogen didn't agree with that. with that theory. So I said I had a question if Dogen is a Zen master or not. Dogen was a Zen master or not. I think that is a mistake. I mean, I oversimplified. probably you got the impression that I said only Nanyo Echu and Dogen disagree with Mazu's teaching.

[01:06]

But I should have mentioned that Nanyo Echu's influence to the later Zen masters in China. That is But I think this is important. Let's see. Nanyo Echu, as I said, was one of the major disciples of Huinan, the Sixth Ancestor, and he practiced by himself in the mountain for 40 years, and he was invited by the Emperor, and became the Emperor's teacher. So he was a very well-known, respectable teacher, but he didn't have so many disciples.

[02:17]

And his lineage didn't form a school. But he only had, at least as I know, only one disciple. You know, 9UOHU. And his disciple's name is Tangen. I don't remember Chinese pronunciation. Tangen Oshin. And I don't know if Tangen has his own disciple or not, but no one is well-known. So that was kind of an end of his lineage. And 9UHO's dharma brothers are Seigen, Yoshi, I'm sorry, Seigen.

[03:24]

And Seigen was a teacher of Sekito in our lineage, Kisen. And Sekito's disciple was Yakuson. And another Dharma brother of Nanyo Echu and Seigen Gyoshi was Nangaku Ejo. And Nangaku's disciple was Baso, a Do'itsu, or Mazu. And Mazu had many disciples. It is said that he had about 80 Dharma Heirs. And one of the most important disciples of Baso was Hyakujo Ekai. And Hyakujo's disciple was... He had two major disciples.

[04:33]

One is Ogaku. And another is Isan. And Obaku's disciple was Rinzai. And Isan also has many disciples, Darumayas, but two important disciples were Gyōsan. Gyo-san, Ejaku. Gyo-san and Kyogen. Chikan. Gyo-san and Isan. Gyo-san was the major dharma heir of I-san. And I-san and Gyo-san's lineage was called Igyo-shu.

[05:36]

Shu means school. So this is the first of the five schools of Zen in China. So I-san and Gyo-san were very important. And another person, Kyogen Chikan, is known because of his way of attaining awakening. Dogen often mentions Kyogen. Kyogen was a very brilliant person. Kyogen originally practiced with Hyakujo Eikai. But probably because Hyakujo passed away, he came to Isan and practiced with Isan. So he was a very intellectual person. He knew everything. So Isan asked him, please tell something about Dharma without using any words you studied from sutras, or any text, or any persons.

[06:48]

So he tried to say something, but everything he can tell is what he studied. So he gave it up. And anyway, finally he left Isan Monastery and lived in the mountains. where this person, Nanyo Echu's grave located. So he became a kind of a caretaker of Nanyo's grave. And one time, he sweep the ground. He hit the stone, and that stone hit the bamboo. And the bamboo and stone made a sound. At that moment, when he heard the sound of stone hitting bamboo, he attained awakening.

[08:01]

That was a very famous story. And Dogen quoted that story in his Shobo Genzo Keisei Sanshoku, Sound of Valley Stream and Colors of Mountains. And that sound of bamboo, or sound of stone hitting bamboo, is one of the examples of unsentient expound dharma. So he finally found or awakened to the Dharma. Expanded, not in the text, using words and concepts, but within the actual reality of his life. So Kyogen has a relation with 908-jin. Probably he went there.

[09:03]

He respected Nanyo Echu. And another relation was Gyo-san, this person, Gyo-san. Gyo-san, when he was young and before he practiced with Isan, he practiced with Tangen. Nanyo Echu disciple. That is a connection between Nanyo Echu and I-san's lineage. And another connection, important to us, or to Dogen, is Don-shan. Don-shan is, Yakusan's disciple was Ungan, Donjo. And his disciple was Tozan, Ryokai. Tozan or Don Shan.

[10:07]

And Tozan was the founder of Chinese Soto Zen lineage. And when he was young, Tozan practiced with Isan. And another relation between between Tozan and Nanyo Echu was Tozan was born in the place where Nanyo was born. So they came from the same province. So probably Tozan felt a close connection with this Zen Master Nanyo Echu. And when Tozan practiced with Isan, somehow he asked a question to Isan that Nanyo had a teaching of in-sentient beings expanding Dharma.

[11:14]

Then Isan said, could you repeat what Nanyo Echo said? And Tozan repeated, decided exactly what Nanyo said in his conversation between that monk from the south about the incendent beings expanding Dharma. And Tozan asked Issan what this means. expanding in sentient beings, expanding dharma means. And Isan said something. Maybe he didn't say something. He did something. He did something and he asked, did you hear? He did something very simple.

[12:16]

Or he just kept silence. And Isan asked Tozan, did you hear? And he didn't. He said, I don't hear or I don't understand. And Tozan asked, is there someone who understands this point of Dharma in your lineage or in your assembly? And somehow, Isan said, there are few. He said, not many, but few people understood. But he recommended, Isan recommended, to visit Ungan. Ungan lived in a cave, I think. So he was not a well-known teacher, but somehow Isan recommended Tozan to visit Ungan.

[13:21]

That's why Tozan first visited his teacher, Ungan Donjo. And his question was, what is the incentive to beings expounding Dharma? And the story continues, but I don't have time to talk about that. but so Tozan's awakening. Enlightenment is about this point. So, through, you know, Taozang. Taozang is a very important ancestor in our lineage and also the founder of Soto school in China. So through Taozang, his teaching about the sentient beings expanding Dharma become part of Zen tradition. When he saw the reflection of himself on the water.

[14:35]

Yes. [...] And yes, that is the same person. That was the final... I don't know. Final or next to final. But when Tozan talked with Ungan, he had some understanding. And he said, in sentient beings, expanding Dharma was very wondrous. And when we hear it with our ear, we cannot hear. When we hear it with our eyes, we can hear it. You know, this means, you know, Eye and sound, eye and color or shape, and ear and sound are bounded.

[15:38]

Then we have a separation and interaction between eye and color and ear and sound. There is a separation between subject and object. But when we hear the sound with our eyes, there is no such separation and connection. There is no such separation between subject and object. That is how we can hear the Dharma expounded by the insentient beings. That means we need to be free from this, what is the word, hooking. Our sense organs and object of sense organs are somehow hooked. So when we see something with our eyes, we almost automatically think, I like this or I hate that.

[16:46]

When we hear the sound with our ear, the same thing happens. But what Tozan said is that we need to experience with such a kind of habitual or karmic way of responding to the object. thinking by the self-receiving samadhi that we chant during lunch, not lunch, but during the middle of the day, when it refers to the pebbles and the stones, it kind of refers to the statement of the sentient beings attending the Dharma. Is that correct?

[17:47]

Please. Within Zen tradition, he was the first person. Please. Yes. Yes. So I have to say, you know, that teaching of H. Nanyo Echu was part of Zen. So we need to say, you know, Mazu or Basho's teaching of one mind is, I think, still mainstream of Zen. But his teaching also became a part of Zen. And also, not only Nanyo to Tozan, but also in Tozan's lineage, for example, Sekito Kisen wrote Sandokai.

[19:03]

And Sekito wrote in Sandokai, and Basho's teachings are quite different. So probably not only Nanyo Echu, but Sekito has a different understanding about Dharma from, you know, Baso's One Mind Zen teaching. So Zen is not only one teaching, but Zen is a kind of a, how can I say, a collection of different kinds of teachings, and it's like a rope. That means, you know, this is not one school, but five schools of Zen, and people who belong to those five schools, you know, have interaction for many years. So, for example, the person who wrote the poem of Valley Stream,

[20:06]

was Su Shi. He was a very well-known poet in Song China. And when he wrote that poem of Sound of Valley Stream, he practiced with a Zen master. And that Zen master was Rinzai Zen master. So even in Rinzai tradition, they have this teaching. in sentient beings expanding Dharma. So this is not two separate schools, but they kind of mixed everything. masters or Zen teachers or Zen practitioners are not so much emphasis, so much emphasis on that kind of theoretical things. So they didn't, I think they didn't care about, you know, these two different kind of teaching mixed together.

[21:12]

But probably Dogen had very sensitive about this kind of difference in a logical way. So he tried to find the origin of, you know, this teaching that practice delusion and enlightenment within the relation between self and mere dharmas. Not simply, you know, when we stop thinking, the one dharma beyond thinking appears, and that is enlightenment. But Dogen said in Genjo-koan, you know, delusion and enlightenment is within the relation with self and myriad dharmas. And I think he tried to find the source of that teaching or understanding of Dharma.

[22:20]

And I think he found Nanyo Ichifu. I think that was the reality. So if you hear what I said as only Nanyo and Dogen disagreed with Baso, that was not true. Yeah. As Nanyo Echu had a conversation with a monk from the south, the teaching in the south, according to Nanyo Echu, is same as Seneca. Right? That's the difference. And Nyoetsu said, mind is not such a thing.

[23:23]

Such a, kind of a, like a, uh, numenon. Beyond phenomena. But, uh, you know, what Nyoetsu said is that mind is not numenon, but mind is fences, walls, tiles, and pebbles. That means each and every concrete, nothing special thing. That's the difference. OK? Please. I thought it was Matsu, but I might be wrong about a monk saying, I hear that you teach mindless Buddha. Why do you teach it that way or something? And he said it's like giving golden leaves to children to stop them from... That must, yes.

[24:24]

So then he says, what do you say when they stop crying? And he says, no mind, no Buddha? Right. That is Vassal. And another thing I have to say is Dogen never criticized Vassal. never criticized Baso himself as a person. And he sometimes quoted Baso's saying in a positive meaning. So we cannot say, you know, Dogen, how can I say, rejected that kind of teaching. So to me, how these two teachings could get together within one person in our discriminating mind, in my discriminating mind. So there must be something I cannot understand. So if you are interested in this point, please study Chinese Zen more deeply.

[25:30]

I don't read Chinese, and I didn't, I haven't studied Chinese zenteki so extensively, so I cannot say for sure, but I only studied Chinese zen in order to understand Dogen. So my understanding and what I'm saying is biased. So I hope someone can study Chinese Zen more extensively and deeply and try to figure out what is these two kind of, not a stream of people, but thinking or understanding of Dharma relate to each other. Please. Thanks for answering one more question. I appreciated what you said yesterday about the five sandhas are all that suffer, the five sandhas, not I, and also this teaching of consenting.

[26:42]

They tie together for me because they both make sense when I think deterministically. I know this is a big topic to bring up, but I just was wondering if there's anything wrong with that, or if I'm missing something that just, this is a very kind of mechanistic view of ourselves as just causes and conditions, and there's nothing else. Is that okay? Sure. Please. Is the mind that we speak of, is the one mind in Yogacara? One mind teaching is not Yogacara. Okay. Is the one mind we're speaking of more fundamental than alaya, the eight consciousness? You mean alaya? Alaya consciousness. Is it more fundamental than that?

[27:46]

One mind, you mean? One mind in Tathagatagarbha theory? Is the storehouse consciousness conditioned? Because what I'm hearing is that the one-mind Tathagatagarbha is not conditioned. Yes. In Yogacara's teachings, you know, the truth, reality, or Tathātā is beyond our consciousness. So it's beyond the storehouse consciousness? Yeah, so we cannot reach. But in Tathāgatagarbha they said, they thought this Tathātā or the ultimate reality or ultimate truth works within the phenomenal world. as a manifestation of that thing.

[28:49]

So, to follow up, non-sentient beings are therefore expressions of the One Mind, special cases of the One Mind when they communicate Dharma. Yeah, all those phenomenal beings came from the One Mind. That is their teachings. So this phenomenal world in which everything is coming and going, appear and disappear, is not the real reality. Reality is beyond that. Nothing allows nothing perish. Indra's net, in my expression, the network of interdependent origination in which everything is connected with everything.

[30:08]

This is a phenomenal world. In this understanding of Dharma, there is no such phenomenon. And I don't think Dogen mentioned about this kind of one mind beyond the phenomenal world. In his teaching, everything is phenomenal. There is nothing beyond the phenomenal world. So, what he is talking about is interconnectedness of all beings. Therefore, each and every being has no fixed self-nature. So, we are living and existing together with all beings within phenomenal world. That's all. And Dogen never said, this is the, how can I say, this came from that noumenon.

[31:09]

Do you think Dogen said there's nothing beyond the phenomenal world? I think not only Dogen, but Buddha also said, Buddha also talked only about the phenomenal world. The deathless, the refuge, the unassailable, the many, many words he used to describe the state. Are you saying that's the phenomenal world? When Buddha or Nagarjuna talks about nothing arises, nothing perishes, that means because there is no fixed being. So we cannot say this arises. I was born 67 years ago, but father is born if there is no such fixed entity as shohak. Only five skandhas get together and stay for a while, and it's past.

[32:18]

Nothing is born, and nothing dies. That is what emptiness means. So Buddha or Nagarjuna or Prajnaparamita never said, you know, there's something which doesn't arise, doesn't change, beyond the phenomenal world of arising and perishing. If you understand the Heart Sutra, arising and perishing, there is something which doesn't arise and perish beyond this phenomenal world, then I think that is not a correct understanding of the Heart Sutra. But if you say something, then it's talking about phenomena. So it's saying there's nothing phenomenal beyond the phenomenal. Nothing phenomenal beyond the phenomenal. What I'm saying is, Buddha did use these words like the deathless, the refuge, etc., etc., etc.

[33:20]

I think I heard you say he's talking about a phenomenological state. He's not actually talking about something beyond the phenomenal world. He's not talking about something indescribable or anything like that? Something beyond this phenomenal world. Something beyond this phenomenal world. He's not? No. In my understanding. So suchness does not occur apart from phenomena? No. Suchness is how phenomenal beings are. So we can't speak of suchness beyond phenomena? No. In my understanding. But in some people's understanding, it's different. So, in the Bodhisattva Sutra, when we talk about millions and millions of Buddhas everywhere, etc., is that just a fantastical imagination? I think so.

[34:42]

I don't think Dogen believed all those Buddhas are really there. Because Dogen said Buddha is only one, Shakyamuni as a person. All the Buddhas, like Dharmakaya Buddhas, like Vairochana, or other Sambhogakaya Buddha was produced by to understand who Shakyamuni really was. So I think Dogen knew, you know, all other Buddhas are kind of image produced based on Shakyamuni's teaching and presence. So there aren't these invisible bodhisattvas in this room helping us. Sometimes you get that feeling when people talk. But that's not the case.

[35:46]

There are these invisible bodhisattvas who are always aiding us. That is an expression of, you know, we are connected with all beings throughout time and space. So each and every being at the present moment within this space And all beings in the past and all beings in the future are actually connected with what we are doing in this moment. And all Buddhas in ten directions and three times, Ji, Ho, San, Shi, Shi, Fu, and Shi, Hon, Bu, Sa, Mo, Ko, Sa means we are together when we are eating or when we chant. we are together with all those beings. That is my understanding. I don't think Dogen really think those buddhas and those sattvas as individual people are existing somewhere.

[36:57]

That's such a relief to hear. Avoided the lotus sutra. It's sort of like beyond that So I think that is the reason Shunran said we should read, study, and understand the Lotus Sutra as our self-mind, or jishin. And Dogen said to study the Buddha way is to study the self. We don't need to believe the fact is written in the Lotus Sutra is all historically true or actual fact. You know, if we need to believe such a thing, everything written in the sutras is historically true, you know, we become crazy.

[38:06]

Yes? Would it be wise to look at the development of these ideas of these, you know, invisible bodhisattvas or beings that are apart clinging and sticking. I would say interconnected with everything. Because there is no such fixed entity called shohaku within five skandhas. Five skandhas is just a collection of different elements. And they are coming and going. You know, even our body is changing. Something new comes in, like water or food, and it becomes a part of our body, and something old goes out.

[39:11]

So this is cycling. So there is no such fixed body and mind named shohak. But this is, in Buddhist teaching, this is like a waterfall. There is no such thing as a waterfall as a fixed entity. Waterfall is a collection of the shape of the ground, earth, and water. And water is always changing, always new. And our life is the same. There is a certain system and all our energy is running, flowing, and that's all. That means there is no fixed entity, separate or independent from other beings.

[40:15]

It means we are connected with all beings. And those kind of images of bodhisattvas and buddhas throughout time and space is an expression of this understanding or awakening to everything is connected with everything throughout time and space. Does this make sense? I don't understand what mystical means. There's no such things in Buddhism. Mystics is a Western word.

[41:17]

In my understanding, Mystic means the truth or reality cannot be expressed using words and thinking, concept. That's the meaning of mystic, to be mystical. My understanding of this word, to be mystic or to be... is the truth or reality cannot be expressed, understood and expressed using words and concepts. Is that fact to be mystical means? Then that is a part of Buddhist teaching. where truth or reality cannot be reached and freely expressed using words and concepts. That is part of Buddhist teaching. And yet, as, you know, Shakyamuni and the Lotus Sutra and all the Zen centers including, Zen masters including Dogen, they always try to express

[42:30]

that they experienced using words and concepts. And at least Dogen, some Zen masters were almost like mystics. But at least Dogen put very much emphasis on expression using words and letters. You know, one of the fascicles of Shōbō Genzo is dōtoku. Dōtoku means, what is dō? Dō is speaking and saying, and toku is to be able to. And in that fascicle, Dogen basically says, if we experience something, until we can express that experience using words, it's not a real, true experience.

[43:33]

So for him, using words, expressing using words, is really important. In that sense, Dogen is not a mystic. Does it make sense? Please. His language could be mystic. His language can be mystical. I think to be mystical means beyond language. Those are poetic expressions, but I'm not sure whether to be poetic and to be mystical is the same thing. So the reality itself is beyond words and letters and concept.

[45:11]

But Dogen said we have to express using words and letters. We need to express the reality and also our experience of reality by using words and letters. And he said that's possible. That is possible. To express the reality beyond thinking, beyond words and letters, using words and letters. Is it to be mystical means? If you say so. The point of the inexpressible, I think, is what we're talking about. What do I think of the point of the inexpressible? But for example, not Dogen, but Ryokan, you know, we usually think words is like a finger, and reality is the moon beyond words. But Dogen said, I'm sorry, not Dogen, but Ryokan said, this finger is a part of the moon.

[46:25]

Beside the moon, there is no such thing as a finger. So it's not so simple. I'd like to return to Dogen's Hokete Hoke. But an actual experience like the yana darshana we're talking about, an experience of insight into the truth directly without your mind, is mystical. There isn't anything beyond the phenomenon. That applies within conventional reality or duality, but it doesn't apply within non-duality. Well, conventional reality and ultimate reality, or conventional truth and ultimate truth... Duality and non-duality?

[47:37]

That is two ways of seeing one reality. It's not there are two worlds. Phenomenal world and the ultimate phenomenal world. Yes. So these are two ways to seeing one reality. And this one reality is phenomenal reality. Right? Okay. Really? Well, he expressed his experience using words, talking of body and mind. And to me, this is five skandhas simply being five skandhas.

[48:38]

It's not something special. If mystical experience means something special, beyond what we usually experience in our daily lives, then I don't think Dogen's experience of dropping of body and mind is something special. But he found everything we do, and each time we sit in Zazen, the King of Thought, this is dropping of body and mind. Originally, this expression, dropping of body and mind, or shinjin natsuraku, was Dogen's teacher's expression, not Dogen's. And when Dogen asked, what is the meaning of dropping of body and mind, before that, His teacher, Nyojo, said, Zen practice sanzen, Zen practice, practice zen, is dropping off body and mind. Then Dogen asked Nyojo, what is dropping off body and mind?

[49:44]

And Nyojo said, dropping off body and mind is zazen. So not a special, some kind of special condition within zazen, but zazen is itself dropping off body and mind. That is what Tendo Nyojo and Dogen, I think, is saying. So I'm not sure if this is mystical or not. It can be mystical. All our experience is mystical. It's not happening within our thinking. But that is not some kind of a special experience only special people could experience. We keep using the word experience and now I think you're using it a lot too, which I don't think you use that word usually. I'm wondering if there is a better word for us to understand a Japanese translation of that word.

[50:47]

I just read a translation of the word experience to its origin, has at its base the word perilous. The word experience means to go through something perilous or dangerous, that we go through. And I wonder if our association, using that for mystical, we're going through something beyond beyond. But that, for Dogen, that word would not, that would not be a word that he would use. It's just dropping off. It's not going through the turmoil or danger of dropping off. You mean shinjin tatsuraku, or dropping of body and mind? Yes, or anything that we're grasping for in terms of mystical means to go through something dangerous perhaps. To be mystical is to be dangerous. Yes, I think that's why we keep saying mystical experience because the root of the word experience is danger, peril.

[51:52]

But probably it's not used in Japanese. Long question is I'm asking you if there's a better word than experience in the Japanese or how would that be translated to bring us down to earth? That's dark. I'm not sure. But it's a good word. If experienced. Experienced means something happening. Right? How would you translate it in Japanese? This English word, experience? If you were even going to use it. Because I don't think that you have used it very much. Except you're using it a lot now. That English word, experience? But we're linking it with mystical again and again.

[52:58]

I understand why it's a problem. Well, I think experience is not something special, but everything we go through, everything happening in our life is experience. Even thinking about our experience is something we are experiencing. So I don't think experience is something special or something, how can I say, something which happens rarely. But everything happening within our life, I think, ordinary things, is experiences. I think the use of seeing is a miracle. The five skandhas as miracles in themselves, whereas miracles ordinarily we

[53:59]

are thought of as some intervention, some special intervention. And the fact that Buddhism kind of excludes special powers, it doesn't cultivate them or give them a special place, even though they're acknowledged as something that people can develop. Does this make sense? I'm not sure. I'm sorry. Please. I'm sorry. I think so. In order to share what we experience and what we discover, what we awaken to.

[55:25]

You know, that is Buddha's problem. How he could express what he experienced under the Bodhi tree to share the same experience... I'm sorry. Same awakening with other people. In order to do so, he needed to translate what he experienced to the language, I think, using language. Even all Buddhists, including Shakyamuni, think the reality itself is beyond our thinking and wording. Still, we need to use thinking and language to share this reality.

[56:25]

What about art? Well, you know, there are many Zen art, and that is an expression of their awakening. So it's possible, and often, not often, but almost all of the masters use composing poems, including Dogen. So that is how they express and share the same awakening with other people and allow other people to experience the same thing. I'm reminded of a poem that Dogen wrote. I didn't memorize it, but to paraphrase. Language expresses the Dharma but does not exhaust it. Exhaust it. does not exhaust it.

[57:28]

It's more than... So no language expression is complete, perfect. So we need to develop more and more. Is it possible to express the Dharma, besides expressing it in words, is it possible to express it He has to say, is it painting, or is it dance, or is it music? I think so. And, you know, Zazen is one of that kind of expression, I think. And even making prostration, or doing gassho, or eating, using Oryoki, everything can be expression, I think. Can I return to Dogen's text?

[58:37]

This is the fourth day, right? More than half of this retreat is over, and we are still in the stage of introduction. So, I think yesterday I finished talking about Huinan's poem about being turned by the Dharma flower and turning the Dharma flower. So, we are still talking about the conversation between Huinan and his disciple father. But I think I have to be a little bit in a hurry to finish this text. So, paragraph 11. It's page 6 in my version.

[59:47]

Let me read paragraph 6. Upon hearing the verse, Father addressed the ancestor again, saying, the sutra says that even if all the greatest shiravakas and bodhisattvas thought and tried to fathom it with all their mind, they could never grasp Buddha's wisdom. Now you are leading ordinary people to nothing other than a realization of their own minds, and are calling it the Buddha's insight. Unless we have superior capacity, we cannot help doubting and slandering you. Also, the sutra mentions Three kinds of carriages. What is the difference between the great ox cart and the white ox cart?

[60:53]

Master, please give me your explanation once more. So, Huinan said, we should study Buddha's insight or Buddha's darshana as our own mind. That means not only Buddha's mind, but each one of us has a mind. So we have to study and realize that mind. Our mind, not Buddha's mind. So this question is about that statement. The question is, you know, the Sutra, the Lotus Sutra says, you know, even those great suravakas, great disciples of Buddha could not understand this Buddha's darshan.

[62:00]

Shakyamuni said, only Buddha together with Buddha, you know, they could fathom or penetrate this Buddha's darshan. But Hunan said we should see our minds, our ordinary mind. How is such a thing possible? How can we see the Buddha darshan, Buddha's insight, by seeing our mind? You know, we are deluded beings. That was one question. That is, in the second sentence, you are leading ordinary people to nothing other than a realization of our own minds, and according it is the Buddha's insight. So, Hinan said, to see our mind is to see Buddha's darshana.

[63:03]

Why is such a thing possible? And another question is, you know, First, this is in the third chapter of the Lotus Sutra, said those three vehicles refer to Shravaka vehicle, Pratyekabuddha vehicle, and Bodhisattva vehicles. And Mahayana people said Shravaka and Pratyekabuddha are small vehicles. And our Vajrasattva vehicle is Mahayana, that means large vehicle. But they are all in a burning house. of the samsara. And Buddha asked, Buddha kind of asked them to get out of that, from that burning house.

[64:08]

To do so, because they, those children, are enjoying praying within the burning house, Buddha said, if you get out, I will give you better toys you can enjoy. And those are those three vehicles. And because of that teaching from Shakyamuni, or the father, those children playing in the burning house get out. And those children ask, give me, give me those toys. Then somehow, they didn't find any of those toys. But the father, or Buddha, only gave the one big carriage pulled by the white ox. So those three vehicles, or three toys, are not real things.

[65:15]

But the only thing Buddha gave to all living beings, all the children, came out of the burning house is this one big cart pulled by this white ox. So the question is, what is the difference between this Bodhisattva viku and one Buddha viku? And this is a kind of an important question in Chinese Buddhism. Some Chinese masters who studied Lotus Sutra think the Mahayana or Bodhisattva yantra within the three vehicles and the large vehicle, one vehicle teaching, Buddha's vehicle, is the same.

[66:19]

Both are Mahayana teaching. But some masters said those, you know, those sort of vehicles within the three vehicles and one Buddha vehicle are different. And in Tendai tradition, because of Tendai Chi-I said those are different vehicles. So there are four vehicles instead of three. That means the Bodhisattva vehicle within three vehicles are kind of, as I talked before, kind of criticizing those two-vehicle people. So in that sense, the Bodhisattva vehicle within three vehicles are separate from two vehicles. and they say, our vehicle is better than yours.

[67:23]

In that sense, in that voice of a vehicle, two other vehicles are excluded. So that is not really one vehicle. So one vehicle needs to include all those three vehicles. That's why the voice of a vehicle in three vehicles are different from one to the vehicles. That is the conclusion in Tendai tradition. and Dogen studied Buddhism within ten-day tradition. So that is Dogen's understanding. Anyway, that is the point of this person's question to Huinan. Then Huinan gave the answer. The ancestor, Huinan, said, The meaning in the sutra is clear.

[68:30]

You have confused yourself and fallen into doubt. That means, you know, in the older version of the same conversation, Huenan said to this person's father, that father means dharma penetration, and Huenan said to this person, dharma is penetrated, but only your mind is confused. Your mind is not penetrated. This is the same thing. So there's no... that question is only your problem. It's not the problem of the Dharma itself. And Hunan continues. When all those in the three vehicles, including bodhisattva vehicles, fail to fathom the Buddha's wisdom, the problem lies in their measuring and discriminating. Measuring and discriminating is 道量.

[69:33]

Both to measure and 道 is a kind of a degree. You know, for example, the Japanese word for temperature is 温度. 温度 is a Japanese word for temperature. So 度 means degree of, 温 means warmness. So 温度 or temperature means the degree of how warm it is. Anyway, so do-ryo means to measure things. So, what Hyoina is saying is they couldn't understand the Buddha's darshana because they are thinking and measuring. Even if they join effort, thinking and servicing together to their utmost,

[70:55]

they will go further and further astray from the Buddha's wisdom. So this is kind of a criticism against those teachers who discussed about what is written in the sutras. So scholars or people in the teaching schools, from their point of view, no matter how much we discuss and think, and how much, how can I say, write about what this means, you know, we cannot reach the reality itself. So in that sense, this part of Buddhism is like a mystic, mystical. Reality cannot be reached with words and letters, or thinking, and concept, or discrimination.

[71:58]

But still they use a lot of words and letters. They mean Buddhist. I didn't understand what you said right before, they mean Buddhist. What did I say? You know, this part is like to be mystical. Is that after that or before that? I said, but they use, they mean, Buddhists use a lot of words. A lot of... I'm sorry. Yeah. So the more we think, the more we get far from that reality. The Buddha originally expanded the three vehicles only for the sake of ordinary people.

[73:01]

He didn't expand them for the sake of Buddhas. This is the answer to the question, why to realize our mind can be Buddha's darshana. Dogen, not Dogen, but Shoyanai is saying Buddha taught to ordinary beings. He didn't teach to Buddhas. So Buddha is talking about our mind. Our reality of our life. Not someone beyond ordinary living beings. So to study and awaken to the real reality of our life. including our mind, is Buddha's darshana. So Buddha's darshana is not beyond our mind. So to really see and understand our mind, then that is Buddha's insight.

[74:05]

Expound. Expound Setsu means to express, explain, or to sometimes translate as to preach, to talk about. So what the Lotus Sutra is saying, or what Buddha said in the Lotus Sutra, is about the mind or life of our ordinary beings. And Huinan said, some of them, probably you are one of them, not believing this principle,

[75:10]

left their seat in the assembly, like 5,000 people, that's okay, if you want to leave, just leave. Still, they did not know that while sitting in the white ox carriage, they were looking for the three kinds of carriage outside the gate. That means even those people who left Those 5,000 people who left the assembly are still in this vehicle. So even if you doubt this, and you don't believe this, and you blame me, still you are within the big vehicle. So no one can be excluded. Even we say, I'm not there, still you are there. Because the sutra clearly states that there are neither two nor three carriages, only one.

[76:18]

So even we reject, you know, I don't care about three vehicles. I have my own vehicles. But still, such people are still included in this vehicle. And next, about the three vehicles, the same or difference between the Bodhisattva Yāna and the one Buddha vehicle. The three kinds of carriages are expedient means. because they were expanded in the past. One vehicle is real because it belongs to the present. This past and present, I think, means what is said in Chapter 2. of the Lotus Sutra as a skillful means.

[77:28]

You know, when Buddha talks about how he made the skillful means, or talks about three vehicles as a skillful means, when he said something like, He said, the reason, not he, but this is Buddha, the reason why the Tathagata appears is for preaching the Buddha wisdom, this Buddha darshana, the real teaching of one bhikkhu. Buddha wisdom now is the very time, Buddha said. Now is the very time, means so far I have been talking about the skillful means, talking about three vehicles as a skillful means.

[78:34]

But now, he said, now is the very time I have to talk about one Buddha vehicle. So I stopped talking about three vehicles. Now is the time. The similar thing is said a little after this. In the same fashion that the Buddha's past, present and future preach the Dharma, so also will I now proclaim the undivided law, undivided Dharma. It means three vehicles are divided. Undivided Dharma is one vehicle. So now is the time I need to expound this one vehicle beyond any separation.

[79:37]

I think what Huna is talking about this time, now, and what he meant now is not only At that time, Shakyamuni said this on the Vulture Peak. But, you know, now, this moment, whenever it is, this moment is the time we see the undivided Dharma. This is the only time. We don't need to think about the past. This is the time we have to see or awaken to and revise Dharma. Page 74. So I am only trying to make you leave behind expedient means

[80:45]

or skillful means, that is three vehicles. And return to the real, means one undivided, absolute reality or truth. And when we return to reality, reality is not a mere name. That means name can be forgotten. You know, this name is still a name. That means truth or reality or genuine is still dualistic. Truth is relative with false. And absolute is relative with relativity. And one vehicle is relative with three vehicles. So when we return to this one undivided dharma, we can forget about this even this word of truth or reality or absolute or one vehicle.

[82:00]

Just be there. You should know that all beings, without exception, are rare treasures, and they all belong to you. Let me read a few more sentences. Receiving and making use of them is up to you. It is neither the father's thought nor the thinking of the children, and there is no thought of using it. This is why it is called the Dharma Flower Sutra. From kalpa to kalpa, from day to night, even when we are not holding the sutra in our hands, there is no time when we are not reciting it. You know, this father, this treasure, Huenan said, everything, all beings, without exception, are rare treasures.

[83:12]

What is this treasure? Of course, it means everything is treasure. Everything is precious. And they all belong to you. you know, probably this came from the parable appeared in the fourth chapter, chapter four of the, you know, the pure rich father and a poor son who left father's home and wandered here and there and he had a very difficult time And he returned to his father's home, and his father, as an expedient means, gave him a job working to clean the dirties. And father encouraged him to work diligently.

[84:16]

And the son worked for his father for 20 years. And he learned more and more important jobs and right before his father passed away his father said this is my son and all the treasures or wealth I have is him from now. Then the son said even though I didn't expect this treasure house is open and come to me. That is the story. So this treasure means the poor son's treasure inherited from his father. But until then, he didn't think his father's wealth is his own.

[85:21]

even though he works for keeping his father's wealth as a servant or a manager. But he didn't think that those wealth was his own. But then father said, you are my dear son, so all the wealth I have is yours. That is what I think Huy Nguyen is talking about. So the treasure, all the treasures owned by Buddha is ours. And this means, I think, in our life, this treasure means this entire network of interdependent origination. And as Uchamaru said, when we are born, we are born together with our entire world.

[86:25]

And when we are living, we live together with all beings within this entire world. And when we die, we die together with all beings within this entire world. So this entire world in which we are part of this interconnectedness, is this person's wealth. Of course, not only my wealth, but everyone. Everyone of us lives together with the entire world. So we are the owners of this entire network. That means You know, this is a network of interdependent origination, or Indra's net. We are part of this thread, or knot, and everything is connected with everything.

[87:34]

And the only thing actually there is a relation of the thread. There is no such independent entity called a knot. Not is how all different states get together and works. That is our life, our personal life. So there is no such fixed entity called shohaku. But only thing is the elements, all different kind of elements. So there is no such individual self or entity. That is what no self means. And because there is no such individual entity, the only thing there is is relation or connection. Because of that, this entire network is the self. Does this make sense? So the self is this entirety of interconnectedness.

[88:38]

So this entire network is me. and everything in there is my son or children. That is what Buddha said. This entire three-dimensional world is myself, and all beings within that world are my children. That is what Buddha said. And I think not only Buddha, but each one of us is the same. This is myself. And all beings within this interconnectedness is me. So, as a center of this interconnectedness, I have responsibility to keep this in harmony, in a healthy condition. Not only this individual body and mind, but we have to at least try to, or make effort,

[89:42]

to make this interconnectedness in a healthy and harmonious condition. That is our practice as a bodhisattva. Please. Roshi, in the ten suchnesses, number five through nine are relationships. Number one through five Uniqueness. Uniqueness. So, is that... but you were just saying that it's all a relationship. So, what is number one through five in the context of this? That is, you know, form and function and nature, etc. You know, each knot has different shape, different condition. different nature, different form, different energy. So I am a collection of all different elements, and you are a collection of different elements.

[90:49]

So each knot, even though there is only a connection or a relation, but because of that, each knot is different, unique. Unique aggregation. Because I was born in Japan, my English is strange. I'm thinking in Japanese and speaking in English. This is my uniqueness. This is my karma. And you have different karmas. So we are each different. And yet, we are connected with all beings. The way, you know, the way connected, or what kind of element are connected is different. That is the uniqueness of each being, I think. Okay? Please? Just that net you described might contain change, but it just sounds exactly like Atman, or everything we were discussing yesterday.

[91:59]

Well, probably you have that question because I draw this circle. Actually, this circle is not there. In order to show this is a net, like an Indora's net, I wrote this circle, but actually there is no such circle. You know, the idea of Indra's net appears in the Avatamsaka Sutra. The sutra says that Indra has a palace and Indra has a beautiful ornament of net. That is what Indra's net means. has infinite throughout time and space.

[93:15]

That means even though this Indra's net is placed in Indra's palace, but Indra's palace is part of this net. And infinite means there is no such boundary inside and outside. there you think there is a boundary and this entirety is reality, then we could interpret this is a Brafman, right? Or Atman. But so important point is we need to erase this circle. Only relation are there. I think even this entire universe is a part of something larger.

[94:19]

I don't think this universe has a boundary. Does this make sense? Well, it's already 1135. Anyway, what Shunran is saying here is, we are not a father, we are not a child. There is no such separation, even between father and child. And even we cannot say, I use this, or I own these treasures. But we are part of the treasures. So, from kalpa to kalpa, means, kalpa to kalpa is long, period of time, and day to night is our day to day, you know, usual length of time we can handle, in which we are living.

[95:27]

So that means always. Even when we are not holding the sutras in our hands, this means Lotus Sutra, there is no time when we are not reciting it. That means even when we don't read this particular sutra, we are reciting the sutra. Does it make sense? I think so. Even when we don't read We are still reading. Please. In the line where it says you should know that all beings without exception are rare treasures and they all belong to you, is the father speaking to the son as returned.

[96:30]

And then receiving and making use of them is up to you. And then the next line, there is no thought of using it. Receiving and making use of them is up to you. How are we to understand that? Is that the father speaking to the child? I think she's not speaking to this person, this monk. So you're not speaking to the father saying receiving and making use of them is up to you? I think with you is father. Hinayana is talking to the Father and everything is your possession. Whether you make this samsara or nirvana is up to you. Whether you use this as the place to fulfill our personal desire or to make this place as a practice place to offer or to make offering or contribution to help others.

[97:38]

It's up to really you. So, how are we to understand the next line where it says, and there is no thought of using it? Actually, there's no such separation between owner and possessions. So we cannot say, I use this because I am a part of that treasure. So actually there is no possession and no person who possesses. I think that is what Q9 is saying here. Can I read one, two more paragraphs and end this conversation? It's not important, I think. Having received this edification, Father jumped with joy and presented this verse of praise.

[98:42]

So finally he understood, and he wrote his own verse. 3,000 recitations of the sutra have disappeared with a single phrase from Kaoshi. Kaoshi means Huinan. So he said, I have been reciting the Rota Sutra 3,000 times, but because of Huinan's teaching, I forget everything. unless we clarify the meaning of Buddha's appearance in the world. That is what Shonan said. Buddha's appearance in the world is when we practice. How can we end the madness accumulated over many lifetimes? So, become free from our karmic delusion. You know, we have to see who we really are. Then the sutra made up the expedient of sheep, deer, and ox carriages, kama, prismatic kama, as I said before, to be well lifted up to the higher level of meaning, early, middle, and late.

[99:59]

That means, you know, there are the kind of process Buddha taught. First, three vehicles, or two vehicles, and three vehicles. And finally, one vehicle, one great vehicle. That is beginning, middle, and late, or end. All express this reality of interconnectedness. So, who is aware that even within the burning house, originally the Dharma King is there? So, as I said in the very first lecture, the basic problem is the duality between worldly Dharma in which we are transmigrating within six realms and nirvana, where we are free from or beyond the transmigration or beyond duality.

[101:14]

How can we go beyond this duality, between duality and beyond duality? And what this monk said is, there's no such division or separation between burning house, that is samsara, and out of burning house is nirvana. But he says, king of dharma, dharma king is there within, right within burning house. That is how he understood the oneness or non-duality. So there's no such two separate places called samsara and nirvana, or duality and non-duality. But we need to see nirvana right within samsara, and we need to see non-duality right within duality.

[102:27]

That is, I think, the understanding of this monk father when he received the teaching from Huinan. Well, I hope you... Well, one more sentence. Being presented this verse, that my ancestor said, from now on you can be called the sutra-reciting monk. So you keep reciting the sutra, but not only with his mouth. I'm sorry, I talked too long.

[103:14]

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