Good afternoon. This morning I introduced the story in which the sayings of N. Kansai and Issan Ryu about all living beings have Buddha nature and have not Buddha nature. So now, I'm ready to start to talk on Section 8 and 9, about Wu-Buddha Nature and Mu-Buddha Nature. But in order to do so, yesterday, as an introduction, I briefly mentioned the first discussion about Wu and Mu-Buddha Nature in Section So, but I didn't actually explain what this means, so let me go back to that place and start to talk Section 8 and 9.

[01:17]

If you have this book page, Section 68, Nine, yes. The story is about the conversation between a seven-year-old boy who became the fifth ancestor and his teacher's fourth ancestor. The story of the boy is interesting, but it's not the topic I'm going to talk. So I just talk about their conversation. In the story, their conversation is, you know, not so difficult, very simple.

[02:21]

The patriarch asked him, what is your name? Then the teacher met the boy. The teacher asked, what's your name? Then the boy replied, I have a name, but it is not an ordinary name. Then the teacher asked, what name is that? The boy said, it is Buddha nature. And the teacher said, you have no Buddha nature. This no-Buddha nature is 無仏性. You have no... I'll write it later. Then the boy said, you say no-Buddha nature because Buddha nature is emptiness. You know, this is not so difficult. It's a very simple question and answer. And this story showed the boy, the seven-year-old boy, is very smart.

[03:29]

And that's all. But Dogen Zenji read this conversation in a very different way. First, Peter's question is, excuse me. Nyo ga sei. You fat name. And this sei means family name, not a personal first name, but family name. Fat is your family name. Then the boy's reply is sei. SOKU-U-FU-ZE-JO-SHO.

[04:40]

The name is there. That means I have a name. But that is not ordinary name. Then, the teacher said, Then, what is that name? What is your name? That is not ordinary name. And the boy said, 「で、仏性。」 And the teacher said, 「にょ、無仏性。」 You have no Buddha nature.

[05:50]

Then the boy said, Because buddha-nature is emptiness, therefore you say, no. That is the Chinese characters of this conversation. I don't have much time, so I need to be in a hurry. From the end of the bottom of page 69, I talk sentence by sentence. When we penetrate the utterance of the two patriarchs, We find that the fourth patriarch's, Fap is your name, Fap is your name, contains a meaning of essential significance.

[07:03]

This is a very simple question. What's your name? And Dogen said, this has a very important, deep meaning. He said, in the past, there was a man from the land of Fap. There was a family name, family named Fat. So this Fat can be the name, family name. So this is not a question, but this is a statement that says, you are Ka or Fat is your name. Your name is Fat. Here, the Fourth Patriarch is teaching the boy, your family name is Fat. So, Fat is your family name. This is the same as saying, I am Das, you are Das too.

[08:04]

So, this Fat is the same as Das. Das is something like Inmo. or how. How or what has no meaning. It makes the sentence a question. And in Chinese literature, those words are used to point out the reality beyond any definition, naming, labeling, or something which is unconditioned. formless. So, your name, this family name, and this shō, as Buddha nature, is same sound, sing, x-i-n-g, both are sing in Chinese pronunciation.

[09:12]

So, your nature is a fact. is the meaning of this statement. That means your true nature is something unconditioned, beyond restriction. That's why this statement is the same as, I am thus, you are thus. And this, I am thus, you are thus, is the sixth ancestor, Huinan's, no, oh yes, Huinan's statement in the conversation with his student, Mangakuejo. You are thus, I am thus. Then, our fifth ancestor said, sei soku u. This sei, so this sei is nature. In this case, Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is itself.

[10:13]

This soku is the same as the soku in Soku-shin-ze-butsu. The mind itself is Buddha. So, the being, or Buddha, Buddha-nature, nature is itself being. That is how Dogen Zen reads. three Chinese characters, the nature and being is the same thing. That means, usually nature is something unseen, and being is something concrete, we can see, object of our eye. But, Dogen gives this as Buddha-nature is itself being. And there is this. This and who is not. And jo is ordinary, but this also means permanent. So that means this nature and being is not a permanent nature.

[11:22]

That is the same as Hsui-Lan said. Impermanence is Buddha nature. So, Buddha-nature is being, concrete being, and it is not permanent. It's an impermanent thing. The Fifth Spiritual Director said, I have a name, but it's not an ordinary name. So this is Bo's saying. My nature is being. And that is not a permanent being, a nature. In other words, a name. A name or a nature. A name, nature, that is self-identical with being. Self-identical means to say nature is self-identical with being. A name that is self-identical with being is not unordinary or permanent name or nature.

[12:30]

So, unordinary name or permanent nature is not self-identical with being. If nature, if Buddha nature is permanent, then it cannot be the same, identical with each and all, every being. That is that, you know, arise sometime, stay for a while, and disappear, coming and going. That is, being is conditioned, like our life. We are born sometime in the past, and living for a while, and disappear sometime in the future. So this is not permanent. And if the nature, Buddha nature, is permanent, then this body and mind, this five skandhas that is consumed, can't be Buddha nature. But this being itself that is impermanent is Buddha nature.

[13:35]

That is what this statement is saying, according to Dogen. I'm not sure if the seven-year-old boy understands such a thing or not. And, when the fourth patriarch said, Fat name is that. That is ve-ka-sei. This fat name or nature. Then, what is the nature? What is this nature? And, of course, this, again, this is not a question, but this is, there means this, and this means something concrete, being. So, they, God, so this each of our being,

[14:40]

very concrete being which is conditioned, is the nature of darkness. That is how Dogen read these three characters. So this concrete being is the nature of darkness. Fat name is that fat is, in this translation, it says fat is an affirmation. Affirmation is the translation of this ve, but I don't agree with this translation. This is not affirmation, but this character can be affirmation if this is used together with he. ze and hi, hi means negation and ze means affirmation.

[15:45]

If this character is used as a compound or together with hi, this is affirmation and this is negation, but this is not. I think this means something very concrete that can be pointed as this. So, This is fact, and fact is this. Darkness is this concrete thing. And this concrete, conditioned thing is itself darkness, the nature of darkness. He is fat, I-N-G, this. That means he makes, I don't know how to make, zeo kawashi kitareri.

[16:51]

There's no way to translate this. This means make this into dust. Make this concrete. beings as a collection of five skandhas into vastness. And that is a function of the nature. And fat is his name. So fat is his name. And fat, I-N-G, is possible And this concrete being can be darkness. Something unconditioned. Because it is this. Fatting is possible because it is this. Because this is something conditioned and impermanent.

[17:55]

That fire. This can be thus. That means things that is impermanent and conditioned, that means there is no fixed self-nature, empty. That's why this can be thus. This, again, this affirmation, his affirmation, again, this, is possible by virtue of what? So this and what support each other. And thisness, thisness of this being. That is, in the case of these five skandhas, shohaku. Shohaku is this. That means I'm conditioned. I was born in Japan in 1948, and I was grown up in Japan, and I was educated in Japan, so I'm a Japanese.

[19:10]

And somehow I become a Buddhist, so I'm a Japanese Buddhist. And I don't know why, but I became a priest or a monk. And so I'm a Japanese Buddhist priest. And now my job is a teacher. So I'm trying to teach. So I'm a Japanese Buddhist priest and also a teacher. This is fact. This is me. This is shock. So it's limited. This is my karma. I'm conditioned. I cannot be Chinese. I cannot be American. I cannot be French. I have to be Japanese. And somehow, I'm Buddhist means I'm not Christian or Islam or Taoist. I'm a Buddhist. And because I am a teacher, I have to talk.

[20:16]

It's a terrible thing. To talk about dharma in English is ridiculous. That is hell. This is really hell to me. Anyway, this is my karma. But this is my karma, karmic nature. This karmic nature that is point the very concrete, particular thing within time and space. And ka or fat or dust means there's no such thing. Though there's no such fixed, particular way to define this being. So, these five skandhas, is this, as a shohaku, as a Japanese Buddhist priest. And yet, at the same time, I'm not half and half.

[21:21]

But I'm a Japanese Buddhist priest, 100%. That is my karma. And yet, at the same time, this is not Japanese. This is not Buddhist. And this is not a teacher. I mean, I'm a teacher only when I teach. And I'm a Buddhist only when I compare myself with someone who are not Buddhist. And I'm a Japanese when I compare myself with someone who is not Japanese, like American, Chinese, or whatever nationality. So only when I think and compare and try to define and try to play a role. You know, I need to grasp who I am and my identity. But that is not really the true nature of this being.

[22:31]

I'm not a Japanese, actually. Let me finish my talk. Anyway, that is this and this actual concrete particular person or being is at the same time all pervading. It's not something fixed. I'm living together with all beings and I'm not a human being even. And when I sit facing the wall and letting go, No, I'm not a Japanese. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a teacher. I'm not even human beings. I'm just I am. That's it. And that is what fat means. So this and fat is the same thing. And yet, it's not half and half. But from one perspective, this is 100% this.

[23:34]

And the same thing from another perspective. There's no such thing. So these two, not aspects, but two sides of one thing. Two sides. Not two sides. Each side is 100%. R said his name is both this and fat, his nature. This nature is both this and fat, this and fat. And this together, this and fat together makes tea. It is infused in herbal tea. When it makes tea, these two are completely one thing.

[24:40]

Taste one thing. And it is infused in your ordinary tea. So, ordinary tea means our ordinary life. It is kind of a intersection of these two. This and fat. Or this and dust. That is karmic nature and Buddha nature. Then the Fifth Patriarch said, it is Buddha-nature. It is, or this is Buddha-nature. And this combination of this and the fact is Buddha-nature. Essentially this means that this is the Buddha-nature. This concrete being is itself Buddha-nature. Because this is fact, because this being is fact or thus, this is buddha nature.

[25:50]

That means this is not merely this. This is at the same time fact, something unconditioned. That is why this conditioned being can be called buddha nature. That means there is no fixed self nature. But can... Again, this it is not... it's affirmation. It's not it's affirmation, but this. This... But can this be free comprehended only in fat name? Fat name. This is fat. That's not something which is unconditioned. And then, this is not this. Then this is not this. This is buddha-nature.

[26:52]

This means... Here, it's fuze, not this. This and not this. Then this is not this. When this is not this, that is buddha nature. That means when this person, shohaku, is not shohaku, then this is buddha nature. That means shohaku is here, and yet this is not really shohaku. This is just a first collection of five skandhas. And when we see, you know, this one being from two sides, this and not this. And that is Buddha nature. So this is something like, you know, to define this as shohaku, as a Japanese Buddhist priest, that is, if we use the expression Dogen used in Fukanza Zengi, this is thinking.

[28:04]

This is shohaku, is thinking. And this is not thinking. There are no such things called shohaku. So, we don't think. And that thinking, think of not thinking, is beyond thinking, or hi shiryo. That is bussho. So, ze and fuze and bussho is the same as thinking, not thinking, and beyond thinking. And Dogen Zenji says in Shobo Genzo Zazenshin, in order to think of not thinking, we use beyond thinking. So, in order to be this person, Sohaku, as a Buddhist priest, I need to see this is not really shohaku, and this is not really a Buddhist priest.

[29:11]

When we see, you know, this concrete being from two sides, then we can see Buddha nature as beyond thinking. Hence, although this is fat, Although this is fat, and this is Buddha. This is fat, and this is Buddha. Then, that is free, broken through, and cast off. It is without fail and nature. This free, broken through, and cast off, that's Raku. Datsuraku. Same Datsuraku as dropping of body and mind. Shinjin Datsuraku. So, there is cast off itself. Our, you know, my, you know, being priest, Buddhist priest, or I'm shohaku, is cast off.

[30:22]

Then, that is Buddha nature. You understand what I'm saying? I don't think I understand. So, he is discussing about Buddha nature in terms of two sides of one concrete being. And then we see in that way, he says, hence the name of nature is Chou. And Chou is a family name of this boy. Or a shoe. When this, that is zei. Zei, yeah. Is the cast of himself and the damage we show. Yeah.

[31:23]

From shohaku, cast of shohaku. Yeah. That means the friend shohaku is free from shohaku. Yeah. When Buddhist priest is free from Buddhist priest, then that is Buddha nature. So there's no clinging, no grasping. And yet... Yes, that is what it means. And yet, this is something like, you know, put a gear into neutral and into some gear. Then, Buddha nature is so something put the idea into neutral. That means I don't need to function as a Buddhist priest. When I'm sitting facing the wall, I don't need to be a Buddhist. I need to be a teacher. I don't need to be a husband or a father or whatever. I'm really released from being this person.

[32:25]

But when I sit here, In the Zen-do, you know, I have to do something. I have to function as a teacher, Buddhist teacher. So I put the gear into that. So I try to do my best. This is U-busho, U-buddha nature. And when I put the gear into neutral, then I'm nothing. I don't need to be anything. I'm really released from shokaku, or Buddhist teacher, or whatever role I have to play. That is mubusho. And ubusho and mubusho are always together. Please. I think it's possible, but it doesn't move.

[33:28]

If you don't want to move, that's fine. You can stay there. But in order to move or function as a car, somehow we... How does Buddha nature move? Buddha nature moves as shohak, as a karmic person, shohak, as a Buddhist priest. So I'm talking... In the case of flowers and trees and stuff, you're saying that it moves for them to... Yeah, flower is flowering. Right? Yeah, it's moving. It's changing. So changing impermanence is a movement of Buddha nature. Something which doesn't move. World is alive. Of course. If there is such a world. Unfortunately, I cannot be such a one.

[34:31]

We're using such a one. Yeah. So this world and all beings in this world is being intersection of being and non-being, or this and that. That is what this means. And that is Buddha nature. And that Buddha nature means we can move, we can change. I don't need to be always shohaku, or this person. Because I'm shohaku, and I have certain experiences and karma, I think I cannot do this thing or that thing, but I can do this thing. But because it's impermanent, there's always possibility I can change. I can grow. Otherwise, you know, I'm fixed. And that is what Buddha nature means.

[35:37]

Buddha nature means, you know, the conditioned, karmic, deluded person can change. And sometimes in the future can be Buddha. That is what Buddha nature means. But according to Dōgen, it's not a matter of two different times, but we always, we are conditioned, and at the same time, always we are unconditioned. That's why we can change, we can move, we can grow, we can live. So that, this is his interpretation of impermanence. And this impermanence is buddha nature. Then the fourth patriarch said, you have no buddha nature.

[36:42]

This utterance reveals that although you are not someone else, you are not someone else, I need to be shohak. And yet, you are entirely you. You are more Buddha-nature, even though this is conditioned, karmic person named Shōhaku. But still, at the same time, this can be more Buddha-nature. That means completely unconditioned, that means completely free. And dropped off, that means liberated. And again, questions. You should know, and you should study, what is the temporal occasion now when you are more buddha nature. And this temporal occasion is always right now, right here. Are you more buddha nature when you have free attained buddhahood?

[37:49]

Are you more buddha nature when you go beyond buddhahood? This means buddha nature is about practice. We should, you know, walk the buddha way toward buddhahood. But buddhahood is not the goal. When we reach buddhahood, we should go beyond buddhahood. So there is no end. We keep going, keep practicing. That is also meaning of no fixed nature, even as a buddha. I need to be in a hurry, so... Next few sentences he said, he is saying we should investigate this reality from many different way. So, do not restrict new Buddha nature by groping around for it.

[38:52]

At times you practice and realize that no buddha nature is a single time of samadhi. This is practice. And our darshan is really manifestation of no buddha nature. And you should be asking and should be articulating. Am I no buddha nature when buddha nature attains buddhahood? Am I no Buddha-nature when Buddha-nature begins aspiring for enlightenment? That means, when Buddha-nature allows body-mind to become Buddha. You should have even the temple pillars asking. Not only living beings as Sohak, but each and everything. You should be asking the temple pillars. You should have the Buddha-nature asking too. So Buddha Nature asking Buddha Nature. That means everything is Buddha Nature.

[39:53]

Hence, the utterance, Mu Buddha Nature, reverberates far beyond the chambers of the fourth Patriarch. It has seen and heard in Hsuan Mei. Hsuan Mei is the place where Fifth Ancestor lived. And it circulated freely in Chao-Chu is Joshu. Because later Dogen discuss about Joshu's Dogutsu U-Buddha nature and Mu-Buddha nature. And also it was exalted in Ta-Kei. Ta-Kei is I-San. In section 9, Dogen discuss about this line is a saying. And you must devote yourself without fail to the truth of the Mu-Buddha nature. So we have to practice Mu-Buddha nature. Never cease in your effort.

[40:58]

So we should really study and practice Mu-Buddha nature. And although with Mu-Buddha nature, globe you weigh along, there is a touchstone, and that touchstone is fat. This fat is a touchstone of Moo Buddha nature. And there is a temporal condition that is you, this you, me. And there is entrance into its dynamic function. This dynamic, entrance of dynamic function is This, again in this translation it says affirmation, but it's this, this particular person, thing. And there is a common name, or nature, that is true, all-pervading. And it is a direct and unimmediate access.

[42:02]

Then the Fifth Patriarch, the boy, the Atalans, you say, move Buddha-nature because Buddha-nature is emptiness. Articulate clearly and distinctly the truth that emptiness is not known. So, here, emptiness is not a negation. In uttering Buddha-nature emptiness, one does not say half a pound. One does not say eight ounces. One says Mu. This means eight ounces or half a pound and Mu is the same thing. So Mu is not a lack of existence. But Mu is... Mu means beyond our clinging, grasping. So freedom. Because it is emptiness, you do not say emptiness.

[43:10]

That means if it's really empty, you don't need to say this is empty. That means if you use the word emptiness, still already we put something on it. And that word is already, how can you say, fixed as a concept. and concept is permanent. But the reality itself is impermanent. Because it is Mu, you do not say Mu. When it's really Mu, you do not need to say Mu. You say Mu because it is Buddha nature emptiness. Hence, every piece of Mu I mean, each and every thing is a piece, every piece of Mu. We are one piece of Mu.

[44:10]

It's a touchstone to articulate emptiness. Mu means this and not this. Emptiness is the capacity to articulate Mu. This is not the emptiness of form is emptiness. Form is emptiness is from the Heart Sutra. Form is emptiness, or shikisoku ze ku. Form is emptiness. Form is emptiness does not mean form is forced into emptiness. Form is being and emptiness is non-being. But, so, when we say form is empty or emptiness, it seems like this form should be emptied. Or, when we say form is emptiness, it says there are two things, form and emptiness.

[45:18]

And by saying is or is itself, we want to make these two things into one. But once it's separated into two, it cannot be put together, become one again. So, when we, when rūpa, or form, is really empty, we don't need to say, form is emptiness. Because when we say form, emptiness is already there. And then we say, form is really empty. Then we say emptiness. Form is already there. So we don't need to say form is emptiness. That is what Dogen said in Shobo Genzo Makahane Haramitsu, his comment on the Heart Sutra. And he's saying the same thing here. Nor is it making form out of emptiness.

[46:22]

It has to be the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness. It has to be the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness. This is ku ze ku. Ku is itself ku. That's all it is. We don't need to say emptiness is form. Emptiness is emptiness. Form is form. That's it. And the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness, is a piece of rock in emptiness. A piece of rock in emptiness. That means there's a rock in emptiness. This rock is empty. Well, I don't have time to explain what this means. So, this being so, the fourth and the fifth patriarchs are asking and articulating buddha-nature, mu, buddha-nature, ku, or emptiness, and buddha-nature, being.

[47:33]

So, being is u. U, mu, and ku are all buddha-nature. That is how Dogen interprets this conversation between false ancestors and the bodhi. And this is the starting point of Dogen's discussion of wu buddha nature and mu buddha nature. And we go to section 8. I'm busy. In the original story, first, it's the I-san, Reiu said living beings or sentient beings have no buddha nature.

[48:39]

But here Dogen first pick up Enkan Saiyan saying. National teacher I don't know how to pronounce this, so let me say, call him Enkan Saiyan. A distinguished priest and disciple of Matsu, or Baso, once taught his disciples, all sentient beings have the Buddha nature. All sentient beings have the Buddha nature. It's a translation of all living beings, or sentient beings, who Buddha nature. Let me read this section first. The word all sentient beings should be penetrated forthwith. The inner and external karma of sentient beings is not the same.

[49:40]

Their ways of viewing things are different. They are unenlightened. non-Buddhist adherents, the three vehicles, five vehicles, and so forth. As for all sentient beings in the Buddha way, all things possessed of mind are called sentient beings, because mind is as such a sentient being. Things not possessed of mind are also sentient beings. because sentient beings are of such mind. Hence, all mind is sentient being, and sentient beings all are being Buddha-nature. Hence, all mind is sentient being, and sentient beings all are being Buddha-nature. Grass and trees, nation and state, are mind.

[50:44]

Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. Because they are sentient beings, they are being buddha nature. Some moons, stars and planets are mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. Because they are sentient beings, they are being buddha nature. The being buddha nature uttered by National Teacher Chi'an or Sei'an, is just like this. If it were not like this, it would not be the being Buddha-nature, or U-Busho, that is uttered in the Buddha way. Here, the essential significance of the National Teacher's utterance is simply, all sentient beings being Buddha-nature. In that case, they could not be being buddha-nature unless they were sentient beings.

[51:50]

So, we should ask the national teacher, are all buddhas being buddha-nature or not? We should probe and question things in this way. We should examine why it is not said All sentient beings are, as such, buddha-nature. Why? Instead, it is said, all sentient beings are being buddha-nature. The being of being, the being of being, being buddha-nature, must, without fail, fall away. This falling away is a single steel rod. A single steel rod is the purse of a bird in flight. Hence, all Buddha-natures are being sentient beings. This is a truth that not only preaches away sentient beings, but also preaches completely Buddha-nature as well.

[53:00]

Even if the natural teacher did not give direct expression to his understanding, just as it was, that does not mean there will not come a time when he will be able to do so. Nor does it mean the words he speaks at this time are ineffectual or devoid of essential meaning. Again, although he himself has not necessarily grasped the truth he embodies in himself, he is nonetheless possessed of the four elements, five skandhas, and skin, flesh, bone, and marrow, body of the Buddha nature. Sometimes, in this way, a real utterance may take a lifetime to make.

[54:02]

Sometimes, one may be engaged for several lifetimes in making an utterance without knowing it. So this is Dogen's comment on the saying of Zen Master N. Kansai-yan about All living beings are in Buddha-nature. And first he discussed fatis, then all living beings. In this translation, sentient beings. And as a Buddhist term, The inner and external karma of sentient beings is not the same. That means each one of us has different karma. Therefore, the way of viewing things are different.

[55:05]

So each one of us has different karma, different experiences in the past. So the way we think, the way we view, things are different. Because as my karma, I'm a Japanese, I think using Japanese language, and even now I'm thinking in Japanese, and speaking in English. This is my karma. Very twisted karma. Very difficult thing. But this is my karma. So we are all different as a karmic being. That is true. Thank you. And there are unenlightened beings, non-Buddhist, adherent of the Three Vehicles, Five Vehicles, and so forth. So there are many different sentient beings. But, Dogen said, that is not a fact.

[56:11]

Sentient beings here differ too. in the sayings of Enkan Saiyan. That means sentient beings are not only human beings. As for all sentient beings in the Buddha way, so this is the point he wants to make it clear, that Buddha nature is something existing within human beings. as a karmic nature. But the Buddha nature, or the mind, that is itself Buddha, is this network of interdependent origination. That is why he says, as for all sentient beings in the Buddha way, all things possessed of mind are called sentient beings. Because mind is as such sentient beings.

[57:16]

This mind is sin. So beings which have this sin are sentient beings. And this is a common definition of what sentient beings means. Sentient means person who has a mind and sentiment. But next one is kind of a unique thing to Dōgen. Things not possessed of mind are also sentient beings. That means who don't have mind. Mūshin. Wūshin and mūshin. And that means mūshin is one kind of mind. It's not a lack of mind. And wūshin is another kind of mind. or heart. So both wu-shin and mu-shin, or beings with wu-shin and beings with mu-shin, are sentient beings.

[58:22]

Therefore, all mind is sentient beings. All mind, both mu-shin and wu-shin, are sentient beings. And sentient beings all are being Kuta-nature. So grass and trees, neshogan state, are mind. This is same as Dogen said in the mind, in Shobogen, the mind, sokushin-jebutsu, mind itself is Buddha, as one mind is all things, and all things are one mind. So grass and trees, neshogan state, are mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. So grass and trees, state, nation and state, are all sentient beings.

[59:25]

And therefore they are buddha-nature, u-buddha-nature. And some monsters and planets are mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. Because they are sentient beings, they are being U buddha-nature. So, actually, each and everything in this Dharma world is buddha-nature. Because they are all sentient beings. And the being buddha-nature uttered by natural teacher Seiyan is Like this means we should interpret his saying in this way, that all beings within the network of interdependent origination is one mind. And that is being Buddha nature. I can't remember what text it's from, but there's a line that all sentient and insentient beings are constantly expounding Dharma.

[60:36]

Yeah, that is Mujō-seppō. Mujō-seppō is insentient, expanding dharma. You know, that is like a sound of valley stream and the colors of mountains are expanding dharma. And according to Dōgen, what Dōgen is saying here, those things, The sound of a valley stream and the colors of mountains are sentient beings. I have a question. You said, unless you transcend or transmigrate the mind to the Bodhi mind, then you can say you have devoted to the nature. So, in that case, could you say all sentient beings are in practice? I don't think that, you know, I'm sorry, I think you were not here yesterday, but I think I said in that point yesterday.

[61:43]

I think so. That is, in the morning or in the afternoon, I forget. What is the expression? Buddha nature is always together with attaining Buddhahood. That means, unless we have practiced, and unless we are letting go of our thoughts, unless the Nāma Rūpa ceases existing as a Nāma Rūpa, Those are not Buddha nature or whatever. This is what is... This is the way the person who is liberated from this, how can I say, dichotomy of self and object.

[63:00]

and go beyond or liberate from the separation or dichotomy of self and object. The object starts to reveal as they are, thusness. As far as we are seeing things using our How can I say, thinking mind, or desire, based on desire, or consciousness, then these are not, doesn't express buddhadharma. So subject and object would be two sentient beings, non-human sentient beings. Pardon? I said, if subject and object, according to your explanation, would be something other than human beings, other, let, for example, a tree and a mountain, Would they go through the same process of arising in the body?

[64:08]

Well, I don't know what I'm saying. But as far as their realization, would they have the same kind of advancements? I don't know. I'm sorry. I think that is what Dogen is saying. He's talking about the practice. Please. I'm just wondering if mu-shin is different than just saying without mind or something. Yeah, mu-shin is not lack of mind. That mu-shin is mind of mu. This is a linguistic question. We don't have a word in this language, behavior. It's just like what and this always point at objects. Does Mu in Japanese or what in Japanese have this ability to point at what can't be pointed at?

[65:16]

Or is it just Dogen doing that? Not only Dogen, but in Chinese Zen text, Chinese Zen master often use this expression, what or how. in order to point out something which cannot be defined or grasped. That is the problem of translation. It's very difficult. And ウ and ム are the same. ビ and ビン and ノンビン doesn't make sense to me. ウ and ム make sense to me. But then, in terms of rich Buddhist tradition, I think that in this text, maybe it doesn't happen in this context, but I think that English can say things that imply something intangible. Do you find that in Chinese? Yeah. Of course, we can. I mean, English, our American Zen master can find some good expressions.

[66:23]

I'll just add that. I mean, I'm doing this because I've been wanting to come find you. I forget where we are. I forget where we are. Okay. Okay. So this is how Dogon interprets all living beings, in the sense of enka and saiyan.

[67:28]

And he said, if we don't understand this word in this way, it's not our Buddha way. And... Next, Dogen said, this person, this Zen Master's saying is not complete. He only referred to being Buddha nature, or wu busho. Here, the essential significance of the National Teacher's utterance is simply, all sentient beings, being-Buddha-nature is u-bhusho. He only points out u-bhusho as being. So, Dogen is questioning to the Master, In that case, they could not be being Buddha-nature unless they were sentient beings.

[68:34]

He said sentient beings are both sentient and insentient, so it includes everything. But he said, but if we simply hear or take this in-kind saying, all living beings are buddha-nature, then only living beings or sentient beings are all buddha-nature. And his question is what about buddha? So we should ask the natural teacher, are all buddhas being buddha-nature or not? Does Buddha have Buddha-nature or not? Does Buddha need to have Buddha-nature? If the Buddha is already Buddha, why Buddha need Buddha-nature? Only human beings need, not human beings, only bodhisattva need Buddha-nature.

[69:39]

Buddha is already Buddha, so Buddha doesn't need Buddha-nature. But anyway, he said... Yeah. This is the question to... Dōgen's question to the Master. Are all Buddhas in Buddha-nature or not? We should probe and question things in this way. That means we should really inquire very precisely and in detail. So we have to really think in order to clarify what is buddha-nature and what is buddha-way, what is our practice. It's not a big thing, at least Dogen's saying. Our practice is very simple and straightforward and precise. When we sit, just sit. When we eat, just eat.

[70:43]

When we cook, just cook. That's all. But this, just do it. Or in the case of Zazen, just sit, or shikan taza. There's kind of very, how can I say, very precise and kind of a logical, not explanation, but philosophical background. So if we try to understand the meaning of this just doing something, sitting or eating or cooking or cleaning. It has really deep meaning. So we need to inquire what this means, even though our actual practice is very simple. And we should examine why it is not said, all sentient beings are, as such, buddha-mecha.

[71:48]

This, as such, is issai-shijo-soku-bussho. So, why this master didn't say, all sentient beings, soku-bussho. But instead he said, all sentient beings are u-bussho. What's the difference between these two expressions? So, he is asking, and he doesn't give any answer. That means he is asking to us. And, next, he is saying we should take this and digest this within our practice. That is, The being of being-Buddha-nature must, without fail, fall away. Fall away. I don't think this is a good translation, but this is another translation of Datsura, dropping off.

[72:58]

So being of being-Buddha-nature, or U-Busho, should be dropped off. Then only Buddha-nature remains. And this dropping off, falling away, I'm sorry, falling away, or drop off, or datsuraku, is a single steel rod. It's one piece of steel rod. That means one single path or practice. And it's very solid. There's no way to bend. very straightforward path of bodhisattva-dhatu or the buddhahood. And yet, this single still road as our practice is a path of birds in flight. Path of birds is an expression from Tozan. Tozan Ryokai, the founder of Sōtō, Chinese Sōtō school.

[74:02]

That means, you know, that this is a path of migrating birds. You know, each bird has a different route, or course, or path of migrating very far. And yet, somehow, they know their path, their way, how to, where, which direction they should go. And yet, there is no place, there is no sign on the path. So, they fly the same, exactly same path each year, but the place is not remained. And our practice should be the same. That means, placeless practice. That means, we cannot say, I have been practicing 35 years. And I did, you know, how many sessions?

[75:08]

If we are thinking in such a way, our path is not traceless. So, that means we just keep going. Keep going without thinking how far we have been flying. So, this means this OOBE show should be simply a practice fall haphazardly and keep flying without remaining in the trace. Hence, all Buddha-natures are being-sentient beings. He changed the order. All Buddha-nature have shujo, living beings. This is the way we become kind of liberated from the concept and grasping to the concept.

[76:13]

You know, if we only say all living beings have Buddha nature, then we have certain fixed concept is created in our mind. All living beings and Buddha nature and these can be one. But he always change the order or make it almost nonsense. But in a way, that means we have to always destroy the so-called ready-made concept about what is Buddha nature, and what is living beings, and what is Buddha. This is a kind of process of deconstruction. And this process of deconstruction is a process of liberation. Whatever we grasp, whatever we understand, we need to become free from that understanding and keep sitting, keep practicing.

[77:17]

Endlessly. Insight. What insight means? Something we see? I might ask a question of Zazen, then maybe insight into the answer. In our Zazen, we just keep letting go. Right. And this keep letting go is a process of liberation. So, and yet if we, if insight means we are thinking about that thing, or if we follow Dogen's, you know, way of thinking, then that is not Zazen. That means, kind of, knowing or wisdom. Right. So, what Dogen is saying is, just be. Don't think. Or, just see. Don't think. Yeah, but knowing is not thinking. Right.

[78:21]

Knowing is knowing. Thinking is thinking. What we think, what we know. Let's see. So, this is the truth that not only it preaches away. I don't know what preaches away means, but the word Doge uses is setō. Set is to explain or discuss, and tō is liberation. or going through, go through something, some kind of walls or obstacles. This is also meaning revelation. Even though we discuss and explain and express, still we need to be free from that explanation, that wording, that concept. And that is the root of revelation.

[79:23]

This is the truth that not only preaches away sentient beings, but also preaches completely Buddha nature as well. So this is a process of revelation. Otherwise we are chained by the idea of Buddha nature. Even if the national teacher did not give direct expression to his understanding, just as it was, that does not mean there will not come a time when he will be able to do so. That means, Dogen says, this expression by Enkan Saiyan is not perfect. We should, you know, make more deeper, broader and detailed, what is the word?

[80:34]

Inquire, yeah, inquiry. But the master, this Zen master is still in the process of what he is saying. Nor does it mean the words he speaks at this time are ineffectual or devoid of essential meaning. So this is not incorrect, or this is not a mistake, but this is incomplete. Again, although he himself has not necessarily grasped the truth he embodies in himself, So even though he sees the truth, but he is not yet ready to express it completely. He is nonetheless possessed of the four elements, five skandhas, and skin fresh, bone and marrow, body of the Buddha nature.

[81:36]

So we have all five skandhas. and skin, flesh, bone, and marrow. That is buddha nature. That is all we have. But still we don't understand buddha nature. This is our life. And our life is buddha nature. But we don't see, we don't understand, and we cannot express the buddha nature within our day-to-day activities. So, that's why we need practice. And practice is also a function of Buddha-nature. And sometimes, in this way, a real utterance may take a lifetime to make. It's really difficult to make even one very short expression which really expresses the Dharma of Buddha-nature.

[82:43]

And he said, sometimes one may be engaged for several lifetimes in making an atlas without knowing it. So, you know, buddhas and ancestors creating some atlas or expression of dharma. But it takes really long time. and long experiences of practice. And what he's saying is it takes several or many lifetimes to create a very precise expression of Dharma. So, even those Chinese Zen masters are not complete. So, it's almost saying that it's best left unsaid.

[83:48]

Yes. Just the experience of co-practice. Yes. Not in a game zone. Hm? Not in a game zone. Any questions? Please. Let me just add this last paragraph. It says, even if the natural things do not really matter, And again, although he himself has not necessarily grown, he's not saying he hasn't. He's saying people listen and can't tell. Is that right? And maybe he as a speaker can't tell either. I think he doesn't try to be polite. I have a question. We are studying also in the darkest period of the Tenzo Kyoko, and the Tenzo Kyoko is a very precise day-to-day life of the Tenzo, of the group.

[84:53]

How do you show this Tenzo Kyoko's power there, in the everyday? Sato Gen is discussing or explaining in Tenzo Kyokunin how Wu Buddha nature works. You know, Tenzo is one particular karma or condition. I need to be at Tenzo, means I have to work in the kitchen and prepare meals for members of the community. You know, this is same as, you know, a teacher. Buddhist, and because I'm a Buddhist teacher or a priest, I have to, as my duty or responsibility, I try to do my best to present my understanding of Dharma.

[85:55]

That is my, not only responsibility, but this is a way Wu Buddha nature is working through this body and mind of Shohaku. And in the Tenzo Kyokun, Dogen Zenji used the example of Tenzo working in the kitchen. How this Wu Buddha nature functions in our daily lives. Work together with people who work together in the kitchen and also with the food ingredient and also water or fire and any utensils and also in order to be tenzo, we have to think of time, timing of doing things. In order to offer the food in the best condition, timing is very important.

[87:04]

If we cook, you know, the cooking preparations done long before eating, the taste might be, how can I say, not best. So we have to think of time. And we also need to think of numbers, how many people are there. who eat this meal, so we need to think of quantity of the food. And, of course, quality is most important. Quality, quantity, and timing is three most important things in the work of Tenzo. And this is how, you know, in the kitchen, the Buddha nature works, I think.

[88:04]

And in the Tendokyo Kondorin taught, teaches, what kind of inner attitude the person working in the kitchen needs to maintain to function as an expression of buddha nature. And when we sit in the Zen, we are no buddha nature. we are completely free. But how can we express this new buddha nature through this conditioned body and mind within certain conditioned situation is another aspect of our practice. So sitting or zazen and walking outside of zendo is basically the expression of Mu-Buddha nature and U-Buddha nature. So Buddha nature is really a practice, I think.

[89:11]

Any other questions?

[89:16]

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