Good afternoon. This morning I talked on the last two sentences on page one, and now I continue from the beginning of page two in this English-only version. Let me read a few paragraphs. This being so, when we study the supreme answer possible to awakening, that is, anuttara-sameksambodhi, when we hear the teachings, do practice, and verify the result, It is profound, far-reaching, and wondrous. We hear of this supreme awakening, sometimes following a teacher, and sometimes following the sutras.

[01:12]

At the beginning, it sounds like, do not do any evil. If we don't hear, do not do any evil. It is not the true dharma of Buddha. It must be a suggestion of demons. We should know that what Fritz says, do not do any evil, is the true dharma of Buddha. This saying, to not do any evil, is not set up in this way through fabrication of ordinary human beings. When we hear the awakening in the form of verbal teachings, we hear in this way. If we hear this way, that is the utterance of supreme awakening, using words. Since this is already the utterance of awakening, these words are themselves awakening.

[02:22]

Upon hearing of the utterance of the supreme awakening, being turned by this utterance, we wish not to do any evil and keep practicing not to do any evil. When any evil is going on not being done, the strength of practice is immediately manifested. This manifestation shows itself in an amount equal to the entire earth, the entire world, all times and all beings. The measurement of the amount is not doing. In the case of such a person at such a time, even though dwelling in and coming and going where evil deeds can be done, facing the conditions in which evil deeds can be done, and interacting with companions who may do evil deeds,

[03:37]

No evil deeds are ever done because the power of not doing is manifested. Evil deeds do not express themselves as evil deeds, and evil deeds have no fixed devices. There is a principle of once upholding and once letting go. At this very moment, we can understand the principle that evil deeds do not invade people and the principle that people do not destroy evil deeds. Maybe this is enough. The first paragraph of this section that is a kind of an introduction, how can I say, Dogen Denji points out from which position he discusses about good and evil.

[05:06]

I'm sorry, in this case, not doing evil. said his position is awakening our anuttara samyaksha body. That means in which everything is completely equal. We are living within the network of interdependent origination. And within that space, we are connected with everything. And as Dogen said, in Uji, or being and time, this network of interdependent origination is moving.

[06:13]

And from the very beginning until the end of this time, this is one time or one moment. Within this one moment, time looks to us who are inside. Time is flowing from past to present to the future. But in this present moment is the gateway or entrance of this time which doesn't move. That is only one moment from the very beginning. the time of Big Bang until the end of this world. This is really one moment. We kind of divide the time because it's convenient for us to measure one day, one second, one hour, one day, one week, one month, one year, and so on.

[07:26]

That is a kind of man-made separation. But time itself has no such separation. So time doesn't really move. But to us who is changing because of impermanence, To understand the change, it's kind of convenient to use the idea of time flowing in order to understand the degree of change. So we count our age, you know, one year, two years, three years old, and now I'm 57. That means I don't have much time left. You know, the time I spent is larger than the time I may live. We don't know, but that is how we measure our life, in permanence.

[08:30]

But actually this one entire space, just one space, there's no such division between this place and that place. We use such separation or division because it's convenient to understand where I am and where they are. All that kind of separation is made up within our mind. But as a reality, this space is just one space. And this network of interdependent origination is one entire network. And entire time and space is just one thing. And each one of us is part of this, you know,

[09:35]

time and space. This is how, you know, and within time we have connection, each and everything has connection or relations as a cause and result, cause and result. And within the space we have a connection with other conditions and recompense or reward. But we receive support and help, and we also offer support and help to other beings. How this network is maintained, and that is what Dogen Zenji said, That means total function or total dynamic work.

[10:41]

That is catagoristic expression. And according to the Lotus Sutra, that is how, that is so-called Buddha's darsana or Buddha's insight of the reality of all beings. And an individual person like us, we cannot see this totality because we are inside. as a person walking, coming and going with the mountain, cannot see the true face of the mountain. Because we need to take certain position, we cannot see this totality as something like objective. So we need a kind of a faith.

[11:44]

that this totality, this total function is our body. That is what Wanshi Zenji said in his poem, following Sushi's poem. Sushi said, because he is in the mountain, he cannot see the true face of mountain. But Wanshi said, a person who is coming and going with the mountain, the mountain is the person's body. So it's not a matter of person can see the true face or mountain or not. But important point is this entire mountain, this is the mountain, is his body. So we should live with such an attitude to live together with all beings within time and space. And Dogen Zenjin also composed a poem following Wanshi's poem.

[12:50]

And he said, the person in the mountain should be a person who loves the mountains. And the person is coming and going within the mountains. And the mountain is his body. But he said, the mountain is not the self. There's no such thing as called self. Anyway, so, you know, that is why we, you know, for example, doing morning service, not only morning, but doing service and we chant something and we recite echo or dedication to dedicate the merit of this practice to certain people, and not only the people who are named within Eko, we say, you know, Ji Ho San Shi Shi Fu Shi Son Bu Sa Mo Ko Sa Mo Ko Ho Ja Ho Lao Mi.

[13:59]

That is, all Buddhas in ten directions and three times. Ten directions means this entire space, and three times means this entire time. and all Buddhas and all Buddhas within this time and space. And the Sisonbosa Mokosa is a bodhisattva who is practicing within, wherever, within this time and space. And the Prajnaparamita, Mokho Hoja Horomi, is the way to see, not way, but wisdom, to see this entirety of sunyata, interdependent origination of sunyata. And as he mentioned this reality of all beings in the introduction of Fushiko Hanpo, Fushiko Hanpo is a description of how to use oryoki, how to receive a food.

[15:08]

Eating can be also the practice of awakening this reality of total function or total dynamic work. And we express our gratitude to this network of interdependent ordination. And actually that is Buddha. And practice with that attitude or practice of expressing the awakening of this reality is without practice. So that is why, you know, for example, Sakyo said, our practice is good for nothing. It's not good for something. When we say good for, this is good, that is good for me, basically, or good for us.

[16:09]

But if it is good for this entire function, we can say it's good for nothing. And that's okay. So, you know, this is the reality of all beings and also this awakening to this reality is anuttasannaksambodhi, to see entire everything is really equal. That equal is toh, or the equality of the same. in Samyak Sam Bodhi. Samyak is true equality or sameness or identity. So this total function, total, our entire network is so-called Anuttara Samyak Sam Bodhi.

[17:13]

And next he discuss how we study and practice regarding good and bad within this total function or total dynamic work of interdependent origination. This being so means we are living as part of this entire network. When we study the supreme unsurpassable to awakening, that is an anterosomal somebody, when we hear the teachings, we hear the teachings about this reality, And when we hear the teaching and we feel it might be true or it can be helpful for me, we try to put that teaching into practice.

[18:24]

and we verify the result. That means through our practice we really find this teaching is true. That is verification. So teaching, practice and verification is a kind of process of our practice. And not only us, but all beings are actually practicing this teaching, practice and verification. And in doing so, it is profound, far-reaching and wondrous. It's really profound for other kind of other individual, one person within this, you know, boundless network to, you know, this is just an illustration.

[19:30]

This is not true. This is not a real reality. So if we, you know, copy, you know, this This, you know, poor illustration, I think this is a reality that's really totally delusion. We cannot see such a thing, and there's no such, you know, boundary. You know, this circle is really an illusion. There's no such circle. It's really boundless. So for us, this reality of total network is really profound. Far reaching means we cannot really reach. And it's wondrous, that means we cannot really grasp using our logical discriminating thinking or using words and concepts.

[20:38]

That's what wondrous means. Wondrous is a translation of profound and far-reaching and wondrous. This Nyo is a translation of, you know, the name, the complete name of the Lotus Sutra is Sadharma. Sat Dharma Kundalika Sutra. Kundalika is a lotus flower. And Sat Dharma is sometimes translated as a myoho. Sat is myo, and Dharma is ho.

[21:42]

Myōhō-renge-kyō is the name of the sutra in Japanese. And another translation of sadharma is shōbō. Shōbō in shōbō genzo, true dharma. And myōhō is the same, two different translations of the same Sanskrit word, sadharma. And this Sa is the same as Sa in Samyaksambodhi. So this true and wondrous is the same meaning. It's really true that we cannot grasp. And another meaning of this Myo is excellent. It's excellent and wondrous beyond human grasping. It cannot be something man-made.

[22:50]

So we need a faith, because we cannot see this entire network. We need a faith or trust to the teaching, in this case Dogen's writing, or what the Lotus Sutra said, or what Shakyamuni taught. Though their teaching is profound and far-reaching and wondrous, so we need trust or faith in their teaching. And yet, you know, we can practice it and we can verify the truth, even though through our practice, through our life experience.

[23:56]

So it's really wondrous, it's ungraspable with our discriminating mind, but we can, from the bottom of our existence, we can experience that truth. So this is not simply something we have to believe, even though we cannot experience whether it is true or not. And when we study the teachings and practice and verification, when we go through that process, we hear of this supreme awakening, sometimes following a teacher and sometimes following the sutras. Or sometimes we see that reality by seeing the change of color of the leaves on the tree changing, and also the leaves fall down, or the flower blooms.

[25:22]

in actually not only through teachers teaching or teaching through written scriptures but each and everything actually really expressing this reality if we have our eyes to see it and if we have ears to hear that teaching. That is what Dogen meant when he said The sound of the valley stream is expounding Dharma, and the colors of the mountains are Buddha's body or Buddha's appearance. But the important point in this writing is when we hear that reality of total dynamic function or total network, at the beginning it sounds like, do not do any evil.

[26:32]

This is Shoakumakusa. And here I translate as imperative. When we hear the teaching of this total function, to us it sounds like we should not do any evil. And evil means because we are supported and assisted and helped by all beings, if we really see and hear that teaching or reality, it's really not possible to harm others, injure others, because self and other are within one network.

[27:39]

So injure others means injure ourselves. So evil means to harm something, harm ourselves or harm others. And if we can awaken to this reality, It's very natural to try not to harm. If possible, try to help and support others in order to keep this network in a healthy condition. That is, I think, the first thing we hear. But in our education, in this modern society, we don't hear that kind of teaching. We hear that, for example, this world or this planet is a position of human beings.

[28:43]

And we can use any of the things on this earth to make us satisfied, happier, and make our life more convenient. And in doing so, we have all, not all, but many living beings, not only living beings, many beings on this planet. And because we are very tiny part of this network of interdependent origination on this planet, if the nature are destroyed to a certain degree, we have to die. So to work hard in order to satisfy our desire and make our life more and more convenient and rich, actually we are killing ourselves.

[29:56]

That is, I think, a very basic fundamental delusion we have, and yet somehow we live in that way. When I was a high school student, that was in the late sixties, you know, the Vietnam War was going on. And the cold war between, you know, USA or capitalist countries and communist countries were going on. And we had a fear of nuclear war. And also because of the development of economy, especially in Japan, you know, the nature was very destroyed. Until I was, I think, seven or eight years old, we could swim in the river in our town.

[31:08]

But after that, you know, our school teacher told us not to swim there. It's dangerous. It's poisonous. because some factory was built by the river. And I was growing up in a small town between Kyoto and Osaka named Ibaraki. And the town, the population of that town was, I think, When I was five or six, I just started to live there. It was about 15,000 or so. It's kind of our smallest requirement to become a city.

[32:13]

And yet when I graduate, I finished high school, so about within 10, 15, years, the population become, let's see, 30,000 minus 300,000. You know, between Kyoto and Osaka, you know, during when I was a kid, you know, they built a highway and Shinkansen, a bullet train, And almost all the rice paddy was destroyed and factories and housing built. So when I was a child, we could see the rice paddy all over. And by the Shinto shrines and Buddhist temples, all those things are

[33:23]

And only, you know, paid street. You know, that was the condition when I was a teenager. So I felt, you know, it seems, you know, human civilization is destroying the nature. And that was true, I think. But people thought this is development. Development means getting better. And I think some people still think so. And our school education in Japan was, to me, like a factory. I thought the entire Japanese society is one huge money-making machine, and schools are the factories to produce parts of that machine.

[34:34]

And I couldn't find any meaning to study in that way, so I quit. I quit studying. I often escaped from classroom and went to library and read any books on philosophy, religion, literature. So I didn't want to go to college or university. So I wanted to drop out from that kind of lifestyle. Anyway, that's why I started to practice then. Anyway, I think we live in such a condition, we feel something strange, something not healthy.

[35:44]

So we try to find a healthier way of life and try to search the way. And in my case, studying and practicing Buddhism becomes my way of life, to live according to this reality. When I was a teenager, I hear from the Japanese society that this is strange, this is not healthy, this is not right way of life. This message, I think, is a message from this entire network of interdependent origination, I think.

[36:45]

And that is, in a sense, do not do any evil, the message from this Anuttara Samyaksambodhi telling me, do not do any evil. And I try not to. That is my practice, actually. Try not to harm others and harm this nature and harm or destroy this network, I think is our practice. And if we don't hear, do not do any evil, it is not the true dharma of Buddhas. If we study some teaching and the teaching doesn't sound, don't do any evil, then according to Dogen, that's not Buddha's teaching. If that is Buddha's teaching, it sounds to us as, do not do any evil.

[37:57]

And it must be us. So if it doesn't sound, do not do any evil, It must be a suggestion of demons. So Dogen is very clear about this. So what he's saying is that good and bad or good and evil is not a dichotomy. but not to any evil, is a kind of a teaching or a message from this reality beyond dichotomy, beyond discrimination. I really like this teaching of Dogen. We should know that that fifth phase, do not do any evil, anything harmful, is the true dharma of Buddhas. This phase, do not do any evil,

[39:07]

is not set up in this way through fabrication of ordinary human beings. So this doesn't mean this is not a man-made kind of a regulation or morality, but this is a, how can I say, message from this entire reality in which we are being born, living and dying. So this teaching of not doing evil is not man-made regulation or rules based on the Discrimination, this is good, this is evil. So you should do good and you should not do evil. But don't do evil is a message from Absolute Reality.

[40:10]

When we hear the awakening in the form of verbal teaching, so when we express this total function using words, it sounds like not do any evil. If we hear this way, that is the utterance of supreme awakening using words. if someone like Buddha or like Buddhist teachers or other people say in this way, don't be harmful to anyone, that is a verbal expression of this awakening to this total reality.

[41:20]

So we don't need to say this is so-called religion called Buddhism. But any teacher's teaching which says give this message, don't be harmful to this entire network of interdependent origination, is the verbal expression of this awakening. Since this is already the utterance of awakening, these words are themselves awakening. These words, in this case, Soag Maksa, is the word of awakening. That expresses the awakening, extreme awakening, because this word, this phrase, not doing any evil or shokumakusa, is itself awakening.

[42:31]

This is an expression of ultimate supreme awakening, the message from this total function. And upon hearing, in our practice, upon hearing of the utterance of the Supreme Awakening, like this saying, Soak Moksa, and being turned or being led by this utterance, being led by this utterance, not be harmful. And we wish not to do any evil. We vow to not to do anything harmful and keep first practicing not to do any evil. So we try to practice not to do anything harmful to both ourselves and others.

[43:40]

That is our practice. That is our vow. And when any evil is going on not being done, the strength of practice is immediately manifested. So when our practice matures and going on not being done, It's not because of our willpower or our self-effort, but naturally evil or harmful thing is not being done. that is the time when the strength of practice is manifested.

[44:41]

This manifested is Genjo in Genjo Koan. So, for example, in the case of Buddha, even though Buddha doesn't make effort not to do anything harmful, But because of the awakening, deep awakening of this reality, you know, for Buddha, you know, naturally evil is not going. Shoak is naturally maksa. It's not that evil action exists, but for, you know, much other people like Buddha, evil is not doing, or shoak is maksa. I mean, there's no meaning, no meaning to do such a thing, to do a harmful thing.

[45:47]

For the people who really mature and who really deeply awaken to this reality, evil is not doing. You know, when we become mature, you know, for example when we are teenagers we do so many stupid things that some of them are really harmful to ourselves and also to others. But when we become mature a little bit, you know, we see how stupid we are and we don't understand why we did such a thing. But somehow we did. And human beings and Buddhas are the same, I think, teenager and a little bit matured person. We don't understand why we did such a stupid, foolish thing.

[46:53]

that we do the same thing actually as human beings if we see what we are doing from Buddha's point of view. I think Buddha don't understand why human beings do such stupid things, but sometimes we do so seriously. And sometimes we think that is good. That is human view and Buddha's inside, the difference between human view and Buddha's darshan or inside. So this manifestation of shugyoriki or strength of practice is, you know, becoming mature.

[48:00]

Then this manifestation shows itself in an amount equal to the entire earth, the entire world, all times and all beings. This is a translation of Zen. The entire earth is jin chi. Chi is earth. Jin kai. Kai is world or universe or cosmos. Kai. Jin chi, jin kai, and jin ji are entire time, or in this translation, all times. And jinpo, ho or po.

[49:03]

So this jin is the word Dogen Zenji and Uchiyama Ross used when they used the expression jin issai jiko. Jin issai jiko. means this entire network throughout time and space. This is another expression, universal self. This is jinsai-jiko. So we are really a tiny, tiny part of this entirety still because everything is connected. This entirety is the self from one side. And from another side, there's no such thing as jiko or self.

[50:08]

This is only just a collection of media dharmas. And self is just one of the media dharmas. So only this network exists. There's no such thing as self or shohak. So we see the reality from two sides. So there's no self and this entire network is the self. That is the two sides. And from you know, the side of this entire reality, you know, there's no such things called evil or good. This is just one entire function or movement. But from our point of view, there's something we should do and something we should not do. And Dogen Zenji talks always from both sides at the same time.

[51:20]

That is a reason his writing is full of contradiction and paradox and nonsense, almost nonsense. So that means the strength of our practice is manifest as a whole time and space. And the measurement of the amount is not doing. Here Dogen Zenji is not doing in the meaning of completely different from you should not do. But this not doing is something like a Hishiryo. you know, when he discussed about our Zazen, he used the expression, shiryō, fushiryō, and hishiryō.

[52:36]

And my translation is thinking, not thinking, and beyond thinking. And in this sentence, Dogen Zen used this expression, makusa, as like a hushiryo, I mean hishiryo, beyond thinking, the reality beyond our thinking or not thinking. But thinking and not thinking are included, even thinking and not thinking are taking place within beyond thinking. I hope I can find some better English expression for this. Not doing is not strong enough.

[53:39]

So if you have some idea, please give me. So this not doing or maksa is same as musa. This is Maksa. And Maksa is another expression used in Zen. And another word is Mui. Mui, musa, maksa are the same meaning. Nothing man-made. And the opposition of this expression is josa.

[54:47]

Josa is the word I translate as fabrication. Fabrication and non-fabrication. In the case of such a person, at such a time, even though dwelling in and coming and going, where evil deeds can be done, facing the conditions in which evil deeds can be done, and interacting with companions who may do evil deeds, No evil deeds are ever done because the power of not doing is manifested.

[55:56]

As a, you know, the expression, such a person and such a time is a Shoto Inmoji and Shoto Inmonin. I think you know this expression, inmo. Inmo, nin and inmoji. Sho, to, inmo. Nin and inmoji. Shō is the same shō as the two, or shō in shōbō, true dharma. Tō means to hit, that means precisely, precisely or the very person of inmo.

[57:06]

means nothing. Ingmo is something like a how or a what. So this expression, ingmo, is used in Zen literature to show the reality beyond any definition. And Dogen Zenji wrote a chapter of Shobo Genzo titled Inmo, and he quote a koan or expression by Ungo Douyo that says, When you wish to attain the matter of immo, or immoji, then you are the person of immo.

[58:13]

And you are already a person of the immo, why do you worry about the matter of immo? That means we are already living within this entire portal function and our special to attain it. And even though we are already within there, why do you want to get it if you are already in there? That is the meaning of inmo. at the very person of Imo and at the very time of Imo. So this is a very important expression. That means we are really awakening to the reality we are living within the entire network of interdependent origination.

[59:24]

when we really awaken to that reality at that time. That is what Dogen is talking here. So this is not, how can I say, is a common thing in the society, so we must be really careful. At the very moment, we really awaken to that reality. That is the meaning. Even though dwelling in and coming and going fear evil deeds can be done, That means because we are Bodhisattvas, to fulfill to practice Bodhisattva vows, we vow not to enter nirvana.

[60:31]

We vow not to cross the river and enter nirvana, but we vow to stay in samsara, to help and work with all beings. That is Bodhisattva vow. So many Zen masters like Nansen or Isan said, when I die, I will be born as a water buffalo at the farmer's house underneath the temple or monastery or the mountains. That means their vow is to be born as a water buffalo. realm of animal within six realms to work in the muddy water. So as a Bodhisattva our vow should not be to be born in heaven but our vow should be

[61:39]

lower places, more kind of difficult places because that is a place people who need help are there. That means Bodhisattva needs to be in practice and work where any kind of evil can be done. So it's kind of a dangerous place. But that should be the place where Bodhisattva needs to work. So dwelling in, and coming and going, fear evil deeds can be done. Actually, wherever we are in this world, evil deeds can be done. all over this world now, evil beings have been doing.

[62:45]

Placing the conditions in which evil deeds can be done and interacting with companions who may do evil deeds no evil deeds are ever done because the power of not doing is manifested. You know, when a Bodhisattva really awaken to this reality and try to live together with all beings and try not to be harmful but to help to be helpful to all beings And we cannot avoid that kind of a situation. We cannot and also we should not. But that doesn't mean we have to do evil things.

[63:52]

We can live without doing evil things, even living in such a condition. Of course, even though we have such a vow, still we make so many mistakes and we injure or harm others and also harm ourselves. But as a part of our practice, when we did such a thing, a harmful thing to ourselves and others, you know, we need to do repentance. and try to return to that direction. Evil deeds do not express themselves as evil deeds.

[64:57]

Evil deeds is not necessarily evil. evil or harm thing, often we lose sight of the reality that we only think my emotion, my feeling, my personal feeling, my personal benefit, my personal goal or those things. When we lose sight of this entire reality, we make mistakes or we harm others. But we don't necessarily to act in that way. So whenever we have a kind of a desire or, what is the word, urge within ourselves, I want to do this even though this is harmful, it might be harmful, then

[66:05]

as, you know, there is a verse of repentance that if you want to practice repentance, you should sit upright and be mindful of the reality of all beings. Then the, what is the word? I forget the word. Anyway, that evil deeds or evil karma, I think, evil karma, it will melt down, melt away like the snow in the sunlight. So our sitting practice is in a sense being mindful of reality of all beings and also this is a form of repentance and that allows us to calm down and we can see that we don't need to really necessarily to do such a thing.

[67:18]

That is really important thing. to be calmed down. So evil deeds have no fixed devices, means even, you know, for example, a sword, can be a device to do evil things, to kill something. But there's a famous saying, you know, a sword can take a life and also can give a life. That means, you know, sometimes Manjushri has a sword. This sword is a sword to cut off the delusions or delusive desires.

[68:19]

So a sword is not necessarily a device of doing evil or anything else. For example, driving a car can be a device to do evil and also can be a device to do something good. There is no fixed thing which is really evil, depending upon how we use it. Many medicines can be poison, and some poison can be medicine. So depending upon whether we have wisdom or not. So there is a principle of once upholding and once letting go.

[69:28]

This upholding or grasping and letting go is a kind of a common method of teaching in Zen. Sometimes the teacher teaches his student, saying, you should not do this, do that, do that. you know, always kind of grasping the student. And sometimes the teacher let go of the student and let the student as they want, this grasping and letting go. is used as a method of teaching and also an expression of Dharma. Sometimes, for example, Dōge said, you should do in this way or that way, like how to use a ryōki. And at that time, he said, nothing is fixed.

[70:29]

You can do in whatever way you wish. Or we can say, you know, we should sit dazen as much as possible. But another time we can say, don't worry about sitting. Dazen is not form. So there are always two sides, and we have to find the best. And here I think Dogen's saying about good and bad or evil is the same. Sometimes we have to really grasp ourselves not to do evil, and sometimes we can let go and yet we don't need to do evil. So there are many different conditions and situations. And at this very moment,

[71:33]

That means then we awaken to that reality of entire network and practice as a person of that network. That is in another expression, Dogen Zenjius, as an English translation. A ten-direction world is itself a true human body. So our true body is this ten-direction world. When we live in that way, that is what this moment means. This very moment, we can understand the principle that evil deeds do not invade people. And the principle that people do not destroy evil deeds, that means a person and evil deeds is not like a, how can I say, I think it means we don't need to fight against evil.

[72:55]

Somehow when we awaken to that reality, evil deeds naturally become not doing. but often we try to fight against ourselves when we want to do something evil. But that is a human kind of effort, and of course that is important in our daily lives. But when we really awaken to that reality of interdependent ordination, You know, we don't need to fight against ourselves or fight against others, but somehow naturally all we become not doing. I think that is what this means. After this he is going to discuss about practice with this attitude.

[74:07]

So I stop here today and continue tomorrow. Any questions? Please. I still don't understand the phrase of when any evil is going on, not being done. Can you turn it off now? I understood what you said at the time you said it. So it just didn't seem like it. And if you did do it this second, I mean, I just, I don't understand. Yeah. When any people is going on, not being done. Going on, yeah, continue or keep not being done. That means not continuing continuously, not only at one moment, but continuously.

[75:18]

not because of our personal effort, but naturally become not being done. For example, after Sakyamuni became Buddha, I don't think he is fighting against his evil nature and always conquers the evil part of his mind, or he had to purify his mind. But naturally, because of his awakening, these become helpful to others. I think that's what it means. Evil deed is not being done naturally, not because of his fighting against evil.

[76:27]

Does that make sense? Please. So the statement, we don't need to cry against evil, because not only does evil come naturally when awakening happens, but we feel exactly like it follows because there's this one awakening that happens in there. Now, I understand theoretically that awakening is here already, but in practical terms, it's at least frequently not noticeable. How does this affect me not making a credit against people? Well, I think as far as we are fighting on this even, Part of fighting against evil is evil.

[77:33]

So it's not like a miracle by the light of the sun or wisdom. So as far as we are fighting against evil, evil continues, I think. So until we, all human beings, get into that reality, we are living together within a network of interdependent origination. I think evil never ceases to be. Then we try to fight against evil. And this fight against evil based on our idea of what is good and what is evil. And my idea of evil and their idea of evil are different. Almost always.

[78:34]

And people fighting against America, USA, don't think they are evil. but at least American government think they are evil. And actually, they think US government is evil. So if we live with that attitude, the fighting has no end until either side is really eliminated. I think so. Yes. Yes. Causes and conditions. Yes. Yeah. Within time and space, things happening, everything is connected as a cause and condition and result. So we have to, in order to see this interconnectedness, we have to see what is the real cause of this twisted karma.

[80:03]

The real cause. I think that is really more difficult than fighting against people who, I think, are evil. Because it's painful to us. We have to see the evilness of ourselves, or sickness of ourselves. So it's not an easy way. fighting against the enemy that we think evil, feel, you know, kind of a... make us feel good, you know, we are good people because we are fighting against those people. That is really dangerous. Please.

[81:08]

You may have just answered this, but because I have some ideas about Buddhism, I think that the equal is greed, hate, and self-delusion. And I understand that even fighting against that is a problem. Now, you said, I think you said, see the real cause. Well, Uchiyama Roshi said, you know, our three-person mind is the source or cause of evil deeds, evil actions. But they themselves are not so evil. They are like babies. So if we take good care of the three-person mind, you know, they can be quiet. But once we ignore them or hit them or abuse them, they become powerful like a crying baby.

[82:25]

So what we have to do is to fight against the three-person mind and eliminate them, but to be a friend or to be even a parent of our three-person mind. I think so. If you look at the society, it encourages the babies to just be bigger babies. We are the babies. Yes, right. It encourages all of us to be really, really baby-like. Yeah. And I think, in my case, sitting facing the world is a kind of taking care of a baby to me. I mean, at least I can see the baby crying and try not to harm or beat it.

[83:27]

Okay? Okay, thank you.

[83:34]

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