2004.05.04-serial.00032

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EB-00032
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How's it going?
It's going great.
Well, here we are again.
This afternoon I'm remembering when
fairly early on when I was the head cook here.
You know, nowadays you need to devote yourself for several years to be the head cook.
But when I became head cook, I had been cooking for two and a half months and practicing Zen for two years.
Things were different in those days.
And we didn't have a lot of rules, so I probably wouldn't, you know,
if I came to Zen Center now, I probably wouldn't, like, last long.
And I think I probably survived Zen practice because I was working in the kitchen rather than meditating all the time.
I'm not sure meditation is, you know, that great a thing to be doing, but, you know, that's another subject.
Thank you.
I mean, you know, endlessly sitting there waiting for the big E.
Thank you. Thank you, Luke.
Anyway, and when I, because when I would go and sit, I had a lot of involuntary movements.
Nowadays people seem to just go there and they just sit, and I would sit down.
And people tell me, you could stop that if you wanted to.
And you're just doing that to get attention.
And, you know, they tell me all kinds of things, you know, because people like to fix you.
And everybody else always knows better about how to be you than you do.
Take your own advice.
So it was very challenging for me to sit very much.
And, in fact, the first Tangario we had, you know, Tangario is when, before practice periods,
new students are asked to sit all day in the meditation hall with a little break after meals,
with no periods of meditation, but just to sit there.
And now before practice periods it's five days.
Before the first practice period in 1967, we did three days.
And I worked two days in the kitchen.
So I got in.
But the night before the first Tangario, you know, a number of people have been here,
living here in, the first practice period was July and August of 1967.
And a number of people have been living here in May and June,
and then the night before the first Tangario, a dozen people up the road.
We're not ready to sit for three days.
In order to go on staying here.
And then there was one person who sat three days in full lotus,
and then left the day after.
We're not quite sure what he figured out.
So,
I suppose you could say that I, you know, figured some things out over the years.
So I can sit still now.
Anyway, that's a different talk.
Anyway, I was remembering.
So when I worked in the kitchen and I was, you know, I was 22 or 23 years old,
and I was the boss.
So I was a little bit like that 18 year old who was running for mayor of Mill Valley,
a year or two back.
And he said, hire me while I still know everything.
So I was kind of like that.
And I thought my job was to tell people what to do,
and that their job was to do what I told them.
And somehow, and I thought that was Zen.
You know, Zen is doing what I tell you to.
And I'm not the only one who's thought this.
You know, we also have had Zen teachers who said that you're doing what I tell you is how you give up yourself.
You know, you give up yourself by doing what I tell you.
So I wasn't the only one.
I wasn't authorized to be in that position the way that some people are called teachers in this position.
So after a while, after several months,
and I noticed people would talk a lot during kitchen.
And usually when people are talking in the kitchen, their hands would stop moving.
Most people cannot keep their hands moving while they're talking,
not with the same focus.
And also people took very long bathroom breaks sometimes.
Sometimes they came to work late.
Sometimes people just disappeared for a while.
Who knows?
And I was pretty frustrated.
So I finally went to see Suzuki Roshi,
and I asked him, you know, I'd like your help on how to work with people in the kitchen.
And, you know, you told me to wash the rice when you wash the rice,
and cut the carrots when you cut the carrots,
and stir the soup when you stir the soup.
And all these people working with me don't seem to be doing that.
And I'm wondering how to get them to actually practice Zen.
Wouldn't that be good?
And I somehow thought it was up to me.
Maybe to make them do it.
How could I get them to do what they should be doing?
And I told them that people were talking when they came to work,
you know, people talk about their dreams.
Here we're not going out to the movies, so people can't say,
I saw this movie, they say, I had this dream last night.
And that they were taking long bathroom breaks,
and that they, you know, they were talking in the kitchen,
and they came to work late,
and they didn't seem to be particularly focused,
or attentive, or concentrated, or absorbed in what they were doing,
and what should I do?
And he'd been sitting there listening very carefully,
and kind of nodding his head.
I think I had sort of the idea,
yeah, you can't get good help these days, can you?
Isn't it a shame?
And then he was quiet for a moment,
and he said,
if you want to see virtue,
you'll have to have a calm mind.
And that kind of stopped me.
I mean, I thought to myself,
wait a minute, that's not what I asked you.
How do you do that?
How do you see virtue in others?
So I started trying to study that.
And when I would find something amiss
in what somebody was doing,
I would try to see
also some virtue in who they were.
Sometimes,
the climax for this was the day
that somebody went to get
16 or 18 cups of beans,
and I would just forget,
and then, you know, like a half hour later,
like, wait a minute,
he went to get 16 cups of beans.
He's not back yet.
And I went out to
what was our storeroom then,
and he was there like checking each bean
to make sure it was a bean.
And I thought,
well, I guess he's being thorough
and very careful and conscientious.
And I then endeavored to explain
other ways to be thorough
and careful and conscientious
and it didn't take so long.
Like we do now,
put the beans out on a plate
and look at the plate
and another plate, something.
But this same,
this is a fairly important
kind of question or issue
this morning when we were
cutting vegetables.
So we had a good time with the radishes.
There's something very charming
about radishes.
They're kind of like these little jewels
that you get out of the ground
and they're plump and they're round.
So they're kind of friendly
and kind of cheerful
and they have a little crunch
and a little bite to them.
And it's very,
it's not so,
it's fairly common to serve like,
well, they're just radishes.
They're just,
it's just a little something
you put in a salad.
And we sort of,
that's the virtue of radishes.
So this morning we were appreciating
the virtue of radishes
and we cut them three different ways
and we're tasting them
and then we put them with orange and basil
and we wanted to
allow the radishes to,
as Dogen says,
let things come home to your heart.
Let your heart go out and abide in things.
Let things come and abide in your heart.
And, you know,
can we actually receive
the blessings of our life?
And we're, you know,
because our tendency is like
something has to be really special
before it's going to touch us.
And this isn't a matter of,
you know, efforting.
Or,
it's interesting,
as Suzuki said,
if you want to see virtue
you have to have a calm mind.
And yet there's no way to sort of exactly,
like, how do I do a calm mind?
Because many people have pointed out that
a calm mind is not something you can do.
It's not something you can make happen.
It's not something you can manufacture.
As soon as you go and manufacture something
that's not calm anymore.
I was sort of joking with people
in the kitchen this morning.
That's like you tell your mind
we're going to be calm now.
And it's kind of like talking to
a two-year-old or a three-year-old.
Right.
So how are we going to do that?
You know, so you could also say
if you want to have a calm mind
why don't you practice seeing virtue?
Works the other way around too.
Dogen says, for instance,
about the mind of realization
that this is not something you can
manufacture
or establish,
make happen.
And in fact he says
it's not even something
that you can discriminate.
This is a calm mind
and this one isn't.
How do you even recognize
which is which?
The mind of realization.
Well,
so I found this
an ongoing sort of study for me
to see virtue
both in myself and in others.
How do I do that?
It's sometimes quite challenging.
And also then to see
virtue in food.
So I feel like
I think that the cook
and Dogen says this
in the Tenzo Kyokan
you know, to handle the food
carefully and respectfully
and take care of it
and make a sincere effort.
And when the cook appreciates the food
you have to appreciate something enough
to offer it to others
for their appreciation.
And if you don't appreciate it
then it's hard to offer it
and then you think,
well this isn't good enough
or special enough
or how can I offer something like this?
And so then we're all
a little bit in that
situation.
Am I good enough?
Am I special enough
in front of everybody else
to be in front of everybody?
What are they going to think of me?
And is there some way
I could just
be sincerely who I am
and I could appreciate
the virtue in that
rather than I have to
be special,
I have to perform well,
I have to do things right
in order to get recognition,
in order to be valued,
in order to have virtue.
So this is our usual thinking.
So Dogen says
when you're in the kitchen
he says don't see with ordinary eyes,
don't think with ordinary mind.
So that's the way ordinary eyes
and ordinary mind works.
You know, we compare ourselves to others,
we compare one thing to another thing,
some things are good,
some things are worse.
Am I good enough?
Am I special enough?
Is this?
So we're busy doing this.
And so the suggestion in
Dogen's instructions to the cook
is make an honest effort
or sincere,
a sincere effort
or in a certain sense
we say and then be sincere
and that being sincere
is another way of appreciating virtue
in that sense.
One day
we were having tea
with Suzuki Rishi
and someone said
Suzuki Rishi,
why haven't you enlightened me yet?
I think myself
and a number of other people there
kind of had this kind of reaction.
Ew.
Who do they think Suzuki Rishi is?
Who do they think they are?
What were they thinking he would do?
And there's a little tone in that of
are you singling me out
for some reason
to not enlighten me
while you're enlightening others
and not me?
Or there's a little bit of
you know, I thought I'm doing pretty well
and I deserve to have you enlighten me
but you don't seem to have done it yet.
Anyway, there was
several ways you could take that
not very well
or see it as not being very respectful
of Suzuki Rishi.
When his son came here one time
with all the abbots
from the sub-temple, 16 of them
it turned out there weren't enough places
at two of our eight seat tables
because nobody sat next to him.
That was how you respected
him.
Which is sort of funny for us
you know, like
wouldn't you sit next to him
but no, there's sort of like
there's some space there.
So anyway, Suzuki Rishi said
I'm making my best effort.
And you know
as I think about that now
I think
he sure knew when to stop.
He didn't say I'm making my best effort
how about you?
Are you sure you are?
So I appreciate that very much
I'm making my best effort
and it's just a way of
and then in a certain sense
we understand in Zen
everybody is making their best effort
and this is very hard to see
and it's very hard then to appreciate
and this is
not seen with
not seen with ordinary eyes
and not seen with ordinary mind.
So one of my favorite stories
in Crooked Cucumber
about Suzuki Rishi is when
David Chadwick
I was the head of the kitchen
David was the head of the dining room
and David's way of doing the dining room
is unlike the way anybody else
has ever done it.
He would wander around Tassajar
in the afternoon and get to talking
with me.
So he kind of would be
recruiting his own crew
we were very understaffed.
He would kind of wander around
Tassajar and meet people
and kind of get them to come over
and set the dining room with him
while they went on visiting
and then somewhere through dinner
he'd be sitting down
and drinking wine with them
and then at some point
he'd be going back to their cabin
and drinking scotch and brandy
and this would never be tolerated.
Never.
And maybe that's all for the better.
And one morning
we then after breakfast in the morning
some of us would have tea with Suzuki Rishi
you know the officers of the monastery.
So David is head of the dining room
I was invited to go to that
but I very rarely did
because I was just too busy
and there's the director and the work leader
and we'd have tea
and then he would talk
and then he would say
and is there anything you would like to bring up?
And the director said
David's sitting there having missed
morning Sazen, morning service, morning breakfast
and just gotten up in time
to get to the meeting
the tea with Suzuki Rishi
and probably you know
you can still smell the alcohol.
So the director says
Suzuki Rishi what do we do with somebody
who is always breaking the rules?
And Suzuki Rishi said
well
and well you know
everybody's making their best effort
but Suzuki Rishi flagrantly
breaking the rules flagrantly
and over and over again
and Suzuki Rishi said
well it's better if they break the rules
in the open rather than hiding it from us.
But Suzuki Rishi
shouldn't we do something?
So they broke the rules
and Suzuki Rishi said
well sometimes people are following
the spirit of the rules
even though they're not following the rules
to the letter.
And the director said
well wouldn't it be better
if you followed the letter of the rules
as well as the spirit?
And Suzuki Rishi said
yes that would be best.
And
you know
both these people are still disciples
we're both disciples of Suzuki Rishi
but David Chadwick is the one who
spent years of his life
accumulating the stories about Suzuki Rishi
and putting them in the biography
and single handedly
basically saw to it
that all the Suzuki Rishi lectures
were put on reel to reel tapes
from these little tapes
that are on these little machines
and set up the whole Suzuki Rishi archive
and
so what's a good student?
You know who has
virtue?
Nobody else
was interested in doing that
and David
very clearly loved Suzuki Rishi
and spent years doing that
collecting the stories
seeing that the tapes are preserved
setting up
seeing that money is raised
to have the tapes transcribed
all the tapes finally were retranscribed
so
you know
Suzuki Rishi saw something in David
which is
different than what other people saw
other people saw
somebody who's
not following the rules
not doing what he's supposed to do
and didn't see
David's heart
so
the other thing that's interesting to me
about
you know I'm making my best effort is
that making your so-called best effort
and this is a kind of
Japanese Zen expression
is not about
you know the results
it's that you just give your
you give your attention to something
and you work at it
and you work at it
and you spend time with it
and something happens
you
it's like doing meditation
it's not like
oh and then people say
well how was your meditation
oh it was great I was so concentrated
well it's about the same
whether you're concentrated or not
I mean you just put in your time
you spend time with yourself
and sometimes spending time with yourself
is spending time with somebody who's upset
or confused
and sometimes spending time with yourself
you're somebody who's
kind of happy or content
or you know focused
and that's the way it goes
there's no way to
sort of say well I want to produce
a magnificent experience
moment after moment
and that will show how great I am
and how good I am at this practice
no we're just hanging out with
somebody who's me
who's making my best effort
and you know
something happens
so
the aspect of
sincerity as I mentioned the other day
some of you
sincerity actually comes in English
comes from the root sin is without
like sans in French
and sere is wax
it's without wax
and the wax is what you can use
to fill in the little
wrinkles
and cover in the little blemishes
and cover over everything
so actually to not be sincere
is to hide
is to hide behind your front
your
you know your presentation
and you present yourself
a certain way but then you're
actually hiding behind
that and to be sincere is
the wrinkles show
you know your difficulty is revealed
so we're in this unusual
business of revealing
how difficult it is
for me to be me
how difficult it is to
do my work
you know to meditate
and as I do things
my goodness
you know there's
there's these problems
there's these wrinkles
it's not working out quite the way I want
a word of light
I'm not doing
as good a presentation
or a show of things as I might
so I very much
and partly you know for me
you know I'm somebody
who sat there in Zazen
and there were all these people
sitting in Zazen
so
there's always been
you know people who are
better than me
or they look better
they look better
and I don't think you know
I have a very good
you know presentation that way
so I've had to
kind of just go ahead and be me
and go ahead and be sincere
and let people see my
wrinkles because I've just
never been very good at
you know at covering them over
at being
Zen
if you have a question
I can clarify it for you
and I'm not going to clarify
much of anything for you
I'm afraid
oh well
so
anyway and then
you know to me like radishes
or vegetables
or food, food is very sincere already
it's sincerely
you know what it is
and radishes don't go like
why can't I be an eggplant
you know
and
they're just radishes
and they're happy to be radishes
they're very sincerely radishes
they're honestly radishes
and carrots are you know truly carrots
and we're
and the idea here is to
appreciate something for being
exactly what it is
and that's valuing the difference
and we have this sort of sense
that valuing the difference
is also appreciating
and that completely what it is
is
you know beyond our
you know beyond the differences
that somehow that completeness
or that it's something
we taste or appreciate the virtue of something
carefully enough
and then it's like
Roka says this comes from far away
this is something from beyond
when we appreciate
round apples, smooth banana,
nice great peach
how all this affluence speaks
life and death in the mouth
I sense, observe it
in a child's transparent features
while he tastes
this comes from far away
that's the virtue of something
and it's the
the preciousness of something is
preciousness is something being
exactly what it is
with all of its
pluses and minuses
you know virtue and problems
you know
and not that we only appreciate
the preciousness of something
when it's magnificent
and the problem
because the problem is
when is it ever magnificent enough
so one of my favorite
stories is that simple story
about the two monks who are walking along
and one says this is the summit
of the mystic peak
and the other one says
is this the summit of the mystic peak
or are you headed for
some other place at this point
it would be better than here
and more lofty
and the other monk says yes indeed
isn't it a pity
I figure that's dry Zen humor
you know isn't it a pity that this is
the height
of our life
being here
and with this body and this mind
and these problems and issues
and confusions and difficulty
and fatigue and you know whatever
feelings, thoughts
discouragement, encouragement
you know
and this is the summit of the mystic peak
and the commentary about that story
of course says
a lot of people lose their heads
trying to get to the summit
oh I've got to
I've got to do this better
I've got to straighten out my mind
I've got to get these people
to shape up
I have to make better food
and whatever
and then I would be some place
and the wonderful story about this
is also in the commentary
it says that a monk
asked Zhao Zhou
and Zhao Zhou
you know is one of his
he was so
so to speak
known to be
remarkable with his speech
that it said the golden light
came out of his mouth when he talked
so I don't know if that's metaphorically
or you know literally
but this is what they say
I don't know Chinese culture enough to know
but a monk asked Zhao Zhou
how do I get to the summit
of the mystic peak
and Zhao Zhou says
of course the monk wants to know
why not
like we might ask
why won't you tell me
why haven't you enlightened me yet
and Zhao Zhou says
if I told you
you would go on thinking
that you were still on level ground
so this is our sense
that we are not
we haven't arrived yet
so Zen is we're practicing
like this is
we've arrived
this moment we're arriving
we're at the summit
let's see
how virtuous things look
and let's appreciate radishes
and let's appreciate our sincerity
and let's appreciate people's presence in their lives
and let's appreciate people's sincere effort
and let's see if we can encourage one another
you know in that way
and let's see if we can
share the virtue of radishes with one another
and lettuces
and tomatoes
and let them be tomatoes
and that
you know it's a tomato
and can we appreciate it
and sometimes
you know we think well
we need to
do something to make the tomatoes
worth serving
or you know
we're involved in doing something often
to make it better
or somehow make it good enough
so
the sensibility
at some point
and I have a
I have a certain feeling for this
you know I think it's nice to
use some seasonings and things
and at the same time
I want something to be what it is
here, try this
I think it's pretty nice
so
I think this is about what I wanted to talk about this afternoon
so again
you know we're not studying
how to have a
special experience or create
a special experience
we're studying how to experience
things closely
experience our experience closely
and it's not like
any of us need to manufacture
or produce special experiences
we're more interested in just
experiencing things closely enough
and that experiencing closely enough is
to see things clearly
to see things as they are
and we get confused with that
thinking that it's about our performance
thinking about how people see us
thinking about how
whether something's good enough
so seeing, not seeing
with ordinary eyes
not thinking with ordinary mind
is to be out of that realm
and to then
and Dogen says you let things come home to your heart
let your heart respond to things
let things come and abide in your heart
let your heart abide in things
so thank you very much
some of you
if some of you need to go
that's fine
I'm happy to spend a few more minutes
if you have any
questions or comments
or further interests
sort of around this subject
or others perhaps
I'll ask a question
I know it wasn't the point of the story
but something that really interests me is
the idea that
I think what you said was accurate
public breaking of rules
is not so much here anymore
people break them privately
privately
most people know they're breaking them
but nonetheless it's very private
not so out there
and I was wondering
do you really think it's better
to break them publicly?
this
you know this partly has to do
I think with
you know who the abbot is
who the
you know the spirit of the place
but the
the idea there is that
when you do things privately
other people
don't have a chance
to relate to you about it
and Suzuka she said
why don't you just be yourself
then I may have some suggestion for you
because then if I know you
and meet you
then I can work with you
and if you're not letting me know
who you are actually
you know I can't
I don't know what to suggest
so it's in a particular context
and
this is a very interesting point
because you're also reminding me of that
when
you know when Suzuki
when Tatsugami Roshi came
it was the
fall of 1969
I mean it was 1970
67, 68
the fall of 69 I think
and he was this Zen teacher from Japan
and he instituted
the monastic system here
which we hadn't had up until that point
so all of a sudden there was a
Zendo police
you know there was going to be somebody
if you weren't at meditation
somebody was going to come looking for you
but we didn't have a Zendo police
and at one point
during that fall
we had a problem with people
taking food from the kitchen
so there was a meeting
with Tatsugami Roshi
and people said you know
people are taking food from the kitchen
and from the storerooms
and what are we going to do about it
and how do we get people to stop doing that
and he said
why don't you take the locks
off your minds
and put them on the doors
because we were thinking
what you do is you get people
to behave differently
by some kind of mechanism
you get them to do something differently
and he said no
if you have locks on the doors
then you don't need to get them
to do anything one way or another
that only worked out
for a very short time
and in those days
this is the 60s still
we tended to be a group
that practiced a fair amount
of civil disobedience
so as soon as the locks were unlocked
or somebody came in the storeroom
other people would come by
and take the unlocked lock
and throw it into the creek
so eventually
this led to the backdoor cafe
having food out
that is available to people
when they would like to snack
so it doesn't have to be
taking something that isn't given
something is given to them
for them to take
and up until then
we sort of had overly high expectations
but anyway
it's a kind of interesting point too
because
on the whole
Zen practice
and the way that we do things here
kind of depends on people
following the rules
and if people on the whole
think that this is working
and for the people who don't follow the rules
we say
I'm sorry but you're not following the rules
you're going to have to leave
so we're not anymore very good
at working with people who aren't
at least at an obvious exterior level
we're not very good with those people
who aren't following the rules
or how to work with them
or how to talk with them
or what to do with them
but this is also related then to
how do you
how do you manifest yourself
or express yourself
and one style is
and many of us do
and especially spiritual people
have some tendency to do
is I'm not going to reveal that much about me
because the less I reveal
the less likely it is that I will reveal
something that's a blemish
and that will be a problem for other people
that they will criticize me about
so I'm going to kind of keep to myself
and I'm not going to say much
and I'm going to be careful
and so then
and then people wonder
like how to communicate
and then somebody else is doing something
that bothers them
and how do you talk to that person
they have not much practice at it
because you've been
following the rules
and doing what you're supposed to do
and then somebody else does something
and you have no practice at talking
you have no practice at expressing yourself
so the only way really to develop
at something like communication
people sort of think
if I meditate long enough
then somehow when I go to talk
it's going to be really good
but actually the way to
the way to develop
in terms of how do you converse
or how do you interact with somebody verbally
is you practice it
and you study
and then you see like
well in a certain sense
I broke the rules there
and now there
or I did something
and I watch and observe
how my speech
impacts others
and so I'm in a certain sense
making mistakes
and by making mistakes
I can actually then adjust my effort
and notice what I'm doing
and try something else next time
and I keep thinking about it
and over a period of time
I learn something
about how to do this
and the value in
going ahead and doing things
outwardly that aren't working
and studying by doing that
how to adjust your effort
this is what I'm going to teach in knife sharpening
you can look at what you're doing
and if you're doing it in a mistaken fashion
you adjust it
whereas if you're not going to make any mistake at all
you're not going to sharpen a knife
or if you think
you're only going to do the things
that you can do really well
well, can't do that
because then you're
taking away your opportunity
to actually grow and develop
and learn new skills
I love the story too
about how Kuan Yin
got 11 heads
because there's some Kuan Yins
that have 11 heads
sometimes they go up vertically
and sometimes they're
two or three rows around this way
and the story is that
Kuan Yin, who's the Bodhisattva of Compassion
decided one day to go to hell
and save all the beings there
now is this a good idea or not?
so she worked very hard
people in hell are not very receptive
that's part of why they're in hell
and they've been betrayed before
they've been abandoned
they don't have a lot of trust
there's some other place that you could go
if you come with me
I've heard it before
so she finally gets them together
and is leading them all out of hell
and she turns around
and innumerable more beings
are wandering in
like it's the best place in the world
and her head explodes
literally nowadays we say
well that's literally
nowadays we say
it blew her mind
so at that time
Amida Buddha gave her another head
and this is what happens to us
we go ahead and do things
and we come apart
and it doesn't work
and we get another head
but if we're always careful
and doing sort of like
what we're supposed to
we're in a little too narrow a place
and then that's another kind of mistake
but it's actually in some ways
a harder mistake to make
because you're not
you don't get to see what it is
and other people don't get to
relate to you about it
so there's all kinds of degrees in this
but basically it's that
in order to grow and develop in our life
we go ahead and do something
in not such a good way
and then we learn something from that
and Avalokiteshvara
all she learned was
I'm going to try again
I'll do that again
and she went back
and it had to happen ten times
which is innumerable
and we all survive
under the circumstances
of doing something
that kind of
in a certain sense fruitless
so it's a little bit like
doing the dishes
and they keep bringing you dirty ones
and you finish one meal
and you start another one
and there's something about our life
that is that kind of repetitious
and that it doesn't finish
so there's
there's always a balance of these things
because at some point
people acting out
if they're acting out too
dramatically
it's going to be a problem for everyone
and it's not conducive
to the overall harmony of the situation
and so forth
so when it gets
at some point excessive
then we do something
some of us
you know learn this for ourselves
up to a point
I mean I used to think
it would be nice to have attention
and so you can get some attention
by being kind of crazy
but then it's sort of like
wait a minute now
is this the kind of attention I wanted
all right
well thank you very much
some of us we're going to do
the knife sharpening at 4.30
so that's in about ten minutes
and did you get my stone yet Luke
from my room
to soak in water
okay thank you
all right so anyone
you're all welcome
I mean if you want to come to knife sharpening you can
it'll be in the student evening area
in about ten minutes
thank you