Minnesota Zen Education Center in San Francisco. Shohakasan was ordained by Kosho Uchiyama Roshi in 1970, and he spent over 30 years working with primarily Western students. He served as the interim head teacher at Minnesota Zen Center for four years shortly after Kategori Roshi's death. And if I understand right, his life mission is to make the teachings of Dogen Zenji available to as many beings as possible. Dogen Zenji being the brilliant 13th century Zen master and the founder of the Soto Zen school. He has worked on and completed many translations and commentaries on Dogen's work. some of which he has been sharing with us this weekend in a genjo-e retreat.

[01:05]

I have found his true gift to be in his deep gazen practice, his shining presence, and his insightful teaching. So it is with heartfelt gratitude that I present Shohaku Okamura. Thank you. Good morning, everyone.

[02:21]

As Sona-san introduced, since Friday, we have been studying one of Togen Zenji's writings, entitled in Japanese, Shobo Genzo Maka Hanya Haramitsu. And this is a kind of comment, Dogen's comment on the Heart Sutra. So, I have been talking about Heart Sutra and his comments. And in his writings, Dogen Zenji quotes a poem written by his own teacher, Tendo Nyojo Zenji. And because we didn't have enough time, I didn't have time to talk on this poem. So as a kind of a conclusion of this Genzo-e retreat this morning, I'd like to talk on this poem.

[03:36]

And I think this poem itself has kind of a wonderful poem, and also deep meaning, and also express what is Prajna in our practice. First, let me read the poem, and very short comments by Dogen on this poem. If you have this text, page 4, My late master, the ancient Buddha, said, the whole body of the wind bell is like a mouse hanging in empty space without distinguishing the winds from east, west,

[04:47]

south or north, together expressing Prajna equally to all beings. Di-Ding-Dong, Diao Di-Ding-Dong. This is a poem, very short. And Dogen's short comment on this poem is, this is how the Prajna Prajna is wisdom. Prajna has been expressed authentically through Buddhas and ancestors. The whole body is Prajna. All others, which include the self, are Prajna. The whole self, which includes others, is Prajna. The entire universe is West, South, and North is Prajna.

[05:52]

So basically what he's saying is everything is Prajna. I'd like to introduce another translation of the same poem. And I think it shows kind of a difficulty of a translation. This translation is done by Thomas Cleary. Thomas Cleary is a very great translator, one of the most important translators of not only Buddhism or Zen, but also Chinese classics, like Taoist texts. And he translated some of Dogen's. And this Shobo Genzo Makahanya Haramitsu is one of his translations in his book entitled, I forget the title, but anyway, his translation is as follows.

[06:55]

My late teacher said, the whole body is like a mouse hung in space. Without question of east, west, south, or north winds, It equally tells others of wisdom. Drop after drop freezes. This is the speaking of wisdom of the lineage of Buddha's Angems Adepts. It is whole-body wisdom, whole-other wisdom, whole-self wisdom, whole-East-West-South-North wisdom. So, in his translation, The first three lines are almost the same, but his translation of the last line is very different. He says, drop after drop freezes.

[07:57]

I don't think he understands this poem. I mean, the last line of this poem is onomatopoeia. That is only the sound, sound of the bell ringing. And yet, each Chinese character has a meaning. And Thomas clearly translates as a meaning instead of sound. And, you know, drop after drop freezes doesn't make any sense in this poem. And when I first read this translation, I was really glad. So happy, you know, he was a really great translator. Even such a great translator made a mistake. So, I can justify my mistake. So, I'm pretty sure if he translated this translation without seeing the commentary,

[09:06]

commentary of Dogen's teaching. If he sees all the commentary, it mentions this is an onomatopoeia, just a sound. So I really admire him. He could translate this without reading commentary. I really don't understand. I'm a Japanese, but I don't really understand Dogen's writings without commentaries. So he's a really great translator, but sometimes there are little mistakes. And I'm happy about that. All human beings cannot be perfect. So, anyway, this term is about, you know, the Prajna, or sometimes in English we call it wisdom beyond wisdom. And the Heart Sutra, that is Prajnaparamita Fridaya Sutra, is one of the most well-known and popular sutras within Mahayana Buddhism.

[10:22]

So, I think many of you are already familiar But the sutra, or the teaching of the sutra, is quite difficult to understand, actually. And the last two days, I have been talking about my understanding of the Heart Sutra and Dogen's comments on the Heart Sutra. And what Dogen said is, everything, each and every being, all things, in this world, including our body and mind, that is five skandhas, or five aggregates in the Heart Sutra, are prajna themselves. Dogen's logic is, you know, all five skandhas are empty, and this prajna is the wisdom that sees the emptiness of all beings.

[11:24]

You know, emptiness is the way all those five aggregates, that means dupa, the material, and other four are function of our mind. And that's all, that is entire life of ourselves. In our case of human beings, material means body, and other four elements or aggregates are our mind. And those are all empty. Those are all themselves empty. That means all of them, all of us actually, all of our body and mind are really empty and show that reality all the time. So actually our body and mind are itself Prajna. That is Dogen's logic. So, what he is saying in his comment on Prajna Paramita Sutra is we have to venerate each and everything we encounter in our daily lives as a prajna.

[12:41]

Dogen Zenji was a founder of Japanese Soto Zen tradition. in the year of 1200. So he was born about 800 years ago. And he was ordained as a Japanese Tendai monk when he was 13 years old. And yet somehow he didn't like that school or that monastery and he left and he started to practice Zen Buddhism. At his time, Zen was something very new in Japan. Zen was transmitted from China to Japan by a Japanese master whose name was Eisai. Eisai transmitted Dharma in the very end of the 12th century, I think 1192.

[13:52]

So, about 10 years before Dogen was born. And this master established the first Japanese Zen monastery named Kenrin-ji in Kyoto. And he died in 1215, at the time Dogen was 15 years old, two years after he was ordained. So, probably he didn't meet Eisai, but Dogen practiced Zen with one of Eisai's disciples, whose name was Myōzen. And Dogen practiced Zen with this master, Myōzen, for several years until he was 23. His teacher, Myōzen and Dōgen, thought they need to go to China to study and practice Zen with authentic Chinese Zen masters.

[15:09]

And so they went to China together. A few, two more monks went together with them. So, when Dogen went to China, he was 23 years old, very young. And his teacher, Myōzen, was, I think, in his 40s. And for the first one year, Dogen and Myōzen practiced at Tien-tung Monastery. At that time, the abbot of the monastery was Rinzai, the master. they practiced Rinzai Zen. And somehow Dogen left the monastery and did a kind of a pilgrimage to meet other teachers to find a right teacher for him.

[16:10]

But his biography said he couldn't find any suitable teacher for him. And he was kind of disappointed of, you know, Chinese Zen. And he went back to the Tenton Monastery to meet his teacher, I mean Myōzen. And yet, unfortunately, I think right after he went back to the monastery, Myōzen died. He was very young, I mean, other than Master, 42 or 43. So, he couldn't find his Master, his teacher, in China, and he lost his Japanese teacher. So, he was like a Dharma orphan. But, fortunately, he met this Zen Master, Tendo Nyojo,

[17:18]

because the previous master died. This Tenzo Nyōjō became the abbot of the same monastery, and Dogen met this master, Tenzo Nyōjō. I think around the same time, his Japanese teacher, Myōzen, died. So, it was very fortunate for him. And Dogen found this Nyojo was a true teacher for him. So he became his disciple. And he practiced with this master. Tendo Nyojo was not Rinzai, but Soto Zen Master. And Dogen practiced with this master for about two years. from 1225 to 1227. And within two years, he received Dharma transmission from this teacher.

[18:24]

And he went back to Japan by himself with the lyrics of his original teacher's music. And during that period, Dogen Zenji practiced with this master, Tendo Nyojo Zenji, or Tien-Ton Ryujin in Chinese pronunciation. He recorded, Dogen recorded his conversation, his questions, and Nyojo's answers to his questions. And that record is still available. record was called Hōkyōki. There are many questions Dōgen gave to his teacher, and Nyōjō gave him answers, and Dōgen recorded in Chinese.

[19:27]

And one of the sections, one of the conversations Dōgen had with Tendō Nyōjō was about this poem, a poem about the wind bell. And Dogen really admired this poem. If you have the text of Mahaprajna Paramita, I quote, translated and quote that conversation between Dogen and Nyojo in the footnote of the poem. So, please read it. I don't think I have time to read it for now, so please try to read it. But Dogen really admired this poem, and it was very important for him. Probably, as I said on Friday, this writing, Shobo Genzo Makahane Haramitsu, is one of his earliest writings.

[20:40]

He wrote this in 1233, so he was still 33 years old. As a Zen master, he was very young, and that was the year he founded, Dogen founded, his own monastery. That means, so his Sangha was very young, and this was written during the first summer practice period. message or teaching from Dogen to his disciples. And probably one of the reasons he wrote, he presented this writing to his disciples in their first practice period was, probably, this is my guess, but he wanted to to his disciples. So, in a sense, this writing is a comment, his comment on the Heart Sutra, but from another perspective, this is a comment on this poem.

[21:55]

So, it has two meanings, I think. So, now I'd like to start to talk about this poem. This poem is about the wind bell, or in Japanese word, fūrin. Fū is wind, and rin is bell. Probably you have seen a Japanese wind bell. I found, you know, some kind of souvenir stores in San Francisco. It's a very small thing and sometimes it's a metal thing, sometimes pottery or ceramic. And it has something in the bell and it has a paper, a sheet of paper on which there's some writing of poems.

[23:03]

fooling or a wind bell, very common in Japan. But the wind bell Nyojo is describing is not such a small thing. I think the wind bell is much bigger, probably as big as that bell. And that wind bell is hung you know, on the four corners of the temple buildings, like a Buddha Hall, on the eaves. So it's kind of a big one. And it has something like a sheet of paper, not a paper, but metal, which when the wind blows, that metal hits the bell and makes a sound. So, the shape of that windmill, you know, there's an empty space inside, and there's a sheet of metal, and it's like a tongue.

[24:20]

So, Nyojo said in the first line, the whole body is like a mouth. Hanging in empty space is a description of the shape of the wind bell. It looks like our mouth. My mouth is like this, and there's a tongue. So the shape of the wind bell is similar to our mouth. And inside of our mouth is empty, and there's something called tongue, and that speaks. make, you know, sound and communicate. So this empty space with tongue, you know, make expression and communicate with all beings whenever, you know, wind blows.

[25:26]

That is the meaning. and that is hanging in an empty space. That means it's really hanging in an empty space. But in the conversation in Hōkyōki, Dōgen asked a question to Nyojō, whether Nyojō referred to an empty space as a sky or air on the air. His question is, is the empty space referred to one of the form or root elements? Root or form is one of the five aggregates. And space, in a sense, is one of the five aggregates.

[26:33]

And Dogen's question is, does Nyojo refer to that space as one of the five aggregates? And he continued, skeptical people may think empty space is one of the form elements or lupa elements, one of the five skandhas. Students today don't understand Buddhadharma clearly. and consider the blue sky as the empty space. I'm sorry for them, so this is not really a question, but this is Dogen's comment to, or Dogen's interpretation to this poem. And Nyajo said, this empty space is prajna, so it's not really an empty space. you know, what Nyojo means.

[27:36]

So this means this wind bell, like a mouth, is hanging within prajna, not an empty space like a sky. That is the meaning. So this poem is really about prajna, not an empty sky. That is an important point to understand this poem. That's why, you know, Dogen quotes a part of Prajna Paramita Sutra and said, Prajna is empty sky. Empty sky is Prajna. And this wind bell, without distinguishing or discriminating the winds from east, west, south, or north, You know, wind came from all different directions.

[28:38]

Sometimes from north, sometimes from south, sometimes from east, sometimes from west. But the wind bell never asked, which wind? But whichever wind, the bell just bring the same sound. kind of wind means four kinds of conditions. We are the empty. We are the wind bell. And, you know, we have many different kinds of winds. Some wind, you know, came from north, and it's very cold wind. And wind from south makes us warm. From 1975 to 1981, I lived in Massachusetts, and one of the activities we did in the early spring or end of winter was make maple sugaring.

[29:52]

We hung a bucket on each maple tree and collected the sap. and evaporate and make maple syrup. It's a lot of work. You know, we had to walk in the snow. Sometimes the snow is really deep, so it's really difficult to walk on snow. And it took us almost five hours to collect all the sap. I think, 2,000 buckets. But that time, between winter and spring, some days it's very warm. Not very, but quite warm. And some days it's very cold. The change of temperature is so big. And the maple trees

[30:57]

get the water and put it into each branches as a preparation for the spring to, you know, bud and leaves and flowers. And, you know, the trees suck the water. I heard that the temperature in the daytime should be below zero. And the temperature in the nighttime should be above zero, and temperature in the night should be below zero. This difference of temperature caused the water to get into the tree. It's really like a miracle to me. Anyway, one day I collected the sap. You know, in the mornings, it was very warm.

[32:02]

You know, wind came from south, like a spring wind. But suddenly, the direction of wind changed. Wind came, started, came from north. And I was surprised. Within about 10 minutes, all the buckets, all the sap in the buckets are frozen. And until then, it was water, or sap. But within 10 minutes, all the buckets were stuck in the buckets, completely frozen. So, you know, the effect or influence of the wind in certain conditions is really powerful. And in our lives, we have the same experience often. You know, sometimes we enjoy our life. It's so nice, so peaceful and enjoyable, and we can be really peace and harmony with all beings.

[33:08]

And yet, sometimes, so suddenly, our life becomes so difficult, and it seems, you know, very cold winter suddenly came, and we have to be really patient. And yet, any condition never lasts forever. It's become warm and cold, warm and cold. It repeats this difference. But basically, spring is coming while we are doing maple sugaring. But spring doesn't last forever. It's become a hot summer, and it's cooled down again, and again we have winter. Our life is like the cycle of the seasons, and we need to be ready to go to, you know, sit and stand upright and go through any

[34:22]

in conditions whether it's like a spring or summer or fall or winter. And I think that is what we do in our Zazen. We just keep sitting upright posture in whatever condition we need to go through. So, to me, I learned this attitude to go through any conditions. If we have a very warm spring day, we can just enjoy it. But when we have cold winter, we need to also keep upright sitting or upright doing things or work with people and things with this upright posture. That is what I learned from my practice of sitting upright facing the wall. And facing the wall is a very good teacher.

[35:28]

The wall doesn't teach anything, but I study many things from the wall. The wall says nothing. It's plain white, often white, and there's no message and no object. But when we sit facing the wall, so many things happen inside of ourselves. And because there's no object, it's very clear that everything happening in our mind is illusion. It's not reality. And yet it's so difficult to let go. But what we need to do in our Zazen is just letting go of any Any thought, or feeling, or emotion, or whatever, just let go. We don't try to push them away, or hide them, or fight against them, or cling to them, or chase after them.

[36:30]

We really do nothing but sitting upright. To me, this is really a best teacher. So, our zazen is like a wind bell. In whatever condition, whatever kind of wind we have, north wind, south wind, you know, we try to make the sound of emptiness, sound of prajna. How can we do that? I think, is our practice of Prajna. And, you know, the wind from East and the wind from West, and came from East, I think.

[37:33]

But actually, Japan is in the West, from here. So, we don't really sure which is East and which is West. South and... North and South is very clear. But East and West is kind of a relative. You know, we usually think Japan is East. And Buddhism is called the Eastern religion. But this is the kind of usage of language created by the Western people. European people, actually. You know, for European people, Europe is the center of the world. That side is east, and this side is west. So, you know, we don't really know which is west and which is east. It's all around.

[38:36]

So when we go to east, we come back to the same place. So there's no such thing as wind from east or west, but because we need to kind of take a position within certain kind of an atlas or map. And we think where we are now is the center of the world. And left side is west, and right side is east. Without making this kind of map or atlas, we cannot tell where we are. So somehow, in order to understand where we are, who we are, somehow we need to make a map.

[39:39]

And we kind of calculate or measure from the edge, you know, where we are now. And relatively speaking, You know, Buddhism came from East, actually West. But I think we can interpret this as a difference of cultures. You know, we are from different cultures. If the United States is the center of the world, Japan is in the West, and Europe is in the East. So, European culture is Eastern culture, and Asian culture is Western culture. That is plagiarism. There is no fixed nature. Not only from East and West, you know, we are, or people living in this country, are really from almost every part of the world.

[40:53]

And we are living together in one place or one country or within one society. So we have to encounter with the wind from so many different angles, directions. And if we reject certain wind from certain direction, then we are not expressing prajna. We are not like the wind bell. But wind bell is always playing together freely with any wind from any direction. And that is really, I think, important for us, not only people living in this country, but because this entire world becomes one society, one community.

[41:57]

You know, we have to meet with people from very different cultural, national, religious backgrounds, and each So, when we meet each person, we are kind of encountering winds from different directions. How can we, you know, discuss and express the sound of prajna, sound of wind bell? That is the point of this poem, when Nyojo says, without distinguishing the winds from east, west, south, or north, together expressing prajna equally to all beings. So, because the wind bell is empty,

[43:04]

the same sound of emptiness. And yet, because we have some clinging to my point of view, my idea, my way of doing things, and if we encounter other people who view things from a completely different angle, we don't really understand, and we think they are weird, they are strange, we are okay, they are not so okay. You know, this kind of, how can I say, feeling of difference or strange creates some tension or conflict. some extreme cases, we start to fight, argue, fight, and kill each other.

[44:15]

And we think, if they are not here in this world, this world is in order, peaceful. But because of those people, this world becomes confused. So our job mission is to eliminate those people. This kind of idea is opposite of the sound of emptiness. How can we live together within peace and harmony with everyone from any direction of the world? I think that's very important for all of us living in this age. Otherwise, you know, if we try to kill everyone who does not share the same idea, same system of values, same picture of the world, then we cannot expect any time we can live with peace and harmony.

[45:27]

So to, I think, to really awaken to the reality of emptiness, that means we are just a collection of things. So our view is also a collection of things and created by our karma. Karma means our expression, I mean, experiences from our birth. because I was born, I often say, I was born in Japan and grown up as a Japanese and educated in Japanese school system. My first language is, of course, Japanese. And when I think in using Japanese language and Japanese concept, already my way of thinking and my way of viewing things and my way of doing things is already limited as Japanese. And because I became a Buddhist, you know, my point of view is Japanese Buddhist.

[46:35]

And I'm a man, so I have to say Japanese male Buddhist priest. That is how I view things. That is the place or position from which I view things. And when I encounter something familiar or similar, I feel, you know, comfortable. But when I encounter with something very different, I feel something uncomfortable. So I think important point is how can we become even a little bit flexible and to find a little room that some truth in their way of viewings. And that is to see the limitation of my view created from my experiences or my background.

[47:41]

I think it's really important. And that is one of the ways we practice prajna. Study prajna and practice prajna and express the prajna. together with other people and beings. I think that is what we can study or learn from this poem. And basically, in the last line, describe the sound of the wind bell as, you know, di, din, don, ryo, di, din, don. And this has no meaning. It's just a sound. And this just sound without any meaning is a sound of emptiness. And, you know, we cannot

[48:49]

cling to any sound if there's no meaning. And I think this is important. I mean, the sound without meaning is like, to me, like a wall. When I sit facing the wall, that wall is the same as this meaningless sound. In last May, we had another retreat for studying Shobo Genzo, Dogen's Shobo Genzo, and we studied his writings on Keisei Sanshoku, that is, sound of valley streams and colors of mountains. And what Dogen says is, sound of valley streams, the sound of valley streams, the sound of water, flowing in a stream is expanding Dharma, preaching or speaking the Dharma, Dharma of emptiness and freedom.

[50:02]

And the colors of the mountains are Buddha's form or Buddha's appearance. of Dogen, I talked about my personal experience. When I was 15 years old, I was a high school student. I took a kind of an exam, and somehow the classroom I studied in was next to the tennis court. Outside the window, there's a metal net, and it looks like a prison to me. And beyond the tennis court, there's another school building, and above the roof of that building, the birds are flying.

[51:09]

And when I saw those birds, I felt, you know, they are free, but I'm in prison. And, you know, what I did was I erased all the answers I wrote and get out of the class. I wanted to escape from the prison. And on that afternoon, I took a walk to the mountain and there was a valley stream. And at that time I was, same as many teenagers, I was a poet. And somehow I didn't know why, and I knew nothing about Zen or Buddhism at that time. But somehow I wanted to really hear the sound of valley stream. You know, in Japanese we have many onomatopoeias.

[52:14]

There are several onomatopoeias for the sound of water running. And I really want to hear which one this water is making. And I really try to hear the sound of a stream. And I tried it for I think about one hour, and I found I couldn't. Any, you know, those automata didn't work. And I finally thought, you know, there's no, it's not possible to copy that sound using, you know, human, the sound human beings can pronounce. So, it's beyond our kind of grasping, our interpretation, our understanding.

[53:14]

To me, that was the very first time I tried to hear, I think, from... I didn't know that at that time, but from now, I think that was the first time I hear the sound of emptiness or prajna. That is beyond my thinking. my understanding, my trying to interpret things and put things in order in my picture of the world. And after that one hour, I felt like I was released and healed in a certain degree. So, I was really released or, not released, but saved by that sound of a stream. But, after that, I wanted to figure out what that is.

[54:21]

That was my kind of a starting point of my journey of searching truth. After that, I often escaped from classroom. That became my habit. And I went to a library and tried to read many books on poetry, literature, philosophy, and religion. And one of the books I read was my teacher's book, and I became his disciple. So that was the very beginning of my study of Prajna. And when I read this poem by Tendo-nyojo, I remember that experience when I was a teenager. I didn't really understand the meaning of that experience. So, what I'm talking now is my interpretation from 35 years, more than that, almost 40 years later.

[55:27]

But I think all of us have that kind of experience, but we don't really understand the meaning, the sound of our reality beyond our kind of a picture, in which things can be meaningful. But if we find something which we don't really appreciate, we feel something uncomfortable. to figure out what this is. But I think as far as we are trying to do this, and of course we cannot live without doing such a kind of effort to interpret things in the world and make a kind of a reasonable map.

[56:28]

We cannot live. And yet, if we live only Only on that kind of a limitation, or realm, we don't really hear the reality of our life, because our life is beyond our thinking. So it's kind of important and also precious to let go of our thought and try to hear the sound of emptiness, or the sound of something beyond our thinking. This poem of Windbell shows us that that is Prajna in Buddhism. I think we have 10 more minutes. For the people who participated, we can retreat. I'd like to finish this writing, so let me just read.

[57:30]

the final paragraph. I don't think it's difficult to understand. He quoted another kind of a conversation, not a conversation, but Buddha's sayings from the Mahāparājñāparamita Sūtra. I just read it. Shakyamuni Buddha said, Shariputra, all these sentient beings should make offerings and prostrations to Prajnaparamita as they do to a living Buddha. So we need to venerate and make offering the Prajnaparamita as we do to living actual Buddha. They should contemplate Prajnaparamita just as they make offerings and prostrations to a Buddha-Bhagavata.

[58:37]

Buddha-Bhagavata is an Indian word which usually translates as World Honored One. What is the reason? Prajnaparamita is not different from Buddha-Bhagavata. A Buddha-Bhagavata is not different from Prajnaparamita. So, Buddha is Prajnaparamita and Prajnaparamita is itself Buddha. Prajnaparamita is itself Buddha Bhagavata. Buddha Bhagavata is itself Prajnaparamita. Here the same kind of logic as form is emptiness, emptiness is form. So, Buddha is a form of emptiness or Prajna. What is the reason, Shaliputra? This is because all supreme awakened Tathagatas issue from Prajnaparamita. Shariputra, this is because all Bodhisattvas, Mahasattvas, Pratyekabuddhas, Arhats, non-returners, once-returners, stream-enterers, and so on issue from Prajnaparamita.

[59:50]

Shariputra, This is because the Way of the Ten Good Deeds in the world, the Four Quiet Meditations, the Four Formless Samadhis, and the Five Divine Powers all issue from Prajnaparamita. So Prajnaparamita is a source of all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and all Buddhist practitioners and all Buddhist teachings and practices. And the rest of this writing is Dogen's comment on this quote. Therefore, a Buddha Bhagavata is itself Prajna Paramita. Buddha is Prajna. Prajna Paramita is nothing other than all beings. This is what Dogen said in the beginning of this writing. All beings, five skandhas, are Prajna. That means Buddha is all beings. and all beings are Buddha.

[60:52]

And all these beings are empty in form, without arising or extinguishing, neither defiled nor pure, without increasing nor decreasing. This is again from the Heart Sutra. And actualizing this prajnaparamita is to actualize Buddha-Bhagavata. So actualize this prajna is actualizing Buddha. And this is actualizing of all beings, and all beings are always actualized. That means everything actualizing or happening within and without ourselves are prajna, and thus that is Buddha. So, as our practice and as our study, we Dogen urge us to inquire into it, what is it, and practice it. So we need to inquire and practice that Prajnaparamita.

[62:00]

And making offerings and prostrations to Prajnaparamita is attending and serving Buddha Bhagavata. So to see what is most appropriate things to do as our practice in this situation, at this moment, and try to be very attentive and mindful, and try to do anything, whether it's small or big, try to do things which is helpful for entire network of interdependent origination. And that is, according to Dogen, that is attending and serving the Buddha. So, attending and serving all beings or any situation is attending and serving the Buddha. And he said, this last sentence is really, to me, very powerful.

[63:04]

Again, to turn it over, he said, attending and serving all beings is itself Buddha-Bhagavata. So, attending and serving to all beings is our practice of Prajnaparamita, but Dogen says from the opposite side that this attending and serving is itself Buddha. Clearly, kind of strange things to say, but that really like a, you know, a wind bell. You know, a wind bell responds with any wind from any direction. And when a wind bell practices in that way, the practice of a wind bell is itself Buddha. It's kind of a strange thing to say, but if we think it very deeply,

[64:07]

It's time to stop talking, but if you have any questions or comments, please say, please. The last line, the word that goes with that is Anomanopoeia. Pardon me? Anomanopoeia. Anomanopoeia. What is that? That's what it is. It's like when you hear a bee, It's a word that's supposed to be like a noise. But a buzz, you know, like you said though, it cannot really be, you can't capture what a sound sounds like, but the word is very hard. So that's pretty good. And, you know, with culture, you know, I realized that I come from, you know, the Occidental tradition of thinking, you know. Occidental's a little bit better than Southwestern, because we are set in a relative direction.

[65:18]

But growing up in Los Angeles, the Oriental social speech culture was very, it was all over the place. A lot of my classes, most of the students were Asian. So I didn't know what culture I really was. I thought I had to pick, and I've always been struggling. Which is your own background? Yeah. Which is your own background? Where are you family from? My family, they're Southern Europeans. Southern Europeans. And they were in California and Utah and Mexico before they were in the United States. So, I came to the Midwest, and people didn't, a lot of them didn't know that I speak English. I spoke English first. I didn't speak Spanish. My family, some of them knew, but there's really no reason for me to speak it.

[66:25]

Even though I hear Spanish all over, the Spanish language is very common in the city and everything. It's named after them. I felt pressure too sometimes to find an identity, and sometimes I did think that every time I tried, it was very painful. And so, then I left with no identity. I can't do that either. So, you know, understanding, approaching and letting go, and then it helps to loosen the pressure. You know, there's still stuck identity anyway. Me too. I'm still Japanese. I'm still Buddhist. But this is my karma. So I have to live with my karma and yet try to be flexible. So it doesn't mean we need to lose our identity. So I try to be a Japanese Buddhist and yet try to listen from other point of view.

[67:34]

I don't think I need to stop being Japanese Buddhist. But if I claim to, you know, Japanese Buddhism is only one absolutely right way of doing things, then that is a problem. We must be flexible like a wind bell. Okay. Please. You mentioned reading the first book by your teacher. The book is titled in Japanese, Jiko, or Self, but it's not translated into English yet. I'd like to translate when I have time. When you were talking, you mentioned the whole piece of perspective. I have my perspective, you have your perspective. much to our own perspective is right.

[68:41]

I guess the question that I have for me is, you know, as I try to live in this world realistically, just talking about peace and harmony seems like a little naive. Yes. And so the question for me is, how does conflict fit into the world that you're talking about? That is a big question. And I think we need to As Dogen said, we should inquire into it. I think no one in this world has definitely the right answer to that question. I think all of us are in the process of finding that answer. And for me, within my lifetime, what I'm trying to do is to practice and share my understanding of Dharma with, in this case, American people. In my case, not only American, but people who practice with me and try to, how can I say, offer at least one perspective of life and share with people, not only idea, but also through practice.

[69:59]

It's really small things, but this is the only thing I can I can do to this world where people are looking for the way how to live in harmony within so much conflict and problems and painful conditions. So, you know, each one of us have not so, you know, much great power to resolve all the problems at once. So we have to take a step each moment in order to be realistic. Otherwise, we can be, how can I say, not the opposite of realistic. Unrealistic, like a dream. We enter the world of dream again.

[71:01]

So, I think we should do whatever we can do. given a little bit better grace, I think. OK. Please. OK. Thank you very much for listening.

[71:24]

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