Good morning. If we have the English only version, it's page seven. His name is Ungo Douyou, and he is one of the two major disciples of Tozan, or Dongshan. So he is in our lineage. We don't know where he was born, but he died in 902. In ancient times, while the great master Kōkaku or Honjue or Mount Ungo or Unju was abiding at Sanpō-an or Sanpen-an, a hermitage, a heavenly being sent meals.

[01:22]

One day, the great master visited Tozan, Odonshan, and decisively clarified the great way. Then he went back to his hermitage. The servant of the heaven delivered a meal to the master again and sought after him, but this heavenly being could not see the master for three days. The Master did not wait for a meal from the kitchen in the heaven any longer, but rather he valued and was sustained by the Great Way. We should be thoughtful of his determination to affirm the practice of the Way." About this, the Master Ungo Doyo,

[02:26]

Dogen Zenji quote one of his ungo's sayings about immo. And he, Dogen Zenji, wrote a chapter of Shobo Genzo titled Immo. So if you are interested in this part of teaching, please read that chapter of Shobo Genzo. This is a story before he became a teacher. He was still practicing with his own teacher, Tozan. Somehow he lived outside of the monastery, like Mahakasyapa, stayed at a hermitage by himself. And it said this person, Ungo Doyo, didn't come to the monastery to eat for many days.

[03:31]

So Pozan worried about what happened to this person. There was no kitchen in that hermitage. So no food. Why didn't this person come to the monastery to eat? So Tozan, his teacher, visited the Hermitage. That is the beginning of the story. And then Ungo said, I receive food from heavenly beings. Heavenly beings, you know, brings me food. Well, this story, the original story is a little longer, and Dogen didn't quote, so I will introduce the story. This is a book titled Opening a Mountain by Stephen Hayne.

[04:37]

He collected many interesting stories from Zen koans. Let me read this translation. He said, Yunchu or Ungo built a hut on Mount Sanpeng. Days went by and he did not show up in the refectory. Master Tongshan went to the hut and asked him, Why haven't you come by for meals? for the past few days." This translation says a few days, but in the text I have, it has jun. Jun means ten days, so maybe much longer.

[05:39]

Yunchu, or ungo, replied, "'Because every day of their own accord,' that means even though he didn't ask, or request the heavenly spirit, come and bring me food. The master said, I always thought you were an exceptional person, that is, you are a very eminent person of the way, but why do you still hold onto such views? you'd better come and visit my quarters this evening." So Tozan said, I'm disappointed about you. You need some teaching, so come to my room. So later that evening, Un-go visited Tozan's room.

[06:47]

When Un-go, or Un-chu, arrived at the master's quarters, When Tonshan, or Tozan, saw the hermit coming, he called out. Tozan called him. There is a hermit. I don't agree with this translation. There is a hermit. In the original, Tozan just said, Yo Anju. Yo is part of Ndoyo's name. just called his name. And Anju means the owner of the hermitage. So he just called you, or Douyu, or his name. So it's not very a hermit. And Ungo called back. He said yes. He replied.

[07:50]

He just said yes. Then the master said, Don't think of good and don't think of evil. Now tell me what is it? That was his question. And there's no answer from Un-go. But Un-go, or Un-chu, returned to his hut. and resumed his practice of peaceful meditation. So he started to sit again by himself. Then, from this time on, the heavenly spirits were unable to spot him. And after three days they stopped appearing altogether. So the heavenly beings didn't stop coming to deliver the food to this person.

[08:50]

This is the story. And this Tozan's saying, don't think of good and don't think of evil, actually came out of the I introduced the story of Huinan yesterday when he ran away from the monastery. Someone chased after him and Huinan was caught by this person. And somehow this person became enlightened and gave him dharma transmission. And that was very earliest version of that story. But in the most complete developed version of that story is in this book. So I'll introduce what Todan said here has something to do with that story.

[09:57]

I mean, what Huinan said to this person. That is related. Yeah. The Sixth Patriarchal Union was once pursued by the monk Ming. Ming is that person's name. All the way to a ridge on Mount Tayu. When the patriarch saw Ming approaching, he cast the robe and the begging bowl he was carrying on a log. So when the person coming, he put the robe and bowl in the original version, only robe, no bowl, but something added. This robe represents faith.

[10:58]

It should not be fought over. I'll leave it here for you to take it away." So he said, just take it away. Then Ming tried to pick up the robe, but it was as immovable as a mountain. even though that person was very strong, but he couldn't pick up the okesa. It was so heavy, as heavy as mountains. Trembling with fear, Ming cried out, I came to learn the Dharma, not to take away the robe. Please instruct me. Then the Sixth Patriarch said, Without thinking of what is good and without thinking of what is evil, right now, at this very moment, what is the original face of Monk Ming?

[12:04]

This is a source of potency to Ungo. So, without thinking good, without thinking evil, what is a true faith of yourself? And hearing these words, Ming experienced a great enlightenment somehow. His whole body was drenched in sweat. Weeping, he bowed and asked, aside from the esoteric words with their esoteric meaning that you have just revealed to me, Is there any other, even more profound teaching you can teach me? Then the sixth patriarch replied, What I have just explained is not an esoteric teaching.

[13:08]

The deeper meaning you are looking for is to be found nowhere else than right within you. Ming said, although while studying under the Fifth Patriarch at Chiang Mai, I participated along with the rest of the assembly, I was never able to see my original self. Now, thanks to your instruction, that directed me to a true inner realization. I am like one who has drunk water and can tell for himself whether it is cold or warm. You, my lay brother, are my real teacher. the patriarch said, if you are so awakened, then both you and I have the fifth patriarch as our teacher.

[14:18]

Take care to cultivate your attainment. This is the end of the story. So the story become much more longer and more meaningful and interesting. So it's very clear, you know, that people worked on the story to make it more interesting. That's how Koan's story has been created. Anyway, I think the important point is to think without thinking either good or bad. That means no discrimination. As Huina said, it's not something esoteric. It's not something, you know, a mysterious stage of mind, but it's as the sojo said, as about the ring or circle of the way, it's empty, that's all. And both good and bad are there, or dichotomies are there, but we cannot take either one.

[15:25]

We can't side it. We don't side it. So both are there, but still it's empty. So it's not a matter of some kind of psychological condition that we cannot make no distinction between this and that, or we stop thinking. But, you know, when we clearly see the things and think as clearly as possible, then we see, you know, this and that are relative. If there's something good, there's always something not good. So what Huinan and Tozan said, using the expression, without thinking good and bad, and that is what we did in our Zen. We let go. By letting go, we stop thinking both good and evil.

[16:32]

That means still good and bad is there, or delusion and enlightenment, or whatever dichotomy are there. But either side of dichotomy is not a whole reality of our life. Our life is beyond good and bad, including good and bad. So absolute does not mean beyond this dichotomy. But the true absolute includes good and bad, includes this dichotomy. Otherwise, you know, absolute is relative with relative. Otherwise, you know, absolute includes relative, so there's nothing besides that, this, you know, actual work, in which there are many problems, many dichotomies, and we often, we don't know which way we should, you know, choose.

[17:43]

But that is the world, that is the world of absolute. That is how we live within the world of absolute. So going beyond good and bad doesn't mean to go somewhere else, but to be right now, right here, you know, with this dichotomy. And yet we try not to make discrimination, but accept both and try to be most realistic. Anyway, in this story, the ungo received food from the heavenly beings. And yet after this expression was told them, the heavenly beings couldn't see ungo anymore.

[18:45]

And three days later, the heavenly beings didn't come at all after that. And Dogen Zenji introduce same kind of story in this Gyoji, I think, at least, not at least, but five times. So it must be important point for Dogen. I think five, including Ungo, including this story. Let's see. I don't know section 9 Kyosei Dofu and section 10 Sanpei Gichu because these are very short story I did this maybe nice to talk all together Kyosei Dofu or Jin Queen Daofu this person lived 868 to 937

[19:55]

He is a disciple of Seppō Gison. Seppō is Shūfen. While Master Kyōsei, and this Master Kyōsei is famous for the koan of the sound of raindrop. Sound of raindrop. I don't have time to talk about that story, but you can find it. While Master Kyosei served as the abbot at a temple, the guardian god of the earth was not able to see the master's face. This is because the god could not find a means to do so. And next one, Sanpei Gichu. He is a Dharma grandson of Sekito Kisen, Sekito or Shito.

[21:06]

Then Master Gichu of Mount Sanpei received meals delivered by a heavenly being in the former days. After he met with the master Daiten, his teacher, one of Sektō's disciples, the heavenly god tried to find him again but could not see him. And he introduced two more stories in the section of Wanshi Shōgaku. But that one is long, so I just read those three. So I think the point is the same. When those masters really attain the way, the heavenly god or whatever kind of god or spirit, they couldn't see those masters. You know, in the teaching, Buddhist teachings, it said living beings or deluded living beings are transmigrating with six realms.

[22:36]

And the highest or best place within these six realms are heaven, so-called heaven. And there are many layers of heaven. The lowest layer is called yok, heaven but desire, the realm of desire. That means because it was heaven, all desires were fulfilled. So heavenly beings are very happy people. But problem is that condition didn't last forever. they will, you know, sooner or later need to go somewhere else. That is the heaven within the realm of desire. and it says there are two more higher layers. Second one is called the realm of form.

[23:45]

is the first one of the five skandhas, form, or rupa. And in these higher stages or realms are kind of realms of meditation. When we or the heavenly beings are released, liberated from this desire, then only see the forms or material things. So it's more kind of peaceful. not clinging to that desire. And the highest heaven is called mushikikai, realm of no form. Even the form disappears. But those realms of meditation are still within samsara, the best part of samsara.

[24:46]

And, of course, what Buddha taught is not to go up to the highest point of samsara, but get out of samsara. So, to me, it seems this kind of story means, you know, when Ungo Douyou received food from heavenly beings, it seems this person, Ungo, was practicing to go up to the heaven. to attain certain peaceful, blessing, fantastic stage of mind. But according to Buddhist teachings, that is okay, but that doesn't last forever. And that is not the goal of our practice. But we need to get out of that kind of practice, you know. That is why, what Dogen Zenji said, our Zazen is a dharma gate of great peace and joy.

[25:57]

This great peace and joy means nirvana, not highest heaven. And his practice or our practice is not step-by-step meditation, which lead us to a realm of meditation in heaven. But I think the meaning of this kind of story to Dogen is these people are kind of fascinated to kind of practice step-by-step meditation and to go up to the heaven, kind of a meditative realm. But our practice is really being here, right now, right here, not to go up somewhere else. You know, when I was in Minnesota, during Sesshin, I always talked about Fukanzazengi and, you know, about our zazen, which I always said, you know, whenever thought come up, we just return to this posture.

[27:15]

breathing deep breath and keep our eyes open and let go of thought so we return to this point whenever we find our mind go somewhere else then after one session a person asked then here is mind trip you know for some people, meditation means kind of a trip of mind. And I said, in our practice, our mind doesn't trip. Stay here. I think that is the difference. When we try to go, travel around the stage of certain psychological condition or meditative condition, our mind go this way or that way, but according to Buddha's or Dogen's teaching, that kind of meditation or kind of a peaceful or blessing stage of mind doesn't last forever.

[28:32]

It's still within the cause and condition. So that is not the true place to return. True place to return is this here, this moment. Right now, right here, we live as a collection of five scandals and appear and stay for a while and disappear and live together with other people. Sometimes we are happy, sometimes we are not happy. Sometimes we cause so many problems and sometimes we are so happy, we feel so grateful and peaceful. That reality is the final place we need to return, not go up there. That is the meaning. Our practice is to return to this reality in front of our eyes in which we are living together with all beings within our daily lives, nothing special.

[29:34]

And also another meaning of this kind of story In ancient times in China or Japan or any Asian country, those sentient beings, not sentient, heavenly beings, or like God, guardian God, each place had its own God. And Buddhism is something, you know, came after. You know, when the masters started to leave certain monasteries and mountains to make a monastery, you know, if it's a spiritual mountain, spiritual place, often there was already some god enshrined. and Buddhist masters have some relationship with those kind of God or spiritual tradition.

[30:43]

exist before they come. The situation was the same in Japan. In Japan, almost all the high mountains are places where Japanese gods still exist, still live. So if Buddhist monks came later and tried to build a Buddhist temple or monastery, there must have some interaction with the people who are worshipping those gods. And so it's kind of a strange thing. In Buddhism, Buddhism never fight against those, you know, folk religion in each countries.

[31:45]

They try to embrace those things. So in the case of Japan, Buddhism and Shintoism, you know, get together, mix together. And there's a good side and bad side about this. But please, Pardon me? Yeah, there is such a story, or not a story, but such a belief. He didn't die, but he is still waiting for the Maitreya in the, I think, not Varchapik, I forget the Sanskrit name, but the meaning of the name of the mountain is Chicken Leg or something. Anyway, I think that story has nothing to do with what I'm talking.

[32:48]

I think one meaning of this is Ungo-Doyo has kind of fascinated to that kind of meditation practice. And another meaning, I think, is even though we need to respect those gods already there, or heavenly beings. But as a Buddhist, we should be Buddhist. We should practice Buddhist teaching. So we should respect those gods and be friendly, but not fight against. But still we need to understand, you know, Buddhist practice of, you know, emptiness and awakening to the reality of ourselves and live and help others is kind of different from worshipping the god.

[34:00]

I think I think that is the point of this story. Please. Yes. In India, even within Buddhism, it's said as a result or fruit of meditation, people like Buddha could attain six divine powers. Those are seeing everything, or hearing everything, or see what happened in the past and think in the future. those powers, but these are kind of one of the characteristics of Zen teaching. We don't expect such divine powers, but about divine powers, Chinese Zen master said, you know, our divine power is to carry water and carry firewood.

[35:19]

And also Dogen Zenji wrote a chapter of Shōbō Genzō entitled Jinzū, that means divine power or spiritual power. And he talks about the story of his son and his two students. When Isan took a nap and woke up, one of his students, Gyo-san, brought a bowl of water to wash his face. And another person brought a tea. to the teacher. And the teacher said, you have great divine power. Just see the necessity of people in front of us and do something, to serve something. That is great power and divine power, according to Dogen. So the understanding of divine power is almost completely different.

[36:26]

So then it's very kind of down to us teaching. Okay, so by the teaching of Tozan, Ungo understood that point and he started to really sit as a part of this cycle of the way. Then the heavenly beings couldn't see him anymore. I think that's the story. For us, people in modern times are not so much involved. But still, we do. Some kind of in a psychedelic world can be still attractive to us. But so I think Dogen questioned this point to his students. Next one is .

[37:31]

He lived from 749 to 814. was very famous, also important Zen master in the history of Chinese Zen. And there are many koan stories about this person, Hyakujo. But here Dogen Zenji introduced one story about working. Zen Master Daichi Dazi of Mount Hyakujo or Baituan. Since he was the personal attendant of Baso, so Hyakujo was Baso's student, Baso is mother, until the evening of his own entering Nirvana.

[38:43]

So since he was attendant, was student of Baso until his death, never had even one day he did not serve people in his assembly. So he was always practicing with assemblies. When he was a student, he studied with his teacher. And after he became a teacher, he always worked and practiced together with his students. And graciously, he left the trace of one day without work is one day without eating. This is a very famous saying. One day without work is one day without eating. Although the master Hyakujo was already aged and had been a monk for many years,

[39:49]

He worked hard with people in their prime of life whenever they had community work. As I said, Hyakujo considered to be the first Chinese Zen master who established the Shingi. Shingi is pure standard or pure regulation of Zen monasteries. And it said he made Hyakujo Shingi, the pure standard of Hyakujo monastery, traditionally. But these days scholars doubt about it. There's no such correction of rules as a text.

[40:51]

But somehow, in the tradition, people consider this person, Hyakujo, was the first master who established that Shingi. But the essential point, important point of Hyakujo's Shingi was added and inserted in Hyakujo's section of Keitoku Dentoroku, or Record of Dharma Lamp, Transmission of Dharma Lamp. And the important point of Hyakujo's practice or practice at Hyakujo's monastery is they didn't have Buddha hall. They only had Dharma hall and Sangha hall or monk's hall. it said the reason why they didn't have Buddha Hall is that the abbot, the teacher of that monastery, is a person who received transmission of Dharma that had been transmitted from Buddha.

[42:05]

So the abbot is actual Buddha. And on behalf of Buddha, the abbot gave Dharma discourse So their idea is they didn't need to worship so-called Buddha or Buddha statue. That's why they didn't have Buddha hall. That means they didn't have service to Buddha. And so in the Dharma Hall, almost every day, the abbot ascends the platform. You know, in the mountain seat ceremony, you know, the abbot ascends the platform and gives a Dharma discourse and question and answer. that originated from that tradition.

[43:07]

Today, Abbott gives that kind of Dharma discourse and Dharma question and answer only once on the occasion of the ceremony. But originally, in Hyakujo's monastery, Master Abbott did almost every day. And the Dharma discourse is recorded in Ehe Korok, or the record of Dogen's Dharma discourse, called in Japanese, Jodo. Jodo means ascending the hall, ascending that altar, or ascending the mountain. After he moved to a heiji, usually he gave 50 to 70 Dharma discourses, so almost every week. or more than once a week. So that was the teaching style of Zen monastery about give Dharma talk or instruction.

[44:18]

And whoever in the assembly had a question, come up and ask the question, and the teacher give answer. that is the record of that kind of conversation, question and answer is a source or material of Koan stories. Oh, okay. So that is a first important point of Hyakujo's practice. Second one is they, I mean monks, lived together in the monks' hall, in the one room. They sleep together and they meditate together. And that is different from Indian tradition. In India, in Indian monastery, each, I think, each monk has his or her own hermitage.

[45:23]

And they practice meditation by themselves. I think still in Theravada tradition they practice meditation individually but in Zen monastery I'm not sure about other school in Chinese Buddhism but at least Zen monastery monks live together in one hall one big building and they sit together Like we sit in the zendo here on the platform. And here the platform is not wide enough, but it's usually wide about six feet. And monks sleep there. So monks' hall is really the home of those people. And there's no walls.

[46:27]

That means there's completely no, how can I say, privacy. It's a very difficult life. We cannot hide anything. And we have to do everything with all the people. That is one kind of a new style of practice started in China. And the third one is this working, community work. As I said, in India, monks did not work. It was profited by Preceptor Vinaya, because when we work such as farming, we have to kill many living beings. But they started to kill. I'm sorry, but they start to work. And the Master Hyakujo really seems they love to work.

[47:32]

So until he was, it said how old he was when he died. I lost. Anyway, I think until he was very old, he wanted to work with monks. And this is the story about his desire to work. So graciously, he left the place of one day without work, one day without eating. Although the Master Hyakujo had already aged and had been a monk for many years, he worked hard with people in their prime of life whenever they had community work. All the people in his assembly felt sorry about this and pitied him. So young people were kind of compassionate to their old teacher.

[48:39]

But the master never stopped working. Finally, on an occasion of a community work, they hid his tools and did not give them to the master. So the student hide Hyakujo's tools so Hyakujo couldn't work. Then on that day, the master did not eat all day. So he had a disaster. That was an expression of his regret caused by not being able to join the community work. This is called the trace of Hyakujo's one day without work, one day without eating. In the Great Song China today, in the Rinzai or Rinzhi tradition that has been transmitted in many monasteries in the various districts, many people continuously practice the profound example of Hyakujo.

[49:53]

And I think this is one thing Dogen was very surprised when he first visited China. The first Chinese monk who Dogen met, I think this is a famous story so you already know, was a Tendo from certain monastery. And Dogen wanted to talk with this person about monastic life in China. But this person, this Tendo person just came to the Japanese ship to buy some Japanese mushroom. But Dogen tried to invite him for tea and dinner, but he just talked for a while and left. So Dogen asked, what a good thing to work so hard. If you are the monk, you need to study practices again and study koan or some kind of teaching.

[50:58]

Why don't you work? What is a good point of this working? Then the Tendo just laughed and said, you don't know what is practice and what is studying. That was, I think, first kind of a culture shock, not culture, but spiritual shock for Dogen. Because in Japan, a fair Dogen Dekamamag, that was at Kendai Monastery near Kyoto, the monastry, the kind of hierarchy of monastry, institutional structure of the monastry is kind of a copy of the mundane secular world. people from high society became a monk and became the high-class priest. And people from low-class society cannot go up the hierarchy, no matter how diligent and how wise the person might be.

[52:05]

Because Dogen was from a very high-class family, So from the very beginning, he was kind of a high class, even though he was very young. He was 14 years old, 13 or 14 years old. He was already in the high class. So for him, you know, to practice Buddhism does not mean to, you know, cook rice. Those are things done by low-class monks, working monks. They had a working monk and they had a soldier monk. So those people who work in a monastery and support teachings and practice, and people who teach and practice are different class of people. And often when the person from high-class family became a monk, their servant also became a monk and served to this person.

[53:17]

You know, that was the condition, you know, Dogen came from. And he was the top of that, you know, hierarchy. So he couldn't imagine, you know, working is important practice. So especially for him, that was very deep surprise. And because of that experience with Chinese Tenzo, after he came back to Japan, this is one of the most important points in Dogen's teachings. Monks should work together to support their own practice. So there's no hierarchy or class distinction between people from low-class family and high-class family. So for Dogen Zenji, this spirit of Hyakujo is very important.

[54:24]

And next, 9 and 10, I think I already talked. So I go to 11. I forget what time, so I stop. 11.15. Okay, we have 20 minutes. Thank you. I think I can finish this. In the text, this person is called the later, the master later Daiyi. This means second abbot of Mount Isan. But another name of this person is Cho Kei, Cho Kei Dai An, because he lived at Cho Kei monastery after he left his son.

[55:41]

And Dai An was his personal name, Dharma name. And this person lived 793 to 883. The master later Daiyi or Dagui said, I have been at Mount Isan or Guishan for 20 years. I have eaten the rice of Isan and shut the seat of Isan. Pardon? Okay. Okay. But I have never studied the wave of Isan.

[56:45]

I have simply been able to tame one water buffalo. All day it is exposed clearly. This person was originally a disciple of Hyakujo, and Isan Rei or Dai was also Hyakujo's disciple. And Issan, after Issan left Hyakujo Monastery, he founded another monastery on the mountain called Issan, or Dagui. And this person died and helped Issan to establish that monastery. And after Issan died, this person became the second abbot. That's why he was called the Master Laita Daiyi.

[57:48]

This person is talking about water buffalo. But water buffalo is something Isan, his teacher, said. Dogen Zenji quote this story of water buffalo of Isan in Tenzo Kyokun. So if you are familiar with Tenzo Kyokun, you know that story. Isan said after he died, he will be born as a water buffalo. in a farmer's house. And on the side of the water buffalo, it is said, monk Isam, A-U, his name. And Isan, or the master, asked, what do you call this being?

[58:51]

If you call this is a water buffalo, this is Isan. But if you call this Isan, this is a water buffalo. What do you call this? It was a koan by Isan. So water buffalo, I think Nansen also used the word water buffalo. He became a water buffalo. So water buffalo is a kind of an image of Bodhisattva who worked in muddy water. Life study is really muddy. And worked to cultivate the land and plant the rice seedlings. So whatever for an image of bodhisattva to help in the society, helping living beings. But monk Isan is the abbot of the monastery in the mountain.

[59:59]

So actually he didn't really work in the society. So this is two images of bodhisattva. One is practicing within a monastery. And another is working in a life study. And these two are really not two, but one thing. Or we can say, you know, part of ourselves is like monk wisdom, who I want to practice. But part of ourselves is like a water buffalo. I want to work for the people or in the society. And actually both are in ourselves. What do we call this person? Or we can say Buddha nature and karmic nature. We have both. Which one is this?

[61:00]

And actually we cannot make a choice. Both are here. So no one really gave the answer. We need to accept both sides. Anyway, so when this person, Choke Dian, talks about the water buffalo, we need to hear the Isan's voice when he said, what is this water buffalo, whether water buffalo or other, or Nangu Isan, or Buddha nature, what is this? And this person doesn't answer to that question, but this is the kind of the answer. Now, I have been at Mount Isan for 20 years. So Isan, they started to establish the monastery from scratch.

[62:12]

And this person worked together with him. So he worked with Isan a long time. And he said he ate Isan's rice. And he, you know, whatever was. That is ordinary life, just ordinary thing. So he had been living ordinary life for 20 years. And he said, that means nothing special. We just do ordinary work and practice. And important point is, but he said, but I have never studied the way of Isam. That means Isam practice Isam's way. And this person Dayan practice Dayan's way. My practice was not his practice.

[63:14]

I practice for my own. So I studied or I received anything, nothing from my teacher. I'm from myself from the beginning. The first teaching I received from my teacher after I was ordained, maybe I talked this last year, was the next day I received ordination, I had a chance to talk with Uchama Roshi personally, and he said, you know, on that ceremony, precept ceremony, my father was there, And my father asked, you know, my teacher, please take care of my son. That is kind of a common thing to say, I think. But next day Uchimura said, although your father said to take care of you, but I cannot take care of you.

[64:23]

You have to practice for your own. So, you know, he said, I cannot rely on him. That was a very first teaching from my teacher when I was ordained. And I really relied on his teachings. That means I try not to rely on him. You know, it's a kind of interesting thing. interesting teaching. When a teacher said, you should follow me, then I can make a choice to follow or not to follow. But when my teacher said, don't follow me, don't trust me, don't rely on me, then it's very difficult to make a choice. You know, I try not to rely on him, but that makes me rely on him.

[65:25]

He's teaching not to rely on me. So it's kind of a strange thing. But I think this person is saying the same thing. His teaching was not to rely on him, but live your life for your own. And that was what he has been doing. So he has been taming or raising this water buffalo, which is a combination of two sides, Buddha nature and karmic nature, to educate and grow and make the water buffalo mature. And he said, all day it is exposed clearly. So both sides are exposed clearly. This is complete water buffalo and complete Manquisha, or complete this person, Daiyan.

[66:33]

And Dogen said, we should know that the one water buffalo had been able to be tamed. through the 20 years of continuous practice at Mount Isan. So for this person, Dayan, it took him 20 years of continuous practice in order to tame his water buffalo. we should quietly be thoughtful of how he practiced for 20 years. Do not forget it. So Dogen is asking to his students, don't forget how they practice. Because Isan and this person started building a monastery by themselves from scratch. First, according to Isan's biography, first 10 years, they have nothing.

[67:43]

No one knew them. and they just ate nuts from the tree around there, and they worked little by little. So their practice was not such an easy one. They didn't practice in an established monastery or community. must work very hard not only not only seeking but also you know they had a lot of working physical working there are many stories about working on the field about Isan one of them is Isan very famous one Isan and his disciple Gyosan worked to make a rice paddy and there was some, I have to recall, and they want to make, to measure and

[68:50]

I think Isan said, use some water to measure how, you know, yeah. But Gyo-san said, water is also not reliable. And he said, high place is high level and low place is low level. So, you know, even while they are working, like making a life study, they are, you know, studying Dharma. There are many of those examples, not only in Isan but in many Koan stories from that age. It's about working. So working is a very important part of our practice. And Dogen admired this person in the last sentence. Even though there are some people who study the way of Isan, it is rare to find a person whose continuous practice is not to study the way of Isan.

[70:11]

So this not to practice, not to study is important for Dogen. And not study Isan's way, not rely on Isan, but he just practice for his own. OK, I think it's a good place to stop. Any question? Only six months at the Yoji Monastery. Yeah. Yeah, totally different.

[71:13]

Completely different. We have to be careful even when we sleep, not to disturb others. We have to always think of others. And we can't make any careless noise. So we should always be alert. Very difficult practice. But very helpful. No, I didn't like it. When I finished six months of training there, I was very happy. But it was very helpful practice to, how can I say, to always see how other people are doing and feeling and thinking about this person.

[72:19]

And we need to let go of how people are thinking about me. Otherwise, we cannot stay in such a situation even one day. So there are two sides. We have to be always alert and careful with other people and think about all people. But at the same time, all people have the same difficulty. So we have kind of a compassion to each other. And we have a kind of a room. We find a room to, how can I say, in a sense, give up. forgiveness to certain disturbance or mistakes or whatever because all of us do the same thing so the relationship is really intimate and it's a kind of important practice but I don't really want to do it please

[73:30]

No, we had a small room, but in that room, two or three people lived together, so not so different. You know, we have to be always concerned with two or three, not 20 or 30, but not so different. six mats of tatami for two, usually two people. Right. Please. We don't believe in God I think we should respect other people's belief or religion or spiritual tradition.

[74:53]

Buddhism never fought against and sweep all other religion or spiritual tradition away. We respect those other people's, you know, belief or faith. But it doesn't mean we need to believe all those gods or the, you know, capital gods. Well, answer to your question. Uh-huh. For example, can you go through, can you do this in the circle stuff? I'm not sure, but when I have seen various places, that small group of people use a retreat center.

[76:01]

And many of the retreat centers are Catholic or Christian retreat center. So we sit in the window with, you know, clothes. Yeah, and it's okay with me. Actually, one year before I went to Minneapolis, I stayed at a Catholic nunnery with my family in Kyoto. Of course, I was not that part of the community. But there was one small, not a house, but a kind of hut, and they allow my family to live there. So very, you know, generous. and I really appreciate their generosity. So my children heard the gospel song every morning. They are very nice people.

[77:02]

So, and sometimes I go to the Catholic Church to give the instruction. They have some sitting group. And they, when they invited me to be at a mass, I attended the mass. No problem. And sometimes, Catholic people came to my temple, and we sat there then together, and they did mass there. And we study Shobo Genzo and the Bible. No problem. Please. You were talking about the visitation of these gods in America, in the West, in the Middle East, in the Middle East. So if you want to talk about these gods, let's say something happens, and we have to keep track of the dialogue about why God is high, why he's so good, why he's so kind, why he's so good, why he's so good, when you feel good,

[78:20]

God. God arrived from debate. I don't know. Please. Can I go to the next question? We don't have much time. Please. Don't get ripped out. Don't get what?

[79:26]

Rest out. Yeah, carry away with joy and bliss. Mm-hmm. Other than Hapser getting fit for real, why don't they ask? Yeah, I think that's the meaning of the story. Yes, please. A moment ago, you talked about your family. And I wondered if the ever-help in terms of your family life was helpful in a way that's similar to the intimate life in Mexico? I think it's similar, very close, or almost same. You know, within family life, you know, we cannot hide anything. So we have to be really exposed. So we need to, you know, forgive each other.

[80:32]

Otherwise, there's no way to live together. Because each of us has, you know, good point and not so good point. So yeah, family life can be like a monastic life. But unfortunately, in modern life, not only in this country, but in America, each person has each individual room. And we don't contact so much as people did before. So even within a family, each part are kind of individual or separated. And in Japan, you know, family didn't eat together so often because they have different schedule. Children need to eat according to their school schedule. And my father and my parents all have their own job works.

[81:36]

So it's kind of sad situation. So family, not only family, but you know, we are so kind of separate, so much separation. Well, okay. Maybe go back to Zendo.

[81:56]

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